{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/x34mk67072/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Jim Turner interview"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Pennesi, Karen (interviewer)","Heward, Kara (interviewer)","Turner, Jim (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2003 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona (spatial)","21st Century (temporal)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes, interview 12"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audiocassettes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS397.012 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Landscape architecture","Landscapes -- Arizona -- Tucson Region -- Pictorial works","Oral history -- Arizona","Urban beautification -- Arizona -- Tucson"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["interview"]}}],"summary":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes, interview 12"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms397-012_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2664.44075,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/243/868/original/azu_ms397-012_side1_a.mp3?1719874486","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2664.44075,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Raymond (Ray) Turner transcript, side 1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, so September","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=2.0,4.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 16, oh, three, 4pm in the Arizona Historical Society, we're talking with Jim Turner and your position here, historian, historian, yep, for this oral history project for the that'll work,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=5.0,32.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yep, okay, so when you arrive in Tucson, we moved to Tucson in 1951 okay? And why? For my asthma. Oh, yeah. Well, I teach Tucson history and Arizona history, and that's a major reason that people come. And they've been coming since the 1870s really. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=33.0,57.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so what is your professional background?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=58.0,61.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I've been a historian for several years now. I got my master's from the U of A in 1999 in US history. But I also I got my bachelor's in secondary education, social studies in 1976 and I did my student teaching at Canyon de la High School in 1976 where I taught Arizona history. So I've really been studying Arizona history for about 25 years. I guess I have also worked as a graphic designer, a magazine editor for water purification magazine, any number of other jobs that really don't relate. But the academic background is is in history for the most part. I was not only a student here in 76 but when I was in high school, after my freshman year in high school in 1963 I attended a summer camp on campus here. It was called the High School Fine Arts summer session, and I still have the yearbooks, and we spent two weeks living in the dorms on campus in 1963 so that's why I can say I go back 40 years on campus, because we stayed on North drive. I think it was the Yuma dorm. You know, they were girls dorms, but they let the boys stay there in the summer, so, and they weren't co ed in those days. So I slept on the sleeping porch and and stayed on campus right there on North drive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=62.0,166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, and so what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=167.0,172.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was your impression of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=173.0,175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: campus? I just loved it. I grew up in Tucson, and that means, you know, running around with just thongs and shorts in the summer, and we spent every day at the pool, and, you know, goat heads and Devil's claws and all of the Tucson hot, dry, sparse, you know, basically dirt. You know, we collected sand rubies when we were kid. I don't know if you guys know about that, but around the base of the ramadas. And in grade school, we knew what ramadas were and but around the base of the foundation of the cement slab, you could dig and find little red garnets, and we had little pill bottles and we would save the red garnish. But I grew up basically, and Horn toed as a pet, and, you know, I had seen Tumbleweed spray painted silver Christmas trees and all of this. And as a kid, we read Dick and Jane, where they said we're going to the woods, you know? And I thought, oh, geez, we don't have any woods here. I felt really like out of the loop for being a desert kid, and then I moved to campus, and it was so lush, and it was just incredible. I decided I was about 13 or 14 that I was eventually going to work on campus, because I just it was an island. I mean, it was literally an island of a park in the middle of town. And of course, I'd been to Mount Lemmon and that sort of thing. But to be actually in Tucson and have that all that greenery was just amazing. And I remember they flooded the lawns. You know, they had those humps, and in the evenings they would flood, you know, and but it was just, and you could hear the morning doves, you know, early in the morning, you could hear the morning doves. And I just thought, this is so peaceful and so pretty, I guess you could say, but it was just serene. And I. Really liked the greenery of North drive in particular. We did kind of, we'd have little folk singing fests around the fountain and that sort of thing. And at that time, there was grass, you know, in the malls and everything. So I know before that there was like a desert cactus garden there. But by the time I got there in 63 there was grass in both places, and as I remember, it was green even in the summer. I don't know if they, they must have watered in the summer. They didn't let it go. But I just thought it was great. I just thought it was wonderful and and it really made me decide that someday I would go to work for the University. Because, you know, it's just, I it didn't make me want to live on campus all the time. You know, I like the desert, but I also liked, you know, the greenery, and it was just really nice to have in the middle of town like that. Yes, I'm still just a little bit off the edge of it, and I still go visit the fish pond and you know, stuff like that, so you know it's close enough. So did you ever plant a tree? Nope, nope, Yep, absolutely. I know somebody who did okay. When I worked at Student Health. That would have been 89 to 93 I worked at the Student Health, which is the corner of cherry and the mall, and behind Student Health, I mean, just west of student health, oh, I guess that's the Liberal Arts Building. Yes, it is. And just north of liberal arts, between liberal arts and the ED building, there's a little grassy area. And my friend, I was dating somebody that worked at Student Health, and she had been dating a professor, and when he died, she planted a tree there, right in that area I've just described, and it wasn't all that long ago. I think she probably planted the tree in 89 or 90 and she put a little brass plate on it with a little chain. You know, it's not, I don't think it's official and I but I don't think anybody, you know, they didn't tear it up or anything. So, nope, I don't, you'd have to ask her, yeah, absolutely, there's a project for but she had a little ceremony. And I think every year, on the anniversary of his death, she would have a little ceremony there. So you know that was, that was a special thing for her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=176.0,461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, so, since your first view of the campus was 63 you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=462.0,466.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: said, Well, you know, we came on campus back when I was eight or 10 for the fireworks at the stadium, they had ground fireworks. You would go and sit in the bleachers. And it wasn't the stadium that we have today. It wasn't as big as the one we have now. But you would sit there and they'd have speeches by this town council and the mayor, and here we are little kids running around in the bleachers, and they would have the, you know, a cowboy that shoots fireworks out of his gun and and then they had the aerial ones as well. And I remember that they would fall after the fireworks, which seemed like really, really late to me, because I was like 10. And then we'd walk back to our car, which is like six blocks away or something, and there would be, like, remains of these aerial fireworks that maybe it hit your car, maybe not, but I am sure that's why they don't do that today, but they did it for many years. I don't remember when they stopped doing that, but I do remember people going and sitting on the Mall in the grass area on the Mall by where the library is now, or where the underground Student Center is watching fireworks from the mall. Okay, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=467.0,544.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: at those times, do they think come to memory about the house","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=545.0,549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of landscape West? Well, no, not really, nope, I didn't really. Earliest impressions would have been when I was 13 or 1463, yeah. 14.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=550.0,565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So over the years, the landscape has changed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=566.0,570.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a bit. So I was wondering if you could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=571.0,575.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: maybe divide it up into like periods of change, okay, from your perspective, yeah. I mean, what they were trying to do, but just sure, perspective of eras of change,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=576.0,588.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: interesting. Well, they did stop flooding, so we didn't have as much grass. So. And no, I don't, you know. I didn't know I was going to be asked that question. So I did not, I did not pay attention to it, and I was, I was away for many years there. So I think probably what happened was, well, like I say it was there 60 in the summer of 6364 65 and then, you know, I went away to school, and I didn't get back on campus, probably, until 75 or 76 and I don't know if they'd stopped it by then or not. And I really, you know, by then, I was going to college, and I wasn't paying a lot of attention to it, so, but, but I'm pretty sure, you know, I know they stopped it, and the grass was just not as green. You know, it just wasn't as as Lush. I do remember fairly recently, them planting the acacia trees in front of social science, not social science. What's on the other it's, it's econ building, I guess. Yeah, it's, it's not North drive. It's just north of Old Main. So it's that little side street that only does, you know, like, a half a block, and then it hits North drive, and it goes, but this is a North South Street, and that building that's right there, I'm pretty sure it's econ, because engineering is across the street. That econ building, right at the north end of it, there's a Secchia trees now, and they weren't there before. I don't think there was anything there before. And I remember thinking, I must be getting really old, because they have planted these trees, and they are big. I remember when there weren't any trees here, and I like them. I mean, they're a little bit too sickly sweet the smell of them, but I know that they planted them because their, you know water, you know their desert plant. So there was a reason for it. And I remember thinking, Oh, this is why they're planting the acequias, because they're paying attention to water use. The thing that really pissed me off is when they toward, they bulldoze the cork tree behind the Student Union. I used to come in the back way. I don't know if I was oh, I was parking over North of the education building, and then I was working in the basement of the Student Union and the back of the north end of the Student Union, because it's all gone now. But you know, there was a swimming pool on the north end, right on the Student Union, and I would go there at lunch and swim. But as you got to the back door of the Student Union, right out back near the swimming pool, was a giant cork tree, and that was planted by the Class of I don't know what Phyllis ball can tell you. I mean, if you you have that book, right the oh, she's wonderful. You guys are. You're so lucky that you're doing this project, and we have somebody like Phyllis ball that can give you all the answers. And I'm being very careful to not, because I know a lot of the history of the plants. And I'm just trying to give you my own impressions, and not what I know but, but I do remember looking at that cork tree and saying, gee, this is really interesting, and then being really disappointed to find out that they didn't save it. You know, when they were doing the Libby told me, Libby Davidson told me they just the construction. People just didn't water it. I mean, they shut off the back of the building while they were, you know, adding to the Student Union, and and, and then they just didn't water it, and it died. Yeah, it was terrible. I wanted on the record. Cork trees are rare, especially in Arizona, and they shouldn't have let it go, and I hope that we're not going to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=589.0,852.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: There was a lot more desert space before they started filling in buildings, and there was a lot more large, just plain parking lot space. I was just thinking about, well, we always back in the in the late 60s, there was an underground newspaper called The Bandersnatch, and they called this the great desert University, GDU. And they were always making Dust Bowl jokes about and parking lot jokes, and they, you know, way out in the sticks and all of this, but there was a parking lot right, right where? Well, it's called the coffler building now, but it was the CBS building for a while. It's, it's just west of the science. Library, and that was all parking lot, you know, that was all just blacktop and cars, and it just seemed like there were parking lots everywhere. And in the early 60s and late 60s, all through the 60s, I guess it wasn't unusual to park in a dirt parking lot. You know, it was just dusty, Clay, Sandy kind of a parking lot. And we just had a lot of those and and now they've either paved them over or they built on top of another one that I can think of was, oh, gosh, I think it was right on Sixth Street near Park. But, you know, there were a lot of them around the campus that were just, and then I think there was another one where those new little townhouses went up on Euclid that, I think that was all parking lot, but we just, and they were just as I say, they were just dirt lots. And so there was a lot of that. I can't think of anything else that really, that I really paid the olive trees I always noticed and I always appreciated,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=853.0,980.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and the orange blossoms that right off of North drive between Maricopa dorm and whatever's next to it, Gila or Yuma, there's a walkway where you have an arbor that's all like orange blossoms, and It's just really neat. And I know they had before we had Spring Fling. We had, like an olive blossom festival or something like that. And again, it was started by these guys that did the Bandersnatch and and then the university administration sort of CO opted this because it was, it was just too bohemian and too out of whack, so that they said, well, we'll make it official, we'll accept it, and then it'll be okay. But it was in the spring, and it was key to, you know, I don't remember now whether they were talking about an orange blossom festival or olive but it was key to the plants. You know, they did say something to that effect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=981.0,1047.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: See what else? Well, I noticed the Rose Garden. I don't remember when I noticed that. I guess that was probably in the 90s when I came back and I was working over in that area. I worked for the chemistry department for a while, and I would go past the rose garden that's out by Forbes. It's on the east side of the Forbes building. It's south of the Old Main Okay, so it's the Ag building. I guess they call it the Ag building now, but there's an amazing and this I just recently noticed too, but I think it's been there forever. The the Forbes building is built in kind of a sea, and it faces east. The open part of the sea faces east, and there's an archway there. And this thing in the spring is covered in cat claw with those yellow blossoms. And it just, I mean, it's incredible how big this plant is. It's just monstrous. And you know, they have these archways where you walk through, but by the time it gets to be springtime, you kind of have to duck under that thing to get through it, because it's just monstrous. It's really big. I do remember in the 80s, I'm jumping around, I know, but I remember in the 80s. Again, I was parking north of the ED building, and I remember the north side of the ED building was covered with ivy, and I thought that was really neat. And I don't know, I think, I don't know if it's still there. I think that, you know, I seem to remember that we lost some of it, or it got cut back, or something like that, and being disappointed that we didn't have as much Ivy there as we used to have. Of course, I know that this is out of one I remember, but I know that the old library, which is now the Arizona State Museum, that was covered with ivy, and then they scraped it all off. I talked to a guy who was a student in the 1930s and when he went to college that didn't have any Ivy, because it was a new building. It was built in the 19. 20s or something, and then he went away to war, and he went to work and away from Tucson, and then he came back as an English professor in the 60s, and there was all this ivy on the walls. And he's just like, Wow, this place has really grown up. And then now he's retired after 30 years of working on campus. And then he came back in the 90s, and the Ivy's gone again. And he said he lived through the whole cycle of no Ivy when it's brand new to covered with ivy, and then no Ivy again. Because I don't remember when they tore it all down, but I'm guessing it was the sometime the late 80s, early 90s. I don't know, facilities management. Probably you got to ask somebody else, because I don't know why they do these things. But it was gorgeous. You know, it's Ivy covered walls, just what you want on a university. And I think that's one thing I like about the U of A as opposed to ASU, among many other things, but we feel like an Eastern college because of the planting. And I think they did that on purpose. I think the founders, you know, with the building design and with the with the plantings, really, and we did this a lot in Tucson, all through, you know, the pioneer days, starting with the turn of the century, we really did not want to be considered a desert pueblo. And they did everything they did. They changed the names of the streets from Spanish names to Main Street. That was Camino Real. They changed it to Main Street. But they just kept and I think the plantings were meant psychologically to say, and we brought a lot of Eastern professors, and I think we were trying to keep them, but the architecture and the planting was meant to make this look like, Okay, you taught at Yale, or you went to Northwestern you know, really, you've got this little microcosm of the same thing here, other than the palm trees. You know, that would be, but I think a lot of the planting might have been for that reason, the grass and just to tame the desert or just make it feel more at home, so that people weren't oppressed by the starkness of the desert, but I think they really made an effort to plant things that aren't indigenous, and I think except for the cactus garden, but for the most part, I mean Ivy covered Walls, you know, they're just trying to do what everybody does back east and and I liked it, you know, I liked that feeling of academia, of, you know, this is a college like any college in Oregon or Northwestern or Yale, or wherever it might be. This is what you think of a college to be ivory covered walls, and we had them. But as I said, somebody along the line said, we're not that. So do you think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=1048.0,1393.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that changing environmental values in the culture had to do with the changing landscape of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=1394.0,1401.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: university? Yeah, I think it's changed. Well, you know, even I have have changed my values on that sort of thing. I mean, I thought it was great in the 60s that we had all of these lawns. And of course, now I understand that we shouldn't have laws that this is great expense of water and and I grew up in the desert. I like the desert, so I wasn't too upset when, you know, I liked it the other way, but I understand and I appreciate this way as well. But so I wound up taking another side of it back in Oh, I guess it was 2000 when I met. The reason I met Libby was because the bucham trees were in danger, the cactus garden was in danger. And she connected with me, because I knew a great deal of the history of the university, and she wanted me to do some research on the history of the cactus cactus garden, which I did, and that resulted in us starting a letter writing campaign and then actually going out there and protesting because they were going to just bulldoze the whole thing. And then we talked about, well, I learned that that grass between the student union and. A the chemistry building, or the Koffler building, that West End of the the west side from Old Main all the way to cherry in the 50s, that was all cactus garden. There was arroyos there. There were bridges over the arroyos. And the old timers that I talked to said there were rattlesnakes in the gulches in there, but it was all like Cholla and and it was hilly, like I say, it was not the flat grass that it was. And then somewhere in the late 50s, early 60s, they decided they wanted green grass in there. And from what I've learned, it was because most of our students are from back east, and they didn't like it. And, you know, they come out to visit, to see if they wanted to stay here, and they look at that and go, Man, I don't want that. So really, the grass was put in, you know, from what I've heard, to to keep the the Eastern students, you know, it was just they'd come out for senior day or whatever. And here's these kids playing Frisbee on the mall, and the dogs are racing across the grass. And they thought that was wonderful. And, and I had also heard, I don't know if I read letters of complaint, I think so in the Wildcat that period of time when they were tearing down the old student union and they blocked off all of that mall that was west of Old Main all the way to about cherry, where the library is, and that was all fenced in, and students were saying, I signed up to come to this university because I came on senior day, and this was a green grassy mall, and I'm going to go through my whole four years and not be able to play on the mall. And I swear there were more than one letter that complained about I signed up to go to school that had grass, and you guys have fenced off that area for the four years that I'm going to be here. So, you know, I don't think it's an environmental value in that sense. I think people are still trying to make something else out of the desert, you know, they I think people come and they have since, like I say, the, well, the Spaniards planted flower. I mean, the Mexicans who came to Tucson in the 1820s planted flowers. I mean, there were no garden flowers here before Mexicans came. So we've always tried to bring some other sort of plants to this area to make it more like back home, to make us feel more comfortable and and I think, as I said, with the planting of the acacia trees, and of course, the palm trees have always been there, there's been some nod toward desert plants and desert watering, but, but I think there, well, North drive isn't much different than it was when I was there in 63 they don't water the grass as much, but there's still grassy areas there. And I walk by and I see kids out there sitting on the grass and sketching or studying or whatever. So you know, it's still there, but just not as lush as it was, and they do let it die in the summer. So I think there's been some attention paid to hey, we live in the desert. Let's be careful with this. But it hasn't been wiped out entirely. I think the campus, especially between the lava rock walls, you know, the original campus, there still seems to be some attention paid to keeping strange plants, or Eastern plants or whatever to make it an unusual setting that's not necessarily a desert setting, whereas, as I was starting to say before, NAU is they've just never done that. They've never done that. You grew up there, and it looks like something that was built in the 50s, in 50s California ranch style, you know, and with what landscaping you'd expect to find, privets and orange trees, and things that you could find in California that you know that actually fit with the desert, with some watering. I mean, it's not as if they're letting the creosote grow or anything like that, but they're, I think at ASU, they pay more attention to that, or they just didn't have the value for the IV and whatever other plants we may have. And I'm not an expert on that different kinds of plants, but I know we have a lot of them that probably shouldn't grow here and and I like that now you mentioned","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=1402.0,1797.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that you know something. With the history","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=1798.0,1800.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of plants. Oh, yeah. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=1801.0,1804.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, there is a, there is a book, and I don't see it here. It's probably at home. I don't know which books I have here and which I have at home, but there is, there was a fellow named, a professor named Robert Forbes, and that's who the Forbes building is named after and there is a book called the century of Robert Forbes and the guy who wrote it, whose name is Collins, I think, or Collingwood, I think it's Collins, but a century of Robert Forbes and Libby knows this book. I can also send you the stats on where to find it. But Robert Forbes moved here to be a professor of chemistry in 1896 or 94 somewhere in there. And he was also hired to work with the, I forget what they called it was a desert farming or arid land studies sort of program. And so he experimented with bringing desert plants to Arizona. And so he's responsible for bringing in the olive trees all along North drive. Those were planted by Robert Forbes, I think, around 1910, but that's in his book. You can find all of that in his book about the olive trees. He also introduced date palms, not only here, but I think he had an experimental farm out by Marana, or maybe even as far north as Florence, Arizona, seeing if we could, you know, for commercial ventures, you know, could we grow date trees? Would this be a good thing to do in Arizona? So, so, so that's kind of some of the early plants that were planted specifically for experimental purposes. And then in the 30s, Homer Schatz was president of the university, and he was a botanist, and he is the one he was working with. Let's get these guys, Godfrey Sykes. And Godfrey Sykes was brought to Arizona around 1910 by the Carnegie Foundation. They set up the world's first desert laboratory to look at desert plants and that sort of thing. And the desert laboratory was up on tua mock Hill, right next to and actually it's still there. The buildings are still again, they're made out of lava rock. And so Godfrey Sykes came to Arizona, and he also explored Baja, California, and that's where he first viewed the bucham trees. And I've got a whole history of this that I've written up about the but he first saw them, and he's the one that named them bucham trees, because that's a that's a creature from Lewis Carroll's poem The Hunting of the Snark and abujam is some ant creature that lives on a far off land, arid desert and so on and so forth. That's sort of upside down or whatever. But if you read what Carol says, and then you look at a Bucha tree, you can see why the first time he saw one Godfrey psych says, My God, it's a Bucha. And it stuck. And everybody said it from then on. But getting back to, oh, the President that I just the university president and slaughter. Did I say Sonic or No, it's not slanaker. What shots, Homer shots, Homer shots. In 1929 got together with Godfrey Sykes, and they brought those bucham trees and planted them. And we have pictures, I think it's in special collections of those in 1931 on the mall, where they are now. So that was that, was that. But in Phyllis ball's book, you can read about the cactus garden was originally on the east side, where the fountain is now, and and then, oh, I think around the teens, well, they put the fountain, is a world war one Memorial Fountain. So they built that fountain in 1919, and they moved to cactus garden, to the west side of Old Main and it took up, as I said, it took up all of them all pretty much all the way to Cherry and and they just, but they brought in rare cacti, and they were, you know, there are old slides when the cactus garden was, old pictures when the cactus garden was on the on the west side, where they have these. Huge Choya with two students sitting underneath the Cholla. It's so big. So these were, and I can't remember the professor's name, and I was president. His name was Guthrie, I think, but that's in Phyllis ball's book, and he was really big on bringing in these rare cactus and building this garden. So as early as the 1890s there were botanists who were taking an interest in planting things on campus. But I think when shots came in, and there's a fellow over at the herbarium, which is in the basement of the shots building, and Libby knows Phil Jenkins is his name, and there are file cabinets down there that have all of shots, photographs from the 30s. And he traveled to Africa, and he traveled all over the world and took photographs of geology and of plants, and all of these are sitting in these file cabinets in the basement of the child's building. But at that time, he started bringing plants from all over the world, and when I worked in the Chemistry Building, I had this tree outside my window that had these beautiful orange blossoms on them. And I asked my friend at the herbarium actually called me up one day. He said, can you see that tree from your window? I said, I can't see anything but that tree from my window, because that particular year it blossomed, and these orange blossoms everywhere. But he said that that that space behind the chemistry building, right behind that was some old greenhouses, and he said that was called Magic alley, because they brought strange plants from Africa and from everywhere else, and planted them behind the chemistry building there. And this was like a huge and I know the name of it. I have it on my website of this tree, but he said that. And I guess there's somebody else named Lee Jones who knows all about these plants that that Libby probably knows more about Lee Jones, and I think they've interviewed him already, but,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868#t=1805.0,2237.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130445/file/243868/transcript/68352/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: oh, to see who I was. Oh, it's just a personal website. I'll be done. I don't have it. I don't have it filed, I guess, in Google or anywhere else, but I've got your email address, so I'll send you that, yeah, because it has great photos of this tree and wonderful photos, maybe I can well see. I don't even know if I can find it. Now, they've moved me around to so many computers that I won't interrupt the interview for that but, but I will send you the website, and we got some great pictures of that tree, and it it does say what kind of a tree it is, so you'll be able to see what it was. But I really liked working in that office in old chemistry because I had that tree outside the window, and it was an old enough building that you could open the windows and the same year. And of course, the tree with the orange blossoms attracted hummingbirds like crazy. So there I am, this wonderful office where in the springtime, you can open the window and you see the hummingbirds. And the same year, a dove, dove built its nest out there. So I watched this dove build the nest, and it was just I told I had a supervisor that had just moved to Tucson from Las Vegas, where she had worked for department stores and for casinos, and first time she'd ever worked for university. And I said, I really like working here, because it's like working in a park, and I still feel that way. You know, it still has that atmosphere to me. They really, even though, like I say, they're, they're planting acacias now, instead of greener things, and they may have taken the ivy away and well and the grass, you know, there's less grassy area with the now, with the the freshman center, or whatever that underground thing is, but, but I still feel like it's park, you know, I still think it's, it's, you're working in a park, and you're also working in sort of a village, you know, because you, you know a lot of People, although you don't see them all the time. I worked there from Oh 86 to 93 and then 96 to 2000 so about 14 years on and off. And so anytime I go back, I see a lot of people I know. But you know, we used to have. Lunch around Old Main there, or just sit on the grass in different places around but I think a lot of employees utilize that, or they go for walks, any number of things like that. But I just think, you know, they've, they've really, from the beginning, made that thing into, you know, comfortable environment for people. And you can tell because the benches are usually taken up. You know, it's really hard to if you want to eat on a nice day, if you want to eat somewhere, forget it, because people have used up all the benches. But, but I do, you know. And the other thing is, I don't know when I discovered the fish pond, but just nobody knows about this fish pond. I talked to people that have worked on campus for 18 years, and they say, What fish pot? And I did a little, a little bit of research on it, and found out that, you know, North drive used to have three Victorian houses, and you can see them in Phyllis Paul's book, and that was the President's House, was at the very end, and that was in his backyard in the 1920s so the fishpond goes back that far, but it's really great for meditation. I like to go back there and sit and just, you know, it takes time out from everything. And as I say, the the only people that are there. Sometimes there's some art students there, but there's very few people that know it's there. And, you know, I just like to count the turtles. And there have been times where there were some Oscars in there, some student probably was leaving town, so they dumped these huge, I mean, they were like eight inch Oscars in a fish pond. But the strangest thing, I was going home for work one day, and I worked in chemistry, but I would walk up north drive, and I parked over in this neighborhood west of park, and I see this art student. I know she's an art student because she's got a big portfolio, and she's standing looking at the fish pond, and everybody else is just moving by. And I stopped and looked at where she was looking, and there's this blue heron standing right at the edge of the fish pond. How he found this thing, I don't know. I mean, that's probably their job. You know, they probably just fly over things, and they can sense it or something. But we stood there motionless for it felt like five minutes, and then he took off. But he was looking intently in that fish pond to see what his odds were, whether he could get any of those fish. But it was just amazing, because, you know, I know they fly over to near Wilcox, you know, and there are herons in different places, but that was the first and only time I ever saw one on campus. And I have seen an owl too. I saw owl perched on the second floor balcony Maricopa dorm over there on North drive, and it was just sitting straight up like you see him, the phony ones. But I asked my I asked my friend Phil Jenkins, and he said, Oh yeah, there's a whole number of feral cats and squirrels and owls and everything, you know? And he says, yeah, there are a number that actually live only in this one little ecosystem and but, you know, it's, it's the sort of things where, if you not paying attention, and that's only like evenings in the summer or early mornings when there's no kids around, you know, when there's a lot of students, these things just go but I really think they own the campus 50% of the time, you know, and we just have no idea that there's this whole other life going on. And, like I say, squirrels, all of the greenery and and all that stuff supports it where, you know, it just wouldn't anywhere else In town. So, so I think that's neat. 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