{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/p26pz53g84/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Sen. John McCain"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 2, tape 51"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","McCain, John, 1936-2018 (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2002-01-25"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Phoenix (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with John McCain conducted by Julie Ferdon. McCain was on the Interior Committee, where Morris Udall was the chair, and the two met in 1983. McCain discusses how Udall took him \"under his wing\" when he came to Congress, even though the two were from different parties. Udall suggested that McCain took on Native American affairs from the Republican side."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.023 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with John McCain conducted by Julie Ferdon. McCain was on the Interior Committee, where Morris Udall was the chair, and the two met in 1983. McCain discusses how Udall took him \"under his wing\" when he came to Congress, even though the two were from different parties. Udall suggested that McCain took on Native American affairs from the Republican side."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms396-023_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1977.216,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/298/original/azu_ms396-023_side1_a.mp3?1744847823","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1977.216,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, this is tape number 51 of the Morse K Udall Oral History Project. Good morning. It's Friday, January 25 the year 2002 and we're in the office of Senator John McCain in Phoenix, Arizona. My name is Julie ferdon, and I would like to thank you, Senator for participating in this project. It's a pleasure. I understand. We don't have much time, so I'm going to hit the ground running. In 1982 you were first elected to the House of Representatives and later elected to the Senate to replace Senator Goldwater. Had you met mo before you went to the House of Representatives? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=0.0,36.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had not. I had been to a couple of gatherings where he spoke, but, but I had never personally met Mo, do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=37.0,45.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you remember the first time you met him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=46.0,49.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, it was in January of 1983 and I received assignment to the interior committee with which he was the chair, which was my first choice. And I went, I went to see him, and hit it off with him. Immediately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=50.0,69.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You've said that Moe, a liberal Democrat, took you a conservative Republican under his wing when you came to Congress. In what way? Well, first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=70.0,81.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of all, on interior committee. The first thing he did was recommend that I seek the responsibility for Indian issues, for the Republicans. There was no subcommittee for Indian Affairs, due to the fact that nobody wanted a subcommittee. A guy named Meeks from Washington had gotten beat because he was perceived the so the story went that he was too sympathetic to Native Americans, and he had been defeated. So the So mostly, I can't do something about so mo suggested that I that I be the Republican for Indian Affairs, and I was the junior guy, and he asked Manuel Lujan, later, Secretary of the Interior, if he would, if I could have that designation. And Manuel Lujan basically made it happen, since it was a Republican decision, and he and Manuel, Lujan got along well, and so that was the first meeting that we had of many, many, many meetings that we were together. He was the most popular man in the house that was proven by a vote that the Democrat caucus had confirming the committee chairman, he was always the one that was voted unanimously by the Democrat caucus. And so the interior committee was very busy. This is before his Parkinson's became impactful to him, and so we literally would have hearings almost every day and and so I interfaced with him with great regularity. And one anecdote was that that first, first year he he told me that during one of the breaks, which I think was like March or April, that he was going to go back to Arizona and have a news conference in Casa Grande to talk about all the issues about that affected and the interior committee that affected Arizona. And he invited me to attend. I knew very little about these issues. One of the reasons why I was so intent on getting on the interior committee was so I could learn some of these issues because of great importance to the state of Arizona. But anyway, he he and I drove down together from Phoenix and to Casa Grande, and we had this press conference. All the Arizona media was there, and he would constantly say, Well, Congressman McCain and I are working on this issue, working on that issue, working on this issue together. In the interest of Straight Talk, most of them, I didn't have a clue what those issues. Anything about those issues was that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=82.0,273.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: unusual for a Democrat to invite Republicans?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=274.0,277.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Very unusual. How about other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=278.0,279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: members of the Arizona delegation? Did they? Did they also take you under their wing? No, no,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=280.0,287.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there was. I mean, we got along, all right. I mean, we rarely saw the senators, Goldwater and deaconsini. I. Which is not unusual. And the other members of the House were Jim McNulty, who was new when I was Eldon Rudd and Bob Stump and Mo so I didn't, I didn't have a lot of interface with either Rudd or stump McNulty some because he, I believe, was also on the interior committee. I think, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=288.0,326.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he wasn't really, yeah, and you were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=327.0,328.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: both freshmen. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=329.0,332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you've also said that Moe, more than anyone else, taught you how to do your job in Washington. How did he go about them doing that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=333.0,342.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: mainly by example, and I, and I fell far short of his performance, because I am some degree, was less mature and also more temperamental. And he I, in other words, my passion sometimes spills over into into anger, and Mo never did that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=343.0,368.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You never saw him angry. I saw him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=369.0,373.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I saw him passionate, but I never saw him display anger. I'm sure I saw him at times when he was angry, but I never saw him display it. In fact, the opposite when things would get very tense, that's when most keen sense of humor would would enter in. He would always at the right appropriate time tell a joke. Might have been the 100th time I'd heard the same joke, but it fit so appropriately at the time that it would diffuse the tension of the of the situation, whether it be in a hearing or a meeting where very tough issues were discussed. So he taught me a lot. I've often regretted that I was unable to emulate him to the degree that I would have liked to have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=374.0,417.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you've also you've also mentioned Barry Goldwater as a mentor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=418.0,425.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, Barry and I, he was certainly a mentor, I mean, a role model in that. Barry spoke plainly. He he let the chips fall where they may. His honesty and his forthrightness were, I think, one of his great virtues, and in that way, he was a role model to me, but Barry and I were never close. He was in the Senate when I was in the house, and then I took his place in the Senate. Got along with him. I showed him the respect that he deserved, but I never had the close relationship with Him that I had with Mo Mo hat and Barry had a very close relationship, but I never had the interface with Barry. And when I really was starting to get get to know Barry, he was really in a lot of pain, a lot with his with his knees and his hips. And you know, it was constant. It was constantly painful to him because of his knee replacements and hip replacements. So I, as much as I would have liked to have had the kind of relationship with Barry that I had with Mo it just never was more timing and availability. Because, you know, working together with Moe for four years in the House, on his committee and on same issues, particularly wilderness bills, where we spent hundreds of hours together and on the issues of, for example, Navajo Hopi relocation, which he made a valiant attempt to solve and he and I met, I can't tell you the number of hours with the Hopi and Navajo leadership. Unfortunately, we never succeeded, but it wasn't through Mo's lack of effort. So I spent all those hours and hours, hundreds of hours, with Mo, working with him on issues. I never had that opportunity with Barry. How was mo to work with? Lovely, lovely. He understood the issues, and he had a keen sense of timing and how what the chances are. And you know, he was a consummate politician. That's why more legislation always came out of the interior committee than any other committee in Congress while he was the chairman. So part of that was because a broad range of issues, but another part of it was that Mo was very effective. I mean, I was not there during probably the biggest fight of his career, the Alaska. Alaska. Lands bill, yeah, lands bill, I guess. And it took him years, years and years, but he prevailed on one of the major landmark pieces of legislation, still controversial to this day, but more and more Americans, I think, who. Theory that Moe was right, as America becomes more and more environmentally sensitive,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=426.0,602.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was it, as he said, they were. They were now waving at him with more than one finger","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=603.0,609.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Trent. What do you think made Moe so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=610.0,612.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: effective as a legislator and so popular as a legislator?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=613.0,618.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it was obviously his humor, it was obviously his grasp of the issues. It was his willingness to to work with people. But he was always also a great schmoozer. I mean, he was a great schmoozer. I've seen him go up the guy, how's your family, how's, you know, yeah, I was in, I was in South Carolina once, yeah, I think I was in it, you know. I mean, he was extremely good on a People to People basis. But remember, Moe was also a great reformer. He fought the system. He ran against the leadership. He lost, but he made fundamental changes in the way that Congress does business. Even though he lost, he won in the end, but he did lose, and, you know, an interest of straight talk, he had some very tragic aspects of his personal life, which which are terribly moving as we know, as we all know, but in some ways make him, in my mind, even a greater figure because of the personal travail that he experienced. You're speaking on the city of the death of his wife, suicide of his wife, this breakup of his first marriage, that long period of illness, which was so terrible in the last few years. You know? I mean, it's really a sad, sad story in many respects, but yet, one of the great pleasures in my life is to see Mark. Because when I see Mark, I see Mo. I mean, I literally see Mo. And it's a wonderful thing to see that legacy passed on, not only to mark, but also to Tom. So Mark even","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=619.0,717.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: looks amazing. I like him now more so every day","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=718.0,721.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it is starting, and he has the same wonderful disposition at moha,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=722.0,726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: how is he, as a legislator, for my experience, oh, he's fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=727.0,730.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He's gonna, he's he's gonna be great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=731.0,733.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And how about Tom? Udall, Tom's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=734.0,735.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: just fine. Too. Little different personality, more like Stu naturally, but he'll be fine too. I see Mark is more of an environmentalist and Tom, although certainly environmentalist, a lot more of a judiciary kind of, because he was an attorney general and all that. So they may have little bit different high priorities. Not to say that Tom isn't committed environmentalist. He is, but he's also had that background in as the Attorney General of the State, we see, I see a little bit difference","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=736.0,769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: here. Do you get a sense of whether, I mean, they're both, I believe, in their second term. Do you get a sense of whether, how effective they're being both","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=770.0,778.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of both of them. Both of them are very highly regarded. Both of them are highly regarded. It takes time in the house, though it really does. It takes time. It's not like the Senate. Senate, you can come in and get going right away. The seniority system in the house works, but mo but both Tom and Mark are already carving out niches.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=779.0,799.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, despite Moe's efforts, the system is still there. I keep thinking how proud Moe would be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=800.0,807.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Mo and Stuart, yeah, absolutely, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=808.0,812.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: mentioned Mo's humor, did he was his humor something he primarily used for certain purposes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=813.0,820.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, see, anybody can tell a funny joke in politics, anybody can. Mo's magic was that he would tell the right joke at the right time. In other words, it wasn't just mo giving a speech and give throw a couple of throwaway jokes. I mean, Mo things would be tense, and he'd say, well, that reminds me of a story, and that story would then put the discussion or the issue in a much better perspective, as well as diffuse the tensions in the room. So his, his great humor was not the fact that he'd memorized 1000 jokes which he had, many of which he recycled many, many times. But his his great talent, which was unique, is that he used the humor at the right time for the desired effect, and that that was the difference between that and ordinary politicians. Ordinary politicians all memorize a certain number of jokes and tell them before any gathering or dinner or whatever it is, Mo would had that, of course, but he had it a lot better. I mean, his, you know, I mean the people who else but Mo, could have said, the people have spoken the bastards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=821.0,892.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Who else but Mo, you do, except maybe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=893.0,894.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Anne Udall, yeah, I think maybe so. And how? Has a similar sense of humor. I noticed, as you know, Mo ran for president in 1976 and lost. What kind of a president do you think he would have made?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=895.0,909.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think he made a wonderful president. I think he would have moved Teddy Roosevelt's agenda along, both in the area of reform as well as environmental issues. He knows how the you knew how the congress works very well. You know, he'd have been, he'd been an extremely effective president. The only person I ever heard Moe express any resentment towards ever was Jimmy Carter. He didn't he felt that some of the tactics used in the presidential campaign by the Carter campaign were not appropriate, and he never discussed in detail. But I must say, the only person that I that I never heard Moe have a kind word for, was was President Carter. And I can understand that lucky, you know, they went through a tough campaign, finished second 20 times. You know, little bit of difference and and he would have been President. Oh, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=910.0,961.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, yeah. I've read a number of things if, if red Harris, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=962.0,968.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: always what might have been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=969.0,969.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and drive you crazy, if you and yet to, you know, just an example of what you've been saying after that race, Mo went right in, held hands with Carter, and got the Alaska lands bill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=970.0,980.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah. Mo, never let any heart feelings he had towards Carter or his people interfere with his job. No, he, he wouldn't. He's too big a man for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=981.0,992.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1980 Mo, was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. He nevertheless continued in Congress and as chair of the House interior committee, Did there come a time when he was still serving that you ever thought that he was no longer capable of serving in that position?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=993.0,1012.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, you always respect people's personal decisions on something like that, but I guess there was a time when I came to the conclusion that mo shouldn't serve longer, and that was when we were in his office, and I don't remember the issue was delegation meeting in his office, and he had a piece of paper, and he dropped the piece of paper, and he bent over to pick it up, and he fell forward and hit the glass On the table with his forehead. And we were shocked. You know, we just, you know, we can't imagine the impact in the room. And, you know, we pulled him up and sat him back. But I thought at that, that was when I thought, Mo should go. He probably, you know, of course, he stayed too long, and of course, it was sad to see. And of course, but you know, Moe was effective right up to the end, even when he was incapacitated. So you have to balance that against the public spectacle of a guy having to wear a microphone just to be heard as chairman of a committee. So you know, these kinds of things are such personal decisions that it's hard. And the other thing about it is the reason why I don't begrudge him for staying too long was his whole life. Then, I mean, it was his whole life. He knew that his life effectively, was at any end, whether he stopped breathing or not, the fact his life was in an end. When he left the Congress","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1013.0,1100.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did, did he and you ever speak about living No, no, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1101.0,1106.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: never spoke about that kind of thing that just yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1107.0,1111.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I get the feeling he didn't speak to a lot of people about that. He didn't really speak to people about personal things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1112.0,1116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was afraid of what he was going to hear. Yeah, yeah. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1117.0,1120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: 1991 Mo was forced to retire because of complications from Parkinson's. He was confined to the VA Medical Center in DC, and lingered there until his death in 1998 during those years, you visited him regularly. Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1121.0,1138.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I loved him. I and, you know, I, I just thought so much of him. And in the early years, when I would go to visit him, you know, he would be able to say a few words and and, you know, I would read him the clips of the, you know, that I had from the Arizona newspapers and stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1139.0,1168.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It was less what would be okay. Anyway, he, you know, I mean, I just had such affection for him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1169.0,1182.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I asked Norma one time early on if I could take him and have him come and sit in my office during the day, and she didn't agree with that idea. I often regretted that she didn't do that, because I think that would have meant the world to him. And she was worried about how he looked, and, you know, and I understand that. But anyway,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1183.0,1207.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did you feel like he was, he was there, he that he was aware that you were,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1208.0,1211.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I always did. It's probably near the end. I used to kid myself. But, you know, sometimes I could see his eyes and that he were, you know, at first, you know, in the first two or three years or so, maybe four years, you know, how I, you know. And if I listened real close, he would say some phrases, you know. But it was also clear to me he was not happy there. I mean, no one could be. I mean, it's just a warehouse","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1212.0,1239.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when a man who's whose very life was his speech was did, what did you speak to him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1240.0,1247.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: read to talk to him and tell him what was going on, and I and I'd read the clips, you know, that kind of thing, that it's interesting two people probably that I respect more than Any in this world, Ronald Reagan and Mo Udall. Reagan lives in a body that's been deprived of its mind, and Udall lived in a mind that was deprived of its body.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1248.0,1270.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Very interesting, yeah, yeah, and tragic, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1271.0,1274.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: equally tragic, yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1275.0,1278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, go ahead. You still have to, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1279.0,1279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you sponsored the Morris K Udall Parkinson's research act that ultimately passed in 1997 How did the sponsorship come about? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1280.0,1290.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and Udall was a prime factor in the Udall family, Norma Udall Morton kundraki, whose wife has Parkinson's. A number of people played very important roles. But, you know, I mean, there's no doubt, and unembarrassed and unashamed to say that Moe's plight is what got me involved in the issue. Maybe, from a theoretical standpoint, it's wrong. Maybe I should be as concerned about lung cancer as I am about Parkinson's. But when you see someone that you have such affection for undergo, it obviously affects you as a human being.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1291.0,1332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is that the case with the fetal tissue research? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1333.0,1335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Anne, you don't convinced me of that and convinced me that came to see me and convinced me that scientific, body of scientific over on body of scientific opinion, is that that can lead to cures for not only Parkinson's, but other diseases as well, including Alzheimer's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1336.0,1353.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He took quite a beating from the right. Oh, yeah, change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1354.0,1357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Sorry. That was one of many,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1358.0,1361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and the Udall foundation in 1992 the Morris K Udall Foundation was established by an act of Congress. What was the background of how that Bill","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1362.0,1373.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, Terry Bracey was one of those who had the idea for it, and so many hundreds or 1000s of friends of Mo who thought that he should be remembered in one way or another, and this seemed to be the most appropriate way to do it, but it was really the effort of so many people that you know wanted him to have a legacy. And I think the Udall Center is a very good legacy. And this conflict resolution part that's been added, I think, is really something because of Mo was, Mo was at his best in conflict resolution, anybody I've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1374.0,1414.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: ever known. I think, I think and environmental, I think that the Institute will be something that really represents his his legacy. I just have a couple of couple of other questions. Okay, one, do you do you have a vision for the Udall foundation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1415.0,1434.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I'd like to look environmental issues are going to be bigger when we established the Udall foundation climate change, or global warming, whatever you want to call it, was an issue that only idiots like Al Gore cared about. You know, I mean, most of us thought it was kind of on the fringe. Climate change is real. Climate change is real. There will be more and more of a need for institutions like the Udall center, for example. The other thing is that, as far as Arizona is concerned, and that's why I'm glad it's in Tucson, we're going to have tremendous strains on our environment in the state. I mean, they're already there. We see them all the time, and there are some very intractable issues that are going to be confronting Arizona. So I think the future of the Utah center is that it's going to have more and more challenges to meet in the future. Did I know no one, no matter where you are in the political spectrum, that believes environmental issues are going to get anything but more and more important,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1435.0,1496.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: exactly, did your relationship? Friendship with Mo change your your your thinking about any issues like the environment or Native American Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1497.0,1506.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when we did the wilderness bills, it was the first time that I really got to know Arizona and its beauty. And it's, you know, he and I flew over, walked over, drove over, huge amounts of of of the state of Arizona when we were doing these wilderness bills, and had 10s of hearings that were long ones, I mean, so we could hear from everybody, and that that certainly had an impact on me. Well, I think about three years that took us to get those wilderness bills done, so that had a significant impact that and of course, the Native American issues, I never would have been involved in Native American issues. It hadn't been for Mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1507.0,1547.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and campaign finance reform that was another real favorite of most. Yeah, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1548.0,1552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: sort of, but at that time, it was kind of a not that big an issue, you know, because it wasn't until the late 80s that this soft money explosion took place. So certainly, I found it very interesting that Moe and I both were involved in that, but I didn't really get involved in that until later on, because, frankly, during the 80s, the reforms that mo had been part of, 74 were still keeping the system pretty much under that's true. They were in effect at that time. Yeah, the post Watergate reforms that mo had such a huge hand in were still in effect tomorrow. If we pass McCain Feingold tomorrow, 20 to 30 years from now, there'll be two more guys, I hope one of them's from Arizona that'll be pushing for reform again, because smart guys will always find loopholes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1553.0,1608.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, sure. Oh sure. Wouldn't that be fun? If that passed tomorrow,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1609.0,1612.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we got a little boost, but we'll see. We talk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1613.0,1615.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a lot about Mo's strengths. Did he have any weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1616.0,1621.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I We know of his physical weaknesses, his mental, I mean, his intellectual weaknesses. You know, might, you might argue, from a pragmatic standpoint, that he got too far out front too early on some issues like the Alaska bill, or some of the reforms that he was pushing, which he was defeated on. He used to run for the leadership, and he was defeated, but later on, obviously, those those things came to fruition, but I don't think he would have been Mo, if he hadn't been willing to get out front on issues, he'd have just been another member of Congress. In politics, there's always contradictions. Mo was had to support the Central Arizona Project and several other court Arizona issues in order to to make sure that he was re elected. He got a scare in 1980 and where he this guy came very close to him, and Moe had to spend some time back in Arizona, which happens to all politicians. But I don't view that as particular weakness. I just think it's some of the vicissitudes of a long political career. No, the only other thing in and I've never really understood it, because it happened so much of it happened before Mo and I became so close is, you know, he obviously so dedicated to his work that his marriage, or two marriages, didn't stay together. One ended in divorce and the other in tragedy, you know, but there's always a trade off you got to make in public life and and I'm not sure that that mo didn't realize that he was running some risk, because it was absolute dedication to knowing more about the issue than anybody else. Many times he told me that was his strongest point. He knew the issue better than any of his opponents, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1622.0,1763.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: that shows the lawyer in him. Yeah, but you know, he loved life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1764.0,1769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He loved Arizona. He loved the beauty of our country. He He reveled in in in the natural beauty of Arizona as well as Alaska and other parts of the country. He he had a great, had a great appreciation, which some of us don't have until maybe too late in life, for the great natural beauty of our state. And he truly loved it. And he truly, truly. Felt this affection and love for Native Americans for which there was no political upside, there was no possible political gain that Moe could have achieved, and he could have spent a lot of time on other issues which would have gained him much more politically. And I think one of his legacies is this, is this obligation that some of us who follow and feel to try to carry on that effort anyway. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1770.0,1826.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that leads sort of to my last question, what was most, greatest and most lasting influence on your life, personally and professionally?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1827.0,1838.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, first of all, as I said, I haven't succeeded very well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1839.0,1840.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: but I think disagree with that. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1841.0,1844.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I the absolute requirement to try to treat your adversaries or opponents or those who disagree with you with respect and even affection, the absolute importance of trying to understand that you have other obligations besides the issue of du jour Native Americans is a perfect example of that. And I guess finally, the the importance that of trying to work with people, as opposed to drawing partisan or ideological boundaries between yourself and others. And finally, an unfailing and unflinching good humor in good times and in bad The people have spoken the bastards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1845.0,1915.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, that about sums it up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1916.0,1917.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, in the other one you know is Tom Wolf says you can't go home again. Well, you can. He just marvelous, just marvelous. Hardly a day goes by that I don't think about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1918.0,1935.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: him. I think that's true for a number of us. Well, thank you. Senator","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1936.0,1940.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: King. It's also interesting to me, the number of people that were associated with Mo who still are in positions of responsibility and authority. I hardly a day goes by that I don't run into somebody MARK SHIELDS. MARK SHIELDS start with with Mo, you know. So his legacy does live on in the people that that he attracted to his banner","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1941.0,1965.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Cambodian. Just a number of them out there, lot of them. Yeah. Well, that's a legacy too. Yeah, it's nice. Well, thank you very much. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298#t=1966.0,1968.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146506/file/270298/transcript/78617/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/617/original/azu_ms396-023_side1_a.vtt?1744913935","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/617/original/azu_ms396-023_side1_a.vtt?1744913935"}]}]}]}