{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/wd3pv6db5j/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Terry Bracy"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 1, tape 45"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Bracy, Terry (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2000-05-17"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Terry Bracy conducted by Julie Ferdon. Bracy was the chair of the Udall Foundation at the time of the interview. Bracy had an internship in Congress during graduate school and worked with Morris Udall."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.004 (uid)","MS396.005 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Terry Bracy conducted by Julie Ferdon. Bracy was the chair of the Udall Foundation at the time of the interview. Bracy had an internship in Congress during graduate school and worked with Morris Udall."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - azu_ms396-004_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2534.52,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/273/original/azu_ms396-004_side1_a.mp3?1744847757","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2534.52,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: All right, this is tape number 45 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good afternoon. It's Wednesday, May 17 year, 2000 and we're at the DoubleTree Hotel in Tucson, Arizona, by the reed Park. My name is Julie ferdow, and I'd like to welcome Terry Bracey, chair of the Udall Foundation, to be here to another in a series of this oral history project. Terry, thanks for coming. Let's start at the beginning. Where and when were you born? Me,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=3.0,30.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yes, born. I was born in St Louis, Missouri, December 17, 1942, I was a war baby, and grew up in that generation, lived in St Louis, went to the parochial schools and the Jesuit High School. I was lucky enough to go there because, mostly because I was an athlete, and then the Jesuit College, St Louis University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=31.0,59.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you have any intent of going into the ministry? Or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=60.0,65.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that's the last thing I had in mind. My intention was to get out of there after a lot of years, it was a great place to grow up, but I didn't feel that St Louis held many opportunities for me, and I was interested in seeing a wide, wider world. And I came from a family, however, that didn't have any financial resources to speak of. They were smart people and well educated, but we were without money for a lot of reasons, and so I had to stay at home for college and work at the same time. So I was sort of a city college kid. That was my orientation in college, and then one day, I decided to take a fellowship at the furthest place. I got an offer, and that was the University of Arizona,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=66.0,120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and in the you applied for a fellowship","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=121.0,122.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there, I did. I applied. I had a professor who helped me at St Louis U and I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I thought graduate school, and I wouldn't want to go to law school, so I thought I'd probably be an academic. And I like government. I like writing. I was a I was good writer, but I was also very interested in politics, mostly because I'd become swept up by John Kennedy. I was part of that, and that really,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=123.0,148.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: were you active in that campaign? No, I was really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=149.0,154.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: almost awakened by that campaign to politics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=155.0,158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What year did you graduate from college 1964 Okay, so that was right during that time. Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=159.0,165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We had had, as a family, some political activity, but it wasn't the first thing on my mind. I was much more interested in girls in baseball.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=166.0,177.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Why Arizona?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=178.0,180.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'd never been there. That was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=181.0,182.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the sole reason, huh? It was, well, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=183.0,184.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: got an offer from the University of Missouri and one from the University of Illinois, and I think one from Boston College and one, I think, from the University of Michigan, I don't know. I put them all down and took out an atlas and looked at a math for the country and took the furthest one away. That was first calculus. But then I was sort of fascinated with the idea of the West. I just that's something I didn't I'd been east, although not overseas. I'd been to New York, had been to Washington, I'd been to had relatives in the east and I traveled all through the Midwest. Knew that I grew up there,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=185.0,224.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so it was time to sample the look at the West. So when did you arrive in Tucson? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=225.0,231.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: arrived on August day, on a globe master, a twall master. I think it was five stops from St Louis to Tucson, and arrived and sort of late in the evening, one evening, to a little, tiny terminal that I'd something like I'd never seen before. It was it looked like more a shack than a terminal. And I was, you know, there were a few cabs, but not much and, and it was just a different place. Was that 6510 or I was 6464 Okay, and I was a graduate student in a political science department, which, unlike many of Arizona's departments in that era, their political science department held some renowned in the field. Current shields had been, I think, the head of the department at Yale Yes. But for reasons, I think of health, came out to Arizona and brought some very talented and noted academics with them, and recruited some more so in that department where Charles o Jones, who has now become probably thought of as one of the leading historians on Congress, living on to many other universities, but Charles old Jones, Conrad Joyner, Peter Thoma cliff, Lytle in international relations, people who were substantial figures in their areas and So. And of course, there was shields, who was the ultimate Thomistic Didac didactic kind of guy, and, and, but I did well. I was used to this treatment. I'd had a lot of Jesuits, and so I sort of excelled in my freshman class. And shields called me in one day in the beginning of the second semester. I think I'd rank first in my class in the first semester, or close to it, whatever. And he said, Well, he said, you know, we have a fellow here. Was one of the older guys that may have been John Strayer, but anyway, I can't remember, but one of the older guys had won a very prestigious fellowship called the American Political Science Association, fellowship, of which there were maybe 20, given nationally, split between Top political scientists and very top level up and coming executive service people who would go to the Congress and have a chance to spend time doing real work, like writing speeches and so on, and in congressional offices, and they usually wear the pick of the litter. You know, you got Gerald Ford, who was Minority Leader, or, you know, maybe Adam Clayton Paul, who was the chairman of the Education Committee, or maybe you were in maude's office, who was thought of as one of the brightest, anyway, long story short, the university was looking for somebody who wouldn't embarrass him and who could travel quickly. And that's how I got to Washington.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=232.0,451.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So had they? Had they picked someone before who wasn't able to make it? He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=452.0,456.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wasn't able to make it because his wife developed one of those kinds of pregnancies before she had to spend weeks in the bed, in bed, and he didn't leave her. And so I was his replacement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=457.0,471.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Had you heard of moe Utah before that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=472.0,475.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Heard of, is about it? Heard of, I knew, of course, I, you know, heard of but I really knew who Stuart Udall was, because he was in Kennedy's cabinet and and, you know, became quite prominent. And so I knew Udall,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=476.0,495.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: but so at that point, when you were going back for the internship. He was basically Stuart's brother. Yeah, he was Stewart brother. So this was after the first semester of your first year in graduate school, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=496.0,513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So this was in January of 1965","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=514.0,518.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and when did you go back to Washington?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=519.0,521.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: At the I went back and went back to Washington","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=522.0,526.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right for the internship. I assumed January, okay, okay, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=527.0,529.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they told me in December, and I showed up January. It was a semester. It was, yeah, I was there for a semester, basically. And I went after doing that, went back to graduate school, finished my master's degree,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=530.0,542.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: on the internship. When you arrived in Washington, do you have memories of the first time you met Mo?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=543.0,553.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I you know one thing I remember is and I told this story at his service in Washington, but I remember sort of as a starry eyed kid now very excited at this whole prospect. And can't imagine how I got here. You know, I was in St Louis six months ago. Then I'm in Tucson, and I think I never want to leave there. You know, I've died and gone to heaven, and now I'm in Washington, walking in the doors of the cannon House office going, and I remember locating his office and walking in there and and looking at it. And as most people I. Are many people would maybe just, maybe just me, but I was naturally sort of looking around to see where I might fit in this. And the offices were then very small. You know, a congressman had a very small staff. Had really two executive level appointments and perhaps three secretarial appointments. And the offices where the congressman's office was one office, and the there was a narrow breezeway, in some cases, which would include a personal secretary, and then there was another office which had everybody else. And so I remember walking in the office, and there is Louise Greenfield at one desk, and Dick Olson at another, and Roger Lewis at another. And really, a couple of people I don't remember who were then secretaries. I thought, Where do I fit in this? There's no room, and I was stunned to find that where my desk was was inside Moe's office, and behind a large bookcase there was a little cubby hole in the back of the office with a telephone, and that was mine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=554.0,683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What a great opportunity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=684.0,685.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, from that position, I could hear every single conversation the man was having, and after about three or four days, I it was making me very uncomfortable. And I said, Well, Mr. Udall, I said, I said, I'm a little uncomfortable back there. I said, I can hear every conversation that you have, and I can't help myself. He said, Well, he said, he said, Look, ignore the personal stuff. Just learn from the rest. Yeah, I thought of myself, ignore the personal stuff that he could even make such a statement, you know, as a funny thing that happened, I learned to ignore his personal conversations, but perk up when he was talking to the speaker or to his brother about an issue or plotting strategy, or talking to David Broder or whatever, and he knew I was there and listening, and wanted me there. And I wasn't the only intern who got this treatment. He He really, as you know, he really enjoyed young people, and he particularly enjoyed talented young people, and he turned them loose. And so I got to write some statements for the Congressional Record, and I got to and and, and during the course of that internship, Mo took me everywhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=686.0,777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: For example, I was there in the old rules committee room when Wilbur will, Wilbur Mills, being treated as a traitor to the south, presented the Medicare program to judge Smith,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=778.0,799.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The old Baron of the rules committee who used to clog legislation and protect the South. And there at one end of the table was old judge Smith, kind of snarling, with a spittoon at his side with a cigar about a foot long, fully burning,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=800.0,817.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: listening to Mills Tip O'Neill next to him, and on down the list, down the road, and Wilbur Mills sitting at the end or other end of the table, straight, ramrod straight,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=818.0,834.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: for 45 minutes to an hour, addressing the minute details of the Medicare program without a note. And I was sitting there with Mo, who was there to present a democratic study group amendment, so he was next in line after Mills, and so on his way over there, he said, Hey, Terry, come here. You should see this. And there, I sat there and witnessed this history. I saw the south cracking apart in front of me in the House of Representatives, and whether was to take me over to the White House or to the have me in committee, take me to the floor for a vote. He did all of those things, and he created an experience that was indelible, and one which we are now repeating in the foundation with our Native American. American interns, that's right, and it's having the same results these it's revolutionizing their lives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=835.0,906.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So Mo is eye opening experience to go back to Washington. Oh, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=907.0,910.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there's, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing like it in terms of your education. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=911.0,915.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, had mo had interns before you, I'll come up. This","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=916.0,918.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: would be over about five I believe I'm there may have been one. He'd","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=919.0,925.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: only been in Congress the two terms, or something. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=926.0,932.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Okay, now, Julie, I don't know that question. There may have been one. I was clearly, if I wasn't the first, I was in the first I was in the first group of Udall intern. And I was there at a time when he lost his family. Was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=933.0,948.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: just going to ask you about that you were there during","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=949.0,952.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was there. During that time I was there. I was there, first of all in and as I said, the first of 95 for basically that semester, and I got to know Pat and some of the family, some of the kids. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=953.0,971.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were your impressions of Pat?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=972.0,975.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, she was charming to me. She was very pretty and perky and charming. She was sort of dismissive of the whole Congressman thing, but I never really got to know her. I never really got to know her. I mean, I have known Pat for a long time, but I don't really know her. But she she she liked me. We sort of hit it off. And I did some when they went out of town. One time, actually, when they went out of town, one time, Mo lent me his car. I had his car in Washington now, popping around Washington in Mo's Volkswagen, which is great. I had a few dates, and they were in the Bahamas and had the congressional license plate. The price was, I had to pick him up. That was the trade off. I had to pick him up, which was a easy and delightful trade off to make. It's we clicked. And I don't know we clicked in part, because he lost his kids right after that, and then I came back, he asked me to come back, or I went back to work for him full time. At that time, the kids, the kids moved back to Tucson. Oh, to Tucson. Okay with Pat and it was a very unhappy and how did angry and go","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=976.0,1057.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: take that? Was this totally out of the blue? Painfully, was it totally out of the blue to him, or something he didn't anticipated? Or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1058.0,1065.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, I don't think it was totally out of the blue. I think he I think, I think most relationships with women have been complicated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1066.0,1077.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But you know, with Mo, I think I was pretty close to Mo and Moe would even ask me a time, sometimes about personal relationships,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1078.0,1094.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: relating to his wife, but I never offered any opinion about that or talked about it, unless he talked about it, and I asked him to do the same with me, and so we just didn't bother each other about crying, you know, so but it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1095.0,1119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: must have been of some comfort to have you there for him. What was his relationship with the rest of his staff? As you observed it then with Roger Lewis? Well, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1120.0,1129.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was good. Very good. Roger was sort of the guy who organized everything, and Dick Olson was the creative guy, the writer, and they were both very good, both extremely talented people. Dick and Moe would clash from time to time. It was kind of an ego clash, I think, more than anything else, and Dick contributed heavily to Mo's early writing. It often became sort of a competition between the two of them in the production of the newsletter. Dick drove Moe crazy because he's a procrastinator. He's a typical newspaper guy football, when he got down to write, he could write. He did it. Did he write? A touch and a genius in His written Word and a way of of injecting and massaging language, which may have been even better than dicks and so. They'd go work on they go back and forth. So that was Dick's role, basically. And Mo was always mad at him because the newsletter draft was always late. Most newsletters were a big part of his self expression and big part of his ego. He loved to write, and he was good at it. Roger is a guy I always hard to kind of figure out he's it was a very quiet man. The absence of ego was even quite unusual. Jalalego Rogers seemed to have. I'm not sure I ever understood him, but I always liked him,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1130.0,1250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: who was most personal secretary though, Louise Greenfield,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1251.0,1254.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: what would you like? Louise is wonderful. Louise was very capable, very charming, little wild, maybe after hours, she had come to Washington from Idaho, and then, like most of us, connected with some, whoever was, maybe, I don't know which Senator or whatever, but in any event, the marriage broke up and she was left there with a couple kids and went to work as a personal secretary. She was very, a very good secretary, and I remember in 65 meeting her and getting to know her and like her a lot. I even did a little of the nightlife with her. But I remember that she she ran into a big financial bind and and Mo co signed a note to buy her house, which I thought was a pretty nice thing for guy to do. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1255.0,1330.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did she end up working for him? Do you recall or kind of getting ahead of ourselves? I think, Well, I think that she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1331.0,1337.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: worked for him, and then there was they didn't really settle on anybody until they found Donnie Kell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1338.0,1350.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any particular legislation that you worked on during that internship? Or was it just,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1351.0,1355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, I worked on it was like Stuart was talking today. Mo that January was leading a rebellion of his own in the committee on post office and civil service, run by the courtly presence of one Tom Murray of Tennessee, who had only one problem as a chairman, he never called meetings. And Mo was concerned that the postal system was falling apart, was lost in nepotism and corruption and was about to become a huge embarrassment. And since he was on the committee, not his first choice, incidentally, to be on the post office committee, he was a it was a bad appointment caused by his his election in a special election coming in late after everybody had been assigned seats. So he got this lousy committee. But you know, Mo, being Mo, you're going to figure out how to use whatever you got. So mo decided that they needed to get a grip on the salary. It had the civil service salary system in it, and it had the federal judge's pay system in it. It had the congressional pay system in it. And one of the things that Moe saw was that there was corruption. Was everywhere. Cash was all around, and the members of Congress, because they made nothing for salaries, $22,000 or something that they had in the back door, they had law firms. So the special interest would go hire the law firm of the annual honorable manual seller of New York, very dignified Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. And it may not win the case for them, but it certainly gave them access. So there were a lot of big, big issues, ethics issues, floating around at the time, not speak of the oil industry and how it ran the southern patch. And so most saw reform of the salary system giving people a decent enough wage that they don't need to do those things, and then as part of that, putting down ethics restrictions because. A way to go, and he eventually achieved that over the years, but clearly nothing was going to happen as long as Tom Murray ruled the post office and civil service committee. So Moe organized that winner. He organized a revolution. And among the members, Arnold Olson of Montana, Thaddeus Dulsky of New York State, put together a coalition of people, divided up the spoils and took over the committee. And that was I worked on that all January","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1356.0,1544.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was, was this his first major sort of foray into fighting the seniority system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1545.0,1550.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think it was, and it was an important one, and it was patterned to some degree, after the the Education and Labor Committee fight that Stewart led 1958 and in a sense, he was doing what Stewart had already done once before. And it became, again, another step forward for the reformers and fuel. I put fuel. I put fuel on their","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1551.0,1579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: fire. That was a similar situation with Stuart, wasn't it, where they wouldn't call meetings,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1580.0,1585.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: couldn't get a meeting, that committee had no rules. What were the rules of committee? There were none. The rules of the committee were, call up the chairman's office and see if you can get an appointment. That was the rule. So,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1586.0,1601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so you, you then went back to at the end of your internship was, yeah, Summer, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1602.0,1606.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: What? Went back to Arizona in the fall. So you worked in Washington through the summer. This also happened to be a point in my life when I became quite ill, and and almost deathly ill and probably living too much of the high life. And they now think a virus or something, and my pancreas went into spasm, and I developed what they first thought was kind of a common case of pancreatitis, but turned out to be something considerably worse. And so my life from the time I was in maybe my fourth month with Udall in Washington, I found myself in an emergency room at Georgetown hospital, and then hospitalized just then for like a week or so, but sick, real sick for the next two years and but, you know, I came Back here and did finish my master's degree in 1960 665, I guess no, 66","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1607.0,1686.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, while you were in graduate school, is that where you met John gabusi,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1687.0,1689.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did. I met John there. I met my wife there, Nancy. Nancy. I met Nancy here. She was an undergraduate at the U of A came out. She came out to marry a cowboy and found me well a mistake. And John gabusi was a very close friend of mine in graduate school. He was as was Earl de Berg. The three of us hunger hung around together. Earl's been a very successful pollster in Phoenix, and I still count them among my very close friends. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1690.0,1724.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: your relationship with him, I mean, you were more than just passing acquaintances. And absolutely in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1725.0,1731.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: fact, when an opening a few years later appeared, Mo got a subcommittee and wanted to take on postal reform, and was thinking about hiring a new staff person. I recommended John caboso, and he hired him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1732.0,1749.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now you mentioned mo loaning you his car. John gave me some story about him loaning you his car.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1750.0,1758.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Is that history. This isn't mine. I had a few wild oats in my younger years. Luckily, I survived them, even though John's car didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1759.0,1774.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I won't follow up on that. What did you do after graduate school, after you got you that was a master's degree the two,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1775.0,1780.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: right? Well, actually, I continued for a few months doing what I was already doing while in graduate school, although, again, I was fighting a pretty bad illness, and I was one time, I think, 30 days in Tucson Medical Center on IVs and the whole deal. But I just. When I was well enough, I finished my master's degree, and I was hired by kvoa television to cover politics during that election year, they had decided to do expanded political coverage, and they needed somebody who understood it, and they thought maybe they could teach to be at least respectable on television. And they went to the political science department, and I was recommended, and so I had a kind of a night job, doing the news as a reporter, not on camera anchor, but I did stand up reports, and I was a reporter, and I also had a nightly show that I shared with another guy. We called it see how they run, and I did generally arrogant interviews with politicians every night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1781.0,1860.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: This was just during one campaign, right election. Right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1861.0,1862.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: among those I interviewed was Mo Udall and Barry Goldwater and Jack Williams, who was then running for governor and stuff like that. So i i that extended for a few months, but that was going to wear out, and I needed to just so I, I actually asked Dick Olson, well, if he thought there was any chance that there'd be a spot for me back there and and he said that that they'd all been very impressed with my work and Mo like my writing, and he thought there was A spot going to be opening up, and encouraged me, without being 100% sure, to come back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1863.0,1906.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So I didn't exactly tell Nancy I didn't have a job, and we drove across the country, and I knew I didn't really have a job, but I thought I did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1907.0,1922.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and Nancy thought for sure I had a job. And I remember we, we sort of did the country, and we stopped in St Louis and saw friends and family, and actually stopped up in Detroit and saw her family and brothers and and then on the way down to Washington, got caught in a incredible snowstorm in the Pennsylvania mountains, and were snowed in for two days. And I called when we got there and we were snowed in. Luckily, we had a hotel room. I remember calling dickelson from a pay phone that next morning and saying, Hey, Dick This is Terry Bracy. I just want you to know I'll be there tomorrow morning. He said, Oh. He said, Well, why don't you come on by? I said, Well, yeah, I said, but I mean to work, right? And he said, Well, he said, the job that we thought we had didn't really open.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1923.0,1991.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So he said, but we'll figure something out. And so I sure I didn't tell Nancy about that one,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1992.0,1998.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and I showed up the next now, were you and Nancy married at this Yeah, just married. When did you get married? 1966","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=1999.0,2005.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in the summer, okay, August. That's when you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2006.0,2008.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were at Kate KU 18.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2009.0,2010.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: By the way, I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2011.0,2011.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sorry, kvoa, is that where you met Chris Helms? Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2012.0,2015.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was he was, kind","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2016.0,2017.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of my boss. He was a senior reporter there he was, taught me how to edit sound on film, taught me how to use a or a con camera. Wonderful guy. Very funny. Loved him. Yeah, that's where I met Chris.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2018.0,2030.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, all right. Well, so you've just arrived in Washington again without a job that you thought maybe you had. And anyway,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2031.0,2037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: make a long story short, they brokered together this thing where I they used my writing ability and so on. And I worked doing sort of press and writing for five congressmen, and they all paid me a little out of their staff. And the congressmen were, Mo, you do Brock Adams of Washington State, who went on to be transportation secretary and a senator and the first budget chairman, Henry Royce of Wisconsin, who for many years was a famous chairman of the House Banking Committee bill. Hungate of Missouri who became famous during the Watergate trials, our hearings and stuff, and became a noted federal judge and and others on and off. But those were the core people and I was shared for about. Out a year, and then when the opening did occur, Mo asked me to work full time on his staff, and I did. And the day after, Brock Adams offered me the job of being his administrative assistant for a lot more money, and Nancy said, You're crazy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2038.0,2116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The day after mo offered you the job Brock, I have accepted it. What was the position for mo Hmm,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2117.0,2126.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was kind of the third executive in the office.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2127.0,2131.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did they have legislative assistance with that? Yeah, Dick was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2132.0,2134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Dick's title was legislative assistant. Roger titles administrative assistant, and my title was staff assistant. I think I'm not sure, maybe eventually they made me a press secretary too. At one point, I did all kinds of things there. I answered his mail, mostly in the beginning, I got very good at it. I was a good writer by nature, and I could pick up his idiom very quickly. I did so well that he had me responding to his mother on occasion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2135.0,2165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, be honest, did you, at least for a short time, have any regrets going with him and not Brock Adams?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2166.0,2174.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Never, never. No, I was swept up by Mo Udall. Mo Udall was the most impressive man I've ever met. He remains that this was a guy. Let's see, I was an athlete,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2175.0,2189.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and he was a terrific athlete. And, I mean, he had been a really big time athlete and and he flew his own airplane. He didn't depend on a lot of people. He could do his own writing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2190.0,2211.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He His mind was just beyond anything I I could remember. I mean, his, his memory. I mean, he was so talented. I thought, gosh. I mean, he was like a teacher, and he liked to teach. So I was totally swept up by Mo YouTube, totally not that I didn't like Brock, and we're still very close friends and and others. But there's never any question in my mind from the day I met. It really the day I met it, I think it was set.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2212.0,2252.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It should be going back there, yeah, yeah. But what were some of the earlier projects that you worked on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2253.0,2260.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, well, they used me to help figure out how to get the best PRF for the Central Arizona Project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2261.0,2268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And we're finding how to operate a radio","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2269.0,2269.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: system in that era where people didn't that was the new technology. You could get a recorder coupler set to a tape recorder, and you could interview a congressman and feed it to all the radio stations in the district, and basically be on radio all week. So I would do things like that, and I was I got to be a master at that. All my clients dominated their radio but I also did for the Central Arizona Project Association, some work, most of which had to do with figuring out how to make the best use of Senator Hayden, who was not in his best years At that point. So I'd try to I got pretty good at getting a good sentence out of Senator Hayden.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2270.0,2328.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Give me an idea of just timing here, when you came back and started working for Moe and Brock Adams and the others, and then later went to work for Moe. How long a period of time was it that you work. I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2329.0,2341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did that thing 66 and most of 67 I think I went to work for mo late in 67 would be my guess. Maybe it was 68 I'd have to look at the but it was all during that period. And so that's how I got my humble sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2342.0,2361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now 6068 is When Mo challenged House Speaker John McCormick for the speakership, a sort of unheard of thing at that time. Were you involved in that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2362.0,2379.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Tangentially? Yes, more as a router than as a participant. Although I was apprised of everything that was going on and I was offering ideas here and there and so on, Mo mostly treated this as a member to member thing. And. I'm not sure at that point in my development, I had much to offer in terms of wisdom about the house that certainly wouldn't be true now, but then it was but I was around and it was exciting, and it was clear that he was becoming somebody big time. Were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2380.0,2417.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Roger and Dick pretty much behind him doing that. Or were they sort of more spectators as well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2418.0,2424.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I put them a little further up the food chain than I was, but still largely, it was an operation that Moe ran with a committee of colleagues, really led by Brock Adams young rebels who really wanted to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2425.0,2443.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: do the job, who were considered the young rebels then Mo Udall, but he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2444.0,2449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was considered more moderate than somebody that the southerners could talk to, but Don Frazier, the people who hung around the DSG, Frank Thompson, the Democratic study group, crowd, Dick bowling was sort of the kind of the architect and the strategist of that group. He was a brilliant guy. And where was he from, Missouri, Kansas City, right. Okay, Kansas City wrote a great book called house out of order. I recommend it to everybody. It really paints a picture of a house of representatives in that era, and you had to understand it that Carl Vinson was the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee in 1963 if you were a young member of the Armed Services Committee, and if you wish to be recognized in committee, you would first line up at his personal office before the committee session and get his permission that's how it operated. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2450.0,2524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I can see where that might have driven me a little crazy. I'm going to take this opportunity to flip the tape over. Good. I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273#t=2525.0,2527.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270273/transcript/78589/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/589/original/azu_ms396-004_side1_a.vtt?1744913015","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/589/original/azu_ms396-004_side1_a.vtt?1744913015"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - azu_ms396-004_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2700.936,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/274/original/azu_ms396-004_side2_a.mp3?1744847760","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2700.936,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, we're on side B in 68 Mo, also married Ella Royston, did you know Ella?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1.0,10.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I did. I had gotten to know Ella a little bit socially,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=11.0,19.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: particularly the first time I was there as an intern. She was a friend of Louise greenfields and Jean Jones, and ran in what was considered a partying crowd. And, you know, after Mo was divorced and and so, I mean, he, he was lonesome. So he, he'd meet people at the Democratic Club and have a drink at night, and Ella was there, and I think that's how they really got to know each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=20.0,54.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, was Ella working on Capitol Hill then? Yeah, Ella","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=55.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had always been a she was a Virginia gal and had grown up in the area, a local gal, and had always had a career as a secretarial type person on Capitol Hill. And I think when Moe met her, she may have been a staff person on the post office and Civil Service Committee. She may have been a professional on that committee when they met. I'm not sure. Yeah, I knew Ella.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=59.0,90.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, had John gabusi started, started back there yet? Okay, I'm just thinking of post office. I think I seem to recall Ella did work in the subcommittee at some point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=91.0,101.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that's right, and I think he may have met her that way. Don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=102.0,108.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you know how long they dated or courted or whatever, before they were married?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=109.0,114.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I really don't. I just know that. Yeah, I know that there was a point at which, during the 68 campaign, i Mo and I were driving somewhere and he started talking about Mary now, and which should not come as a huge surprise to me. But what did come as a surprise is he asked me what my opinion of that was, whether I thought he ought to do it or not. So I it was. I remember the timing pretty well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=115.0,156.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and you said","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=157.0,159.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that will never be recorded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=160.0,161.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I have to try. When just giving me an idea of timing again, was the cap still a factor in 68","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=162.0,172.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: oh, yeah, Cap was ultimately signed into law in 68 and it was a very big deal and a very big win for the state, and all the incumbents were happily re elected, and Moe was never in any trouble anyway at that point, except that he could have been in trouble because of the stand he took on Vietnam, which I admired. And furthermore, I thought the speech he gave was a great speech on Vietnam, on Vietnam. I thought it was a great, great analysis of the situation that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=173.0,219.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was 67 or was that November 67","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=220.0,227.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so he had almost a year to get it out of the way for that election, and it did seem to ebb as an issue, and the central Arizona project was approved. And I don't remember having a particularly difficult re election, but he, he, he wanted somebody who understood how to do television, and I had an understanding of how to do that, and we were among the first who used it in campaigns, and used it, I think, with reasonable effectiveness in campaigns. And so he was so I more and more I did those campaigns. And so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=228.0,271.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: television was not a usual form of campaigning. In 68 it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=272.0,276.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was not a develop it was a developing art, and it was our stuff was influenced by Charles Guggenheim. I'd say with Charlie Guggenheim was the main influence on me and how he sort of used film to bring out the personality of the of the people I. It. And Mo is an easy product to sell, and so we did some stuff now, which would look probably pretty fossilized, but at the time, was hard to beat. Won national awards. We did it with local people here, and I wrote scripts and imagined what was going to be done. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=277.0,320.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I even remember that you were in one of I was in one of them. They were good, weren't they? Yeah, I thought they were brilliant, going back to 67 and and the Vietnam War speech. Did Moe write that himself? Were you involved in writing Moe, no, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=321.0,338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was not. Moe wrote that with Dick Olson. It was there was strictly the Mo Udall, Dick Olson team on that one. Do you recall","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=339.0,349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when he decided to go that route? Did he discuss that with you at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=350.0,355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I could tell in his private conversation where his head was on the subject long before November that year. I mean, you know, it's clear to me that Mo was moving, and soon as I started doing work for him in 66 I was pretty clear to me that that he had, he was growing extremely skeptical about of this war, kind of the policies, and of all these kind of best and brightest advisors who were, he thought giving some pretty lousy advice to Johnson, and you could just see it coming.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=356.0,400.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you have any feel for with Stuart being in the cabinet at that time and Johnson not being one to take disaffection very well? Was that something? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=401.0,414.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I should have asked about that today. I'm sorry I didn't. John gabusi reminded me of it, damn it. I wish I had thought of it, but yeah, you know, I what went on was sort of a conspiracy between the brothers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=415.0,431.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and What? What? When the White House got wind of what Moe was about to do,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=432.0,440.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think they contacted any number of people, but I know the Secretary of State called Moe and maybe the Secretary of Defense ahead of time, and I remember what Stewart's private advice to Moe was, you know, Stuart didn't want to be in the middle of it. Was just do it and don't tell me about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=441.0,468.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So the word had gotten out that he was going to do this speech,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=469.0,470.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, but they held it tight. But the word had a few days ahead of time. Mo let some people know he did the classy thing. He gave, he gave the president sent a copy of it to the present. I'm going to give this speech I want to let you know about. And so that's when all the calls started. But that's a great one to ask Stu about. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=471.0,504.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1970 Mo, ran for majority leader against Hale Boggs. Were you involved in that at all? Or was this something that he Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=505.0,515.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was more deeply involved in that, as was John gabusi. So when did John","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=516.0,520.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: come? John had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=521.0,521.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: come in maybe the year before, okay, but I'm more than John maybe on that moet by that point, was making far greater use of me, and we had drawn a lot closer. He liked to talk to me about things, and so I became very involved. By that point, I was kind of very involved in everything he was doing. And actually one of my great regrets about that is it created a tension between me and Dick Olson,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=522.0,564.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was he using you more and Dick less, or just you more? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=565.0,567.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I I remember one thing that happened was that mo decided that he wanted me to do the campaign, and he didn't want dick to do it. He wanted me to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=568.0,579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And that was 68","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=580.0,581.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I believe it was, maybe it was 70. But through that period of time, I think maybe that was 70, and it was a, it was not, not good. It was one of those things and but Mo and Dick. Up there, but I continued to have conflicts, and particularly Dick just when Moe married Ella, you know, Dick was just so disapproving of that. So anyway, before long, Dick was gone, and I was doing I picked up all of his stuff, in addition to what I did myself, and I sort of at that point, became most backup writer. And I don't know you saw my job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=582.0,638.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you? Did you run the 70 was this 1970 campaign, the first campaign that you did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=639.0,644.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that's right. I think that's right. Now when we say I did it, keep in mind that my role in it was to deal with the writing, the creative side, the press, the television, the strategy. But John gabusi ran the day to day campaign. John, I think, has always been a superior administrator, certainly superior to me, and very talented. And so John and I worked as a team and and that that propelled itself into the 7675 76 campaign for president","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=645.0,686.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was did was Ellie Udall at that time campaigning with Mo in in the Tucson area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=687.0,695.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Mo have brought her in and introduced her slowly and she became more and more a presence here. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=696.0,704.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so you were scheduling, did you schedule them together, then do her own schedule? It was a different era. Did she campaign? Actually? She Yeah, she'd go to parties, she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=705.0,716.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: enjoyed herself. She'd like to sign. She come out here and sit in the sun. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=717.0,721.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was the time nowadays? I guess, more wiser, actively involved in the campaign? Well, it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=722.0,726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a different world. Yeah, yeah, just completely different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=727.0,732.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: 71 I think it was mo became very much involved in the campaign finance reform bill, exactly. And as I recall, you had a lot to do with that as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=733.0,744.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I yeah, I did, Julie, it was a great experience. In 71 Mo, decided to to try to move ahead on on campaign finance reform.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=745.0,760.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And common cause had been organized to support this kind of effort, and John Gardner headed common cause, and there seemed to be steam for it on the editorial pages of the important newspapers of the country. And so Moe thought it was a time to do it and but it had to be bipartisan. And so Moe solicited the partnership of John Anderson of Illinois, who was then the head of the Republican Conference, the third leadership position in the house, and who was a moderate from Illinois and a natural ally and other things as well. And we they produced what was called the Anderson Udall bill, done alphabetically. And the two staff people assigned to do the work were promote Mo Udall me, Terry Bracey, and for John Anderson, a young guy named David Stockman. And Dave, of course, went on to have a fantastic political and now financial career, but Dave and I worked very closely in cooking up the contents of that bill and what might sell and what might not, in fact, later, the two of us working together with, of course, some outside idea people came up with the notion of matching funds in presidential races.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=761.0,855.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That was an original. That was an original,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=856.0,858.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, and it came out of the Anderson Udall effort. Of course, it was not completely innocent on my part, at least, because if you ever had any dreams of the presidency and you didn't have any money, matching funds were one way to go. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=859.0,876.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: as far back as when 7071 you were thinking of a presidential race, yeah, was mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=877.0,888.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: probably really Yes, and it really matured in 1972 when some friends of. Mind led to us, although Mo was for muskie and we I John and I ran the Muskie effort. You helped here, and we eked it out early on in Arizona, but muskie went down the tubes, and McGovern won the war. Was the issue. And God, I thought the world had passed me by. I was 29 years old. I think here was Gary Hart, a guy knew very well on the cover of Time Magazine, and Rick Stearns, another guy I knew very well and liked. He was the evil genius of the Montgomery. And I thought, Where am I in all this? Well, the answer was, I was asked to be the Western coordinator during the general election for the Democratic Party. So I had all the states except California,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=889.0,947.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and this was 7272","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=948.0,950.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in the general election. And of course, we were destined to lose every single one of them, along with everything else except Massachusetts. But it provided me an invaluable experience, and seeing how it was done,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=951.0,967.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: how states were organized, how you know what the infighting was like, how you did it. And I had many experiences during that few months. But of course, I immediately hired my sidekick, gabusi, to be my partner in this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=968.0,993.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and told mo I was going to do this, and Moe conspired with us. He had an easy re election, and he was quite happy to have us go off and learn how this is done, which is exactly what we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=994.0,1006.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So if you had to put a time on when you thought the seeds running for president were in his mind, when would you say,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1007.0,1019.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think latently, they were always there. You know, I think having a young Edgar beaver like me, who kind of worshiped Him, but who was also real smart and had gained a lot of useful experience was one of the things that pushed him. And, you know? I mean, you had to think about how you launch it and how you do all this and all that we did it pretty cleverly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1020.0,1051.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did did you, or Mo, or both of you, consult Stuart at some point in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1052.0,1056.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: time, both of us did. That's probably the era when I got to know Stewart quite","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1057.0,1061.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: well. When would that have been about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1062.0,1065.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I had always known Stuart a little bit, but I really got to know him when Moe ran for president. In fact, I suggested that Moe makes Stewart as campaign chairman, because there was so much in fighting going on, I could just see it coming, but I thought only if he had a brother next to him, you know, would he have someone who was unassailable, ultimately, and and I also so he did that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1066.0,1096.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What was, what was his reaction initially, when, when you and Mo, or one of you, or both of you, approached Stewart and about those ambitions, or about the possibility of running for president,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1097.0,1114.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: loved it scared him a little. They loved it. Thought it was audacious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1115.0,1119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Think that's the word that he has used most to describe Moe as audacious. Often","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1120.0,1127.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Moe just did it, and he's just the most amazing guy. And I've had some commentary, which, of course, I love, but about the way I've sort of taken the foundation and how aggressive and I've just I learned from them. I mean, I learned that you can take a very small thing and make it into a very big thing if you've got the right motives and the right intention and can find and get the smartest people you can around you. And that's this foundation is going to be a huge success. Julie,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1128.0,1162.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't know that at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1163.0,1165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I mean, look what we're doing already. So this is all learned from Mo. This is where I got my basic instruction in life, survival.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1166.0,1179.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What? What did you all do when you first decided it's a go, we're gonna go for president, was, I assume, mostly you and John gabusi and Mo at that point, what did you What did you do at the beginning?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1180.0,1193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: How did well, you went to New Hampshire to show you were for real. And just start. Working New Hampshire about though","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1194.0,1200.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the letter from the congressman. I mean, how did all of that get well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1201.0,1204.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I can't really remember whether I cooked that idea up or Moe did, but I remember Moe's mantra, I wouldn't do this unless at least 50 members of the House asked me to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1205.0,1216.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So was that a concern? Partly because traditionally, people had not run for the presidency from the house or as Justice considered","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1217.0,1224.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: crazy, but there was always been this wonderful tension between the House and the Senate. You know, the Senate. It's not the parties the Senate, it's the real enemy, right? And the idea that any senator not under indictment considered himself a presidential candidate, and some under indictment did, and that no house member could be thought of in a serious way. And so Moe became the poster child for that movement. And I don't know if it was 50 or 55 or 60, we signatures of very significant people who basically said, Go ahead, Mo, we're for you. Read my Dave Obi and a bunch of the young then Turks. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1225.0,1268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you think they thought he had a chance at that point, or was this a symbolic run that they were encouraging him to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1269.0,1278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, I don't know how they rated his chances, probably not as great, but they sure like the idea that a guy of his quality was going to go out there and represent the House of Representatives in this deal, and therefore maybe elevate their own prestige and the prestige of the house. So I think there, there was a lot of that feeling in it. And of course, he did just that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1279.0,1303.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you recall who wrote the letter? Who authored the letter that the Congressman signed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1304.0,1310.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I, you know, I can't say the final I know I was involved in drafts of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1311.0,1317.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, Dick Olson was no longer there. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1318.0,1320.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: don't remember exactly when Dick left, but, yeah, I think Dick was gone and working at The Wilderness Society at that point, and Roger Lewis to go hit the boys room. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1321.0,1332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: we can, we can put it on hold here. Yeah, we'll put on hold. Okay, we're, we're back on the air, as it were. Okay. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1333.0,1341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Before you left, you mentioned something about your role in the campaign, and my sensitive is that you were basically the strategist. Would that be?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1342.0,1355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think that's probably I went through moments when I fell in and out of favor, but largely mo depended upon me to sort of be his political strategist and to think this through. How to get the best result out of this effort and a try to win. If you can't win, how do you come out of it a bigger, better, more powerful figure. So my kind of role with Him may have come in conflict to some extent with my role in the campaign, because it was larger, you know, I was going to be there, whether he won or lost, and we knew that this was, you know, a long shot and his first shot. And so my perspective was a more long term perspective about him than the people, Jack Quinn and others who who came in, you know, just for the purpose of running a campaign, and their detention for them was to run the campaign, win the campaign life was over, or their Utah life was over after that campaign. In my case, I felt I had wider responsibilities, and I'm sure that's what mo wanted. You were still on the staff at that the congressional staff. Wanted me to stay on the congressional staff. He did not want me to go to the campaign. He wanted me and I traveled with him. The two of us traveled together in his first run around the country, just the two of us. So, you know, I played a lot of different roles with them. John Cabos, again, was going to do the logistics, be the quote campaign manager. And John did that initially, but then, because of some family problems that erupted out of nowhere, John, all sudden, had to leave the campaign, and we were left a month from Iowa, looking for a new campaign manager. So. And there was a lot of a lot of disruption at that at that point, was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1356.0,1507.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the original intent that that John would be manager of the campaign throughout","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1508.0,1513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I would sort of the game plan was that I get this thing started. I get the basic organization started in New Hampshire. I'd do the press, I'd get mo posture, I'd do that part, and I did it. And then and travel with Mo. And then, as it got into the time for the campaign, John would gradually take over. And I would then just probably be with Mo, or be a head writer, or whatever it was. And problem is we got to sort of that transition point, and all sudden, John wasn't there, and so you had to hand over. And I never did it very well, all your hopes and dreams and aspirations and history of this effort to someone you never met before, really. And it was, it was Jack Quinn, who's turned out to be a very successful, capable Washington lawyer who served as Chief of Staff to the Vice President, who served as a council White House Counsel, a very smart, able, tough character, but I never could quite and then certain Things happened that intervened. For example, most health started going south.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1514.0,1604.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: When did you first start noticing that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1605.0,1606.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 74 we were here for a in Phoenix, actually for a fundraiser, and Mo had been complaining and feeling bad all day and and, but we went through it that it was at the Adams hotel in Phoenix, and we had a fundraiser. It was a nice fundraiser. Turned out well, and Moe and I were upstairs and and I think sharing is sweet, but anyway, bang, bang, bang on my door in the middle of the night, Mo said, Terry, you got to get me a cab. We got to get to the hospital. And he was all crouched over, and he was having chest pains, and I thought he was having a heart attack, and I think he did too. He felt awful. And so I got some clothes on him, and he looked downstairs, and I said, Mo, we really ought to get an ambulance, and now I won an ambulance. And so there I am at 2am outside the Adams hotel, Trent looking for a cab in Phoenix. They don't exist. So finally, I think it was a guy from the hotel. I got a security guy or something to give us a ride to Good Samaritan Hospital, and so he was in good Sam for most of a week, or more than a week, maybe at least a week, I'd say. And what they finally diagnosed was a case of pneumonia, bad case of pneumonia. But you can mark on any chart you wish the decline of his health from that day forward, he was never able, after that to really work a full day on the campaign trail. And of course, he didn't want other people to know that it happened to be something I knew, and I would intervene time and time again, unhappily with the campaign, and chop his schedule. He had to rest in the afternoon. He couldn't make it. He had to rest well anyway, that that That episode was beginning of Parkinson's,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1607.0,1744.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that was in 1974 he announced in 74 didn't he later, like November, I want to say Parkinson's, no. He announced his his candidacy for the Democratic nomination in 74","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1745.0,1760.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was, yeah, this may have been 75 because he had already announced, and we decided, I decided, and he went along with it, that the way to announce was to do it in New Hampshire. So this was after anybody else did it, and that's how we got all the evening news and all the got a big lift off that you wouldn't have had if you were a home House member or something. Now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1761.0,1787.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So okay, the incident you're talking about was campaign. The incident you're talking about, though, was after he announced. After he announced. Several months it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1788.0,1795.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: after he announced. But in any event. There was a health issue that created some tension and that kind of stuff. So, you know, my role in the campaign was really more an extension of my role in his life. And I've never exactly found the name for it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1796.0,1825.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when backing up just a little bit, when Moe announced he announced two years in advance, which was the longest that anybody had announced or declared a campaign at that point. Now it's becoming fairly standard. But did did? Mo was quite an advocate of of of control campaign finance and things like that. Did he see any friction between the idea of length in the campaigns and campaign finance reform? Certainly not. Then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1826.0,1859.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he was off, and he was launched, and that was that. And I pushed him out there as far as I could get him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1860.0,1868.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: When, when Jack Quinn took over as campaign manager. Was mo already to you, showing signs, physical problems, was that had that occurred before, after Jack took over from John, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1869.0,1889.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had happened before, I believe. I don't know those dates exactly, but Jack was trying to run a campaign, and he had no clue about anything personal having to do with Moe that I know of, and I was, I don't know there was something about Jack that was off putting to me, but beyond that, it was a troubling Time, because it was hard to vest, and someone knew like this, all the authority that. So I had a hard time with it. I didn't handle it well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1890.0,1929.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And you and John had been John, oh, yeah, very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1930.0,1932.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: close, you know, we had worked together for years, so I Jack and I didn't click, and it all got very petty. And you know all that for a while. Actually, I missed some of the best days of the campaign because of that. I just I stayed away in New Hampshire. Although I had organized New Hampshire the night of New Hampshire primary, I was actually at my home with Nancy in McLean, Virginia. I didn't go up there. That's how tense the situation was. How long before November calling me with the early returns and, you know? And the other thing about my relationship with Mo was that, that, you know, we were real close. And it, it did. It did cause jealousy among others who wish to be very close to him. And in some ways I was in the way. You know, you see this replayed. Shakespeare's shown it. You see replayed all the time. I was in that scenario for some period of time. It was not a particularly happy period. Professionally for me,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=1933.0,2011.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: very awkward. It sounds like it was very awkward. How about other, other key players on the campaign, scheduler, Ron Patton, Ed Boyle, or the Yeah, they were all, what about Well, Ron Penton, how? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2012.0,2026.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: thought he was a very able scheduler. No, he seemed to know exactly what he was doing. He was okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2027.0,2033.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How was his relationship with Mo?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2034.0,2037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, a scheduled relationship is never very good with anybody. It's a terrible job. Your job is to control things and say no to most everybody. And of course, the first person that hates you is the candidate spouse. But I thought Ron did a good job","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2038.0,2057.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: speaking of candidate spouse. How was Ella dealing with the idea of Mo running for president in the early stages? Was she in favor of the idea in the early stages?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2058.0,2067.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It scared her, but she caught the magic. She","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2068.0,2074.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: got into it. She got into Did she enjoy the campaigning?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2075.0,2078.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think she did. I really do think she had active attack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2079.0,2084.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Ed Coyle, what was his position in the campaign? Was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2085.0,2090.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that Ed was a guy that John had hired. I don't remember exactly what Ed was he i. He had some significant organizational","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2091.0,2109.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: role in the campaign, although I've never figured out exactly what it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2110.0,2114.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How was his relationship with Mo?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2115.0,2118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was generally good, I think. And it was good for quite a number of years, until mo really got put off with his the way Ed was spending money with independent action and Mo was, it was good for a while. You um,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2119.0,2143.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when, when in the campaigns and caucuses, did Jack Quinn take over? Was it pre Iowa? Strikes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2144.0,2150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: me as pre Iowa, right before, just before Iowa, a couple months before Iowa. I, of course, I didn't know what I didn't know, but Iowa looked to me like a waste of money and time, I thought we could win New Hampshire, and there was a lot of evidence that we could. We had a wonderful organization put together there, led by Maria carrier, remember, and we had a real chance to win New Hampshire, MERV Weston and that whole crowd, wonderful group. But of course, Carter got hot early in Iowa. And maybe if Moe weren't in Iowa and Carter had gotten hot, it would have hurt Moe equally. But the fact that Moe went to Iowa late, finished fourth. Was it fourth? I believe, yeah. You know, finished badly a week before New Hampshire, two weeks before New Hampshire was was, was the that increment of momentum that was taken away from us that caused mo to be second, not first, in New Hampshire. So I was, you know, I had a big investment in the New Hampshire campaign, and I summoned every moral you know, every every, every silly argument I could to say, stay out of Iowa and focus on New Hampshire. So I guess it gives me and I told you so, but it doesn't add up too much. They're all you don't know what to do. How about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2151.0,2234.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Florida? Is there? Was there any feeling later that staying out of Florida was was a mistake. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2235.0,2245.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Sergio Ben Dixon, who was a young Hispanic organizer in Florida, and a good one, went on to some fame in the game and some others, approached us about getting in the Florida primary. And of course, we were trying to figure out what to do. We were tempted and so on, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2246.0,2268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it was clear, when you looked at it, that the effect of Mo getting into the Florida primary would almost certainly mean that George Wallace would win. So on the one hand, you really didn't want Jimmy Carter to win because you did. You wanted to beat Carter. On the other hand, you really didn't want George Wallace to win, and which one Didn't you want the most at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2269.0,2300.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the time the decision was made on Florida, was Jimmy Carter much of a factor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2301.0,2305.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Jimmy Carter was becoming a factor. These decisions were all starting to become, I mean, to those of us who were at the ground level in the campaign, we saw Carter, and we saw how he was organized, and Carter was certainly a factor, because we figured that Carter's strength would be in the South as a southern governor. You know, that's so, you know, Carter would have a real chance to win Florida.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2306.0,2333.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And yet, the only one, none of the Liberals really challenged Carter in the south, did they?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2334.0,2343.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I don't know. I'd have to see who ended up on the ballot in Florida. I think they all intended to go there by and all the rest of them big state, although not the Florida is today. But I think what Moe decided was and that, and it's probably a tactical mistake. I mean, from a tactical perspective, he clearly should have gotten in it, but from a strategic perspective, he didn't want George Wallace to get one inch further in life, and so he stayed out because he didn't want that result before","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2344.0,2384.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Iowa results were in, once all the candidates had announced, and there was quite a field of competing liberals, who did, who did you? And mo think was. Your primary opposition?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2385.0,2400.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it's kind of looked like Scoop Jackson. He had a big war chest. He was obviously a very capable, honorable Senator. He had some big, big interests behind him. He was a favorite of the Jewish community. He just looked like he looked, early on, like he might be the real competition.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2401.0,2430.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about among the liberals, the many liberals, probably by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2431.0,2435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: looked, I mean Burch Bai was a very famous liberal Senator well known, had worked the national press and and to some extent, the early primary states for many years, I think we saw, by probably as the most viable, although you never knew if there was still Kennedy magic and Sergeant Shriver would take off. And how about Fred Harris? Never took him seriously. The issue is privilege. The issue, the issue is privilege. And the third time you saw that speech, you just realized that he wasn't a serious man anymore. Yeah, he just wasn't serious. I mean, he was a he was off becoming a populist figure, you know, and you knew he wasn't going to win. But the problem is, you get so many bites out of your hide from people who might think about voting for you. He didn't help","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2436.0,2494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in Wisconsin in particular, by New Hampshire, he was pretty well out of the race by his own admission. By Massachusetts, he knew he was out of the race for sure, if there had been any doubt before that, yet he stayed in the race in Wisconsin, which had pretty much come down to race between Carter and Moe. By that time, Mo would come in second in a series and and the others were pretty much getting eliminated at that point, Wisconsin was was a key state. Harris was somebody you all, as I understood it, were pretty concerned was going to draw votes away from Mo. Did anybody ever approach him or his campaign and ask him to step aside under the circumstances? Do you recall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2495.0,2544.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know. Okay, I didn't as the Wisconsin campaign was going on, I was out of power for a few weeks, and John martilla had taken over, and it was his moment the sun. And then, actually, during the Wisconsin Pro I went, Mo had me go to New York City and raise some money for his media budget there, which is a job I did. I actually went up and got Bill Bradley to help. He was playing for the Knicks. And Bradley met me, call him, met me right away, had $1,000 check in his hand. Said, who can I call?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2545.0,2580.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It's great. Yeah, that's before, long before he ran for,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2581.0,2583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that's right office. He was in his last year with the Knicks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2584.0,2586.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How, how did Martelly and Kylie get involved in the campaign? What? How did that come about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2587.0,2594.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think, I think through Quinn Jack, Quinn, I think they were not. They were fair. They were pretty capable, guys, really, I wasn't, you know, I thought they were pretty capable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2595.0,2616.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So they were brought in, really,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2617.0,2618.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in the Massachusetts campaign, I think, is when they came in and they stuck. They","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2619.0,2622.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: were really the only consultants. Hired consultants. We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2623.0,2626.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: started with a guy named Johnny Allen, Johnny Allam, and he was Jack Quinn's selection. And I thought he was just pathetic. I thought the TV was just awful. And of course, I was meddling in the television, and probably what I should have done is I should have gotten outside the campaign and just done this television. But with Beau was different than that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2627.0,2658.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did that ever come up as a possibility of you doing that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2659.0,2662.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2663.0,2667.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And why didn't it happen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2668.0,2670.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It's just because I was doing so many other things","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2671.0,2677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: probably needed you where you were, to some extent, it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2678.0,2679.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: just that whatever my job was, it wasn't a job that's easily filled by someone, and he just always kind of ultimately wanted me there when, and I'm not sure what I wanted. I mean, I just, I. Talk to the people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274#t=2680.0,2682.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270274/transcript/78590/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/590/original/azu_ms396-004_side2_a.vtt?1744913048","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/590/original/azu_ms396-004_side2_a.vtt?1744913048"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - azu_ms396-005_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1629.552,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/275/original/azu_ms396-005_side1_a.mp3?1744847763","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1629.552,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, we're beginning tape number 46 it must have been, it must have been difficult to watch the campaign, sort of, in some senses, be wrested away from the very people who were there at the inception. You and John, did you feel a little out of control? Did mo feel a little Yeah, it was a very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1.0,19.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: unhappy period for me, and it was, frankly, somewhat unhappy for Mo, but it's probably necessary, and things happen like that. And but after Wisconsin, you know, Mo calls me up. You got to help me. We got to, we're going to make a run at Michigan. And so I went up to New York, and with a friend of mine, I redid the television, and we did two ads, both in black and white. I remember when we had a meeting at Mo's house, and Peter Hart came, he was doing our polling and whatnot. We were going into Michigan down something like 42 to 12. And I went up to New York with a friend of mine and did these 2/32 spots. One of them, which became somewhat famous or infamous, was a cartoon of Carter. Uh, which was in Iowa, Jimmy Carter said this about abortion. In Alabama, he said this, and it would show a smile and a frown and three or four, three issues, I think we picked where he just taken diametrically opposed positions. And I don't remember how we ended it, but it was, it was a very effective little hit Add which had the additional virtue of being true. And then all we had on Mo was a 32nd summary bio of who this guy was in black and white and painted a 32nd picture of him. PS, we lost that state by a few 1000 votes. I mean, the whole thing turned around. And if it weren't the for the fact that the UAW and the business establishment were together, and the mayor of Detroit, Coleman, young, very powerful, and everybody who was everybody wasn't, at that point, lined up for Carter, we would have won, and we lost by It was the closest primary. Mo head, Michigan, and so I came back in and finished up the campaign for him, and I wrote his convention speech. And that was a big success, the Democratic Convention his although he was second place Mo. He was triumphant at that convention. And then I decided to go on with my life. And I told Moe, I'd sort of I'd been there 10 years. I'd done everything you can do on Capitol Hill. I'd now been through two presidential campaigns, one I really cared about, and I loved him, and I always wanted to be around, but I was going to leave. I was going to find another job to do something else, and what did I want to do? He said, Well, I said, I don't know. I said, I'm tempted to try to move back to Arizona. And so I talked to some people back here about different possibilities, and, and, and then I got a call from Brock Adams, who was one of the congressmen I had worked for with Mo. He said, Terry. He said, This is secret, but I'm going to be appointed Secretary of Transportation, and I'd like you to be my assistant secretary. I said, what I said? I said, What do you think Carter is going to say about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=20.0,253.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Had Brock Adams supported Carter initially, he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=254.0,255.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: said, No. In the end he but he got in there, and, you know, Brock, at this point, had been the first chairman of the Budget Committee. Been brilliant, was called the most brightest member of Congress, and close to Tip O'Neill and Carter seized on him as a way to sort of root himself into the party. And so Brock calls me, and I said, Well, Brock, I said, Hell, that's one of the 20 best jobs in town. I'd love to have it. I said, only two problems. I said, problem number one is, I don't know a damn thing about transportation. I said, I've been doing environmental Oh, that's not a problem. You'll learn. I said, the second thing is, have you asked Jimmy Carter and Hamilton Jordan whether. They'd approve of that appointment. Oh, let me handle that. Well, lo and behold, he handled it, and I was appointed assistant secretary of transportation, and after to do invest investigations and appearances before Senate committees and so on, I was my nomination was confirmed, and I started off a whole new life. It must have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=256.0,322.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: been hard to leave working for Mo, were you just kind of burned out at that point?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=323.0,326.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, it was really time. It was time. I mean, I was either going to be a lifer or I need to go on with my own life. And so I decided to go on with my own life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=327.0,338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How was most health by the end of the campaign? I mean, it had started. It sounds like in 75 going","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=339.0,345.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: downhill. And I could see it. I could see it. Of course, after the campaign, he was somewhat depressed for a long time. It's a big downer. It's the highest high and the lowest low. So it was a combination of that, but I could see his health slipping away and well anyway, after I left Mo, our relationship continued, although somewhat differently, and he's in a position to call and asking me for things that was always fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=346.0,379.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Now was Roger Lewis still there? Then, oh","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=380.0,382.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, Roger Lewis was still there. His whole staff. I'm the only one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=383.0,385.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: left. And who took your place?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=386.0,389.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: What took my place? Well, Chris helms went to work for him for a while, but that was back here, and I can't remember. Well, what happened was that he became chairman of the interior committee, and he got a much larger staff. And so one of the guys I had hired, Stanley Scoville, who is Scott, God bless Stanley, became staff director of the committee he would have been, is he would have taken my job, but instead became staff director of the interior committee, a job which he did with distinction for many years before it passed away. And I don't know, and then I really, I, it's funny,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=390.0,442.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I didn't see mo much for the next couple of years. I'd see a little of them. I'd see a little of them. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=443.0,454.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: since I wasn't doing interior business, and I was intensely involved in everything ranging from international aviation negotiations to getting major highway transit legislation through to spending days before congressional committees myself defending Trent our 18 and $20 billion budgets. It was really, it was, it was kind of Terry on his own for the first time in Washington. And How'd that feel? Oh, I loved it. I loved it. And, and so did he, you know he, yeah, but, but the relationships shifted some. I don't know quite how, but we would be at, you know, radio, TV gallery dinners, and I'd be at the New York Times table, and he'd be at the other table. And, I mean, it was different. It was just it was different. I was a bigger figure myself than I had been, of course, he helped all that he but he seemed to take some, I would say, measure of pride in how I handled my executive branch experience. He advised me from time to time. He would take me to lunch and talk about this or that. We'd play golf. Occasionally, he'd invite me the Redskin game I felt was different, and now, as he got older and sicker, and of course, I went on and opened up and had a very successful lobbying firm, and went on with my life and my career and did a lot of things. I was he and I were sort of reunited by his his illness and and the fact that, well, for example, I used to go up and have lunches with him, like on Wednesdays, and I'd go up and and the lunch consisted of what he used to like were these strawberry yogurt milkshakes and a sandwich they could do with his hands, because he couldn't use utensils. Anymore, and he'd sit there and bend over in his office. Didn't want to eat in public. And I'd come up and we'd visit. So I'd see a fair amount of them. Then when I was in lobbying practice, or in lobbying practice, I would often get calls from mining firms or any resource type people who would want to hire me to get a meeting with Mo Udall, or they'd want to hire me solely be because of my relationship with Mo Udall, or perceived relationship, or whatnot. And I, I really, and Susan, my partner Williams, supported me in this really stay away from that, and preserved our friendship. And I think it's kind of funny, it became closer and closer and closer again towards the as he went into the really bad period of his life, physically. But I had nothing to do with the Udall foundation legislation that was dropped up by, oh, the University of Arizona and and his staff at the time. You know, I was off that different world really. I wasn't really involved. I had only one client in Arizona. Most My clients were in New York or California or overseas or whatever, and so I became a little bit disconnected, but from, you know, the stuff that was going on in his office and the machinations and the things around him, but I did stay in touch with him and Nancy, and I would have him over for dinner, and you know, that kind of thing. And, God, I played golf with Mo until you just, you just could hardly believe he even want to try, but there he'd be, just loved to play golf, take him out to play golf, and he could barely move that club, but he'd play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=455.0,725.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did there come a time when when it was very obvious he was having a difficult time performing the functions of his job?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=726.0,733.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, it. You know, the signs of parkinson really started setting in around 1980 I would say. And as you got into the mid 80s, well, I can remember, I arranged for the Democrats to do a tribute for him at the 1988 convention. I went up to see Mike Dukakis and asked him, and he said, Sure. And so we had a tribute for Moe at the ADA convention, because I figured that was the last one he was going to. And I remember I accompanied him up to the podium, where the crowd cheered him, and they had to the salute to Mo Udall. And he really wasn't able to do that day. I mean, he sort of made it through that, but then he was in bed shortly thereafter, although he although he insisted on having a scotch. Said, Mo, please, you have all this god damn it. Bracey, I want a scotch. Have a Scotch with this, all right. Mo, so Moe had a scotch, and he was asleep in a moment. But yeah, you could see around 88 that you wondered. And I started to gently, you know, ask him, What are you going to do? When are you going to do your memoirs? What are you going to do after Congress and so on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=734.0,833.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And I encourage them a couple of times to think about retiring. And then in 1990 90, late 90, I think the end of 90, Dick Gephardt grabbed a hold of me, and he said, Terry, you have got to talk to moe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=834.0,854.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He said, he has got a full fledged rebellion in that interior Committee. He said, What are we gonna do about him? He said, he just, he just can't make it around anymore. He said, Will you go talk to him? What do you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=855.0,872.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's a tough one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=873.0,875.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So I said, Yeah, I'll do it. And I I sat down and talked to him about it, and I told him. I said, No, they're gonna take your committee away. What do you mean? Take my committee away? How the hell they're gonna do that? They can't do that. I said, No, they're gonna take your committee. Way. I said, we've got to figure out some way that you can be vice chair or something, but they're going to take your committee away. And that was the last conversation I had with him before he had that accident, falling down the back of the stairs, and he's been hospitalized, was hospitalized ever after that, so I always felt bad about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=876.0,933.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I'm sure you weren't the only one thinking it, if you were the only one saying it, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=934.0,938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: don't know that I was the only one who said it to him. But, you know, it's a funny thing, these power centers build up around senior members of Congress and and they really don't want you to retire ever. It's like I saw that with Carl Hayden. You know, Carl Hayden could he was asleep most of the time that I knew him. And Mo was getting like that, and it was clear, but people were still all pushing him ahead and figuring they can get the old man for one more appropriation, and he was just vain enough to fall for it, because what else was he going to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=939.0,976.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So anyway, I'm sorry I even got into that, but you Yeah, you know, I was trying to protect him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=977.0,985.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Didn't 1980 which is when you said the Parkinson's was becoming very obvious. Didn't he consider running for president again? And made","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=986.0,995.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a speech at the Press Club, which he had me do draft after draft, and then didn't use a word of it typical, but he had a last big appearance at the Press Club as a presidential potential, making the announcement he wasn't going to run, but he was going to go on with his career, and he was going to do campaign finance, and he was going to do this and this, and sort of redefining his last years. It was probably his last great speech that I ever saw. It was a great speech, and he had him in the aisles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=996.0,1027.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So he was primarily the author of it himself, to your knowledge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1028.0,1032.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, at least I wasn't the author much there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1033.0,1037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was anyone in particular or any persons in particular, pushing him to run for president that year,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1038.0,1044.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I went to a meeting at his house. On that subject. I was invited to a meeting that included organized by Ed Coyle, that included Peter Hart and Mark Shields, who was then a writer, writing for Washington Post, but who had been one of most campaign advisors in 76 and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1045.0,1068.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were sitting around there in the old den, you know, down there by the fireplace,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1069.0,1075.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I'm listening to this discussion about whether mo ought to run for president, and I can't believe what I hear. You know, is this kabuki theater? What is this? And so, in my usual charmless way, I said, Mo, at the you know, after about 45 minutes this, I said, Mo, you can run for president because of your health. It's not even in the cards. Well, it was a very short meeting after that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1076.0,1117.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How did he respond?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1118.0,1120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He knew it was true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1121.0,1124.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So what sounds like the initiative wasn't coming from him so much as from externally, from other people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1125.0,1129.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think it was coming from Ed coy, whatever. I mean, he had mark there ready to write it, and he had Peter Hart there ready to pull it, and then he made, well, I'm sure I was there not because Ed wanted me there, but because mo wanted me there, so I played the heavy again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1130.0,1151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, that was part of your relationship with him, though, as somebody who he felt close enough to to hear the honest your honesty from too, I assume I uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1152.0,1162.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, I guess the older I've gotten, the less honesty I'm interested in. But I mean in that way, but yeah, I mean, I remember feeling at the end of that meeting like I've been, you know, I said, I said to those guys at the car, said to shields and to the others, I said, Look, I'm sorry. I didn't want to say that, and I don't, but I said, you can't even get him thinking about it. It's not possible, so don't do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1163.0,1206.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So it was a short, short lived sort of campaign. That was the end of it in 88 which is a time you were talking about before, in terms of his really getting difficult for him, is when Ella died. Were you in contact with him at all? Then? How did he deal with that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1207.0,1232.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Painfully, I don't think he ever got over it. He called me, and I came over, and I remember being with him up in his room, and, you know, kind of holding him by the shoulders and and he was saying, it's like his world had come apart. He said, he said, I never, he said, I thought I knew, but he said, I never had any idea what depression will do, you know? I mean, I think Ella's death came as a such a shock to him. You know, I think it wasn't that they were perfectly happy, and it wasn't that it wasn't yet another of his troubled marriages, because it was, but I think Moe always figured he had it handled, you know, had the situation in hand and and her death, her suicide, crushed everything he believed, and I just don't think he ever recovered from that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1233.0,1312.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It wasn't too much longer, maybe a year later, that Moe married Norma Udall, had you known Norma before?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1313.0,1322.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I met Norma years before. Actually, I met her when she was a lobbyist. And she was a lobbyist, as I recall, for the anti Defamation League, maybe, and she had been a professional around the hill. And she had been, I think she came from California, and I was very impressed by her, generally when I met her. And later, she's a very, very intelligent woman, and I could see why Mo was attracted to her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1323.0,1358.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: They were married, how am I correct? 89 something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1359.0,1361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, it's funny, I wasn't invited to the wedding, which shocked me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1362.0,1368.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was it, was it a large wedding? No, it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1369.0,1370.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a small wedding, just with House members. And I think Norma arranged it. I know Norma arranged it everything, and I haven't really gotten, didn't get to know Norma well until, until I got involved in the foundation, and she was became a member of the board, and so I really know her more now than I did then, but I met her when she was a professional on Capitol Hill. Other than that, I've known her as a reasonably effective member of our Board.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1371.0,1403.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: She's been on good ideas, backing up, backing up some here, backing up a lot here, you worked on a couple bills that we didn't, that we didn't cover one is the Alaska Native Claims Act. And also, I believe the Alaska lands bill. Are you involved?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1404.0,1425.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I was involved, yes, the Alaska Native Claims Act.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1426.0,1430.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And I think was really my 7071, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1431.0,1433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was, I was, I was the key staffer on that bill for Mo. And I was deeply involved in in the drafting of that and the legislative work, and also as part of that bill, as part of that settlement, we created what were known as the d2 lands, we set aside many, many lands in Alaska as part of that to be studied for wilderness in parks and scenic wildlife refuges and so on. And that was in part, my inspiration, working with some of the environmentalists, we cooked up this amendment that eventually passed and set aside a lot of lands for further study. Those lands ultimately became the great lands that were saved in Alaska for wilderness and other things. So yeah, I was very much involved in that was a great moment in my career. What. Stewart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1434.0,1499.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was that something Stewart was involved in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1500.0,1502.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: initially, Stewart was when he was Secretary of Interior, Stewart put a land freeze on the state of Alaska. Told him that no pipeline would be built to carry the oil. Nothing was going to happen until they dealt with the with the Aboriginal claims of the Alaska Natives, which had been widely ignored, and Stewart, by putting that land freeze in action, managed through this marvelous act of political Judo to turn the oil companies into lobbyists for the Alaska Natives, because they couldn't get their pipeline started until the lands were released, and the lands wouldn't be released until the Alaska Native Claims were settled. And that's what Stuart did. And then Moe, he handed the ball off to Moe and the Congress and Mo carried the Alaska fight for the next decade or more, and the two of them together settled the fate of Alaska.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1503.0,1571.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, was Stewart involved then in his legal practice, in the Alaska claims bill, at all after that? I mean Alaska claims","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1572.0,1579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not that I know of Stuart was involved in what are known as the down Winders. He represented the groups who, unbeknownst to them, were poisoned by winds carrying the results of atomic bomb experiments. Many of them were Native Americans, and many of them died of cancer prematurely, and Stewart won them a settlement from the US government. But that was after he was out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1580.0,1607.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: of office. That was okay. I think that's what I was thinking about the Alaska lives","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1608.0,1612.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: again to be it's 530 Oh, I gotta go. Okay, I've got to go down to Tucson Art Museum or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1613.0,1620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah for the reception. Well, thank you very much. You're welcome. Glad. I'm glad you were able to do this today. Good. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275#t=1621.0,1623.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146494/file/270275/transcript/78591/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/591/original/azu_ms396-005_side1_a.vtt?1744913081","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/591/original/azu_ms396-005_side1_a.vtt?1744913081"}]}]}]}