{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/tq5r786t40/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Gary Fenstermacher PhD Dean of Education University of Arizona"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona Alumni Forum videocassettes, MS 646, box 3, tape 9"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Fenstermacher, Gary D. 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I'm Jay Rocklin editor of the University of Arizona's alumni magazine. Today, our topic is education, the education of young people. And our guest is Dr. Gary fenstermacher, who is the Dean of the College of Education at the University of Arizona. Good to have you with us. Thanks for joining us. Thank","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=68.0,82.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you, Jay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=83.0,83.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, first off, we hear more and more all the time we read in the in the magazine see on TV about the declining quality of public school education. Instead of chewing candy in the room or gum in the halls, we're hearing about beatings and rape and just teachers keeping peace in the classroom. Two questions first, How bad is it? And for that matter, have our perceptions just changed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=84.0,109.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think that, in part, it's bad and that our perceptions have changed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=110.0,113.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So have things that things really have gotten worse than in the last, say, 20 years in public schools in general.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=114.0,119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Our public schools, I think, reflect our society. In general, if we've got massive drug problems in society, they're going to show up in school, if we've got bad crime problems in society, they'll show up in school. What often happens, though, is that gets confused with the quality of the school's performance. I think that in terms of the academic achievement of many youngsters, it's gotten better. But in terms of what we see, when we look at schools, and what happens there, it's no better than the society that those schools reflect,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=120.0,152.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: okay. take that as a given Then, how about in terms of straight dollars and cents in those terms? has our commitment to education gone down stay the same or have gotten better over the last 20 years in terms of percentage of money allocated by any given state to public education?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=153.0,170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't think it's a function of the percentage of money allocated in terms of how many dollars we're giving in 1989, versus how many fixed or stable dollars we gave in 1970, or 75. It's a question of how much does it cost to do the job that society's asking the schools to do given the job that the schools are asked to do that costs a whole lot more than they have far less? Okay, got it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=171.0,195.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: allocation of resources is always a problem. And people complain in cities all over Arizona that too much money is being allocated to administration of schools, as opposed to straight teaching, or for that matter facilities? Do you buy that argument or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=196.0,209.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: not? No, not at all. And we elect school boards, okay, and we ask them to do the job of policing the system as citizens. I think it's the job of school boards to make decisions about whether too much money is going to this place or that place. It's dangerous when citizens themselves begin to prejudge and pre audit the budgets of school systems. Given the intrusion of federal and state policy, the federal and state government putting in coldly one of the consequences of all the policy laws and rules that we have is that we've had to have more administrator","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=210.0,247.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: summons filter papers at work,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=248.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: or regulate or make sure that the policy is implemented. schools don't necessarily like that, and teachers certainly don't. But it's a reality of the kind of environment that we have in education today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=250.0,261.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The nature of teaching itself has changed over the years, though, can you go into a little bit just what you've seen as an expert in education, about the different things that society expects of a teacher today than in 1968 65?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=262.0,275.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Let's look first at the nature of school change. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=276.0,277.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=278.0,279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's a function I think of the nature of the children that are coming into school if you imagine school is a kind of fixed place, and that what happens there is determined by what comes into it. What we have today is a much more diverse population of youngsters coming into it. They represent more different kinds of cultural groups. Larger income ranges, increasing gaps between the rich and the poor differences in background and experience reading experience at home, for example, that affects tremendously what has to happen in those schools in order to educate these children, this change in the nature of the youngsters coming to school, more of them, and more difference among them affects what happens in schools. And that's caused a lot of action in terms of how schools have had to respond to that. I believe, given the differences among the children, the differences in the requirements that are placed on schools, and the budgets available to them. They're doing a very good job trying to cope with it. They may not meet everybody's standards right now. But that goes back to a point we talked about earlier in terms of Do we have enough to do the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=280.0,355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: teachers themselves? Have they changed over the last 20 years? You've been in this business, what, 30 years now,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=356.0,360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: almost 30 years. And I believe that there have been lots of changes, for example, the women's liberation movement has affected the kind of person going into teaching. Teaching used to be advantaged by the fact that the career options for women were not great. And thus, teaching benefited from having a very intelligent, cheap labor supply. Now, the career options for women are greater and during a period of time in the 60s and 70s, we saw a downturn in the academic credentials of people going into teaching. I think that has turned around again, we see many more people with public service, mindset. And very good, very fine people are choosing to go into teaching. So I think the profession is springing back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=361.0,410.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: One question that I've always wondered about that had to do with just what you brought up about American education being able to take advantage of inexpensive but highly qualified female labor force before the women's liberation movement. And that's, that's changed now. We're still cranking out more teachers than the system can hold. Why haven't teachers or schools for that matter if people complain, and the problem is lack of teacher quality and lack of teachers salaries, consequently, really strengthened or tighten the reins on who gets to be a teacher, thereby making the supply smaller, the demand higher, and salaries go up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=411.0,448.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, again, what's going on, I want to go back to some of the things you said earlier, we don't turn out more teachers than the system needs. It goes up and down. And you have to deal with the fact that teachers come into the profession from various avenues, they graduate from teacher education programs, they move and get credentials in different states, they come back to school after years of being out rearing a family or changing careers. And so the way people come in and out of teaching is very complex, and sometimes very mysterious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=449.0,477.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's true, but it's still I mean, look at the economy of it. If you're offering an individual with a master's degree who's supposedly intelligent and qualified $20,000 a year to start a job that's, which is roughly what secretaries are making these days with maybe two or three years experience that tells me there's too many teachers around or that the certainly not a scarcity of teachers around that are willing to take that job, otherwise, the salary would be higher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=478.0,500.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, there's the supply, I guess, is not so short, that you might have to increase the salary in order to get them. But there's a serious question as to whether this society wants to pay the bill of increasing teacher salaries. One of the things about the profession of teaching is there are a lot of them, right? reducing class size by one or two students is an extraordinarily expensive proposition. Taking a teacher salary up by two or $3,000 is an extraordinary expensive proposition. We have to come to grips as a as a nation, the individual states, do we want to pay the bill. It's like that old story about what would happen if the Air Force had to hold a bake sale in order to buy planes and schools had all the money they needed. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=501.0,548.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And that, of course, isn't the what's happening. How about qualifications of teachers? Are you satisfied right now as you see, teacher qualifications, the degree requirements that you require the state requirements, are they where they ought to be?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=549.0,562.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Alright? I believe so. They're, these qualifications are changing. Now. They're getting stiffer and tighter. It's going to tighten up the supply a bit. So I think that given what we ask of teachers and pay them we're in good shape.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=563.0,577.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay. Sounds good. Want to do a little bit with parent involvement this segment before we get out of it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=578.0,585.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Parents seem to be less involved. Most parents, tons of kids come from single family homes where white parents got all they can do to just hold down a job and take care of a couple of kids at home, much less be involved in PTA, his teacher meetings, whatever. Is that a problem? And how much of a difference does it really make?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=586.0,603.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: parent involvement makes it tremendous, doesn't it? It is indescribable. At one time, we thought that 80% of the variance in achievement with children was a function of family background. It's extraordinarily powerful the percent that we're using. We're in a situation today where we can't get that kind of parent involvement. And the problem in schools is, how do we compensate for that loss of parent involvement and educate children to the standards that society expects?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=604.0,635.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We needed to take a break right now. We'll be back in a minute when I asked you about bilingualism and dealing with some of those differences in students that you mentioned. So I'm back in a minute, please stay with us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=636.0,658.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Hi, welcome back to Arizona alumni forum, Jay Rocklin. here with you talking with the Dean of the University of Arizona's College of Education. Dr. Gary fenstermacher. I had the opportunity to see the man who was the star the actual guy of standard deliver Jaime Escalante, but in the flesh him speaking to a group of people and incredible individual. Can one individual superstar teacher really performed miracles or is that like a once in a lifetime occurrence that we saw in the movie?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=659.0,688.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, I think a superstar teacher can perform miracles. And we've got some even some research evidence on the fact that especially in the early grades, teachers can have a profound influence on children. One of the things that I worry about is whether we are regulating the profession and the life of the classroom, that truly remarkable people can have the impact on kids that they used to have or could have with them pass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=689.0,714.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, Jaime Escalante has given us a truly remarkable individual has made an impact. My question, then, is if you say that it's possible for an individual teacher to do what he did and perform miracles, why aren't there 50,000 of them around the country?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=715.0,730.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Why aren't there 50,000 absolutely stunning human beings in any field. They're rare, and you can't stamp them out in a manufacturing process. When there are I think, natural teachers who are can walk into a classroom and do extraordinary things. The problem is that those only constitute maybe five or 8% of the profession. Yeah, for the rest of us, we have to be trained to do the job. And we can grow into some of those extraordinary roles. That's the wonderful thing. I think a good training program, in a good work environment, can often create an exceptional teacher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=731.0,771.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Speaking about training, then leads me to my next areas, what can universities really do to attack the problem of better schools from from two points of view first, helping teachers to be better teachers? Can you teach the teacher to teach?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=772.0,788.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Let me try a metaphor is a way of answering that question. I sometimes think that teaching today is like flying, okay, flying an airplane that that 25 or 30 years ago, when you wanted to fly a private airplane, you got this book called stick and rudder, right, and you read stick and rudder, and you went up and you took a little bit of ground school and, and you've solo went up with the instructor and in solo, but it was a relatively straightforward instructional program. Today, if you want to fly, especially in a congested airspace, avionics takes up so much of your time, there's all kinds of electronic things you have to learn navigation, communication, transponders. It's become an extraordinarily complex environment. That's what's happened to schools, in the midst of all the cultural diversity, the the changing demographics and everything else. You could teach school 25 years ago, perhaps by picking up a book called, you know, chopping board or something like that title. But today, you can't do that anymore. It's so complex. We have by state regulation, it actually the states are decreasing the amount of hours provided to schools of education, to prepare teachers, despite this growing complexity. And because they're saying that that education isn't worth it or or appropriate. I believe that's wrong, but I'm not making that policy. I think that the best we can do when we're training teachers is to teach them how good teachers think. What we typically asked of colleges of education is to prepare them to step into the classroom and become extraordinarily competent performers. We can do that, that you can the job itself. has to participate in that kind of training.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=789.0,901.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about the university's role in terms of forming public policy? With regard to education?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=902.0,906.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes, in the following way, I think the university is an asset that the public has in helping foreign policy. I'm not so sure that the university ought to be in the business of forming public policy. But because our university, for example, is supported by taxpayers funds, I'd often viewed this thing as the taxpayers of the state of Arizona, paying University of Arizona to tell it the truth and can as best it can.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=907.0,932.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Can you give us some examples of just how the University of Arizona is doing that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=933.0,936.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I think, out of my field in water policy, arid lands","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=937.0,941.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in education, how are we doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=942.0,943.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in education, I think we have a much more difficult time. It's much less straightforward, because so many players believe that they have a direct line to the front office of correctness, about educational policy. So we find ourselves not having I think, as much of a participatory role in the formation of policy, because so many people think that they're okay without our help.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=944.0,968.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Should you have a participant more participants were a role like should district one in Tucson are one of the school districts in Phoenix come to either us Arizona State and say, listen, we've got a problem of allocation of resources, we need to cut 15% from our budget, give us some advice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=969.0,984.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Absolutely. Not only that, but take something like merit pay. Okay, all the rage today. It's failed four times in the history of public schools in the past, nothing about the way we're doing merit pay now is different from when it failed in the past. If somebody would listen, that point could be made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=985.0,1005.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We need to take a break one more time. Back in a minute on Arizona alumni forum. Thanks for staying with us in Arizona alumni forum. I'm Jay Rocklin, the editor of the University of Arizona's alumni magazine, speaking with Dr. Gary fenstermacher, the Dean of the University of Arizona's College of Education. We were talking about the university's roles in forming public policy. And I guess I got from your comments that it's the role isn't as large as you think. Either it could be done since still be useful in serve the schools of Arizona. You talked about the idea of merit pay as one kind of thing we could give advice on. I know that you're you might tell people about the Smith project is about another week, and I help schools deal with the problem a little bit if you don't mind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1006.0,1069.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Not at all. As you know, we had a donor who gave a million dollars to the College of Education two years ago, and said that what they Lester Smith and Roberta Smith wanted to see was what we could do in the training and preparation of teachers, to prepare them to help kids deal with substance abuse, and specifically whether it would be possible in the course of teaching to help children avoid dangerous drugs. When we got into this enterprise, it became a huge undertaking, difficult to frontier. And very little money is going into prevention and prevention education of the drug money, it's going into punishment, it's going into treatment and a number of other things. So that we were on the cutting edge of this kind of activity. And because we've been on the cutting edge, I think people have been more willing to talk with us when they've needed help support and assistance about prevention education, because in many instances we've been there first. That's not as typical, as if some of the other things I mentioned to you about the policy initiatives can that's good to hear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1070.0,1139.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Something I promised would come back to, and this is a good time center to do it. You talked about the incredible differences in students in public schools these days. Students that can barely read to students that are near geniuses, people that can can speak English, that can speak English, sometimes even in the same classrooms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1140.0,1159.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Often in the same way,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1160.0,1160.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: often the same classrooms. That sounds like a pretty insoluble problem. Are there solutions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1161.0,1166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It is a difficult problem. And I'm not sure about the solutions we are with this nation has a commitment to equity, on the one hand that is trying to the extent possible to treat everyone equally. While it also has a commitment to excellence that is enabling people to do the best that they possibly can do. Those two principled commitments often clash with each other in our","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1167.0,1191.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: contemporary society, right. They're really an extreme conflict when I know when it comes right down to it in the public schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1192.0,1196.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, it depends on how you want to define this. standard of excellence whether you want to define it as a certain level specific level of achievement, or whether you want to define it in relation to the capacity of the particular youngster, you're talking now one way I'll define it is spending $300 a year on educating the bright student and $10,000 a year on educating the slower students. It. Are you concerned about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1197.0,1220.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, I'm very concerned about that. And is that is that doing the best for society at large?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1221.0,1225.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: This is where I why I think we have school boards and citizen involvement. These are tough decisions. I don't think there are any right answers to concerns like that, you want to do the very best you can, given the situation, I think we're trying to attend more to what we call the gifted youngster in schools. But at the same time, society realizes its own very direct liability from the less well educated youngster who might end up although it may cost $4,000 a year to educate the person it cost $25,000 a year to incarcerate that individual or institution. Exactly. So what you often get is the playing out of public economic policy in a situation like this, where the system of school says, In the long run, although we don't like giving less resources to the gifted, individual, society's burden is diminished if we can succeed with these less able youngsters. That's a maybe a short term gain for a long term loss.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1226.0,1287.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That No, we need to take a break one more time already. Back in a second. Back again, on our final segment of Arizona alumni forum, I'm Jay Rocklin here with Dean fenstermacher, of the University of Arizona's College of Education. A whole lot of people parents have, right children, especially I would imagine, don't feel that the public schools today are meeting the needs of their child their anticipated needs. And when that kind of thing happens in just about any field in the United States, private enterprise often comes to the fore and does feel a need that people are willing to pay for. Is that happening more? And if if it is happening, should it happen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1288.0,1335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think we're seeing private enterprise, it being especially aggressive at the preschool daycare kinds of levels, and in some instances is doing a very good job of it. If the choice and tuition waivers, idea should become policy, we would probably see more aggressive private enterprise involvement in education. It's something that I worry about, but I think it's happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1336.0,1360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I've checked out preschools recently with my wife and the more money It seems that you pour into it, the better you get, you really do get more bang for the buck, if you're paying for it out of your own pocket. And downright I'm willing to put in an extra 12 $100 for my one child's preschool education. And I would imagine there's a lot of people like me that wouldn't mind following that exact same model through at least elementary school, if not, if not further, and you said you're concerned about that kind of thing happening that attitude? Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1361.0,1391.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, certainly one of the advantages of private schools is that the tuition paying parent feels some more leverage or control over the nature of the education. You can also place your child often with a select group of children who can afford that kind of education. And the peer influence can be very valuable. The reason I worry about it is that where does it stop? One of the great congealing consensus creating institutions in our society are the public schools. That consensus generation, I believe, is essential for the maintenance of a democratic government. Without public schools, I believe we lose a tremendous amount of the infrastructure necessary to prepare prepare people to be citizens in a democracy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1392.0,1438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, in the abstract, I bought buying that, and I think most parents probably do. But when it comes to my own personal kid, then I don't know how to answer that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1439.0,1447.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well. Let me try it this way. Okay. I think we have to rededicate ourselves to public education in this country, we have to come to grips with what we are as a nation, and as a society, we have to face the bill, the cost of doing this right, right in the face, and agree that it needs to be done. And that if we can do that, I think we can reconstruct public education to provide the kind of education that you want for your children.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1448.0,1478.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What kind of works been done at the scholarly level about reconstructing public education in general, like in a minute and a half?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1479.0,1485.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It's a tremendous agenda right now. That's called Rican, reconstructing schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1486.0,1490.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So things are happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1491.0,1491.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Let me give you a very quick example the 555 kinds of schooling five days a week. 55 minute periods is giving away too The 666 kinds of schooling the six days a week, six in the morning to six in the evening, we're talking about keeping children, teachers connected with children for longer than one year, talking about allowing children to go through in a in a team base cohort kind of way, where they can gain from their peers and stick with their teachers. A number of changes that I think can do the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1492.0,1524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tucson has school board in her district one override election coming up, I'll take it as a given that you're in favor of that override another override statewide in general, is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1525.0,1535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I believe that if we want to do the kind of job that you're talking about wanting to do for your child, it's going to cost us more, and that we've got to support that infusion of new funds into schooling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1536.0,1548.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And one last question I want to ask you about which I believe you think is a problem is George Bush's plan for choice of schools? What's wrong with that plan? Wouldn't it make schools more accountable to parents,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1549.0,1559.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: if if we could have a choice where children could move to different public schools or across district lines? I think that could be worked out. What happens is if that we have open choice systems, then, as I referred to earlier, that consensus agenda begins to disintegrate and I think that will be very costly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1560.0,1582.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thanks for the comment. And thank you for being with us today on Arizona alumni forum. Please join us again next month when we'll be talking about medical ethics with two experts from the University of Arizona. This has been Jay Rocklin. Thanks","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353#t=1583.0,1585.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1078/collection_resources/73600/file/159353/transcript/37795/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/037/795/original/azu_ms646-038_a.vtt?1652899245","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/037/795/original/azu_ms646-038_a.vtt?1652899245"}]}]}]}