{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/n29p26s10w/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Cliff Robertson"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 3, tape 30"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Robertson, Cliff, 1923-2011 (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1999-01-17"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Cliff Robertson conducted by Julie Ferdon. Robertson was an actor who had known Udall for 25 years. Robertson introduced himself to Udall while we was running in the 1976 Presidential race because Robertson was impressed with his politics. Robertson campaigned for Udall during this race and they continued a friendship for the rest of Udall's life."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.035 (uid)","MS396.036 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Cliff Robertson conducted by Julie Ferdon. Robertson was an actor who had known Udall for 25 years. Robertson introduced himself to Udall while we was running in the 1976 Presidential race because Robertson was impressed with his politics. Robertson campaigned for Udall during this race and they continued a friendship for the rest of Udall's life."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - azu_ms396-035_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2502.696,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/316/original/azu_ms396-035_side1_a.mp3?1744847883","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2502.696,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, this is tape number 30 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good afternoon. It's Sunday, January 17, 1999 and we're at the windmill Inn at Campbell Avenue and River Road in Tucson, Arizona. My name is Julie ferdon, and I would like to welcome Cliff Robertson to another in a series of interviews that formed the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Mr. Robertson, thank you for participating, Cliff. Thank you. It's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=0.0,31.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a joy to be here, rather sad situation with Moe passing away, but I think the 1500 people in that Centennial Hall was visible evidence of how much he was loved and respected, not only in his own home grounds here in Arizona, but all over the world. And I live about 2000 miles east of here, out in the boonies in Long Island. And of course, I flew down for this because Mo and I go back to some 20 odd, well, 25 years, I guess, and I loved and respected the man, and was happy to come here and join other people who felt the same way I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=32.0,70.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: should for the record. Note that yesterday, January 16, was the memorial service for Moe in Centennial Hall. He died on December 12 in Washington, and the service was here in Tucson, Arizona.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=71.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The yesterday, I was allowed to read a poem that I had written about mo which was subsequently put on the wall there in this hospital bed for the seven, eight years. He was, he was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=86.0,99.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I remember seeing it there,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=100.0,102.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, bedridden with the Parkinson's. So I read that yesterday, and but I had written another one on the way down here, and after he passed away, and when I was flying down here the night before last. So if I can read my rather scratchy writing that was accented with a few bumps from the airliner. I'll do my best here, and I refer I call this you left us. Mo, you left us. Mo, you left us. You left a hole in our hearts, a question on our lips, what now? Where do we look? Where do we find another Mo, another man to stand so tall for all the weak, the small, where do we find another friend of the mountains, of the plains, the water, the great sky, blue of the desert too. Where do we look? Where do we find that kind, that kind of man? You left us Mo, you left us with memories, warm, forlorn, without the laugh, the laugh that gave us pause to look inside our foolish pride and guide our eyes that we not hide the truth, the truth to look for love above all else, in every man, throughout this land, Throughout our lives, that we might follow the path he made, the path of Mo, that must not fade. You left us. Mo, you left your path so straight, so fine, that we might find a better way to live and look for love above all else, you left us. Mo, dear Mo, you left us. So much, so very, very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=103.0,240.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Thank you. That's wonderful. Really wonderful. Let's I want to learn a lot about your relationship with Mo, but let's start with the little information about you, like, where, where and when were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=241.0,255.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you born? Oh, dear. I was born little, little after Mo, not much out in California. My hometown is La Jolla, but I left that in Byron. Well, I kept a house there, which I still have, but it's too big for me. And my cat and my two daughters are now grown on the East Coast, so and the cat has the last leftist mortal coils just about the time mo did. So I live way out in the boonies in Long Island water mill, Long Island which has been mainly a farming area for potatoes, but alas, the Manhattan marauders are descending upon. This in the summer, it's not quite the bucolic scene that so many of us have enjoyed. People used to ask me my favorite time of the year in water mill, I say day after Labor Day, everybody go back to their concrete Manhattan caverns, but now way they come out in their big, fancy cars every weekend. So now my favorite time of the year and water mill is January and February. It's just too bloody cold. So those of us who live out there year round feel a communal spirit on those cold days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=256.0,339.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I understand, did you? Did you go to school and do your schooling through La Jolla in California? Oh, yeah, went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=340.0,347.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to kindergarten. I did go away to prep school for a couple of years, but basically it was in La Jolla. Where was that? I went to a military academy, brown Military Academy nearby, but I was a boarder so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=348.0,358.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and I understand you were a reporter for a while, was, yeah, I never intended","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=359.0,363.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to be an actor. I I always seemed to like to write, or at least it seemed to come easy. Maybe that's why I liked this. But so I always I never thought I'd be an actor, although I did, I would volunteer occasionally for the class play, only because it was an evasion. I learned when I was in Mr. Radford second grade in La Jolla Grammar School that if you volunteered for the class play, you wouldn't have to stay after school for being naughty, you wouldn't have to stay after school and clean the erasers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=364.0,404.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's a very important lesson to learn. It was a Dodge, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=405.0,408.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I've always thought it was a Dodge, and I'm sure I think it still is a Dodge. It was an invasion of an avoidance. I'm always kind of tickled when I hear some actors being interviewed and they're asked why and when did they become, or want to become an actor? And they hear some dramatic silence, and then you hear something, the effect that they wanted to they had this emotional bubble in their breasts that they had to burst and share with the world. And the truth of it, many times they were parking cars about 20 minutes before and get get lucky and get a job. But I'm not putting down my fellow actors, but I think a lot of us take ourselves a bit too seriously. Anyway, I learned that if you volunteered for the class play, you wouldn't have to stay up to school and clean the erasers. That was it was nothing more than a Dodge. And then I went away thinking I was going to be probably a journalist. I did, indeed, for about 20 minutes, write for a Springfield Daily News. Now was that after prep school or no, this was in college. And where did you go to York and I wrote for the old Springfield Daily News and general assignment. And then they said they some people thought that I was that maybe I should, instead of trying to write for a deadline, maybe write for the theater. Well, that's interesting, exotic dodge. So when I went to New York, just not knowing anything about the theater, and everybody said, Well, you've got to learn if you're going to write for the theater. I said, Well, what do you suggest? I didn't know a damn thing about theater. They said, Well, you should probably go out into the hustings, maybe on the summer stock and then winter repertory and go out and learn. So I went out and learned to drive a truck, and learned to build flats and those modest little companies, everybody had to double and brass. You had to not just drive have a nail, but you had to play a part. They were very small, meager company. So I would, I would do it. I would act whatever part was. Eddie came again, sort of the facile kind of I took it very casually, far too casually. I'm this ravish kid from La Jolla, California, with no real life experience. But I thought that I looked at these actors who took themselves so darn seriously and sort of far ahead and beat their breast and declaim all their angst. I always, I guess the journalists in me were still kind of looking at this scene as being amusing. But as Cavalier as I was, I seemed to do pretty well. I don't think it please some of this, some of these actors, that I would get pretty good reviews. Maybe it was because I didn't take it too seriously, or maybe just lucky. I. Don't know it just again, it came easily. So then I went back to New York, and I thought, well, I'll give it a shot. So I had all the usual jobs one has when they're struggling in the city. I was a busboy and I was a waiter, and I was worked on the docks, and I timed for about eight minutes a private detective, which was a joke. It just meant you had to follow somebody around and write down on piece of paper what time they went into a building or something. But it was, I was simply trying to stay alive because I made up my mind, I would never write home for money. I said, Whatever happens, I'm gonna do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=409.0,646.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it on my own. What did your What did your father do? Nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=647.0,649.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was a man who never worked a day in his life. He and my mother were divorced when I was about two, and he immediately, almost immediately, married another lady, subsequently married, had about four wives,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=650.0,671.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all legal, but I mean, and he just sort of lived off money that he had inherited","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=672.0,678.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he would come To visit. Oh, well, then my my mother, of course, after they split up, she went to live with her, her mother, my grandmother.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=679.0,685.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And did you stay with your mother? Yeah, sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=686.0,689.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Then she died shortly after, about, when I was about two and a half, she died, and so I don't remember her. Oh, I remember little images that my grandmother would tell me were obviously images of her, but I can't recall. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=690.0,706.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you were effectively raised by your grandmother. Well, my grandmother","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=707.0,711.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had been divorced, and she of course, living in La Jolla, and she so when my mother died, my father had remarried already, and so my grandmother immediately, in her Calvinist way, thought, Well, I'm not going to let this boy, you know, be under sort of questionable influences of a sort of, I mean, you couldn't help but like my father, he was a charming guy, very handsome. He was about six, three and well educated and bright, but it was just sort of a wasted life in many ways, because he never worked, because he didn't have to. He just spent money that somebody else had earned. His grandfather, one of those things. So that was part of that, plus my kind of strict religious upbringing of the Calvinist work ethic is one of the reasons I decided I would never write home for money, not that there was a lot of money to write home for, but I just was that independent. I just believed in the work ethic and do to this day. So any rate, when I got back to New York from these various summer theaters up in New England and winter rep. I came back to New York and, you know, nothing unusual, typical, starving actor, artist life lived down on the lower west side, $7 a week for a room there's all rather romantic. In those days when you're young, you feel like, Oh, this is kind of exciting, because mainly, you're on your own, and it's kind of you're your own boss, and you can make your own mistakes. So any rate, I used to poo poo, what was then known as the actor studio, which was a very serious group of actors that had been started by Elia Kazan and Lee Strasberg, Cheryl Crawford, Harold Clurman, very serious students, directors, writers for the theater. And they, in turn, had been members of the old group Theater, which had been started in 1929 group theater was a group of very serious young writer, director, actors, and they begat people like Clifford Odette's famous writer and, of course, the mentioned people I just mentioned before, French o tone and Lee Cobb and those actors took the craft very seriously for several reasons. One, economic times in the 30s, rather desperate depression. So there was a lot of very, very politically active people, a lot of very left wing people, and indeed, communist communists, very active in those days. And I'm all I know about. This is from what I've read and what I've heard, but I've heard it from the horse's mouth because i i used to poo poo the Actor's Studio, because I thought they took themselves a little bit too seriously, and I thought they were kind of funny. Again, I was in my kind of heck MacArthur journalistic mode. I was looking as a journalist. And then a friend of mine said, Well, you're just you're knocking it because you're just afraid to try. And I said, Why am I afraid to try? And he said, because it's very difficult to get in. They would audition about 3000 people a year, and they'd maybe accept three for various reasons. One had a space limitation that was all held in an old abandoned church over in the West 40s still is. And so I just said, Put your money where your mouth is. This fellow bet me and I took the bet, and I took audition, and of course, they have you come back a second time if you pass the first and then a third time if you pass the second. End of the year, I was accepted. So then I started going to class, and I started began to learn how little I really knew I came off my high horse a little bit, began to recognize that there was a lot there that I could learn from. I still felt that an awful lot of them were just a little bit too pompous. Now, the actor studio knows that you didn't pay any money. Now they subsequently have actor studio West and things like that. But those are there. They're kind of connected, but they're you pay money so you don't, it's not as difficult to get in. It's not to put them down. It's just that it was then considered quite a plum to be able to accept it in the studio. And of course, we had a lot of actors who eventually became famous, Jimmy Dean, who I knew, and Paul Newman and Marlon had never gone to the studio, but he was, he was, he only had a few lessons from Stella Adler, who was a teacher as well as an actress. Remember the old Adler, Jewish theater family in New York,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=712.0,1037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so the studio was primarily a teaching instrument. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1038.0,1041.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we would give shows and presentations and things like that. We also had a thing for writers to come, Tennessee Williams and William Ange, people like that would come. They were observers. They would be allowed to observe. And many times they would write, if they were in the process of writing, they would give scenes to some of the actors, they could sort of test fly them, if you will. I speak as a pilot. Now, if I my conversation, if I make aviation terms, you have to understand that I've been flying airplanes for a long time, and I, my heart is in that firmament, if you will. That's where I love to fly. And I love people and Mo and I, of course, Mo used to fly. You would talk about aviation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1042.0,1083.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you you were flying at the time you met Mo? Oh, sure, I've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1084.0,1088.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: been flying for 30 years. But anyway, so eventually, in New York, with all these jobs, you know, you struggle alone. And finally, they call the golden days of television, which were exciting days because it was all live. They didn't have much tape. They had some. So when you do one of these dramatic shows, it was like doing live theater. And of course, you're meanwhile doing off off Broadway and off Broadway and Broadway. And so I did those things, and then finally, I did my first movie, and then immediately raced home to New York, that is, went out, said the words, and raced home. I had to protect my actor studio integrity. You see, a lot of us felt most days that, well, good reason that Hollywood, the Sodom and Gomorrah, a lot of fine artists, but and therefore we were kind of the reverse. We were prejudiced against Hollywood because of some of its antics. And indeed, I've never really lived up there, although I still have the house in La Jolla, but it's too big for me and the cat, so I rent it to people, some people, and it helps justify its existence. But the main reason I keep it aside from the fact it's got a tiny little gatehouse in the back, so when I'm out there filming, I can go in on weekends and kind of restore the old hometown roots. You know, I'm just not about to sell it to some these developers are always hounding at the door, and I just trying to hold on to those hometown roots some way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1089.0,1190.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, I understand.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1191.0,1192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Anyway, that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1193.0,1193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so your beginnings were strictly in theater, yeah. And then. And at some point, obviously you moved over more to movies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1194.0,1203.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, once you started doing television that was formal movies, that was film, and whether it was in New York or whether it was in Hollywood, it was it was in front of a camera, and they're just not that many plays, you know. So that's the reality all actors have to face","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1204.0,1222.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in at some point you also got involved in writing and directing. Oh, yeah, where was that in? In your career?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1223.0,1232.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I was subrosa doing some writing without acknowledging it, and I would deny it hotly today, if anybody put me on a stand. But in the early days, well, not so early, some of these producers or directors knew that I was a writer, so they were always coming up to me and saying, Cliff, can you fix this scene up that you're in? It's a little hollow here. So for my own self anger and dies when I would do a little rewriting. So I did a lot of that part you were playing, yeah, Part I was playing, well, sometimes I'd even cross that line. But then now, later on, I became a member of the writer skill. I was even on their board. So, I mean, I'm a union man, and I also remember the Directors Guild having director film as well, so we frown on that sort of thing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1233.0,1286.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: officially. Have you gotten back into plays at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1287.0,1289.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did a thing a couple years ago on Broadway, just for a limited run with Elaine Stritch. It was love letters, which is enjoyed a lot of success around the country. There's two people's lives from the time they were eight until they're much older, and I enjoyed that. She's a absolutely wonderful, delightful talent, and we did that on Broadway. But I think since on Broadway, what I've done it that same play in Colorado and also in near San Diego and also in San Francisco.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1290.0,1331.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What do you consider your best works?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1332.0,1334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, it's, you know, I have to tell you this, I've never been satisfied with anything I've ever done. It's simply a degree of dissatisfaction. And that's not modest either. That's not being modest. It's strictly sheer unbridled ego. And it's because, I guess I think I'm better than I really am. So when I see what it is, I think, Gosh, I can do better than that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1335.0,1361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, maybe the question I should ask them is, which works are you least dissatisfied with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1362.0,1368.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, well, I'm not least, but I'm less. I'm less dissatisfied maybe with picture I wrote and directed and starred in called JW coupe. Well, of course, that was because I had more creative control. I was a writer and I was a director and I was an actor as a star and even a producer, so I was less dissatisfied with JW coupe. I mean, I was less dissatisfied with, of course, Charlie, not simply because of the Academy Award, but just because I had a lot to do with it. I wrote a lot of the second act, and indeed, I've written a sequel to Charlie, which I have finished with and I would like to get produced now, if I find those people with the deep pockets, but it'll be a modest picture. I'm a very frugal director. I don't waste other people's money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1369.0,1423.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I wish you success in that. I would love to thank","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1424.0,1425.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you. Well, I think, yeah, I think it would be good, and everybody's read the script, seems to think so, just a matter of it. But because I don't live out in Hollywood, I don't operate in those in that network, so I don't know a lot of the sources, and I'm rather poor, going out trying to sell beating the bushes. Yeah, I mean, I could probably represent you or somebody else. But again, it's not modesty. I think it's to get something to do with my Calvinism. I have trouble kind of bragging about I liked to mow a lot that way. I think he had it. I mean, he was on stage for a good reason, and he enjoyed it, but he wasn't a person that was wanting to kind of grab the microphone and take over. He'd learned you had to sometimes, but I don't think people who have that kind of aggression appeal to me, although I recognize it's very necessary in some cases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1426.0,1489.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I've noticed just in in talking to you yesterday and today, a number of similarities between you and Mo i the work ethic. I know certainly his work at the ethic has come up a great deal in the oral histories. And you're both very sort of unassuming, unassuming, thoughtful people, real people, easy to approach, also the basis integrity. And now I learned you were both both pilots, is it is it correct that President Kennedy hand picked you, hand selected you to play him on. PT, 109,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1490.0,1529.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: hand picked. Well, we weren't all standing up against the wall. And he walked up and down like a general and said, I'll take you. It wasn't one of those things he had when he heard they were going to make a movie based on his World War Two exploits as a PT boat Skipper in the South Pacific and subsequent sinking of the PT boat and his heroism involved. He had three requests. One, it be historically accurate. He didn't want it to be another, Hollywood exaggeration. Hollywood has a tendency to exaggerate history and everything else, and that's hardly a product of profound deliberation. Anybody looking to Hollywood, these little Hollywood shows and interviews and stuff. It's just kind of funny. Anyway, one of the requests was that it not be his an exaggeration. It'd be historically accurate. Two, that any monies that might come from that the making a movie of it kind of based on his story, would be given to the survivors of his PT vote, or for those who are no longer alive, their families, and three that he be allowed to choose the actor to play it. So they tested a lot of people. I remember, I was out in Hollywood at the time working on another picture, and I remember, I mean, Warren Beatty was mentioned, and Peter Fonda was mentioned. And you know, you'd hear about this person or that person and you'd think, yeah, I think that fellow would be pretty good. But do you never think of yourself somehow with certain for a role like that? I was doing a movie at Paramount, and they came over and they said they want you to test for this movie. I said, Oh no, I'm in the middle of this movie at Paramount. I pray they can't do that. They said, Oh, yes, you can. I said, What do you mean? Here's some sides, paper scenes here to report tomorrow. Warner Brothers do these, this test, it'll take all day. I said, Yeah, but I have to go to work at Paramount. They said, it's been arranged. I figured, then somebody somewhere up where had some influence. So I went and did it. Probably forgot about it. About four days later, friend of mine called New York, this girl I knew, and she said, what's going on your picture's in front of the paper with President Kennedy. Looks like you're going to play his part in the movie? PT, 109, first I ever heard of it, so I went told my former agent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1530.0,1688.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's how it happened. Wow. Now, didn't you play politicians in other movies? Oh, yeah. Did you play you played Kennedy again even, didn't you and, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1689.0,1700.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I you know, they try to disguise some of these characters. Sometimes there'll be a blend of subliving characters. I was in very good, beautifully written screenplay, and I say that because it had won a Pulitzer Prize as a stage play the best man, written by Gore Vidal. Of course, he was one of our best writers and politically very astute. And I asked him, and happily, he wrote the screenplay and I was cast. Henry Fonda was to play the one presidential candidate and I was to play the other. My character was more conservative. Henry was more liberal. And there were always conjectures about who my character was. So I asked gorwin day. He said, who is he? I mean, is this? Who is this guy? Nixon, who is it? He said it's a combination of Bobby Kennedy and Goldwater","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1701.0,1769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in in one character. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1770.0,1771.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, that people, who are, you know, very aware of those people. It might seem a strange mixture, but from Gore's point of view. I didn't go into detail. I let it play. But I think, from his point of view, he found, I don't think he was a best friend of Bobby Kennedy. He's in a case, even in his works, his books, he's indicated that he found. Found that there was a dynamic there, rather aggressive, dynamic, positive. And then he also, I saw, obviously a conservative side of Goldwater. So that's the character, was called Joe Cantwell, and that's the character I play. I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1772.0,1819.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: going to have to go back and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1820.0,1820.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: look at that best man you can get the tape. Yeah, definitely not a bad film. Some black and white","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1821.0,1826.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did in playing some of these roles. Did they engender in you and interest in politics or government","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1827.0,1833.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: any more","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1834.0,1837.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: than you already had? Or maybe a little.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1838.0,1841.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that if you if you're going to play a character, you do research, you do your homework. If you're going to write a book about somebody, you're going to do research. So if you're going to do a character in a movie or play, it behooves the serious actor to do as much research as he can? So I did as much research as I could in most cases. I mean, I played a lot of characters real. I played first man on the moon in the movie return to Earth, which was about Buzz Aldrin. I mean, Armstrong was first, and Buzz Aldrin was two steps behind, and there was a story written about his problems after that. It was called return to work. So I played the astronaut Buzz Aldrin, and I'm a good friend of buzzes to this day, so I guess he was reasonably satisfied. So I did my research on that. I played Henry Ford in the movie The man and the machine. So I did my research on old Henry Ford and played him from time he was a younger man till he was on the die. And then I did gosh and quite a few. I even did Bob Fauci, star, 80 character of what's his name, Hugh Hefner,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1842.0,1931.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: uh huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1932.0,1933.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And Bob said to me, Cliff, he said, Now you played former presidents and you played astronauts, famous men, I bet you never thought of playing Hugh Hefner. I said, No, I never thought of that. He said, What do you think? I said, Well, working with you, I'll play your Aunt Tilly. If the words are there, I don't care. I'm an actor. He said, Well, I have to tell you that we're not going to do any puff piece on Hefner, although I don't think he was aware of that. I mean, I'm not saying he expected a puff piece, but Fauci was a man of, you know, very high artistic integrity, and he wanted this guy to wart and all he wanted, he said, You're going to play him, you know, he's walking around these pajamas with all these beautiful young women and little like some people, the most attractive character. But we're going to there's some good sides and there's some bad sides. We're going to show him as honesty as we can. I said, Okay, I never talked to Hefner after that. So I didn't really know him, although I will say this, he couldn't have been more hospitable. He, before we did the picture, he allowed me, invited me to come over to that they called the mansion in Beverly Hills. Well, I went over there is kind of just for two to two separate times. Instead of flying the wall just I went back to my reporter kind of hat looked at it from that point of view. So yes, the answer to your question, yeah, I would take an interest in these characters in doing my research.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=1934.0,2031.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Your reporter background probably served you very well when doing that too, I think so. Now somewhere along the line, you you came to know Morris King Udall. How did that come about? Well, I'll tell you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2032.0,2048.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: At one point there were about 10 democratic men who wanted to be in the primaries. I mean, we're going to be in the primaries. There were about 10 of them. And I looked over this list, I watched them on television, and I read what I could about them. And there was one that stood head and shoulders, not only physically, but I felt every other way. And this won't use it all. Everything he said, way he said it, everything he wrote, way he wrote it. So I went to it, I called him. He was in New York, and I was living in New York, and I went over and had him. I said, I'd like to meet, you know, the congressman. So I. Least his staff said, Fine, oh, they went to him, and he said, Fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2049.0,2102.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I was just doing the New York primary by chance, or, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2103.0,2108.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was. And then we went on to Wisconsin and places like that. But so I went over and he said, well, great, hop aboard, and we became friends. And then, of course, I shared some of his shared it, I mean, when Ella died, you know, I could, I would, I'd go down to see him anyway, after, I mean, he was back in Washington, I would visit him regularly out of McLean. And then when Ella died, and then later on, I guess I was about the first person he ever told that he was thinking of getting married again. He said, I made me nuts, but he said, I mean, I'm thinking of getting married again. I said, Well, that's fine, good. Told me about Normie. He said, want you to meet her? I said, Fine. I said, I invited him. I said, when you guys get married once you spend your honeymoon up my house in Long Island. So he did. He spent a week up there. And then I continued seeing him after he went in the hospital and he couldn't after a while, he couldn't talk, but he would try, and I he didn't have to try. I somehow heard that was that that poem was about that I read yesterday. I seem to understand. I, you know, go down and talk about those days, and I talk about things that were happening. We watched television, watch a basketball game. I'd hold his hand.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2109.0,2197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What was it about, Moe that attracted you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2198.0,2202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: everything. He was the most Lincoln esque figure that I'd ever met, consistent, because some of these politicians are like actors. They're one thing on stage or another thing off stage. He just, I don't know he was a mean bone in Mo's body, but he the same time, he had a sharp eye, and he could, he could spot the seat in a minute, shoot it down, but he softened its fall. The little humor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2203.0,2248.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What did you do during the presidential campaign for him? Talked","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2249.0,2253.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: sometimes on the streets, as I mentioned,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2254.0,2256.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: with him, traveling with him, or sometime, well, I was with the party,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2257.0,2260.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but we'd come into a town, and as I said yesterday, sometimes you'd say, well, we're going to be walking along the street. I'm going to go four blocks up here, and I'll meet you to McDonald's maybe four blocks around. Otherwise, here's a map. Somebody give me a map. I go out tell people that, you know, talk. They'd recognize me usually, and if they didn't, didn't make any difference. And then we'd meet at hamburger, hamburger, and then we'd go television and I even went back to my where I wrote for the paper, Springfield Daily News in Springfield, Ohio. Thought I'd get a plug in there, and went back there and talk on television newspaper, and it was there when we thought we won in Wisconsin, I started up there reading the boat, and I got on the plane. The next morning, I had to go back to New York, and John chancellor was there as I walked on the plane. He said, Cliff. I called it, and I thought he won it. I said, Yeah, that last passel of votes from a northern who declare where it was called just little block boat came in and just toppled if he'd won one primary. Well, obviously, if he'd been lucky enough, the magazines had been smart enough to give him a cover one magazine, he got that window of visibility, but he showed his class when he lost, when not many of them can do that. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2261.0,2366.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's very true. So you campaigned in in Wisconsin and New York and Ohio, anyplace else that you recall or Well, I went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2367.0,2377.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: out with him to Seattle. For the machinists aviation machinists union. We flew out there together, and there was a big conference there, head of the aviation machinist for. A union named wimpy. They call him wimpy, wimpy singer. He supplied the jet Mo and I and some other people but Mo and I accompanied out there and I spoke their conference as a union man, I mean, sure as some kind of a high profile person in the movies, but, but I was speaking, in that case, as a man, a member of three or four unions, so I able to kind of juggle my hats a little bit. You know, I go to the newspaper, talk as a guy who used to work for the newspaper, and I go on the television. Like a cliff Robertson, movie, actor, director, writer, whatever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2378.0,2444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did you fly in the campaign plane? Ever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2445.0,2447.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: or No, I flew in in the commercial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2448.0,2454.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Ever fly with Mo When? When he was flying? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2455.0,2457.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he had, kind of given it up. He had he, I mean, he was so darn busy. He we would talk aviation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2458.0,2466.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He took over the controls of the campaign plane. Once scared everybody to death. Did he? He did that. I understand in Alaska too, when he was doing the Alaska lands building.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2467.0,2475.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, pilots, you know, old pilots. You can't put them up in the front there with that. They want to put their hands on the control. But we talked a lot about I kept saying, you know, Mo, I got my bear and I still have it there. And he said, Yeah. He said, Yeah, that'd be kind of fun. Be nice to get back. I said, Great. But we never did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2476.0,2494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You know, I'm going to take this opportunity to turn the tape over. I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316#t=2495.0,2497.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270316/transcript/78637/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/637/original/azu_ms396-035_side1_a.vtt?1744914535","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/637/original/azu_ms396-035_side1_a.vtt?1744914535"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - azu_ms396-035_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2723.784,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/317/original/azu_ms396-035_side2_a.mp3?1744847890","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2723.784,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, okay, we're on side B now, you had mentioned that you knew Mo's wife, Ella. How, how would you describe her, or what were your impressions of her? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=0.0,15.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I never met his first wife, and so I, I only met Ella, who had been a secretary, as you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=16.0,27.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and she had a, she was kind of a, almost a little Raffy sense of humor. She, you know, they were working hard in those days, and they were under a lot of pressure. And, of course,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=28.0,53.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: she was too. So at the end of the day, some of them might want to shoot her or two, you could understand they were, you know, she seemed to she always was very nice to me. Always glad to see me walk into a room and kind of big voice, little woman, big voice. There he is. Come on over here. And she was loyal. She seemed to like to be in a position of puncturing balloons if they got to be too full. Not that Moe ever. I never saw that in Moe, but I think all politicians wives probably feel the need for that, because politicians like actors, get an awful lot of attention, and pretty soon they start to believe a lot of things about themselves, not always true. I always had a feeling she was kind of a leveler.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=54.0,117.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think she played that role. Yeah, I really do. And somebody needed to occasionally, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=118.0,122.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: once in a while. Well, when you got a man of such great character and such Lincoln esque qualities, they're just automatically, they will magnetically draw an awful lot of worshiping type of people. And amongst them, of course, there are going to be women as well as men. And sometimes the women, particularly the younger women, you know, just maybe, in a fatherly way, just get a huge crush on the man. So a gal like Ella, she's not unaware of that. So I think she had a way of, kind of keeping him,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=123.0,157.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and you kept touch with them as a couple, then over. Oh yeah, oh yeah. When I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=158.0,163.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: go down a visit there in McLean, stayed there sometimes, but usually I would, well, I go down to SEMA. It was at his office. And then we would go to the have lunch cafeteria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=164.0,184.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You said that you had talked to mo after Ella died, yeah. How was he coping? I mean, I'm assuming this was quite a shock to him, or maybe I shouldn't make any assumptions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=185.0,198.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, of course, she died while he was after he had become ill. He I never tried to talk about it. I kind of take my lead from him, you know. So we never really went into details, but he did tell me that sometime later, when he thinking of getting married to Norma, I was one of the very first people he told he said that. He said, I've forgotten how he word it, but he said, I may be nuts. He said, I've known the lady for a long time. I guess she had been married. I guess she was a widow. So then he said, I want you to meet her. So then I came down again and we had lunch in the cafeteria, Senate pair. And she very nice. Seemed very nice. And like everybody who loved Mo, I just hoped that he would be not be lonely, because you say, well, with all those people, how can a guy be lonely? Well, you got to go home Good night. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=199.0,279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: probably seems all the all the more lonely with the crowds for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=280.0,283.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: people around the curtains drawn and you're backstage and nobody around with the stage door. He's a sudden, abrupt, i. I was concerned during that time, because he, you know, he was, he plunged into work, even much as ever we'd walk under the tunnel there, and he still walked fast. I drive with him, and didn't feel like he was eating properly. He was just, you know, having a sandwich. You're having some stuff brought in even when we ate his office, you know, or in the Senate,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=284.0,331.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he was amazingly productive during that time. He produced a tremendous amount of legislation. After the 76 presidential campaign, which is about he started showing signs of Parkinson's disease in the late 70s. When did, when did you first become aware of it? Late 70s. Late 70s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=332.0,358.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He said to me, he was up in New York one time. He said, got something to tell you, but I'll wait later on, he said, looks like I've got Parkinson's memory of him. Are you doing on the tape? Are just fine in New York, when I sat up with him one time in the hotel, he was writing something. He was asking me ideas. I was helping him. I mean, he was good writer, but I was couple ideas. I was doing a couple damn typewriter ribbon was not working. Well, I had to go back to my apartment. I came back giving her as long as DVDs, damn cliff. I don't have a typewriter ribbon, whoa, just pick up the phone. I said, You're important guy. Well, I didn't want to bother anybody. I said, Come on, get somebody to bring the darn thing up here. He was disinclined to kind of exercise his power that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=359.0,442.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You know that was one of the attractions of him, sure,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=443.0,445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: because I work out there with those Hollywood characters, and they just snapped their fingers and they got 13 midgets running around. Shouldn't say midgets. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=446.0,459.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: apparently considered running for president again at some point. Did you ever talk to him about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=460.0,468.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, but I had a sneaking feeling that he was flirting with it for a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=469.0,474.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: short time. Did you have any thoughts or feelings about I said to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=475.0,478.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: him, Mo, I'm with you. You're stuck. He said, Well, you never been involved out there, because, see, I'm an obdurate, independent really, whatever that means. It may mean that I just don't have the guts to connect myself with one the other. I'm inclined to go to the Democrats, but I still like to think that I vote for the individual and and I told mo that from the very beginning, and I said, But I'm you're stuck with me. I said, you anything you run for? I just considered a privilege to take the time be with you. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=479.0,524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you think that with the Parkinson's at the point where it was, at that time, I'm thinking this was about 1984 or so, do you think he would have been able to to make the run?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=525.0,538.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Who knows? I guess a doctor would say, No, it would be very iffy. But then somebody else, those same doctors might say, a man of that character and that dedication and the support that you would get might do miracles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=539.0,563.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Might have even done miracles for him,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=564.0,565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah. Well, that's my point. I think the very challenge might have made him do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=566.0,575.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was it soon after the 1976 campaign that you were, as I understand, effectively ostracized from Hollywood for for blowing the whistle on, was it the was it the head of Columbia? Yeah? Pictures, yeah. David beagleman. Beagleman, okay, for some forgery scheme. Yeah. Forgery. Name, what? Tell us about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=576.0,602.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it's called, you know, we've got Watergate. And then there was Wall Street gate. There was a Hollywood gate. A lot of people forgot, of course, it was in the front covers Newsweek and a few other big at the time. What year was this? 7981 and what happened? I won't go into boring details, but I was out doing a thing with Jason Robards called Washington, behind closed doors. I took my wife, my daughter with me, my younger daughter, and on a Saturday, I was going over my bills with my Secretary of now, 30 years, as I want to do, and going over the bills and I came across government 1099, indication that I had owed. I owed taxes on $10,000 that was ostensibly paid me by Columbia Pictures, and on a 1099, which was called miscellaneous income, it indicated I owed taxes on this. Well, the interesting thing is, number one, it's it's not what I'd get for a movie. And number two, I don't know. I never had a miscellaneous income my life that I knew of. And that number three, I didn't work for Columbia, so I just thought a computer had made a mistake. And I said to my secretary, well, this old Scott isn't going to pay taxes on money he didn't receive, so check it out. And so I had her. She used to live in California, and I'm soon as I finished, I went on back east, and she kept she'd get to dead ends. She'd call people, and they'd just go to blind alleys. Finally, I told my accountant, a man of unimpeachable integrity, who had actually, at one time, worked for the IRS, I said, check this thing out. There must be something wrong here, because why am I being asked to pay taxes on money I didn't receive? So time went by, and then finally, meanwhile, my accountant and my secretary is still calling Columbia, and bigelman had been an agent. He was, he was a crook, turned out, a very slick crook, a con man, but he had been an agent. Indeed, he had been one of my agents. Well, one of mine. He was one of 12 that worked for CMA, Creative Management Associates. And CMA was the agency at that time that represented me. And then my contract, it said that there were six different people in New York who could represent me, any one of them, in any kind of negotiation. And there were six of the West Coast, and one of the six on the east coast was this guy, bigelman, and he was a guy. He was, he was a con man. I mean, he was charming, like so many comment you couldn't he was smooth. Talk about slick. We used to joke that, you know, he to me, he was one of those guys that looked like he'd just come out of a steam bath and had a manicure and everything was just kind of wore these fabulously tailored suits. Turned out later on. His father had been a tailor, so I guess he knew something about that, but he he had been an agent, he wasn't a writer, certainly wasn't a director, and he certainly wasn't an actor. He'd been an agent, and then very mysteriously and rather quickly, he was suddenly made president of Columbia. Pictures and a lot of eyebrows shot up, because at that time before that, a man head of Columbia, Abe Schneider, was a man of integrity and a good man and his son, Dick Schneider was the president and an equally honest guy, but I don't think he was as tough as some of these other characters in this, particularly out there. And they were both in New York, and Schneider was kicked out. Was kind of, well quietly, and the only reason I knew that I was doing a movie in England and called me, and he was now being he was now Richard. He now was an independent producer. He said, Well, they kind of got rid of me certain powers. I won't name them, well, I can. Name them later. They're there. These are guys who had influence, some of them without portfolio, but they had influence because they'd been big producers, guys like Ray Stark and people like that. And they didn't, I guess, feel that the sniders were in their camp for whatever the reason. They got rid of so suddenly, Dave David beegelman was the president of Columbia Pictures out in Hollywood. Everybody said, God, he got it. He didn't go through the ranks. He wasn't, you know, he's an agent, but he never worked for the company. He had never been in any of the fields of the company, distribution or any of that stuff he had posed as a former Yale graduate, law graduate of well, when this thing hit the fan, I'm jumping ahead of myself. But later on, after it finally hit the fan, it opened up Trent young woman reporter out, I think, from New West magazine called New Haven, and they said, David who and of course, it turned out that not only had he never been a lawyer, because he wasn't practicing, he claimed to be a lawyer, he'd never been a lawyer. He'd never even been a new he had never been to Yale. He went to DeWitt Clinton High School in the Bronx, and he after the war, he sold encyclopedias, and then he got a job an insurance company in the 40s, and was fired under a cloud of stealing even then. So you know, it's like so many people. If you go back, there's little tracks, and at a certain age, they may have learned to dress properly, and they may have have a pretty good veneer. But the leper doesn't change his spots 50 years of age. So anyway, he now to go back to where I was when I so I had Mr. Cahane, or Abraham cahane, her was my accountant, the man who had formed the work for the IRS. He called finally, one day I was New York, called me from Hollywood. He said, Cliff. I got a call this morning from David BeagleBone. I said, What did he say? Well, obviously it had trickled up to his office that I was on this, or my secretary, my accountant, was smelling something funny, because they were asking, what's the story with this? And obviously it had gotten to big ones. It's a little like the situation may be now, people start making phone calls and you say whoops, and certain people start covering up. So he he told Mr. Beagle, Mr. Bigelman, told Mr. Cainer. He said, Tell cliff, the mystery of the $10,000 has been solved, and not to worry. And Mr. Kaner said, Well, he'll be glad to hear that. What's the mystery? He said, a young man, he didn't identify who he was or his name. He said, a young man who worked for Columbia didn't say what he did. Had come to his office with his father, and these are his very words. The father on bended knee, had pleaded with David to forgive the boy, because it was his first crime, and the father promised full restitution. Pretty good story. I did think at the time, well, it's the first crime. They usually start with hubcaps and work up. So I said, Well, I'll sure I don't he said, so please tell him not forgive I said, Okay, I don't want to send some young kid in prison, and it's not for me to take the law into my hands. But I wasn't prosecuting anyway. I simply gave it to the authorities, which the law said I had to do so because I wasn't going to pay the taxes. So the same day, I got a call from my agent, and he got the same phone call from bigman that the Ministry had been solved. So I told my agent sending I told my accountant, okay, don't prosecute them. I don't want to send a kid as long as I don't have to pay taxes on it. And not long after, I had been made honorary chairman of mental health because of Charlie, and they called me and asked me if I would go to New Zealand for a couple of weeks, and I wasn't working at the time, I was free. And would I go down and help them raise money for their mental health program? They were going to have a telethon, and. And they were going to try to raise enough money for a whole year their mental health program in a four day telethon. I said, that's a good cause. I'll go. Can I take my daughter? And he said, Yeah, I took my eight year old daughter during a spring vacation. So I had and I went down there. Well before we got there, we went to New York, and as I want to do, I called my secretary, and she said, Call Mr. Kanner right away, your account. I said, Well, I'll call him from the hotel. She said, No, he seemed in a hurry. He seemed anxious. I said, All right, I called. He said, get over here right away. I said, we just came in from New York. Can we go? He said, Now we went over there. Heather stayed in the outer office for one of the secretary, my little eight year old. I went in and buddy said, well, guess what? There was a check made out to you for $10,000 I said, Really, I never got it. He said, I know. I said, What did it look like? And he reached in. He just gotten a xerox copy that day. Threw it across the table. Columbia Pictures industries check payable to Cliff Robertson, $10,000.02 officers named one a woman, the dress Bank of America, Hollywood and Vine. He said, look in the back. Didn't say what it was for. Just said $10,000 and then on the back was a florid signature, not mine, Cliff Robertson, a little stamp underneath it and initials. JL, I said, What does this mean? Mr. Kenner, he said it means this check was not cashed at the Bank of America Hollywood and Vine branch. It was cash five miles away at the at the Beverly Hills branch of wells, Fargo. And I said, Well, what's this little initial under the stamp? JL, he said, Well, that's initial of the man who okayed it at the wells, Fargo, Beverly Hills branch. What's his name? Joe lipscher. What does he do? He's the entertainment. And he Okay, yeah. Well, what does Mr. Lipscher say? He said, I've been able to reach him. Tried to reach him. He wasn't available. But he said, I talked to a woman down in Los Angeles on one of the other branches, and she said, Call back and ask for either Miss Fitzgibbons or Fitzsimmons, I can't remember it, and asked for her, because she is the one that processed it. So Mr. Kaner had done that, but she had told him, because I wasn't in the office yet, I was on the plane to she told him, Well, he could give him all the information. Bank rules say that I'm giving information to the individual involved. So I said, Well, call her. So he called her, picked up the phone. I'm on the other I said, Mr. Simmons, has given us. Mr. Gainer, I'm here with my client. Mr. Robertson, Oh, yes. Would you give us the rest of the information? I'd be happy to use. Very straightforward, racing to be above board and honest. When was it brought in, she gave the date. And when it was brought in, it was okayed by whom, by Mr. Lipscher, in charge of entertainment. And then it was processed, yes, by me, and it was in cash, no American Express travelers checks, and it was for who, well, the president, call me a picture. Stay with people. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=603.0,1408.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The traveler's checks had been made out to him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1409.0,1411.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: For him, it had been okayed by lipstick. But he did a lot Columbia Pictures. Did a lot of work at that branch bank, so he knew Lipschitz, so he just get now his story later on, Trent done it with other people too. Was that he had advanced any money or something,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1412.0,1431.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and other other people had not discovered they just paid the taxes and did not look","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1432.0,1435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: at them. Other people were Marty Ritt, big liberal director, they just nobody,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1436.0,1443.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and when they figured it out, but didn't want to squeal, basically,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1444.0,1447.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, not looking at their No, they're looking they're looking at their money. That's right, people were giving them jobs. They don't know how many of them were made, but what happened, Mr. When Mr. Gaynor called up, and then she said, Thank you. He hung up. He looked at me, and I'll never forget. He said, Cliff, you're sitting on a hydrogen bomb. He said, This guy is very powerful right now. He's also very big gambler. He's in with Las Vegas and all these characters, and what are you going to do? And I said, I'll never forget first thing I said, I wish it were you instead of me. I said, I what am I going to do? Whatever the law says. He says, Well, I got to tell you, you are now an accessory. You have all. All this evidence you have the check you at the woman, you're an accessory. You would be an accessory unless you give it to the authorities. Okay? He said, Maybe you better get a lawyer. I said, Well, I'm not a cop, but I better not get a Hollywood lawyer. The too many. So I call my old friend Seth huffstetler, whose wife is a former on the cabinet, and Jimmy Carter's cabinet helped him offer, you know, I forgot her first thing. She was a judge. Seth huffstetters wife, anyway, I call Seth because his former partner had been like a grandfather to me. Beersly, Chuck beersley, and I'd known him for years, and he had died. So I called Seth. He said, Get down here right away. So I went down there with Heather. She's exhausted, and Heather stayed in the outer room. And he said, Any and I brought papers. I brought the Xerox copy of the check that Mr. Channer gave me, and all the telephone logs and all that stuff. He said, Okay, you've done the right thing. And he said, if you hadn't done the right thing, you could be it's high crime. You'd be an accessory to high crime. You are witness to forgery. The whole thing. Got all over. You've done the right thing. He said, I will get this to the he said, Where are you going? I said, Well, we're on the way to New Zealand. We're going to leave in about 30 hours. He said, Well, where are you staying? I told him, beer hotel. He said, No, you're not. I said, Yeah, we have reservation. And you have to, know must have Sutley, very unemotional, flat, gray eyes. He never gets excited, very conservative. He said, You're not staying in any hotel. I said, Yeah. He said, Cliff, listen to me carefully. By now, obviously this is trickled upstairs. People know, the public doesn't know, and therefore certain people would not be heartbroken if something happened to you, the truck hits you. And you have to understand what's involved here. We're talking about powerful people, huge amounts of money. Oh, okay. I said, Okay. He said, so I would suggest to you, I would insist, that you'd not stay at any hotel or stay with any person in the business, because they might track you down. He said, It's very unlikely at this point, but he said, Now, he said, I will get this into the attorney's office tomorrow, and when you come back in two weeks, it should be all pretty much a pay to complete. Meanwhile, I had to go out to Heather, and I said to Heather, I couldn't think of anybody. And I remember this, when Heather was out, I used to take her to Disneyland with another little girl named Kathy, and her father lived in Hollywood. He had four daughters. So I said, Do you have his number? She had looked up in her little red address book, and she said, Yeah, daddy gives the number. So I called him. I had to lie to him. I said, we're here. We can't get a hotel room. He said, in all of New York, all in all LA, he said, must be a lot of convention. And I said, Yeah. He said, All right. I couldn't tell him why, but he understood it was important. He said, Well, double up. You guys can stay here. So I went up there. I stayed in the house. He said, Don't go out till you go to the airport. Now, it's beginning to be so bizarre. Wait a minute, I don't even live in this stupid town, and this is just this is kind of surreal. And Heather kept saying, Daddy, don't you have to go to work. I said, No, no, I just so we on the we took the cab to the airplane, we got to altitude, and I ordered a bottle of shampoo. Actually, they gave me a bottle of champagne. She said, Heather. Heather said, Daddy, you don't drink very much normally. I said, Honey, there's a time in every man's life when you drink. Took us about 14 hours to get down there, or more. And I did the thing, and we came back into it was very successful. It took care of their men. Came back a couple of weeks and called Mo, I mean, I called Seth. He said, get out of town.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1448.0,1760.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I said, what? I just got back. I just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1761.0,1763.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: got back. He said, get out of town. I said, Did you give this to the district attorney? He said, Yes. Mo Seth huffstead was a former head of the California Bar. This is not some shocky two bit lawyer and a man of high integrity. He said, for now, don't let anybody in this town know who you are. Get out of town. So I called a pal of mine back in the Illinois pilot who had always said, any time you and your kids you want to come back here, live on that kid. It. So I called bill. He subsequently was killed in a plane crash. But he's wonderful guy, so I went back there and took Heather and told my wife where we were. He said, Don't tell anybody but your wife, what's going on. He said, I'll be in touch with you. He called me, well, I don't know what, 10 days later, I guess. He said, I just got inside information. Surprise, surprise, the Hollywood police, the Beverly Hills police, the Burbank police, won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. I said, won't touch what this is not an assumption or a presumption. This is bona fide evidence. The woman in the bank, and it was cash. He said, I know. I said, What about the district attorney? He said, I'll call you next week. He called me the next week, and I said, What about the district attorney? Seth, and I'll never forget, that's when the Harris went on the end. He said, Granada, that's when I hung up. I said to my wife, oh, I said to Seth, before I hung up, I said, Seth, tell me what's happening to our country. He said, What do you mean? I said, when does a victim of crime? High crime, felonious crime. When does the victim have to run away from the perpetrators? What's this all about? What do I do? And then that thing that really upset me, because he was honest, he said, I don't know. So I said to my wife, well, I've got to think about this. I went in the other room. I got to get somebody counsel here. Oh, MO. I called mo in Washington. Told him on the phone, what happened. He said, I understand, because I knew he would give me counsel that I was, you know, physically concerned for my family, forget the professional thing that put down the Slough. I knew that, but I knew that I'd done the right thing, and I knew that I wasn't going to let this bunch of thieves. So I called Mo and he said I told him everything in detail. He said, Okay, he said, because they have offices out there. And he said because it happened there FBI. He said they have every right to look into this, because they it was done in LA, and FBI officers are on that. And I said, Okay, so we call the FBI, and they quickly said, come on down to Washington. Had a couple operatives meet me at the airport, took me up to the offices. I gave him all the papers, and is your machine till going? Okay, gave him all the papers, and he said, Okay, what are your schedule? I said, Actually, I'm supposed to leave in two days for England to do a movie. He said, Don't say a word to anybody. You go to England, but we'll be in touch with you. I went to England, so was in touch with the FBI. It was arranged that I would go to work in a car. I had a driver take me to work. You know, when you're working starring in this movie. But it was a with a seat, a citron. The seat would go back, put a blanket over my face. We'd go in the back way, so that he explained to me that, you know, they put a hit on you. It's International. They give some guy. Here's the guy here, he's going to work. Here's his face, some hit man. He doesn't know you from Charles Brown, but he knows who you are, and he's got a contract, so I had to go and do that whole picture. Now, what movie was that it was a picture with it was called Dominique","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=1764.0,2033.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: with Gene Simmons. That must have been a frightening time for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2034.0,2037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it was interesting. So anyway, but I wasn't allowed to say anything. So then, but I kept my ears open. And then the driver would take different routes of work and FE I'm touching me in London. They're very good, very nice. So then one day, a producer came, oh, then I got a call from New York, and my wife said, let me read you the headlines of variety. David begelin resigns pending an investigation for financial irregularities. The FBI said, don't say anything. So then a producer came in, a guy who I knew, a nice guy, had done a film for him, and having lunch with him, about six different actors there, they were all talking about, what's historian Beagle and resigns pending financial you know, they're all the subject. I'm sitting there with four foot ears. I'm not. I'm acting. Mr. Dumb. I don't. Know anything, but I'm listening, and I'll never forget. He said, Well, you know, the whole thing's a farce. Somebody said, What do you mean? He said, Well, you're kidding. They've got PR people there Columbia. They can be one's got access to them. And he's already got Jud Marmore, who was a psychiatrist of the stars, coming out to visit him and making sure that the people can see him walking up and down the aisle, so that people say, Well, if it's a temporary aberration, you know, just a temporary thing, and this all, but he said they're slick. And he said, I guarantee you he'll be back in power in six weeks. He was wrong. Four weeks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2038.0,2145.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Amazing, amazing. So anyway, I just sat there and listened to always did the film","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2146.0,2153.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: came back, and finally I called a there was concern, you know, that maybe somebody was going to do something. So that's when I called Kate Graham The Washington Post, I tell them all. I said, you know, I'm not gonna, I put on my reporter's hat. I was sitting there. I was listening to it and and Dana came back from some fancy club, and she said, Oh, this woman was there. And they were talking about, what a wonderful man, big one was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2154.0,2195.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all this stuff. No, Dana was Dana","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2196.0,2197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Merrill, my former wife's wife. Okay, we're married 22 years. But she wanted to move to Hollywood, so she went out there and got married again third time. But anyway, so then when Kay Graham, she said, Well, will you be willing to cooperate? I said, Wharton, all it. Was kind of buried though it was on it came out on Christmas. Oh yeah, and I was up in skiing. I immediately got a call from Ray Stark, because he was one of the guys that put big one up there. Immediately, how he found me, I don't know. I said, Hey, listen, Ray, I I'm not a prosecutor persecuting and prosecuting. I am simply doing what my lawyer said was the right legal thing. I said, I will not, I will not be a part of any of this stuff. And whatever happens, the law takes this fine. But I said, I'm not on any witch hunt or anything else, but I don't play those games. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2198.0,2264.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I gather Mo was basically pretty supportive. Oh, was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2265.0,2267.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he ever he later on, had it put in the Congressional Record.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2268.0,2270.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, did he really, yeah, got a copy of it. Now, what did he have put","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2271.0,2274.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in? Basically, he said, you know that with all the I can't remember the thing, but he said, it appears, with all this Hollywood gate stuff, that there are some people who really are not afraid to stand up for what's right. And I think we should recognize Cliff Robertson, and it's in the correction record","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2275.0,2296.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's fascinating. And that all happened right after, not too long after you got to know Mo, then,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2297.0,2300.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, not too long, a few years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2301.0,2306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: five years, I guess. Let me ask you, really, probably the last question that I have concerning Mo, what would you say in your estimate are Mo's greatest strengths and weaknesses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2307.0,2324.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think he had a love for mankind, obviously, and he had a love for nature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2325.0,2336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And he wanted the two to love each other. I think he wanted a, he felt like a custodian to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2337.0,2347.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He had a, an insight, very sympathetic insight, to the little guy. As I said in my eulogy, in my poem yesterday, he never looked down on anybody man this towering strength and influence, but he never looked down on anybody looked right straight across. How","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2348.0,2378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: about his weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2379.0,2381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know that I can comment on his weaknesses. I never saw any. I never saw any maybe, you know, I mean, maybe his, I. A family would know that, or his wives, or something like that. But I never knew, never knew any Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2382.0,2407.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's wonderful. I don't have any more questions. Do you have anything you'd like to add? Or shall we get you to the airport?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2408.0,2413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Bless your heart. Thank you. I could add, we got a little tape, got a little more. Well, let me just finish up on that. So anyway, I didn't work for about three years. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2414.0,2426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I apologize. I didn't know we had more to go on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2427.0,2431.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, later on, when a guy named Doug Trumbull, who does not enjoy the fatuous fruits of Hollywood lives up in the cabin in Maine, and he was going to direct the film, and he hired me. And from then on, I started working again. So I then my agent at the time told me what was going when it went on for those during that three years. I mean, I got to keep working. So I wrote a play for for my wife, and we did. She was in it, and so was I, and I was asked to speak at colleges about corporate corruption. You know, I never considered myself Don Quixote, with or without portfolio. I just, I just did what I knew was right, and I would not bow down to that kind of pressure","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2432.0,2486.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and evil. Do you think that that has dogged you at all? Sure. Oh, it killed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2487.0,2490.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: my career, sure. Oh, everybody says, you know I was, I'd won Academy Award and all that. Oh, yeah. And I knew. And people say, Would you do it again? I said, in a New York minute, have to have to I had a phone call from one of these Hollywood characters. I get these interesting phone calls, as the FBI said to me, he said, we're not dealing with the mafia here. Says there's not a bunch of guys that meet in a motel upstate New York, and have somebody come around and say, you know, do you treasure your knees? We're talking about some very, very smart, much smarter people. And he said they don't care about Cliff Robertson. He said, You've got to understand what you have done is you've interrupted a 30 year honeymoon or longer. I said, What do you mean? They said, these people, power, people I talk about in Hollywood, have enjoyed this immunity, and the unwritten covenant in Hollywood has been, thou shalt never confront a major, big mogul on corruption, or Thou shalt not work, just simple as that, and you have broken the covenant, and they don't care about you. Cliff Robertson, what they are being smart care about is that maybe you, by breaking the covenant, have set a precedent, and it was right, because within 24 months after I did that, Florence, Olivier, Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Richard Attenborough, James Garner, among other people, start coming out of their closets on what the zone has created, bookkeeping and started coming out of their respective closets and confronting these people. So we broke the honeymoon, so we're proud of that. Now. I'm a board member and have been for over 20 years of Screen Actors Guild, so we have access to a lot of information. We were interested to see if, the year after we blew the whistle, if it would have an effect on the residuals to the actors, never mind the directors or the writers or the producers Union, but were the actors alone? So we found out that after I blew the whistle, and I use that term only because I can't think of another term, but it was not a I just simply gave it to the authorities. You know, I said, do what the law says. Said, I am not going to be an accessory to high crime, do what the law says. It wasn't like this man to make a temporary little mistake. He had a Trent. He had been doing it to a lot of people, and he had a slush fund, and he had all kinds of when he died, he killed himself finally. Well, we're not sure whether he did or because he had big gambling debts, but he was in more scandals after that. He put Columbia MGM, then he got he was made after that, after Columbia, and he got off when David McLintock, former Wall Street investigative reporter, was asked to he was going to write a book about this. He asked me, will you help? Will you give I should sure tell it to you, whatever. You know, what he said, Well, you know, it might be dangerous your career. I said, Look, come on. I'm already so i So he wrote the book called decent exposure, and he told a lot of stories about some of the people, one of the figures in there, every one of those people but me, ended up with money, not I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317#t=2491.0,2493.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270317/transcript/78638/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/638/original/azu_ms396-035_side2_a.vtt?1744914567","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/638/original/azu_ms396-035_side2_a.vtt?1744914567"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - azu_ms396-036_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1035.912,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/318/original/azu_ms396-036_side1_a.mp3?1744847892","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1035.912,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Getting older. This is tape number 31 a continuation with Cliff Robertson. Go ahead,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=0.0,6.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when David McLennan wrote the book in decent exposure, which was about my blowing the whistle on this whole call me pictures, David beagleman scandal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=7.0,19.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: What year was that written? Do you know? I guess it was probably 8180 81","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=20.0,28.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I told him. I He said, Well, are you willing to cooperate? I said, of course, gonna hide from the truth. So he wrote a very good book, and he made a lot of money. I'm glad for him. I for him, but all the characters, with exception to me, ended up making a lot of money, being when God ended up he got a severance thing and a lot of money. And all the other people did too. But one of the figures in the book, evidently, and it's pretty obvious, said to a clinic or made an agreement with clinic. I never confronted David on this, but in a way I have, but I never would embarrass him, that he would tell David who said what? In the boardroom, boardroom, because he was on the board this one other guy who said, what? But he wanted his his hat whitened a little bit. So David kind of made him look like a kind of almost victim, but he wasn't a victim. He ended up a lot of money too. This is not an actor. This is another one of these big shots. So you see what had happened. Then I got a call from Lucien. Lucien, I want to say Wayne Scott Lucian, good writer. He was writing an article for New York Times, raised a lot of hell. It was called a Sunday supplement, and it was going to be called a the something of Hollywood. It was about the Allen brothers, Charlie Allen, the Allen brothers, that was not the original name, but they have a company called Allen, Herbert Allen and Charlie. Now there's Herbert Allen, Jr. You probably heard about him. He's a big wheel. He was the head of he sold Columbia to Sony, and he's the son of Herbert Allen. They move in a fast track. They're very powerful, very rich. Now the more whole respectable brokerage firms from my friends tell me that the Allen brothers are considered smart, but they choose not to do business with them because they've had a lot of ties with organized crime. They started as bucket brokers in the 20s. You know what a bucket? No, I don't. Bucket broker was a term. See, anybody and everybody. Filling Station operators were selling stocks in those days. My wife, former wife's father, who had no didn't even graduate in high school. They had to quit school at 14. He ended up the stock broker. I mean, a lot of people didn't, you know anybody and everyone. Well, the Allen brothers were these brothers. I don't what the original name was, Jewish name, but they had a they started a brokerage firm, and they were known in those days as the bucket brokers, as bucket brokers. And bucket broker was the guy who was taking all these orders on the phone, and then after you get the order, he just throw it in the bucket. So anyway, but they, there have been a lot of questions, but they've never been to jail. Very powerful in New York anyway, they Ray Stark, who was power without portfolio, because he had done Funny Girl, and he was very powerful, call me, and did some other pictures and been very successful. And I knew Ray. He's a smart little guy. You see him up there. He used to go up there with his wife, scheme from New Jersey, deceptively kind of a funny little guy. You know, funny always kind of, but could be not a guy to to heaven as an enemy anyway, not someone to mess with no right. They say that he is one of the guys, along with Charlie Allen and Herbert Allen. And of course, Lucien, true, Scott. He's the outdoor character. Lucien called me one time and said, Cliff, they didn't go back far enough. I said, Who? He said, Oh, the Newsweek and all these people talking about Holly mcgate. He goes back further than that. I said, What do you mean? He said, it goes back to pre Castro in Cuba. I said, gruesome. What's that got to do with it? He said, before Castro took over Cuba, there was big gambling in Cuba and Havana and. And the head of it was a charmer named who had been arrested 40 times and never served a day in jail, named Meyer Lansky. Meyer Lansky. Meyer Lansky was a big, big organized crime figure. Never served a day in jail. He was Jewish, but he worked for the he was the top guy in the Italian Mafia, he was a smart he's a brains. He was in charge of the gambling. When Castro took over, he kicked the gamblers out. He set up Meyer, another gambling syndicate in the Bahamas, and among his partners were Carol Rosenblum, who died very mysteriously off of Palm Beach water witnessed by a Canadian visitor, a guy in the scuba city used to go swimming every morning. Carol Rosenblum was the owner of the LA Rams. His wife is now the owner of now they've moved to St Louis, I guess. Carol Rosenblum, Elliot Hyman Ray, Stark partner of Elliot Hyman and a guy named another big Canadian gambling figure. I'll think of it before it's over, but these guys were all in partners with Meyer Lansky. Now, when they when Ray Stark and the Columbia boys, according to Lucien true, Scott the Master Plan was they knew they were going to be coming in May. They knew they were going to make a lot of money with a picture called encounters of a third kind, about aliens and the master plan. According to Lucien true, Scott was Lucien Trent had a very good ride. His father was a big hero in World War Two West Point and all that stuff, when they knew that that in Congress of a third Congress, going to be successful, according to Lucian, he told me in the phone. He said the master plan was to puff up the stock and right at the height sell it to United Artists, and he said they stood to make 60 additional million dollars. So when you blew the whistle on these people, you were not being very friendly. And therefore it's no surprise if you're not working, but it may not be no surprise that something happens to you now they printed it the godfather of Hollywood. They called Charlie Allen. They showed him 21 they call him well, he is powerful, and he got, I gave a Rosenthal of us, the editor, then at times them to do a little kind of a apology the following week. It wasn't my it was trying to say, well, there's no direct evidence. But in other words, the pressures were there on the New York Times. So the thing is, Mo recognized the powers that were I was fighting against. Somebody said, Never get an argument on anybody who buys ink by the barrel. That's an old thing about don't ever take on a newspaper or anything like that. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=29.0,485.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: this. This lasted for three years, or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=486.0,487.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, three and a half years I did three and a half years I did a movie. Some guys came to me and asked me to do a rewrite on a script, and then they asked me to end up directing and being in it. But it was a little film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=488.0,502.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you feel like that has still dogs you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=503.0,506.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, of course. I mean it to this day, it dogs me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=507.0,513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do people bring it up ever? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=514.0,515.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: because is it subtle. It's subtle. But if you're working, I'll give an example. Jane Fonda, I know Jane. We did a movie together a Sunday in New York, and Jane has always been very you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=516.0,536.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: militant, militant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=537.0,541.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: But in the middle of this, I saw Jane at a commissary at the MGM thing. She saw me. I used to go eat where all the regular people were, some of the corners of these stars I keep special. And she saw me. She said, Hi cliff. I said, Oh, Hi Jane. As I walked over, she reached her dark glasses. I'll never forget that. I'm going to use that in a movie sometime. She's kind of a subliminal thing. She couldn't look me in the eye. And now she's married to Turner. And I know Ted, and I saw them now she they wanted to go down to they had a thing in Atlanta a year ago for unwed mothers. So I went down and I saw her. She didn't put on dark glasses in but I could the I wrote an article in New York Times in the an op ed page, and it was called about the firm woman of fear in Hollywood. It that in right around that time, and I said in effect, that whether you're first generation American or eighth generation American, most of our ancestors came over here out of a sense of moral outrage, with the exception of the blacks who were forced to come here. So the moral outrage, whether it was a George the Third or a czar, dictator, military, government, inability to worship the way you want to, whatever it was with two cents, if we had it, and great guts and gumption, our ancestors came over here and a remarkable 205 whatever years it is, it carved this remarkable country, remarkable country. But we, my grandmother, used to made me learn, I think it was Elohim Wilcox, a poem called, speak up and express yourself, whether you agree or you disagree, take advantage of the fact that you live in a country that allows free speech. Speak up and express yourself. Don't sit and suck your thumb. Pet the dog and say mother loved me but she died. Don't feel sorry for yourself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=542.0,674.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Sounds to me like this whole experience of yours would make a wonderful movie,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=675.0,677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, but nobody would release it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=678.0,680.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's a problem, isn't it. People call","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=681.0,683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: me from England, they said, Wow, what a movie, but these guys will see too. They'd buy it, put it in the shelf and never come out. And I said in this article in The New York Times, I said, Hollywood, rightly so. It takes great pride in the fact that they point a finger of judgment at a lot of evils and ills in this country and abroad, governments and bad things, and that's to the credit. But the interesting thing that's not to the credit is they're very reluctant to turn that thing of admonition 180 degrees back of themselves. To me, the strength of a party, an individual or a company or an industry is the ability to turn around and look at themselves","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=684.0,722.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well, and we're seeing that now being something that that they're saying is true of doctors and lawyers or any profession, is self policing in Washington. We're definitely seeing it in Washington, inability","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=723.0,734.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to accept the responsibility. Yeah, self policing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=735.0,738.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and totally, yeah, it's a problem in the country on an individual basis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=739.0,745.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Anyway, when Doug Trumbull hired me in the picture Natalie Woods, last picture, brainstorm, then that kind of broke it. Then people started hiring me again. But I still, I still feel it, because it's kind of you got a lot of newer guys there, but a lot of them are connected to the older guys. A lot of them are family. And you know, you become known as a guy that blows a whistle. You're not a team player, and teams don't always play correctly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=746.0,778.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And yet, the screenwriters guild still,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=779.0,783.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, they're, they're, they're the Directors Guild. I got a special commendation from the Screen Actors Guild for my stand, but, and from all kinds of people outside but in Hollywood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=784.0,798.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah. Well, as they say, That's Hollywood, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=799.0,804.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But the bottom line is, we're here for 20 minutes. Julie, if we're lucky, what's it all about? Alfie, you have to look at your kids without dark glasses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=805.0,818.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I had this guy phone me, I said, to tell you, and then I'll let you go. He called up, and I said, Finally, after he was kind of putting me sort of general persuasion, but it wasn't so gentle. And the whole effect was, yeah, you want to work in this town, play the game. So I finally said to this guy, there are two things I was in New York. I said, the two things you people out there don't understand, one is the word no, because you buy Yes, 365 days a year, you buy bodies, you buy jobs, you buy integrity, you buy press. You think anything and everything can be bought, and every one and you're wrong. And the second thing you don't understand is the phrase you don't scare me, because with all your ill gotten money and all the incipient power that goes with it, all that leverage, all those connections, houses on the hill, and the lobbyists in Washington, politicians in your pocket, all that power. You think anybody that says you don't scare me must be nuts. Lean into the cradle of the phone. I said, Hey pal, I'm nuts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=819.0,896.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=897.0,898.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: FBI. I told you later, that's the one thing they can't handle. They go back and say, the guy is nuts. God bless the nuts. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=899.0,910.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right. Amen, okay. Well, thank you very much for your time. We're going to add as sort of addendum, another poem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=911.0,921.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: This was written, am I on that? Yes. This was written November 10 and delivered at Tucson, back at the center, the Utah center. Yeah, everyone has one or did at one time, that idol, that hero, that that individual who stands out from the crowd, the commonplace the ordinary, that uncommon person on which we gage our highest marks, that figure of high esteem, yet oft times low profile, that one who seeks the Truth, not the grain, the good, not the gold, that rare and wonderful human being who enriched our lives, nourishes our soul and inspires us to reach higher further, to hold closer our fellow man, to distance ourselves From malice, to reject prejudice, to accept our differences, to recognize that we are brothers, all that we share this frail blue marble for such a short time that to give it life and to give Life meaning, we should we must share our love. Everyone has one, or did it one time? That idol, that hero, that individual who stands out from the crowd, the commonplace, the ordinary, that uncommon person. I did I still have that hero. He is my friend. His name is, oh, you doll. Thank you. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318#t=922.0,924.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146513/file/270318/transcript/78639/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/639/original/azu_ms396-036_side1_a.vtt?1744914595","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/639/original/azu_ms396-036_side1_a.vtt?1744914595"}]}]}]}