{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/v40js9kc37/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Pres. Jimmy Carter"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 1, tape 47"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Carter, Jimmy, 1924- (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2000-11-15"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Georgia--Atlanta (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral hsitory with President Jimmy Carter conducted by Julie Ferdon. Carter ran against Udall in his presidential campaign in 1976. They met in 1972 at the Democratic National Convention. Carter beat Udall for the Democratic party nomination."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.007 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral hsitory with President Jimmy Carter conducted by Julie Ferdon. Carter ran against Udall in his presidential campaign in 1976. They met in 1972 at the Democratic National Convention. Carter beat Udall for the Democratic party nomination."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms396-007_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1782.792,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/278/original/azu_ms396-007_side1_a.mp3?1744847772","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1782.792,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"00:01:30.000 --\u003e 00:00:19.999\nYOU. OKAY. THIS IS TAPE NUMBER 47 OF THE MORRIS K UDALL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. GOOD AFTERNOON. IT'S 1:30PM ON WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15 YEAR, 2000 MY NAME IS JULIE FERDOW, AND I'M IN THE OFFICE OF FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER AT THE CARTER CENTER IN ATLANTA, GEORGIA. OUR SINCERE THANKS FOR PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROJECT. PRESIDENT CARTER, W:\n00:00:20.000 --\u003e 00:00:25.999\nSPEAKER 2: I'm delighted to be talking about Mo Udall, one of my friends and one of my heroes. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1.0,89.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I because our time is limited, I'm going to go directly to the point of this interview, which is to record your impressions of and and relationship with Mo Udall in 1975 December, 75 you and Moe both announced your candidacy for the Democratic presidential nomination. Had you met or heard of moe before that time? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=26.0,50.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I had heard of him, but I don't think I had ever met him, unless he happened to have been at the 1972 convention when I nominated Scoop Jackson as a matter of fact. And I think Mo was probably there. Mo was there in Miami. But I think as a matter of fact, Moe announced about a month before I did in 1974 I think he announced November. Maybe I you can look at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=51.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the record. Now, Did that surprise you? I had read that you had wanted to be the first to announce. Him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=75.0,80.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, not really. I really planned to run for president ever since 1972 with a pretty firm commitment. It was a secret among me and about four or five other people, and my goal then was to run against George Wallace on my right and Ted Kennedy on my left. The presumption was it Ted Kennedy was going to run. So when Kennedy announced that he was not going to run, I was really taken aback, because I saw a kind of a flood of more liberal Democrats coming into the picture who may not have run if Kennedy had been there. And so I was still determined to go, but I had to change my strategy to some degree, because, as you know, I think nine other Democrats, and I doubt, I don't know if Moe would have run or not against against Ted Kennedy. My guess is he wouldn't. I doubt seriously, when Kennedy withdrew, they left a vacuum there in the congressional delegations in particular. And so I was a little bit distressed that I had to change my my entire strategic approach. When,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=81.0,145.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when did you first meet Mo? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=146.0,150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: as I said, I think I may have met him in 1972 since I was a fairly prominent governor, and since Mo and I were both at the convention in 1972 when McGovern was nominated, I was opposed to McGovern's nomination because I thought that it would be an automatic loss. And I had known Scoop Jackson earlier, who had visited me in the covenants mansion in Georgia, so I agreed to give the main nominating speech for scoop. But of course, in 74 we had what we call a mini convention, as you may remember, every two years. And so I guess that was the first time I really maybe shook hands with small","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=151.0,189.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what were your first impressions of him? Well, I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=190.0,192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that impression in my mind now is quite cloudy. You know, I had learned about him as soon as he announced, obviously, one of my assignments for my staff was to give me a biographical background on everybody that I was going to be one of my potential opponents. And I very quickly learned, you know, how long he'd been in the in the US Congress, the fact that he was interested in environmental issues, the fact that he had been a professional basketball player. The fact that he was from Arizona,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=193.0,222.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was told that he was a friend of Senator Corona, that was probably about all I knew about Moe at the time. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=223.0,232.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: when he announced, did you? Did that come as a surprise to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=233.0,237.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, because it was General, generally accepted fact that once Kennedy let it be known that he wouldn't run, that there would be a number of other people who would run. We were looking at Fred Harris. We're looking at mo we were looking at Scoop Jackson to run again. We were looking at possibly Hubert Humphrey running again, and we didn't know about about Governor Brown from from California, and some and others. But I was not surprised, because we didn't know. I didn't really know those people. I never had served in Washington. I only been to Washington a few times in my life, so I didn't know any of them personally. The only ones I did know were the ones who had sought the presidency in 1972 I was a prominent southern governor. We had a beautiful mansion, and I would go out of my way whenever a candidate came down to Georgia to invite them to spend the night with me at the governor's mansion, and I would spend several hours late at night talking to them about about the most. Taken international affairs, and it was really during that year that, to be blunt about it, I came to the slow realization that I was as well qualified as they were, and I could say that a member of Congress, either House or Senate, had what I thought as a governor was kind of a parochial attitude toward issues. You know, they talked about House Bill Number 1143, and I talked about and thought about how that particular education bill, when put into effect, had its impact on the people of Georgia. So there was a different concept, looking at it from from more of an applied it was an applied concept and and then I also began to realize which may or may not have been fair, that a member of the House and Senate of necessity concentrates his interest and his studies on a few particular issues that relate to one or two committees. And so it left them, through no fault of their own, to have kind of a minimal awareness of the broader concepts that a president has to face. So that's an explanation from the from the completely biased point of view of the governor. You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=238.0,388.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: have to be biased for President. Iowa was your first face off with Mo and with the others, you came in first and Mo Udall came in fourth. What do you think made the biggest difference there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=389.0,402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: my presence? That was a big advantage that I had, that was realized by the other candidates when it was too late. Alex left the governor's office in January of 75 and for me, the campaign for president was a full time commitment, plus some, and I went in one direction. My wife never campaigned with me. She went in a different direction. My mother went in a different direction. My aunt went in a different direction. My three sons and their wives went in different directions. So we, in effect, had seven or eight campaigns going on every day in different parts of America and and we would always get together back at my home on Saturday night to talk about our experiences, to share notes and to make sure when we went out again Monday that we was talking about, you know, using the same ideas. And so I visited personally 115 towns in our and at first I couldn't get anybody to pay attention to me or to listen to me, but I got to know Iowa, you know, I went to hog sale barns, and I would talk to the auctioneer into letting me make a few remarks to the farmers there, buying or selling livestock and those kinds of things. And so I had built up, compared to a wide array of other candidates, a substantial portion of the votes and in our which was still less than 1/3 but when you divide the other two thirds among seven or eight different people, it let me come out ahead. And so I think the reporter from the New York Times, finally, part of Apple went into Iowa, and he went out into the rural areas, which was different from most other reporters, and he began to talk to people, and found out when he asked him Which person he going to vote for, an amazing number, said Jimmy Carter, and he had really never met me or known about me, but he there was a headline in the paper when he finally realized that I was ahead as we approached the Iowa caucus. And that was, that was what gave me the advantage. Then, I was not a good speaker. I was certainly not well known. I didn't know anything about Washington, but I brought kind of a fresh point of view. But I was my friend, and I were ubiquitous. We were everywhere, and the others we had to go to Washington to keep their voting records up today, because it's a handicap for a candidate for Congress or for president, if their opponents say he's missed three fourths of the votes in the last two months, that's a very serious challenge or criticism. Well, I didn't have any votes to meet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=403.0,568.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I even remember that you were ubiquitous. I was you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=569.0,571.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: were everywhere, but people didn't know about all the rest of the members of my family who were campaigning simultaneously at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=572.0,577.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the same time. Did you run into mowing in Iowa? Ever that you recall there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=578.0,581.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was one, there were one or two events there, if I remember correctly, when all the Democrats were invited to make a brief speech. And I think there were nine of us, or something like that, who, who maybe were given five minutes to speak to the to the audience. So I got to know all of the candidates, as well as. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=582.0,601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Next was New Hampshire. You came in first. Mo, second. By the end of New Hampshire, Mo, as well as the press and a number of other people, were very impressed by, as Mo was quoted as saying in candy strouds book how Jimmy won. He was impressed by your tenacity and sheer power and determination to be president. In retrospect, do you think that Mo Udall maybe lacked that same drive, the hunger, if you will, to be president? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=602.0,637.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: don't really feel that way. If you or anyone else asked me who was the most tenacious opponent that you had in 1976 I would quickly say, MO You doll, because he never gave up. But I think that, again, my advantage in New Hampshire was what I've just described to you, and I had full time to campaign up there and other places at the same time. And I didn't have the stigma of Washington because through no reflection on well Utah or others, the Vietnam War, the Watergate scandals, the rep elections, that the CIA had committed horrible crimes. All those things, indirectly, were a reflection on on Washington. And so I came out of a Peanut Farm and a governor's mansion to present a different point of view. Then, with the exception of Jerry Brown, I was the only one that did that, and Jerry came in later. So I had that advantage in in our and the other thing was that we organized what was called the peanut brigade, and literally hundreds of Georgians, at their own expense, traveled to New Hampshire, walked the streets in the Key contested areas, knocked on people's doors, avoided dog bites and frostbite, handed out my pamphlet and said, I know Jimmy Carter. He's been my senator, he's been State Senate, he's been my governor. We have confidence in him when he still votes for me. So I would say those three factors helped me most of all in New Hampshire, and that's where the peanut brigade paid off the richest dividends. I basically skipped Massachusetts. It was obvious to me that Scoop Jackson was going to do well in Massachusetts, and I didn't have any money to spend on TV advertising and so forth compared to the others. So I skipped Massachusetts, and I went to Florida to confront George Wallace. I had some campaign promises from the black community, from Martin Luther King senior from Andy Young from Vernon Jordan, and also from some of the labor unions, like the UAW London woodcock, that they would only support me through Florida, and they made it very plain to me that their primary reason for supporting me was I was the only one that might be George Wallace, because Florida was a very conservative state. And I went into Florida thinking that I might possibly come in second. I knew that Scoop Jackson would be very strong in the Jewish community in Miami and other places. But eventually I came out first in in Florida too. So well at most stayed away from from there. Yeah, he did. He did. And then, and maybe a little bit before that, there was, I think, a highly publicized report that the other candidates were saying, ABC, anybody but Carter, because they began to see since I had won three major elections in succession, surprisingly, I was the one to stop. So they started ganging up on you. Well, they did. I think that the epitome of that ganging up was in Pennsylvania, when all of them withdrew, basically from Pennsylvania, except Scoop Jackson and Hubert Humphrey came into Pennsylvania to campaign for scoop, and all the labor unions endorsed Scoop Jackson and and that was a very difficult late test for me. I won. I think I won all but one county in Pennsylvania, but, but by then, I think after Florida, there was a general consensus that this is a guy we've got to stop exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=638.0,855.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Wisconsin was the critical Do or Die state. There, you beat him again, but this time by only 1% no and then the wee hours of the morning, were you getting worried?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=856.0,870.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah, everybody, everybody except CBS. Somebody reminded me of that recently, because I was in Wisconsin just three days ago, but the news reporters up there reminded me that every network except CBS called it for Mo and the and the newspaper, Milwaukee Sentinel, I think, came out with a headline Udall defeats card, or something like that. It was in one in headline, but about. Five o'clock in the morning, we found out that I had actually won by just a very few votes. As you know, I had, I had campaigned an awful lot in the rural areas of Wisconsin. I basically went from one dairy farm to another, one livestock sale barn to another. And although Mo was very strong, say, around Madison, with the University of Wisconsin there, and of course, the labor organizations were not basically for me, but the rural areas came in late for me, and I finally defeated Moe there. That was the closest election I had anywhere in the country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=871.0,933.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: There was a lot of speculation after Moe lost Wisconsin, as there had been before, but particularly Wisconsin, that if Fred Harris had dropped out, it would have made the difference, and Moe would have won Wisconsin. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=934.0,949.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that's true, because it was so close any any factor like that, and Fred and Moe, justifiably or not, well looked upon by Democrats as to the left of me. I was worked on as one of the more conservative members, obviously a democratic group. Later, we went to Oklahoma and Lloyd Bentsen, who was a very active candidate, it's hard to remember now, from Texas. He and and Fred Harris, who was from Oklahoma, of course, Texas is next door to Oklahoma. They made a major campaign in Oklahoma, and that was Lloyd Benson's big thrust. And I luckily came out first in Oklahoma. Yeah. HARRIS lost Oklahoma very narrowly, but, but then by the time we got to Texas, when Lloyd Bentsen was still accounted I won Texas against Lloyd Bentsen, two to one, but it was mainly because he had been defeated already in the neighboring state of Oklahoma. That's where he spent most of his money, most of his TV advertising effort, was in Oklahoma. And so by the time we got to Texas, he was not looked upon as a likely and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=950.0,1019.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: by Wisconsin, as I recall, Fred Harris was as good as gone. I think Oklahoma had occurred before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1020.0,1025.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I can't remember they were right together, but I can't remember it was about the time of Oklahoma and Wisconsin. I have to look it up in the records that I had been I had been asked a question when I was in Northern New York State, or something about a little community that had an altercation about about white and black people living side by side in an urban in a suburban area. And I said something about the fact that an ethnic group had a right to choose where they lived, and if they wanted to share radio stations say in the Polish language or something like that, that they ought to have a right to do so. And that response about ethnic purity was resurrected three weeks later by some news reporter in New York State, and it became a burning issue that Carter was for ethnic purity. So I came and that was right in Wisconsin, was it Oklahoma time? And I came back to Atlanta, and the daddy King, by then, was my full supporter. So we had a very famous picture made, which you probably remember, with daddy King and me holding hands like this. And Daddy King said, This is my man. And so that tended to alleviate that problem. But that was a hectic time, and as you say, that was, that was Mo's closest. He came to me. And I was hoping that Moe would drop out, but he never dropped out, as you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1026.0,1119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: still in Wisconsin. In Peter Bourne's book entitled Jimmy Carter, he mentioned that you believe that Hubert, Humphrey was encouraging Wisconsin voters to support Moe so that he himself might","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1120.0,1131.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: exactly there was no doubt in my mind that Hubert had in the back of his mind all during the 76 campaign becoming the Democratic nominee. And this was most apparent, as I said, in Pennsylvania, where everybody else withdrew, except Scoop Jackson and Humphrey came into the state to campaign for scoop, to try to knock me off. So it was obvious to all of us who were in it, I'm sure to moe as well, that that that Hubert had ambitions to be anointed, in effect, at the convention, split convention, split convention. And I have to say that that was a difference, too, between me and the other candidates. And none of them really tried to get a majority of the delegates. Everyone that I've mentioned so far thought that they would get a certain percentage and then go to the convention and horse trade to get the nomination. I knew that I couldn't do that, because I was not one of the Democratic Party stalwarts. I hadn't been involved in I didn't have anyone to trade. I didn't have anybody to trade with, and so I. I entered every primary in the whole nation, except with one exception, that was West Virginia, and that was because I was asked specifically about Bob Byrd, something. I've forgotten exactly the details, but I entered 30 primaries, and we went all out in 30 primaries, and sometimes I would come in third, you know, like, like, when, like in Idaho, or something like that, when, when I didn't have a chance to come in first, but I was there campaigning, and Rosen and my children were there too. So my goal from the very beginning was to get a majority, and not just to get a plurality or enough to horse train","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1132.0,1239.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: now at the convention when, when Moe did not, Moe had not dropped out and waited until, until the convention to release his delegates, until his name was placed into nomination. Did that cause any hard feelings between you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1240.0,1253.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, because the day after the last primary vote I got two commitments that put me over the top. One was from George Wallace, who had 260 something votes. He called me on the phone at two o'clock in the morning after the last five states voted, and when I got back to Plains, Georgia in the middle of the night, I had a call that from George Bucha said, wake him up. No matter what time it was, I woke him up. And he said that although I had defeated him in Florida and defeated him in North Carolina and so forth, he thought it was time for Southerner to be given the nomination, and he was releasing all his delegates to me. And prior to that, I had an agreement with Mayor Daley from Chicago that if I won in Ohio, which was the last day, that he would release all of the delegates that had been pledged To Adlai Stevenson Jr, Mayor Daley was supporting Adelaide as a favorite son in Illinois. I beat Adelaide two to one, but he had about 200 and something, folks. So when Mayor Daley and George Wallace both gave me their delegates, that put me over the top. Later scoop, Jackson asked me to come to Washington, which I did, and he released his delegates to me as well. So before we got to the convention, I was way over a majority. And I don't I don't think that that Mo and I ever had a cross word or a lack of respect for each other. I know I didn't have any lack of respect for him. Moe was filled with with honor and integrity and and as you know, a superb sense of humor, as good as I've ever known. And and when he would say something, you could depend on it, he was very attractive to to the voters. And I think the main thing that worked against mo in my opinion, the reason he wasn't elected president is that he he was looked upon by a lot of people out in the country. Is just one of more than a half a dozen candidates that came out of the Congress, and there was nothing there that set him apart, except his height and the fact that he had a superb record, but there was nothing really that distinguished him from from the others who had served in the in the House and the Senate, and by the time his sterling qualities became obvious, I had so much momentum going that people began to look on me not only as an acceptable candidate, but also as someone that candidate, but also as someone that had a good chance to win Exactly. And of course, everybody likes to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1254.0,1425.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: get on a bandwagon once you had the nomination. Did you ever consider Moe for Vice Presidential candidate or cabinet position?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1426.0,1434.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I would have been glad to have him as a cabinet officer, but he preferred to stay in the Congress. He was so deeply involved in some of the environmental issues that and he had been frustrated by President Ford's vetoes or threats of vetoes, and I think in the realm of strip mining legislation, air pollution control, Alaska lands and so forth. Mo was so deeply committed to those issues that he saw that his chairmanship of that committee would be much more valuable with a president who would who would sign the legislation, than if he left the Congress and and joined the cabinet. Did you ever speak about that? I don't remember that, but I'd have to look at my notes. I kept, I kept meticulous diary notes. When I got home from the White House, I never had looked at them before, but when I got home from the White House, I had 6000 pages of detailed diary notes, and I could look up and see the answer to that question. I don't recall, but Mo and I worked side by side, and whenever I signed a major piece of legislation that related to the civil service or to any environmental issue, Mo was always there. I always said some very gracious things about Mo. He always responded graciously and very humorous terms. So we were, we were buddies, you might say. And so far as I know, we never had a difference while I was President. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1435.0,1525.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you assumed office in 1977 and that was, that was, I think soon after that, you signed the strip Mining Control and Reclamation Act. Did you and Mo collaborate? Absolutely,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1526.0,1538.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we collaborated most intimately on two other things that I just mentioned. One was the civil service reform legislation with which Moe helped me, and the other was Alaska lands bill. And of course, those were, I think, the best thing that I ever did domestically, and the best thing maybe that mo ever did domestically was the nilco legislation, which is now, will soon be at the 20th anniversary. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1539.0,1568.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right, that's December 6. I notice you're having a celebration of that. That's true. Mo and John Seiberling had actually introduced the Alaska lands action, I think 77 were you aware of it that early","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1569.0,1586.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: on? Oh, yeah, I've looked at my records on there, because I was up in Alaska this fall, I think in September, to celebrate the 20th anniversary. And I reviewed my notes so I could make a reasonable speech when I got up there and so forth, I called for Clinton to put the wildlife refuge in monuments so that they can't explore it for oil. So I reviewed my notes and Moe. And in fact, Moe would come to the White House pretty often with Cecil Andrus, who was my Secretary of Interior, and they worked by themselves quite often with Cecil representing me in the cabinet. And then Mo and Cecil and I would study the maps and try to evolve some some acceptable proposals compromise.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1587.0,1637.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you are very active part of solutions all along.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1638.0,1640.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think our time is up. Maybe one more question, okay, I've got another interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1641.0,1646.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I'll tell you. I'll go to the last question I ask everybody, and that is, what did you think were Moe's greatest strengths and weaknesses, or what do you think his legacy will be?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1647.0,1661.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think Moe has looked upon then, having spent almost 30 years in the Congress, as courageous, enlightened, far sighted, tenacious, a man of absolute integrity, respected by Democrats and Republicans. I think within his own committee arena, that neither Democrats or Republicans ever looked upon him as being different from them or antagonistic to them. I think he was the kind of leader they respected during the later years of Moe's service. Obviously, we all, everybody of his friends, knew that he was so ill. I think that when the country starts assessing who in the House of Representatives had the greatest and most beneficial impact on America's environment, the unanimous decision would be MO You doll and other issues are Trent in nature, even education bills, welfare bills, trade legislation, international agreements, they're Trent in nature, but adding 1.3 million acres of wilderness areas, which which mo led the fight to do early in my administration, or the final addition of about 105 million acres of land in Alaska to the parks and also to the wilderness areas is something that will last for 1000 years. And I think mo deserves the greatest credit for that of anyone in the household Senate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1662.0,1770.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And Mo has called you the best environmental president ever, with the possible exception of TR, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1771.0,1777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: understand well, thank you. Thank you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1778.0,1778.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: very much, President. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278#t=1779.0,1781.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146496/file/270278/transcript/78594/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/594/original/azu_ms396-007_side1_a.vtt?1744913209","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/594/original/azu_ms396-007_side1_a.vtt?1744913209"}]}]}]}