{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/q52f76793m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Episode 8710: C.L. Sonnichsen"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["KPOL"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Eyewitness to History videocassettes, MS 685, box 1, tape 8"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Chanin, Abraham S., 1921- (interviewer)","Sonnichsen, C. L. (Charles Leland), 1901-1991 (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1987"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAbraham (Abe) Chanin interviews Southwest United States scholar C.L. Sonnichsen.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["U-Matic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS685.008 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Eyewitness to History videocassettes (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Interviews"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAbraham (Abe) Chanin interviews Southwest United States scholar C.L. Sonnichsen.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/160/215/small/azu_ms685-008_a.mp4_1653498624.jpg?1653498625","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms685-008_a.mp4"]},"duration":1692.053,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/160/215/small/azu_ms685-008_a.mp4_1653498624.jpg?1653498625","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/160/215/original/azu_ms685-008_a.mp4?1653498617","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1692.053,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["MS685-008 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Welcome to eyewitness to history, your personal trip through history. I trip through history as we experienced it and remember it. I trip through Living History. Professor HN, who was a veteran of a half century of Arizona journalism will be your guide. You will visit with some of the state's most important personalities and your neighbors who are eyewitnesses to history. Today's guest is CL Sonics, author of the book Tucson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=19.0,99.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Welcome to eyewitness to history. Our guest today is not a native to Solon. But CL Sonic son has written a marvelous book on the history of Tucson, aptly called Tucson. Mr. Sonic son was educated Minnesota and Harvard, and is now senior editor at the Arizona Historical Society. Mr. Simonson, I was particularly interested in the section of your book Tucson, in which you talked about precarious paradise. Talking about Tucson. What was in your mind when you made that description of Tucson?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=100.0,136.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I wonder how long Tucson is going to be here. We have a water problem. Some people don't think we do and they keep on using too much. And they keep on building more golf courses. And they keep on bringing in more grass and they keep on planting more trees in this desert environment and the water table is going down four or five feet a year and the ground is beginning to subside. CAAP water hasn't got here yet. There are some people who think we will be out of water before the end of this century.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=137.0,165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All right now you were one of the 1000s who chose to come to Tucson to this precarious paradise. Why did you come to Tucson and when did you come to Tucson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=166.0,176.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I came to Sinai in 1972 because I had a job. I retired as as a professor at UTEP in El Paso. And they offered me the editorship of the Journal of Arizona history. And I didn't think I could come. I thought my wife who was a native of El Paso but not want to come so I went home and asked her how would you like to go to Tucson she said when can we leave? She loves Tucson and I love Tucson and we're glad we came. I really think it's almost an ideal place to live.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=177.0,210.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Alright, you made a very interesting point in your book that Tucson really owes its existence to the Santa Cruz River. Now, Santa Cruz river is not really a very impressive body of water, maybe mostly yours not even impressive body of sand. Why do you make that state?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=211.0,229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: JSON has had the same experiences, so many of the world's cities. They are founded on watercourses because of transportation sometimes because of the water supply sometimes because because there are routes, you know, that's where the roads go along the rivers. People like to drink in all senses of the word. I think that that's why Tucson got started here. But I don't think that's exactly why Tucson is here. Now. We're in the in a basin with with a water table underneath. But I don't think this Santa Cruz is contributing very much anymore except in flood times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=230.0,266.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All right. Well, let's move back then. You wrote very vividly about Tucson in its earliest days and how the change came about. And I wish you would talk a little bit about how that change did come to Tucson from its earliest days as a procedural walled city,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=267.0,282.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: right. I think you're giving me a pretty big assignment, but let's just say the Tucson progressed steadily over the centuries. Of course, we didn't really get into a terrific increase in population till the railroad came in 18 180 Then everything opened up and new people could come in, we could get supplies we could we could abandon the old Adobe, which we did and build frame houses, which we did, thereby making it necessary to go to California in the summertime. But with the coming of the railroad boom, time started and we've never stopped doubling the population every 10 years or so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=283.0,319.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But what why was Tucson and poor waste why when another city in southern Arizona important, actually Tucson was outstripping Phoenix in those days? Why was that the case?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=320.0,329.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think mostly on account of the fact that it was on a transcontinental transportation routes stages went through here, the suppliers went through here. Everything went through here it was it was the road. This was the Butterfield stage route. The Butterfield stage came in 1858. But of course, it had been wagon road long before that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=330.0,348.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And wasn't Tucson also a center for mining in the earliest","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=349.0,352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: days. I think you would have to say that, of course, the whole southern part of Arizona was being combed by prospectors. And pretty soon the northern part was being combed by prospectors too. But actually a lot of it's centered right here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=353.0,367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was Tucson like in those days was it was hospitable to live in those days?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=368.0,372.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, it depends on what you mean, by those days, the changes were coming very rapidly before the railroad, it was not a very good place to live. Or at least it was not a good place to live for people who thought you ought to live the way they do in Poughkeepsie, New York,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=373.0,386.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: George J. Ross Brown, who came through here in the early 1864, he wrote a terrible,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=387.0,391.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: terrible description and minor worry who came in here said it was it was the most godforsaken place he ever saw in her life. And nobody could realize that these Adobe houses were good places to live in. They all look similar, so ratty to them, and they didn't have any front yards and trees. It just was a repulsive charter of environments to these people. And we had a lot of folks who were in here that were not very nice to be around, either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=392.0,416.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were they the people that came in the early days? Were the people running away from something in the,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=417.0,422.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of course, some of them were, of course, America was on the move always has been on still is there still going through here, as you know, we have to take care of some of them who can't take care of themselves. But it was true that that there was a trench and population. And I think that everybody who was here was pausing because he was planning to go somewhere else for a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=423.0,444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was there opportunity for those people who who could see it in those early days, of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=445.0,449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: course, of course, and one of the things that the one of the words they love to use about themselves was enterprising, which meant they were looking for chances to make money. And the first people who came in here first Anglos, who were in here were traders, and freighters. And pretty soon politicians, and people who want who were looking for public office, but there are people on the make, you might say, but I don't think that was a bad thing. It's fashionable now to think of them as exploiters. And but I don't think so I think they were just doing like the rest of us. They wanted to make a living and put down their roots.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=450.0,484.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Now we hear a lot of stories of the depredations of the Apaches, Indian tribes. And yet, a lot of the commerce that started early came from the fact that the military had to be posted as territory, yes, to protect the settlers from the Indian. So in a way, there was a beneficial effect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=485.0,502.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, you could say that, of course, they're also brought on a lot of corruption. A lot of people not talking about the Tucson ring of merchants who cricket merchants, which were supposed to have supplied the Indians in the army. I think that's been exaggerated, I think but I think those people took terrible chances. They a wagon train was worth about $25,000. They had to come all the way from Kansas City. Sometimes, every once in a while you'd lose the whole wagon train. And they had three different kinds of enterprises going you had stock and trades you had people that were buying and you had stuff on the road. I think those people were, were very courageous. We'll","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=503.0,539.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: come back to some more stories of those days in just a moment and take a break now. I remember talking before about the difficulties of transportation, the courage that those men felt who, who really worked so hard to move supplies in and out of this area and those early days. You were talking there was a particular date that you wanted to tell us","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=540.0,619.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: about. Oh, I was, that was leapfrogging a little I was thinking about February the seventh 19 110 When we had our first airplane. There, Phoenix had got ahead of us, they had an airshow up there with a couple of aviators, including Mr. Curtis and a fellow named Charles H. Hamilton and Alpes I'm in Tucson didn't want to be outdone. So they put up a couple of $1,000. And they got Charles Hamilton to come down here and fly for them. He didn't he didn't fly down. He had an unzip his airplane, floated on the train, bring it down here and then reassemble it. He had it he had a crew that did that sort of thing. But he flew twice on Saturday and Sunday out at Elysian Grove, made a pretty good flight the first day on Saturday, just one flight, got up to 900 feet through a few miles came back and landed on Sunday at bad luck. He could stop the plane ran into ran into something at the end of the field it did was a pusher biplane, and of course, he had his controls out in front of his elevators, and he smashed his elevators. So that was a kind of tragedy for him. And he fixed his airplane picks it up again, went on to El Paso and crashed and died. Oh my god. So that was that was our initiation. Aviation affairs","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=620.0,698.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: quite a bit different from our Davis Monthan Air Force Bases these days and flying fast moving jets. I want to want you to turn a little bit back to your book again. Now we were talking about some of the the characters who who frequented this area in the 1860s 1870s 1880s and talk about some of these personalities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=699.0,718.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I think the most interesting ones came in the 1850s. Right after the Mexican War, that was when these merchants began to come in here. And we had people like the rotary brothers, you know, and Bill Murray, who was our first real mayor, and his brother, who was Grant Ori who was appointed or elected, our first delegate to the Confederate Congress in Richmond, and he went there and they wouldn't, they wouldn't admit him. But those are interesting people. Oh, Bill already fought two dudes and killed two men in this sound. He was pretty firm citizen,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=719.0,749.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: also led the raid on Camp grant. He was one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=750.0,752.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of the leaders who led the camp grant massacre and justified it all his life and said it had to be done. That was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=753.0,758.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the raid on Apache Indians who were under the care of Army Lieutenant where they were farming and supposedly posted. They were selling. Hey, that infuriated the ring in Tucson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=759.0,769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah. Well, I don't I don't think you should take that too seriously. I don't think that ring was nearly as influential as some people think. But the point was probably and I think it's true, though, for those photos without rating. There weren't there wasn't anybody in camp, you remember, except for old men and women and children when those when the massacre took place where it were those Indians? And of course, it's they felt that they had traced stolen articles to the camp, they found things there that show that they had been reading so there are two sides to this story,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=770.0,798.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: because it's been written from passionate sides and dispassionate sides. And one side says the Indian Braves were out hunting and other says they were out raiding. Yes. And we don't always get a true picture of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=799.0,810.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: history. And we pretty nearly impossible to be sure what the facts are about this. I want to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=811.0,814.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: talk a little bit about one of our early editors who became governor and his wife who is often known as a mother of ours and Elsie Hughes and his wife.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=815.0,823.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I don't know quite as much about him as I do about Bill Murray. But he was an extremely interesting thought and not a very big fellow. And not a very powerful fellow he was, but he had many people who hated him and a month at least he was beaten up and had his arm broken. But he was he was a good man. I think though he was accused of double dealing as governor. I think that was pure politics. But he and his wife were almost painfully virtuous. And she was the one who brought in Francis E. Willard, you know, Francis, he would it was the founder of the WC Gu and they went all over Arizona, they made a trip through Arizona and while they preached the gospel of prohibition, I think there's almost scared Arizona to death because in those days, if you had taken away their liquor, what would they have had?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=824.0,871.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, wasn't she also one time editor of The Arizona weekly star when when LC use her husband went up to be governor of this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=872.0,881.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think she was. I think she was really the person in charge. I think she was the power behind the throne all the way through. I think the problem with her is that she had her picture taken at the wrong time. A picture that we see of her with her head on and her and her watch pin to her breasts and the grim expression. It makes her look like a real battleaxe. At one time, she must have been young and beautiful. But the pictures don't don't let you believe that at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=882.0,905.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tell me a little bit about Sylvester Maori.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=906.0,909.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, he was. He could almost be called the father of Arizona though Charles Poston was he tried as hard as anybody to make a state forest. He was he was New Englander who came down here as lieutenant in the army and was stationed at Fort Yuma where he made history by living with some elegance and always being seen with a ornamental and probably compliant young lady. He was he was quite a latest map and he but he resigned after two years and started up a mining enterprise over toward Patagonia. But his main object was to get this place made into a state he wanted the troops in here. He wanted the the benefits of government supervision and he was in Washington trying to get things done. He wrote a book about it about barbed wires on how to be a state and did his best but he didn't last very well. He died in London.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=910.0,964.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well he also had a rather celebrated duel didn't he?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=965.0,969.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tell me about that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=970.0,970.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: got into a fight with man down at two back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=971.0,972.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, you and the editor down right. I don't remember that. They did each other no damage.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=973.0,976.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, they didn't. But they they they had their little duel that goes down in history and sounds more furious today than probably it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=977.0,984.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: well, I think probably people would like it to have been. But they tried.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=985.0,989.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Alright, we'll take a break now we'll be back in just a Moment. Feel if we go to the movies and we watch television today? Tucson like all of the Old West is glamorized. And everything is aimed at the gun and you think that this place was a land of renegades and Desperados? What was it really like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=990.0,1079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, we had renegades and desperadoes we had plenty. But I think we we make a mistake because people have wanted to assume that this was a jumping off place just like all the other frontier towns. They're always good people. And these these gunmen usually hang around the saloons and cheer each other. They didn't necessarily buy them. In fact, I think Tucson was probably a safer place for women and children 100 years ago than it is right now. They're very safe right now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1080.0,1110.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: might surprise a few people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1111.0,1111.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But one of the things you notice about these early days is that people let each other alone they didn't ask each other who are they came from. They didn't ask each other what their names were and they tried not to get involved in things, let the desperate or shoot each other. And I remembered our first really our first mayor he was not a mayor. He was our first Alcalde 1859 name was Mark Aldrich. He kept the job for just just a very short time because somebody murdered somebody and he couldn't get anybody to come forward and testify or even make an accusation. So he just threw up his hands and said he wasn't gonna do it anymore and he retired from office. I think that would probably pretty well true all over the frontier that you compartmentalize your society and if you thought that the desperate is where the all we had who were wrong, and if you thought the good people were all we had you were wrong. We had everything. We had lynchings and we had lots of stagecoach robberies in the in the 80s. And train robber is beginning in the 90s. And we had we had people like in Tombstone, you know who came up here and made trouble when the herbs came up here and shot somebody. If you generalize about the frontier, you are you carry out well, William Blake's dictum, he said to generalize this to be an idiot who wants to be an idiot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1112.0,1190.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The if you go back and get some of the old Pope. Yes, books that were written in those days. You would think that the West was lived only by the gun. That's right. And it really wasn't an accurate picture, was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1191.0,1203.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it? No, that wasn't an accurate picture at all is the thing was there but I don't think it was dominant by any means. And it depends on where you lived. A new community of Panamanian community, for instance, was apt to be lawless because the law hadn't arrived. But as soon as you could get some, some officials elected and, and get things set up so that somebody was in charge, and it never was really that bad, not a bad place to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1204.0,1227.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Alright, 1885, the University of Arizona is chartered by the Territorial Legislature. Culture came to the territory. How did this did this have a change?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1228.0,1239.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I wouldn't say that that culture was delayed until the university arrived. And I don't think the university brought very much culture, whether that's the start. It was a little agricultural school, you know, and they had a preparatory department, they had as many students who were getting ready for colleges, they had students who were in college, there were always pretty interesting people on the frontier who had backgrounds, I think you can go back to the 50s, again, and you had Peter Brady, his father was secretary to Andrew Jackson, the president. He himself was a midshipman in the United States Navy. And he came down here, and he brought with him something better than the ignorance. And there were he had plenty of friends who were not by any means ignorant, either we had him. And pretty soon we had pianos, and pretty soon we had newspapers. And pretty soon we had books, and it was a case of gradual accumulation. But we were never destitute down here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1240.0,1293.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All right, I want to ask you, when you when you also take a look back period, you see that the men that came in, Anglos, yes. 1850s on Yes, seemed to fit quite well, in with the mostly Hispanic masking population. And there didn't seem to be much difficulty. In fact, when you look at the makeup of the early and governing bodies, it was quite a good mix course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1294.0,1316.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And they got along very well. And why was that? Well, for one thing, these people, these, these good Mexican families had been here a long time, education was hard to come by. But they were ladies and gentlemen, and they had had traditions, and they, they, they they they dressed for special occasions. And they they they were not paleness at all, so that people from back east found themselves in Pleasant communication with people that they understood. And the leaders were beautiful, and they made wonderful wives. And so they everybody married them, and they that was that they spoke Spanish. And you could say they were pretty well, Hispanics as if they stayed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1317.0,1354.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was it an easier period, then for the different groups to get along? That perhaps came to was later?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1355.0,1360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think, I think, definitely that would have been true. And I hate to say this, but I don't think that we really began to diverge from that until we got a lot of American women in here. And when when the intermarriage ceased, and the two groups began to separate, they were no longer inter married and in business together quite as much. Then we began to have problems about acculturation than the two groups. And then that was when the dominant Anglos, they were pretty good, pretty dominant, they tended to take over that was when they began to prosper in the Mexican group began to move farther south in town, you know, away from the center, and little resentments, and uncomfortable feelings began springing up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1361.0,1405.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I want to turn back to your book, which I understand is now out in paperback. I try to one turn to a. And I would recommend to our viewers to this, I think, outstanding book on Tucson, that goes with a book that Bernice cartilage did the earliest book on Tucson and John Bret Hart's book. And if you're going to live here, this is what you should know. Take just a brief moment and tell us the penalties that we pay have paid for becoming the metropolis that we are today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1406.0,1432.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, we we became an American city and and all the things that were true I was when we were in American village ceased to be true. We didn't know each other so well anymore, the town spread out, began to have slums, where we didn't have slums before when there was nothing but a slum. We had more crime, we had more people coming through who didn't belong here. There are bound to be these penalties to pay. But I still think that this is one of the friendliest towns in the world. I think it's one of the most relaxed towns in the world. I think it's one of the best places to live in the world. Since we have air conditioning, and all these other virtues too. I don't see why anybody who wants to live anywhere else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1433.0,1471.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: CL I want to thank you very much for being with us today. It's been a wonderful insight to history. We've learned more about the old Pueblo, and I thank you for being with us. And I hope you'll be back with us next week. Again, for eyewitness to history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215#t=1472.0,1474.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74355/file/160215/transcript/38296/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/038/296/original/azu_ms685-008_a.vtt?1654113586","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/038/296/original/azu_ms685-008_a.vtt?1654113586"}]}]}]}