{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/sb3ws8kh7d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Alan K. Simpson"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 3, tape 40"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Simpson, Alan K. (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1999-10-20"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Massachusetts--Cambridge (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Alan K. Simpson conducted by Julie Ferdon. Simpson was the son of a former Senate member from Wyoming who worked with Morris Udall, and then Simpson himself became a Senator. Udall took Simpson under his wing after he came into Congress."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.039 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Alan K. Simpson conducted by Julie Ferdon. Simpson was the son of a former Senate member from Wyoming who worked with Morris Udall, and then Simpson himself became a Senator. Udall took Simpson under his wing after he came into Congress."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms396-039_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2721.768,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/322/original/azu_ms396-039_side1_a.mp3?1744847909","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2721.768,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is tape number 40 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good morning. It's Wednesday, October 20, 1999 and we are in the Harvard University Office of Alan K Simpson, former senator from Wyoming and currently director of the Institute of Politics at the JFK School of Government Harvard University. My name is Julie ferdon, and I would like to welcome you, Senator, and thank you for participating in this project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=0.0,26.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It's a great pleasure and a great honor for a great guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=27.0,30.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Let's begin with just a brief biography. You were born in 1931 in Denver, Colorado. When did you get out to Wyoming?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=31.0,40.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, my mother and father lived in Cody, Wyoming, and my dad practiced law there, and it was the second pregnancy for my mother. My brother was born in Sheridan, Wyoming a year before, so 13 months later, she's having another and I was apparently quite a load, because I'm six seven now, and weighed and weighed 201 time weighed 260 so I don't know quite size, birth size, but anyway, my mother gained about 40 or 50 pounds. And I can't remember that particular medical term for that, there's a term for that, gaining a great deal of fluid and so on. They said, We don't think this Cody hospital. It was a very primitive Hospital in 31 can handle what you need in case there are complications. So the Burlington railroad ran right out of Cody, and you just went out across the depot and got on the train, and there was an overnight Pullman to Denver, and so her father and mother and my dad, her dad and mother took her. It was a rather difficult birth at Mercy Hospital, and I stayed in Denver two weeks at the Shirley Savoy Hotel, and I came back to Cody, where I live. That's my home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=41.0,122.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you're It was sort of an accident of birth being in Denver. But Did, did you? Did it tie you enough to Denver for you to to follow the NBA team the Denver Nuggets?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=123.0,134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, but the Broncos. Were they to my umbilical cord later? No, but my mother often said, when I got into politics, old Al, I'm so sorry that you can't say you weren't born in Wyoming. But I said, Well, I said, but you can say legally that you're a native of Wyoming, and that is what I am of Wyoming. So that's true, but she, she, she was, you know, in a jocular way, that was her, Oh, my dear. Al I said, Good heavens. Anyway, wonderful mother and father, wonderful brother. So enough","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=135.0,170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you went to the University of Wyoming and then received your law degree from the University of Wyoming, also in 1958","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=171.0,182.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: is that correct? Well, I went to Cody High School, and then I was rather incorrigible and got in trouble. Was on federal probation for shooting mailboxes, which is a federal offense, and was on probation, and the GIs were all coming back, and my folks thought, God, if he gets down at the University of Wyoming, those guys are 22 and 23 he'll be in the pen. Well, I wouldn't have been the pen, but maybe reform school. And anyway, so I went to Cranbrook school in Detroit for a year, and it was a wonderful experience. Forced me to study, and then I went back to the university. Of Wyoming as a freshman, and took a degree, and called it Bachelor of Science in law. Was three years of undergraduate, one year law school, and then went to the army. Married just as I was headed for the army, still living with the same woman, marvelous gal, and then came back from two years in the Army and took the final two years of law school, and so graduated from law school in 58 even though I took the other degree in 54 that's how","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=183.0,253.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that worked. Did you play basketball for the University of Wyoming? Yeah, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=254.0,256.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was rather nominal in high school. I was captain of the team, and, you know, all conference and all that stuff, and but we that was good. I was big, you know, 672, 40 pounds. That'll do you good in 1949 and then we lost in the state tournament. We were, they thought we'd be state champs and all that stuff. You don't forget those things. But I was quite a capable college football player. I weighed about 245 and played first string defense on I was a center guard on defense, and we played, you know, BYU and Utah and the big boys and Houston in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=257.0,298.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: about 19. Team 4849 Mo was playing for the NBA team Denver Nuggets, so that it's a different team. Now, were you aware of him at all? Then you were, because,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=299.0,307.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you know, when you're in high school, and I graduated in 49 Well, you were looking at the sports magazines. Playboy hadn't come out yet, so we weren't aware of that, but we looked at the sports magazine. Sports illustrating had to come out, but you read, you know, those magazines, and here would be these pictures. And the one that always fascinated me was how a one eyed guy could play basketball. And here he was, Mo Udall with his eye from a childhood accident. I think it was, I don't remember the details the childhood accident and how the hell he could do basketball with what the key to basketball is peripheral vision seeing, you know, I mean, I can see this finger right here as I look right into the wall and all the great basketballers I ever knew had this amazing peripheral vision. And to think how a guy could do that, I thought that must be something that must be really, that's something special. And of course, then you'd read about them. And of course, the Denver Post was delivered in Cody Wyoming every afternoon, the paper boy didn't deliver the Billings Gazette from Montana, the daily paper because it came on the Burlington railroad. Was the Denver Post. So read about it. Yeah, you bet I knew about him. He probably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=308.0,395.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: told you the story about once somebody challenged him about how can you possibly play like that with the glass eye. And he popped it out, handed it to the person, and said, see if you can see with this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=396.0,406.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I love it. I heard every strip. Well, I haven't heard all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=407.0,410.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you haven't heard that one, but they're all earthy, magnificent. It really happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=411.0,417.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So he handed it to the guy. Yeah, he I don't know","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=418.0,419.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that. He handed it to him, because I think the guy might have been in the stands, but he held it up to him and said, Here you try to see with this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=420.0,427.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in 1961","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=428.0,434.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I said, the all seeing eye, and we need that around here, but all the sneaking","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=435.0,440.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: that's great. Keep an eye out for things. In 1961","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=441.0,445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Moe was elected to Congress to fill the seat of his brother Stewart, who had just been made Secretary of Interior by John Kennedy. In 1962 your father was elected to the Senate from to be, I'm sorry, to become senator from Wyoming. Did your father and Mo ever run into each other at all? Sure, they were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=446.0,469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: because of the common theme humor. My dad, magnificent humorist, and so he went to the Senate, and I went to I was his campaign manager, and went back with him not to work, because I knew, we knew you could, then in those days, hire your son or your wife on your staff, and there's nothing wrong with that. And Dad and I knew there'd be a hell of a lot wrong with that, but I remember that dad knew him, and then, of course, dad was on the interior committee, so he got to news. No Stewart well, because he was always testifying before scoop Jackson's committee. Scoop was chairman of interior, and so dad knew Stu. In fact, someone just asked about Stu, asked about me just last week, and the word came back where it was say hello to Al Stu Udall. So dad knew new Mo, because he would say, God, I saw you, doll. He told me a hell of a story. And that's what they did. They love to tell stories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=470.0,553.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't know how well he knew him. Was that with with Mo that he would tell stories? He thought Stuart was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=554.0,558.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: little bit quite reserved, much reserved, compared to much","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=559.0,563.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: more serious than much and reserved. And Mo, yes, that that's true. Well, in 65 from 65 to 77 you were in the Wyoming State House, House of Representatives during that time in 74 Moe declared his candidacy for the Democratic nomination for president, and ran for two solid years until 76 Do you remember him running? I know your focus is more on the Republican side of things, but given. The connection with your father and all, I wondered if you had followed that campaign at all, only","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=564.0,603.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: as a basketballer, only as a guy who wondered about the guy with one eye who played professional or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=604.0,610.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: AAU basketball and was running for president. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=611.0,612.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and the article is always talked about, you know this man who was a basketballer with one eye. And of course, I remembered the from the Denver Post and the nuggets and and my high school reading. And, you know, I didn't really care much then about presidential politics. I was in the state legislature, very busy, but I was kind of hoping this guy would, would would win. And he damn near did. People don't know realize how close he came, I think, with a switch of 75 or 100,000 votes in certain race primaries, that he would have beaten Carter, no one dreamed that he would beat out. Well, there was five or six of them in the race. McCarthy was it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=613.0,663.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: wasn't McCarthy, but Frank Church. Frank Church, birch by birch by Fred Harris, all of them. Sergeant Shriver. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=664.0,670.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: beat them all, if I recall, everybody but Carter. Wasn't he in the whole total there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=671.0,676.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Scoop Jackson was also there. And Wallace on the more conservative side, but he certainly beat out all the other liberals. In 1978 you ran for United States Senate, and after arriving in Washington, do you recall it all the first time you met mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=677.0,698.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: just walking the halls of Congress, and he don't know, I don't think he knew me, but House members tend to know the senators that come in, because there's only you know a few of them come in every year in that class, there were 2020, of us elected to the Senate, largest class in history of the Senate, 1/5 of the Senate, Bradley, Colin, Kassebaum, Heflin, Pryor Cochran, great, great bunch 11. And we had a lot of fun together. And so it wasn't, you know, several months before I ran across him, because he was, he already had a reputation that if you really wanted to work with somebody, you didn't have to worry about raw partisanship and all the crap that goes with it. Then, you know, search out old Mo, you doll. Well, it was more it was easy to search because they put me on the environment Public Works Committee,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=699.0,766.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and Howard Baker was our leader, and I was on the Nuclear Regulation subcommittee with Gary Hart as chairman, and Mo, of course, was the head guy over in the house with regard to that issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=767.0,786.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So I'm on a conference committee, but we had met long before that. I guess we saw each other. You know, within a few weeks after I was sworn in,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=787.0,794.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you mentioned in your in your eulogy at Mo's Memorial in Washington, DC, in January, you stated that that when you'd come to Washington, MO had taken you under his wing, he did, and I wondered if you could elaborate on that some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=795.0,811.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well he knew my father, and he knew that his brother knew my father and and he knew too, that Barry Goldwater, who was a friend. They were, they were friends, good friends, Moe and and and Barry and my father and mother lived in Arizona, and so Moe knew that I think the first time he came up is how your folks, they like Arizona. Yeah, they do. But he said, I know they're there. They're maybe, I don't know what district he was from.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=812.0,850.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I was in the second district, which only included parts of Phoenix, much later in his career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=851.0,860.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Anyway, to ask about the folks. And then we'd, we'd just tell stories, you know, he would ask me, you know, I'd see him at the State of the Union or something, say, how you doing? They're giving you. They ragging you around. You're in the minority. So I was in the minority until 80. So the first two years, I said, No, I've been been treated right hearts treated me right and bird and doing all right over here. He said, Well, he said, None of us over here know what the minority is. So be interesting to hear your thoughts. Sonnet because, you know, they Republicans hadn't been in the majority then for 20 years, and then finally, 40 or whatever, finally ended up so he then he knew that this was my issue, that I've been pressed into, which was the Nuclear Regulation. And then in March 79 I'd just been there a few weeks, and Three Mile Island happened. But he came by and here I am, franking, remember. And he said, How you doing, cowboy? He got a full plate. Well, he did too. And then don't forget, Babbitt was appointed on the special commission to investigate the special circumstances of Three Mile Island. Oh, I'd forgotten that. Yeah. Okay, so here was Bruce. That's where I met Bruce, and he did a hell of a good job on that. In fact, that commission report you could read today, and it would be balanced and thoughtful, Hart and I did one. I don't think Moe's committee really did one. And what was Moe's committee? The full title of his subcommittee was, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=861.0,961.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: of the Subcommittee on, I'm not sure. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=962.0,965.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it had to do with, you know, the full committee was what it was called, interior, interior committee. Now, to resources, yes, house interior committee when he had it, but he was chairman of the House interior committee. So, so what? He didn't have a subcommittee on nuclear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=966.0,982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, I wasn't aware that he had that. So he took","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=983.0,986.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that under his own wing. He had, well anyway, he was involved in, in energy issues, and, and, and I would, and also involved in radionuclides and radon, these things and uranium, because of production and so on. Anyway, I don't remember the names of committees all. I remember that we were thrown together. And then, of course, as we both had this reputation for humor, people would ask us to both come to some kind of an event together, to emcee the evening, or some senator or Congress would say, would you and you'd all come to lunch? I think Markey asked us once you and you and Mo do my seminar for my people coming here. So we worked up a little stick and drove him crazy and and then we'd go down to fundraiser and tell our usual stories, you know, we'd say, God, you know most great one, which was, you know somebody. They didn't laugh. He said, you said you need some new stories. He said, Hell, I need a new audience. All I need, or something to that effect. Anyway, it was just, it was a very easy thing, because when you have a great sense of humor and you're in the the the ruggedness of politics and the bar barbaric parts of it, you just kind of seek out somebody to tell a crappy story to, you know, and laugh. And nobody could tell crappier stories than Mo Udall and Al Simpson. And so we would, we would, you know, I'd call him on the phone occasion, or he'd call me and say, I got a good one for you. Usually outrageous, and we just that, was it laughter. And then his book came out. I don't know when that was too funny to be president,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=987.0,1110.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 84 something I was going to say 84","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1111.0,1112.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: i Anyway,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1113.0,1118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: see if I have it here? He, no, I don't have it in this file. He,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1119.0,1127.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he, well, anyway, we worked together without going into war stories. I'll never forget the day. It was a testy conference, bright staff all around, something on nuclear, something about something very controversial, and Baker, we were in Baker's office, having the conference committee because Baker was damn tired that we hadn't settled this conference issue. And Moe was the chairman of the House, and I was chairman of the Senate and and finally, after, you know, Moe and I would always start the conference with a joke, we'd each tell a story, and then I'd say, Okay, hurry up. We got to move on. We said, Well, I'll tell you about the one about the guy out on the edge of the river. I'd say, Oh my God. You know, we didn't give a damn. We just tell it anyway. But finally we shook hands, settled this issue. And there was groans, you know, among the staff, because Mo and I had just decided to quit the bullshit, just settle it with the issues were minuscule on the other side, we just said, we just got up and shook hands. Said. It well, and all the members congressional, they said, Well, yeah, great, great. And I'll never forget, Moe looked around the room. He said, any one of you staff people here have a problem with anything we've done, any moaning, groaning, bitching. Well, of course, half of them were just in shock. You know, their favorite issue had been sold down the river or they lost their favorite part. He said, I just want you to speak now. Speak now, because hereafter, there'll be nothing you want to hear. Want to hear everything we did right here in the final product. No changes, no nothing, no sighing, no gasping. God, oh my. It was fun. And the staff, you know, just in shock, one guy raises in Mr. Chairman, yes, yes. What is it? Well, I don't think you can do well. He said, we've already done that. So what's your next question? Marvin, it was a delight, and that was the way he did his work. Fair, there wouldn't have been a soul in the Congress that ever knew him that didn't say he was just exquisitely fair and kind and tough, you know. And underneath, you know, all humor is serious. That's those of us who know humor in its highest form, all humor is serious, and all humor comes from pain. Show me a guy who's a man of great good humor, and I'll show you a person who's been through some very painful times. The people who've never been through painful times have no sense of humor, nothing interesting. Observance, have nothing. Look at Bob Dole, who sat in a dark room for about, you know, 120 days. Look at MO You doll with his eye out. Don't feel sorry for me, but I weighed 185 when I was seventh grader. I was called a lard ass and a fat soul and a pimple faced doing. And that's where you learn humor. Got two choices, go home and suck your thumb, or or get funny to take the heat off of your own. You know, self pity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1128.0,1327.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You know, on that theory, John McCain should be hilarious. John","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1328.0,1330.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: McCain has a good sense. He does, actually, he does see, he does and it, but it's public, yeah, but you see it, and it's quick and it's sharp, but it's humor, and it's in its and it comes quickly. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1331.0,1349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: anyway, a number of people, environmentalists have sometimes faulted Moe as compromising too much. What was, what was your opinion about that. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1350.0,1359.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Mo was as uncomfortable as I was with the 100 percenters. You showed me 100 percenter, and that's a guy I want to stay away from. And I watched that all during my life in the environment Public Works Committee. Finally, you know, we do the Clean Air Act and the Senate committee, and they'd say, Oh, well, let's get this same language in there, and this just toughen it up. And by God, let the coal miners in. They're going to have the NOx and so too. And I said, Do you think you're going to get that past Robert Byrd of West Virginia? He's in your party. I'm not in the majority. You think Robert Byrd, with an entire state dependent upon the coal industry is going to swallow that pile of crap. Get serious. I'd say, Senator, you are, you are one of the seven soot covered slobs in the US Senate. I said, Well, publish whatever you want, but I'd like to do a bill that we could pass. I didn't come here to watch a bunch of 100 percenters ask for total purity and pretend you could get it. God, they'd get mad. So then I learned the easy way I'd vote for the bill. It would be just a greeny bill of all time. You know? I mean, everything in America would shut down, and there would be a rose covered monument on every factory in America and and I just voted for it. They'd say, you son of a bitch. What are you doing? I said, good bill. Hell, I loved it, and knew that bird would be the one that takes the heat. I just said, almost I see you voted for that Turkey. Well, I said I got tired of getting beat up, and I said, I've thrown off poor opposition doesn't know what to think. And then they get mad because Simpson has joined the greenings. I don't join either side. I just said, Look, you got to have quality growth on our terms. You got to people. The best human right is a job. You talk about human rights and all this crap into the atmosphere. The best human right is a job. Then you're productive. You got self esteem. So I said, let's see if we can't do this in a way where we don't be foul. I said, I come from Wyoming. You think Wyoming's okay? Oh, I love Wyoming. Love it. Well, how the hell do you think it looks like that? For Christ's sake, five generations in my family have been working on the laws to make it look like that, so don't give me your paternalistic crap. Oh, Mo, like that, but you couldn't always say that. He liked that tone. And he'd kind of come over and, you know, and jab me and say, God, I like that. You know, I couldn't quite say that or in my situation. And he couldn't, because he had guys on his committee who were extremists on both sides. Anyway, I pro mass all over the place on that but he, he it was during the Clean Air Act. I'll never forget the nine environmental groups met. They were out in the hallway one night at two o'clock, and here we are. Mitchell, George Mitchell, working like a dog, Moynihan myself, bird, all of us working conscientiously. Chafee and the greenies are all out in the hall saying, I said, What are you guys cooking out there tonight? And they said, trying to figure out how to make Chafee and George Mitchell pay for, for for getting this bill and compromising to get this bill. I said, so you're going to go punish George Mitchell and John Chafee, two guys who hauled more water for you than Gunga did. You guys are stupid and greedy and boneheaded well that they all hissed, you know, and grounded and jumped up and threw fingers. But that's why Moe did His work too. He was he knew how to compromise an issue without compromising himself, how to get a crumb when he couldn't get a loaf. And he was good at it. He was a good legislator. And when things would get hot, he'd get cool, and when things were too cool, he'd get hot. He could go both ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1360.0,1594.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How did he and you, for that matter, use your sense of humor in the legislative context.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1595.0,1602.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, you just, humor is the universal solvent against the abrasive elements of life, as my mother said, and humor would just kind of diffuse the situation. And Moe would just say, and of course, I was his foil, and he was mine. And things would get hot, and he'd say Simpson, before this guy hits the other one over there. Like it. Do you remember the story about the preacher, so and so? And I'd say, no, no, Mr. Chairman, Tell us. Tell us. Then he'd kick his head back and tell some outrageous story. And then I'd ask him, one and the other members of Congress picked that up and and then, and then they would equate us together, which was always very pleasant to me. I was, I love to be associated with him. And we would, as I say, do little sticks together, you know, at downtown on K Street. And in his book, he talks about me and how I took a difficult issue of immigration and how, through the use of humor, got a bill, and how I had used that as a legislative tool. That was a beautiful tribute. I have that book with a beautiful, beautiful inscription in it, and the envelope that came in here, you big, Sandy bastard. You know, love Mo, you know, I've kept all his notes. If you've seen George Bush's new book called all the best, the notes he wrote to others and notes people wrote to him, puts a whole new light on George Bush. Was that? Right? Oh, it's a beautiful thing. The one that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1603.0,1702.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: just came in, yeah, it's called all the best I've seen it in the bookstores, yeah, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1703.0,1707.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it's letters from George, and people writing to George, limericks, jokes, you know, Bucha saying this guy drives my ass crazy. People didn't know, see that side of George? They had, they would have been more more drawn to him as as those who of us who knew him so well knew him and loved him anyway. Mo that in the book, I really was quite charmed by that. And I we just, you know, I just loved the guy. He was very special. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1708.0,1736.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was known not only for his humor, but also for his sense of and practice of decency and civility and humility. Was that your experience with Mo pretty much? Oh, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1737.0,1754.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I had, and I don't know anything about his marriages or but I knew that Norma seemed to give him great pleasure. I didn't know the other the wife, I met, those kids, they're wonderful children, and the nephews and nieces. And I don't know the domestic you know parts of that, but divorce is always somewhat bitter. I never heard him talk about any I never heard him talk about anybody. Pull you aside and say, This guy's a real horse's ass. Al, a real horse's ass. I would tend to call, call him aside and say. On a table. That guy on your committee is a pure horses ass, I know. Al, but I got to live with him, and you don't, so don't pick on him and don't drive him crazy, and don't get impatient and don't get testy and snappy. I said, Okay, you know. And then I'd start to do that, and he'd say, Al. So he knew he got to know me, and he was a good influence. But we worked together on a lot of common issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1755.0,1833.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm curious on the nuclear nuclear power issue. I know in your subcommittee you dealt some with nuclear waste issues, and I'm just curious if you ever, in that capacity, ran across Mo's nephew, Tom Udall, who was attorney general in New Mexico, which was one of the one of the favored sites for nuclear waste storage. Never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1834.0,1856.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: knew Tom until I went out to address some group, and Tom was in the room, and he was running for for his office that he he attained here for Congress already never knew Tom at all. And of course, mark the the the congressman from the boulder area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1857.0,1881.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It's Tom is Stewart's son and Mark is Mo son, their","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1882.0,1886.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: cousins. I knew that and but I knew mark through the contacts with with Mo and not. I didn't really know Tom, nor did I know he was involved in anything I remember regarding nuclear waste","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1887.0,1905.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1997 you wrote a book entitled right in the old wazoo, Gazoo, I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1906.0,1912.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: sorry. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1913.0,1916.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, I have that spelled wrong here. Yes, you do. It was less than complimentary about the press, and yet the press, especially in 1976 when he was running for president, was always very kind to moe, and always seemed to like Moe to what would you attribute that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1917.0,1934.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, attributed to the way I've lived too. They liked me. They treated me. I mean, I wrote the book about the lifetime of scrapping with the press, but I was always invited back. I did all the shows I did couple, innumerable times, and the gym, layer and and and and meet the press and all the rest of them. I did those, and even when I was whacking on them, I always had a rule when they're after your butt, answer the phone. So I was always accessible. Mole was always accessible. And this is not a bitter book about the press. It's about the jerks in the press. And there's many jerks in the press as there are jerks in Congress. And when I was writing the book, I'd have responsible journalists. They'd say, Well, we're very disturbed. Why are you writing a book about the press? I said, why? What the hell do you care watch? I they will. I wonder what you do to curb or limit or restrict us. Chris, having the slightest desire to curb or limit or restrict you, just want to stick in your in your ear, I said the call the First Amendment, you wouldn't want to deprive me. Oh, yes. Well, no, we wouldn't want. Well, of course, I didn't mean it that way. You know, Jay, the most thin skinned group in society are journalists. You can't find their skin with an epidermal electron microscope, and they accuse us of being thin skinned holy cries. Anyway, the book was fun, and it's There's Dave Broder who read it, and Gergen reviewed it well. It was reviewed. It was It sold about 30,000 copies and received any royalties yet. But they said, you know, Simpson, you honorary bastard. And Moe loved the word bastard. I loved that when he said, the voters have spoken the bastards, when he lost, he said, the voters have spoken the bastards. Great anyway. David Broder said, you know, Simpson, that book is outrageous, but 60% of it is true. And he said, that's coming from a journalist. And I respect Dave Broder more than and I knew them as I say, I'm not dropping names, but they're wonderful people. So anyway, I did the book and had fun doing it. It's full of stories and anecdotes, and sure, the thin skinned of the fourth state, you know, don't like it and wouldn't but it wasn't directed at the good ones","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=1935.0,2090.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in as Westerners, I'm sure both you and Mo had strong feelings about PA. Public land management issues. Did you and Mo differ on these, on public lands issues at all? Sure, we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2091.0,2108.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: You know, I come from 44% of the nation's wilderness in the lower 48 is in Wyoming. 44% of the nation's wilderness, I'm leaving off Alaska. And continually, the Senate and House committees were asking Wyoming to produce more wilderness, which means closing it off to every other use. And finally, we said, you know, I think we ought to have a Wilderness Park in the center of Phoenix or something. I mean, we need to have one in Cleveland for you Metzenbaum, you need a wilderness area outside of Cleveland, and you need one. You know, if you people are just trying to lock us up, just remember that we have Yellowstone Park, which is untouchable and should be forever. We have Grand Teton National Park, which is untouchable and should be forever. We have Shoshone national forest and the Medicine Bow national forest and the snowy range National Forest. And those are practically untouchable, except you have multiple use so why don't you find new work somewhere and hustle your ass off somewhere else to pick up the next batch of wilderness so the rest of us can eat and raise cattle and sheep and do things that send their kids off to University of Wyoming and just, you know, don't just kind of lay off well, you know, you don't get very far with the staff, the staff of the interior committee of the House would go to Wyoming and, you Know, drink and screw and get out of their sleeping bags and look into the East and say, We should preserve this too. And then he'd come back and just stick new, you know, new language together to add more wilderness, all cut out of Wyoming, not out of Utah or Montana, but out of us that got damn tires to me, and Moe would hear that, he'd say, I heard that, and I said, Well, who are the staff members cooking this up? There was a staff member for a wonderful Congressman named cyberling. John cyberling. That guy was a zealot, not John. John was a good egg. I mean, we didn't agree either on anything, but the staff member was a zealot. That's one who, having forgotten his efforts, purpose, redoubles his efforts, and he just, he was insistent, and he'd keep cooking stuff. We'd look at a map, we'd say, Where the hell did this come from? Can't even remember his name, boy. He was probably married to a tree and living somewhere on a mountain top, smoking hemp somewhere. But anyway, Andy something. Well enough of that. But yeah, and then, you know, you can go punish the Cowboys all you want. About, you know, grazing on the public lands. When are you going to get these Cadillac cowboys? Well, I said, Why don't you go see them? I mean, these are guys out in Orland, Wyoming, who got 30 head of cows, and their house looks like The Grapes of Wrath for God's sake. Not well, and I don't believe that. Well, I said, Well, go see it. Go look. And then I said, and I gotta sit here and take all the bitching from you guys. About 60 million bucks going to grazing fees. Well, I got to give the corn guys 5.2 billion, and the wheat guys 2.6 billion, and you're bitching about 60 million. Get out of here. But I'd say, you know, if you're going to punish these cowboys a little more, you know what they'll do? They go down the county commissioner and go to the zoning Planning Commission say, Ed, I can't make it anymore, so I'm just going to subdivide this area. Instead of having cows pooping on the prairie, you'd have septic tanks. So pick your poison. Well, people pooping all over the prairie, or cows, you name it. Well, Mo could hear that others couldn't, but he would. That's a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2109.0,2336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: choice Westerners really have had to make. Well, sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2337.0,2338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I mean, look at Denver, you know? Yeah, look, look at, look at these places. I mean, just it looks like legions of ants crawling across the horizon. Look at, look at Bell Road 30 years ago that was out in the desert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2339.0,2352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Phoenix is a good example. How about the Alaska lands bill in 1980 the Alaska lands bill sponsored by Mo was signed into law by President Carter. Did you support that bill?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2353.0,2365.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, we were in the majority then. I don't, I don't know how much did, what did it pass the Senate by?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2366.0,2373.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, I don't remember. I don't remember the votes that it passed by.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2374.0,2378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It's big. I think I don't remember a lot. Yeah, I don't remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2379.0,2382.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the votes. I remember it took a number of years to get it, to get it through. Well, any bill that's true eight to 10 years. I think this took exactly eight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2383.0,2394.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think when it finally came over, because we were in the majority, i. Yeah, in 80 we took over the Senate. So if it passed in 81 if it passed in 80, it was a Democrat controlled Senate,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2395.0,2410.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and I passed an 80, and was it was signed by Carter. In fact, I believe that was part of the push to get it through, was to make sure it did get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2411.0,2417.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: okay. I I wouldn't. I couldn't tell you how I voted, but I bet you had 10 bucks, and hold the stakes in my mouth that it was the way Ted Stevens of Alaska and the other senator were ready to vote. Because I felt, how can a US Congress come in and do that. If the state didn't agree, then I would then even Moe wouldn't like that one, if they passed a bill that he didn't like in Arizona and passed it and stuffed it right in his ear. So I don't remember what happened, but I bet my vote matched the senators from Alaska. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2418.0,2455.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he did say the last time that he was in Alaska, they waved at him with all, all five fingers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2456.0,2461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: That's right, because it didn't work. That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2462.0,2466.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Over the course of your friendship. Do you think that mo had an impact on, or an influence on, on your view, on environmental influence, on environmental issues?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2467.0,2478.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, not really. But he had a gentleness. And of course, my old man was always slugging it out with Stuart. So when I got there, pop said, God Almighty, watch out. I don't wish he wasn't there. Then was he? No, yeah, no. Was Stuart there in 79","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2479.0,2495.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: No. Stuart, no, no. He left in 6161 because 154, I'm sorry, you mean Stuart, Secretary of Interior. I was thinking Congress, Secretary of Interior. He was there through Johnson, yes, I think he was there until he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2496.0,2513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there my whole time with my dad. Yeah, Dad was there 62 to 66 so anyway, he wasn't there when I was there, no, I I knew Moe to be a dedicated person who believed in the preservation and he believed in wilderness. And don't forget, Wyoming was one of the few states that passed a wilderness bill in the early 80s, because we had a Democrat governor, Ed herschler and Dick Cheney and myself and Malcolm Wallace, we got together and did a bill and and had it signed, and hell, the other states are still struggling. So mo knew that I was, you know, not trying to do anything. And I knew that, I knew that he had powerful engines driving him. He really had a constituency who demanded 100% of him on environmental issues, and he gave him an honest to 90 or 85 because he wouldn't. He just wouldn't join them on all their poppycock, and some of it is pure, pure stuff. But you know, I guess the influence that mo had on my life was how to do things with fairness and and patience and kindness and with good humor, and it didn't matter how naughty or puzzling the prospect or the issue was, that's what he taught me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2514.0,2605.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Mo was officially diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, and I believe it was 1978 a number of people felt like they'd seen it before. Of course, you came to the Senate around 78 when did you first become aware that he had this disease","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2606.0,2622.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: immediately, because maybe that's what made me gravitate toward him, because my father had Parkinson's and got it when he was 62 How old would Moe have been at that time? But But dad got Parkinson's at 60.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2623.0,2645.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: She would have been in his 50s, I think mid 50s. Dad, Dad","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2646.0,2648.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had Parkinson's, and he was of the age of 6263 and it started with the shake of the left hand and and it's and then the mask expression began to take place, and then the voice begins to diminish. So when I saw Mo, I didn't recognize those symptom symptoms at first, but, but having a dad who I loved dearly and watched the disease effect, I knew that something was up. And then, of course, the worst part for mole was that it moved fast then, and you never know how fast or slow it's going to move. Dad went into voice therapy and had to bring his voice back, and did, but dad lived to be 95 and quality years except for the last. Five or six, and the last five or six were just like, Mo's just laying there, but you never know what's going on in the gear shift in there. And my brother and I'd go in and pop, pop only had one eye. My dad, he lost, I didn't realize that he lost an eye 25 years ago. We'd say, hey, pop, listen to this. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322#t=2649.0,2651.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270322/transcript/78643/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/643/original/azu_ms396-039_side1_a.vtt?1744914737","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/643/original/azu_ms396-039_side1_a.vtt?1744914737"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - azu_ms396-039_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":1073.856,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/323/original/azu_ms396-039_side2_a.mp3?1744847911","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1073.856,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: A side beat, well, the minute I, you know, I was on a plane trip or something, and, you know, and, you know, he was really, you know, this, you know, this, the corkscrew and all the stuff that goes with it. This was Mo, oh, yeah, you know. And it's a, it's a terrible disease, and the hand and but I have as long for that. When I he didn't tell anybody, he wasn't gonna tell anyone, but you but if you knew Parkinson's like I had, you know, watching dad for 15 years, but I figured if he didn't want to say anything about it, I wouldn't, although there came a time when I said, Now, Mo my old man had that stuff. Still has it and, and he's 80 now, or whenever how old he was. And I said, don't forget, He'd want me to tell you this story. In fact, he told me to tell you this story that he said, When you get up and people look at your hand and they're seeing it bobbing around, crawling up that invisible rope. You're just saying, I see you're all looking at my hand there, and I don't want you to feel sorry for me, because I'm feeling sorry enough for myself. That's my drinking hand. I'm spilling more than I drink. Well, hell. Mo said, Jesus, how I use that? And he used it a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=0.0,84.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He really put it to work. That's his kind of joke. Oh sure. When","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=85.0,88.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Janet Reno, I found out, Janet Reno, I called her. I said, I got one for you, Janet. He said, Oh God, I like that. But she's not the same as Mo Udall. She's, she's a woman guarded herself, and I think a great person. I like her very well. Anyway, Parkinson's is the son of a bitch, because you look like you're out of it. You get the mask expression, your jaw drops, your mobility, your rigidity, the stagger, steps, and your mind is just as sharp as it was when you were 45 and it's your dad says, it's a goddamn prison. I'm locked in a prison, and my mind is just as agile. I feel like I go through a football and and, and I'm just in here, and he could communicate that too. Oh yeah. I mean, speak, and, you know, I mean, even when he was feeding himself, you know, peas flying all over the place. And, you know, the whole works, little fork tied to his arm, anyway, and, and, of course, that, that was the hard part for mole, because people who don't know people with Parkinson's, they see a guy they care about, you know, the head just bobbing and going around, and when you get excited, it's seven times worse. And talking, and they are embarrassed to go up and say, How are you or what are you doing, because they're flopping all over the place. And Mo said, Boy, your dad was right. This is a prison because, you know, people don't know how to handle it. And so that was the tough part for him, the decline and but Norma was right there. She was there. And the kids, as I say, I don't know all about all the domestic stuff going over there. Did there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=89.0,202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: come a time where you thought that mo should retire? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=203.0,207.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: because, you know, I never, ever told my dad. My dad was in the Senate and decided to retire. Oh, my God, this the woman I've been living with. We're doing an interview about Mo Udall,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=208.0,225.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: okay, we were talking about whether mo should have retired earlier or not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=226.0,229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: No, he you have to the biggest thing for a Parkinsonian victim is their self esteem and and if he thought that he should stay, I would never have advised him, because I knew that his mental human would be the same, but I also knew that his leadership ability would never be the same, because they can't handle that. Can't handle the startled, the startled effects, startling effects of it. But, but Dad was beginning to, you know, he had arthritis plus Parkinson's, and so he retired in 66 and it was good, because he lived another, oh, he lived another 25 years. And so I could see, you know, knowing how, how Congress people are, and politicians, the Young Turks and the young young wolves, lay in the rushes to eat the old and the disabled as they fall like any society. And so even though they love. Of Mo, those guys down underneath saying, geez, I think, you know, Moe's not affecting. They go around, you know, I think I should be chairman. We love Mo. Now, of course, now he's, oh, he's a wonder and but you know, just, you know, he's kind of sick. Was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=230.0,314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: there much of that going on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=315.0,315.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't know, but I hunch it was because it went on with my dad, the Young Turks waiting to replace the old boars.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=316.0,325.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did you keep in touch with ARS? Did you keep in touch with Mo at all after he did retire in 1991","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=326.0,337.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in the sense of going, you know, while he was when he was retired and and settled in his life to whatever degree that was, I didn't see a lot of him where he must have just been before he went to the veterans home. I don't know how long that was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=338.0,352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He actually, he was in the veterans home at the time he retired. Oh, really, he had forgotten. Fell down the stairs in his home, and he was in the Congress while he was in the Congress, and was forced to go to a nursing home and basically just never came out again. Okay, submitted a letter resignation. In fact, Norma took the letter of resignation over in 1991 who took it over Norma did? Norma Udall from the hospital.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=353.0,381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, well, that's that answers that question. I thought there was an interim, no. Well, then, if that was the case, then I suppose I went over once every few months, I had a car. Big deal. Assistant leader, you know, I'd say, drive over and see Mo, you know, I'd read the paper. I'd go creeping in the back door. I knew how to get in there. And and the, you know, those were times when he would respond, he would he would be saying something that you knew he was saying. And because of pops Parkinson's, I could pick up pieces of it, but I could see the twinkle in his eye. And so, I suppose, you know, I don't know, McCain was amazing. John would go in there a lot. I think John probably went once a month. I don't know who else went in. One or two times, Norma was there. She was, I mean, she was there all the time, but one or two times when I was there, she was there, so she must have been there most of the time, or tried to. But then, of course, it became disabling for her, because they're just laying there. I mean, but the last time was, I don't know, several months before he died, he was laying there, you know, just, you know, I shot television going, you know, that's typical. You know, the nurses all turn it on. I walked up and I said, I want to tell you something. You know, they couldn't tell it. I said, I'm going to turn that television set off and I'm going to tell you the shittiest story you've heard in a year, and there was a little twinkle. And I grabbed his hand and held his hand and told him this outrageous story, and he slobbered, which is the way the old man used to respond when there was something to respond to. He that was a gland that worked and, and there was this great trickle in the eye kind of welled up and, and I could feel his hand, you know, and I said, you got that one, didn't you? You know, you got that and, you know, this little pump. But wow, that's a tough disease, and I couldn't have handled it if I hadn't had a dad that had gone through it too, because I wouldn't have gone by. It's a horrible one. I wouldn't have gone by because I would have thought, Jesus. I mean, this guy is gone, but those last years of Parkinson's, the last two or three years when you've gone to the bed. It was terrible, and so I didn't go again. It must not have been much longer. Hi. Do we have time for two more questions? Yeah, and then I'm better getting on my way. Okay? One","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=382.0,553.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: is just the seniority system. You. You chaired your own committee within two years of coming to the Senate, and then were assistant majority leader or whip within six years. Mo in the generation before, had tried for Speaker of the House when he'd been there seven years, and it was practically he was practically a laughing stock for having done so. Did you and he ever, ever compare notes on the seniority system?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=554.0,583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, yeah, anybody who'd been there used to laugh. I mean, here I was two years there, and the Republicans take over, and suddenly I'm the chairman of the Veterans Affairs Committee, replacing al Cranston. And the mole came by said, How the hell did you get that? I said, just. Trip me at the right time the right place, and then when I was elected assistant Majority Leader of the Senate. The same day that Tom Foley was elected assistant Majority Leader of the House, somebody took our picture. The Press got us together, and Moe wandered up, and he said, the country is in deep trouble. You and, well, Ann can remember many times too, but no, oh yeah. He used to kid me. He'd say, Jesus, you know, what the hell? What is this? I say, well, it's just brilliance and skill rising white cream to the surface. That's what it is. Don't you understand this? This is, this is justifiable. This is, this is eloquence, justified and rewarded. He'd say, Oh, bullshit. He was good because he could blow all the, all the high falutin stuff out of your sails. And he had an earthy his his charm was an earthiness. I could only imagine him campaigning, just squeezing hands and telling stories like my dad. And I remember my dad told him a great one, and or maybe I did that. Dad shaking hands at the plant gate, and some guy said, Get out of here. Simpson, I wouldn't shake your hand if you were jesus oh, he said I wouldn't vote for you if you were Jesus Christ. And Dad said, If I were Jesus Christ, you wouldn't be in my precinct. And just went and shook the next guy, shook the next guy's hand, and that's MO That was mole, just the way he was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=584.0,695.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So we talk a lot about Mo's, Mo's strengths, what? What were his weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=696.0,706.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was a weakness that to others would be a weakness as a strength. To most people is some would accuse that his his weakness was his trust of others. That's not a weakness, that's a strength, that his weakness might be, that he was too kind and never went for the jugular vein. That's not a weakness, that's a strength that he was. Instead of putting the boot on the neck when he had him down, he should have just put the squeeze. That's not a weakness, that's a strength. So every weakness you could define in Mo is a strength to the rest of us. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=707.0,743.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: do you think his legacy will be?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=744.0,747.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, you saw it that day, if you were there in the in Washington, the people that came forward to speak, and the family and the reception and the packed room, and the love and affection of, if we can all remember, and thank heaven. There's an award that goes with it, and I won that award. Said the greatest in my cherished place, in my my my home. Something about how you've given the award for skill and and legislative endeavors with use of humor. I don't remember quite the words of and it's the MO You doll awards given every year to the congressman or senator who exemplifies the best in legislative you know, skill or ability with the use of humor. And the legacy is always and now that son wanders around in there like a specter. I mean, he's a, he's a vision. He's a, he's it's a spooky. It is, isn't it? Yeah, and so there he is. And it will always be in a tight situation, a nasty situation, somebody will say, you know, mate, we ought to do it like MO You doll used to do that. Would be good to remember how Mo Udall used to do it, and that's the legacy that is known in the Congress. Remember how Moe would have done that? Would he, you know, have been fair? Would he have been, you know, helpful, unselfish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=748.0,838.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: But what do you think he would have thought about this Congress?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=839.0,841.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He would have been frustrated, but he would have made fun of it too, like Will Rogers. He would have somebody would have had a press conference, and he'd had some crazy tilt on Gingrich or or Hester, or even one of his own people, which would, that's what you know, he could take he took on his own, too, in the midst of stupidity and what he's perceived as not stupidity, but just overly partisan chemical crap, where you just waste man hours trying to figure out how to diddle Bill Clinton or diddle the other side. Those things never mean anything to me or to or to or to him. And I think he would have just, he'd, he'd have stepped up to the podium and said, Well, he probably had some story about how, you know, somebody saw this, and it'd be absurd, and it would be right. And he'd, he'd portray it as absurd anyway. But to me, it was. Story for every occasion, a belly Buster to break up a tense situation, and a true affection and a self deprecating humor, which was not only charming but but beautiful to perceive anyway. And when I came back from that night in Arizona, when Barry and I and Mark Russell, I brought back the text of my remarks and read it to him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=842.0,928.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that was at the Memorial Service in Tucson. No, I mean, I'm sorry, the tribute to a giant in Tucson,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=929.0,933.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yes, and I had written those out, and it was all mine. I came back and read them to him, shit, he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=934.0,938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: loved it. Oh, good for you. That's sexy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=939.0,942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He said, You know, he was he was able to respond. Could have done this, you know, whatever, but you know, I was reading his responses through the filter of a father that had Parkinson's. So others would say, I went to see Mo, and there was no response. Well, when I went to see mo there was response, because I knew what a response is from a Parkinsonian. So anyway, it was, he was a rich part of my legislative life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=943.0,970.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It sounds like a good note to end it on, and his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=971.0,973.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: great story of, you know, what do you what do you believe you heard that one? Haven't they? You haven't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=974.0,979.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: heard the one I probably have. Well, that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=980.0,982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was the one where he said, You ever hear the story of the of the sect? They all had their white robes, and up there on the river bank, the elders and I got this young, new new recruit, and they took him out into the water and grabbed him by the head and pushed him down in the water and said, You believe? What do you believe? Son, what do you believe? Kid came up, water streaming out of his mouth. Grabbed him again, some big, burly elder the white sheet, pushed him down in the water. Came up burbling, what do you believe? Boy, what do you believe? Now, three or four of those. And the kid came up and said, I believe you sons of bitches are trying to drown me. And he had hundreds and hundreds of those. They were all classics of his time. And he loved the story about the governor, you know, little boy going down the road with everything he owned the back of this pickup truck in the 20s. Guy, highway patrolman stopped him. Said, Hey, old fella. He said, You're going kind of fast, there aren't you? He said, No, I didn't think I was. He said, Well, you were. He said, in fact, you're speeding. Well. He said, I can't believe it. Can't possibly be. He said you were. He said, haven't you got a governor on that truck? He said, Nope. He said, That's maneuvering a smell. And hundreds more of this rich kind like that, enough, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=983.0,1067.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, thank you very much for participating. Really appreciate it. Very well. Thank.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323#t=1068.0,1070.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146515/file/270323/transcript/78644/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/644/original/azu_ms396-039_side2_a.vtt?1744914765","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/644/original/azu_ms396-039_side2_a.vtt?1744914765"}]}]}]}