{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/ms3jw88j5r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["D. Burr Udall"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 3, tape 27"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Udall, Burr D. (interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1998-10-15"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Burr Udall conducted by Julie Ferdon. Burr Udall is brother to Morris Udall. Burr Udall discusses Udall family history."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.046 (uid)","MS396.047 (uid)","MS396.048 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Burr Udall conducted by Julie Ferdon. Burr Udall is brother to Morris Udall. Burr Udall discusses Udall family history."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 5 - azu_ms396-046_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2725.8,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/335/original/azu_ms396-046_side1_a.mp3?1744847942","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2725.8,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Good morning. This is tape number 27 of the Morris K Udall oral history project. It's Thursday, October 15, and we are at the office of David Burr Udall, 33 North stone suite 1700 in Tucson, Arizona. My name is Julie ferdon, and I would like to welcome bur Udall to another in a series of oral history interviews that form the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Bur thank you for participating. You're welcome. I'd like to start this interview by asking you the origin of your name. I assume that David came from your your your grandfather, David, David King, or your great grandfather, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1.0,44.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: think David King, I don't know. There's hundreds of David udolls. My dad had a friend named burr Porter. Was a rancher up there. So that's where the bur comes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=45.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that's where the bird comes from, okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=59.0,60.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Me a cow and a calf for being named after. Is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=61.0,63.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that right? How long did you have those? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=64.0,66.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know. Dad sold them, probably before I was two or three, I guess four or five. But the money in the Zion National Bank, you don't hear about me. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=67.0,79.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't. I want to hear about you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=80.0,84.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: When I was going to school to U of A I needed money, and I wrote that bank, and I said, Send me the money. And they wrote back and said, the only person who can withdraw the money is Levi su dollars. So I wrote him a letter saying, please send the money to my son and gave me address and signed Levi Sudol and came by return mail. But when dad died, I got the job of going through his office, and dad threw nothing away, but there were a bunch of things that had to be signed, and I signed them all, and I signed legal and nobody, and I wrote a lot, a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=85.0,123.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I remember signing Moe's name. Fact, I remember during the presidential campaign, one of a check or something signed by signed actually by Mo bounced because they didn't think it was his signature. Do you Do you happen to recall where the name Stuart and and Morris came from? Again, I know the King and I know the Lee","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=124.0,150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Morris, I'm not sure of, and I gotta get something. So let me move a little.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=151.0,162.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The Stewart comes from that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=163.0,163.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: oh, okay, from Eliza Luella Stewart, right, born in 1937","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=164.0,173.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, she died in 37 I hope. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=174.0,175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: okay, died in 37 Yes. David King, Udalls wife, yeah, all right,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=176.0,181.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: our grandmother, okay, life number one,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=182.0,185.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: okay, that answers that. But Morris,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=186.0,188.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Alma might know, I don't know. Okay, I've never known where Morris came from. You were born a guy up there, good friend of Dad's name Morris Boris could have come from that, I don't know that. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=189.0,205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you were born in 1929 correct? In St John's in the front room. Oh, that's was going to be my question. Were you born at home or in the hospital? They didn't have a hospital.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=206.0,218.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Carne Alma, I was born on the 20th of January, which is dad's birthday, and when he got mad at me, he always said, You're the worst birthday present I ever had. But anyway, Elma, Elma said that, you know, when the time was was there that they sent all the kids up to Uncle Grover's farm so that mom could scream and holler and do everything she wanted to do, and they wouldn't have to hear it. And they just added what was the dining room in our house? And I think the day I was born is the day they moved into, oh, really finished, yeah, that's where I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=219.0,260.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: born. So you were born in the room of the brand new house, right? Good way","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=261.0,264.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to dedicate to start off, for sure,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=265.0,268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: were all of were all of Levi and Louise's children born at home, to my knowledge, everyone else, okay? And that was, I gathered pretty much how it was done then, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=269.0,278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they had a guy up there named Ovi olverson. He was the midwife. And they never had a doctor up there. But, I mean, they had a doctor in the mid 30s, who was there about a year, who was a drunk, but everybody was born at home. And Ovi was I. Pig farmer, but he was also the midwife. So when the women got close, they went down to see him, to make sure he was going to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=279.0,309.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: be in town. Now, I think even now, the main Medical Clinic is in Springerville, or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=310.0,313.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, the nearest, it seems to me, the nearest place to St John's that had any doctors was either Gallup, New Mexico or globe. There wasn't anything in Holbrook, Flagstaff,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=314.0,331.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: but nothing in Holbrook. No interesting. Excuse me, um, now you were the youngest then of these six children did? Did I'm the youngest myself and my family? Did you find that any advantage or disadvantage growing up? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=332.0,347.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't think so. I was thinking coming down this morning because I didn't know what you were going to do. And I don't know why it went through my head, but when Stewart was appointed the Secretary, some reporter from the New York Times went to Phoenix to interview mom. And I tell the story because I guess it answers your question. I tell stories you know that good. But mom called me and said, you know, these people from big cities are crazy. This lady came out to interview me for to do a story about Stuart, and she asked Mom the question, when did you first realize that Stewart was the smartest and worst, most important one in the family? And her answer was, I haven't yet","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=348.0,411.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: good for her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=412.0,413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now I think maybe you know, being the baby, I got a little of the best of it for a while. But Mom and Dad, you were, I mean, it was true with all of us. Morris was one eye. He wasn't treated any different than anybody","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=414.0,426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: else was it was they were pretty even handed with you all, yeah, they were, yeah, they were. I'd","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=427.0,435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: like to ask some questions about your siblings as children, to the extent that you remember, let's start with Inez, your oldest sister, born in 1915 so she was, I guess, about 14 years older than you did. Did you know her very well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=436.0,453.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes and no. When, unlike Chandler, I don't remember what happened when I was one year old, and my memory is pretty spotty back when I was young, but I think ains started planks Teachers College in 34 I want to say so I was about five, then, then she was gone teaching, and then her husband was think he was in the Navy. I don't remember exactly, but during the war, she came back to St John's and tied high school, she taught English and Spanish, and I was one of her students, and I babysat her oldest child. It was a girl named Louise.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=454.0,507.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did she teach in the school system or Yeah, yeah. And she taught Spanish and in English and English,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=508.0,515.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we had seven teachers in that high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=516.0,518.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Wow. When? When did she marry?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=519.0,523.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I want to say 39 or 40, but I'm really not sure. And what did her husband do? Her husband was a teacher also, and then after the war, he taught some gene Turley was his name, and he got involved in business, and I couldn't tell you what, and they had all sorts of domestic problems, eventually got divorced, which is kind of unusual for Marmon, that way, I hope to help Mars. Got divorced all the time. Back then, it was kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=524.0,555.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: unusual. Do you know when that was approximately? I don't. Elma would know. Did she remarry? No, ever. Did he do? You know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=556.0,563.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, he did not. He died about a year and a half. He died after inas died, he was at her funeral.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=564.0,571.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did Did they stay Mormons? Did they remain Mormons? Yeah, yeah. Gene","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=572.0,576.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: came from the Mormon colonies in Mexico. That's where he came from, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=577.0,585.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about Elma? She was born in 1917, two years after Inez. What do you remember about her growing up? Well, I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=586.0,599.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Actually not a heck of a lot. Elma, I mean, we and I, she and I agree she was, she was my surrogate mother. She's She was the right age, so I was the one that she had to take care of. But she probably left in 3536 she went to Flagstaff for a while, came down here and worked at the U of A she's, I don't know if you ever interview, she's the most interesting person our family. I've always said that, and she was the secretary down here. And she's probably, she always told this story. Probably still does. I can't remember whether it was Lesher or the other guy. His name will come to me, but the first time she went over to get a paycheck, she walked in and he said, Elma Udall, you must be a Mormon. And she said, why? And he said, well, the Catholics name them, name their children, out of people, out of the Bible, and the Mormons just dream up names.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=600.0,670.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So she was working for a law firm volunteers. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=671.0,672.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was a secretary at the at the U of A in what department, I don't have any idea. Back then did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=673.0,678.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: either. So did Inez or or Elma go to college? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=679.0,683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I know. I just graduated. She went for four years at NAU and got her degree. Then in about the hell I have the back surgery, 4849 while in there, Elma, all of a sudden, figured out that she was the only one in the family that didn't have a college degree, and she went back school at ASU and got into","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=684.0,711.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 49 or 48 it's good for her. Good for her. Now, I understand she's sort of the genealogist for the family. That is true, and although she apparently got into that much later in life, she related in her oral history that when she was a teenager, your father, Levi Udall, gave blessings to the family, and the blessing that he gave her was that she would be a genealogist. Did all of Levi's children get patricians blessings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=712.0,747.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, we all got blessings. Elma, I mean, I can remember, you know, late 30s, we had so damn many cousins, you know, mom's family and dad's family, and Elma always prided herself on she was the dad would always get after you. You know, name all your cousins. Elma is the only one that could do it. And I think there were 50 4u dolls that she had to know by name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=748.0,778.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So that's probably where he, where he saw that coming, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=779.0,782.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and she, you know, she spent a lot of time, a lot of her own money, when she got digging into that stuff. And that's where, that's why the grab this thing that comes from her, she gave her one,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=783.0,795.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, that's a this thing. That's a great family tree. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=796.0,799.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: don't know where she found all the pictures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=800.0,803.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: They look original. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=804.0,805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they do, but she probably had them, you know, copied at some place, or tethered. I get things out as we go","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=806.0,819.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: now, was the patricians blessing? Was it often sort of a predictive thing, like you will be the family genealogist, or it could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=820.0,830.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: be, I mean, a lot of people kind of did it that way. But it wasn't normally, least to my knowledge, you know, you weren't necessarily going to have to do whatever they said you ought to do, or they thought you were going to do that didn't. It didn't work that way,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=831.0,852.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right, right? Do you recall what your blessing was? No, no, oh, I did was that? Was that something all Mormon fathers did, or was that something your father did as stake president? I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=853.0,864.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was something dad did as the stake president, you know, and they had patriarchs who do it in the church, but dad did it because of his position with the church, not because he was your father, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=865.0,882.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What Stuart, your oldest brother, was born two years after Elma in 1920 making him about, I believe, eight years older than you, right? What are your recollections of Stuart as a boy? Do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=883.0,898.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, my biggest recollections of Stewart are we. We had a farm about three miles out of town, and we farmed with horses. We didn't have didn't have tractors up there. They were still in the 18th century for a long time, and Stewart, he did two or three things. Number one, he was Morris. Was a good farmer. I was a good farmer. Dad was a good farmer. Stuart was terrible. Stuart, even back then, was like he is now. I mean, his head was had here someplace. He was always thinking about something and whatever we were doing when we got to the farm, his team, you hooked up first and got him out on the on the job, because you knew in 10 minutes they'd be back. He paid no attention to the fact he had a bunch of horses out there who were big and strong, and he'd be worried about whether Hitler was going to do this or what the depression was going to happen,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=899.0,973.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sort of the head in the clouds, yep, syndrome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=974.0,978.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: They're not a heck of a lot of change. And the other thing you know, I will never forget about Stuart is and he's good at it. He's still good at it, but every day, he would go through a dictionary and find a word he didn't know and use it all day long. I mean, he just wanted to choke him, yeah, whatever the word was, I bet that helped your vocabulary. Yeah, did, and it helped his but he years. I don't know if they still do it at the U of A or not. But they used to have a thing out there when I was there, and before I was there, called the Ellen wood contest. And it was open to anybody at the University of Arizona. I think the prize was $25 may have been $50 a lot of money back. And it was defined 100 words, and they'd give you the words, and I think you had an hour he wanted every year. And they used to run stories in the Wildcat years ago about here'd be a word that most everybody knew, and here's all these educated people, and their definition of it would blow you off the wall. I mean, you'd think, how could people go to college be that way about it? But they were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=979.0,1070.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so he was the intellectual, yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1071.0,1073.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was always, I mean, he was well read. We're all well worth it. I shouldn't say that, you know, but sterk. He liked, you know, opera and things like that. That maybe mom did, but I don't think most of us did. And he was sterks. His head's always been in the clouds. I mean, even today, he hadn't changed at all. I don't guess most of us have, but I mean, my memories of him, those are the two big things that stand out with me. And Stuart was him being such a lousy farmer and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1074.0,1117.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: those words a good student, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1118.0,1120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, I think we were all pretty decent students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1121.0,1127.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Would you like some time to find something? Okay, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1128.0,1130.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: can do it. My wife doesn't believe this, but I can talk and do these.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1131.0,1136.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about how about Morris? He was born in 1922 i What do you remember about him as a boy? How would you describe him? Morris","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1137.0,1146.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was kind of like the rest of us. He was the same way then, as as he was as an adult. He you know, I remember when I was little, my biggest boast was, it was my brother could take Isaiah and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1147.0,1167.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he could, you know, and did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1168.0,1170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and he Morris was always an organizer. They didn't have little league and all that stuff up there probably didn't exist back then, but he'd always, you know, organize the little kids, me and everybody else, and he was the pitcher, and we played softball in the backyard. And, you know. He was very good at getting that sort of stuff done. Some of the things I remember about Morris were probably seven or eight, I guess, but he had glass eyes, literally glass. And two or three times a year, mom would write to this outfit in Salt Lake City, and they sent Dan a case. It was two, three inches wide, about 18 inches long. That had glass. I had 2024, glass eyes, and it was a family project. You sat him down and poked eyes into that socket till you found one that fit the socket. And it didn't make any difference whether it matched the good eye or not, but fit the socket.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1171.0,1251.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, so it wasn't the color you were matching it for. It was the size,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1252.0,1255.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: okay. And then she the way I remember it, she would keep two eyes and then mail them back to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1256.0,1265.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did he ever have have mismatched eyes color wise? I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1266.0,1268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so. Yeah, I think so. And the thing that I mean, I don't know why I remember this, but I do for, I don't know, 456, years we slept in the same bed together. In that house, there were three bedrooms, and mom and dad slept in one bedroom, and the three girls slept in another bedroom, and then the boy's bedroom was one bed, and Morrison Stuart slept there. And they used to in the winter time. I still do. I sleep hot. So I was the bed warmer. They put me in everybody's bed. By the time I went to sleep, they put me out on the damn porch, where it was 10 degrees above zero. That's where I slept. But anyway, when we slept together, he would, and I don't know about later years, because I never didn't ask him, but I guess kind of like taking out false teeth or something. But when he went to bed, he took the eye out, and he had a glass of water that he put salt in and put that eye in it. And I don't know even today, when I go to bed, I take glass water with me, because if I wake up, then I'd wonder. So a lot of times I'd wake up and grab it and I'd end up with an eye in my mouth that I wasn't expecting. Stories here, get the wrong glass. Morris was a good farmer. You really need one. Mom dead the town. I mean, nobody, to my knowledge, ever treated him any different because he was missing an eye. I mean, that was a given fact, you know. So you didn't worry about a lot, and you probably heard this, but when he went to Denver to play pro basketball that one year the Denver Nuggets, it was their first year of pro basketball. And they wanted basketball players, but they also wanted good people. It was important to start. So they came to university, they talked to everybody. They went to St John's, they interviewed people, and they never knew he had one. And and I know he told me that he'd been there, like two months, and the coach was little shirt guy, and he came out and looked at him and said, you know which one can't you see? That's first, and how they found that out. I don't know. I don't know, but it was never, you know anything that I remember anybody talking about. It's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1269.0,1430.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: amazing the depth perception he must have had with only one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1431.0,1433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: eye. Yeah, I think a lot of it was, you know, he lost it when he was so young. But you and I would lose one we didn't have a terrible time, but, but he, he, he learned to deal with it. I know, you know, when he came here and to go to school at the University, and he signed up for ROTC, and they had him read the eye chart, and he did this and did that, and they thought he was perfectly fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1434.0,1461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, he just covered the same eye, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1462.0,1463.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I don't few months or whatever, some guy was trying to get in and had flat feet, and they wouldn't let him in. And he said, What's that got to do with you? Got a one eyed guy? They said, Who? Whoops, we spent. You know, the things I kind of remember, but I'm not real clear with but your day started, my day started. I'm sure their day started. You got up in the morning. You. You made sure the fire was still going in the kitchen so mom could cook breakfast. I don't remember that fire ever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1464.0,1505.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: going out. Do you remember what time you were up in the morning, about 534 or six, and was the fire in a fireplace, or was this a stove or fire? You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1506.0,1515.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: know, always, I mean, somebody put wood in it when we all went to bed, but that's the first thing to make sure that fire was gone. Then you went down and milked the cow and slapped dog and got the wood and all that stuff, and they could hardly wait till I was old enough to milk the cow because they didn't have to anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1516.0,1536.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That meaning Stuart and Morris","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1537.0,1540.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: present. You know, when in us, it was the oldest. She was the cow milker. So the store got big enough,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1541.0,1547.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so the girls had farm duties as well, sure, yeah, well, sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1548.0,1551.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And so I can kind of vaguely remember that, you know, they were both very interested in making sure I knew how to milk, because that was one chore they didn't have to put up with. You know, Morrison High School. What would I have? And he got a high school in 39 or 40 remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1552.0,1580.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Think it was 39 I think 39 that's what I would guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1581.0,1583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think so. So I was 10. You know, one time he left to go to high school, and that George de noon story I was showing you, that was 39 because he was, I remember when those guys came up there. So basically, you know, up till the time he went to the university, my involvement with him and with Stewart, I think Stewart went on his mission in 39 but I'm not sure that either, it could have been 40","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1584.0,1618.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Where did he go on his mission?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1619.0,1623.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He went the Mormon Church has a very good CIA, and if you have any good Mormon friends, I'll give you a clue. In 1912 they pulled all their missionaries back because the world was going to go to war. 1937 they did it again. So anytime I see my good Mormon people, I ask them, Are the missionaries still out there? Stewart was going to go to Australia, but because they pulled him back, they sent him to Erie, Pennsylvania, then they sent him to New York City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1624.0,1660.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And was that? Was he gone two years then? Or basically,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1661.0,1663.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1664.0,1665.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did? Did Morse do a missionary? The only","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1666.0,1668.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: start did and then inis, when inis was 6870, she went on a mission. Per year, they sent her to New York City, which made no sense to me, because he was very fluent. Always had been in Spanish, but, and maybe it's this, there's a big Spanish community back there, but that's where she went. No starts the only one of us that heroin, okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1669.0,1695.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Eloise, born in 1924","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1696.0,1697.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was going to tell you some more Morris. Oh, good. All right, terrific. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1698.0,1704.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: more stories, the better he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1705.0,1707.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Morris and I had to be about 10 or 11. Maybe I was 12. Maybe it was during the summer when he came back before the war. Morris, a very good poker player always had been and the Marvin church when you're 12, you're an adult. I mean, in my family, we talked a lot of things, but the main thing we talked was politics. And until I reached 12, nobody cared what I thought when I was 12, Dad would go, Alright, what do you think? I honestly think at 12, he would say, all right, Burr, what do you think? And I quit going to church. Morris quit going to church. And I Yeah, the church you've been to, st John, okay, the church was just, you know, right across street from where we lived. So as a high school and mom was teaching the class that I should be in up on the second floor of that old church. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1708.0,1778.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: now what, what grade was this? This was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1779.0,1783.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think I was, 1112, something like that. It was just age groups with the church as compared to, you know, like first or second grade.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1784.0,1795.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And was this a church school or a public school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1796.0,1798.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Church, they still do it. And anyway, we had a basketball court in the front of the house. And after about two Sundays, mom came home and said, you know, the least you could do is respect me, and I play basketball when I'm teaching the class that you want to be in where everybody else is looking at you? That seemed like a legitimate request, but what would happen is they had a poker game. The only guy I remember, there was a lot of people that played, and it started at our house at 1015 on Sunday morning, when after mom and dad went shirt, and it lasted until about a quarter of 12, and then we moved down the street to another house, and then we moved up to the newspaper. And then at the end of the day, we moved out to farmhouse, out on the hill where you had lanterns, it didn't have power, so you played poker all day on Sunday. And the rule was, Mars's rule was, when he got $50 ahead, I could play. So I sat around, didn't play for a lot of time, and he at one point, I don't know if he ever did get paid. He had a third mortgage in the printing press of the newspaper. The Editor, he wasn't a very good poker player. And when Marsh was in the army and overseas, and I think a first or second lieutenant, whatever, now he was made like $125 a month. He was sending home like 350 400 a month. And dad never couldn't figure it out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1799.0,1896.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is from his poker winnings, and he was sending them home for the help of the family. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1897.0,1901.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he was sent them home, putting a savings account for him. Okay, okay. Then when, when they sent him back from whatever island he was in, they sent him, it seems to me, to San Francisco, and he got up the boat and sent home, I think, like $1,000 and bought a brand new car with what he'd won playing poker on the boat. He was good at it. He was very good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1902.0,1928.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did he teach you how to play?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1929.0,1930.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Uh huh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1931.0,1931.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How, um, how did your parents react? When did you just decide you weren't going to go to church anymore. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1932.0,1940.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they are, yeah, no, I just said I'm not going. And, like I said, I'm an adult and I could do what I wanted. They the reaction was, you know, this is why you ought to go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1941.0,1953.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Had had your brothers already left the church by then,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1954.0,1957.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart had Stewart was on his mission. But Morris pretty basically in and that's probably why I did. I wasn't smart enough to do it on my own. I don't think. And, you know, I think that that Morris me, whoever our folks. They never forced you to do anything. They tried to reason with you and convince you you were wrong. But once I said, No, you know, it didn't die there. It had come up times at the time, but nobody ever said, you know, get your butt here, we're going to church.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=1958.0,2000.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Why did you decide? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2001.0,2003.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: don't know. Looking back on it, I don't have any idea why. Probably I was lazy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2004.0,2012.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Your sisters all continued to be with the church. Okay, very cool. Always kind of wondered about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2013.0,2019.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I know, you know, going backwards with Inez, and I said, when, when dad died, I got the job of going through all of his stuff. And I'm sure I threw away a lot of things that had some historical value, but my father never threw anything away. I mean, he had correspondence from 1918 in there. He had a file for all of his children, each letter we had ever written to him, and each letter he had ever written to us. He had a file that was called Children finances, and it starts off with Ins. And I think it's that's why I said 1934 it says ains, 1934 first semester, Flagstaff, room, books, board, tuition, $34 Wow. And then, as each of us came along, when he gave you money, you went on the ledger Stuart's the one who really got to him more than any of the rest of us, as I learned and then did my story, but I got to high school, went in the Army, got the GI Bill, came down here, worked at the infirmary, you know, and I never asked. My folks for anything. I was self sufficient until my last year in law school, and the GI Bill had run out. And I went to dad, and I said, Now, you know, I still got the infirmary job, but I need some help. And he said, Okay, what do you want? And I said, well, the government sends me $75 a month. That's what I want. And of course, there's books and that stuff. And he said, Well, if you didn't smoke and you didn't drink, you could get along in 30 a month. And I said, I'm not here to negotiate it. I want the 75 so he reluctantly sent it to me, and that's when I come on the list is the early 50s, and it says David Burr parent sees repayable. Now I'm the only one in the family that said repayable. Nobody else repayable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2020.0,2154.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Probably the only one who offered. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2155.0,2155.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, I didn't offer. I think he was so mad at me for drinking and smoking, and I would do it in front of him, but, my God, I was gonna pay the money back. I had to think that through for a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2156.0,2169.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you worked in the infirmary at the U of A, yes, we all did okay, because I thought mo had worked there. He did first. Okay they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2170.0,2178.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I actually, the infirmary Job was a jock job, and they got it for athletes. And there was a lady over there, dead, been dead for a long time, named Helen bocock, and she was the RN, and she ran it. And I had back surgery the year that Morris lifted Ender. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2179.0,2214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what was the surgery for?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2215.0,2216.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I had two ruptured discs in my lower back. Was this back from sports or lifting bales, lifting bales. And I can tell a lot of stories about that, but I won't but anyway, when I had the back surgery, I was it was back when they were experimenting back then, as I learned from my doctor later, but I wasn't gonna go to school. I heard so bad, and then Morris was gonna go to Denver, and he talked to Miss bocock, and she offered me the job. So I came down and took it. I couldn't it was too good. I couldn't afford nothing to take that job. And I took the fewest units that you could take and still stay legal at the university. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2217.0,2270.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: where did you have your surgery? Phoenix, good, same.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2271.0,2274.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Good thing. And, yeah, it's kind of funny. They had a deal in Springerville for a while, and when I was having all the back problems for I went in the Army, I went to see him. Dad sent me to see him, and when I got out of the service, I was having lots of trouble, and I never did go on sick call with the army. But Dan said, Okay, this, this deal is still he's in Phoenix. Go see him. So I went over and saw him, and he poked and pushed and he said, you know, you ought to go see a doctor. That's what I thought I was doing. I Yeah, and then one thing led to another, and I had the surgery, and they had me 24 days in bed before they let me up. And the guy who did the surgery at that time lived right across the street from my folks, and any time I'd come back, and he knew it, he'd come over and get me on the floor, pushing, poking. And I finally said to him, why? And he said, most of my patients I don't see with a month after surgery, you never see them again. And I said, Why was I in bed so long? And he said we were experimenting. He said we didn't know what we were doing. And the people in the East were getting them up within three or four days, the people in the Midwest were getting them up in 10 days, and the people in the West were keeping in bed for three weeks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2275.0,2376.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So this was an intentional Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2377.0,2378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that's kind of you had to have some guinea pig now you have that surgery, and they get you up the next day. Yeah, you're up in 24 hours and you're out in three days. Do you remember the doctor's name? Eisenbuys? Okay, in that. I mean, when I was in good Sam, I wasn't a happy camper. Dan. Love surgery. He came and watched. I had chest surgery. He came and watched. But once surgery was over, he and mom left the to I'm sure they went back up in the White Mountains. But it was July, and it was the time that the court was on recess, and he had a law clerk who was would come twice a week to make sure I was all right, and Elma was there going to school, and I'd see her. So one night, it's about day 19, I don't remember about four in the morning, and I'm not very happy being in that bed, and I wake up and there's a priest and a nun with one of those hospital trays with all this incense and stuff, and he's shaking me, and he said, I'm here to give you the last rites. And I said, I mean, you know, I was wide awake by then. I me. I said the doctor never told me I was that bad off. Then I said, I'm a Mormon. And he laughed, and the nun stood and held my hand, and I'm looking around thinking, what the hell's going on here. Then he came back and he said that you can go back sleep. We got the wrong room. Oh, good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2379.0,2485.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, brother. Now, when did you have chest surgery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2486.0,2492.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 40 years ago? Wow, I had valley fever, and everybody has valley fever, and I developed a hole in this lump that would never close, and it just sealed off. So they took out part of that lump. It was between my daughters. That's I'm no good on dates.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2493.0,2510.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Now that did you have that surgery here in Tucson? Mary at St? Mary's,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2511.0,2516.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: okay? Yeah, see, I'm not a good patient and and not a patient. Patient. Today we're having the surgery, and dad came down to watch. He won this hit, and the guy who did it was a guy named O'Hare who was just about six, five and 300 just a bear of a man. And I'm laying in the waiting room. They're getting ready to knock me out. And he walks in. He's got, I always remember he's got a lot of wine shirt on. I go like this, and he comes over, this was a doctor or your brother doctor. And I said, I don't care, but my wife does, and before we start the surgery, I want to know what the limit of your malpractice policy is he came unglued. I mean, he got mad, mad, mad. And finally I said, you know, you can't take a joke. Cool Dad, that's that surgery is the worst at the getting into the chest cavity, to me, is the worst you can do. And we probably shook him up a bit first, yeah, and he was, well, that's where I'm going to and he was mannered him. And you wake up and they have to collapse the lungs, so now they got tubes stuck in you to drain the lung. You're hooked up to all this stuff. You hurt like hell, and the first thing the nurse says is cough, and you say, No, I'm not going to do this. And they explain to you what you're going to do. And we had a friend who was a nurse and actually knew a lot about chess, and you need the first three days. You need 24 hours a day nursing care. I mean, you could have a private nurse, and she set all that up. So we did the surgery in the morning. I remember that, and the next day, now, he probably came in before, but I don't remember it. The next day he came in, making these friends, and he said, How are you doing? And I said, it's killing me. It just hurts like hell. And I got a very high pain tolerance, and I know that. And he said, Well, you know, after what you said in the surgery room to me, I haven't given any pain medication. I'll start it today, I thought you said","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2517.0,2654.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a man with his own sense of humor. Yeah, that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2655.0,2656.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: his way of getting even. That was his way of getting even","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2657.0,2660.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: boy, let me ask you just a bit about Eloise. Okay, we got Do you? Do you recall her as a child?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2661.0,2673.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I remember more about her, probably than than the other ones, because she's closer to my age. She and I felt like cats and dogs. I mean, we were the right age to do that. I don't. And there's three or four stories I tell about it always I must have been sex five or. Six, and she's four years older than I am, and we were down at the wood pile fighting over, who's gonna chop the wood. She's stronger. We get the AX up like this, and she whacks me on one foot, and I hop, and she whacks me on the other foot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2674.0,2715.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: with the AX, with the AX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2716.0,2720.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And I go running up the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335#t=2721.0,2723.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270335/transcript/78712/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/712/original/azu_ms396-046_side1_a.vtt?1745252786","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/712/original/azu_ms396-046_side1_a.vtt?1745252786"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 5 - azu_ms396-046_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2666.064,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/336/original/azu_ms396-046_side2_a.mp3?1744847944","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2666.064,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, okay, we're on side B, and you were just saying how your sister Eloise was attacking you with an X, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1.0,5.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So everybody thought that was not too good. And then it was about that period of time that I saved and saved and saved and sent off to somebody probably Sears Roebuck, and got a watch, wrist watch, and it came in the mail. I think it cost me a buck 80 or 210 or something, but it was a lot of money to me back then, and I never got to where she came and said, you know, the mail came and she said, we're all going swimming, and I cannot borrow the watch because I have to be back at four o'clock or whatever. Sure. Well, she went swimming with it on. It wasn't waterproof, so she she forgot she had it on. I'll give her credit for that. And then the other thing I remember about Eloise, and like I say, we fought, was we up there. We had supper, probably 536, o'clock. Seems like everybody said, Anne wreck. I mean, you know, there wasn't any television. We had a radio that could get Albuquerque. Think it was koi and Phoenix and Salt Lake. There was no local radio station. Very seldom did anybody ever turn it on. And so we always sat in the front room in red and I was mad at her for something. Don't remember why. And I remember looking at her thinking I had a blue indelible pencil and I must have been doing homework. I remember looking at her thinking, Morris can live with one eye, and so can you? So I tried to put it out. How old were you? Probably about eight. She's not coming and duck. So she's got a little blue mark right here in her eyelid. But I didn't get her eye despite all my and what did your parents they thought that was all my fault. They weren't too strong for me doing all that stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=6.0,145.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now what? What kind of punishment was dished out in their family for things like that? Usually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=146.0,151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was more chores, which was kind of hard to do because you had plenty of chores to keep you busy. Uh, corporal punishment. You really had to get like that. I don't remember dad beating on me or mom beating on me. If you got a line up there, the nearest adult waxing, I mean, and when you got home, then you got it, you know, because the word was out, it didn't take long. They didn't have very good phone system or a lot of things, but it didn't take long to get the word back to what's going on. I know, you know, I guess I was 16, and three of us, we found an Indian, gave him some money and bought him a bottle of whiskey, bought us a bottle of whiskey, and we went out in the desert, at Desert, the dunes outside of town, and got drunker in hell, sicker in hell, and all those things. And by 530 mom came in, remember that this distinct disease, and shook me and said, It's time to get up and milk the cow. How's your hangover? And I thought, how the hell is she, this woman, you know, eventually she said we were out trying to find you. How old were you then? I think I was 16,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=152.0,242.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so you had a fairly normal child. Oh, yeah, it was pretty normal. Now, if you and Eloise fought because your age was close, does that mean that that Morris and Elma fought and Stuart and Einstein Morris and Stuart fought, probably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=243.0,256.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Inez and Elma fought, I can't answer that, Julie. I know, you know. I can remember when I was six, seven, whatever, it was very clear that Morris was going to be bigger than Stewart, and at least twice a week Stuart taking down the wood pound to beat the hell out of me, because he was not. And I bet you to this day, Morris would be as scared of him physically because he got his bluff in early. But I don't, you know. I don't think that any Marsh or Stewart, for instance, ever fought with Elohim. Yes, and I'm sure that Ines nelma thought, I mean, I don't have any doubt my mind about that, but Eloise and I fought all the time. We were just at the right thing, and it offended me at the time, and I still don't know why, but when I graduated from high school, she graduated from the U of A same day. So mom and dad had to make a choice, would they stay in St John's or come here? And they came here, they came here. And I remember thinking, you know, she's not as important as I am. But they were right. They made the right choice. I mean, it was That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=257.0,341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a tough one, though that's a tough one, especially when you're the youngest, I think you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=342.0,346.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: baby. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=347.0,349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: let me ask you about one other person in your life as as a child, I believe is Rex Lee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=350.0,357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What? The younger, the older?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=358.0,360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I'm thinking, I was thinking of Rex, who be, who eventually became Solicitor General of the United States. That Rex, how's that junior?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=361.0,367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, yeah, his dad was Rex Lee. And I'm not sure Rex, I'm sure they're not a junior his father. I hardly remember all his father was murdered, or he was born, and his father was mom's youngest brother, but anyway, he lived about three quarters of the block from where we lived. He came here, probably here being St John. No, the University of Arizona, they did the law school did something to honor him. And I think he was, at that time, the president of BYU. He was through being the Solicitor","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=368.0,412.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: General. This wasn't too many years","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=413.0,413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: ago. No, and they had a reception over at the old Why am I drawing a blank across the street? I can't remember the old Pueblo club. And I was invited, and I went to the thing they did for Rex, and he said, and he's, it's accurate. You know, if somebody would ask me, even today, who my oldest brother was. I'd tell him birth, because that was my job. My mom made sure wherever I went when, but time he was four, I took him like Morris would have to take me something involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=414.0,456.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So, so he didn't live with you. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=457.0,459.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: okay, no, he lived with his mom, and she eventually got remarried, and But Rex, you know, but time I got let's see. Rex is probably born in 3534 35 so I was about six years older than he was, and by time I got to high school in 46 he would have been about 10 or 11. And from then on, we, you know, we talked every now and again, but we had very low tan tuck and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=460.0,495.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: his father, who would have been your uncle, Rex. Do you recall approximately how old you were when he died?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=496.0,501.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think five or four,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=502.0,506.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: because Elma, in her oral history, mentioned that she thought that Rex Lee, and so it must have been the father used to take Morrison Stewart hunting and fishing. He did. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=507.0,516.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Rex, my uncle was a great outdoorsman. He loved to hunt. He loved to fish. He made his own bullets, you know, and I'm sure he took, took them a lot, and he was, you've heard all that story about when he got murdered, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=517.0,537.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: boring. I haven't. I haven't heard it at all, and I don't believe it's on any of these tapes. So shoot. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=538.0,542.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, you know, I was five, so mine is all hearsay, but a bunch of people from St John's went up in the Kaibab, honey, dear honey. There were three important families in St John's, the whitings, the Pattersons, plats, and they were the people that had money. And the whitings owned the Ford Agency, and the Pattersons owned the Chevrolet agency. So they were competitors, but all good Mormons. And there was a guy named John Keone who had married one of the Pattersons, and he and Rex. And Rex married into the whitings. His wife was a whiting in this part of the story. I don't know, so I'm not even going to repeat it, but anyway, there was bad blood between them. They went hunting. Him. And everybody went out, and they came back to camp, and he went there, and keono, who was the last one seen with him, said the last ice I was over here, and took him on a wild goose chase, and a day later, they found his body. He'd been shot, and John Keanu was charged with murder and killing. And they tried the case in Flagstaff, because it was in Coconino County. Elma was there going to school. She sat through the truck a lot of it. They subpoenaed dad to be a witness so he couldn't testify, and mom couldn't testify because they subpoenaed her so they couldn't listen, and eventually they convicted him a manslaughter and gave him probation. He never spent any time in jail, but it tore that town apart. I mean, it was, and you know, my dad, and with his position in the church, probably more so than his position as the superior court judge, was not going to let that happen. And he, he, he made them heal the wounds had gone their way, but mom never forgave anybody for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=543.0,683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, in a small town, that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=684.0,684.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a Yeah, it was tough. It was tough. And Keanu, he used to, yeah, I don't remember when, maybe 1820, years later, he committed suicide. Used the same gun he shot wrecks with, but he used to come. My mother loved to ride horses. She was born and raised on a horse, and he'd bring a saddle horse down two, three times a week in time up in the front for mom to use, mom and ride the damn horse. Eventually, I think she did, but, well, that's hard. Yeah, no, it was hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=685.0,726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You've already answered a lot of the questions that I had about growing up in St John's, but, but let me ask a few more, beginning with school. Did you attend both public school and Mormon school, or was it a Mormon no public","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=727.0,742.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: school, St John's, and I wasn't smart enough to know this till I got out of there, but St John's was segregated. They had a grade school for the Anglos and a grade school for the Mexicans, and we all went same high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=743.0,760.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Now, were these Mexicans, or were they Spanish","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=761.0,765.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Mexicans? To me, yeah, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=766.0,766.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: reason I ask is, I grew up in northern New Mexico, and there they were Spanish. They were descendants of the conquistadors, and they let you know that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=767.0,778.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, the people up there didn't let you know that maybe they, maybe they were, I mean, you know, but the public schools, and it's, I don't know what it's like up there, now, I had to find out. But like, the Catholics had their church school, the Mormons had their church school, and one day a week you had to go what they called seminary. And like, no good on the Catholic religion, but like they would do, you know, to go to learn what the Catholics are supposed to learn as little kid. But the schools were strictly, you know, divorce from the churches. They were, they were, and it was eight grades and four grades, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=779.0,827.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: one through eight and then, and then through 12, basically, and and was the high school segregated. I mean, the so you went to school together with we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=828.0,837.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: all went. Anybody want to go to high school, whichever one of those two grade schools they came out of, we all in same high school. Did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=838.0,845.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was there any intermingling between the Mexicans and the Anglos? To","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=846.0,850.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: some extent, but not a lot. As I remember when I was a kid going to grade school, Could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=851.0,855.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you, could you have dated a Mexican motion? Yeah, and that would have been all right. That","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=856.0,859.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: would have been all right, but I don't think, I think from either culture, you couldn't marry him. You weren't they weren't going to turn you into a Catholic, and we weren't going to turn the Catholics into Mormons.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=860.0,871.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were there many students who were, who were neither Catholic nor Mormon, very few,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=872.0,880.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: very few, I know, you know, I never thought about that, honest to God, it just never crossed my mind when I was up there. I mean to me, you know, when I think about it, you were, I'm sure there were, but you were either Mormon or you were Catholic. And they didn't have any other churches in that town. They didn't have Lutherans, or, you know, any. Anything and but I'm sure we did. We had a bunch of there's a little town up near McNary Lakeside called Vernon, and it's in Apache County, and those kids had to ride the bus to St John's to go to school. It's probably closer to go to Springerville, but they sent them to St John. And some of those kids I know were not Mormons. One of most of them were, but not all of them were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=881.0,929.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm assuming this was sort of before the days of gangs. I mean, they're certainly gangs now, but there were gangs back in the 50s, 60s too, but you had no problem with that sort of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=930.0,942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: problem with that. I mean, you got into fights with with people, or arguments or whatever. And, you know, I know one of the stories I always tell is going to grade school, and I don't remember them doing it in high school, but going to grade school, when school started, they brought from Phoenix a dentist and an eye doctor, and everybody had to go and get their teeth checked and their eyes checked. And the dentist would move into somebody's house and fill teeth and do all of that stuff. And the eye guy would, you know, write prescriptions or do whatever the hell they did to get people glasses. I remember, I think I was in the fourth grade, this girl, I can't remember her name from Vernon, and she came just probably a month into school, and why I remembered it, but she said, Teacher, glasses are wonderful when you're riding the bus from burning those big brown blobs you see they're cows. And I don't know why that always stuck in my mind, but it did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=943.0,1018.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: going back to you being the youngest of six children, I know for me going to school, I it was hard following my sister, who was very popular and a good student, was a little easier following my brother, who was not such a good student, but I did always feel a little like I was In their shadow. Did that happen to you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1019.0,1041.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: pretty much, particularly in high school. I mean, I got it thrown at me all the time. You know, Eloise was a good student. Morris was most of those teachers had been there, you know, forever, like when I just came in the war. She was a thank God from St John's. But you know, most of them. They knew everybody. They knew all the families. They knew the whole thing. And yeah, you didn't do the work right, or whatever. You know, they threw it at you and But mom never threw it. Her dad never threw that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1042.0,1073.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And you had the double whammy of having a sister teaching there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1074.0,1076.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I got straight fours from her. I made straight on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1077.0,1084.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that. Oh, okay, fours in the days when fourth grade,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1085.0,1088.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: five was the worst grades you could get. And I used to, I've made, you know, 90 nines and a hundreds on all of her tests. I used to babysit her damn daughter so she could go do things. And I used to grass at her, and she always said, you can do better.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1089.0,1105.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So she gave you a four, which was essentially a D, right? So you haven't Spanish, as in your favorite subject. Self, very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1106.0,1115.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: good. Yeah, I'll tell you one more story about me in high school. The guy's name was LP Sherwood, and he was the, what they called the science teacher, and he taught math and chemistry and all that sort of stuff. And he was a, oh, he was kind of like Ichabod Crane. He was about six foot, two and 160 570 strong as a damn ox. And if somebody got out of a boy got out of line in school at noon, they had to wrestle brother Sherwood. He never lost a wrestling match in his life. I mean, he didn't beat on him. And, you know, then they went home and really got it from their parents. But the story I tell, whose story is about me and him, in late September, early October, all the ranchers shipped their cattle, and during the war, they didn't have any help, and every able bodied man was in the service up there, so they pulled their kids out of school. Didn't they care how old they were? If they get on a horse and they help round them up and get them there, they pulled them out. And Sherwood just raised help. He raised hell with the kids. He raised hell with the parents going to school. Was more. Important than shipping the cattle, and by God, they shouldn't be out of school for a week or 10 days, whatever it took. I was in charge of the hay bale St John's during the war because of what I said, there weren't enough people went to communism. It's the only way they could make that farm in town work. You were a designated irrigator. You were designated, I was, my job was, I ran the hay baler, and they could bale hay without me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1116.0,1227.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And that was your job. For whom? For everybody up there, really, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1228.0,1233.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and LB Sherwood was the only farmer there. I mean, everybody had a farm who didn't Bailey's hay when you cut it most, most time. Well we well, when I started bale hay when I was five or six, and I was poking wires, it was all with a stationary baler. But by now, they had balers that would go down the row and pick up the hay and it comes through, and you bail it, and the bale comes out and falls on the ground, like you see. Now, he wouldn't do that. He stacked his head in his barn, and it rained and it got moldy and all this stuff. Towards the end of November, he would pull me out of school for two days to bail his hay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1234.0,1281.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I Isn't that interesting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1282.0,1283.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And I used to say to him, brother Sherwood, what's the difference between this and shipping cattle? And he said,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1284.0,1290.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1291.0,1291.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: said, It's my A that was his answer to that. And the other story I tell about he and I during the war, probably all over but up there, mathematics and science was a big thing, and Sherwood had went to Flagstaff, got a degree, but we took a bunch of courses he'd never had that he'd never taken in College, so he was doing it along with us. He'd stay about two or three assignments ahead of you, and we got to this problem, and nobody could do it. He couldn't do it. There were five of us in the client, and we spent a whole day, and the answer was in the back of the book, but nobody could come up with the right formula. And he said, We got to go on one of these days, you'll either be milking a cow or chopping the wood. The answer will come to you, be sure and write it down, bring it to class. And about three weeks later, I was chopping wood, honestly, and I can remember running up to the house which one depart, and writing down the formula. And I took it the next day to class, and he looked at it, and he said, Well, it's the right answer, and I don't like your formula. And he gave me a four. And I was not happy I had done well. And I think, although mom never told me, she went and talked to him, maybe dad did, but I think mom did. And then probably seven years later, I was at a football game. I was a student. I was at the football game coming down the ramp at the U of A and I ran into him, iber had brother Sherman, said, You know, I've been thinking about that. Course, he said, I shouldn't have given you the four. That is too late. It's not going to help him. This was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1292.0,1419.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: many years later, as many years later. Yeah, funny how those things happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1420.0,1424.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1425.0,1428.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So they did the girls do any work on the farm at all? No, none at all. Okay, and you did have some tractors and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1429.0,1437.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: mechanization, yeah, by the time you get to the late 30s, early 40s, then they start to get tractors. And by the time 4243 when I'm starting to run the hay baler, they had a tractor that pulled all that, but you still had lots of horses. I remember when I was about eight, we were bringing hay in from the farm to the barn to feed the cows. And Stewart, I'm on the top of the I mean, it's stack day, it's not bale day, and I'm on the top of the damn thing. And Stewart doing what Stuart always did, and that they run away, and we're coming down a little hill out there, and he hollers at me, jump. He just dug in the hay, and I jumped. There was only one paved road, and I hit that thing, you know, and I got scrapes and scars, and the tongue of the wagon broke, and the horses went this way, and the wagon went in. To this guy's fans, and I'm getting up, shaking my head, and he always at me, why did you jump? Like I won't kill you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1438.0,1514.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about how about play? Besides mowing and what did you do for fun?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1515.0,1524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, we played poker. I played poker. We played that fan basically, I mean off and on. They had decent football teams, but basically everybody played basketball. We played some baseball, but it was mostly work. I mean, but time you got up and did all the chores and went to work on the farm or went to school and came back and did them all over again, there wasn't a lot of much time to do. We all read, you know, I I still read a lot. I enjoy reading, but there wasn't a lot of, I mean, the church, you know, had the activities on Tuesday that you could go to the high school when school was out, it was closed on the weekend, they had some dances and stuff. But as far as you know, like kids today go bulin Or do this, or do that, we didn't do that. I know you know one other story I'll tell you. But my girlfriend, who was also a cousin, she wanted this back in gas racing. She wanted to bowl. The nearest Bowling Alley was Flagstaff. She and I went Flagstaff so she could bowl.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1525.0,1615.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But that was a hardship for you in those days. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1616.0,1618.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not really. I mean, and dad was mad with good reason, because he didn't have any gas. He had to walk. I'd use all this gas up going to globe, I mean, going to Flagstaff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1619.0,1634.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you swim at all? Was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1635.0,1636.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: some? Yeah, you know, we bathe every Saturday, whether we needed to or not, and Balan hay was dirty, still is dirty. So there were three places in town that you could swim. You could swim at the city reservoir, which was where the drinking water and the irrigating water came from south of St John's little town called salao on the way to Springerville. And it had some the Little Colorado River. And it had kind of a spring with a deep well you could swim there. And then kind of north and west the town was a place called the meadows that you could swim in. But, I mean, I, I dog paddle, I don't swim. And I swim when my eyes closed, because up there, all you saw was dirt. There was no reason to open your eyes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1637.0,1693.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You know, backing up a little you mentioning the the bay, the hill Bay, hay that that was, was your thing to do for the community? What? What were Mo's and Stewart's things to do? They were gone. Oh, they were gone. Then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1694.0,1709.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that's my wife always says when she sees Stuart, tell bird to quit telling these stories. They're not true. And Stuart says, I don't know any more than you do. He's the only one that was there, and it's true, the only one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1710.0,1727.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: we were talking earlier, too, speaking of bathing them, you showed me that article that I gather you did, as many big families do, and shared the bathwater,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1728.0,1737.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: right? Exactly. And, you know, we didn't. I was up there with some people two years ago that played golf, and we played a Concho, and I said, you're stuck. You're gonna have to go St John's, and I'll show you the team. But we had running water, but not hot water. We didn't have a hot water heater. So every Saturday, Monday was washed. It Monday mom washed. Every Saturday, we had a bathtub. It's not like the story says, but there was a bathtub. We had indoor plumbing after I was six, but you'd take a big tub, fill it up with water, put it on the kitchen stove till it got hotter. Now, then you put it in the bathtub, and all the women bathed first. Till I was eight, I bathed with all the women. I learned lots. It, and then when they got through, you let the water out. And then by that time, hopefully the next tub of water was ready, and all the man made. And that's what happened. That's what George is saying in that story. And it's true. I mean, what's what's wrong with this story is one, it was Thanksgiving time. Wasn't Christmas, and Morris was a freshman at the University. That's why I asked you. So I'm sure it was 1939 and George, you know, and a guy named Tim Ballantine came up. Dad was here at Holden court, and so they were going to come up and spend Thanksgiving with us. And they got St John's about 11 at night, and they turned the power off, and you come from Concho, and there's a big hill, and you come down, and they come over the hill, and Morris says, you know there's St John's. And they said, where is it? I mean, there's no light. There ain't nothing. It's dark, nothing. That tells you there's a tan there. So that Saturday, Mom was going to be nice to the visitors and let them bathe first, and George did what they said, they let the water out. So we just waited another week, and then we bathed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1738.0,1876.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This was an article in the paper. Was it today's paper, oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1877.0,1879.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Sunday the 12th, or whenever. I'll","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1880.0,1882.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: try to cut it out and add it, add it to the tape for the transcript. Now, camping, hiking and fishing. We talked about some of that before. Do you do recall doing much of that? Or Stuart or Moe doing much of it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1883.0,1897.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart always talks about, I never heard Morris talk much about it. Stuart always talked about going with Rex Lee and in camping and fishing and hunting. I don't ever remember the only, the only thing I remember Julie and remember two things excellent, probably about 1937 1938 all of us, all eight of us, went up to sheep's crossing, which is up on the Little Colorado in past career. Yeah, right near there. And we were there two nights and three days, and we fished and camped and did all this stuff. I know Stewart and I were fish. I hate fishing. I don't have the patience. I'm not a good fisherman, but Stewart liked it. And we started going towards Mount Baldy and the streams getting lower. And finally, he said, Let's just walk up it. And so we did. We walked to the top and came back. Yeah. How old were you then? I think I was eight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1898.0,1964.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You went to the top of Mount Baldy at eight. Good for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1965.0,1970.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: But other than that, I don't remember. I mean, we didn't. It was the nature of what was up there in what the economics were. We didn't vacation a lot. I know we went. One year we went to Carlsbad cavern in New Mexico. I remember doing that one year we went to the Rose Bowl. I think that was New Year's Day, 1940 and I tell this story, and everybody says I'm wrong, so I probably am, but when we went to the Carlsbad, I'm almost sure it was Morris didn't wanna go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=1971.0,2008.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He wasn't gonna go, and Dad would have none of that. So he took all the suitcases out of the trunk and put him in the trunk,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2009.0,2019.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and we drove about 10 miles, and then he let him out. He still wasn't gonna go. He went. That's interesting. Oh, but it wasn't a bunch, you know, like, I tell somebody the other day they I was showing them that story. I think when I was nine or 10, maybe 11, dad went to Clifton to hold court, and took me with him, and we got there late. My dad. I mean, Dad always said we're leaving at two, no later than four. I mean, he never left on time, so it was dark when we got there, and we stayed in some funny old hotel, and we got up the next morning, and I remember this, but you know, I go to the bathroom, and here's a tub, and this thing up above the tub, and I said to my father, what is that? He said, It's a shower. That's first time I ever saw a share. And I must take in 10 shares a day. That was the neatest thing. You'd say, sliced bread.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2020.0,2089.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: One of the reasons I asked about the hunting and fishing. I mean, I know you live close to close to the White Mountains in Greer, which is some incredible country and all. Yeah. Um, both, both Stuart and Morris, of course, became known over the years as environmentalists and avid environmentalists and conservationists and and I'm kind of wondering what the basis of that was, whether it sounds like they didn't spend a great deal of time outdoors as kids, other than on the farm. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2090.0,2120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't, you know, I'm that way, not and dad was that way, and that whole town was that way. Stuart, you know, going backwards. Dad had, in the early 30s, late 20s, was involved, kind of in a ranch. He had an investment, and Stewart spent a lot of time one summer being a cowboy. I know that because he talked about it. I'm sure that's where I was born. But it was the conservation of the land that is fierce land up there. It is not good growing land, and so to conserve. It was, you know, more a town commitment than a personal commitment. And I think that's where it all came from. Was just the when the Mormons went there, Grandpa came in, 1880 of him, right? And the Mormon battalion went through, the people, the scouts, and it was the one year ever that there was water and grass up there. And they said, this be a great place for a tan. And never happened","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2121.0,2189.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: again. Never happened","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2190.0,2192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: again. I mean, start this, this. I was digging around all this. Dirk wrote this story I was going to show you this is,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2193.0,2200.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: this is a story. And what is this? American West magazine, May, June, 1982 the article on St John's Arizona, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2201.0,2212.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And what he's talking about in the article is basically conservation. And, you know, I did it this morning recycling. We never, ever threw anything away up there. I mean, the glass got reused. Cans got reused. Bottles got reused. You wash","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2213.0,2230.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: your wash your aluminum foil, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2231.0,2232.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they didn't have and start. He sent me that because, boy, I'd love to get a copy of that if I could. But I was talking about, see that to me milking,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2233.0,2247.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the picture of you milking. And who is that with you? Well, starts,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2248.0,2252.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: start wrong. I was talking about in this is oldest daughter. Is named Louise, and she's a little girl standing that you can see, okay? And what you would do is you'd, you took little people and, you know, you'd milk it into a bucket, and then you just open her mouth and squirt the milk into their mouth that, I mean, you did that all your life. Stuart says In the article, you know that the person kneeling down, you guys see a form, yeah, is in us. It's actually mom. Oh, really, yeah, if you ever see really, that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2253.0,2289.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: hard to, hard to tell from this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2290.0,2294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And then this is, this is Morris, cutting Stewart's hair Mars, pretty good Barber.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2295.0,2304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Now, he did that in college, as I recall he did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2305.0,2306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but he did it up there that I know that that hair cutting day I was home, I'd finished basic training with the army, and I was home on my way to the Philippines, and it's the day that Eloise got married, when that picture was taken,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2307.0,2332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: just the haircuts, yeah, for the wedding. Well, I would, I would love a copy of this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2333.0,2337.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but why don't you take it with him? You can send it back to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2338.0,2339.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sounds good. I'll do that. Speaking of play, I have to ask about pranks and mischief. I mean, what I know of the Udall boys? I doubt that they were above such they were. And I wondered if you remembered any such incidents. If don't, if not, I have a couple I might","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2340.0,2360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not really, you know, certainly not me and my brothers doing it, Morris and Stewart. I mean, you know, it doesn't offend me, but I'll tell you, I think I was 50 years old when Morris ever cared what I thought. He never asked me, Stuart always did, but Morris never did. And they did a lot of things together, but I never did with them. I mean, my friends and me, we did a bunch of stuff you shouldn't do, but rotten egg to people. And things like that, steel chickens. And, you know, Dad's probably heard this Jimmy, but dad, you know, was the judge, which maybe everybody's judge, including the juvenile judge. And the way he handled juvenile problems is slavery, you did something wrong. I did something wrong. Two o'clock Sunday afternoon, he held juvenile court at our house, and anybody who felt that some kid had done something they shouldn't have done came down and told Adam and dad would send the word out. Get bill down here, get Sam down here. And you never got a trial and you ever got a hearing? I mean, whatever the adults said was true, and you could say I didn't do it, I was out of 10, or whatever that had nothing to do with it. You were guilty","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2361.0,2449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: by virtue of being a child, exactly so,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2450.0,2451.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: depending on what you did, your sentence was to work for that person for a period of time. Yeah, I know. You know, we went swimming once, and up there during the war, you never went any, I don't remember any going anyplace, hay hook and wire cutters. I mean, they were essential to do what we did. And we went up to Salado swimming, which was part of the plat ranch, and somebody had left the gate open before us, and a couple of his cows got in, and he was man, so he put a bunch of tacks and nails about 50 feet down the road, and we draw, and we got four flat tires, and we're man are now, and we get out and Cut about 200 feet of fence. Our sentence was to build him five and a half miles of hence, that's hard work. Yeah, so, and it worked. I mean, you know, you did all those things. You worked all day, and then you had to go report to him. And it was if it took you two months to get it done, that was fine. If it took three months, that was fine. If it took a week, that was fine, but you were going to do it. And, you know, Morris and the sheriff's kid, when they get charged with kidnapping, whatever, I mean, oh, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2452.0,2533.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: tell me that story. That's one of the ones I've heard about. Let's how are we on tape here? We may have enough for that story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2534.0,2541.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, they, I can't tell you what the year it was even and you know what I know is what I've been told. But they tore down the Mormon church and rebuild it in its present location, which was the same as before, and they held church in high school, which right next door. Probably can't do that in this day and age, but they did. And this guy had a old model team didn't have a starter, and there's a little hill, so we parked it on the hill. So when he got in it, he'd just and they're out doing things. And they knew everybody knew this, so they decided they'd take a ride. So they drive along, and it's about time to get the car back. As church about over, and they don't want anybody know he's taking it. And coming through the middle of town was the city ditch, and there was a bunch of bridges, and Morris missed the bridge and put the car in the ditch, and a two and a half year old baby woke up and started crying in the back seat. That's the first time they knew they had anybody. So Morris ran over to the nearest house where somebody was there and reported there was a car in the ditch and a baby crying and left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2542.0,2616.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Obviously he didn't get away with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2617.0,2620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so the next morning, which would have been Monday, which wasn't dad's juvenile court day, he was down, and he wanted them charged with kidnapping. And dad didn't think it was that serious, but their sentence, as I remember, it was 14 months each, so they had to give him an hour a day minimum, every day but Sunday and his house and yard and corrals and fences went from the worst in town to the best.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2621.0,2652.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, did this come out of their chore time at home, or they had to squeeze this in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2653.0,2656.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: That was extra. That was extra well","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2657.0,2660.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: before I tell you about the other I heard about, I think I will switch tapes here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336#t=2661.0,2663.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270336/transcript/78713/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/713/original/azu_ms396-046_side2_a.vtt?1745252810","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/713/original/azu_ms396-046_side2_a.vtt?1745252810"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 5 - azu_ms396-047_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2734.512,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/337/original/azu_ms396-047_side1_a.mp3?1744847947","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2734.512,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Number 28 with bur Utah, another little mischief thing, story I once heard about, and you can it may be pure, malicious hogwash in which you can tell me that, but I understand there was someone in St John's who would give you an ice cream cone if you brought in a bale of hay to feed his dairy cows, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=0.0,22.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, that's true. You have to go there, and you've been there so you know. But the Elma hotel, grandpa's house, is on one corner, and the corner to the north is the High School, which is something or other. Just west of the high school was the tithing barn. Good Mormons who tied 10% didn't have the money. You give it to them in kind, and part of it was Hey. Then just to the west of the Elm Hotel, which would be just south of the tithing barn, was Brother Farr, and he had a little gas station in this door, and like everybody else, had cows and stuff. So you'd go to the tithing barn, take a bale of the church's hay, walk it across the street, usually two people, like I said before, you always had a hay hook. And you You delivered, actually, the way I remember, for a bale of hay, you got a quarter ice cream. Wasn't just a comb, but maybe it's a pint, but it was enough for two of you to enjoy. But the hay was coming from the church. He knew it. He knew where the LA was coming from.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=23.0,97.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you ever get caught with that? No, no. I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=98.0,100.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: sure everybody in town knew it, but nobody ever complained.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=101.0,110.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Growing up. Did you feel particularly close to any of your siblings? I know you fought with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=111.0,117.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I probably felt closer to Eloise than I did anybody else. Highness, you know, was pretty much gone until she came back teach high school, and Elma was pretty much gone. And by the time, you know, I'm 1011 where I'm supposed to remember things and things Morrison Stewart are both gone. Stewart's, I think, left in 37 probably to go to college, then went on a mission. Morris, left in 39 to come to the university. Then the war came, then they're gone. And by the time they're coming back to the moor, I'm going in the army, and I'm gone. Then later, you know, after I became somebody that you could talk to, I guess, why i i became good friends with all my brothers and sisters. One that, one of the stories I tell Julie is actually when Highness died a few years ago, Stuart and bunch of people spoke at her funeral. But when can't remember the guy's name, guy from St John's, he came to me. They didn't come to me. I just ran into him, we're talking and he said, in 1958 so I'd been lawyer for years. And he went, he saw Dad someplace, and he said, you know Levi or brother, Udall, whatever he called him, who's the best lawyer, Morris or Stewart, he said neither one Bert. He said, Your dad ever tell you that? And I said, No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=118.0,228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, you certainly, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=229.0,230.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: mean, Dad was, he never played any favorites, and he was very straightforward about that stuff. So if he said it, I'm sure he meant it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=231.0,238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well for what it's worth, I worked at the court of appeals for Judge Livermore for 10 years, and your reputation over there is the absolutely best appellate advocate that they ever have. How about your parents? Did either one of them particularly influence you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=239.0,262.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: You know, I told this story. And like, you know, I tell stories, so I have to tell it, but since I've been married, I don't think I've ever said anything that my wife didn't correct me on I mean, it's automatic, and I'm used to it didn't bother me in years. 20 years ago, whatever, we went someplace and went to very fancy we were in the Virgin Islands, and it's a long story, I won't bore you with, but we're sitting there with this guy who's a park guard with a third grade education in Canal Bay. Is a real fancy resort to have lunch. And I said, this is a nice table. And she said, that one's better, okay? And he looks and he talks with that British accent, and I can do it. And he said, You're the head of the hassle. The man is always the head of the hassle. He said, the thing that people forgets the woman's the neck, and the neck turns the head. He said, most of the time, the neck turns the head, so slowly, the head does not know it's being turned. Said, in your case, that doesn't seem to apply. Well, I've used that anytime I make a speech to legal secretaries or whatever. I use that story because it's true. They're into things, but that's when I got thinking about it that was always true in our family. We always did or what dad thought we wanted to do, but was always what mom wanted dad to do, and she very quietly, got it done in her way. Probably the biggest influence of the two of them was mom. And I think that's just the nature of the beast of a family. You're with your mother a hell of a lot more than you are your father. I mean, I think it's true of my daughter. I think, you know, I think they like me, they respect me, but the one who really gets the credit for the way they are is Alice, not me. I, although I claim it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=263.0,390.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: when they're good, right? Yeah, Mom","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=391.0,395.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was more of, you know, Dad would kind of follow up when you weren't doing your homework or you weren't doing the chores, right? You heard from mom and dad would kind of, yeah, do this, you know. But really, the driving force to get it done all the time was mom,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=396.0,411.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but was he the ultimate Enforcer? Oh","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=412.0,414.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, oh yeah. His rule was, you know, if you had it coming, you got a weapon, and his role was, you can run to make any difference. You were going to get it sooner or later. And he always argued that up to 10 feet, he was the fastest one in the family, and I still got the barbed wire marks on my legs from running away from him and trying to jump that barbed wire fence and hit. Now,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=415.0,442.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was this for corporal punishment that you were running? So that did happen occasionally, to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=443.0,447.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: happen on occasion, but it wasn't an everyday affair by any stretch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=448.0,452.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is, this is somewhat off, off the subject. Well, no, let me back up a little bit, speaking of family life in in St John's, did you celebrate holidays? Fourth of July? Yeah, parade in town.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=453.0,473.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: They had a parade that actually, and I suspicion is still true today up there, the biggest day is the 24th of July. It's referred to as the Mormon Fourth of July. It's the day Brigham Young got to Salt Lake. Okay? So that's when they have a parade and do all that stuff. The Fourth of July, you know, it's a holiday brother Overson the the midwife, would always north of where we lived. There's a big swamp down here, and he'd always about daybreak set off three or four sticks of dynamite. Everybody woke up the Fourth of July was here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=474.0,519.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about Halloween?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=520.0,524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't remember, you know, I don't remember Halloween being like it is now up there. I can't remember hardly at all anything about Halloween. I mean, Christmas, you know, was a big deal the 24th of July was when they had the rodeo and did all that sort of stuff. But and Thanksgiving was always a big holiday with us. But other other than than those three days, I don't think much like Labor Day and Memorial Day, they were regular working day, as far as I can remember. I mean, was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=525.0,562.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Christmas? Did you tend to spend that with the extended family, with aunts and uncles, or was it mostly just your mostly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=563.0,569.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: just our own family? There were, you know what? Mom's family was never there. I mean, mom's family was down the hill of Allen and my grandparents on that side were dead before I was born. I never met them. And her brothers and sisters, none of them lived close to us. Every now and again, one of her brothers come up to see us, and every now and again, we'd go to Thatcher and Sanford to visit but that didn't happen very often. Uh, but it wasn't. Maybe it just there's a damn many of us. Julie, it wasn't a big thing. Like everybody came back, all those Udalls came back from wherever they were to be with each other. I mean, we were there. Uncle Gibb was there, the grower was there. And kind of you met and talked, but it was no and you know, back in the good old days when I was going to church, and before grandpa and grandpa grandma died, they all met at his house to walk together to church at 10 o'clock. And I need to tell you one more Ovi over some stories. My one of my favorite Mormon story, they go in the morning and they have, you know, service and class and blah, blah, blah. And then at night, you go and, and it's usually about 45 minutes or so, but anybody can speak. So they meet. We all meet. And the bishop gets up, and they have the opening prayer, and he makes the announcements. Choir sings a song, and then he says, you know, our speaker tonight is Brother Ovi Orson, and I'm sure brother Obi has a very good message for us. And brother Obi gets up and comes down, and he said, brothers and sisters, I want you to know that this is the right church. And anybody doesn't belong to the Mormon church. He'd done the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints, but the Mormon church, you know, we need to help them and convert them. And I have a very good message for you tonight. He stood there for about 30 seconds, and he said, I forgot it. And walked over and said, Ann, and the bishop got up said, we'll have the closing prayer and we'll have brother Obi back a month or so when he forgets it, when he remembers his speech. Okay, so we're in and out of there in a flash, and I'm laying on the lawn outside the church, just roaring, and I am still remember my father kicking me in the ribs, saying, it's not funny. And I said, Dad, it is funny. What do you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=570.0,738.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Hold up. Let's see. Okay, let me ask you about Barry Goldwater briefly. How did your family become acquainted with him? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=739.0,752.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the story is, and I think it is true, that grandpa David King Udall was charged with and convicted of perjury way back when, and Arizona was the territory, and the court was in Prescott, and he went there, and Barry Goldwater's father went his bond. So that's where it all started. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=753.0,783.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: how did you, how did, how did Barry become acquainted with the family? I mean, you just all stayed in touch. Basically, yeah, true, Dan. And did he ever visit you in St John's? Or, I never remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=784.0,797.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: seeing him in st John Yeah. I mean, the one person that you know, I never forgot, and I don't know if you've heard this story, and it has to do with dad, more than anybody else, but dad ran in 1946 and got elected to the Supreme Court back for the appointed people. And there was a guy in the Supreme Court named Ross who was going to retire, who had said, the person who should replace me is Levi you don't so dad had saved his money. And there was a year, my senior year in high school, where I lived by myself for probably seven of the nine months, because he and mom were out, he'd go to ever County, they'd ask him to come. The judges liked him, and he'd old court and go to Kiwanis and walk up and down shaking and said, do all this stuff. And Ross died unexpectedly, and one Sunday, they're at church and I'm inside, not playing basketball like my mother told me. And the highway patrol car drives up, and I go out, and this highway patrolman said this, Judge, you don't live here. And I said, Yes. And is he here? No, he's in church. Where's the church? And I said, right there. He'll be home about 30 minutes. He'll come on in and wait. And it was the governor was, said Osborne, who was, forgot what he had, MS, or something, he was in the wheelchair. And he said, Well, I go talk to the governor. And he came back, and he said, No, the governor does soon wait in the car. And so after a while, here they come, mom and dad. And, you know, I. Yeah, the governor sees that, and obviously said to the highway patrolman, he's the guy. And so anyway, and they come, they come in the house, and we're we have lunch. Mom makes lunch. And I still remember, because it seems so stupid to me, the highway patrolman wouldn't come in and he which offended mom. I mean, you know the governor's no better than you are. Get the hell in here, but he wouldn't do it. So we got all through having lunch, and dad said, Governor, why are you here? And he said, Well, I'm sure you knew judge Ross died. Dad said yes, and he said, When I ran for election in 44 my campaign manager was Joe Morgan, who was a lawyer in Prescott, and I told Joe, if there was any vacancy on the Supreme Court while I was the governor, I would appoint him, and I'm going to appoint him now. Why the hell he didn't call dad on the phone and tell him that is one of the I always thought it was just the respect he had for dad, but I don't know that. And Dad said, Well, you know, Governor, it's a long trip if he needs to hear just tell me that. And he said, I understand politics, and I think you're you've got to, if you give somebody your word, you're gonna follow through with it, and I don't blame you at all. He said, Just do me one favor when you see Morgan, tell him I'm gonna beat him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=798.0,993.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And he did. So he really did drive up there just to tell him that. Wow. So you you moved to Phoenix after your father was elected. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=994.0,1005.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: never moved to Phoenix. Oh, you didn't. No, I did the see dad ran in 46 and and it's a sign of the times. He ran statewide. His total budget was $4,800 he had saved 2500 he got 2500 from the plats and the whitings and a few lawyers, and it cost him $200 less, and he rebated the 200 based on, not to himself, but based on what people put in. So I get a high school in early June of 46 and Morrison sturderback, and they're running that campaign. They're helping, right? And I go in the army. I went in the Army late, late June, and dad gets elected, and mom and dad moved to Phoenix in early 47 and I get out of the service, and I come here to go to school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1006.0,1075.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you bypass Phoenix entirely, right? My experience","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1076.0,1079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: with Phoenix was I got here early December, when I got out of the service, and I went to Phoenix, and then I came down here, and I tell stories about that. And then so I lived there about a month, and then I came back to start school mid year, in January. And that, that was the semester I lived in the dorm, and my first roommate was Jim McNally, oh, is that right? Small world. And we lived together about two months, and then I moved down the hall with a cousin, but then I went home. Our school got out, and I went home, and I was going to work, and I couldn't work. I could hardly walk with my back. So I ended up having surgery, and then I got the job at the infirmary. And because of the surgery and in fact, I couldn't work. I kept going to summer school. I was trying to get out of there as quick as I could. So I never really lived. I mean, when I had the surgery, I was at home for about a month, but the folks were gone. Mom and Dad were gone. Elma took care of me, basically. So I never did live in Phoenix much. It didn't have much to do with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1080.0,1160.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So when they moved to Phoenix, pretty much all the kids were we were all about gone. Yeah, did your mother suffer empty nest syndrome? I think,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1161.0,1170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think she missed St John's. I know dad did. And in, you know when one of the stories I tell when dad left St John's, everybody up there, all the good Mormons said, Brother, you don't want to die. Will you come back and speak at my funeral? Yes. Okay. What he should have had, which they didn't have, was a videotape, because what he did was this, what I found in these files every. Thing was an illegal file, and he had a file entitled funeral speeches, stock like jury instruction. And you'd open it and it would say, we are here, because the name would be crossed out, whoever died, who was born, new date, who died new date, and then it went off. It's about three pages, four pages. And then he had a file called funeral speeches special, and that was for people that he really cared about. And part of, part of the stock speech was in the special speech, but the special speech wasn't in the stock speech. Wasn't in the stock speech. So I said to you, when I just died, when the people that spoke at her funeral was Stuart. He started out by saying, We are here because and then he paused and he said, Burr, this is a special speech. I said, Okay, I laughed. I didn't know when they laughed. Nobody else knew what the hell even talking about. But yeah, they missed it. Mom, I think, missed more her friends, you know, because she didn't have they didn't know. Neither one of them hardly knew anybody. Dad knew people in the legal world, but mom didn't. So mom probably missed it more than dad did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1171.0,1288.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What did she do in Phoenix?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1289.0,1290.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, she was, mom was a move. We learned dealers, a mover and a shaker. More accurately, she got involved with the church right away, will release society. She did a lot of work with the Indians. She went to those reservations out there. She was, she's a great quilter. Those Those women, you know, in St John's, they all quilted like, I mean, I keep hearing the way people women gossip is playing bridge. Those people quilt it and gossip, you know. But so she got all that organized, and she she loved the square dance and they used to. She got them into a couple of places where you could square dance clubs and stuff. Dad would go, because she wanted him to go. But I don't think he was that hot about it. Maybe he was. And then, through the the Indian stuff, she met Helen CK Guate, the lady, she wrote the book. And so they then started to spend more and more time in the reservation, at least mom did. Dad didn't feel like he could with the court, and they go back to the to the White Mountains, the Supreme Court used to go on recess early in July and come back to labor day they took a two month vacation. Or supposedly, dad did. Dad was up there writing opinions, but most of the other judges weren't. And mom, like I said before, loved the horse back, right? And she always had a horse, and she'd arranged to get a horse in Phoenix. And, you know, she, and I think this was in the early 40s, Dad bought her a horse. She's very proud of great horse. The horse threw her, and she wouldn't tell dad for five weeks, because she's afraid he'd take the horse away, beat on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1291.0,1412.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: She didn't ride back to oh no, but she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1413.0,1416.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: she'd ride around St John's, take that horse and go 18 miles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1417.0,1421.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, did she and Helen sakaka drive together back and forth from a reservation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1422.0,1426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, see, Helen would come down in the fall to get her kids in school, and she'd be there until school was out. So most of it was done there. You know, I can just remember being there a couple of times and mom telling me they went to or I be because Helen and her husband family lived on a ranch about 15 miles at a time. They went to the trading post to get something. And the trader said to Helen, what, what are you and this woman doing, I'm sure, in Hopi? And Helen said, I'm talking, and she's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1427.0,1476.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, that's a wonderful, wonderful book. Now, when did you get married? I got","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1477.0,1483.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: married in 55 got out of law school. In 54","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1484.0,1488.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: got married right afterwards,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1489.0,1489.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: got married a year later,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1490.0,1492.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and and this was to Alice. And where did you to meet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1493.0,1497.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I. I met her. I didn't know her. I met her when we were both students at the university, and actually kind of got to know her the summer school before I graduated mid year. I graduated in January, because at summer school in the summer of 53 there was a lawyer. He's dead now, named Keith Benton. And I lived together because the infirmary was closed during the summer. I couldn't live over there and work. And he was dating Alice, and that's kind of where I met her. And then when I got out of school in January, she got out of school that spring, in the courthouse, everything was right there in that dome thing, the jail, the county. I mean, there was nothing. And she was a juvenile probation officer that she and I started to date, and that's when we kind of get to know each other. And she always tells the story, you know, that at some point I proposed to her. I deny that, but I guess I did, but she could never get me to commit. And finally, she said, When are we getting married? And I said, Why don't we do it in January? And she said, when I Coronavirus? I said about the middle of the month. So we got married the 15th. Dad married. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1498.0,1579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: is that right? Yeah, was that in Tucson? Was it a large wedding or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1580.0,1582.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh no, no, no, it was she, and it's this. These are stories about me that you don't need Julie, but she and three girls lived together in a house right over on Seneca, right by the Catalina theater, just west. Oh yeah. We got married in that house, and the deal was we went on the honeymoon, we came back. They'd move out, and we'd live in the house. So we maybe had 30 people at the wedding, not many more than her","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1583.0,1612.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: friends. Now, this was right across the street from the park","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1613.0,1616.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there. There's a school right there. There's a school just north of that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1617.0,1621.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: oh, on the other side of Catalina theater. Okay, yeah, Jefferson parks. Is that what it is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1622.0,1626.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So we got married, and then I know, well, I started as another story I'll tell you. But when I was going to law school, I was Morrison Stewart's Locklear. I did everything. I served subpoenas, I did research, I interviewed witnesses, you name it. And I was going to go work for the Christmas holiday, the infirmary closed, and I'm getting ready to take the bar exam January two and three, and I'm going to take finals 10 days later. So I talked to ms bocock, and she did something with the U of aid that I could stay there, even though it was closed. So I'm living down in the basement where we all live, and the phone rings, and my memory is it was two days after Christmas, and so I got to run up the stairs, and I picked the phone up. I said, Hello, and it was Morris, and he said, Stuart, and I've been talking, and we've decided we can't use you. We think you ought to start looking for a job up to land. I'd never even thought about looking forward you just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1627.0,1700.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: assumed you were going to Utah and Udall right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1701.0,1706.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And the next day, the boat rang, and I ran upstairs, and it was time, and he said, I hear you're looking for a job and we're looking for a lawyer, and I'm sure they had talked about it, but I don't know that for sure. So when I got out in January, actually, the end of January, I finished finals, and Elma and I drove up to San Francisco for 10 days, and then I went to work for him the 10th of February, for $200 a month. And I wasn't worth any part of it, but Alice was making almost 300 as a juvenile probation officer she was doing that's why I married her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1707.0,1747.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You married her for her money. Right now? How many kids have you had?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1748.0,1752.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Two, two girls. We set off to have sex and then two and 15 months and never had any more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1753.0,1759.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Learned the wisdom of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1760.0,1761.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: just the way mother nature did it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1762.0,1765.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I was just going to ask you about college. Now you what was your major in undergrad?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1766.0,1771.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, when I started, I was going to be an engineer, and I think I flunked out every college the university had I redo. I took a bunch of stuff,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1772.0,1782.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I'm about to get a degree in accounting in the Business College, and summer school ended, so it had to be 52 and I went to Phoenix for 10 days or so. And dad would always take me out to the court and stuff like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1783.0,1805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And he said, you know, how do you like it? I said, I hate it. I cannot envision of doing this all my life. And he said, Why don't you go to law school? And I said, Every damn Udo I know is a lawyer. I'm not going to be a lawyer. And he said, Why don't you go to law school? Just go for a semester. Can't hurt you. You might like it. So because of my Infirmary job, I had to be here eight days before classes started to open it up, and they used to physicals and all sorts of stupid things out there. So the old, old, old law school, it's on the main campus. I walked over there one day, and I walked into the dean's office, and I said to her secretary, I'd kind of like go to law school. And she said, give me $35 and you're in. That was it. I didn't have. Thank you. That's all that was involved. Nobody said, how are your grades or any of that? And at that time, it only took three years of undergrad work to get into law school. They changed it that year. The year before, it was two","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1806.0,1872.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: years. Okay, so you had gone to undergrad three years and just basically moved over to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1873.0,1880.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the moved over to law school, and then I, I discovered I liked it. I just thought I could do it. And so the units my first semester of law school became electives, and I got a degree in accounting the end of that year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1881.0,1895.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, I noticed you had you graduated with a BS, yeah. So I wondered what that was. Now, were you involved in any sports in college? No. So you besides missing the political gene, you missed the sports, basketball. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1896.0,1910.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: didn't miss that gene. I got out of the Army, as I told you, and I came here, and, you know, it's January, and I went out for freshman basketball. I couldn't run because of the back, oh, because of the surgery. So, and after the surgery, I couldn't do anything. No story I always tell is, how was it? It's 4645 I Stewart is one of the starting guards in the University of Arizona basketball team. Morrison started to play yet, or if he had, he was a scrub, and Stewart came home for Thanksgiving. In Thanksgiving time in St John's, they always had a basketball game, and it was the Lee's versus the town, and I'm a smart aleck high school senior, and he's the big star at the U of A or, you know, said he was, and I said to him, you know, we're gonna find out. You play for the town and I'll play for the lease, and you guard me, and I'll guard you, and we'll see you the best basketball player. So we did. We played and he got four and I got 24 and I never let him forget it. He always says, you know, I was just the older brother, letting letting you go easy. Yeah. No, I was, I was actually, I thought, a very good basketball player, but once the back got where he got, I just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=1911.0,2006.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: didn't do anything. Yeah. Now, Mo was quite a star in college. He was student body president and he was captain of the basketball co captain of the basketball team. And did did that haunt you at all while you were in school with no, okay, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2007.0,2026.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: really didn't you know he was, he's about the only person I knew that was going to college who was banking money me and the GI Bill. He was the student body president. Paid him money. He had the basketball scholarship. He's cutting hair. I mean, honest, he's he's doing pretty well financially in that era. And as it worked out, see, I came in January and he left in September to go to Denver. So there was only that short the January through June that he and I were in school together. And I mean people still today, Julie know me lot up back then, in particular, that job at the infirmary at noon, they had a blue cart, and you pushed it up to the student union, or the comments, to get the food for the patients, and then you did it at 530 and most people knew me as the person who pushed that blue cart. They had no idea what my name was. They just they'd see me and they'd say blue. Hard and so and Morris, I'm sure, did it before I got there, but I remember, I was taking a course in chemistry, and this girl was all over me, and I'm thinking, gee, you know, nobody's ever done this. And we're we come out, and we're walking down the street, and Morris walks by, and he says hello to her, and we went where we went, and she went her way, and I went my way, and then I went to find Morris, and I said, Who the hell is she? And he said, she's our first cousin from Sanford. Well, she knew it, and I didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2027.0,2141.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2142.0,2146.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: by the time you grab the year you graduated from college, in 1952 was that Mo was already, he'd been out in private practice and was county attorney. Okay. Did you work on that campaign at all? No, when he ran,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2147.0,2173.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was he county attorney that quick?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2174.0,2175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, yeah. He was county attorney very quickly. He had been, he had been assistant county attorney for only a couple of years, and then ran for county attorney.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2176.0,2187.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I know when I started to practice, he was the county attorney. I know I remember that, but I didn't realize he'd been, I'm not arguing with you. Yeah, I'm sure that's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2188.0,2199.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I can check I it always struck me as pretty fast, too. But maybe we can.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2200.0,2204.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think he got elected in, no, I don't mean that he got admitted in 48 I think I've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2205.0,2214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: got 52 at age 30 elected county","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2215.0,2216.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: attorney. That makes sense. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2217.0,2220.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And in 54 you got your law degree and were admitted to practice. That same year, Stewart ran for Congress. I understand that Moe initially considered running for that seat, but decided to back out and defer to Stewart. Do you know why he made that decision at all? I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2221.0,2243.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Dad","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2244.0,2244.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: is that right? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2245.0,2247.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think they were internally fighting with each other. Morrison Stewart, and I think Dad came down and said to him, Stuart's the older and he's got more experience, and he's the one that I run, and you got to back up. Now, wouldn't you know, knowing the two of them, they would have, I mean, the only election dad ever lost in his life, his brother beat him. So he was used to having brothers running his brothers. What was that? What election in St John's, they ran for the clerk of the board of supervisor, and he lost it. He lost to his brothers. Okay, so he had an inkling of that would work. Well, I always wondered. I always wondered about that. Do you think that caused any problems between I really don't. You know. I think they were, they are their own people, but I think they respected each other always. That was never a problem. And I think Stuart at that time, was probably bet a better politician than Morris was. I mean, Stuart was very good at the ground roots stuff. He was good at knocking on doors and going to PTA meetings and the Kiwanis and all that stuff. Morris never did like that stuff much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2248.0,2325.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So he was a good candidate. Stuart Stewart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2326.0,2327.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was Yeah. Stewart was Yeah. They learned, I mean, the best politician in the family is dad. I mean, dad, he knew how politics were. They learned from him, and he was good at it. He was good at it. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2328.0,2343.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, sort of, more cerebral way, didn't get in the way of his being a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2344.0,2348.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no Stewart. I mean, he's, you know, he is too long winded. I'm too long winded, but thank God, I'm not long as Stewart. But he is very articulate, and unlike, well, like, I don't know, starting to have a sense of humor. I mean, he really does it a little bit, but, but Morris always had a great sense of humor. I think I have a good sense of humor. I mean, I laugh at myself and but starts always presented that serious, thoughtful, I you know, Einstein sort of appearance, and he can articulate it, and he's effective at it. He was an effective politician.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2349.0,2394.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you go ahead?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2395.0,2396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, I never got involved in the game. Think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2397.0,2399.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you didn't get involved in that either. Mo, did you stay in touch with him when he moved to Washington? Then after some did he ask your advice on any issues or consult you at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2400.0,2414.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all? He always thought I was an idiot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2415.0,2418.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is Stewart. Oh, this Morris. Oh, okay, I was talking about Stuart. Oh, did Stuart? Stuart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2419.0,2424.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: never, I mean, to a small extent. I mean, they both looked at me as is the younger brother who was still 10 years old. For a long time, they didn't think I knew much, and they're probably right. I mean, I'll never, ever forget when Kennedy was elected in early December. It's right down here, when the old Fox Theater was there. I ran into Stuart and I said, What are you doing? He said, I'm going to Washington tomorrow. I said, why? He said, I'm going to be the Secretary of the Interior. And I said, You're out of your goddamn mind. And he pulled me these be little alley, and he put it right in here, and he pulled me down here, and he said, let me explain politics to you. He said, I almost got myself beat in the election for the congressional election because of the work I did for John Kennedy. And I delivered more votes at the convention in Los Angeles for him than anybody west of the Mississippi. And the Secretary of the Interior comes from the west of the Mississippi. And John Kennedy is a political, political animal, and I'm going back and calling my cards. And I said, You're out of your mind. And two days later, picked up the paper. And he was right. He was the Secretary of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2425.0,2507.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Interior, so he went after the job, as opposed to Kennedy coming after him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2508.0,2513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I don't know whether Kennedy, you know, I never read enough of the Kennedy memoirs and stuff, whether or not, what Kennedy's version of that is, but I know that was Stuart, and what they talked to him before and said, you know, we really appreciate all your help. Is there something we can do for you, which is probably the way it worked. But he knew where he was going, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2514.0,2535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he went back and talked to them and said, This is what I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2536.0,2540.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And you've asked me what I want, and this is the job I want.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2541.0,2543.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Why do you think he chose interior? Probably, this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2544.0,2547.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: is interest in the outdoors and conservation. I mean, it had always been there. It had always been there in our family. And Stewart was, you know, a big pusher of it when he was in Congress. He he believed it, and he'd read a lot about it, and, you know, he'd seen a lot of it in action, like anybody in Arizona does, and I think he thought that was the one he was better qualified for. And I think he knew that Bobby Kennedy was going to be the Attorney General,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2548.0,2577.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: which might have been the other thing he might have been interested in Yeah, did you stay in touch with him when he was in Washington? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2578.0,2583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, yeah, I used to start quite a bit back there, actually. Well, he was out here again. I remember what year it was my girls. Is probably mid 60s. And he said, I saw him down here, what are you going to do this summer? And I said, I don't know. We'd probably go to San Diego. He said, Why don't you go to Virgin Island? And I said, there are two reasons. One, I don't know where the hell they are. And two, why would I go there? And he said, they're in the Caribbean, and the reason you would go there is, I appoint the governor, and you'll go as his guest. So we did the girls and I and Alice's mom, and we went the island of St Croix. He was great. And they it's the old British system, the Government House, and the second story was the governor's mansion when he was there, and that's where we lived. Was in there, and we had a cook and a maid and a chauffeur and the whole lake yard. And every day this chauffeur would show up, and what would you like to do today? And I'd say, we'd like to go to this hotel. What time? I'd tell him, he'd come back, take us the hotel. We'd walk in, he'd say to the manager who was there behind the desk, these people are the guests to the governor, and they are your guests. So we got lunch in the towels the whole eight yards and went along. That","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2584.0,2680.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: sounds great. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2681.0,2681.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was. And then I went back there. We all did again. I pulled the kids out of school because he called me and he said, when Johnson turns up, I'm out of here, no matter if a Democrat gets elected or whatever. Sure I'm not going to do it. If you want to see Washington, you better come back now. So and Morris was there, and so we went back the girls and Alice, and it's when they passed the Central Arizona Project. We were there about 10 days. I was there just long enough to know I was time to come home when I figured the country couldn't run without me, because I'm meeting all these, you know, senators and people and I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337#t=2682.0,2684.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270337/transcript/78714/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/714/original/azu_ms396-047_side1_a.vtt?1745252837","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/714/original/azu_ms396-047_side1_a.vtt?1745252837"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 5 - azu_ms396-047_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2734.056,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/338/original/azu_ms396-047_side2_a.mp3?1744847949","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2734.056,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, this is Psy B tape number 28 we were talking about Washington politicians. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=0.0,5.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: anyway, we went back and actually stayed with Stuart. I don't remember all this. We stayed with Stewart. Two or three days. Morris took me over to Supreme Court and got me admitted. And I think it was, you know, and there's a whole bunch of things in DC that come under the Interior Department. And so he had it all arranged. We could go to Monticello, and we'd go here, and we'd go there and and I went down, it's probably day two, to his office, which is bigger in the basketball court in St John's. I think he's built that. It is a gigantic office. I don't know it still is. Frank Berry was there, and I came in, and he said, Stuart said, What do you want to do? And I said, well, they like go to the Smithsonian and they'd like go here, and they'd like go there. And he said, Okay. He said, my chauffeur will take you. I it. And I think it was Frank, but one of the guys in there said he can't do that. The regulations are the only people that can be in the limousine, or you and your guests, but you have to be in it. And that driver, he looked at me for a little bit, he looks dirt, and he said, tell you what. He said. You you luck enough liking if you'll sit way back, they'll never know the difference. That's great. So that's what we did. We drive up to some place and this big limo and get out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=6.0,93.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: have all the tourists staring at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=94.0,95.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you, wondering, who are they? Who are these important people?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=96.0,98.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were you surprised that MO That Stewart never ran for election again, for any Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=99.0,106.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: initially, I was, I thought, you know, I thought he would do what seems to me, everybody back there does, he would stay right in Washington, and he'd become a lobbyist or a lawyer for a big, fancy firm or something. And he just wasn't interested. He didn't know, you know, he came right back to Phoenix and was there doing his thing at some point. Think it was Carter Stewart needed. Probably still does something like six months to get certain pension benefits. And he wanted a job, and Carter wouldn't give it to him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=107.0,150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He wanted a he wanted a job just to serve out the six months. Yeah, not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=151.0,154.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: an ambassador or something important, but, you know, something kind of important,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=155.0,160.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and and Carter wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=161.0,165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No surprise. I mean, Stuart, you know, as I said, he he was still is, I think, a very good politician, but apparently he just spit the bit out, and, unlike Morris, had enough","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=166.0,179.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and wasn't going to go any further. And he's been practicing law. Kind","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=180.0,183.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of, he practiced law in Phoenix, not full time. Kind of, I don't know how to describe what Stuart was doing. Most of it was me. Did some environmental stuff. He did a bunch of consulting about, like noise and airplane over flights in Phoenix, and then he got involved with those uranium cases, and that's where his focus finally settled in on those he lost everyone. They never won a kid","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=184.0,221.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: ever. The uranium cases,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=222.0,224.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the only one he got me involved. I went up to Phoenix. I can't tell you what year he found some mining contractor who was involved, who had insurance the rest time he's suing the federal government, and he didn't understand how you settle the claim with an insurance company, and he wanted me to come up and do it. And so I went up to spend a day and got him $350,000 or something. But his ace in the hole was always that it was so bad what the government had done to these people that even if he lost all the cases, he could go to Congress and get a bill passed to get him compensated. And he did, and got bush to sign it. So now he's busy finding, or trying to find, all these people that are entitled to money, or their ancestors, or, you know, their siblings and kids, and he's busy writing books, like he always does,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=225.0,283.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and he lectures. He's on lectures, apparently, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=284.0,286.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he used to be. I'd forgotten that he was big on the lecture. So got a lot of money for doing it, but it was all kinds conservation. I used to be. I. Always can't one gift I would get for Christmas was Stuart's new book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=287.0,304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Every Christmas you got a new book, well, I'm going to turn off the tape for one minute. Okay, we're back again, going back then to the same time that Stewart ran for Congress, Moe ran for Pima County Superior Court Judge, and lost, as I understand, a large part, because of a ballot mix","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=305.0,332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: up right at least, that's what he claimed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=333.0,336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you doubt that at all? He then returned to private practice, correct at Udall and Udall now you were then clerking in his in his office. No, you were already gone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=337.0,350.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was already practicing law,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=351.0,352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so you clerked. I clerked","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=353.0,356.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: for them from 52 to 54 now, what year do you run for judge and get beat? 54 Okay, so I was already practicing with this firm when that happened to him, because that was that fault. The fall of 54 is when he got beat. Now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=357.0,374.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: their decision not to hire you did that have to do with just not needing anybody else at that time,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=375.0,379.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: what he told me on the phone was, boss Stewart and I are going to run for public office. He didn't say, Jamie, you can take over the practice, which he could have said,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=380.0,394.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well, that must have been quite a surprise to you when that took over. Yes, it was. And did you know Tom Chandler before that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=395.0,403.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, not real. Well, I had met Tom. I mean, Tom's got a memory like, I mean, I've never met anybody who has a memory like Tom. Tom says, I'm sure it's accurate that he met me in 1946 when we came here from St John's to play in the state basketball Trent. He's got a memory, yeah, and, and I kind of knew Tom while I was going to law school. I mean, I've worked on a couple of cases for Morrison Stewart where Tom and McCarty were involved and got, you know, that was kind of the what I knew, but, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=404.0,444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: until you, until he called you up and offer you this job, you hadn't known him that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=445.0,449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, no and I had looked see. I never even looked for a job. Never occurred to me that I was gonna, I mean, I knew where I was going. I knew what I was gonna do. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=450.0,459.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it would seem obvious it was Udall and Udall. Did you while you were at Udall and Udall? Did you ever sit in on any trials of either Moe's or Stewart?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=460.0,470.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I sat in part of a trial that Morrison Stewart had, some famous case the McCarty defendant, not not Chandler. It's entitled its name. It's in the books. It's called borrow versus El Dorado Lodge, and I did a bunch of work for him on that case in Seoul. I kind of law school back then. You started the first class was 730 and you were done at 1230 There was never a class after 1230 so I'd come down the internet and watch part of that trial Stuart Stewart, I never, I don't remember ever handling the case with Stewart. I just don't handle a bunch of my bars. But and Stewart, you know when, when he get went to Congress, he'd be back here by June. I mean, Congress had recessed, and he'd come back and practice law for five, six months and Christmas time, put all those kids in the car and go back to start serving in Congress. So they but after Morris got beat, then till he got elected in 61 I guess it was he and I handled probably 500 to 700 cases against each other,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=471.0,554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: against each other, really? You working for Chandler now, who was with the Chandler firm at that time. At","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=555.0,561.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that time, well, it was the name of the firm, was McCarty and Chandler. And the third person in the firm was me. And then in 58 I think it was Jim Richmond, came with us. And then in 59 Tuller, who was the spirit guard judge, resigned and came with us. So and McCarty had left us by then, although the name of the firm changed for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=562.0,590.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So then two judges, or ex judges, came on board,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=591.0,593.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, although Richmond, you know, then was this fresh out of law school. Oh, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=594.0,598.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It the future judge, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=599.0,603.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And Morris, it was Morris always said. Chuck Ayers was over there with him. Paul Reese was there for a while. Bill Browning was there for a while. Dion Estes, who's dead, was there for a while. Bob Finn was there for a while. I mean, he had lots of, you know, I don't know. I think most of those guys had their own practice, and he's kind of helping them. I don't think they're on the payroll. But we did, I mean, we tried one case against each other Morris and I did, because it was one of these no win situations. I mean, if we tried a jury trial and he won, my client's going to think I went in the tank, and vice versa. So we never did it. And then I don't remember 5859 sometime in there, we had a case that was a court trial without a jury, and we both talked to our clients, and I can't remember what the facts were. Wasn't an automobile thing, it was some contract dispute, and we tried that against each other, and I won, good. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=604.0,674.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you remember the name of the case at all? I don't. I know. So you, you went into insurance defense for the most part, and and he did mostly plaintiffs exactly work. So your firms were were colliding pretty often, probably, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=675.0,689.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the story I always tell Julie is we had a case, bad case, and I won't bore you with the facts. And it's a wrongful death case, and I'm representing the defendant, and Morris has the plaintiff, and my insurance company is somebody named the Stonewall Jackson insurance company of Birmingham, Alabama. And I've been writing these people for about three months, and one day I picked the bone up, and this guy says, Mr. Udall, I was reading your letters here. Said, best I can determine you and the plaintiff's lawyer has the same last name is used by any way related. I said, Yes, sir, we're brothers. And I hear the phone hitting the side of the desk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=690.0,736.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He comes back, he says, You all say brothers? And I say, Yes, sir, we are, but don't let nobody we handle a lot of cases. It doesn't settle. Mr. Chandler, he'll try brothers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=737.0,753.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: But people around here, you know, I don't know. You know, you'd have to ask most people, I think didn't know whether we were brothers or cousins or what they knew we were from St John's. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=754.0,767.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was your impression of Mo was a trial lawyer,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=768.0,770.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: one of the best, very good,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=771.0,773.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: very good. How about Stuart? Stuart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=774.0,776.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was Stuart. I mean, Stuart was a good trial lawyer. I never I saw Morris try more cases than I did Stuart, but Stewart, you know, one of the secrets to being a trial lawyer, there's two big secrets. The first one is to get it prepared. I mean, there should never be a surprise in the courtroom, and the second biggest secret is being yourself, because if you're not, the jury will spell it out. They'll know your opponent, Paul Reese, Paul's good lawyer, but first four cases I tried by myself was against Paul. In case four, I said Paul, and Paul was trying to be Morris. He wasn't being Paul race. He was being the home, home, home folk, folksy approach. And I said, race. You know, if the issue is which one of us is the most country, I'm gonna win every time, there's nothing I can do about it, because Paul's from Boston. But Morris, Morris always he got him ready, and he had a great feel for how to try a case. He did. He and Tom tried a lot of cases against each other, tried a few with each other, but Morrison, somebody scared the hell out of you in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=777.0,864.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: courtroom in 1961 he ran well, Stewart had been appointed to the Secretary of Interior and and Moe ran In a special election for Stuart Seaton Congress was elected on May, May 2, I think it was 1961 did you work on that campaign at all? You just stayed away from us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=865.0,891.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I always had the perfect answer. Julie, when people were running, they always came to me and said, Give me money. I said, I give all my money. And. My brother, I didn't give him a nickel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=892.0,902.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The right answer, did? They didn't pull you in and into fundraising or anything. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=903.0,909.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they, you know, kind of say, you know, if you got some friends or clients that got money, why they want to give it to us, why I mentioned it, we're here. I never really got involved. Just didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=910.0,924.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any stories related to the campaign, or you just stayed completely away from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=925.0,929.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I just remember, but Morris running and remember, you know, I talked to him a little about it, but sadly, run against him. He ran against","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=930.0,940.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Mac Matheson. Yeah, was the first one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=941.0,943.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah. I remember thinking, from all I knew and what I'd heard, he was a lock. I couldn't see Morris ever losing that election.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=944.0,950.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Right now, you, you've said many times that you you somehow missed the political gene in the family, right? Have you never had any interest in running for office?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=951.0,963.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I think you know, when I look back in it and think about it, and like we talked before, what we talked in my family when I was young was politics. I mean, not just running for office, but what was going on in the country. And I think you either do what Mars and Stuart did, which is get actively involved in it, or what I did, which is just go the other way. I mean, when they were 14, 1516, years old, they were out there trying to run people's campaigns in st John. They were always involved, just in their blood, yep, and I was in dad's. I mean, dad, yeah, one of the old stories I tell. This one takes along. I tell stories. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=964.0,1006.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that's that's good. That's why we're doing this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1007.0,1010.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: One of the, one of the people that in Mormon history. I can tell you all about it from that. But anyway, one of my mother's grandfather's my great grandfather is a guy named Jacob Hamlin. On the other side's mom's family is a guy named John D Lee. They did not like each other, and Jacob hamlin's Son, who would be mom's uncle, was the county treasurer in St John's and dad was the judge, and they caught him with his hand in the cookie jar, and my dad did not believe in that. I mean, my dad, if you were a public servant, that was a trust and you didn't violate it. And what I remember, and I hope I'm right, but Dad would walk from home to the courthouse, walk back and have lunch, walk to the courthouse, walk back, and he'd walk in and he'd say to my mother, Louise, what's her supper? And mom would say, if you're going to send my uncle to jail, you can fix your own supper.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1011.0,1074.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I would have liked to have known your mom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1075.0,1076.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And he did. Dad gave him two and a half to three years in Florida, did he fix his own self? I don't know. I don't remember that part at all. And years and years later, Julie, where I got telling this story, was when I was smart enough to know something. I said to Dad, why didn't you disqualify yourself and get another judge? And he said what he always said, I was going to do the right thing. I was going to be fair. And he said something that the county couldn't afford to pay to have another judge come from another county, and even if they did, it would had to, it would have had to have been one of my brothers, because uncle Don was the judge in Albrecht and Uncle Jess was the judge in saffron. They were the two closest candidate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1077.0,1126.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So there was no way to avoid Udall justice. That's right. Did you, I'm assuming that you must have known Pat Udall, most, first wife, fairly well. Fairly well. How would you describe her","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1127.0,1141.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: different boy? I don't know. I'd describe Pat. She's Alice trying to talk her to coming down next week. Oh, good. That would be great. They got married up there. They didn't tell mom and dad that they I don't think Morris ever told them he was getting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1142.0,1166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: married. Oh, is that, right? They got married up in Denver. Denver and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1167.0,1170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: her family is a very prominent family up there. You know that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1171.0,1174.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I guess I didn't realize it was a prominent family they'd met in Denver.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1175.0,1178.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: There's, her maiden name is Emery, and they're big and banking, and the that's the name of it, Estes Park outside of Denver. Her grandfather founded all that. Oh, okay, I didn't realize that they're, they're big up there. Oh. Off. I mean, Pat and Alice were good friends. I used to see a lot of her, the story I always tell about her. Why I say different I came here. It had to be the year that Morris got through playing ball, and they moved here, and they lived little house right off of Tucson Boulevard, just past just north where Bob Dobbs is on Sex Up there on the hill. And I came down because of having to be here eight days early for my job at the infirmary. I came down on the bus bus station was down here, and I walked from the bus station to their house. Got there about 1030 at night, and knocked on the door, and she came to the door, and she knew me. She knew I was and I said, I'm here, and I need a place to sleep. And she said, You can't stay here and close the door. Might be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1179.0,1265.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you're kidding, nope, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1266.0,1267.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I walked back down to the bus station and slept on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1268.0,1271.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You never got saw Mo, or did he ever know about that, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1272.0,1275.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: think, but I don't know. Yeah, it just, I mean, it was kind of, you know, like I'm there to rape her or something. I don't know what the hell she was, and you had met her before. Yeah, it wasn't like I'm just somebody off the street, yeah, so she's, yeah, I know. I tell you one other story. When I was in the Philippines, mom always told this story. Start, Stuart and Hermey got married, and mom sent me a picture of them, so I know what Hermes looked like. And apparently I wrote her a note saying, Stuart is wearing my shirt. That was the whole comment, which was great when they went to the service. Best thing ever happened to me. I had lots of clothes. Stewart and dad and I are about the same size, so I very seldom got any new shirt. It was something hand in dad. So that's why I was mad that he's married.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1276.0,1333.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In Pat's case, how, how do you think she took to Mo's political ambitions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1334.0,1341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't think she did. I think that was a lot of the problems and the strife, I think. And I don't know this, Julie, but I think there were two. The biggest factor that caused them problems was she was well known. The family was well known in Denver, and nobody knew her down here, and all she heard was about the U dog, and it made her matter and help. She didn't like it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1342.0,1375.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: especially if she was from a prominent family up there. I I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1376.0,1383.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: mean, that was the impression I always got. She and they, they used to get in the battles. I guess I never saw him time, but I'm sure they did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1384.0,1391.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you think she would have been more content if he had just stayed a lawyer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1392.0,1395.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think so. Yeah, I think so. If he hadn't got into the political arena, then he doesn't get his name in the paper. He doesn't, you know, people aren't talking about him as much, and I think that bothered her. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1396.0,1411.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1967 Mo, came to Tucson, and at the Sunday evening forum, became one of the first members of Congress to announce his opposition to Vietnam. Did he tell you ahead of time that he was going to do that? He did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1412.0,1431.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that's one of the few things he told me, is he going to do? And he talked to Stuart about it, as I'm sure you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1432.0,1436.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm interested in you saying, as you did earlier, that he never consulted you at all. Because I've heard that from a number of people. It sounds as if Moe just kept his own","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1437.0,1451.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think he did. I think you know, if he consulted with somebody politically till he died, it would have been dad. I mean, dad could open a lot of doors, knew a lot of people. Dad was, far as I can tell, a note, very highly thought of in the legal community and in the political community. I mean, he was somebody you could trust, and you know, His word was good, so he could help his sons when they wanted to run quietly. He couldn't in public because of his job, but the person probably that he talked to. More than anybody was Stuart. But I think he was pretty much a lone wolf when he came to I mean, the one thing you know that I'm real positive about that Morris talked to me about was when he first found out he had Parkinson's, whether you shouldn't tell anybody. And he went out of his way to come and talk to me about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1452.0,1518.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That was a very personal, yeah, very personal decision. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1519.0,1523.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I told him, I don't know what anybody I told him, Look, you know, you've told him the truth all the time. Tell him, don't hold it back. And he held it back for a number of months before he finally, or whatever, before he finally came up with and I still think he was wrong. I think if he came right out, since he found out, it would have made one damn bit of difference. And he thought it would, he thought it would hurt him next time he ran.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1524.0,1549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He thought just election wise, it would hurt him the in 68 and then again, in 70 he unsuccessfully challenged the seniority system, running first against Speaker John McCormick and then against Hale Boggs for majority leader. Were you surprised by these races? No, no. Why do you think he it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1550.0,1577.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: always been his way. It was always his way. The fact that he took on authority, and I used that in quotes, was Morris. I mean, I don't know how the hell you put it, Julie, but it's kind of like him being the student body president, or him being the capital captain of the team. Somebody has to do it, and I'm the best person. I mean, that's the way he thought and believed it. I mean, it wasn't something phony. He wasn't doing it because he wanted the title it was, you need good people to do this. And when I look around, I'm the best one there is, and maybe that's this supreme self confidence. But, you know, I think when he went back there, he started off with, I gotta learn how it works and all this. But then he got looking at the seniority system, and he thought, This is nuts. I'm not. You know us young people are better qualified, and somebody ought to do it. And he looked at all of his beers and said, I'm the best one. So I'm gonna take you on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1578.0,1646.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: between the Vietnam speech and and and these races for leadership. Do you think that he was already, at that time, considering a run for the presidency? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1647.0,1659.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: can't answer that. I don't know, as I know Julie, I would doubt it just his makeup, because i The impression I always had with with the Congress. Thing was, what I just said, that, you know, they ought to change all this. And he was, he was the one who would be the best to do it. And so he had to do it and and I guess that's what I think, when it came time to run for the presidency, he thought, here's a vacancy, here's something available. I'm better than these other people running, so I better run.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1660.0,1692.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you get involved in that at all? No, not at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1693.0,1696.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: all. I mean, I signed from time to time, but not I didn't evolve in the campaign.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1697.0,1702.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did he ask your advice about that at all? Nope. How did you learn that he was going to run?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1703.0,1708.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I read it in paper. Is that right? Yeah. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1709.0,1713.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was your reaction?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1714.0,1714.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Same? What? Same as with Stuart down here by being the secretary you're you ain't got a ghost chance in hell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1715.0,1726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were other members of the family involved in the presidential elbow","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1727.0,1730.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: got involved. I don't think Eloise may have, in a small way, they were in Richmond than Virginia. I don't think ins ever did. I don't think Stewart. Stewart did, to some extent. I shouldn't say that Alma got involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1731.0,1751.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stewart was campaign chair, right? Wasn't, yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1752.0,1755.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And Stewart consulted with him, I believe, quite a bit on, you know, strategy and all that sort of stuff. And probably helped him raising money. But no, I was never, never involved in that. I know he came out here whenever the hell it was, when he was around, but time he had secret service that drove me nuts, drove Alice nuts. He came to eat one night. And about four o'clock I get this phone call. She doesn't say hello. She didn't say nothing. She says, You gotta get these goddamn people out of here. And I said, What are we talking about? She said, The Secret Service here with all these dogs, this. That","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1756.0,1801.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was before he in fact, that was probably time we came into Tucson for an event in his in his campaign plane. Probably still had the campaign plane.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1802.0,1814.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We he came to eat, and Ella came, and I remember maybe Tom came, but we had secret service up on the roof. It was pretty unbelievable to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1815.0,1826.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Let me ask you about Ella. On December 1, 1968 you and Alice witnessed Mo's marriage to Ella.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1827.0,1836.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Nor house, yeah, I got married","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1837.0,1840.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Nora. Okay, I wondered that, considering that Ella was was born and bred in the DC area, why do you think they chose Tucson? I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1841.0,1851.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Nobody ever said, I mean, you know what I was told was we're getting married. And I don't remember it was me or Alice. Probably Alice, and said, where? And they said, We don't know. And knowing my wife, she said, Okay, get married at our house. So that's what they did. Were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1852.0,1868.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they in Washington at the time when","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1869.0,1874.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: honestly don't remember Julie, I want to say the first I knew they were getting married. Was a few days where they got married and they were in Tucson at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1875.0,1884.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you met Ella before that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1885.0,1887.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Couple times? I liked Ella. What Ella's different than Pat and Norma is different and all of them, but that's neither","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1888.0,1899.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: what tell us about Ella. Ella was, you know, very outgoing, and Pat was very introspective. I always thought. I always, I mean, I thought of Ella more as a friend than I did anything else. Yeah. I mean, she, she cared. She asked me questions. She got along with Alice and got along with my girls, and we never had a lot to do with them, but anything I ever had to do with her, I I enjoyed it. She's a lot of fun to be around. She was when,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1900.0,1937.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when she died, she her death was ruled a suicide. Did? Did that surprise? You? Surprised","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1938.0,1942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the hell out. Yeah. I guess you're told that. You know people who are going to do that call a bunch of people. She called me about three days before. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1943.0,1952.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: she Yeah, did she seem upset? Or just just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1953.0,1957.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: kind of, how are you? We're coming out. You know, miss seeing you. Blah, blah, blah. She","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1958.0,1962.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was planning on coming out here. Yeah, that's what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1963.0,1964.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: she said, Wow. But I've heard, you know, that a lot of people who do that, or do that sort of thing, make a lot of calls to people and kind of close the doors","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1965.0,1976.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: saying goodbye. Well, it didn't sound like closing a door. No, it didn't, but that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1977.0,1981.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: what I'm saying. I've heard is that one of psychiatrists will tell you that's what happens with people that do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1982.0,1988.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that now, their their marriage was, were you the only ones there? Were there other people? Was it? I'm trying. I should say wedding rather than Yeah, well, whatever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=1989.0,2002.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Jack marks married him. He was a spare court judge. Then lived in the same neighborhood we did. Marx's wife was sick. She never went into the house. Could have been dead by then, but I don't think so. I think that's all there was there. Think it was just basically, you all, we all went out to the tack room and had dinner afterwards. I remember that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2003.0,2028.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: sounds like a good place to go. Mark's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2029.0,2030.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: butt. I remember that because it's still a family joke with with Alice and the guy, I've been to the tack room three or four times in my life, and the guy came by and, yeah, they got all the vegetables in the individual dishes, and he said, brussel sprouts, Your Honor. So anytime we have brussels sprouts, that's what a trick part of my house. And Marx, it was kind of loud and obnoxious in a lot of ways. Just roared, but he and Morris and Jack were pretty good friends. I don't remember anybody else being at that wedding. I'd have to ask Alice her memory on that sort of stuff's been her mind. But it seems to me that it was just the five of us that went to dinner. That's kind of why I'm saying it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2031.0,2080.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What kind of first lady Do you think Ella would have made? Oh, boy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2081.0,2090.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think Ella had done pretty well at it, don't you? I think I think she would have risen to the occasion. Oh, I do too. And I think she. Had her own causes, or got her own causes, and I think she would have been a great supporter of his. I mean, she was great pushing him up front, she wanted in the background, and all those sorts of things. No, I think she did it, prove it, yet,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2091.0,2116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: she always struck me as having a very good relationship with Mo, and that she was the one person I knew who could tell him he was dead wrong or he was full of it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2117.0,2127.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and she wasn't adverse to doing that when she thought that, what kind of President do you think mo would have made? I think he would have been outstanding. You know, when I'm prejudiced, you know that. But I think, you know, unlike a lot of people that got that job, he would have got and he would have picked them careful, real, solid people to work hard, all this scandal stuff you got with departments, whoever now the president is, you wouldn't have had it with him. I don't think he's a pretty good judge of character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2128.0,2165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, the year he lost 22 primary Yes, he also fell off the ladder, broke both his arms, contracted viral pneumonia, suffered a burst appendix, got peritonitis, and had a good year and began showing signs of Parkinson's. Were you in touch with him then at all,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2166.0,2186.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: hardly at all. I mean, I was in touch with Ella, but not more. How","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2187.0,2189.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: did she cope with I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2190.0,2191.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: thought, pretty well. I mean, it's like, you know, somebody told me I had prostate cancer and I had surgery and all that stuff. Well, what the hell you gonna do about it? I mean, you got to live with it and get on with it. And that's kind of the way Ella was. I don't like it, but there's not much I can do about it, and we got to make the best of it. Right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2192.0,2214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: When? When did you first learn that that mo had Parkinson's?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2215.0,2219.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: What year did he announce it? The only way I can answer that, and probably, like I'd said, he when the few times went out of his way, he was in Tucson, and he called me and said, I want to talk to you. And said, you know that they think I have Parkinson's disease, or I do have Parkinson's disease. And my concern is, should I announce it? And and I said, Look, you know you're one of the first, if not the first, who started in disclosure your income tax returns, and you know, you've always been up front with it. You got to be up front with this. It's not going to phase you politically one bit. You know, as I understand the disease, it's not like Alzheimer's or something. You're able to function mentally. You're just as good as you ever were. So why not tell him? And he wouldn't do it. I know that, and I know he got differing opinions from differing people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2220.0,2287.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do you know how much later it was that I want to say more than","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2288.0,2290.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: six months later is when he finally and it could be even longer to me, but I maybe six eight months","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2291.0,2297.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: because the actual diagnosis, I don't think was made until 79 or something, but I always got the impression that, I mean, even from talking to Ella, I got the impression that, you know, I certainly knew something was wrong back as early as 77 or Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2298.0,2314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so Well, when I talked to him, the diagnosis had been made. I mean, he, he had been told by, I think it's a doctor in Phoenix and who first diagnosed it the way I remember, I don't know, I know what, what I was told and was, you know, he was having these problems, the motion problems and walking problems, any i I'm always sure it was Phoenix. And he walked into the doctor's office, and he looked The doctor looked at him and said, You have Parkinson's disease. They wouldn't run a bunch of tests or anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2315.0,2357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Your sister Inez had Parkinson's right the end. How old was she when she contracted it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2358.0,2364.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: She was 70. Okay. I mean, how was it? Number of years back, I was out of the Ross office to take a deposition. He had a book on Parkinson's, and I'm waiting for him, and I'm reading it, just gonna and he came out, and we introduced ourselves, and he said, Are you related to MO You doll? I said, Yeah. And he said, Well, why take the book with you? I got a lot of them, and I got it here someplace. And we got through the deposition, and he. Said, probably you want to read it because you're worried that you're going to get it. You're not people. It doesn't run in families. It doesn't have anything to do with your genes. They said, Oh, really. He said, Yeah, what we think is the people who lived through the 1918 flu that killed all the people, which would have been mom and dad, they were alive then, and the people who were born and lived in an alkaline climate, which St John's is, those are the two factors that make you get Parkinson's. And I said, maybe, but let me tell you something. I said, my oldest sister just got diagnosed with it. I have, on my mom's side, an uncle and an aunt who had it. You ain't gonna convince me it doesn't have something to do with your gene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2365.0,2450.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, yeah. It's amazing how little they know. Oh, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2451.0,2454.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: is, yeah, it is. It really is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2455.0,2460.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about Norma? Do you know Norma? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2461.0,2463.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: know Norma fairly well. I just talk about it. Norma and I are Morris's co guardians. We take care of the money. So I don't know Norma that well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2464.0,2482.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: let me ask a couple of general questions now I really just just have a couple more here, two of two of your nephews, most son, Mark and Stuart, son Tom, are running for Congress this year. Obviously, you know that I do Tom's been Attorney General of New Mexico for for a while, eight years. Eight times? Is it eight years? Wow. Okay, why do you think it took Mark or or another member of another of most children, so long to get involved in politics?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2483.0,2519.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know. I think you know, in talking to Mark Randy Morris's second son, and he were on the Alps for a long","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2520.0,2532.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: time, Mark and Randy No, or Randy and Morris,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2533.0,2539.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I've never owned the full story behind that, except I know Randy had some very strong feelings about Mo. I talked to Mark. Now, was it 810, years ago, we went up there to a wedding, and he was kind of saying, then, you know, I'm all of a sudden starting to think about running for office. He said I never did like it when dad was running. I didn't like him being gone. I didn't like all the turmoil. I didn't like all the press. But I think, you know, my opinion about about Mark is he finally just decided this kind of, like his dad, somebody got to do it, and I'm the best person, I'm going to do it. Where Tom I think more. I mean, Stewart, you know, got a lot of press and did all that, but Stewart's kids have always thought Stuart's crazy, and they're right. I mean, they're scared to let him drive around the corner because he may not come back. They don't know where he's going. And so I don't think that the the impact on Stuart's kids were the same as it was on Morris's kids being in positive","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2540.0,2620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well, and Morris's kids lived in Colorado most of the time they were growing up, as did they spend much time with him in Washington, very low in their knowledge. Do you see any other budding politicians in the Udall extended? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2621.0,2638.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: know Ann used to think she was always going to run. For years, she used to talk about she was going to run, but I think once she went to North Carolina, she gave that theory up. No, I don't see it, but I don't go out there and hug them and shake hands and figure out what they're going to do. How about any of your kids? No, my kids have no interest in politics. I hope now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2639.0,2660.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: your one daughter's Lolly is a, is a or Laurie, I should say, as a attorney. How about your other daughter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2661.0,2668.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The other one's the oldest, and she got a Master's Degree in Health Administration, and did that for about 10 years. And quote, burned out, which I don't understand. And she went to school at Stanford, and a friend of hers is, if you got over $6 million he'll invest your money for you. So she's His Girl Friday. She works for him. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2669.0,2697.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: let me ask you a question that's. It has just been on my mind since I read Mo's book too funny to be president. In there, he wrote of being very self conscious. And specifically, he wrote my my glass eye coupled with my gawky frame and lack of confidence made me extremely made me an extremely self conscious boy. Yet most seem to be willing to be the first to jump into student body, President, you know, quarterback of the football team and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338#t=2698.0,2700.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270338/transcript/78715/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/715/original/azu_ms396-047_side2_a.vtt?1745252860","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/715/original/azu_ms396-047_side2_a.vtt?1745252860"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 5 of 5 - azu_ms396-048_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":533.016,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/content/5/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/339/original/azu_ms396-048_side1_a.mp3?1744847952","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":533.016,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, we're starting tape number 29 side a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=1.0,5.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we've been here a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=6.0,7.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: We were just talking about about Mo's self confidence level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=8.0,12.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: See, I've read that book a few times, and I remember reading that in the first book, thinking, Who are you trying to kid? I never saw that. I never, never, ever. I mean, Morris, yeah, yeah, he was big and he was gawky, you know, they're not. He got tall quick. Inas got tall quick. And the rest of us are the same size. And we used to start and I used to play Morris and nine US and tennis in St John's, and that was, I mean, they discharged the net in these monsters in front of you. I remember that. But Morris, when I knew him, never lacks self confidence. You know, he was tall and he was skinny. Mom used to go to Phoenix. Think she used to go once a year to buy clothes, just her her dad. She'd go with dad to hold court, and she'd say she wanted pants this waist and this length. And they'd say, lady, nobody is built like that. Now it's Morris. That's what she needed for him. But if you know, if I ever knew anybody was self confidence, yeah, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=13.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's what I've heard from almost everyone. You saying things like, he ran for majority leader because he thought he could do a better job of it. That was always my impression. So I, well, I'm interested in your but you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=86.0,97.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: know, he was the student body president at St John's High School. I mean, so you didn't see him as last president, and, you know, none of those things was I ever I didn't want to be, but I never saw the fact that he was insecure. And I don't think Mom would have ever let him do that. I mean, I don't think he would have if he came in whining about himself, and you know, he only had one eye, and this hurt my Get the hell out of here and get doing the work. You know, no, that statement, I just don't play. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=98.0,129.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't. And one final question, What, in your opinion, were Mo's greatest strengths and and greatest weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=130.0,141.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it's a good question. Never thought it out. Intelligence, integrity, the ability to work, the ability to to get good people around him. It always seemed to me, I'm sure he had some people that weren't that good, that I didn't know, but he always surrounded himself with good people. His weakness, his biggest weakness, my biggest complaint is how he treated these children. I it's part of what I said about Randy and that, like I said, I don't know the whole story, but anybody who has children, you owe him a duty to, one, support him, which he did not question that, and two to be there to help and counsel in that part, he never did. I mean, I I, like, I told you, he didn't care about anything. But every time he and I ever had a serious conversation, I always said to him, Morris, you gotta quit. Let letting the staff run your life. And when you go to Denver, go see those kids,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=142.0,228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he wouldn't do it in the in you mean, when he went in the presidential campaign to Denver, he didn't see him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=229.0,235.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was there a lot of times, and they resented it, and should","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=236.0,238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: now, was that ever a function of difficulty with Pat or I don't think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=239.0,245.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think when the kids were younger, that may have been a function. You know, they were having disputes, and she'd throw him in out of the house, or he'd leave the house for a while, but they had great times together, along with their bad times, and he was around, you know, for that, but once they got started to be adults, it seemed to me, and still seems to me, that he divorced himself from his children, and he should, I mean, I'm not saying I'm The world's greatest father, and I'm not, but I'm usually there to, you know, Alice raises them, she does all that. But my girls, I think, would tell you, you know, I was always around, and I'm here to do my thing, and Morris wasn't any even if it had something to do with he and pat you. He should tell Pat, go to hell. I'm, I'm still going to do it. I mean, I think you know that that's it's always bugged me that in Stewart, you know, God bless his soul, has been good with his kids. He's around, even though he's not all there all the time, in his own manner, but I don't know that's, well, that's Mars. Has never been one. You know, when I look back at it and think about it, he's never been somebody who makes a lot of close friends. He just that wasn't in nature. I mean, probably as close a friend as he had is probably Chuck Ayers, I don't know that. And Tom, you know, but I mean, for a long time, Tom would tell you that the closest friend he had was Stewart, not Morris, but Stewart's more a confiding sort and talking sort than Morris is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=246.0,359.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I saw something that Moe had written. It was a form or something he needed to write for. It might have been Time Magazine, I'm not sure. But they asked on this form who his closest friends were, and he listed you and Stuart and Chuck and Tom basically. But my impression even speaking to members of his staff, was that he didn't. He kept his own counsel. I guess he really didn't have any close friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=360.0,390.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't think he did, Julie, I really don't and, and you're right. I mean, probably is I should have his closest friend was Stewart. I mean, they were, they were soul mates in a lot of ways. And they, I think, did talk to each other. And I suspicion you'd have to ask Stuart, you know, Morris did talk to him about ideas and running for this sort of thing and that. But he, he even, you know, when I, when I think about it, what I remember about him in high school and at the university, he never had a lot of close friends. He knew I had a lot of people, but he never got real close and hugged a lot of them,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=391.0,433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: even even that young. Yeah, yeah. How about with women in high school speaking? Sort of the only place that, I guess my, you know, my knowing Mo, which was obviously considerably, considerably less than you. He always seemed a little awkward among women, with women, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=434.0,452.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think, I think he was, I, you know, I don't, I really don't know about Morris and girlfriends in high school. I'm sure he had some like we all tried to. I know he had some girlfriends in college. He's, I'm uncomfortable Morris. Morris was started. I mean, started. He's different than both of us when it comes to that. He's more attuned to what goes on in the world than we are, I guess. But I don't think Morris, you know, making a speech to a women's organization, peace kick. I mean, make a speech to anybody to him, peace kick. He's very, very good at it, and he gets it down on their level, whatever it is, he's got that talent, but I don't think he was ever real comfortable around women. I don't Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=453.0,512.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's the last question I have. Do you have anything to add? Or have I worn you out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=513.0,515.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I'm sure there's 500 more stories that you don't want to hear, that I got in here someplace well, but I don't think until somebody says something and I think, okay, I'll","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=516.0,527.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: get them another time. All right. All right. Thank you, Burke, you bet you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339#t=528.0,530.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146519/file/270339/transcript/78716/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/716/original/azu_ms396-048_side1_a.vtt?1745252888","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/716/original/azu_ms396-048_side1_a.vtt?1745252888"}]}]}]}