{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/ww76t0j330/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Sheila Slaughter PhD., University of Arizona Professor of Higher Education"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona Alumni Forum videocassettes, MS 646, box 5, tape 2"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Slaughter, Sheila (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["4/5/92"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Guest - Sheila Slaughter, PhD., University of Arizona Professor of Higher Education."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["U-matic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS646.060 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona Alumni Forum videocassettes (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Interviews"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Guest - Sheila Slaughter, PhD., University of Arizona Professor of Higher Education."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/159/987/small/azu_ms646-060_a.mp4_1653328118.jpg?1653328119","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms646-060_a.mp4"]},"duration":1926.792,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/159/987/small/azu_ms646-060_a.mp4_1653328118.jpg?1653328119","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/159/987/original/azu_ms646-060_a.mp4?1653328109","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1926.792,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["ms646-060 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Arizona alumni forum brought to you by the 145,000 members of the Arizona Alumni Association and this station","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=42.0,53.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: either Welcome to Arizona alumni forum. Good to have you with us today. I'm Jay Rocklin here, I'm the editor of the University of Arizona's alumni magazine. And this program is brought to you by the alumni Alumni Association of the U of A in this station. Glad you're here. Our guest today is somebody is going to talk to us about the University of Arizona, all of Arizona University and the budget cuts you've been hearing about in the news every single day. The interesting thing is that this this isn't a new thing to errors, or to the country, it is new to Arizona. My guest today has followed this for the last 10 years. It's Professor Sheila slaughter of the University of Arizona's Department of Higher Education. Welcome, good to have you with us. Thank you, thanks for taking time out of your day. Well, as I mentioned, university budgets have been in the news just about every single day for the last Gosh, what six weeks now, really, since the legislative season has started, we've been talking about budget cuts overall, as a faculty member, first of all, not not even from the point of view of your discipline. Can you give us some feel for the scope of the cuts? Is this a big deal that's happening now? Or is it is it really headlines?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=54.0,111.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Part of it will depend on what the kind of cut is that we actually take, whether it's the six, the nine or the 12%. But I think even a 6% is really quite substantial given that we've had made your decisions for the past several years, so that cumulatively, we're getting to the point where there's not a lot, a lot left to cut. And in the end, we really will have to probably make some serious cuts and programmatic cuts. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=112.0,139.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the word that we're seeing crop up every once in a while now is the word retrenchment. A lot of people haven't heard that word before. But we're it's coming up more and more and more. Tell us what that word means. How are people using it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=140.0,151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, it's being used to overall it's used to mean cutting of programs is really what retrenchment means that you're going to in order to save money, the largest fixed cost of any kind of university or or higher ed institution is faculty. And they usually account for about 90% of the non capital expenditures. And the only way you really save a lot of money is to, to cut them and permanently have to save a lot of money. And so to retrench, means to cut back certain programs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=152.0,191.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And because I think what people might be asking them in their minds as citizens watching this all happen, given that definition, are we really retrenching? Or are we just slowing down the rate of growth that we've enjoyed for the last 10 years?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=192.0,204.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think it's not yet clear. In Arizona what what will happen, sort of the pattern historically at other institutions, has been that you cut everything but faculty, unless there's some really pretty obvious candidate for closure for one reason or another, which is not usually the case. But occasionally, this program of very low quality that it's everyone will agree to you you can cut that. But most most places, elsewise, you cut much more heavily in support services that then has happened here. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=205.0,243.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you have a heavy cut faculty yet, or faculty cuts of actual bodies, to your knowledge, realize that you're not an administrator","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=244.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, not as part of this current wave or even the media recisions that there have been programs that have been eliminated, but it's due to something like really complete lack of students or something like that, and they're very few. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=250.0,264.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: As I said, the introduction to the program, the kinds of things we're talking about really aren't new this. We've been through this before as a nation in the northeast and you've studied it. Give us some feel for what happened in the early 80s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=265.0,276.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: In the early 80s chosen to study well, probably the first let me go back even a little further than that. Okay. The first time that there was really, Mark retrenchment was in the mid 70s. And probably the two most dramatic retrenchments, in in US higher education since the depression Were the Qd system that City College of New York system in might be a year or so off, but about 1976 and then the SUNY system, the State University of New York system, and that was part of the larger fiscal crisis that New York City and the New York State experienced. And I think 1000 people were retrenched in by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=277.0,324.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: retrench two man","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=325.0,325.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: cut God, okay, and the CUNY system and they were all junior faculty. Alright. So then in the SUNY system, there was only like maybe 123 people who were cut. But the SUNY system contrary to the CUNY system, did not cut by seniority, it can selectively okay. And up till that point, it looks like institutions might follow this sort of pattern that CUNY did where you would cut First, the most junior people and just cut blanketly and try to preserve your tenured people, no matter what happened in sort of a labor union model, because I mean, both systems were unionized, but that that the union in the CUNY system was was probably more entrenched, and more active in this SUNY system, they cut as well. Now, I don't know what happened quite. They cut selectively, so that was different and not as much. And when they cut, they tried to cut whole programs. So that was the rationale that would be week programs that they would cut week was defined in several ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=326.0,395.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I need to ask you a couple more questions about that and related back here, but we need to break right now for just a moment and we hope you'll stay with us on Arizona alumni forum. We'll be right back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=396.0,504.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thanks for staying with us in Arizona alumni forum, Jay Rocklin here speaking with Professor Sheila slaughter of the University of Arizona's Department of Higher Education, Professor slagter, when we left just a moment ago, you were describing the cutbacks at the State University of New York system and City University of New York system. There's there's a whole lot of people here in Arizona right now, that would look at what you said and said, Good, I hope that happens here. The universities need that cut. I bet they come back stronger for it. Did those two schools, in hindsight Now come back stronger for having experienced that retrenchment? 10 years ago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=505.0,540.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm not sure what you mean by strong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=541.0,543.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Good question. I guess what I mean, is serving the people, they intended to serve more effectively, given the taxpayers more bang for their buck, whatever that means. And getting rid of what, you know, whatever people are talking about by administrative fat, you pick your term.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=544.0,560.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I want to say yes, and no, I mean, it's an interesting question that, as far as I can see, no one has looked at in much detail, empirically, which is, it's a question you could look at it empirically, and people really haven't. Okay. So. So that in itself is interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=561.0,579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I mean, let's look closely my question practical. Did they admit fewer students? Did fewer students graduate? Did the rankings go down?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=580.0,587.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Let me let me tell. That's, that's good. Okay. So what happened was I think New York did go down. In the rankings, okay, as a matter of fact, because I did a study about that time that compared VPI, and Su, which was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=588.0,606.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: VPI, being Virginia Polytechnic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=607.0,608.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Institute and State University, more commonly known as Virginia Tech, which was a relatively unknown Southern school that because there were all these losses in the North East was able to recruit many faculty members. And I think, at least for a period in the late 70s, to the early 80s, and I think I think even still knew, managed to move ahead of a place like Buffalo, which 10 years early, it would have been absolutely unthinkable. So I think that the primary rating I'm using there is is the department the federal funding for for research grants that that that's the primary indicator I'm using in that case, in terms of the ratings of car by colleagues, which is another set of writings. The what happened was VPI went up. But buffalo didn't go down. And that's sort of what what happens. Usually in those ratings, there's not a lot of downward mobility. And what you get is people coming up instead, so they did change in the ratings. Okay. Faculty had to teach more students,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=609.0,678.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: which isn't necessarily bad,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=679.0,679.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: which isn't necessarily bad. Faculty wrote more grants, but got less money, which could be considered bad. And overall, what happened was, within two or three years, they had hired back as many faculty as they had. And this is another SUNY system, I'm talking about net net CUNY, because I lose track of what happened there. But since I was at Buffalo, sure, I'm aware of that. Within two or three years, they had hired back, sort of all the people they had, not the same people, but the people to replace, maybe not even the exact positions, but hired that many more faculty. And they had hired to the minute a more junior level. Now that can be good. And it can be bad. I mean, you get lower price people, but they may not be able to get the sort of grants and do the reputation building that you more senior people do. So yeah, I guess I guess quantitatively they did. You know, if you're just comparing these two schools, which was what I was, you're","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=680.0,740.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: not really describing a tragic situation, necessarily, from the taxpayers point of view or the citizen of New York's point of view. I expected that you would?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=741.0,749.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, no, I don't, I don't think you are. But But what you are experiencing in New York now is in order to maintain education at the level that it to which taxpayers are perhaps accustomed. tuitions have gone up drastically. And it has gone up markedly over the last 10 or 15 years. And this is something that's actually happened since I've left. So it's going on sort of like right now. And I forget exactly how much it has gone up. But it's gone up substantially. In Massachusetts, it's even more so as far as I can understand. Massachusetts has taken like, if you edit everything all together, it's taken like 25% cut in the past five years. Now the taxpayer say may say, Well, this is really terrific. I mean, I'm getting cheaper education, paying much less for education, the community colleges, so charging $4,000 a year in tuition, I mean that that's pretty amazing, since those are virtually free most other places, and the rate is even higher at other places. So there is a cost in California, they've just raised tuition by 40% for in State students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=750.0,828.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Somebody is gonna pay and we're really talking about shifting Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=829.0,830.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And this is as they're cutting people this, this is happening. So so the shifting the burden, the burden is being shifted to taxpayers. This isn't nearly as I can see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=831.0,844.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what's already time to break again, why another six minutes has gone by and when we come back, we'll talk about who's being hurt by these shifts if they take place and also about how people should start listening to the language that's going to be used about the debate as it happens. So we hope you'll stay with us for those discussions. We'll be back in just about a minute and a half here on Arizona alumni forum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=845.0,971.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You're listening to Arizona alumni forum brought to you by the University of Arizona's Alumni Association in this station, Jay Rocklin here speaking with Professor Sheila slaughter of the University of Arizona, that just started we were talking about budget cutbacks. retransmit, especially the example used was in, in Buffalo, and the SUNY system. You were describing how well, state appropriations went down, tuitions went up. That implies to me that maybe some folks didn't get to go to school, a lot of people had to pay more money that they weren't prepared to kids had to take out more loans and a whole host of things. how might that scenario manifest itself in Arizona? just hypothetically, if it comes to that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=972.0,1011.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay. Well, if if you looked at that, again, that the data for this sort of thing is really not real good. empirical data is not real strong, but I did a study with what national data was available. And it had limitations as a data source. But sort of what happened was when you looked at the programs that did get cut over this is over the period 1980 1990, the fields in which they tended to get cut, were those fields that couldn't position themselves next to the high payback sectors of the economy. And fields that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1012.0,1051.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I've made back in terms of dollars, Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1052.0,1052.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: hi back in terms of dollars, and fields, that somehow we're not high prestige fields, of course, those tend to be the same fields. And sort of overall, the the fields that were cut, were, as a friend of mine says, sort of vulgarly our fields having to do anything with women, children and old people. And now this is not to say that women children and old people were the is largely men who are the faculty in those all those fields still, but sort of a primary example right now is library schools. So they've just caught maybe six library schools have been cut nationally, and one of them ones was Columbia library school, so and that that may move someplace else. But Columbia, it's not going to be at anymore. And that was the oldest library school in the country, it was very prestigious, it had a fair number of faculty. And the most interesting thing is it had was regarded as a strong program that wasn't necessarily a weak program. And it had plenty of students. And when the students got out, they could get jobs. So the problem was, and I think people were actually cute. People said this at Columbia was that they didn't get high prestige jobs with lots of money so that they could give to Columbia, a cynical view, but but, you know, there may be some truth in it. And so I mean, like, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that weak programs get cut. But we tend to define, in many instances are such socially construct weak programs, as programs that don't bring in lots of money to their, to their graduates. So colleges of education have tended to be cut and you say, Oh, well, education is really terrible, but their jobs in education, their students who are waiting to get it, people have have raised the, the the requirements, so they're getting better students than they ever did before. And yet, just now in Oregon, they've been a primary education schools have been a primary target. And they also do in the end, sort of decent middle range paying jobs for people when they get out. I mean, it's not that these people are, you know, sitting around, twiddling their thumbs being unable to be employed. And they are, you know, would be solid contributors to the community but they're not going to perhaps contribute Big Bucks back To the universities,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1053.0,1200.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: let's come back to Arizona. In your view, I mean, realizing that there isn't empirical data right now, who might be hurt by the cuts that we may experience? Should we reach the six or 9% cut level?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1201.0,1212.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think that what is most likely to happen is the same thing I've just said that those people who are not positioned near the high income, end of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1213.0,1225.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: market, you're looking at it from from an employer's point of view. Now, how about from a citizens point of view the people out there who will intend either go to school want to go to school and selves or center children to school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1226.0,1235.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, you know, if we get the College of Education, for example, which is always a prime target, there'd be a lot of people who would have to move either to you know, Phoenix to send their kids to school or to flag or, or else if those programs didn't expand, which, which then becomes problematic, how do you expand them in a time of cutback just wouldn't get jobs? Okay, because you wouldn't would train them in those areas. It would be the same thing if we followed that sort of thing, trend and did library school people. And I guess, I guess, if the cuts go through, another thing I see is happening. Even if you save all these programs, people say we want these sort of middle level programs to continue. Even if we do that, it's still gonna cost more for people. And there is a difference in return the jobs that people get, but I think it's absolute madness for a state not to really want to have these mid level incomes, because otherwise, you're just gonna keep doing sort of the growing disparity between bottom level jobs and top level jobs that's been characteristic of the last decade. I mean, I would think universities will want to contribute to generating a solid tax payer basis of sort of mid level jobs where you would have, you know, a strong state economy and, and those are the jobs that are going to become harder for people to get into, if the costs go up really a lot. I don't know how much is it? How much students are prepared to pay to mortgage their futures,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1236.0,1336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it's time to break again. And we'll come back in just a moment to talk about how to watch the debate. I hope you stick around to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1337.0,1449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: this is our final segment of Arizona alumni forum. We're glad you stayed with us on talking with Professor Sheila slaughter. She's from the University of Arizona's Department of Higher Education. That's the department that studies colleges and universities around the country and sort of talks about issues. An issue I want to turn to those is the issue of how people should watch the debate. We're going to be hearing over the next couple of months more and more about this in the news, the university is going to be announcing potential layoffs, actual layoffs, it's going to be in the Appropriations Committee. And there's gonna be lots of alarm sounded like like the band last year. We've heard about flandreau planetarium this year. Give us some tips from an academic or scholarly point of view. keywords like how should we look at people how people are framing the debate, just to give us let us step back a little bit and look","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1450.0,1498.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: okay. But I think I think the band and flandreau planetarium are like ones that are going to drive media outcry. I mean, they're sort of symbols associated with with the university and with the one with the football games and all of that, and the other one with their premier astronomy program, and they're designed to have people say, No, no, you can't do that sort of thing. And I think there will be others like that. I think one of the things you really need to look for is when they say, weak programs, or lack of centrality, which, which are words that are used in these debates, if your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1499.0,1540.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: lack of centrality is going to be a good one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1541.0,1542.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay. And that means, well, it means various things, but but it's supposed to be central to the institutional mission, the power with missions in places like this is the frame so broadly, that anything fits into the mission virtually. So then this becomes highly politicized as to what lack of centrality means. So I think people are watching really have to ask themselves central to what I mean, can you say, for example, that parts of the undergraduate liberal arts curriculum are not central to education. That's, that's a very difficult argument to make, unless you're willing to go for a really almost totally vocational definition of of higher education, but people are indeed already talking about cutting part of the liberal arts program, even though that that program bears the burden of undergraduate teaching. So that's to me very interesting that somehow this is not Central. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1543.0,1609.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the university states, I guess, all three universities, do they they claim that they speak of their mission in terms of teaching, research and service that the tripartite mission of the University of Arizona, do you see any debates forming around prioritizing those three elements?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1610.0,1629.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think I think I think there are debates around that. But I think they are more external to the university committee. And that they're the sort of debates that happen, whenever there's crises or anger or displeasure with the university. Certainly they have, as long as I've been involved with higher education, not necessarily economic crisis, either, you know, students are protesting and stuff, then you say, why aren't faculty in the classrooms teaching and, and the like. And so teaching is what many people in the state or state legislators, let me let me be more precise about that seem to think is a very important aspect of, of the university mission, where as faculty here, and perhaps at ASU, as well see, see research as equally important and argue that the teaching and research are central to feeding each other. And faculty would probably argue that research is central to the service mission, in that research contributes very heavily to economic development of particular areas by introduction of new technologies, and, and this sort of thing, but it's more difficult to make people see those sorts of things. So I would expect to see teaching and research be polarized. And the more interesting question of service, which would bring back return to the population of the state tends not to be raised in very concrete terms. And again, if you were going to do service sort of related to economic development, what kind would you want to do? What kind would you push, and people really haven't formulated this again, but I think what we really need is sort of not jobs as a blanket sort of thing, although jobs is certainly what people want. But jobs in the like 30 to $60,000 range, I mean, below those, they're not going to do as much as one would like for the tax base. And above that there are very many jobs, that's really what we're lacking. And that's the way I think the discussion should be formulated, it tends not to being occurring that way. Instead, it falls into those polarizations teaching versus research. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1630.0,1761.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: while the discussion get tougher and meaner, what do you think will sort of come together and try to solve problems? or How did happen back in Buffalo?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1762.0,1769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, in Buffalo, what usually happens in the cases that I've looked at is that there's a long period where everybody sort of goes around and around and doesn't do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1770.0,1782.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Like we're out of time. I'm sorry to interrupt you,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1783.0,1784.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and then a crash. Okay. Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1785.0,1786.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thank you for joining us on over here. And thanks for joining us on the Arizona alumni forum. Hope to see you next month right here on Channel Nine and channel three.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987#t=1787.0,1789.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73622/file/159987/transcript/37899/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/037/899/original/azu_ms646-060_a.vtt?1653328171","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/037/899/original/azu_ms646-060_a.vtt?1653328171"}]}]}]}