{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/qb9v11xg25/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Henry Reuss"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 2, tape 50"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Reuss, Henry S. (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2001-07-10"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["California--Belvedere (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Henry Reuss conducted by Julie Ferdon. Reuss was a Congressman from Wisconsin. Reuss became good friends with Morris Udall through Congress, where the two worked together on environmental issues."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.032 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Henry Reuss conducted by Julie Ferdon. Reuss was a Congressman from Wisconsin. Reuss became good friends with Morris Udall through Congress, where the two worked together on environmental issues."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms396-032_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2739.24,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/310/original/azu_ms396-032_side1_a.mp3?1744847863","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2739.24,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Here we go. This is tape number 50 of the Morse K Udall oral history project. Today is Tuesday, July 10, the year 2001 and we're in beautiful Belvedere, California, at the home of former Wisconsin Congressman Henry S Royce. I'm Julie for Don, and I'd like to thank you, Congressman Royce, for participating in this project. Thank you for coming, if I may. I would like to start at the beginning with some biographical information. We'll start at the very beginning. Where and when were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=0.0,33.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: February 2219 12, Milwaukee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=34.0,38.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay. And you attended Cornell University, graduating in 1936","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=39.0,44.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 33 Harvard Law School, 1936 okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=45.0,48.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And at Harvard Law School, you became the legislative editor of the Law Review.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=49.0,54.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Legislation editor, okay, is, is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=55.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that where you first got an interest in public policy","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=59.0,64.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: pretty close to it, and that we we had long notes about a lot of lots of New Deal legislation, including the the i What act of 1935 would it have been the either the Securities Exchange Act or the public utility breakup act, whatever its official name was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=65.0,101.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: now, was that part of the New Deal? Yes, okay. After after law school, you returned to Milwaukee and practiced with the law firm of Quarles, Spence and Quarles, you had some very impressive people there, like Arthur Larson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=102.0,120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, it was a great buddy of mine. I presume he's still living. I believe Duke could now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=121.0,127.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he, he, he was Secretary of Labor under Eisenhower, wasn't he? And then he became dean of Duke. I'm assuming he left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=128.0,136.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And sort of, to his great credit, sort of left the Republican Party for the he did a Jim Jeffords.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=137.0,147.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm assuming he's the same Arthur Larson who wrote the huge workers compensation treatise. Yes, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=148.0,154.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: actually, at our law firm, he did a lot of workman's compensation work, and so he turned out a pot boiler later on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=155.0,166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, well, he that's my field, and he is representing which claimants primarily and and his read","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=167.0,175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the little story in my memoirs about my representation of a workman's comp claimant. Yes, it's my first case.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=176.0,187.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yes, it's a it's quite a field. Well, he, I'm, I'm not sure if he's passed away, but his son, Lex Larson, is keeping the treatise going good. So what field of law. Did you practice","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=188.0,201.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well during my the three years in which I spent 3639 at Coral, Spence and Quarles, it was corporate insurance, a bit of family law, whatever a junior associate in a firm does. And then, after three years, the law business was undergoing the ill effects of Federal Reserve tightening the year before, and the depression was accelerated, so my future there was very precarious, so I took an exam for then A then opening job as assistant Corporation Counsel from Milwaukee County, that's the civil side of county business, and enjoyed two years there before I went to Washington,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=202.0,265.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and you went to Washington to join the Office of Price Administration, is that when was that I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=266.0,272.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: arrived in january 1941 Wait a minute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=273.0,286.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes, January, 1941 What was the purpose of the Office of Price Administration","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=287.0,293.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to control prices, which we did at the start. By. Picking out various sectors, lumber, oil and so on, and putting price controls on them. But we soon found out that it didn't work, that the rest of the economy tilted upwards, and so we put at the end of 1941 or in early 1942 general maximum price control, which covered everything. Then there were exceptions, as need be, sounds","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=294.0,335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: like maybe you weren't very popular among among","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=336.0,339.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: those prices were being controlled. That is an understatement, but we were quite popular among the consumer who, who, alone in our wartime experience, did not suffer from inflation. In fact, he never had it so good or she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=340.0,363.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was John Kenneth Galbraith, working there. Then, yes, had you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=364.0,367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I worked very closely with him and remain his staunch friend today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=368.0,372.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Had you met him before? Then, no. What were your impressions of him? Then,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=373.0,381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: very favorable, tall, lanky fellow who was mainly an agricultural economist from Berkeley and early in my career at Opa, he and I flew out from Washington to San Francisco, which was then a big trip to meet with the indignant independent oil producers on whom we had just put a ceiling. So it was Galbraith and me against a hostile army. Meanwhile, he'd had a bad night on the plane, which then took like a dozen hours, so I had to bear most of the brunt of this. So it doesn't our paths have crossed frequently since then, and most recently, a year ago, when my wife and I and Mr. And Mrs. Ken Galbraith, were the guests of his son, Jamie, who teaches at the LBJ School in Austin for a reunion. Oh, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=382.0,453.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1943 you joined the army and eventually worked with general Eisenhower's Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Forces in London and Paris. Is that, do you think where your prime interest in foreign policy matters began?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=454.0,472.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Undoubtedly, yes. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=473.0,478.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: 1946 you returned to Milwaukee and to the law law firm. Around that time, you became interested in politics, and as I understand it, you ran for mayor","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=479.0,491.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and lost in 1948 Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=492.0,494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What? What? What spurned you into politics?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=495.0,498.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I came back from the war like so many others, including, I think various Udalls, imbued with the idea of public service in general and the avoidance of future wars in particular, of wars and depressions. And so it was very natural that I should become interested and took the first opportunity that presented itself to it running for mayor, in which I came in second,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=499.0,535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a tradition also of the Udalls. Was it well of Mo, when he was second place mo in all the primaries and when he ran for president, yeah. Oh, and President Yes, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=536.0,549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We'll get to that. Yes, we'll get to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=550.0,554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You in 1948 I believe it was, I may be wrong. You helped organize the democratic organizing committee in Wisconsin. That reading about that made me think of Mo who, when he would see things that needed changing, he would he would get to work and start doing what needed to be done. My impression is that's, that's what you were doing in forming the DLC, along with other new Wisconsin Democrats like Patrick Lucy, Gaylord, Nelson,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=555.0,585.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: John Reynolds, Jim Doyle,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=586.0,591.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what was Horace Wilkie? What was the purpose of that the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=592.0,594.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: democratic organization in. In Wisconsin was held by petty patronage types who didn't really approve of the New Deal, but held in there the the old progressive organization of the LA follettes had collapsed, and they had including young Bob had rejoined the Republicans so and young Bob was beaten by McCarthy in 46","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=595.0,635.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: this was Joe McCarthy. Joe McCarthy,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=636.0,639.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so that there was a need, particularly in a state like Wisconsin, which had a progressive tradition, for a party that represented that tradition, and we obviously weren't going to join the Republican Party, and so we decided to take over the democratic so called party, which in a couple of years we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=640.0,666.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So it wasn't established as another party, no orange democratic organized committee. So it was set up purely to to eventually take over the older line Democratic Party. Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=667.0,682.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=683.0,686.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Senator Joe McCarthy was pretty entrenched at that time. I'm just personally curious, what was Senator McCarthy doing in a traditionally liberal state like Wisconsin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=687.0,697.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was a Hale fellow. Well met graduate of Marquette and his law school and became a circuit judge up in central Wisconsin his own where, while I never practiced before him, he had the reputation of being a nice, hard drinking down to earth country judge. It's only after he in about 1950 that he glommed on to his idea of exposing General Marshall and others as communists that he became a menace.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=698.0,745.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1950 you ran unsuccessfully for Attorney General, and in 1952","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=746.0,753.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, in 1950 I won a tough primary. But like all the other Democrats, this was Korea. Time got creamed in the finals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=754.0,764.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, yeah, so you waited a couple more years and you ran, I believe, again, in another primary, a Democratic primary, to run against McGrath. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=765.0,777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: started campaign after sounding out various Democratic colleagues as to whether they wanted to take on McCarthy, and finding that nobody really did. I announced in in November 1951 a year before the election, and campaigned very vigorously, but there was some antipathy to my candidacy, particularly in Madison, which was the center of The New Democratic Party and the nice but not terribly effective. Tom Fairchild, who was then the US Attorney for the Western District of Wisconsin, entered the race against me in July. The primary was in September, and he won that 95,000 to 93 or 4000 it was very close, but I lost, and I promptly supported him, but he didn't do very well against McCarthy. I probably wouldn't have either, but I didn't enjoy not being in on the final","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=778.0,862.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: not being able to try at least now 1954 two years later, you ran successfully, yes. For","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=863.0,871.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: meanwhile, run for the Milwaukee School Board, and done very well in vote getting and so when 1954 came around, and my long time friend, Congressman Andrew B Miller, a very liberal democrat, had over the past six or eight years, been defeated every second time. And come back, he decided he wasn't going to run again, so I announced my candidacy, and after brushing off a primary challenge by one of these old line patronage Democrats, I won the primary and then beat the McCarthy Lieutenant Charlie Kirsten in November and arrived in in Washington in to be sworn in in January. 55","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=872.0,937.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: famous Stewart, and where you remained until 8019 83 Yeah, I was wondering if you were in the same freshman class as Stuart. Was okay, when and under what circumstances did you first meet Stuart?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=938.0,952.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think I met him immediately and and we were kindred, and our Kindred, kindred spirits. He bought a home in Washington, just across the Potomac from our home, and we had several exchanges of dinners or other social events, but mainly we were great pals, and I viewed with admiration his pulling the rug out from LBJ in the Arizona Primary and tossing it to Kennedy, which assured him of what he wanted to be Secretary of the Interior, interior where he did a great job his book, which he sent me a while ago, with which you must be familiar, Stuart, you know book,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=953.0,1008.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: which one, which one is that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1009.0,1012.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: mainly it had to do with his post Washington service for the Navajos and so on, mostly unsuccessful, though valiantly attempted, but in that in that book, he revealed that he was violently opposed to the Vietnam War and that. So he hung on, but only with plenty of internal opposition. I didn't really know that, but that was interesting. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1013.0,1051.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you recall the name of that book? Because I cannot think of the name of it right now. It's quite","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1052.0,1056.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: recent, and ostensibly has to do with his ultimately, practically unsuccessful fight to get the Navajos some kind of a large sum from the federal government. Was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1057.0,1074.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: this for the radiation, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1075.0,1075.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it's mainly about that, but it gave enough of his post Washington career, so you ought to look at it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1076.0,1086.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I will. I was aware of it. I frankly, was not aware it was already out,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1087.0,1090.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Stuart Udall and bibliography and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1091.0,1094.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, I wasn't aware it was already out. So I definitely will look it up. I must","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1095.0,1098.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: have it someplace, because he sent it to me, but I don't know where it is. I couldn't read it now anyway, that's too bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1099.0,1107.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, in 1955 the following year after after you were elected, you organized the freshman debates.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1108.0,1115.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, Stuart was heard from very eloquently, as well as at least a dozen of my pals in the new 84 new 84th Congress and in general, our pitch was, look, we, we really don't want a nuclear war. We ought to try to find some accommodation with the Soviet Union, which would involve the Soviet Union giving up its empire in return for us drawing back in Europe a bit, which, incidentally, is precisely what happened in 89 Secondly, no, we oughtn't to make our Far Eastern policy one of supporting Shankar checks re invasion of the Chinese mainland. That that's a very poor idea. We ought to give that up. Well, that finally was done in 73 but it was quite radical stuff at the time. We also were for more foreign aid and more respect for the UN but it was a debate from which I do not now shrink. I'm like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1116.0,1202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: possibly some others, some others, especially now perhaps, and Stuart was was quite an active","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1203.0,1208.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes. He remember they might look at the Congressional Record for, I think, March 14, 1955 to see what he said. But basically, I think I remember us talking mainly about, look, we may be freshmen, but we have a right to be heard. And who better than us? Freshmen can throw a little new light on old problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1209.0,1238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's so true, too. It's so true. How often did you meet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1239.0,1244.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, this, this later developed into the D, the D, D, S, G, democratic study group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1245.0,1255.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, so, so the freshman debates were the forerunner of the Democratic study group. Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1256.0,1259.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the debaters were largely people who later led, formed and led the GSG, plus a couple of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1260.0,1277.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a few non class of 84 mildly senior guys like Gene McCarthy Metcalf of Montana, that's about it. And and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1278.0,1292.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you and Stuart were, were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1293.0,1295.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, also active were frank Thompson, who later was betrayed by his alcoholism into that disgraceful episode with the FBI bribers for which he served time and ended his career. Who else were? John blotnik of Minnesota,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1296.0,1334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: now, did the did the democratic study group basically start with the where the freshman seminars left off and and meet on a regular basis, or what was its purpose? We started","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1335.0,1346.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: because of the so called Southern manifesto, signed by all the Dixiecrat Democrats, all the Southern Democrats, except one or two in you'll have to supply the date. I believe it was 56 or 57 went up, and their pitch was segregation forever. And we decided there needed to be some opposition to that within the party. So that really was the genesis of our movement. We also wanted to overthrow the reactionary rule of people like judge Smith on the Rules Committee, which was finally achieved in the early 1960s so it sort of steward was not there at the kill because he'd moved to the Interior Department, but he was a very active","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1347.0,1407.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so it moved from initially sort of a foreign policy focus to a civil rights focus to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1408.0,1413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not really, it just happened that the same people who joined in the freshman debate, having gotten to know each other better, also joined in forming a year or two later, the DSG over a specifically domestic issue. And that has continued, has it not the DSG continued, but it's lost most of its own for one thing, the Southerners, all Democrats, all either were beaten or deserted. The Party became Republicans. So today, the Democratic Party in the House, except for a few things, like Mr. Condit is quite liberal, so that you really don't need the DSG. And I don't know what it amounts to nowadays.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1414.0,1478.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1479.0,1480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think the Democrats under the current leadership are abundantly literal liberal. They include the powerful Black Caucus and so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1481.0,1494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it just simply may not be needed anymore for the purposes for which it was found. Yeah. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1495.0,1499.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: shouldn't write them off, because I really don't know what they're doing, just like the March of Dimes finally conquered Polio. But that didn't stop to get right on marching for many years and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1500.0,1514.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: still do and still do in 1957 only a few years after becoming a member of Congress, you came up with an idea that has surely changed the world for the good you. You came up with the idea of an overseas service corps, which eventually became the Peace Corps. What's what sparked this idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1515.0,1540.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I set this forth in my book at some length, but it was mainly my round the world trip or junket. The first I took with the Subcommittee on Foreign Affairs of the Government Operations Committee, headed by the excellent Porter Hardy of Virginia, in which in many countries, but particularly in Cambodia, I observed the wrong things we were doing, big super highways and steel mills and the right things which a few volunteers were doing, ie Peace Corps, type, village work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1541.0,1589.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I should mention that your book is, is called, when government was good, published in 1999 is that correct? I remember reading in there that that the Chicago Tribune wrote an editorial on the idea denouncing it as, quote, unquote, another silly idea from Congressman rice. I hope","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1590.0,1610.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: one of my favorites that's just amazing, who have become more relaxed in recent years good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1611.0,1619.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I doubt that many people know that the Peace Corps idea originated with you. It's so long been associated with President Kennedy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1620.0,1628.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: How did in my book? Again, I quote from a letter that Tris coffvid, who was a well known Washington columnist in those days wrote quite recently that 1990 explaining how he had sat down with Kennedy in June 1960 right at the start of the campaign, saying, Look, Congressman Royce has had a great idea. You ought to adopt it and make a speech about it, which Kennedy then did at Ann Arbor in August 1960","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1629.0,1677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and did you write the original legislation for the Peace Corps I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1678.0,1681.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wrote and got past the legislation setting up a study funded by the US government to be done by a private organization. In fact, it was Harvard and Colorado State which did it to explore exactly the format of a proposed volunteer service group. And after some tribulations, I got that passed in september 1960 and Eisenhower signed it. So then a study was made, which really followed what I've been saying and writing, and it put in the bill. Should it be the occasion for a draft exemption? Leave it to the local draft boards. I say. Should people be paid just to bear subsistence? How long should it be? Two years? Et cetera, et cetera. I tried, at a series of conferences to answer all the problems that I foresaw. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1682.0,1773.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you work directly with President Kennedy on this at any point?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1774.0,1780.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, well, immediately he won the election, he appointed Sergeant Shriver, his brother in law, to start the Peace Corps on an executive order basis without any legislation. Legislation which was perfectly feasible, and I saw a lot of Shriver Bill Moyers and others, and Kennedy in sending his message to the Congress, credited me and Hubert Humphrey. Now, Hubert was a was a considerable cow bird, legislatively, in that he loved to take somebody else's idea and make it his own, or at least his staff did. That was easier than thinking something up themselves. And Hubert got aboard the bill, which I'd introduced in January, in late June. So while I don't begrudge him part of the credit, he's gotten most of the credit as the inventor of the piece for which, what the hell?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1781.0,1865.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, nice to set the record straight though,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1866.0,1871.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in night, his son Hubert skip Humphrey, whom I like very much, once told me that he he thought it was kind of a discretible act by his father to become a God, if of the Peace Corps. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1872.0,1891.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: interesting that he would, he would volunteer that information exactly when, when Kennedy took over office, was elected in 1960 and we touched on this earlier. He selected Stuart Udall as his secretary of interior. Moe Udall, his brother, ran in a special election in Arizona to take over his brother's seat, and was elected. Had you met Laura before then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1892.0,1923.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I met him only on his arrival, when I think either he or Stuart gave him and his wife a welcoming party with drinks in must have been Mo's office, I'm not sure, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1924.0,1944.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it was in one of their offices, okay? And that was for just get acquainted, get acquainted with friends of Stewart's and new","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1945.0,1955.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I became a good friend of Mo's. Uh. He was on a different track. He was an interior western man, and I was an economic and to a minor degree, foreign policy type. So our paths weren't very close. Our friendship was good. We had a great debate, he and I arranged by somebody in the huge and well attended caucus room in the cannon building in sometime in the mid 60s in which he espoused the Central Arizona Project, and I indignantly opposed it. It was good humored, and I I recall most saying, in effect,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=1956.0,2018.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: see, I'm still hooked up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2019.0,2020.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, go ahead and continue","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2021.0,2021.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to tell you about our great debate in a packed caucus room in which steward, holding his hand about a foot from the floor and gazing up at the 30 foot high ceiling, said, Look, all that this dam will do is cover this little bit of the Colorado River. My answer was, that's a little bit too much. The debate was friendly and inconclusive, but he did, incidentally, a conservation writer named Michael from,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2022.0,2070.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yes, it does. I've heard his name. Wrote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2071.0,2071.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: me recently. He's an old friend of mine that mo yud Al had since publicly recanted on his central Arizona project and said it was all a great mistake on his part, I presume from wouldn't have said so if that weren't true, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2072.0,2091.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: think from, from my interviews and just talking, talking with people, there's a Trent. This amount of regret about the Central Arizona Project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2092.0,2102.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The guy was from Arizona. I'm for beer, you know, Wisconsin, so it never bothered me at the time have him elected and abortively try to flood out the Grand Canyon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2103.0,2116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, the central Arizona project went through Congress and and only recently, Tucson is now getting water from the Colorado River. They opened. They began it a couple of years ago, and because of the different chemistry of it, it, it took all the rust out of pipes, so people were getting orange water. So they stopped it, but they've just started again this year, mixing it so it's a reality. Mo won. No, he won. It wasn't just Mo, it was the entire Arizona delegation. Barry Goldwater was strongly behind it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2117.0,2153.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: John has it done to the Colorado","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2154.0,2158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you know, they built a canal across Arizona, I think the worst part was flooding some really beautiful, beautiful canyons, and with them some major archeological sites,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2159.0,2171.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: doesn't it also reduce the Colorado to a trickle downstream. There's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2172.0,2175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: not much left of it downstream when it gets to Mexico, exactly,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2176.0,2180.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I trust I voted against it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2181.0,2183.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I'm, I think I'm, I think I'm correct in saying that Barry Goldwater regretted it. I know Moe regretted it. Stewart regretted it. And I believe John Rhodes has also, but I'm not sure in his case, John Rhodes, former Minority Leader of the House, who was also from Arizona, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2184.0,2204.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: said that takes care of all protagonists. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2205.0,2208.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I interviewed representative Sam Steiger of Arizona a week or two ago, and he said the same thing. So a lot they did believe it was the best thing at the time. It's one of those 2020 hindsight, and it went on much longer and cost much more than anybody expected. You had a great deal of foresight. What were your impressions of I rather","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2209.0,2231.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: liked him. Oh, so he, he was, he wants to. He once shot a burrow, which gave him some bad publicity, and also at a time when the Democrats, well Congress particularly, was sensitive to charges of corruption and do nothing ism, particularly after Some of these scandals, Wilbur mills and the reflecting pool and so on. Sam made a public statement to the effect that congressmen were a bunch of no gooders, and I happened to be in the elevator answering a roll call with with about a dozen colleagues, and Sam among them, and one of my colleagues said, what did he What did He say, Steiger, you're not her asshole for for denigrating US colleagues of yours. And staggered said, Well, I've since issued a statement, taking it all back. And I then put my hand on his shoulders and said, I here with bestow upon you the title of anus emeritus that was an opportunity not to be missed. That's excellent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2232.0,2326.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But he was quite a character. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2327.0,2328.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I got weird though he was I got along fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2329.0,2341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Let's see. We keep keep getting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2342.0,2348.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that's the central Arizona debate. Then I shall try to pick up all contact points with mole. Please do and other than being friends and always with Mo's various wives, always my wife and I would enjoy his hospitality when he lived in Cleveland Park, and later when he lived in Virginia. So, so, but, but it was mainly social, because while we worked closely together in the DSG, that was about it then came the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2349.0,2394.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, did you so you you met Mo and his wife, Pat his first. Wife on a social basis, you and your wife,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2395.0,2402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, several times, not, but I remember visiting or having a meal at their home. I can still recall in Cleveland Park, right opposite Grover Cleveland's charming old home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2403.0,2421.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What were your impressions of Pat Udall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2422.0,2428.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Very favorable. She seemed like a handsome and nice person. And what were you didn't know her very well. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2429.0,2435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: were your what were your first impressions of Mo especially having known his brother first,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2436.0,2441.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a worthy brother, politically about the same, perhaps With a better collection of stories that wasn't steward","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2442.0,2461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but otherwise very similar. Moe deservedly has a great reputation as a Mark Twain like character. So did, so does Stewart, as far as that goes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2462.0,2476.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, Moe worked on it quite a bit. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2477.0,2479.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had little cards with old and good jokes on them, and had very good delivery, and a very good delivery, many self deprecating like, he introduces himself and says he's running for president, and the guy says, Yeah, we were laughing about that only this morning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2480.0,2500.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's that's probably his most famous one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2501.0,2503.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So anyway, just to hit those points, then came the time in the late 60s, I believe you can supply the date when he said, Henry, can you help me? I'm announcing my candidacy for Speaker against John McCormick, do you recall the date in that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2504.0,2522.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes, I do. I think it was 68","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2523.0,2526.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that sounds plausible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2527.0,2529.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, he had preceded it. In 1967 he sort of took on the seniority system very early. And in 1967 he led an effort to unseat Adam Clayton Powell from his committee seat. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2530.0,2546.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: didn't help him in that because I thought Adam was simply following the white folks larceny and was one hell of a speaker and a good fighter. So I just can't remember mo taking the lead and displacing the Schwarze. But it wasn't a very good idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2547.0,2572.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He He led the move to remove him as committee chair, but not to remove him from the house, which he actually disagreed with moving him from the house, yeah, in 1968 Moe. Moe led this unprecedented","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2573.0,2590.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now, John. One, I admire John McCormick. Secondly, he was awfully good to me. I um, thirdly, when my son Mike was falsely accused in Mississippi, he was a freedom type in 1965 and I flew over from England, where I then was down to Mississippi to see that he wasn't harmed. When I got back, McCormick, who was residing, beckoned me over and handed me the gavel, which was a nice solidarity thing to do. So I told Mo, look, I can't support you in this. I didn't do anything in the election other than vote for McCormick. You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2591.0,2644.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: didn't actively campaign against him. He didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2645.0,2648.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: get many votes. I don't think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2649.0,2651.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was this entirely his own decision.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2652.0,2655.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: As far as I know, it certainly wasn't mine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2656.0,2659.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In two years later, he ran in 1974 Majority Leader against Hale Boggs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2660.0,2670.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I must have voted for him then because Hale Boggs, who had been very friendly and supportive of me from the day I arrived, and being on the Ways and Means Committee, his support was helpful. And among things like, I saved Harley Davidson, you know, the motorcycle in my district from early death through a bill which hail got. Through for me and after I voted for a mole must have been an open vote, because Hale knew how I had voted, or maybe I just had to tell him, he Hale reproached me, saying, Look, I've done a lot for you. You might have voted for me, which was embarrassing, one of those things you have to do. But I'm sure I must have voted for Mo, because otherwise Hale would not have, would not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2671.0,2731.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: have said that approached me was was the Democratic study group in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310#t=2732.0,2734.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270310/transcript/78629/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/629/original/azu_ms396-032_side1_a.vtt?1744914338","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/629/original/azu_ms396-032_side1_a.vtt?1744914338"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - azu_ms396-032_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2708.328,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/311/original/azu_ms396-032_side2_a.mp3?1744847865","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2708.328,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, we're on the next big contact now in then, I successfully broke the seniority system at the start of the new Congress in january 1975 I deposed Wright Patten as chair of the banking committee when I was number four on the committee. So it took some doing. Mo must have been for me, but I never as asked him for his support, but I'm sure he was, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1.0,47.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: would be hard to believe that he wasn't given, given how he felt about those things. So the seniority, so the seniority system began to crumble a little bit under, under this pressure from the Young Turks, who had Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=48.0,64.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The first to fall was judge Smith and the Rules Committee, an important forward step. And then came the revival of the Democratic caucus and steering committee, an important structure, and then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=65.0,84.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what led to Chairman Smith,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=85.0,88.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think Kennedy got behind his his ouster. He was ousted early on. McCormick had something to do with it too, which is why I like McCormick.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=89.0,106.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Were you aware at all of I have heard that McCormick never quite forgave Moe for running against him and actively worked against him for majority leader is, is that anything you're aware of, or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=107.0,118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't think he was vindictive. He used to call Moe Maurice, making an Irish Catholic. I had no feeling that he was doing the dirty tomorrow. He would have supported Boggs because Boggs head seniority, was the heir apparent and was a liberal southerner. I should have supported him really,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=119.0,158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: backing up, backing up a little bit to 1968 again, in your in your biography, your 1999 book you, you referred to the Vietnam War as, surely the saddest chapter in the history of our country. Mo was one of the very first members of Congress to come out publicly against the Vietnam War. Was that anything you ever discussed with him or were even aware of at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=159.0,192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think my answer has to be No, which simply indicates that we weren't. Daily confidence. We each were on different tracks. Exactly, when did mo come out against the Vietnam War? 1968, 68 right? Ike. Well, I came out in in late 67 by supporting publicly Gene McCarthy. So mo came out a few weeks later. Yeah, he, I think McCarthy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=193.0,243.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't think so. I don't believe he did. I don't believe he he actively supported him. No, his brother Stuart was, was a member of Johnson's cabinet at the time, and that was a good reason not to. And as you said, Miss your your book, that Johnson could be autocratic at times. Do you think that Mo's announcement would have, would have hurt either Stewart's relationship with with Johnson or Mo's relationship with Johnson?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=244.0,276.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yes, I could. I can, I can see Johnson at his earthiest, chewing them off and maybe firing Stewart. And you mentioned","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=277.0,289.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a little while ago having heard from Stuart, or was it in his book that where he said he was very against the Vietnam War. In his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=290.0,298.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: book, The. Though I also he called me up just to say hello about a year ago, vowing to come up here, which he hasn't yet done. You can remind him I will do so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=299.0,318.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: let's see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=319.0,320.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So then it's 75 as I say, I'm sure Moe was for me in my internal fight. Then two years later, Jimmy Carter, oh no. Two a year later, Moe egg Don by Congressman Obi myself and others, but largely Obi and me announced for the the presidency. I think Jimmy Carter was out there, but Moe announced, well, that was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=321.0,357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that was, I believe, I believe that was approximately two years before. So it would be, I believe, in 1974 so that you and fellow Wisconsin Congressman Dave Obie encouraged Moe to run, and passed a petition among other members of Congress urging Moe to run for the presidency. One thing I've always been curious about is how that petition got started. Who drafted it? Where'd the idea","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=358.0,388.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: actually start? Must have dreamed it up. Have you interviewed? OB, yes, I did. Does he I just don't remember if he claims exclusive authorship? Oh, not at all. He should get it. No, not at all. I certainly it's the kind of thing we would have done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=389.0,406.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, he, I believe he said he wasn't sure where the idea first originated, whether it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=407.0,415.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was sort of both of us, wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=416.0,416.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and and where was Moe on that at the time? Now, he had considered, certainly considered running the president, and he didn't mind a bit. Was he aware that you were going to pass the competition? Uh huh. Probably must have been. But you, you all wrote it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=417.0,440.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: or I don't remember, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=441.0,445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Do you remember someone on Moe's staff named Terry Bracey,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=446.0,449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yes, who is now head of the uda foundation? Yes, a very good staffer and a nice guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=450.0,457.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did you have much contact with him during that time. Remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=458.0,462.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: him favorably. Was he your boss for while? Were you there when","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=463.0,468.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was in the congressional office, he and John gabusi were both sort of my boss. They were both the legislative assistants. You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=469.0,476.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and I never met, or did we I don't believe we formally","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=477.0,480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: met. I think I saw you in the office a couple of times, but I was over at the campaign office by then. How realistic was it for a member of Congress to run for president?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=481.0,499.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The record is not particularly good, but no senator was seemed to be on the horizon, and being a member of Congress is certainly better than being a notary public. So what are the drawbacks? The record isn't very encouraging. After most","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=500.0,524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: defeat. What are the drawbacks of running for Congress from the house?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=525.0,528.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You're one of several. One is you're likely to lose your seat in Congress. Secondly, you're one of 435, rather than one of 100 big difference. Thirdly, you don't represent a whole state, except in rare cases,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=529.0,548.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and that would have, that would have an effect with fundraising, yeah, I would imagine, uh huh. Did you go on the campaign trail? Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=549.0,562.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well as just to recollect my contact points after Obi and I and others had urged him to run and after he'd announced, when did he announce? You know he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=563.0,575.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: announced? I know it was two full years before the election. It was the earliest anybody in September 64 it was, I think it was, I want to say, November 1974","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=576.0,586.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: 74 he needed to raise some money, and I went to the usual the. Liberal Wisconsin fundraiser who had a large home near Milwaukee, and said, Why don't you do this for my friend Mo? And he said, and his wife said, Well, why don't you do it? You've got a home. And I had to admit there was a certain logic to that. So my wife and I gave at our large and comfortable home in the country an inheritance from my family, which I've since sold. We gave a very successful fundraiser for Moe, at which, among other things, He dedicated the first Electricity Generating windmill, which I had installed. Oh, great, with much gusto, and it was a very good party with beer and bratwurst to eat and hand a Polish band and poking. So that was quite a success. Shortly afterwards, when the snow was on the ground, Dave Obie and I took him this may have been a waste of time through the ice age, what was to become the Ice Age National Scenic Trail throughout Wisconsin, and We posed for photos on the trail, probably, in retrospect, it was three hours without adequate payoff, but it was my ideas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=587.0,711.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: well, and it's something I would imagine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=712.0,714.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it's like Bucha is going to the Giant Sequoias, except you don't really like, well, it's something","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=715.0,721.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was going to say that Moe would have really enjoyed, I think would have really wanted","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=722.0,726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: to see presented, the fact that there was not a huge crowd there. You couldn't get one to go out there. Then Obi and I were very active in his campaign in Wisconsin, and as I say in my in my book, it looked early in the evening as if Moe was going to carry Wisconsin. In fact, he went from his room in the hotel Schrader down to the ballroom, urged on by some of his supporters. Obi and I held back because the precincts not heard from tended to be rural evangelical precincts, and we knew that Jimmy Carter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=727.0,774.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: would do very well there do well there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=775.0,777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so narrowly lost and on the plane back to Washington the next day, it was filled with jubilant Georgians who come up to campaign for Jimmy I continue to work for Moe, notably, doing a lot of stops in upstate New York, some in Pennsylvania, some in Maryland. All I'm afraid, ending up in the MOE coming in second column in New York. I work closely with Moe, staunch supporter young Harold Ickes, who to whom fate has since dealt an unhappy set of cards in that he was the fall guy in the Clinton administration and So on, inadequately recognized and rewarded. I was his friend because his mother, Mrs. Harold Ickes, since deceased, had been an old girlfriend of mine, whom I admired very much. So it was natural that the kid and I should get together, but we were not a success in New York. There you are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=778.0,865.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The Wisconsin primary was probably Mo's greatest chance of winning a primary, and he lost it, I believe, by only 8000 votes, or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=866.0,880.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You don't know out of how many?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=881.0,882.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I don't know how many, but it was very close. I want to say it was, it was 200 and something 1000 that each that he encountered, each had like 250,000 versus 260,000","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=883.0,896.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's what there should be, yeah. But at 8000 Not worth a recount, but very close, but very, very close indeed. Why would have changed everything? Because after that, opportunists like the mayor of Detroit and the auto workers, Woodcock signed up with Carter, and that's why he lost Michigan, and in every state, there was some damn reason why he was ill fated. It wasn't that he didn't put on a good campaign, and he certainly did everything that Obi and I suggested he do. What do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=897.0,937.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you think the problem was in Wisconsin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=938.0,945.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think it was Jimmy Carter's superior organization, obviously, Obi and I should have worked harder. We should have worked full time at it. Well, we sort of let Mo's organization do it. Nobody asked us to work any harder than we did, but we perhaps should have pushed them aside, pushed you aside, and said, Look, we'll take over. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=946.0,981.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you know the people working in Wisconsin and Mozambique? I knew","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=982.0,988.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the charming daughter of the great historian, woman historian, Jessica Tuckman. Jessica Tuckman,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=989.0,998.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Bob Bedard, does that name ring? A ring about Okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=999.0,1004.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He had, he obviously had his best campaign staff. There was Stewart, his campaign manager,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1005.0,1014.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, was the campaign chair, and the campaign itself had several campaign managers. There was John gabusi, Jack Quinn, and to some extent, martila and Kylie at one point, and to some extent Stuart, martila and Kylie. They were a firm from Boston. But Were you familiar at all with Jack Quinn or John gabusi? No. Now, one of the one of the things in Wisconsin New York was the New York primary was held the same day as Wisconsin, and from what I recall, it was pretty well conceded that Jackson was going to win it. And I just wonder, had, did he Yes? Should Moe state out of New York. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1015.0,1061.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: don't know that wasn't my decision. If it was the same day as Wisconsin, obviously my campaigning in New York, which included Ithaca, Elmira Corning, Binghamton, Erie, Pennsylvania, across the border, buffalo, Jamestown, possibly Schenectady. I really worked it, but I was just doing my duty. Sorry, Mo, can't be with you today, but here's the word. What other members of Congress. What happened in New York? Jesse Jackson won.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1062.0,1104.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was Scoop Jackson. Scoop, scoop Jackson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1105.0,1108.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, he won. I believe so. I'll bet he got the Jewish vote,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1109.0,1112.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and he had put he had campaigned there for a very, very long time, I believe, and spent a lot of money there. He was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1113.0,1121.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a mensch because he kept advocating moving our embassy to Jerusalem. But that must have been it. I would have told Moe to claim that udel was a Jewish name supporters in Milwaukee. Thought,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1122.0,1149.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: what other members of Congress worked in the campaign like you and Congressman David over did? Do you recall who else was went on the stump for him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1150.0,1160.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I hesitate to Oh, the late George Brown of California, a good man with whom I went to a lot. Oh, wait, oh, God, I left out a lot. I covered Alaska, Fairbanks, Juneau, Anchorage. I covered Washington. I covered Oregon, where I debated I claim victory in Oregon for mole. No, wait a minute, that was Bobby Kennedy. Oh, okay. I meant Gene McCarthy,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1161.0,1193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: uh huh. Okay, strike the West","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1194.0,1196.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Coast. I didn't do anything for mo there. I. Actually,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1197.0,1199.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think with with the primaries and all the the the West Coast ended up getting, not getting, much attention from Mo's campaign. Now, Fred Harris was one of the liberal candidates who who had run and and was he running? He had run in all the primaries, and all, not, maybe not all of them, but, but up to then, and was, was it was evident that he was going to lose, that he had no chance at all to win, and he would have taken votes from mo he, and some people have said that, had he, had he dropped out of the Wisconsin campaign, that Moe would have won anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1200.0,1243.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Who was on the ballot and how they ended in Wisconsin, I don't I just know that Moe was second. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1244.0,1250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: don't recall it. I do have that information, but I don't have it with me right now. You think it was, it was Carter Harris got Moe lost by 8000 votes. I think Harris got something like, you know, nine or 10,000 votes that would have done it. Which, which would have done it. But I wondered if you knew anything about why he wouldn't withdraw. Or nothing, nothing. Okay, now I understand also that there was a money issue involved in Wisconsin, that there was a real need for money for late TV buys and things, and that this caused some, some squabbles within Mo's campaign, was that something you were aware of at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1251.0,1293.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What you just said is the first I heard of it. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1294.0,1296.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it's true. I just don't, yeah, I much of this there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1297.0,1300.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I assume there always was a money problem, as there is in all campaigns,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1301.0,1304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in all campaigns. That's absolutely true. Much of this comes from a book written by Jules whitcover called the marathon, where he mentioned some of that that was written about the 76 campaign. Now, what was your impression of Jimmy Carter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1305.0,1326.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I liked him very much at the start some book. I don't know whether whit covers said that I was considered by Carter for his vice presidential Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1327.0,1338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was in whit covers was that in whit COVID, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1339.0,1343.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: don't know whether true or not, he never, I never was approached on it. But anyway, we started out great friends. I tried to get Mrs. Carter interested in housing in cities with some mild success, Carter was very kind and generous to me. Had me up for a one on one lunch at the White House, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1344.0,1378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was very supportive of his Federal Reserve Chairman and Secretary of the Treasury, Bill Miller, and got along fine, really, until Carter's energy efforts and his malaise, speech in which the poor guy never really used malaise, but the word was put in his mouth. His his energy approach, in my view,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1379.0,1424.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was about as feckless as Hillary Clinton's health care approach, Ill thought out and and a failure. But what turned me against Jimmy and in support of of Teddy Kennedy in 1980 was what I thought was Carter's terrible economic importance, terrible economic performance, being the first Democrat in history to bring on a deep recession that isn't a good way to win, and this was done by overreacting to the OPEC inspired inflation by raising interest rates through the fed to a tremendous 20% level, which absolutely ruined the economy and ruined poor. Carter. Since then, he's been a. A marvelous ex president, he also exploited the Iran hostages issue against poor Teddy by staying engaged with it every day, when the way to handle a crisis, as has been proved many times, including recently with the Hainan American spy plane, is to keep quiet about it and work diplomatically, and things then fall into their place. So all of this led me here, we leave. Mo, no, we shouldn't leave. Mo, he and I and a few others were invited out to Teddy's house for breakfast just before he announced asking us, should, should I run? And both Mo and I said, yeah, if you feel you're up to it, by all means, he Teddy then had that unfortunate first interview for which he was not prepared with, who is the lanky television mogul of the day. He's still alive, I think. Anyway, he interviewed Teddy one on one, asking, Why do you want to be president? And Teddy didn't have a ready answer. Which was fatal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1425.0,1583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 1980 Moe considered running again for President. Were you aware of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1584.0,1589.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yes. In fact, I wrote, with his permission, a letter to which Time magazine published captioned one Moe chance, saying, This guy is good, and Moe was delighted to have me write that. But for reasons I don't recall, nothing came of it. I obviously wasn't going to urge him again that he had to run,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1590.0,1620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but you would have supported him in running again? Oh, yes. What kind of President Do you think he would have made?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1621.0,1629.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think a little depends on what went before him, and in my fantasy footnote in my book, I make that person an unassassinated Robert Kennedy. So you have mo taking over for two terms in 76 I think he would have made it an excellent president, and would have avoided, all avoided the degradation and deception of the American public which Reagan introduced, and would have brought us through the 80s nicely, with a expanding economy and with a good slightly left of center government, would have been a superb president.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1630.0,1679.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Obviously, I agree, as too many people, we haven't really talked about the environment. I know, I know Wisconsin was the home of John Muir and of Aldo Leopold,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1680.0,1695.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: not to mention John Wesley Powell, increased Latham, the the sponsor of the US Weather Service, and Carl Schertz, the forest and Indian loving Secretary of Interior under Hayes And I've just opened an outdoor Pantheon to these five environmental heroes, all of whom had their early years in Wisconsin. So it isn't just those","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1696.0,1730.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: two, it's that's amazing. And you, you said in your book that you came to Congress as a passionate environmentalist. Now I know you, you were put on the Government Operations Committee. Never got on the interior committee with Mo. But did you? Did your paths ever cross in environmental legislation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1731.0,1749.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yes, we were working opposite sides of the same street. I got the rather know nothing government ops committee to set up a subcommittee on Conservation and Natural Resources in about 1964 or thereabouts, and I kept that subcommittee until I became Banking Committee Chair eight years later, it did some wonderful work, all of which I brag about in my book. But Mo, meanwhile was pursuing his own much more focused course as an. Increasingly senior interior committee member.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1750.0,1803.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I noticed in your book that you you mentioned walking with Justice William Douglas on the CNO canal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1804.0,1812.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and on the Ice Age trail. The same place where I took my Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1813.0,1815.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: same place. Did mo or Stewart, ever join you on the CNO canal walks?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1816.0,1822.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: No, no. This is a one day a year for me and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1823.0,1834.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so really, your paths did not cross that much on environmental issues, even though you were both avid environmentalists,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1835.0,1840.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: writing you he must have been, he must have been, well, it was mainly Phil, Phil Burton who put together the national parks act of 1980 agree, a huge pork barrel of wonderful things, which included my Ice Age National Scenic Trail, for which I repaid Phil by being very upfront on gay rights. Trade off. Is he still living? No, no. He died in 1983 his brother, John, a good guy who also was in Congress and had a narcotic addiction, which he threw off, is now the Democratic leader of the California Senate. Oh, I didn't realize that, or he's a big shot who represents little people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1841.0,1905.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I didn't realize that you retired from Congress in 1983 what prompted that for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1906.0,1915.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: mainly, I was 70. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1916.0,1923.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I did want to spend my last two years as Chair of the Joint Economic Committee, because I saw that as the place to attack Reagan's economic policies. That done, I would have reverted to chair of the banking committee, where I had really accomplished everything in sight. On that committee, I'd also had a heart attack in 79 from which I had recovered, but in a way, I wish I hadn't retired, but had kept on for a few more years. Though I'm not it probably would have been a lonely and unhappy life, because the Democrats, with a few noble exceptions, tended to cop out during the Reagan years, except for the OB Udall Royce amendment of september 1981 1981 trying to undo the Reagan tax cut for the rich effect by closing some loopholes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=1924.0,2010.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: How did that come about? That you three co sponsored.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2011.0,2016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I originated it because I had been even though I wasn't a member of Ways and Means, I'd always been a big plugger of tax loopholes, and I think I encourage Obie and Udall old pals now to join me, and we put up a good fight. But of course, we're not successful","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2017.0,2041.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: by the time you retired in 1983 mo which Mo's symptoms of Parkinson's disease had become pretty evident. Did you or anyone you know ever encourage him to resign before 91 which is when he had to resign for health reasons. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2042.0,2063.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: certainly didn't and wouldn't have many did that I've heard of, and was it Barry Goldwater, who was a friend of his? Was it brother Stewart? I just don't know. I have some inkling that it may have been brother Stewart. Whoever did, I think, did the right thing. I didn't become aware of let's see. When did Moe Mary Norma,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2064.0,2097.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: OH. Maybe 1988","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2098.0,2101.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: as late as that. Anyway, I don't think I saw,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2102.0,2105.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, I'm sorry no little earlier,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2106.0,2109.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well, whenever I just didn't see mo doing the early years of retirement, part of which I spent as a lawyer in a large firm in Washington, and then getting bored by that as a Philanthropic Board type before we moved here in 95 I saw mo I heard that he had Parkinson's, and I saw him and his wife, Norma, whom I met for the first time at a party given by a charming young couple whose name escapes me at the moment, he had been on the staff of my Joint Economic Committee, and Norma was an old friend of his, so That's how he knew Moe and they were there. Mole had a little problem, but was very clear in the mind. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2110.0,2197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it must have been some it must have been earlier than 88","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2198.0,2202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when they were married. I'm sorry that I don't well know that right off,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2203.0,2206.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: because if he died in 91 no, yes, he died in 91 yes, it was more than three years before his death anyway. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2207.0,2215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 1991 is when he was forced to retire. Even when did he die? Not until a couple of years ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2216.0,2225.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Anyway, shortly after or I think we may have told Norma on meeting her and she was and is an outgoing person. Is she still alive and where she is and adequately taken care of? Oh, yes, good. She deserves it. And where she live, Alexandria, she's,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2226.0,2246.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: she's in, I believe it's Alexandria, I think, in the in the same town home good that, that she and moto had moved to just before he retired.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2247.0,2257.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Anyway, we must have told her that we had found to take care of my 102 year old father in law, Margaret's father, who was in an apartment right near where we lived. We employed a very nice Filipino dentist to take care of him, which he did fine. And Norma called saying, Look, I really need somebody to get mo into and out of bed. Does your Filipino have any pals? And Ernesto said, Yeah, I'll I'll send over so and so, and we must have later heard from Norma that she perhaps sometime later that she didn't think they could afford his salary, which was too bad since then Moe fell, and that was the end, right exactly thereafter I saw him at least once in the Veterans Hospital, where he was sort of unconscious, but I could feel his hand and I sort of kissed him goodbye. Yeah, Norma told me you're the second person to kiss him, George Bush, the first. Oh, is that right? Isn't that interesting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2258.0,2352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's very interesting. Very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2353.0,2357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So that's about it, but please jog me with any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2358.0,2363.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I wonder you're you're one person who worked with both, with both Stuart and Anne Morris Udall on the congressional level. Can you compare or contrast their styles. Oh, no two, yeah, comparing,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2364.0,2386.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: they both were very efficient congressmen. Mo, of course, wrote a book about it, which was well received and a big help even to veterans like my. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2387.0,2403.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: this was the job of the congressman. Yes, how were they as how were their styles different as legislators?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2404.0,2414.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I can't pinpoint any difference. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2415.0,2426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: hmm, I have one last question that I ask everybody. We tend to talk a lot about Mo's attributes. I wonder if, if, if you could say what, what? What were his weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2427.0,2445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I haven't really said what his strengths were. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2446.0,2448.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was just thinking of that that we have basically the old familiar","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2449.0,2452.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: ones, of integrity, intellectual power, great sense of humor, loyalty. Loyalty, for instance, after the OB UD Royce tax effort in late 1981 that I described, I came back from a quick trip abroad to find That Obie and Udall, presumably with me, had had announced they were going to try it again, because, you know how these bills rotate. Hearing of it that disturbed me, because I thought, I thought we would wear out our good will become like the anti abortion crowd and trying the same amendment time and again. So I called OBI, well, he wasn't in. And I called Moe and gave him my doubts, and he said, Well, if you, if you have your doubts, get off. But I told Obi I would, and while I I think you're probably right, Henry, I wouldn't want to leave him in the merch. Well, that was fine, so I quietly stepped off. Maybe I was being too cautious, but he was very loyal on his weaknesses. I don't count his central Arizona project as a weakness. I count it as the price you have to pay for representing your district. He may have been a little premature in running against both McCormick and Hale Boggs. That must have made him some enemies and in the house, because we never generated a great many Udall supporters outside of OB me and George Brown have difficulty thinking of any. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2453.0,2608.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there were 4044, I believe, signers of the petition, but that doesn't mean that they worked for him actively. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2609.0,2620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So those unrealistic political expectations, on the other hand, he couldn't have made a name for himself if he hadn't done some of these dashing things. I think running against McCormick was a was a mistake that's aiming too high. Even running against Hale blogs, he would have done much better to make a deal saying, Look, can I be whip or something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2621.0,2658.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I had the impression noise that he was sort of jousting against the seniority system to some extent, but he would not have run without thinking he could win.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2659.0,2672.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't know","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2673.0,2679.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: if so, he was mistaken, and that's a weakness, yes, to which we all subscribe, right? But the weaknesses are very, very minor, or I wouldn't be the passionate devotee of mole that I am.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2680.0,2696.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I really don't have any more questions. Well, thank you. Nothing to add. I'd just like to thank you for taking the time to do this. I'd like to interview","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2697.0,2703.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you now on problems of the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311#t=2704.0,2706.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146511/file/270311/transcript/78631/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/631/original/azu_ms396-032_side2_a.vtt?1744914365","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/631/original/azu_ms396-032_side2_a.vtt?1744914365"}]}]}]}