{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/q52f76822m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["George \"Buddy\" Darden"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 1, tape 48"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Darden, George, 1943- (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2000-11-16"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Georgia--Atlanta (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with George \"Buddy\" Darden conducted by Julie Ferdon. Darden was a former congressman and worked with Morris Udall on the Interior Committee."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.011 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with George \"Buddy\" Darden conducted by Julie Ferdon. Darden was a former congressman and worked with Morris Udall on the Interior Committee."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms396-011_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2740.416,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/284/original/azu_ms396-011_side1_a.mp3?1744847786","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2740.416,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is tape number 48 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good afternoon. It's Thursday, November 16, 2000 My name is Julie ferdon, and I'm in the Atlanta, Georgia office of former Congressman George Buddy Darden. Congressman Darden, thank you so much for participating in this project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1.0,17.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, thank you. It's a real pleasure to come and talk with you and reminisce about a man that I dearly loved and respected. Mo Udall,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=18.0,24.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: let's start at the beginning. Where and when were you born? I was born","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=25.0,28.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in Hancock County, Georgia on November 22 1943 and I turned 20 years old on the day that President Kennedy was assassination, right? And that's of course will be next week.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=29.0,44.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did that help spur you into politics for chance? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=45.0,48.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I had previously worked in the Washington office of Senator Richard B Russell, whose name appears all over Georgia and Atlanta. In fact, the Richard B Russell building that we can see out of today is the federal courthouse here in Atlanta. And Senator Russell had a program in which he brought young men and women to Washington to work in patronage jobs. And that's where I first really became interested in government and got involved. And I had just returned from Washington, back to the University of Georgia when President Kennedy was assassinated. I'd actually seen President Kennedy the prior January when he gave his last State of the Union address, and I had attended that and so I had a very special and deep, abiding interest in President Kennedy, the Kennedy administration. Of course, I was familiar at that time with Mo's brother Stewart, and of course, I heard about him and his participation in the Kennedy administration. Had you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=49.0,114.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: met Stewart? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=115.0,115.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had seen him on the elevator one of the jobs that Senator Russell gave me in addition to working in his office free, was that he got patronage jobs with us through his colleague, Senator Hayden, who at that time was a dean of the Senate and the head of the patronage committee. So what the senators in those days would work out is they would get us jobs as policemen, as elevator operators and as door keepers in the Senate, and while salary would be paid to do those jobs, and then we gladly worked in the office for free, folding mail and running errands for four or five","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=116.0,152.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: more hours a day. What was your job with Senator Russell? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=153.0,156.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had several jobs. I served as a patronage employee on the Capitol elevator bank for about nine months, and then for about three months, I served as a Senate doorkeeper, basically escorting tourists who came to the gallery for one reason or another to watch the Senate in session and and to assist managing the crowds in the Senate gallery, also worked down briefly at the Senate reception room and went into the floor and got senators who had been paid to come outside to see various constituents and others who did not have floor access. But as I said before, Senator Russell saw this as also a very practical way to save a little money on staff. So he asked us, and we were glad, to come into the office every day and full mail, proofread mail, to run errands and whatever else. You know, he wanted us to do. What a fabulous experience. And I was a sophomore in college, also was taking a part time load at George Washington University","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=157.0,222.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: at the time. Now, you graduated from University of Georgia, University of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=223.0,226.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Georgia in 1965 with an AB degree, and in 1967 with an LLB, which became a JD degree, a law degree. I'm what's known as a double dog the University of Georgia Bulldogs, and that's our team mascot and and someone who earned both degrees at Georgia is generally referred to as a double dog.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=227.0,250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What? What did you do after law school? After law","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=251.0,252.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: school, I came to Cobb County, Georgia to serve as an assistant district attorney for the Cobb Judicial Circuit, which was one of the growing counties in the Atlanta metropolitan area. I'd grown up in a very poor County, a county which only had one lawyer, but frankly, that's all it needed. And so I had really no future in rural Georgia. And I'd grown up on a family farm there, and my parents, of course, very strongly believe in the value of education. But after I obtained my education, unfortunately, I could not go back to my hometown, because there were just absolutely no opportunities there. So I went to Cobb County, which is in the northwest area of the Atlanta region, and it was a. A vastly growing County at the time, and now, of course, is the third largest county in the state, has roughly 700 to 750,000 people in the area. I came as an assistant district attorney. I was the first full time Assistant District Attorney for the Cobb Judicial Circuit. And now I think that's something like 50 now, that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=253.0,323.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was, that was during the time of the 76 presidential election. I'm just curious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=324.0,331.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, that was before that was 67 Oh, it was, I got out, and, of course, I became an assistant district attorney.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=332.0,336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I guess I was thinking of when you were the district attorney, right? I stayed as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=337.0,340.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: an assistant district attorney up until the general election in 1972 when I was elected as a Democrat in a predominantly Republican county, or at least one which was turning Republican in 1972 after having served as an assistant for five years, and incidentally, during that time, one of my fellow Assistant District Attorneys was Roy Barnes, and he and I worked together very closely, and then he stayed on for a short period of time after I became assistant district attorney, and after he left the district Attorney's Office in 73 I was able to assist him to get elected to the Senate, the state of Georgia Senate in 1976 at age 26 Roy Barnes is currently the governor of Georgia today, and we have great hopes that he'll be re elected governor in two years for a second four year term in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=341.0,397.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm just curious myself, in during the 76 campaign, your governor Jimmy Carter was, was running for president and and Mo Udall was as well for the Democratic nomination. Had you heard of Mo Udall before then? Or were you no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=398.0,418.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Udall? Actually, I'd seen his name in the paper, and I knew, of course, that he was a Congressman from Arizona, and as I recall, he had replaced his brother in Congress when his brother joined the cabinet in the candidate administration. So I kept up with politics, but but no more, no more than that. And since I was running myself for re election in 1976 I was not that involved in the Carter campaign. The interesting thing about Jimmy Carter is that he, and I think he will be the first one to tell you this was not taken very seriously as a presidential candidate. In fact, he was taken more seriously in other states than he was in Georgia, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=419.0,463.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's often the case. It was the case with Mo too, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=464.0,466.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So to assist him, the Georgia legislature actually made the Georgia primary in 1970 76 put it off to around May, so he could get up enough steam in other states so that he would be regarded as a serious presidential candidate by the time he came to Georgia. Of course, that strategy worked, and when the Georgia primary rolled along, he got maybe over 80% of the vote, but he was not regarded as a serious presidential candidate up until, up until around March, april of 1976 Governor Carter been elected governor and taken office in 71 left office in 74 and was not an especially popular governor. He had changed his course on several different areas, and I think President Carter would be the first to tell you that he had also run a campaign for election the governor that he would have not been particularly proud of. So Carter, Carter, though, ran an outstanding campaign, of course, for president, and the moon the stars lined up. And to everyone's great surprise, especially the people of Georgia, he eventually was elected president.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=467.0,550.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You were you ran for the Georgia House in 1980 1980","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=551.0,554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 1976 I ran for re elections, da and so while Jimmy Carter and others were being being elected, I went down to defeat. I'd had a very tough and controversial case that had more or less blown up in my face, involved in a murder case of about two physicians, and we had convicted the persons who were accused and their convictions had been upheld in the Supreme Court, but an accomplice to the murders, or at least an alleged accomplished after the sentences were being served by the persons who were convicted, she recanted and basically said that the story she had given to the police was not correct, and so the convictions were. Reversed and largely on the basis of that I lost reelection in 1976 and presumed that that was the end of my political career. What did you do after that? I went into law practice by myself and had no real plans of ever going back into political life again. What did you specialize in? I had a general practice, kind of a small town, general practice in which I did a few criminal cases. I did some divorces, I did some civil suits. I had a couple of clients that were rather well healed as well. I represented on the railroads in in their accident cases that occurred in Cobb County. So I had a pretty good general practice. It started off very, very small from the very beginning in 1977 and then it grew to the extent in 1980 I was looking for some, some other challenges, and you decided to run for, ran for the ran for the state house, practically unopposed, and won by very large margin, and then really enjoyed working in general assembly. It was a wonderful opportunity, and which I personally liked a lot, that the political aspect a lot more than the judicial side and the prosecutorial end anyway, and I'd probably still be da in Cobb County if I hadn't been defeated in 1976 so I was fortunate for me. I was no something else, and then I ran, ran for re election in 1982 was again very, very overwhelmingly elected. Had practically no opposition, and then I was in the middle of my second term. Went on September 1 of 1983 the congressman who represented our district at that time, Dr Larry McDonald was aboard a aircraft on its way from Anchorage Alaska to Seoul, Korea. That was Korean Airlines Flight oh seven. And on board that plane, of course, was Congressman McDonald and 269 other people. And when the plane ventured into what was then Soviet airspace, the fighters from the then Soviet Union shot the aircraft down, killing all those persons aboard. And then Governor Joe Frank Harris, five days later, called for a special non partisan election, and everyone, including me, just thought that the widow Kathy McDonald would automatically be elected the governor, assuming that set the special election for october 17, which would have been four weeks after the close of qualifying with a runoff If one was To be necessary to be held November the seventh, 19 candidates, as I recall, filed to run in the special election, and by that time, Mrs. McDonald's popularity had begun unraveling somewhat, since she was not from Georgia, and since she had not appeared to be as concerned about the loss of a husband as she was carrying out his political agenda. He was a national president of John Birch Society at the time, and so she became very vocal and outspoken and on that issue. So to make a long story short, on november 17, she only got 30% of the vote at the first non partisan special election. I came in second at 27 and a half, so that forced us into a runoff, and then three weeks later, I was elected on special elections of the generals to the United States Congress, where I joined, where I joined, Mo Udall and others who already in in progress.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=555.0,846.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you, you came in to the house and to the interior committee as a brand new congressman in the middle of a session.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=847.0,855.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, not exactly, because for the first for the first term, or partial term, I served from november of 1983 through the end of 1984 I served on the Armed Services Committee and was a temporary member of Jack Brooks's Government Affairs Committee. However, I always wanted to be on the interior committee. And so I got to know Mo Udall during the term, the partial term I served, and when I took office for my first full term in January of 1985 it was then that I was elected to serve on the Interior and Insular Affairs Committee, which. Chaired at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=856.0,900.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What were your first impressions of Mo Udall? He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=901.0,904.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was clearly one of the most respected and beloved members of the House of Representatives. Everybody knew and liked Mo Udall. Of course, we were aware of his, having been one of the Young Turks years before, during the the Watergate years and and had brought about some of the reforms that the house had had adopted years years before, but by this time, he had become a rather wise and revered elder statesman, but he always took time to to talk to the young, younger members. And fortunately, I got to know him before his illness began, and I really got to see what I thought was a true essence of Mo Udall, as I recall, of course, when he began, began to fail, but I had an opportunity to serve with him on the committee beginning January of 1985 until the time that his health began to deteriorate so much, and which forced him to eventually resign. We traveled together. We took one memorable trip to Alaska in particular that I'll be glad to elaborate more on in a little while. But he he ran a good committee. He was very fair, very knowledgeable on all the issues, not overbearing in the least. And it was just a true pleasure and honor to serve on a committee of which he was chairman. He had already earned his credentials and established his credentials by then as the father of the Alaskan lands bill at milk, I think was what they what they called it. He had already become a senior statesman to the environmental community and and I think he was truly, truly enjoying his last, last few years as a very like, as I said, beloved and respected member. All the Democrats and the Republicans all loved him. I don't think I never heard of heard a bad word about Mo Udall time I was there, because he would be fond of saying, with his sense of humor, that everybody becomes a statement if you outlive your enemies. And that was, I think he told me that one time, maybe not quite in those in those words, but that's how he responded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=905.0,1059.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did he have any opponents on the interior committee? The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1060.0,1063.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: only opponents he had on the interior committee would have been ones who might have opposed a bill or proposal he made for philosophical reasons. Don Young was a ranking member even back then, as I recall, and Don young, I assume, is still chairman of the new name Natural Resources Committee, but he and Don and Mo Udall worked together quite well. In fact, Mo Udall worked well with everybody. I'm Mr. Seiberling. John Seiberling was, was the subcommittee chairman under under Mo, and they seem to have a good relationship. I believe Nick Joe Ray Hall was head of one of the subcommittees on perhaps energy. They worked, worked together well, oh, he worked quite well with the with the Republican members. And sure, we had every now and then that'd be a contentious issue, but for the most part, it was never personal, never, never any, any degree of rank her on on that committee. Main thing mo had to do was referee some of the more outspoken members on each side and to be sure that their tempers didn't flare up too much and but he he really was the essence of civility. And people talk about the Congress now, which was more or less ushered in by Newt Gingrich and began in 1995 as a rather unpleasant place to be. But in those days, I really enjoyed serving in Congress, and one of the reasons I enjoyed serving was because of men like Mo Udall. He was certainly not the only member who who exhibited these qualities I've been telling you about, but he really personified the civility and the essence, essence of respecting, you know, others opinions and and I can't think of anyone I serve with that I had more respect to admiration for. And I think that was universal, both among Democrats and Republicans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1064.0,1194.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Tell us about the trip you took to Alaska with them. Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1195.0,1198.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Trip we took Roy Jones, our Chief of Staff at the time. I certainly hope you have a chance to interview him, because I think he did. He could offer some very, very good insights on Mo and how you ran the committee. You could probably tell a lot of things that were done, and I had no idea, you know, we're going on, but more organized as a trip to go to Alaska and to to more or less do a we kiddin. They called it a victory lap several years after the Alaska national wildlife preservation, whatever nilka stands for, it was passed when I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1199.0,1248.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was Alaska National Interest","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1249.0,1251.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Lands Conservation Act, or something like that. But anyway, so I think this might have been the first time, one of the first times of mow had been back to Alaska since, since that thing passed, because he was not exactly regarded as a very popular figure of that. He was somewhat jocular about it, and he, you've heard the joke, I think he used to tell about everyone. One always waved at him when he came to Alaska, but they only used one finger.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1252.0,1279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I remember that. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1280.0,1281.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: anyway, the people I remember being on the trip were Bill Richardson, of course, who went on to become ambassador at UN and now Secretary of Energy. But Bill and I win the same, same class, and both junior members on that that committee, let's see George Miller joined, joined the group, and was there at least for part of the way we were met by then Secretary of the Interior, Donald Hodel, who, who was, was a part of the trip. What year was this? This had to be, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going to guess it would have either been 87 or 89 right around, right around that time there was a Congressman from New York, Bob, with an Eastern European surname. I'll think of it later on, but most of the time old Jamie McLeod Clark and his wife, Elsie, were along, but we flew. The group of us flew by military jet to Anchorage, then we took a smaller plane into Fairbanks, and then even smaller plane into a place called dead horse. And so for the next week and a half, we worked our way. We worked our way down, beginning at at the Arctic, Arctic Circle in which we in which we had hearings with Indian, Indians and Eskimos about about the proposed drilling in Anwar. That was the Arctic wildlife national refuge. That was the one area that Congress left in anilca up to the side later on. And Mo, as you might recall, was a big opponent of opening up Anwar to drilling. I think the Republican candidate George W Bush brought that up again in the campaign this year. But, yes, he did, but, and I certainly hope that and wars never, is never opened up to drilling. But Mo was, was very much, very much against that. But we started off in the Indian villages around CAC tovic, and then worked our way down over a series of days to visit virtually every portion of Alaska. In fact, we went to probably and covered more of Alaska than than most Alaskans have ever been. We started off up in Prudhoe Bay, in the oil fields there, and stayed in those facilities well as to the to the Indian villages at CAC tovic. Came down to do back to Fairbanks and met with with some folks there. We came then back back to Anchorage, where we met a number of officials, in which where most of the people are Alaska, as you know, Captain Cook hotel, sorry, call. Then we went off on different trips and planes to to some of the national parks. I went to the Rangel st Elias Park and over. To a glacier, and Kennecott, all those went in different directions, and we met back in Alaska. Then we ended up getting on a boat going to Juneau, the capital, and met the governor that time. Steve Cooper spent a good, better time with him. Then from Juneau. I believe we went to Sitka, at least at some part time we were in Sitka, which is, you know, the old Russian capsule with the onion domes. And believe James Michener might have been in residence at the time, or he had been there where he wrote his book Alaska. And we went fishing on Sitka Bay, some of Bill Richardson and I did at least. Then we went from Sitka on down to Ketchikan, and then I believe, we flew out of Ketchikan back to Portland, where we and then back to Washington, DC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1282.0,1555.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But what was it like to travel with Mo? Oh, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1556.0,1558.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was, it was, he was so entertaining. He always had a story, always had, always had an experience. And of course, as you know, he, he chronicled a number of these stories. And too funny to be president, which I've, I think I've got about I bought about 10 copies of that book and had him autograph them. But I was very proud of those. Of course, I still, still have my own, my own copy. But he, he always said that once you told a joke, it became part of the public domain, and there was no original story, nobody, nobody had an original, original joke. It was just one you hear from somebody else and can pass along. So he always said he was somewhat shameless about about telling somebody else's story, and they're all in the public, public domain, but most of the time, the stories he told, of course, was self deprecating and which always put everybody at ease. You've heard the story he must have told 100 times. It was funny. Every time he told he could tell the same story that went over and over and and you'd still laugh. Honestly, that's so true, such as such as the one about when he goes in and tells somebody in the barber shop he's mow you dog running for president. And the guy says, yeah, we're just laughing about that this morning, but he every time he told it, it was, it was, it was still funny. How was Mo's health on that trip? Most health was, was pretty good on that, on that trip. And I remember when, when he, when he started failing. It was, it was traumatic. How quickly first of all, it started off maybe a little slowly, but then it it. He failed dramatically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1559.0,1667.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: When do you have any sense of when that was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1668.0,1671.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: You need to help me a little bit and when, when did he resign? Was that 90 that was 1991 in April, in April of 91 Okay, so we just been to put this in the right order. That means that we had just come into the governor Bucha is second Congress, and we just voted on the Gulf War, or earlier, early in January of that year. All right, I remember, I remember him at the end of a previous Congress. I don't believe it was the immediate Congress before then that ended in in 90 but it must have been the end of the year in 88 or 89 in which the Congress is trying to wrap up its its business. And we did in all nighter one night, and we finally voted on the last bill around seven o'clock in the morning, and we all sitting around in our offices and half asleep and mad and irritable, and I never will forget, as I was leaving the floor, coming back to the cannon office building at seven in the morning, having just voted. And of course, the time had not yet expired, I met Mo Udall on elevator, and he was here. He was older, beginning to to show some signs of failing. Help. We hear you at seven o'clock in the morning, Trent over there, casting a vote, you know, just like the rest of us. And I thought to myself, what I need to worry about. Here I am. I was in my mid 40s at the time, or late 40s. And you know, if Moe Udall can handle this, I think I can. I can do it and quit, quit complaining. But it must have been if I could elaborate a little bit. If he resigned in 91 it wouldn't have been at the end of 90 either. Probably would have been at the end. Of a congress in 88 that's my best guess. Or maybe even at the end of the year in 89 I'm inclined to think it was 88 because he still would have had sufficient faculties to even though it would have, would have taken its toll on him. He was still in that swinging to the end, and he tried. That's the main thing I remember about mo up until the time he resigned, he kept on trying until he was just physically unable to do the job. I remember the last last Congress in which he, which he, which he served. He was still the chairman, but George Miller began to be I think George was elected act Chairman","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1672.0,1842.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: after in 91 after mo fell down the stairs of his apartment in Arlington and was in the hospital and then a nursing home. And I think between that time and the time he resigned, George Miller acted as chair. Right? Did there come a time before, before Moe fell that you thought perhaps he was no longer able to carry on his duties as chairman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1843.0,1871.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I never had that many discussions with anyone, a couple of members who, who were, were, I won't say vocal about it, but express some, express some concerns, and, but I think, I think mo, mo, mo tried his best to stay in there And and toward the end, before, before he fell. I think, I think had not this event specifically precipitated his, his leaving, I think he probably would have, would have, would have stopped, because it was becoming increasingly difficult for him, and he it was, I just My heart went out to him, because he had all of his mental faculties, but couldn't physically do what had to be done. I remember he had so many, so many difficulties, maybe holding his head, head up, but he and and making a word come out. But he, it was very clear. He, he, he had all of his mental faculties, but his brain could not transmit to his head or to his arms or to his legs what he was trying to do. So it had to be, I know it had to be especially tormenting and frustrating for him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1872.0,1961.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were there any members of the committee who actually approached him and suggested to him personally that he resigned his position?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1962.0,1971.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Not to my knowledge? Now again, I was I was not in the hierarchy of the committee. I was among the junior members, even though a few, a few came after I did, there wasn't that much turnover on the on the committee, a special and Democratic side. There's a lot of turnover on the on the Republican side, like John McCain, I remember, used to be on the committee at one time I served with him on the interior, interior committee, who, incidentally, I hope you have a chance to interview as well, because, if you haven't already, because he give a lot of insight into Mo and he would, I think he would be wanting to tell you how well Moe treated, you know, the Republican and minority members as well. This doesn't mean he had to roll over to them on the issues or votes anything like that, but you know he how civilly, you know, he treated everyone, but I never had those discussions, and I heard, heard some talk among a couple of the more one or two of the more senior members. But you remember who those were? I remember one. I remember the only person I heard who showed as fate would have it, he died the other day. That was Bruce Vento. Bruce was chairman of one of the committees and and he expressed some some frustration, but he's the only one I think I ever heard","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=1972.0,2064.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when Moe resigned, what was the reaction when he did fall and injure himself, and his health took a real turn for the worst and he was unable to return to Congress or to the chairmanship of The committee? What was the reaction among members of the committee? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2065.0,2082.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: first of all, we, we all looked at it as an inevitability, and actually we knew that, that that had he not fallen ahead, not a precipitating event taken place as deeply as we regretted. It. Everybody knew it was for the best, and it is painful to say that, but the know that we had come, come to know and love, it, it just, it just become unable, unable, essentially, to function. So, so we, we deeply regretted it, and of course, unfortunately, we didn't get a chance to spend any time with him, because it just happened, and that was, for lack of a better word, there's no closure. And many of us who would like to been able to talk and say things to him and spend some time with him that that didn't get, that didn't get that opportunity. I remember, remember is very fortunate that he got, he got married around that time because, because he it was, it was sad to see someone who'd been so so physically strong and virile and and to be placed in a situation where he he literally had to be helped along everywhere he went. And I know this was, this was so terribly painful, you know, for him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2083.0,2178.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and for his family, George Miller became chairman after that. How would you compare? Compare them as chairman, their their style, their effectiveness? Well, a couple","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2179.0,2192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of major differences. First of all, George a whole lot younger, and George philosophically would probably be more liberal than Moe. Moe from a public land state, and he understood not only the merits for the preservation of public lands, but he had also dealt the with the other interests and and he frankly, saw two sides of the public lands issues better than George did. George, being being from California, being a very strong environmentalist himself, didn't see the other side of the resource argument quite as as easy as Mo. Now, Mo and George would probably use a come out, come down, the same place, but George, George a little more brash. George, a little more was a little more, I wouldn't use the word harsh, but little more confrontational than than Mo. Of course, it didn't make any difference to me, because I was from the eastern United States and the particular south, and I didn't mind my sticking it to the to the cattlemen and the the grazing fees and to the miners and all the, all these, these other people, whenever I got, got the opportunity, but, but in George, I assure you didn't, but I guess I would say that Mo was a little more measured in his approach and a little less aggressive. And in some ways, in some ways,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2193.0,2298.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: how did mo use his his humor as a committee chairman Did, did he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2299.0,2305.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well? He could always diffuse. He could always diffuse a potential, a potential outburst, or potential, you know, serious confrontation. He could do that. And George, George, and again, you just got a different style, a different person, a different area you represented. But after Moe left, and this is the other side of it is and just so we need to be totally fair to George. Is that Republicans because of of Mo statu did not, did not challenge him as often as they would challenge George, and George was a much easier target than than than Mo Mo would have been. And so the Republicans committee became far more partisan after after mo left. Do you think? But it's not all, it's not all George's fault. In fact, it's probably more the Republicans fault than the Democrats, because Mo's presence, I mean, they are about the man. You didn't You didn't challenge Mo, and you certainly didn't confront him on anything of a personal nature, unless, unless it was an extraordinary situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2306.0,2394.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1994 you were well, let me ask you, before this. Did you ever see mo again after he resigned? No, okay, in 1994 you were unseated by Congressman Bob Barr. I, and I understand that he, he, it was a, it was sort of a rough campaign where he accused you of labeled you as being a Clinton ally. Oh, yeah. I just wonder if your friendship with Mo had, who had such a liberal image, hurt you at all in that campaign. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2395.0,2432.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: absolutely not. Oh, absolutely not. That was, that was a year, you know, of the of the tsunami. They call it when a large number of Democrats, something like 30 or more, lost, lost their seats. This was a Clinton mid year, two years after after Clinton had come in, and for whatever reason, I lost, and I don't blame anybody for my losses, certainly, but no, I think, I think, if anything, I was a little better candidate and and probably a little more, a lot more effective Congressman because of most so, no, not, not, not at all, not at all. Mo was. Mo was a very strong environmentalist and and I became more more sensitized to the to environmental issues because of him, but, but no, I would, I would say absolutely not. Of course, President Clinton's different story. We had to make some very, very difficult votes during the first two years of the Clinton administration, which turned out to be the right thing, but they were very politically painful at the time. And so if there were external factors leading to my being defeated in 1994 it would have been due to that more than anything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2433.0,2520.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you came back here and to practice law, back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2521.0,2524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to Georgia. See, I never moved to DC. I always went up on the weekend. That's a very short hop, as you know, from here, you got a Delta leaving every hour on the hour to DC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2525.0,2535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And so that's convenient.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2536.0,2536.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So I virtually commuted at least on a weekly, weekly basis,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2537.0,2543.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and you're now with long Aldridge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2544.0,2547.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: What kind of law do you have? Full Service law firm, and we have a Washington office as well, which I occasionally do some work out of. But I've kind of redefined and reinvented myself through the years. I stayed very active in democratic politics. I was a delegate to the 96 and 90, excuse me, in 2000 conventions, because I mentioned my relationship with Governor Barnes. In that context, I chair the judicial nominating commission for him, in which we when judicial vacancies occur. We have non partisan judges in Georgia, and I chair the commission that handles the the notices of vacancies and the qualifications assessment, and eventually we narrow the list of nominees down from three to five for all judgeships for the governor to consider. So that takes about, oh 30, maybe 25 or 30% of my time. That's pro bono work, of course. And banking cost money for the firm, end up paying paying expenses of doing it as well, but that's a 18 person commission. I chair statewide, and that takes a lot of my time. I represent several major clients on a consulting basis. I give strategic and political advice, too, but the main thing I'm working on today, in my experience with Mo and the interior committee served me quite well, and that is Georgia and Alabama and Florida are involved in a disagreement over the allocation of the waters over two major river basins. One is the ACF basin, which stands for Appalachia, Cola, Flint and Chattahoochee River basins, which runs through Atlanta from North Georgia and goes down to Florida and enters in the Gulf of Mexico. And the other major basin is the, is the A, C T, which stands for the Alabama, CUSA and Tallapoosa basin, which emanates up in north Georgia and goes through the state capital of Montgomery in Alabama and into the Gulf of Mexico. And we are currently, have been a. Long standing disagreement with Alabama and Florida the allocation of those waters, and Governor Barnes and Attorney General Thurber Baker have appointed me and our firm to serve as special outside counsel for the state, and I'm spending most of my time now trying to work to reach an agreement with those states for the equitable allocation of the waters in those basins pursuant to a compact that was passed by the states and by the by the federal government in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284#t=2548.0,2550.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270284/transcript/78600/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/600/original/azu_ms396-011_side1_a.vtt?1744913417","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/600/original/azu_ms396-011_side1_a.vtt?1744913417"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - azu_ms396-011_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":505.56,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/285/original/azu_ms396-011_side2_a.mp3?1744847788","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":505.56,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The case starting slide two here, Water Water Disputes are fascinating. Typically, Western","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=1.0,7.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Arizona versus California is a landmark. It certainly is. And our chairman, Clay long, who's working on the matter with me was the law clerk to Justice Hugo black in the Supreme Court United States when Arizona versus California was was decided. So he brings a lot to our our team, but anyway, I work on on the team here in the firm that is representing the the state of Georgia toward trying to resolve this. We go into mediation next week down in Florida over one of the basins. And if we can find hotel rooms in the Tallahassee area because of the vote count going on now, I think we'll be able to and but that's what I'm mostly doing. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=8.0,54.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you think about running for office again? I don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=55.0,56.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: have any plans to you. Never say what you never want to do. I came within a whisker of being appointed to the to the Senate this year. Senator coverle died, but Governor Barnes, I was under consideration with that, but Governor Barnes made the right step when Governor former Governor Miller, decided to accept the appointment. He was a natural person to do it, especially considering he had to run for office for the remainder of the term within three months after he took office. So as you know, something, Miller was elected very handily in a special election, and was the right choice. But I, but I was very strongly considered for that and would have been very honored to have accepted that appointment. I have no desire to go back to the house. I do some one thing, another thing I'm doing, you may be interested in. I'm doing some work for NDI, the National Democratic Institute, and I've been to, been to the Senegal, to Turkey and Indonesia, to speak to members of the parliaments of those countries about civil military relations and also the ethics codes. You know, Mo was very involved in that, and I eventually served on the ethics committee as well, not with him, but so I've continued to do some of those that sounds fascinating those things as well, so I don't have any any complaints. Oh, President Clinton nominated me to be a member of the board of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation last month, but I think it'll probably just be a recess appointment. I anticipate the Senate being a position to confirm me on the present climate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=57.0,164.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Let me finish up with two questions. One is, what do you think Mo's legacy will be? His","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=165.0,170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: legacy will be civility, integrity and in general, good will and humor that you can and this sounds trite, but you can disagree without being disagreeable, and that, in that you can represent your your point of view and in your constituents and the national interest as well, without being in a personal battle from time to time and and this is also not original thought with me. We all heard it many, many times, but it's a it's the old notion of taking your responsibility seriously without taking yourself too seriously. So I think that all those kind of come to mind. And plus, he was just a very, very just fun to be with, fun to be around,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=171.0,236.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: interesting that you use the terms civility and integrity. Those are the very words that the Udall center and Udall Foundation have chosen for their banners with Mo is civility and integrity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=237.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Of course, legislatively, it will be, you know, on a number of public lands and environmental issues, that's that's where you you think of him in terms of and earlier, earlier persons, I didn't because the so called Watergate reforms were in place by the time I got there. But as as as draconian and and as the house was at the time I got there, it surely must have been, been a pretty dismal place before you know, he and others conducted the reforms of the folks 74","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=250.0,294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: we my final question is, when I ask everybody, we talk a. About most strengths, what did you see as his weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=295.0,306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I can't really pick out a particular weakness that he had. I would not like all of us. He didn't like to he would prefer to address, address issues that were were a little easy to deal with, and some of those are more more difficult and and like all of us, he would, he would prefer to take up issues that were fun to deal with, rather than, he'd rather do environmental issues, for example, rather than than the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. But I don't know. I don't I nothing really particularly comes, comes to mind where you might say is his weaknesses. Now, I was not, I've got, I've got to emphasize that, that I didn't know him outside of member to member. And we all come together from everywhere in the United States, from Hawaii to Arizona to New Mexico to Maine on Monday or Tuesday. And then we were scatter and disperse, literally, sometimes all over the world, and then be back again the following Monday to Tuesday. So I don't know about what his other life was, or what his personal life I'm inclined to think though that at least in his latter years, his whole life was his work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=307.0,402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think that's probably true. I don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=403.0,405.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: think he had had really any life outside of of the house. He was not required, like those of us and these swing districts, to go home every weekend. In fact, it was kind of extraordinary event. When he came, came home, he didn't. He had to go back maybe a couple times campaign, but nothing like what most of us he had. He had gotten far beyond that, that, that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=406.0,431.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and it's not a quick hop, skip and a jump to Tucson from Washington. In fact,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=432.0,436.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you probably either got to go through here or go to Chicago to get that nose a direct flight to Phoenix from Atlanta","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=437.0,445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: or through Dallas. A lot of them are through Dallas, right? Well, thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it My pleasure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=446.0,452.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I really appreciate the opportunity to kind of reflect a little bit, because be honest with you, I forgot you were coming. I was up in the middle of a meeting, and I hadn't even thought about, you know what I was going to say today. And you get so busy involved, and you do day to day things that really have a chance to think about, reflect on some of those. So it was most enjoyable for me to have a have a chance, even though I had to do all the talking to think back and reflect on as one of those people who you know really, that you really looked up to, and you're really respected in mind, but sometimes out of sight, out of mind, you I haven't really given much thought later,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=453.0,496.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it's it's good to go back and think of the things that he represented, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285#t=497.0,499.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146499/file/270285/transcript/78602/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/602/original/azu_ms396-011_side2_a.vtt?1744913458","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/602/original/azu_ms396-011_side2_a.vtt?1744913458"}]}]}]}