{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/pc2t43jg6v/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Jim Corbett Interviewed by Miriam Davidson"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan\u003eCopyright held by University of Arizona Libraries.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Miriam Davidson papers, MS 433, box 3, tape 15"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Davidson, Miriam, 1960 (Interviewer)","Corbett, Jim, 1933-2001 (Interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["undated"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan\u003eJim Corbett discusses joint TEC Task Force on Central America and Tucson refugee support group (Tsrg) meetings, their respective missions, and the relationship between the two organizations. He discusses the Naco Five incident, the ORDEN organization, and his larger perception of the Sanctuary Movement and his involvement. He also gives his thoughts on the Sanctuary Trial and its purpose. He details his personal impressions of Judge Earl Carroll and his opinion of the lawyers, the sentencing handed down, and the defense lawyers' reaction to Sanctuary Movement's work to aid refugees while the trial was happening. He describes the relationship between the Tucson and Chicago Sanctuary Movement chapters and how the two contrast. He also discusses Judge Earl Carroll's decision not to imprison Sanctuary Movement members who were found guilty and how the Sanctuary Movement and trial affected him.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS433.015 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Miriam Davidson papers (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Political refugees -- Central America (topical term)","Sanctuary Movement -- Arizona -- Tucson (topical term)","Sanctuary Movement -- United States (topical term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["sound recording--non musical"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan style=\"font-family: 'Times New Roman';\"\u003eJim Corbett discusses joint TEC Task Force on Central America and Tucson refugee support group (Tsrg) meetings, their respective missions, and the relationship between the two organizations. He discusses the Naco Five incident, the ORDEN organization, and his larger perception of the Sanctuary Movement and his involvement. He also gives his thoughts on the Sanctuary Trial and its purpose. He details his personal impressions of Judge Earl Carroll and his opinion of the lawyers, the sentencing handed down, and the defense lawyers' reaction to Sanctuary Movement's work to aid refugees while the trial was happening. He describes the relationship between the Tucson and Chicago Sanctuary Movement chapters and how the two contrast. He also discusses Judge Earl Carroll's decision not to imprison Sanctuary Movement members who were found guilty and how the Sanctuary Movement and trial affected him.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan style=\"font-family: Roboto, Arial; font-size: 15px; background-color: #ffffff;\"\u003eCopyright held by University of Arizona Libraries.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms433-015_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2790.864,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/075/679/original/azu_ms433-015_side2_a.mp3?1586279885","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":2790.864,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Corbett_3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Can I Set it up here on the dashboard. Or I could just hold it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1.09,5.53"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Anyway, it looks like (inaudible).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=5.88,6.909"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. I'm a little confused about the roles of the TEC and the TRSG. I guess I want to go back to the day of the indictment. And what was going on then was the TRSG doing what it's doing now? I mean, how are they? How are they coexisting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=12.55,36.71"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e At the time the indictments came out. TRSG and TEC really weren't in operation. Very much distinguished from each other, however. They were separate. That is, there had been a period during the time when the. Infiltration was occurring that TRSG and TEC functions were essentially merged.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=38.23,71.76"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e That is on our Monday night meetings that were TEC meetings, those also attended to the everyday TRSG business and about the time that Jesus Cruz ceased to be infiltrating. It was decided that it would probably be better if we did kind of have some specialization between the two and therefore they intended to split. They were only joined really, in practice about the time that Jesus Cruz was infiltrating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=71.9,92.627"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Bad Timing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=118.74,119.74"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Although there there's always an overlap, you know, with different people having different jobs, doing a lot of different things. In other words, the same people tend to be involved and you have different meetings to take care of specialized functions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=121.45,137.079"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So the TEC was doing more social services?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=139.55,142.27"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. You see, TEC was set up initially. The program was not set up to do any of the border work at all. And then it was in, I think, February of 1983 that it was a full meeting of the members of the Tucson Medical Council. It was voted for TEC to to take on regular sanctuary work, which is primarily sanctuary networking with other with other organizations, with other congregations around the country and not the border work. But then those people who were the regular staff for TEC were very much involved in the border work. So there was a period where it was just convenient to do everything on Monday afternoon when the TEC meeting occurred.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=143.73,208.789"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Then I think it was this half. This was true through the summer of 84 and a lot of folks with TRSG were gone. And the usual Tucson situation of having being kind of shorthanded through the summer when the summer was over. So this would have been probably. Early September, I asked some of the returning to TRSG folks, I remember Jack Farrell in particular, but there were several whether they thought that we ought simply to merge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=209.99,248.024"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e and have everyone gather on Monday at the TEC meeting and there was a feeling that, no, it was better just to go ahead and keep the regular TRSG, separate meetings and so forth, because I've forgotten what all the reasons were. I think some of them were that Monday afternoon meeting was structured more people who were staff and clergy and whatnot. You kept to a Monday afternoon meeting that. At any rate, it has decided to reinstitute a separate TRSG consideration, so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=249.365,290.779"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e TRSG, Well, the name came up, as I recall, even in the translations they got it wrong. So they never really seem to know what the border action structure was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=297.399,313.329"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well, it didn't matter because The way they. Structured the prosecution.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=313.73,322.269"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So, yeah, that was kind of another question I wanted to ask you about. There's some. I don't know if you if you recall the what happened at that albathersa meeting, but do you know, what was it that he said the tape had run out or something? And then he was talking about what was said. You recall what, you know, the errors that he made or.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=327.03,360.209"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't remember, now. Let's see. What did he say about it? I can't I can't remember what was covered after. Oh, is that where some of that stuff about having where Bill was supposed to have said Send them down the river.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=360.21,376.99"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Riding on Bicycle's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=377.27,379.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well. I think the bicycle thing may have come up as just one of those things where there are lots of different ways for people to Get out of profile So I suspect there was some mention of bicycles with regard to walking down the Santa Cruz. There's nothing dangerous like going out on the desert route walking to Tucson by way of the Santa Cruz River.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=379.54,405.364"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe it was the. We've got to right that wrong. You say we have to do what's instrumentally valuable as well. Maybe that was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=408.16,415.6"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that that may have been, but I think that may have been on tape itself. I you know. In terms of what I was thinking, I mean, people on that we have to what is instrumentally value, most people wonder what on earth I had in mind. And I think that's what I was thinking about. There was simply the fact that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=416.06,448.04"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't, you see John said something about righting the wrong of what they were doing. In this case. Small student group had an office in the Seminary there in Mexico City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=452.2,468.299"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e And they were they were trying to force her to go to public sanctuary? Is that it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=472.72,476.471"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Or at least giving her a hard time because she didn't want to. And what I had in mind, I'm sure, was the fact that folks up here might think that we could change the outlook of very political folks in Mexico City. But that what we had to do in working with them was simply ignore their biases and do what would have some impact. Because, you know, after working with a few of those doctrinaire groups, I knew that you weren't going to explain to them what they were doing was inhuman or whatever and get them to change their approach. They don't work that way. They think more like generals waging a war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=476.87,533.19"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e And. So my what I was really I know from my what I was. Feeling and thinking at that meeting. In the context of that statement was don't waste time trying to correct the structure of various groups in Mexico City simply do what is instrumentally valuable. What's needed by the person and the persons there without trying to reform other organizations. So I know that was my intent wasn't clear what I had in mind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=535.19,576.359"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the impression that was given in the trial was that the TEC was trying to force the people to go into public sanctuary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=576.65,583.463"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e No, that was very clearly not the case.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=583.464,586.669"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Because that was the way Bud Cruz and Dixon portrayed it that someone said she didn't want to go into public sanctuary. And then John said, we have to right that wrong. That was the way they left it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=588.69,599.372"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e That wrong that he was righting was the fact people in this organization in Mexico City were giving her a hard time and trying to keep her from getting aid because they didn't want to go in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=599.679,629.515"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e And that was the tape that Steve tried to get in and they said no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=631.33,634.299"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I think it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=635.56,636.56"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. You remember when it was that you crossed Juana?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=639.62,643.438"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Pardon me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=645.15,646.15"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e That you and Juana came up, the dates?.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=646.71,648.585"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I think it's I remember it was indicated in the transcript because Jesus Cruz arrived late and tried to chase us and catch us after we'd already headed south through Mexico.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=654.935,672.779"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So maybe it was in April, probably sometime?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=673.05,674.373"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e The dates? It would be in July but I somewhere around July. July 21st comes to mind, but I don't know if that's accurate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=674.374,686.94"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=687.09,688.09"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So when and why did you decide to start doing country crossings? Was there a specific reason why you switched over to that from just going through Nogales? It's just much less risky?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=694.25,709.699"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e It depended on which on the circumstances with the people being crossed. For example, with Juana, there were two people, two Guatemalans who had come up along with her who did cross in Nogales. Now, in her case, I felt that her experience with Mexican immigration or traumatization meant that she would just come across if she were a part. If they could if they caught hotter or even if she tried using some kind of false I.D. to go through the port of entry, that she just would would melt and just she'd been so severely traumatized that if she were caught it would have been just general disaster.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=711.37,764.519"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e So there was just no way to risk having her on the streets. Some of the problem with with this has to do with the fact that. You can usually tell whether a refugee is likely to be successful at a city crossing. If you can get any idea of how cool that person is, and the reason is that if people are on the street in a place like Nogales going the few blocks to Sacred Heart Church and are confident, they're gonna make it. But if they are Nervous that there's a predator prey relationship on all of these things with the or the ah, where you have cops or others after folks who are initially simply suspected because they don't look right now what you have is is the fact that there are certain ways that you can spot folks who are nervous there's all kinds of body language and predators and cops and crooks of various kinds are pretty good at spotting prey. And if people don't look like prey, they often don't have problems and it's really an amazing kind of situation when you watch it, where a person who is fairly confident can usually just go right through the center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=765.34,897.1"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah Father Sinner is a good example. For example, there was one case where a refugee coming through at Nogales. Came through the hole in the fence that is right above the pedestrian crossing and goes in to the back side of the shopping area in Nogales next to the pedestrian crossing. Just as he got down there, a patrol came zooming in on him and he went in a back door of one of the major shops there. I think it was something like Woolworth's. I don't remember. At any rate. He had found some car keys in Mexico City that were on the pavement. He picked them up. There was another patrol that was radioed in that came right in. Zooming in on the exit on the front part of the building that is into the main street there and was out there waiting for him. Now they had a general description of him. But as he came out, he simply as, though, not thinking about this, just going about his business, started toying with his jangling his keys and his complete confidence and just that symbol of the keys him go right by them. Now, if he would have looked like prey, he would have had it. And there was no way that Juana after what she experienced, even in the streets of Mexico City, any time you saw her didn't look like prey. So there was just no way to try to cross her in the city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=897.64,1018.629"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e What about this Naco 5 incident was that. Do You know, I mean, I've heard of this woman who was awed or something. That's all I've ever heard about her. Is there? Do you know her details of her story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1028.88,1039.266"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e There were seven refugees, most of whom were children.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1040.25,1048.739"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e It was her her four children and two men, two men who were a separate group. Is that it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1049.19,1054.433"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e No, let's see. I can't remember the composition now but there was a of the family that was identified with a right wing group with ORDEN. There was a young woman, a very young woman, I can't remember. Whether she was she may have been in her twenties at twenty or twenty one, she may have been still teenaged. I can't remember and also I think her brother was an adult, again, young had never had anything to do with it then and had been in a group of students who had been stopped at the bus had been stopped so that they were on. I think it was and had been turned loose while many of the others had been murdered, probably because of that, the fact that I think the father was a known member of ORDEN.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1054.613,1135.42"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e And so the young woman was the only one who had ever had anything to do with attending organizational meetings or anything of that sort. Now, remember, that order was organized to get peasants on the side of the military and the government. So it was in addition to being involved in death squad activities, something like the VFW and various things socially getting together, Knights of Columbus, all sorts of things like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1139.25,1171.49"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e And it had definite advantages for those who belonged in that they didn't get murdered when they were stopped at roadblocks. So people belong. For many reasons. Now, whatever the this family's involvement in the activities of ORDEN may have been certainly a young woman in El Salvador. In a right wing organization does not go around in the middle of the night killing people. And the father himself had been hacked apart, murdered another member of the family. A woman had been gang raped and was not with the family at the time they arrived simply because she was still in Mexico, having just given birth to the child that resulted from that gang rape. And the family had been definitely targeted because they were known members of ORDEN. Then they were they had reason to think that milk delivered to the house had been poisoned and other such things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1172.59,1252.99"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So it was her. And there were two kind of teenage boy teenagers? You don't recall the composition of the group?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1256.02,1262.39"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the I can't remember the exact ages. I remember at the ages I put in the letter to Ruthanne Meyers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1263.338,1272.675"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have a copy of that letter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1276.26,1277.373"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e No. There's a copy, although it may not include the ages and all of that and the borders and the borders and crossings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1277.374,1287.4"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I gave my copy to Vince and never got it back. But that has the it doesn't show the family. So it wasn't her children anyway. She was a well or two infants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1287.9,1303.569"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I don't know whether it may have been that she had children there. It's more likely that I think the brother and his wife. May have had this. I don't remember whose children were whose at any rate it was simply a family that had been targeted because of that known public affiliation with ORDEN.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1303.63,1328.79"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e And and there was never any evidence linking them with the death squad killings or anything like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1330.06,1341.64"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e No. No. Just that they were. Publicly known members of ORDEN who had spoken, gone to rallies and organizational meetings. It may be that something was known back in El Salvador about the father who was hacked apart with machetes. But probably there was nothing it would have been the most extraordinary thing in the world for any woman to be involved in night raids by death squads. I've never heard of anything like that. So the assumption would be that the woman would neither have been involved in planning nor in the execution of any death squad murders.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1342.22,1387.369"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e And the two boys, they were an unrelated group, the two young men.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1389.19,1393.009"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let's see. No. There there there was another group that was targeted. Catechists that made it through at the same time that those seven were taught and those that was a family of catechist that had suffered terribly from the government. You know, they had members killed been tortured and so forth. Interestingly enough, they became very close friends with this other family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1393.85,1431.259"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, you know, a lot of these doctrinaire notions of how people line up politically and what it means to belong to ORDEN or whatever are not very accurate indicators of reality. Sometimes people join something like ORDEN for a lot of reasons. People who travel together and risk things together have personal likings and dislikings that bond them together, regardless of their ideological outlook.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1431.27,1467.619"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course, there was all kinds of uproar as folks around the United States heard that we were providing sanctuary services for people who had been connected with ORDEN and at the same time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1481.48,1500.227"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, even here in Tucson. Or It wasn't there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1502.079,1503.444"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there was one person who went tearing all around, making a big uproar about it but it it had more to do with her own personal interests and so forth, I think since than with the fact that she was automatically opposed to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1503.47,1519.88"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, what the other defendants?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1519.881,1520.952"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's see, there. Oh yeah. Well there was there would have been some of the other that there were one or two of the other defendants that are fairly doctrinaire on those things most of the defendants, certainly the regular TEC folks and the Mexican connection, you know, would be very firm and always helping all refugees regardless of their political origins. There's just never been any question and never any doubt on that. So.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1522.079,1559.801"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So but what the lawyers were complaining about that was something different. They were just upset that this had happened at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1565.82,1572.67"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, the lawyers of course who are concerned about what the jury's perceptions were and and what was were they reading in the paper and all that sort of thing, if anything at all. So the lawyers perceptions were simply that they didn't like anything appearing about activities of this kind, that that would cause an uproar. Of course they could see that the government decided to prosecute was going to target me, as the face. I mean, I was the signer of the letter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1573.65,1610.49"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So that was it. They took you to task for sending along this letter or getting involved in things where you were on trial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1610.85,1618.97"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I think that that plus the simple the simple fact that it was coming out in the news. They didn't want any indication that anything was happening at that time. And of course we'd been very clear about the fact that these efforts were going to continue. But as, which was something the lawyers didn't want to come out at all, for example, the statement that was read on the courthouse steps when we were indicted saying we were going to continue and whatnot. The lawyers did not like that. And by the time that this other happened, the lawyers had more influence, I think, on some of the folks perceptions than they had during the first stages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1620.9,1677.49"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think also because of that, because of the ORDEN connection that made people less willing to be publicly supportive of what had happened?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1678.97,1686.957"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Only in one or two cases among the lawyers, only one person who was not a lawyer expressed any concern about that connection. That is one of the assistants and beyond that expression, there was no indication among the lawyers and their assistants of concern about the political alignment, although one or two of one of the lawyers would have may have said something simply because she is very, very specifically aligned politically. I think she might have but I can't remember that she did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1688.78,1737.549"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it was all how it could affect the case. That was the one thing the lawyers were really focusing on at that point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1745.35,1753.02"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e And they thought the jury might be reading the paper anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1753.35,1755.9"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e They made that assumption all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1756.36,1757.97"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, fatal mistake to assume that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1758.81,1761.989"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Most juries, especially if they realize that they're not being told what's going on will, in fact, read a paper, at least that was what the lawyers mostly had concluded from their own previous experience. Let's see, Is this the turn on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1763.31,1781.339"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's the next one. Sorry. My fault.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1782.83,1788.063"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, apparently this wasn't a jury that was very independent about such matters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1796.8,1804.499"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the judge, I guess he. You know, with his constant admonitions and stuff it really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1804.75,1811.601"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that's Standard but usually juries aren't that docile.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1813.16,1815.02"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. If they're not sequestered, I guess. Did you have any impressions of the judge? Personal impressions of the judge that you think are, you know, other other than just observing his behavior in court or stuff? is there anything any kind of psychological analysis of him that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1815.49,1843.92"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, Philosophically I commented on various at various times about the fact that he was neo-Hobbesian. There was a report that he had told one of his associates that he thought the fate of Western civilization depended on this case, which may have been apocryphal. I don't know whether it was true or not, but it's true that his behavior and decisions very consistent were neo-Hobbesian, that is regardless of what is right or wrong or just whatever the authority was to obeyed. Clearly, he was concerned with getting obedience to authorities, not necessarily to the law. Yeah, very neo-Hobbesian in output. I made a comment early on that was fairly clear through the trial about is Jimmy Cagney complex. That is when a tall attorney or a tall person like John came to his attention and stood up in front of him or whatever, you could see that he dislikes tall people. I thought he was much shorter than he actually was simply because he had such a reaction to tall people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1845.03,1921.82"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe that's why Brosnahan upset him so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1924.28,1926.41"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that's one of the reasons Brosnahan had problems. Steve had problems initially. Steve, what I think was such an immaculately good lawyer so logical and never ruffled that He did win. I think he I think he won the judges respect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1926.829,1946.239"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's so smart, too. And he really knows his law and could make the judge. The judge had to agree with him on certain points. You know, like Reno just hadn't made a good faith effort to find Juana and stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1946.34,1961.99"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, of couse on Juana that on the co-conspiratorial hearsay issue the fact that they had that INS memo to the INS itself brought in made it so the judge couldn't do anything else. That was that was an astounding thing. And it showed considerable incompetence on the part of the INS of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1965.98,1987.332"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. That they put that that kind of thing in writing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1988.54,1990.75"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e And then they would send their guy in there without having checked what what they were bringing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1991.84,1995.589"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, he brought it himself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1996.22,1997.538"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. It arrived with that guy that they brought in from Rochester. I've forgotten exactly how it came out but it was right in the written stuff that he had with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=1997.73,2007.796"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, this hooks in not so much with these narrow refugee issues, so much as sanctuary. And the whole development of a land ethic that in which there is protective symbiotic community network. So that I think my attitudes with regard to the refugees, the reasons I took the course of action I did were very much formed by this other broader attitude towards the fact that. Human beings have an enormous responsibility to bring into full reflective consciousness a community that does live, that does exist among all living things, that life is in fact among us rather than in us. And that. Definitely has a bearing on my understanding of what sanctuary is, and sanctuary in its broadest sense extends far beyond Central America. And specific central to specific human and human refugees to the need for a harmonious. Community among all. All that lives. So it's it's definitely related, but isn't something that grows out of the specific experience with refugees. Although I think it's modified and perhaps extended. By the experience of the last five or six years. Mm hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2013.48,2122.07"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e What about. I mean, the Chicago thing, is that all died down hopefully?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2122.81,2125.832"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I think that the Chicago issue is one that. At least from our point of view, can be ignored. They can declare themselves the upper case national sanctuary movement or get a group of activists to get together at a national meeting and declare it. And it will have nothing to do with the actual sanctuary services that will go on being lower case sanctuary, whatever other groups want to use the name or stage sanctuary, street theater. And at this point. As long as as our networking is not integrated in such a way that what we are doing is subverted by what Chicago is doing, I don't see any problem organizationally at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2125.833,2175.069"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e What about more arrests and trials?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2177.35,2179.959"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that's a possibility at this point I have a feeling that the INS got so thoroughly burnt. That they will not want to do it again for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2183.02,2193.359"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean that kind of undercover operations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2193.64,2195.369"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e That have a regular trial. They may want to have a grand jury effort which could salt us away without the problems of regular legal examination.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2195.37,2207.65"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e How come they couldn't use the tapes. You said they couldn't use the tapes before a grand jury. Is that because they didn't a court order. Why couldn't they use the tapes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2207.82,2214.895"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't understand the context.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2216.0,2217.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember you saying that they went with the trial. Probably because they couldn't use the tapes before a grand jury, or something. They'd already gone to the trouble of this infiltration and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2218.74,2232.219"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, well, that the tapes wouldn't be of any special use. The grand jury wouldn't need it. The grand jury just calls you up and when you refuse to testify, as you would have to do with regard to very confidential information about refugees and those helping them, then they just salt you away. They don't have to worry about evidence. So I think that maybe the context of whatever I said.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2232.48,2252.178"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e But did they know that you would refuse to testify.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2253.142,2255.79"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I think they could come to a very. Well, instructed understanding of that, in fact, they did have some the response that I had given to Chicago the December twenty six letter of 84, in which I pretty well spelled it out I think as well. And it had been spelled out in other things that we had circulated pretty widely. So, yes, I think they could assume that we would insist that this was confidential. Had grown out of particular ministry that we couldn't betray and they would know that. They could probably salt this away for a long time without having to bother with juries and trials and evidence and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2256.54,2309.076"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e And it could be that while the INS has gotten terribly burnt, Meese and the FBI and others may want to do something of their own. So it doesn't rule out the possibility. If I'm correct in my assessment of further trials even. But at this moment, I think many government people feel that they have taken they've paid a heavy price. And that perhaps we're getting too close to the next presidential election. For another sanctuary trial, anything like the one that happened this time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2311.26,2348.277"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess they're hoping that. Well, I don't know what they're planning to do about Central America because there certainly going to be more refugees, not less with CONTRA wars.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2349.93,2358.89"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, now the the extreme position of the administration on refugee issues may lead to further trials or a grand jury. New political use of a grand jury, because I found it. Instructive that the Reagan administration was ready to veto the entire immigration act, which they liked, which was something they'd been working for. If it had a halt to the deportation of Salvadorans already in the country. In other words, it wasn't even a halt to the deportation of Central Americans in general or Guatemalans. And it wasn't a halt to the deportation of new Salvadorans coming in. The fact that the administration is so determined to deny refuge to those fleeing the conflict in Central America would indicate that they put a very high priority on the military strategy. That depends on having no refuge for the folks where military pacification is being used. Therefore, it could be that even if the INS got burnt and wants out, that the other people in the administration will push for further direct action against sanctuary, because sanctuary is in fact now established and is going to increasingly be a force for the protection of refugees as they pour out of Central America or other places. If the refugees rights are being denied by the government.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2361.12,2423.154"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Is is the INS a part of the Department of Justice? Is it their parent agency?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2455.868,2462.856"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e It's part of it. Yes. But it the the Department of Justice Justice, the local U.S. attorney, can certainly take action brought by the FBI. Perhaps in other contexts. I don't know the mechanics, so I don't know whether the the INS also can be easily overruled. It's one of the weak departments in terms of the bureaucracy where State Department Meese. The Defense Department all can tell what the INS what it has to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2463.52,2498.829"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, since they don't have any constituency to be accountable to. Um, did you think of the sentencing? Why is it did he decided in advance that he was going to, that they were going to not jail people?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2499.93,2513.09"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know. I doubt that he decided that and then that that very much in advance. And I think he did want to put on conditions they couldn't live with. But he the way it came out, he realized that he'd simply opened up an enormous church state can of worms and trying to put those conditions on because it would necessitate forcing a nun to give up her vows to be a member of that order. A pastor to give up his church and other such things where he just had to back away on it. I think that very probably his decision could have been related to the strong urgings of people like Senator DeConcini, who got him his appointment to, you know, not to imprison people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2514.39,2564.29"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I mean, because he had a letter from him. I mean, he didn't mention it, but he did mention other letters that he'd gotten. Specifically, said that that influenced him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2565.75,2575.158"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, DeConcini got him his appointment with Carter primarily because he was the Phelps Dodge lawyer and would protect Phelps Dodge interests from federal legislation. But the fact is that one, if a judge while he has tenure, if he wants further considerations, if he simply turns on the person, the very person who got him his appointment. That undoubtedly has to weigh something when the senator is asking him to be considered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2576.062,2611.73"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e So he he represented Phelps Dodge when he was at that Phenix law firm?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2616.42,2620.212"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e That was mainly what that law firm did Phelps Dodge and Southern Pacific and Phelps Dodge very much wants federal court judges who will have an understanding of their point of view with regard to environmental protection legislation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2620.34,2636.439"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e It's funny that the label, Democrat and Republican, don't mean much with that level. With all giants of business and industry, people who run the government. Oh, yeah. You had also said at one point that if you had to do all over again, probably, wouldn't or something. I wonder if you meant that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2637.87,2665.263"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't know. I mean, I probably I didn't mean it in that. You know, if faced with the refugees, I would respond. At the same time, I certainly at this point I would have a difficult time putting the concentrated energy into it. I think that my level of compassion has been greatly reduced by by those events where. I don't know that I would have the stamina. To go through another 1981 example. But yeah, if all of a sudden refugees start arriving from Venezuela or Afghanistan and the government's getting them, I guess I'd have to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2665.41,2723.54"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e But at the same time, I will say that that people farther away from the border show much more concern and compassion than I think I I would have at the time, that is, if I weren't confronted with the actual refugees. But were just hearing about it. I don't think that I would go way out of my way to try to aid them. And I would probably be very much for those people who do. But I wouldn't be putting much energy into it myself. So it was simply there, that personal presence that I think triggered my involvement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2727.43,2764.949"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJim Corbett:\u003c/strong\u003e More than. A more general, say, Principle. that could trigger it. Even when I wasn't meeting with people concerned.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2767.9,2774.27"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMiriam Davidson:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that has a lot to do with why Chicago is taking a stand. It has to. There's not the immediate social service concern.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679#t=2777.82,2789.214"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/910/collection_resources/18692/file/75679/transcript/8978/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/008/978/original/azu_ms433_015_side2_a.vtt?1586280425","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/008/978/original/azu_ms433_015_side2_a.vtt?1586280425"}]}]}]}