{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/mp4vh5ff06/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Stewart Udall"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 4, tape 5"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Steere, Peter (interviewer)","Udall, Stewart L. (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1996-10-24"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["New Mexico--Santa Fe (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Stewart Udall conducted by Peter Steele. Stewart Udall discusses growing up with Morris, and their family. Stew discusses his own political career, and Mo's career as well."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.059 (uid)","MS396.060 (uid)","MS396.061 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Stewart Udall conducted by Peter Steele. Stewart Udall discusses growing up with Morris, and their family. Stew discusses his own political career, and Mo's career as well."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 5 - azu_ms396-059_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2743.344,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/356/original/azu_ms396-059_side1_a.mp3?1744848002","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2743.344,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is Mars. Udall Oral History Project tape number five. Peter steer is interviewing Stuart. Udall in his office in Santa Fe New Mexico. It is Thursday, October 24 1996 Stuart, at the beginning, I'd like to thank you for agreeing to participate in this oral history project. And I think what I'd like to do is take you back away is I'd like to start off by getting some thoughts and some reminisces from you, from your early years growing up in St John's, both you and Mo growing up as brothers in St John's. There was a newspaper article that was published some years ago, I believe, in the Phoenix paper, in which you were quoted as saying, growing up in St John's was sort of like growing up in the 19th century. And I wonder if you might share with us, you know, some of your reminiscences of your early years growing up in St John's. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=0.0,60.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=61.0,64.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: meant by that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=65.0,69.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you have to qualify a little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=70.0,72.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And Mo and I, our lives were very much parallel. You know, two and a half years difference, he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=73.0,81.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: my height. 10 or 12,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=82.0,88.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so we were always on equal terms,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=89.0,91.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and some sibling rivalry, but we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=92.0,95.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: got a lot from each other, but the way that we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=96.0,98.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: live, when I say 19th century horses most","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=99.0,109.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of our years, just until I left, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=110.0,115.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: graduated from high school that was the main form of energy, no electricity, they had a little bit my grandfather tried to be modern and had a little hyper electron. So we had lamps. The main energy was wood. The wood stove in the kitchen, very important, that was harvested nearby. And I looked at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=116.0,145.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: my life. I remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=146.0,147.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when I was in the cabin on one of these Lady Bird Johnson trips. We went to Calvin Coolidge, his home, which I think was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=148.0,154.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a state park,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=155.0,158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: State Historic Site in Massachusetts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=159.0,161.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And I went in to the place,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=162.0,163.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I've been in Robert Frost farm in Derry, New Hampshire, and I saw essentially the same type of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=164.0,172.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: living arrangements.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=173.0,177.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: And I think we're very fortunate, because it gives your life a stretch. A lot of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=178.0,185.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: people had you grew up with these 19th century","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=186.0,188.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: coup d'etat","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=189.0,193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that gave you an experience of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=194.0,197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: seeing, really, the beginning of this century. That we're now ending","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=198.0,204.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: earlier than that, because your lifestyle, working with your hands, working with horses, with plows and things","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=205.0,214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of that kind wonderful way to grow up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=215.0,218.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, when I'm closest to the land. Do you feel that this was important in terms of both yourself and Mo, in terms of some of your thoughts and feelings later on, when both of you were involved in a number of important environmental issues? Did some of this come from that closeness to the land? Well, people","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=219.0,238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: ask me that question","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=239.0,240.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: quite often in these later years. Where did you get your interest in conservation","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=241.0,250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and in truth, you know, if you go","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=251.0,252.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: back and read the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=253.0,256.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: role or wasting their tenure and you see the plots and values","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=257.0,267.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they were clinging to and trying to transmit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=268.0,273.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So much of that relates to living close to life, and we certainly did that. I can't say, I wouldn't say that either, Mo and I don't think there's anything you wrote back in our teenage years or that even, which don't show that. The kind of insights that you might expect. Well, this guy, he picked up on conservation philosophy as a boy. But I can say this when I became a congressman, when I was living in Tucson and so on, the friends that I had some we used to go into the Santa Fe mountains, go down to Babi Cambridge,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=274.0,327.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and they were talking about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=328.0,331.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: conservation. I picked a lot of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=332.0,334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it up there. And I remember Joseph crouch when he came to live in Tucson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=335.0,338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I began reading him and I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=339.0,344.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: just it became very natural to me, because he lived close to the land you inevitably get offended by nature the importance of natural","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=345.0,361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: process. Stuart, do you have any memories of your grandfather, David King? You all. He passed away in 1938 you would have been 18 at the time. And I talked with this about the Belmont Eloise a little bit I was, you know, I know David King, the book that he did. You know get Pearl worked on and Levi helped finish? Do you have any memories of talks with David, with your grandfather, or family, get togethers or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=362.0,389.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: no, he was, I just it's one of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=390.0,397.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: my regrets that he wants it more accessible and so on. You know, we, with the Mormons, respect patriarchs and the elders. So it was as though they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=398.0,413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were on a kind of pedestal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=414.0,420.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: I remember, I have some memories of him. I remember this must have been the last year or two of his life,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=421.0,426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I would love to ask him some questions. He had a habit living in the old hotel there, of getting up to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=427.0,441.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a sunrise walk. Walking,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=442.0,444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: walking back out to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=445.0,451.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: farm where he had formed earlier. He must have had such a rich storehouse memories about coming to St","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=452.0,461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: John's that time that, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=462.0,465.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 6: we don't have Purdy any details. The first year after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=466.0,469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he came, he was sent to Utah. He wasn't a cowboy. He had a sent a couple of young kids with him, and they drove 500 head of cattle down from Northern, Southern, Northern Arizona, up on the strap. They crossed the Colorado on the ice. Going","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=470.0,492.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to be cold. They could get out in the middle","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=493.0,498.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of that river","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=499.0,502.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: how they nursed the cattle across, what their concerns were. We don't know anything about it, but he must have had some extraordinary memories. But there was, there was that distance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=503.0,518.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So basically, you as a young person that or any other younger member of the family, it wasn't he was not the kind of person you would sort of sit down and have a long conversation with. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=519.0,529.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm a grandfather now, I hope that you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=530.0,536.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: ask my grandchildren, who I've spent quite a lot of time with that they would have a much different answer. And it may have been the attitudes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=537.0,545.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: and stories that time generational, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=546.0,549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: they were, they were, they were great. Trent bird figures out of the cast. I don't think that David Udall","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=550.0,563.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had the touch with children so many grandparents. I think there was a shortcoming on his part, as well as ours.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=564.0,575.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What Stuart? What about Levi and Louise? Your mom, your mom and dad, in terms of influences, you know, they had on you and Mo and your sisters as you were growing up. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=576.0,591.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we had a close knit","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=592.0,597.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: family. We had very strong. Of caring parents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=598.0,602.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We were very respectful. I saw that interview Arthur Miller with public television, life used to have a structure. Now he only could see the flow, but part of that structure, he said, with the moorings of the time that was respecting parents, obedience, you were taught this, my father being a judge, church leader. Remote because he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=603.0,648.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: also a farmer, and used to take us out, show us how to perform and talk about things. But in terms of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=649.0,660.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: influencers, you a very important way. Also small town environment was also","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=661.0,669.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: working and living close to the land. And I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=670.0,672.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: think some of my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=673.0,674.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: liberalism, because my dad, as a judge and a church leader, was sort of consciously judicious, not as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=675.0,685.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: emotional. My mother was more emotional, and I think some of my feelings about being a champion of the underdog King, she felt the effect on the Lee family of the mountain of massacre. John","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=686.0,705.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Lee, she was always the person","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=706.0,712.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was on the side. He expressed it in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=713.0,721.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, when you, when you finished, when you finished high school, you know, before your military service during the Second World War, you went on a mission, church, mission, where? Where was that? Too. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=722.0,736.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: this is a given little background. This is true with these, a lot of these devout Mormon family today,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=737.0,745.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: most of the kids,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=746.0,747.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 6: unless there's something final, family today, all the children, that's probably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=748.0,753.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: tradition. So here's, here's my father. He is the state president. He's the top church leader,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=754.0,762.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: five of us. I was the only one to go on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=763.0,766.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a mission. Mo never did that. Well. Mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=767.0,773.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: happened. I felt as the oldest son. You used responsibility on me to set examples, and I knew that my father wanted","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=774.0,789.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: me to own a mission, and I sort","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=790.0,792.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of accepted it, and I did it, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=793.0,801.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I up and I was I ended up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=802.0,806.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: feeling it was a good experience,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=807.0,809.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: particularly because of opportunities I had,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=810.0,815.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I was The one that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=816.0,819.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: went through the books of church, and I I became, even while I was on my mission,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=820.0,831.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: much more of a free thinker. My","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=832.0,834.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: father ever understood","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=835.0,835.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that I was. I developed then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=836.0,840.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: during the war years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=841.0,849.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: particularly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=850.0,852.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: my understanding,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=853.0,856.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: but the decision to go on the mission was yours. It was a decision that you decided you wanted to do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=857.0,862.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: well. I I felt positively about it. I wasn't bulldozed into doing it by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=863.0,870.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: my father or my mother. I knew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=871.0,874.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I knew it was expected to pay the illness and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=875.0,878.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I it. And,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=879.0,882.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: yeah, I, I went into it with a very positive feeling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=883.0,887.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was there ever any consideration that Paul would do this all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=888.0,891.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=892.0,895.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had a kind of a bright church. Going when he was 12 or 13 years old, I was always very dutiful, going to church, doing the war, teaching, passing the sacrament, church ceremonies, all those things I did that I don't think neither of my brothers ever did. Moe, his sense of humor came into playing. And he was once thrown out of a Sunday school class because he he poked the teacher. And he always had that, that sense of humor playing there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=896.0,938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: and and I think that also worked with him to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=939.0,943.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: more skeptical church teachings","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=944.0,950.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: always something to laugh about in life generally. But mo had dissected sense of humor. He was always seeing the funny or absurd, absurd side of Mormon teachings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=951.0,967.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He just didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=968.0,969.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: go down the line the way I did. He kind of call it a break, but he just didn't do the church things that young women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=970.0,982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So by the time that mo finished high school in St John's and started at the university, you know, before, just before the war started at the University of Tucson, there just he was, it wasn't something he was going to do. No, I,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=983.0,994.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when I went to the University of Arizona after high school,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=995.0,999.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they had a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1000.0,1002.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Mormon church seminaries","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1003.0,1007.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: there. I was very I was very dutiable, and I studied religion","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1008.0,1014.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there before I went on my mission, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1015.0,1020.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: I really tried to be a student of Mormonism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1021.0,1026.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I never had the strong of faith there. There are people who, almost by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1027.0,1033.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: their makeup, want to believers, and they don't ask questions. I always my mind filled questions. I try hard to believe. I think more","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1034.0,1047.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, the reason I was asked when there was one of the things that has always interested me has been the the attitude of the early Mormons and later generations toward the land your your grandfather, David King. I don't have the exact quote with me, but there was a quote, and I don't know it was a speech or a letter, but, and I will try and remember it, but it was something to the effect that David King said that be good to the land. It is holy, it is sustenance. And about 15 years ago, when I was living in Montana. I was running a little cabin on the ranch of the state president that part of Montana, and he was a gentleman who was in his mid 70s, and I helped him out a little bit on the ranch. You know, during the hours I was off of work, and we were walking one time in some upper pasture. He ran a couple 100 head of cattle there. And, you know, it was a particularly beautiful day, and the wildflowers were up, and there was a view of the Rocky Mountains above the upper pastures. And, you know, I said, I said, you know, Dick, your ranch here is a beautiful place as ranch you have, you know, and he sort of looked at him, he said, It's not mine. And I said, What do you mean, Dick? He said, Oh, I'm just a steward for it while I'm here. And this was a gentleman who was in his mid 70s. And what I read later, much later on, I read the statement that David King had made. I was struck by the resemblance, you know, between two men many years apart removed, but basically sort of saying the same thing. And that's why I think I sort of moved into this area. You know, we were talking a little bit about David King and growing up in St John's and living close to the land there, there is something, and I've detected this in other people's writings, also about this a different attitude toward the land than perhaps some other other groups, as these hordes of people moved west and the West was settled. You know, what was going on in the Salt Lake Valley seemed to be a little different, you know? Well, the this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1048.0,1166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I observed some of this kid in Sunday school lessons, my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1167.0,1176.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: daughter, I don't remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1177.0,1178.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 6: grandfather lecturing this, talking about this. There was the Old Testament,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1179.0,1186.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: ideas of plant stewardship, very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1187.0,1190.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: important. There was our home in St John's my father's home was furnished rather Sydney,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1191.0,1196.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: above one of the doors. So used to buy these things. If you went to Los Angeles or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1197.0,1203.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: somewhere that were modeled that said, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1204.0,1215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 6: Earth is the Lord and the firm would show it you're seeing the world through religious teaching, religious","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1216.0,1230.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: thought, this concept of stewardship. I love that word. I used it a lot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1231.0,1238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: writings and what I said when I was secretary of interior that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1239.0,1244.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: this idea of Lange were just brief tenants. I use that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1245.0,1250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: phrase, and I think probably I had, I had,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1251.0,1254.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was soaked in this more than my brother","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1255.0,1261.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: was. Mo came to later round. This","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1262.0,1267.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was the attitude, but that's sort of deeply embedded in Mormon theology and Mormon teaching. It really permeated their lives","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1268.0,1279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: during the Second World War, you were on active combat service in the Army, Air Force, and Mo, so it was also in the army ever toward the end of the end of the war, any, any, any thoughts on the influence of the war on you and Mo, and did the two of you ever talk about Your experiences and what you felt, how the war affected you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1280.0,1302.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in terms of your thinking? Well, here what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1303.0,1306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there are some letters between this during the war, to me, are very interesting. They're in these files, my father kept some, maybe, and I and they show us kind of trying to be intellectual, thinking about the meaning of life and meaning of the warmer. I wrote a I wrote a piece. I don't know whether or in these private","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1307.0,1349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: papers. I did it right at the end of the bar, sort of in the vein Abraham.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1350.0,1359.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: When did get his name? Pledge yourself lies. They did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1360.0,1364.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not die in vain. You know that phrase, this was deeply embedded in my thinking, and I wrote, I call it a testament. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1365.0,1378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: wrote a testament written on the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1379.0,1388.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: completion of the war, it's only between the thesis on the court that both died and we must live so that their lives we must Try to help fulfill what we all were thinking about in terms of the sacrifice our lives on the line and those who died that We keep faith,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1389.0,1417.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: stood after the after the war and born, and you went back to school. I went back to school. You both finished law school. I believe you finished law school after the war too, right? Could you tell me a little bit about the setting up of the of your law practice in Tucson? I believe your father's, I believe your dad's, or both of you into the bar and then you set up law practice at 47","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1418.0,1444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, no, it's 4848 I got out. They don't want to sit in the law school. I got out just in time as someone done a string of volumes, out of Italy. I had a lot of points. So here, Oshima and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1445.0,1470.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: I was mustered out, fortunately, within a month, five","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1471.0,1476.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: weeks, I remember I just got","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1477.0,1480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: time I was discharged in San Pedro, I hitchhiked to St John's. There was four days left or something. I think my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1481.0,1492.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: dad got there the last day that I could enroll in law school. So Moe didn't start Law School. Over a year later, he was nearby. I got out in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1493.0,1508.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the spring of 1948","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1509.0,1514.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it's interesting. Mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1515.0,1517.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I talked about buying a newspaper at St John","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1518.0,1521.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 7: Wilson. Purchased.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1522.0,1532.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It shows a hometown is a strong magnetic pool. You see so many","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1533.0,1547.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: people, I thought of going back. I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1548.0,1552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a little bit","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1553.0,1560.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: uneasy, Mo, and I talked about buying the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1561.0,1563.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: paper. But unfortunately for me, COVID went to see he was a semester ahead of me, so I couldn't go. I don't think my wife, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1564.0,1577.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tom Chandler, Tom","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1578.0,1581.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he and evil D Cassini, my dad then, was on the street board. And of course, that gave me a prestige, a little prestige, but I just started. I took over Tom's practice. He had a little office, and even he could see he had an auditorium. He owned water companies, and I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1582.0,1614.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in there a year, year and a half","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1615.0,1620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: later, how did that Stuart come about? Just something you both decided","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1621.0,1624.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to do. We do together. We decided to do together compatible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1625.0,1631.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And I don't think, I don't remember any discussions that options. We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1632.0,1646.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were fond of each other. We liked","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1647.0,1649.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: independence. I couldn't because my father was on the street. Either could have gone","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1650.0,1666.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: produce, telling me once, but this was after I had taken a right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1667.0,1671.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: position, I just settled down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1672.0,1680.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We liked our independence. We liked just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1681.0,1683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the two of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1684.0,1687.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: us, the law practice in those early years, but general law practice, you did both civil cases and criminal cases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1688.0,1694.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: General law practice, Mo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1695.0,1701.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it after a year or two,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1702.0,1704.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: not probably part time jobs, he went to work for the county attorney.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1705.0,1712.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He still had the law firm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1713.0,1714.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to divide time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1715.0,1717.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We had some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1718.0,1719.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: interesting experiences we kind of learned in the court subject.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1720.0,1734.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 6: We could make an argument to a jury that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1735.0,1744.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: very effective, used to flip the coin you had. The opening argument, you made the closing the closing argument was the most important movement. But we Trent McCoy the same way, and we were very successful cases, I continue that gave us confidence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1745.0,1769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: Mole was a better lawyer. He had more aptitude, memory and so on,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1770.0,1780.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: his grasp of evidence he later worked, text, evidence he was more of a scholar and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1781.0,1792.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: probably a better quote.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1793.0,1796.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I didn't have a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1797.0,1799.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I mean, I felt reinforced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1800.0,1804.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Important cases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1805.0,1809.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were there, both of you would often work case together, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1810.0,1812.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: if there's an important","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1813.0,1820.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: case, Stuart as a law practice, development film. The next thing I wanted to talk to you about both of you, both of you became involved in other community issues. And I sort of wanted to get some of your thoughts on, feelings on both your involvement, to what extent Paul was involved with some of the early civil rights issues in Tucson, the Fair Housing Commission and some of the school desegregation. I know this was something that was of interest, I believe, to both of you. I'm not sure how much Mo was involved in that. More yourself. Can you talk a little bit about, well, I want to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1821.0,1856.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: save that for later, after that question, talk about US","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1857.0,1860.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: political careers sort of diverged.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1861.0,1866.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: But in 1947 or 48","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1867.0,1874.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1875.0,1876.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: organization","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1877.0,1878.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: started in Phoenix. Tucson branch, called the Arizona Council","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1879.0,1883.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Pacific unit, was the name of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1884.0,1885.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the liberal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1886.0,1889.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: organization. Purpose was civil rights. Main concern was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1890.0,1898.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: eliminate school segregation,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1899.0,1903.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: lunch counter thing and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1904.0,1907.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: drugstore civil rights, full rights for blacks and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1908.0,1913.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the black community In Phoenix","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1914.0,1917.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was small, probably about the same proportion","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1918.0,1921.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the question","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1922.0,1923.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we were working with the leaders of that community. Bill Mahoney in Phoenix became their life long Trent. He was one of the leaders","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1924.0,1937.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: there. We had rather extraordinary","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1938.0,1941.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 6: success Arizona, desegregated schools before Rottweilers court of education,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1942.0,1950.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was deeply involved in this. It fit my personal connections.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1951.0,1957.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Where I got this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1958.0,1960.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: from. I joined the NAACP when I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1961.0,1963.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was in this service, I just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1964.0,1967.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: thought it was outrageous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1968.0,1970.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: They treated black","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1971.0,1979.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: people. I think mo did too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1980.0,1980.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think Moe shared my convictions, but I just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1981.0,1987.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: my memory may be faint and he may have attended meetings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1988.0,1996.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: As far as the Arizona council said this was the spirit caring organization. I was an officer. I remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=1997.0,2009.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the meetings","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2010.0,2013.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were, I'm sure he shared my connection, but I don't think he was involved in this organization,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2014.0,2022.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Some of this apparently campaign literature","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2023.0,2038.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: involved in Islamic understanding. James,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2039.0,2044.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: were we talked a little bit about, and I'm not sure when you would have made this decision. I suspect sometime in 53 we made a decision to run for Congress in the fall of 1954 Can you tell me a little bit about the decision making process that you went through when you made the decision. Did you all talk about this a lot?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2045.0,2066.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, this, this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2067.0,2068.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: COVID start, first big split between us. It was quite serious, but I you a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2069.0,2083.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I got interested.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2084.0,2092.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Franklin Roosevelt, 19. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2093.0,2101.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 1944 when he ran a lot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2102.0,2105.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of time, and in 1946 I was my dad's assistant when he ran the Supreme Court. That was a tough election.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2106.0,2114.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I wrote radio commercials,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2115.0,2117.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: traveling, put up posters,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2118.0,2119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2120.0,2122.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And then that same fall, in 1946","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2123.0,2126.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I wrote this pamphlet, which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2127.0,2128.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: is published in St John's paper, the veteran who looks at my tortilla","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2129.0,2133.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that was sticking my neck way out. My dad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2134.0,2161.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 5: In 48 I was just out of law school, Trent Franklin law. I got involved in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2162.0,2166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: County politics. I went to all the meetings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2167.0,2185.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think in 50 I ran for the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2186.0,2192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: county church conventions, priest committee,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2193.0,2201.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: my law became vice chairman. I was involved","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2202.0,2209.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in the Truth","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2210.0,2211.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: campaign. I was deeply into party politics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2212.0,2215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Moe never, didn't go that route.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2216.0,2221.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm not saying that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2222.0,2226.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he wasn't solid Democrat, and he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2227.0,2229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: wasn't doing things. In fact, I'll tell","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2230.0,2231.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you some things later,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2232.0,2234.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but I was kind of a party person and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2235.0,2237.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: heavy into a mole. And this would have been since","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2238.0,2242.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he came later he went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2243.0,2246.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: into county Trent. We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2247.0,2251.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: still had our law firm, still","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2252.0,2258.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: there. Up. He developed a lot of skills","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2259.0,2270.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: because he went Trent my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2271.0,2280.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: trials, Rob Morrison ran for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2281.0,2283.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the county","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2284.0,2285.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: attorney, our attorney general statement, two more ran for county attorney. So he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2286.0,2294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: setting out on a career of elected politics because","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2295.0,2314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 4: he was such a lawyer, but here I am now. I managed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2315.0,2318.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: partisan campaign second time in 1950","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2319.0,2322.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I started, dropped off, ran","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2323.0,2335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: for office,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2336.0,2338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: selected what's after 52 he had a very,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2339.0,2346.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: very successful run first.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2347.0,2355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: And he decided, I think early on, that he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2356.0,2363.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: going to pull Levi don't run","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2364.0,2367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: for Judge, Congressman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2368.0,2380.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Very Nixon,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2381.0,2398.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Dream I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2399.0,2405.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: would buy it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2406.0,2409.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: contacts party because","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2410.0,2421.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: my father's brother, my father made it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2422.0,2433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: care to me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2434.0,2435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that the older","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2436.0,2437.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: generation has called I should back off, which I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2438.0,2441.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And I still, I saw that was my very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2442.0,2461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 7: much. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2462.0,2467.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: happened? This is kind of explosive State Bar convention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2468.0,2481.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That time. Began","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2482.0,2486.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: six weeks I don't know. I don't think he was serious. He may have wasn't as serious as I don't Think it was serious. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2487.0,2521.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I let Paul know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2522.0,2552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, no. Little bit","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2553.0,2572.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 8: about testing, testing, testing, testing, testing 123, testing 123, you we're Still a lot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2573.0,2587.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: more all by them and interpretation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2588.0,2601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes, She already started The other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2602.0,2641.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 7: Campaign. Perspective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356#t=2642.0,2644.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270356/transcript/78734/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/734/original/azu_ms396-059_side1_a.vtt?1745254275","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/734/original/azu_ms396-059_side1_a.vtt?1745254275"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 5 - azu_ms396-059_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2756.856,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/357/original/azu_ms396-059_side2_a.mp3?1744848009","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2756.856,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart in the general election, in the general election, then of fall of 54 Could you tell me a little bit about your Republican opponent?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1.0,9.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, my opponent was Henry Zipp, ZR PF a Tucson lawyer. He'd been a classmate of mine, or we'd gone to college, law school together. He dated a wife once, as a matter of fact, and he had gone to Washington with Senator Goldwater when he was elected Senate. And apparently Senator encouraged him to run, and he ran a pretty rough campaign. He made a lot of charges that I was too liberal and fellow traveler even, and so on. And it was a rather exciting campaign. I have to tell you one instance which shows you that Mo and I had patched things up. We're back at Udall and Udall after he lost the primary George Rosenberger the Tucson daily Simpson, who was the city editor, or something. I had heard rumors that zip was going to make a list of charges. We heard 1416, charges against me, and this, this was very serious. So he called me one morning and said, I've got zips charges here. You want to come over and and write answers to these 15 items, or whatever it was, we'll run them side by side in the newspaper, which was wonderful. This was this citizen the newspaper that was against me for for ZIP, let's say so. Mo and I dashed off to the newspaper, and we both were typists, and they gave us a type two typewriters, and we just batted out the answers right there. And that didn't Scotch it completely, but it certainly does put a lot of water on the fire. But I that district then was quite democratic. I carried all the counties. Pima County began fading slowly on me. The Republicans were finding out how liberal I was on my voting record, and each election was a little more serious for me. I ran four times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=10.0,162.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did did mo help at all, or get involved with your campaigns, your congressional campaigns,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=163.0,170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not in a serious way? I think he probably did anything I asked him to do. I don't, I don't remember whether he made speeches. Moe after he lost, he was finishing his term as county attorney, and he that was very serious business to him. And of course, in some ways, I rode on his shelters. He'd been elected county attorney. He was more visible than I was in Pima County, so I never kidded myself that I won the election on my own","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=171.0,215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: story. When you arrived in Congress for the first time, you joined a delegation that consisted of Senator Goldwater and Senator Hayden, and at that time, the only other Congressman would have been John Rhodes, representing the Phoenix area. Could you tell me a little bit some of your your early impressions and interactions with the other members of the delegation when you, when you joined them, and would have been in January of 65 excuse me, January 55 Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=216.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: John Rhodes and I, and this was true with Mo two, became very good friends. We never played games with each other. We never hassled each other. We were on the same committee. We were our big goal was to get the famous Central Arizona Project. There was an interesting personal side. John came from Council Grove, Kansas, you know, and he was one of the first people at Williams Field right after the war started. And my wife was his secretary. I didn't know there, and so they liked each. And that gave us a strong tie. But John and I are voting records are very different, but we liked each other. Senator Goldwater by then, was was in full flight. You know, he as a as a politician, Barry, reading, ran for the presidency all those years, and he got the job as the chairman of the Senate campaign committee, and he kept that for several years, and he traveled all over the country. I didn't have too many contacts with Barry. We would have our have a delegation meeting once in a while, usually to discuss water projects, Arizona things and so on. But Barry had a wonderful set piece there, because Senator Hayden took care of all the Arizona matters, Chairman Appropriations Committee. He had all this power. Apparently didn't need to worry about Arizona. He just ride along on Senator Hayden's coattails. Senator Hayden was kindly to me, he he was in another way, like my grandfather, you know, he was kind of on a pedestal the all part Germany, and he would give you advice and so on, if you ask for it, he was helpful to me in my career. But, you know, we were different generations and and I always thought, you know, if he had quit or something that happened to him in 1956 after I'd been a congressman there for two years, I probably could have won the race for the Senate, but he didn't die, and he stayed on all those years and And it just closed that avenue of political opportunity for me, but I had very good relations with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=250.0,445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: him. Stuart, during your three terms and three full terms that you served in Congress. Did you and Mo keep in touch confer, talk about issues, or perhaps, you know, very early pieces of environmental legislation that may have come in during your first three terms. Realized there was not a whole lot of it, then more came in as you moved into the 60s. But did you keep in touch? Or, well, sure,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=446.0,473.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the way Congress functioned my six years Rayburn, the law said Congress finished on August 1 and Rayburn took that very seriously, and you quit. So we would have two homes. We would go home. Our kids would enroll in school. Our families, the children then were young. They were growing. We had a lot of family ties, family dinners and family weekends, you know, and so and the Udall Udall law firm continued, Congress was not a full time job, although I probably after I when I came home in the fall, I'd spend half my time on congressional matters. And Mo would give me a few law cases to work on and to try, and I had a modest amount of income from it, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=474.0,530.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=531.0,533.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he followed my congressional career, he had essentially the same interests that I did. His record showed that the way he picked it up when he became congressman, we never Moe wrote a textbook on evidence. He became very prominent in the bar. He was a health reform, judicial reform, he was quite busy and concerned with with his law and the law profession. But it did not surprise me when suddenly, Kennedy, after I'm elected to my fourth term, Kennedy offers the job I'm going to run for Congress. I thought that was wonderful, and that he could aspire to succeed me and do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=534.0,590.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: But Stuart, prior to the time, one of the things that you became involved with was a thing in Congress called orientation. For freshman Congressman. And I believe, if you were, you know, one of, one of the influential people who sort of got this going. And could you tell me a little bit about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=591.0,609.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It's probably the exact stuff as in my congressional papers. I guess. I don't know, but it was strange when you look back at it now and see all the organization they have. But I thought that there ought to be for these new members of Congress coming in, both Republicans and Democrats, some kind of orientation. You know, they now have, they go to the Kennedy School. They have two or three day orientation courses, all kinds of experts come in. There was nothing. And it just seemed to me missing link. And I was an organizer, and I I joined, I think, with one or two Republican Congressmen. I think Fred Swingle from Iowa became a very close friend of mine, and we organized a one day or two day seminar. I remember asking Scotty rest of the New York Times to be one of the speakers and tell them about Washington and how the legislative process worked. We would get people from the Library of Congress to explain how a bill moved through Congress. And that was successful, and I think we did it for two or three years later, because mo knew a good idea when he saw one, he followed my path, and he picked up on this and and in the 1960s they had something similar. I think actually, it developed into something larger and more important. But we started it then in 58 or 59 I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=610.0,726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: think, I believe it continued as a I think we called it the freshman seminar, late, later on, later on, Stuart, could you discuss your views, some of the early Native American issues that you encountered during your your time as a congressman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=727.0,751.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=752.0,756.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was as a part of my civil rights convictions, I guess I felt very strongly my father did. He was determined when he got on the Supreme Court to reverse a 1920 decision and give the Indians the right to vote in my six times when I ran for Congress, very few Indians in Arizona voted, even though the law had been changed. They just culturally, were not keyed in to our electoral system and but when I ran for Congress, there was a professor, Bill Kelly, anthropologist, University of Arizona. I turned to him, Jim officer and others. I was very much interested in understanding what was called Indian problem, what was being done and not done for Indians in my first year as a congressman, the previous Congress had passed these termination laws, and I became convinced that that was very bad policy, and I helped Senator Metcalf, Congressman Metcalf and others working trying to soften the impact of that. But in fact, I remember my first summer, or second summer I had, I got a member of the interior committee and senior member, head of the Indian Affairs Committee to come out and hold a hearing. We went over to sales and had a hearing about their problems of getting potable water and things of that kind. But the whole Indian scene in the 1950s I must say, was not home had improved over what had been 20 years earlier, and this matter of getting appropriations for roads or for health care and all of that. This was important, of course, Senator Hayden, you'd go to him and and he'd help on most of these things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=757.0,891.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart following up on that a little bit. Could you discuss your role in the legislation that enabled the establishment of the. The kid, peak observatory on the same Papa, go down to observation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=892.0,902.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=903.0,906.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: my memory of that is, is rather vague. But this, I remember being approached and being involved. This seemed like a wonderful thing to happen, tied to the world astronomy picture, and it put the University of Arizona on the map. You know, you didn't the Indian leaders, then, were not sophisticated, most of them, in many instances, they were not facile with the English language. I don't think we ever asked much about it, but I don't think we even went out of the way to see if they got economic benefits from it. I don't know. It just was, was something that you saw as a astronomy project that would put U of A on the map.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=907.0,974.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: There wasn't any strong opposition. I don't remember, you recall. I don't remember any at all. I don't remember any Stuart jumping","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=975.0,983.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: up a little bit in time. Now, Could you, could, could you talk a little bit about your role in the, in the Arizona presidential campaign of John Kennedy, and Mo's role, if they're, you know, how involved did mo get and, and, you know, in spell, I guess it actually the campaign started, actually in 59 and going into 60, leading up to the election. In the fall of 60, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=984.0,1007.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was a great admirer of Adley Stevenson. I campaigned hard for him, a lot harder than Senator Hayden did. Hayden was up that year campaign. He, he would hardly mention that for President, you know, the old man had all these friends in this aura of old man with great power. He didn't. He never was much on speeches. Anyway, I would give the vote for Adley Stevenson speech, as we made around. You know, candidates traveled together. Then there's a Purdy, he and I earnest in Parliament and the governor, but I wrote an article. It'll be in my papers for, I think the New Republic, winter of 5960 15, called Why ADV Stevenson wants the Democrats. And my thesis was that this man was so eloquent and so impressive and so on, that if we didn't nominate him, did we have a person who could match his eloquence stature? So that was my feeling. I was a Stevenson person, after I worked with in the summer of 59 beginning in May and June, I sort of became Jack Kennedy's counterpart on the House Education Labor Committee, and I worked very closely with him, and I saw his qualities, what they call charisma. Now I call Hollywood the personality of the man, the attraction. I wasn't impressed with that, but when I worked with him and with people like Archibald Cox, who was an expert on labor law, and I became acquainted with him that summer, and Ted Sorensen and others, I saw the strong qualities that he had, and I became convinced that the Democratic Party ought to nominate Kennedy when Congress quit, I was never recruited. The Kennedy people had an organization that an early organization in Tucson, but the night that Congress quit, about three in the morning, this would be in August, in September, I think, I called over to Kennedy's office and asked if he could see me. And I said, Yeah, come on over. I told him I was going to go home and work for him. And so I was a volunteer. In effect, of course, they were delighted to have me. They i. Uh, Arizona was thought to be in Lyndon Johnson's pocket because of Hayden and farlin that they would control Arizona delegation. So I didn't make a big public display of my support. I quietly went around my congressional district and recruited friends of mine. Jim McNulty was a lawyer in Disneyland. He was one of them. And said, Let's go to the convention and let's work for Kennedy. And I had things quite well lined up. I I would make the rounds during this is the fall of 1969 and the Kennedy people, of course, began to look to me as the Arizona leader. And I put in an enormous amount of time and energy on this one of my great memories. I told him, give me a day in Arizona. Finally got a call, and I said, you know, you had this little prop plane, the Carroll. He said, Next, Next Friday, I guess it was that he would go. So we left the capitol in this little plane. We went to South Bend, and he had a big at Notre Dame, a big, big rally, and some of the campaigns beginning. And then, in fact, this, this, I think was after Wisconsin, but before West Virginia. And then we got on the plane and went all night and arrived in Flagstaff at six in the morning. And that day, we did Flagstaff, Tucson, and Yuma, and I was, of course, the person that was with him. And we had this state convention. We carried it, and we had the unit rule, and Kennedy suddenly had all of Arizona, part of we had the whole thing. And the Johnson people were furious and desperate, by the way, and Gene podium helped him. He tried to beat my brains out for two or three weeks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1008.0,1328.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: But I I don't remember Moe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1329.0,1334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: being involved. He may have gotten involved in the fall after Kennedy got the nomination, but in terms of helping Kennedy get the nomination, I was the leader, and there were people. Harry Ackerman was a county attorney. Donald Hummel had been there. There were others. There was a good Kennedy group, but all of them deserved credit. But of course, I was a state campaign manager, and I became chairman of the delegation to the convention as a result of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1335.0,1367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that Stuart after President, President Kennedy's victory in November. Could you describe your feelings when you were asked to join the cabinet? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1368.0,1382.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: let me say, first off, I didn't,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1383.0,1386.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1387.0,1389.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: entered my mind. You know, when I went to work for Kennedy that I was doing this and there was some big reward like that, Arizona never had anybody in the President's Cabinet since they just think of that. And I did it because I believed in Jack Kennedy. I also I thought that it was time to break the Wasp mold, that if any Catholic could win, it was Kennedy, and it would be a great thing for the country if a Catholic were nominated and elected, the first indication I had, because, you know, here's big old California, tiny Arizona. I assume that? Well, I didn't. I didn't think during the campaign that fall, you know, Kennedy's elected. I have a chance to be Secretary of Interior. But the way the election turned out, Kennedy had a two and a half million vote lead when he hit the Mississippi River and the West just turned him down flat. He carried New Mexico, Nevada and Hawaii. I think that was all California when the absentee ballots were counted, Nixon carried California. So Kenny didn't owe anything much to anybody. Two people were Edith Green from Oregon Congresswoman, a friend of mine and myself, she'd come out Purdy in Oregon like I did, but I got a call from high Raskin, who was Kennedy's Western expert, and he said he was in Las Vegas. Said. Coming over, said, there seems to be a little talk about you being in the cabinet. I was pleasantly surprised. And he came over and we went to dinner and things and so on. He obviously he'd been talking with Bobby, I think two things led three things led to my being asked to join the captain. One was the electoral outcome in the West. They didn't know anybody anything California was defined in three or four ways at the convention afterwards, and I think Kennedy, having worked with me on the labor reform bill, they had a pretty good idea of kind of person, what I had to stand up and take a lot of heat by going by working on that issue. And I think the the other thing that that factored in was that they wanted a Westerner. And who else was there now, Wayne Aspinall, the congressman from Colorado. He really wanted the job and thought he was the logical person. He was very proud Manny, I think he was disappointed. He didn't campaign for it. Others did campaign for it. I found out later, we're very disappointed, like Clyde Ellis, who was the head of the Rural Electric organization nationally. But it sort of fell in place. And then I got a call saying that the President Elect wanted to see me, and what do you want to see me about? And so I went to see Kennedy in Georgetown. I made a Trent back to Washington, went out and saw him, and I was going to be one of the first, first, second or third members the cabinet announced, and then a freakish thing happened. He called Senator Anderson from Mexico, who was a new Chairman of the interior committee and a very powerful figure. And he said, he said to Anderson what Kennedy told me, he said he decided on Udall and Henderson was, again, kind of a father figure with me. He liked me. And he said, Of course, if, if you wanted the job, you were my first choice. Henderson said, Well, I'm interested. Kennedy was flabbergasted. Actually, he was a ploy. Anderson had been in Truman's Cabinet Secretary of Interior, and he was riding high as the chairman of the Interior Department, he wasn't interested, but that held it up for a week while I found out what it was he wanted, and he wanted something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1390.0,1675.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, can you talk a little bit about President Kennedy's inauguration? We all remember Robert Frost reading the poem you were you were involved in in getting Robert Frost to participate in the inauguration ceremony. Unfortunately,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1676.0,1690.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yes, it was really my idea, frost, and this happened in the idea in Tucson the elections over Robert Frost was on one of his portrait reading campaigns, as he called them, and he came to Tucson. And of course, we were already friends, and it had them in our home. We had him out to our home in Tucson, and Bill Meredith, a prominent poet, was traveling with him. And I had, I hadn't seen Kennedy, but I had gotten calls. He was probably going to call me and wanted to see me. And I said, I said I didn't want to talk to Robert about it, because he got his expectations, you were in trouble if they were Dash. And I said, it would be, wouldn't be a wonderful idea to have Robert Frost, New England poet, be on the program at the non kind of give a poet's benediction or something. And I said, You think he'd agree? He said, I didn't. I didn't talk to him because I didn't want to know that. When I saw Kennedy that first afternoon, when the Anderson thing happened, when we finished, I said, Jack, I've got an idea I want to talk to you about you may know I'm close to Robert Frost, and he said a lot of favorable things about you. Why not have him on the program at the inaugural? Kind of get a port's New England benediction, and Kennedy, just like a flash, said, That's a great idea. Said, We don't want him to give a speech. He's a master of words. He said, it'd be like Lincoln and ever and ever to Gettysburg let him read a poem. And so then from that point, Kennedy's people took over, and he told him that he wanted frost on the program. That's where it started. But it was, it was my idea, Stuart, after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1691.0,1827.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you had, you know, accepted the position and friends of Kennedy's cabin, you know, resigned your congressional seat, did you and Mo discuss then, shortly after, then that he might run, you know, in the special elections, they would that they would then have to, once you would resign, obviously, with the cards on the table dictated they were gonna have to have a special election. Did you and Mo talk about that in any length at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1828.0,1850.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, here's the, here was the sequence on it, because once it was out that Kennedy was going to nominate everybody, all the people the Democratic Party, hears the magic seat open again. You see it only happens like with Mo and I there all yours and that there would have to be a special election. Well, everybody who never dreamed of running for Congress got their antenna hub. There were a lot of candidates Democratic primary, but mo immediately, I mean, we're still partners, we're still there. And he just right out said that, what did I think of him running from my seat? I thought it was wonderful. And he began plotting it. And, you know, I told him who my a lot of my key people were in the various counties, people like the Novi and others. I think he and Jim may have already been friends, and he got busy and began making the rounds. Now, the seat wasn't vacant until I resigned, of course, and then they had a primary in April and general election in May, which Moe almost lost. He didn't lose it. It was the circumstances, although he sort of blamed me for it. But I, you know, I was once I was out the camera office, I had no time to help him or to do anything. And the reason that election was close, all of us knew this. In Arizona, the Democratic vote were the Hispanics, the labor people, the education people, the blacks, the poor and so on. And if you have a general election, and all these county offices are getting out all of their people, the big get out the vote in a special election, the Republicans hold these very strong, because they were much they turned out to vote. Nobody had to carry them to the polls or anything. And Mac Matheson, who had run a strong race against me, and of course, ran again. It was a close election, because it was a special election.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=1851.0,2001.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, one of the things that I wanted to get into now was, I think maybe treating it as a whole period of time with with your tenure in the cap and the Secretary of Interior, you know, through in both Kennedy administration and the Johnson administration from January of 61 until January of 69 that eight year period. At that time, Mo was serving his first four terms in Congress, and one of the things that I was really interested in was, could you discuss your relationship with Moe during that time period, you're basically serving in a high administrative position in the cabinet, making policy. Moe is serving in the House of Representatives. You know, as a congressman, you know, involved obviously with the drafting and passing of legislation, given the fact that both of you had, if not identical, certainly similar, interest and support in terms of areas of Wilderness Conservation and the number of the number of bills that came out and passed in a time period, there were some landmark bills, the National Wilderness bill, the Wild and Scenic River Act, the National trails Act, a number of other ones. What was the relationship between you and Mo on these environmental issues, many of which I'm sure you both supported, and many of which became law. How did you two work together on these Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2002.0,2094.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there's one thing that you have to bear, or two things happen. In mind, Mo is elected his lose his family back there, our children were close. Still are, you know, we had a lot of family things that we did together, so there was no distance from the standpoint of opportunities for us to talk and exchange views. The other thing you have to remember, Mo is a junior member on the interior committee, and Wayne Aspinall, from Colorado, was a domineering character. He was the last of the one man committees, and this meant that he he decided, and the members of the committee, particularly the junior members, played the kind of subordinate roles that he wanted them to play. So there wasn't much opportunity at a national level, you know, wilderness bill, wild rivers, for mo to play any big role in the house. But he was, he agreed with me on, we were on the same wavelength, on wilderness, on wild rivers, on all these other things. And he was telling me what was going on in the committee, you know, Aspen all tried to hold up most of the major legislation, and so we worked together, and Mo played an important role in a lot of the legislation, in trying, along With John Saylor, the Republican, to make Aspinall move over. But on the other hand, he and John Rhodes were both on the committee. He didn't want to make Aspinall mad, because he's the one man who could block the central Arizona project. That had to be on their mind all the time when the fight came on the central Arizona project. I mean, we were talking all the time, and he and John Rhodes did a tremendous job in the house of lining up the support and fending off the Sierra Club from killing the bill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2095.0,2234.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Since you led us into the central Arizona project, why don't we talk a little bit about that. Now, obviously the central Arizona project or its earlier predecessors by different names, have been a big issue for a long, long time. And you know, with the final signing of the bill for the final funding in 68 in the last years leading up to that, from what you just said, there was a all of you were sort of working together in this Mo and John Rhodes on the floor of the house, you know, getting getting boats both together. Could you talk a little bit Stuart about because it was part of this issue at the time that sort of galvanized the whole country, the dams in the Grand Canyon that had been proposed as part of the central Arizona project early on, and the Sierra Club got, obviously got very involved. Could you talk a little bit about that and how that manifested itself? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2235.0,2293.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the one thing to remember is because of Carl Hayden's position, Chairman Appropriations Committee, everybody in the Senate owed him favor, and the Senate was never the problem. The problem was the house, and that's the reason what Moe and John Rhodes were able to do was so very important, but it was part of the tradition procedure, the reclamation program, that you had to build dams, build a huge central Arizona project, you had to have a dam that would produce pumping power, cheap pumping power. You had to have a dam to produce revenues to pay off the cost of the project. And the things that the Bureau of Reclamation had planned were Marvel Canyon, Denton bridge, Canyon did. They had to be. They were an integral part of it. And that's where the Sierra Club campaign put Arizona in a real squeeze, because these, these, these two dams, were absolutely vital and integral. My sense of it was that if we didn't, if we were stubborn, didn't yield on that issue, that the project would go down, it wouldn't pass in the house. That was my political judgment. Now Roy Elson, who was manipulating and doing all kinds of things that I read still resent to this day on center. Staff was trying to play Hayden's cards with making threats various things, but when I saw the Sierra Club and the national conservation movement mount their big guns on the dams in the Grand Canyon, I just felt that a compromise was necessary. And I ultimately, in the fall of 1967 said that the dams were misconceived and well, however, I said it it's there in the paper that they had to be dumped. Well, then the immediate problem was, this has never been done before in Western history, when you've got to have a source of power. And the thing that I did, which I really provided, pushing the leadership on, was to get this page power plant. It's the only power plant in the West coal plant where the United States government owns 25% of it, and we had to put that together in a hell of a hurry. And the California power interest had to cooperate. And I had done so much for them, I had the power to do it, but we had to put that together as part of the project. So most started out, and that's where he had this grew ha with the Sierra Club","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2294.0,2494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: fighting them","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2495.0,2497.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: on bridge Canyon Dam. If they were wrong that this, that this had to be built, and so on and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2498.0,2507.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think his judgment all along was the same as mine, but until we had this alternative source of power, if you didn't have bridge Canyon Dam, you had no project. So of course, he and Rhodes had standing fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2508.0,2524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, my time is maybe a little off. But there was another plan that was proposed. I believe it was around the same time, or maybe a little bit earlier, Pacific Northwest water plan, south southwest. Excuse me, Pacific Southwest water plan. Could you talk a little bit about, I think that was something that you did have an interest in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2525.0,2543.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I had an interest in. I was the promoter of it. And it was, it was an attempt at a compromise, a kind of a ploy in the way, on my part, to bring Arizona and California together, because the fear that a lot of us had is that that if California mounted an all out campaign against the central Arizona project, they combined with the Sierra Club, interesting combination, could kill it and the so some of my people, Jim Carr, had been my Undersecretary. He was my Undersecretary. He was in California. Then I was trying. I always had very good relations with Governor Pat Brown and Senator Engel and others said, well, instead of having this fight over limited water. Let's have an augmentation plan. And the Bureau of Reclamation, they love this. They're engineers. They whip this up. Well, we'll tap the Columbia River. We'll bring the Columbia River. They have so much water, it's the biggest river in the West. And we'll build a big project and bring water down, and then we won't have to fight because we'll have augmentation of the Colorado River. Well, who shot this down? Not to my surprise, scoot Jackson, senator from Washington, because he now is very powerful. Anderson had moved on. He's chairman of the Senate committee, and he says, No way. And that was blown up. But it was a political attempt, at least to show that from my standpoint, and my department initiated that I gave the Bureau of Reclamation. And going and let's, let's look at this. Let's develop this to alleviate a head on conflict between Arizona and California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2544.0,2669.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Story In retrospect, in Mo's book too funny to be president, he devoted a chapter in that book to the Central Arizona Project. And you know, I think sort of looking back with hindsight, which we all do from time to time, you know, and with, particularly with all the problems that have occurred with the Central Arizona Project, with people not buying the water and some of the people it was intended for, and all the problems recently in Tucson with, you know, pipes falling apart and everything like this. Did you ever have as Mo, did any. Any sort of hindsight, second thoughts about about the central Arizona project that might have been done differently, that it has basically, you know, helped to fuel the tremendous growth and, you know, in the Phoenix area and the Tucson area, that if there had been more different or different type of planning, Mo talked a little bit about that in his book chapter, different cities have been grown up a little different way. Any second thoughts about the central","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2670.0,2726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: area? No, we talked about this a lot in the 1980s as the project was coming to fruition, and we both had a lot of second thoughts. Senator Goldwater, they Arizona. People were startled. I wasn't. They said, Is there any vote you regret? They asked Mary when he resigned, when he retired, one i.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357#t=2727.0,2729.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270357/transcript/78735/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/735/original/azu_ms396-059_side2_a.vtt?1745254297","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/735/original/azu_ms396-059_side2_a.vtt?1745254297"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 5 - azu_ms396-060_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2622.816,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/358/original/azu_ms396-060_side1_a.mp3?1744848012","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2622.816,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, when we left off on, on the on the other side of the tape, you were, you were in the middle of the discussing some of your, you know, thoughts years later, looking back on the central","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=0.0,13.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I just talked to somebody the National Geographic, who's doing a piece on playing two hours winning the end of May, and I think Glenn Canyon Dam was at stake. Glad Canyon should have been a national park, but this whole Colorado River development idea, pushed originally by Hoover Herbert Hoover in a conference right here in Santa Fe dividing up the river, considering River Basin planning and the highest and best use of water, what This compact between the states did pushed by California and COVID was a tragedy. Arizona had to get its water. I presented testimony more than once on the central Arizona project, and we presented it as a project to rescue farms. Farming Arizona, hand it's all going now. Still have some of the richest farm, farmlands in the world. In the desert, where you have a 12 month growing season, you could raise The crops that produce high prices and so on. You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=14.0,132.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: uh, Stuart, when we left, when we left off, you were just sort of finishing off your discussion about the Central Arizona Project and the the farming and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=133.0,140.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, this was presented to Congress as a program to rescue farming. So the project is finished, the economics are wrong. So costly the farmers can afford the water. So naturally, we have second thoughts. This is the largest, most massive project, and it's not going to be paid for unless the city dwellers in Phoenix and Tucson pay for it, because the farmers can't pay for it. So it's an example of bad planning, example of bad economics. And I naturally have a lot of regrets, because I spent 14 years of my life put in a lot of my best efforts to get the project now to find out the people that we said and believe we were trying to help can't afford the water is shocked. But I also have to say, at the same time that I never, in the 50s, 60s, thought of the of Phoenix becoming another Los Angeles or Tucson becoming another Phoenix. I just Well, I'm back to being a conservationist. I don't like to see over development. I think that's what we're seeing the quality of wine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=141.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, I wanted to move on to a little more general question. Did did mo influence your thinking at all on environmental issues and vice versa. Did you influence his? This is a more general question, just over the years, nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=250.0,266.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think there was a symbiotic society. I don't think Trent had a big argument on things, in a way, because I was a congressman. First, I'm Secretary of Interior, in a way,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=267.0,281.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was most mentor. But I don't think he'd like me to say that, because he'd say he didn't teach me anything. I had the same ideas, and he's probably correct, I guess,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=282.0,295.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sort of coming out of the question you may have already answered this, were there any for. Particular environmental issues that UMO agree disagreed on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=296.0,305.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't, I don't think so. There was one, one he picked up some of the balls that iron was trying to carry at the end of my Secretary of Interior, the whole Alaska lands thing. Mo played a crucial role, he and John Saylor, Pennsylvania, of keeping that option alive for the nation. And he did a tremendous job on that. And of course, as chairman of the committee, it's one of his most grand achievements in the Alaska land decisions. But we just well. The other thing I was going to mention was one of the few times in his life when I ever saw mo back out of fight. I'm still trying today, today to get the 1872 mining law reform, and the golden moment to do that was in 1977 when he was the new chairman and Scoop Jackson, they got along, working together wonderfully. Frank Jackson and Mo and I had a very warm cooperative relationship. So they were ready to to amend that law, and Moe introduced a bill. But he after his presidential campaign, for good reasons. He was terrified that he was going to be defeated in the next election because he had had to run as a liberal Democrat, more liberal in his district when he ran for president. And of course, his toughest election, other than that first election in 1961 was in 1978 and he suddenly, he'd introduced a bill. The thing was starting to roll back up, not because purely political reason. He didn't talk to me about it. I was disappointed in that, but he never somebody just said, well, Moe's quit the fight. And I asked him about next time I saw him, and I think he said politically, they were threatening to run a recall election the small minors in Arizona recall election. Of course, they couldn't run a real call election, and all knew that because the Constitution the United States, you can't recall it, but they could have made a big fuss. He may have been justified in feeling he didn't want to take on that fight, but we're still now hoping to do something in 1997 20 years later,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=306.0,482.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: just a minute ago, you'd mentioned a state far away from Arizona that was of interest both you and Alaska. Could you talk a little bit, I believe that there was an effort on your part to try and set aside some lands toward the end of the Johnson administration that Johnson would not, would not do or that, you know, then, and you mentioned that mo sort of picked this up, and then later on, some of this was set aside in the Alaska Lands Act. Could you talk a little bit about your effort there, and at the end of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=483.0,510.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: your Well, I tried. I did this consciously. The Park Service started working a year before the idea that Johnson turned in that he would sign National Monument proclamations, creating a lot of national monuments, and I was pretty astute political we had We had a big we had a presentation in November after the election. These proposals proposed 10 million acres. One of them was in Arizona. I had to show my own bona fides, and that would have put Oregon Pipe Cactus National Monuments and the Cabeza Prieta refuge would have been wrapped in together as a national monument, Sonoran Desert National Monument, with a recommendation that he made a national park. But I had two in Utah. I had several in Alaska, including the Gates of the Arctic, which is now in the park system, and, well, it's a long story. Johnson and I got in an argument that dragged out to the last morning. He didn't he. For strange reasons, he didn't do it and but Mo and John Sander picked up this d2 language, which they carried over, and that was in the Alaska Natives, Bill and that kept the door open for Congress to act, as it did in 1980 with the Alaska Lands Act. But mole was one of the real architects of that. That was one of his great achievements. No question","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=511.0,635.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, that sort of leads me into into the next question. I think the Alaska Lands Act is, is a good example. Mo is remembered in his legislative accomplishments for his, you know, ability to bring people together, to get a consensus and get the votes together, you know, on a bill and on the Alaska Lands Act, it involved a lot of travel, a lot of hearings, a lot of debate, a lot of redrafting over and over again, you know, to reach a compromise that would pass and eventually pass by a by a very, very large margin in the Congress. Could you talk a little bit about your thoughts about Mo's approach to consensus building and at resolving conflicts","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=636.0,674.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when he had one of his great skills? There were times highways I had his skills was as a person who could bring people together and get them to compromise, I got angry quicker than I had I and I had arguments and battles of the kind that he didn't get into. Don young, from Alaska really was a great antagonist of Moe's, and Moe had a very low opinion of him, but he always joked with him. Moe had no rancor in his makeup. It was hard to stirring to anger. He'd laugh. He'd laugh if he was defeated, go start over again. But when they took that poll, us, news, World Report took that poll about 1981 and 1982 and they asked the members of the House, who is the member of your body who can take a bill to the floor and make the most effective presentation? Oh, you go home, who is the one that handles things in such a way, makes them possible to enact difficult legislation that was a great gift. It's a shame as time, as much","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=675.0,777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: more Stuart, your your your thoughts at all coming from both your time in Congress and as Secretary of the Interior, and this is an issue that still is with us to this day, I appreciate hearing your comments on the Navajo Hopi land dispute, which is obviously still with us and has been a long, a long standing issue. Did you? Were you involved with this at all in efforts during your time in Congress, or the Secretary of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=778.0,805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Interior? Boy was involved? I, I as a congressman in 1958 I think it was gone. A bill you had to pass special legislation, a bill to set up a three judge federal court to resolve the dispute. I was naive enough to think that you'd take the argument to the court. I thought the Hopis would win, but I didn't go into it with any preconception. You create a three judge federal court, serious, high level court, and they would see it in resolved. Of course, they couldn't resolve why I was gone by then, but I started it all by putting it in the courts. And when the decisions were made in early 1970s which brought this all into the head. Of course, I had nothing to do with that. I was gone. I sensed that Moe, because of my mother and his own sympathies, the Hopis being the underdog, the small sympathies were really there. And I think goldwaters were two, for that matter, but I was just in the bleachers watching at that time, but I did feel it should be resolved, and I started in the court system where it floundered for about 10 years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=806.0,897.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: during your period. Creative Services as Secretary of the Interior was a time of the transition for the conservation movement and thought in the United States, and it seemed as if your career at times, reflected the tensions between one, the old Pinchot style conservation based on scientific land management use, and two, a new emphasis on preservation of wild areas for esthetic and spiritual renewal, which I believe you expressed so well in the quiet crisis. What were your greatest challenge in resolving those those contradictions? Were you hampered at all by the power of the Bureau of Reclamation, and what kind of political mechanisms did you use to get compromised on some of those issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=898.0,941.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think I was fortunate to be where I was, in the chair department when the environmental when the conservation movement, was transformed, enlarged into the environmental movement, which is a more sophisticated movement, my thinking began to change when I read and digested Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring, and I remember Lyndon Johnson, of course, was great on bills. What bills have we passed? And so on. When they did my oral history for the university or the LBJ Library, I remember telling Joe France historian said, Well, Joe, there's all this emphasis on bills. Maybe the most important thing that we did in the 1960s was to orchestrate, when I say, help orchestrate, the beginnings of what is now called the environmental movement. And I really believe that I and my people did this, and out of this, we began to change. You know, the building of dams, the word now building big dams, or any dams, is over. That's an era passing. We sensed it was passing then. And the thing that I take the most credit for, because we originated the idea in my office, was the wild mess scenic rivers mill, that instead of building dams and damming every river like a staircase, that we ought to look at Rivers and have a balanced system and decide which cributaries, which rivers would be left in their natural free falling condition. Now that was a major change when I began in 1961 I was told by Kennedy's people read the billing speech. Well, the billing speech said, more down. So we made some changes. Stuart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=942.0,1071.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: with with the Bureau of Reclamation, a problem because they were very powerful agency.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1072.0,1079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I decided to keep Floyd dominant, very able man. We were friends for a long time. You know, sees me as a shame. Says so publicly. But you know who his great backers were, Carl Hager and Wayne Aspen, and it was like Kennedy reappointing Allen Dulles and her and J Edgar Hoover announcing that I did the same thing because I didn't, I didn't want to have a big fight with them, so I reappoint Floyd domini and Floyd recognized times were Changing. He's a pretty tough guy, but he's also sophisticated that I had to respond. He never came in and argued with me that I was crazy to push the wild and st rivers bill, although Aspinall, when I got President Johnson to put it in the State of the Union message 1965 he left the floor and told the member post was the craziest idea I've ever heard of leaving Riverside. So we had our","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1080.0,1149.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: arguments. Stuart as sort of following up a little bit on that. For you personally, did the emerging concept of ecology change the way you look at conservation? It's conservation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1150.0,1162.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It changed it changed your scope on it changed values. You know, the essence of the old conservation idea was you create a national park to create a welder, wildlife, it's safe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1163.0,1184.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Rachel Carson said there is nothing safe, noise pollution, encroachment and all the rest, and it was adding that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1185.0,1197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: element of. The totality of the environment, the air, the water, the wind, everything that you have to understand impacts and conflicts, otherwise you're not a good steward.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1198.0,1212.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, would you have described yourself as an environmentalist by the time you left public office? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1213.0,1219.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: hope I would be remembered as a leader.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1220.0,1227.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were there occasions when you clashed with Moe or other members of the delegation when you were Secretary of Interior because of your responsibilities to the President and to the American public more","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1228.0,1241.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: generally, certainly the the the dams in the Grand Canyon is the number one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1242.0,1249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: instance of that. Probably, if I thought I could think of some more. But the delegation, including my dear brother, with the frame of reference they were working from, you had to have the dams in the Grand Canyon. If you didn't, the project went down the drain, and it was, it was up to me, using the power of that office that I temporarily held to work out a way that we can save the project and have a project without the dams. But there are people in Arizona, some of the hydroelectric car people still hate my guts to this day, some of the old men those dams should have been built. You don't betray this story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1250.0,1300.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What would you say? Or have you said to Bill Martin or Bob young, since the cap was completed? Bill Martin, Bob Young, who are they? This was a question that was passed on by one of the Udall center people. I believe there were people I believe there were people involved with the interstate stream commission.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1301.0,1325.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, the there were, there were the hydroelectric people in Arizona who, I was one of their great supporters, the congressman rural, rural electrics, they would have been major beneficiaries if those dams had been built. In fact, the rare Arizona people said, well, the hell were you though I left Arizona building, but in order for Arizona building, they would have had to pass the law and get the president to sign it, to cede to them the right to do it. So they felt, for good reasons, that I had betrayed what they thought was Arizona's rural interest. Sort","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1326.0,1376.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: of want to jump back just a second, sort of a follow up on another question that we, that we discussed earlier, the Alaska Lands Act, did you and Mo consult it all during the years when he was forging that compromise and eventually, you know, resulted in the passage of the Alaska Lands Act, you know, the early interest that we you had in Alaska that we discussed earlier, did you and Mo talk, discuss, consult at all and he was engaged in that long process, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1377.0,1402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we did, because he's in the driver's seat. I mean, I'm gone now and so on, and he would occasionally call me about something specific, where he thought I knew more than he did, but I was essentially just applauding, encouraging him to hang in you know that that fight hung in the balance, and it was most persistence that sought to completion in a major way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1403.0,1440.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart during, during your many during your many years of public service, both as a congressman from 54 to 60 and Secretary of the Interior from 61 to 69 you had the opportunity to interact with many, many different individuals you know, who served for varying periods of time in the Arizona congressional delegation or in high state offices. What I was interested in, Would you, could you give some, just some brief thoughts or observations on some of these people? And I think you were already so we won't. One of the people had on my list was Senator Hayden. You've already sort of talked about him, just some your brief thoughts and impressions on Ernest McFarland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1441.0,1478.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, Mac was, was kind of an old shoe politician. He certainly wasn't able to stand up to bearing gold on it. Was really sort of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1479.0,1493.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: newer generation. And you. I I never had a very high opinion, in fact, to tell you the truth, he was kind of a dogged character. I campaigned with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1494.0,1516.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: him. He was a reasonably good governor for that time, I think, sort of remarkable that he rose to the top and became a majority leader in the United States Senate for two years. I was in Washington as a lawyer a few months before that election, and I found his staff and his people very arrogant that they couldn't they thought it was inconceivable that Arizona would elect this crazy businessman, Barry Goldwater, to replace the leader of the Senate here with Arizona with all this power, Carl Hayden. And yet, Mac, when you compared him with Lyndon Johnson, Mike Mansfield, these other people, he wasn't of their caliber.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1517.0,1576.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What about Paul Fannin as a senator and governor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1577.0,1580.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Paul wasn't very smart, and was, in my experience, didn't have the kind of grasp of things to be a real leader. I never saw him. He'd chime in, not lead the discussion","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1581.0,1601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and progressive Senator Deconcini, any thoughts, I know you really didn't work together with him, but families knew each other. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1602.0,1609.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he came along later. He was a disappointment to me as a senator, I don't know what Mark he left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1610.0,1631.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And Stuart, I may be going back a little too far, even for you, any thoughts or memories of Congressman Murdoch","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1632.0,1639.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, John Murdock Rhodes beat him. You know, in 52 he was still hanging around in Washington, or Ashurst was too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1640.0,1656.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Murdoch was a college professor in the background, a very pleasant, honest man,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1657.0,1665.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Claire angle of California and the California people on the interior committee in 1951 52 just ran circles around may have been they just had a vote that he didn't have, but he was a good man, and I think he represented Arizona","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1666.0,1685.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well, and the Congressman Rhodes, John Rhodes, senior,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1686.0,1691.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: John Rhodes and I were not only good friends, I had and have great respect for his judgment, his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1692.0,1705.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: hewing to his convictions. Very, very wonderful person to work with. I think the real test John Rhodes is that his colleagues liked him to be the Minority Leader of the House of Representatives, and I think if it hadn't have been for,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1706.0,1731.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I agree with Jonathan, hadn't have been for Watergate, the Republicans probably would have taken control of the House, certainly in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was elected. But John had he was a moderate Republican. He was not an ideologue. That's what made him so effective. I wonder what he thinks of being rich,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1732.0,1761.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that being interested question to ask him. There were a few other people Stuart who served for shorter periods of time, and I'm not sure how much interaction you had, but it would, you know? One would be Sam Steiger.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1762.0,1777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, Sam was kind of a he was kind of a bomb thrower, very outspoken Mo. Mo used to handle Sam Saigon with humor. He had a rather short career. And I think he's more of this new Gingrich, great Republican actually is going to change the world overnight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1778.0,1810.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What about George center?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1811.0,1813.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, Duke center was not there, very, very long, and he was easy to work with, but not heavy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1814.0,1827.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, jumping back again to sort of a more general, a more general question. Many people, I think rightfully so, believe that your book, The quiet crisis was a very important book, along with Rachel Carson's Silent Spring into helping initiate the modern environmental movement. How do you think environmental movement, conservation activism, and conservation ideology have changed since your time as Secretary of Interior?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1828.0,1856.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, the the thing that I find most satisfying is that the environmental movement has changed the way people view their environment, changed the way that we view the world. It is a major national issue. It's going to be because it concerns understanding the balance of nature and the future of the world. It's a very big, powerful, permanent part of our lives, and I take a great deal of satisfaction and feeling that 30 or 35 years ago, you know, we were there at the beginning, helped move it alone. It may be that some people are 100 years ago or 15 if 50, give me more credit for helping initiate environmental concepts and ideas and moving them along than for other things. Stuart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1857.0,1940.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sort of following up a little bit on the same question, one of the things that there have been, there are a great number of different environmental groups kept coming into being and into existence. In addition, in addition to, you know, some groups that are always been around a long time, like the Sierra Club, the Audubon Society and others, there have been, a spade a whole spade, of organizations that have come up, sometimes, often on a regional or local level, on a national level. One thinks of Earth First, you know, where there have been dramatic confrontations, styles utilized, you know, any any thoughts on some of the different strategies between the older, more traditional environmental groups and then some of the ones that sprang up after the 60s with a very different kind of ism sort of out there, you know, laying down in front of trucks and spiking trees and and and doing other things with a very different strategy than than the larger, older group tended to, tended to carry out. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1941.0,1991.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think it's inevitable with all of the facets the conservation movement, the old conservation movement was quite tidy in a way, parks, wildlife,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=1992.0,2007.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: these categories and the environmental values. Environmental thinking spawned different groups with different goals, some of them short term, some of them trying to stop things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2008.0,2026.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The old conservation movement was all positive. That's the reason my tenure. Almost everything we did in the 1960s was popular. Some of the arguments, clashes that grew later were inevitable, in my opinion. I think the effort people who were worried about radiation to stop nuclear projects is sort of emblematic of these new larger concerns, where people are not just interested in doing something that's good, but I'm stopping things that they consider bad. But I think that's inevitable. It was part of the evolution of this wide ranging new concept.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2027.0,2079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart. I'm gonna take a break now for a second. I think this tapes about to run out, and I'll take a break now for a second. Stuart, I had another, another question I wanted to ask you. I. Of a more general nature, sort of summing up some of the broad based conservation environmental issues we've been discussing. Tom power, who's an economics professor at the University of Montana, has a new book out called Lost landscapes and failed economies. And Tom, who is a former professor of mine when I was at the University of Montana, argues in this new book is just out, the old extractive economy based on mining and agriculture and ranching is dying, and economic prosperity with grace will grace only those communities that preserve their landscapes and learn to profit from them. Respectfully, that's a very gross, general summarization of many issues he discusses in that book. I was wondering if you'd had a chance to look at that book or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2080.0,2151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I haven't. There are interesting new books coming out now. There's there's one on the Columbia River. Well, one was written by a journalist, you know, the historian, Richard Lyons. Richard has written a monolog. Apparently, that's in a book on the the Miss, mistakes with over development, everything on the dams on the Columbia River, and how that happened, what the thinking of people was. This is a little bit jarring, but it's inevitable. And I think some of the younger historians and students who are looking at it to see things that are coming at us and see changes. But I still, as much as I have negative feelings about mining and some of the other extractive industries. I cooperated on a lot of the Columbia River matters, and we saw this as a good thing, the destruction of the salmon runs. I'm appalled. What was done, what I was involved with, and the degree to which we just blandly shove the real problems out of the Rod","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2152.0,2246.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stewart you'd mentioned earlier, and in this connection, sort of following up again on this, on this last question, when you look at Arizona in relationship to some of the thoughts that Tom power presents In his new book, The percentage of people employed by the ranching industry in Arizona the mining industry has obviously been a dramatic decline for a long, you know, for a long time. And, you know, as we speak today, you know, in Arizona, and I'm sure it's true in New Mexico, also, the percentage of people involved, you know, that's earning their living from those things, has dropped dramatically. Do you think there, you know, is, is hope for this kind of a movement to eco tourism is part of this, you know? I mean,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2247.0,2292.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I see it, I come at it from a little different angle, because I just wrote a letter that's been used in the Idaho Senate race. You know, Idaho senator is the leader of the defenders in the mining law of 1872 which I'm campaigning to remove, and he is the point man for the mining industry. And he says, Idaho is a mining state. We had a study done our organization by the Montana Congress, less than 1% of the income. Now, mining state, what were you talking about? Of course, Boise is growing like Tucson, like Phoenix and so on. It's a corporate center and so on. And Arizona, when I became a congressman, the cliche at that time was the thing that drives Arizona as the four","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2293.0,2354.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: C's cattle going down cotton, cotton cotton, citrus, sorry, gone. What was the other copper? So you have, you have a change. And the the the new things that are replacing it, what's in Tucson, what's in Phoenix. We don't need to discuss that's very obvious, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2355.0,2387.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the quality of life of Arizona rest on whether, not only is the air clean and the water. Are available, but the great glory of Arizona is now the doors. So we have Buenos Aires, so we have these other things, and if they begin to be destroyed, then I get worried about, I get concerned about too much growth and population. Those problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2388.0,2428.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, one of the organizations that mo served some time was the chairman of a while was the land Law Review Commission, and they had made him, this is a long time ago now, 20 years ago or more, they had made a number of, you know, very revolutionary suggestions regarding, you know, planning, community planning, and a wide range of things, in the context of some of the statements you just made. How do you see communities moving in this direction and and being able, I think in Arizona is in Arizona is a good example. In Tucson, you have neighborhood associations that are very powerful and both both in all economic areas. You know both the web very well to do folks in the foothills, but as well as some of the middle class neighborhoods, these organizations swing a lot of weight with the City Council I'm the county commissioners. I've been involved in a few phrase myself. Is the problem more and in Phoenix you have a very, very different, you know, just continuing, massive growth, more roads building further and further out, part of, part of the problem with Phoenix and Tucson. The difference is the geography, because the geography in Tucson limits that to some degree, which in Phoenix doesn't, is, are these going to have to be changes that are made in the state legislature, or is it do something you see occurring? It's going to have to occur at the at the local community level, in the city councils and the county commissioners offices. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2429.0,2512.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I share your enthusiasm and constant feelings about the the growth of neighborhood associations and groups who speak up front page in the Mexican today. Canadian company has some mineral leases. They want to open a copper mine about 30 miles from Santa Fe Public Meeting. People are raising hell. Universally, they don't want it. And what dismays me about Phoenix, you, you reach a certain size, and it's no longer possible, apparently, for voices to speak up saying, this the wrong kind of growth. Let's slow down. Let's have more control. We've started a new organization, Conservancy, care and Senator had extraordinary success. Of course, we're going to be safe. We're running out of water. That's important. But there are all kinds of political organizations that are out there today that are trying to raise questions about, what does this do to the quality of life? What do we have if we allow certain types of growth? And I think that's inevitable. It's very healthy, and maybe out of all of this arguing and discussion, there will be the right or better. So I never, I never expected in my lifetime to see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2513.0,2617.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart. I'm going to take a break there, because I think my tapes about to run out. I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358#t=2618.0,2620.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270358/transcript/78736/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/736/original/azu_ms396-060_side1_a.vtt?1745254318","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/736/original/azu_ms396-060_side1_a.vtt?1745254318"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 5 - azu_ms396-060_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2623.512,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/359/original/azu_ms396-060_side2_a.mp3?1744848014","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2623.512,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So Stuart, following up, I was something you mentioned a few minutes ago that that sparked an interest in me, and that was the 1872 mining act. Could you talk a little bit more? Is this an organization? Is this a personal thing? If you are you going to try and expand this into a national issue where hopefully Congress would be the ones who have to make the modifications on this. Are you hoping to move this in that direction","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1.0,27.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we have this organization was organized 10 years ago. I'm been the chairman of it. It's a small group, but we were raising a million dollars a year from foundations. We've had our ups and downs. Our main goal is to get Congress to amend this law and put royalties in environmental protection. And if we can regain control of the Senate, and if this Idaho Senator should be defeated. I'm going to campaign against there'll be a letter that I wrote in Idaho states for the main newspaper next Sunday. We think we're on the verge of getting changes, but it's Western senators, conservative Western senators, who are willing to fight to maintain the old law, which is ridiculous, no royalties, no environmental controls, nothing. It's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=28.0,88.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: fits the 1872 mining act when I was reading things in both your papers and Mo's paper. I mean, clearly it's one. It's one of those laws that has been on the book so long and has been in need of reform for a long, long time. And sir, what was the name? Is it the name of this organization,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=89.0,106.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: mineral Policy Center, based in Washington, going back to the next","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=107.0,120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: board meeting, we're in there for the long haul. We thought we had a compromise bill. Two and a half years ago in Boston, we got a vote to amend the law. Pretty good bill two and a half years ago in the house, by a three to one margin, with Mr. Gingrich voting for the bill","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=121.0,150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart. Any any any thoughts on on President Clinton's recent designation of the new national monuments in Utah, which I guess has caused an uproar amongst the Utah politicians?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=151.0,160.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=161.0,163.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Clinton is, I hope he changes, does a lot of good things. Everything's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=164.0,171.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: political","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=172.0,176.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: benefits are calculated this idea of the National Monument I've been kicking around people as a way to jar the thing off debt center in Utah the last three, four","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=177.0,195.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: years. Isn't it true Stuart, that some of the outrage at President Clinton's executive Act actually came from out of out of state, mining companies that you know that potentially were going to move into those areas. Oh, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=196.0,214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but I got President Johnson. Two of the Proclamations he signed when you were talking but I told the governor about it when I got the Senator to agree to support any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=215.0,226.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: thoughts about the upcoming presidential election?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=227.0,229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, it looks like Clinton is going to win big, and I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=230.0,235.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: have hopes that on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=236.0,238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: environmental issues, he'll be a good president in the Secretary to cause to face. One of the things we're hoping he'll do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=239.0,245.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: is put mining Law Reform up at the top of the list. If","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=246.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: President Clinton is re elected, Stuart, obviously, it'll be his last term. He doesn't have to worry about running again. Do you think this may signify some changes, or some willingness on his part to go a little bit further on, some of these things when he doesn't have to keep politics at the top of his head. I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=250.0,267.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: going to show you to read, and I will when you turn the machine off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=268.0,273.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Article I've written that I'm going to submit to the New York Times as an op ed piece, and the title of it is, what will the Democrats do with their victories?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=274.0,285.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, you think the Democrats have good shot at retaining control of the House and the Senate. I mean, excuse me, getting control back of the House and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=286.0,294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: the Senate. I have my own reservations about the. Democrats lost the house, and I put that in this article, but I think,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=295.0,306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think there's going to be surprise. I'm a student of this at a distance. I think they're going to win both House and the Senate. Shock a lot of people, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean that they're not going to face very tough problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=307.0,320.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, I want to jump back to mo a little bit. We were talking earlier, before we started taping, about Mo's declining health over the last couple terms in Congress and some of the problems that emerged with staff, perhaps taking a few more liberties, you know, with getting things done, and probably, I think, maybe with good motivation. But could you talk a little bit about that, and some of your your efforts to talk with Mo about retirement?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=321.0,352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=353.0,355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the last six years his decline,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=356.0,362.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: his capacity was so great, and he was his ability to take a bill to the floor command the attention of the house. When you saw that waning, it worried you, and I was interested in seeing him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=363.0,381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: quit. Before","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=382.0,382.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: his powers withered away and he wouldn't do it. I first started working","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=383.0,391.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 1964 I guess it was when Bruce Wright, now with the University of Arizona, was his administrative assistant. Bruce said, Make it your last term, though, and I joined in with him, but he didn't. He waited too long. He didn't want to consider quitting. It was a shame, in a way, because he could have had it. He could have gone back to Tucson and had things to do. We tried to tell him that, but he just was like a person in the ocean. Tone of life, preservative. He just held on to that congressional career congressional seat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=392.0,435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: The longer he went on, the harder it was to get him to discuss it. We have he never appreciated,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=436.0,451.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sir, why do you think that was the job in Congress had become the most important, important thing in Moe's life? And he just, he just, he was so into it, and so involved with it, and, you know, dedicated and hard working at he just didn't want to give it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=452.0,466.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: up. Well, there are, there are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=467.0,469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: congressmen and senators strong Trent. We have a senator here, Domenici and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=470.0,475.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Goldwater wasn't that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=476.0,480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: They reach a point in their lives they can't conceive life not being a senator or congressman, it apparently looks to them as something that would be depressing. They would lose this power and respect that they have. But of course, if you don't quit and you go on beyond your time, you lose respect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=481.0,509.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, do you think this happened somewhat to Carl Hayden, also in his last term with, I don't know, because I wasn't around, but he, you know, appeared increasingly frail in the last years of his term with the same thing go on. Well, he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=510.0,523.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: his his metal powers were declining, but he still had enough of his health. He didn't go home to campaign. 1962, he never went. Reason he didn't is that people would have been shocked by his appearance. He couldn't give a speech. Of course, he never did. Speech making was not one of his strengths,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=524.0,551.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=552.0,554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: that was that was part of that was part of the whole thing with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=555.0,560.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: coral, but Mo,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=561.0,568.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you know, it's not only different than athletics when you see","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=569.0,574.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a great athlete and Moe is certainly A great congressman, and their powers begin to decline.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=575.0,583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: There's no time to quit. Most of them do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=584.0,588.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I just, I just felt that he was harming his reputation, and people were looking on him with pity and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=589.0,599.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That Stuart, I want to jump up to younger generation. There's another group of Udalls who is becoming involved in politics, your son, Tom, who has run for office and is now currently Attorney General of New Mexico, and Mo's son who is running for the state senate. I believe in Colorado,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=600.0,622.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I just went up and campaigned for him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=623.0,623.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: this fall, and I sent him up some old bumper stickers. He asked for some stuff to design. You know, designing bumper stickers, it looks like there's going to be another generation of Udalls involved in public service. Any thoughts, advice you'd give to them. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=624.0,646.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you know you, you transmit. That is my wife and I never push our two children,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=647.0,656.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: who are lawyers, to become lawyers. We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=657.0,659.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: thought they ought to my wife stronger than I am, let them find their own way, and we didn't push Tom into politics. He's made a fine record. He's got the right sense of what public service is all about, some honesty and candor, and Mark seems to have the same attitude. Mo's oldest son,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=660.0,685.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: and I wouldn't have you know, they're in their mid 40s. I started 34 Mars. Mo started when he went to county Trent. I guess he was 30,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=686.0,697.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but I'm glad to see this Trent Orson this continue. You know, it isn't an easy life, and it's tough. Sometimes. I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=698.0,710.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I admire the tenacity of these younger people that dare to get into politics these days with money being so important and with them","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=711.0,721.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: with so much harsh rhetoric.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=722.0,724.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, I just had a couple more questions before we close off. Some of this came out of some of the discussions we were having earlier, before we started taping. There were two first ladies that you had close friendships with, Jacqueline Kennedy and Lady Bird Johnson, could you talk a little bit about your relationship with them? Certainly, Lady Bird Johnson, the relationship was a little different, I think, than with Jacqueline Kennedy, and she was very, very active in conservation issues of one sort or another. Could you, could you talk about that a little well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=725.0,757.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=758.0,761.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: My association with Lady Bird Johnson was very intimate. We did a lot of things together. We formed a friendship.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=762.0,772.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: She may have saved my job, I don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=773.0,775.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: know, but I'm very fond of her. She we used to sit on the plane, and she asked me questions about the environmental movement and so on. And she had in her, out of her childhood, a love and interest in nature and natural beauty and so on. And I was glad to be able to work with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=776.0,803.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: her and have her help on things. My relationship with Jacqueline Onassis was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=804.0,808.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: completely different. Most of this was after the White House and our correspondence I've interviewed today","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=809.0,819.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: copies of the letters of the exchange. My wife","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=820.0,824.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: understood we're born and almost anywhere Rhino, and she was a marvelous person, a real,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=825.0,832.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wonderful, unique person. We were lucky in the last 10 years","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=833.0,839.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: to have a warm and intimate relationship that we haven't advertised very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=840.0,845.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: much. Stuart, I want to end with just sort of talking again about something going way back in time, but talking about something we were talking about earlier when we were viewing some of your files, your great grandfather, Mr. Lee, and the mountain meadows massacre you were telling me about, and I'd like to try and put some of this on tape about this effort on your part and others to bring together members of the Mormon families and members of the surviving families of the Fancher wagon train. Could you talk a little bit about that? Well, I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=846.0,878.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: told you today I'm going to provide files. It was one of the most poignant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=879.0,889.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: experiences of my life. This, the word is reunion, this coming together of these families. It's took 133 years. A lot of people filled with legitimate bitterness had to die before it happened. But it did happen, and it was a wonderful experience. I guess the best expression of what I felt is a poem that I wrote and that was read at the meeting at Cedar City, Utah, where we had, in effect, 132 years later, a memorial service for people","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=890.0,935.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: who were slaughtered, tragically. So the record is there the papers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=936.0,942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think this will end this here and again. Stuart, I want to thank you for taking the time this afternoon through my mechanical breakdowns and other things to get some of your thoughts on tape, and we will end this recording session now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=943.0,955.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm glad I'm still lucid. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=956.0,967.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Is 1025, 96 resuming a little follow up with Stuart Udall in his office in Santa Fe from the previous day. Stuart, could you describe, reassess, evaluate your role in Mo's presidential campaign of 1976 particularly as regards political strategy and the personal relationship between you two?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=968.0,995.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: Well, there's probably a lot of documents in his presidential papers throw a light on my role. I was I was well, I wasn't reluctant. Once he decided to do it and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=996.0,1016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they began getting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1017.0,1017.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: started, he had these young people, Terry grace, he was one of them on his staff who were pushing him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1018.0,1028.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: They had a lot of ideas,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1029.0,1032.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: and they thought Moe needed a senior presence, and of course, with my background to provide them. They asked me to be campaign manager. And actually there were several campaign managers, but one person who ought to be talked about, talked to on this subject to Stanley Kurz, who was most friend. And Stanley kind of became disillusioned through the cafe the way Moe didn't take his advice so on that was very loyal. So I was brought in and took the picture. I remember I met went with Moe to Tucson, where he had his first fundraiser. I think you raised $30,000 as you roll your home base. We had that session, and then we he wisely used that money to hire two fellows in San Francisco who were experts of that day in writing letters, I think they were time or live for others. It was supposed to be the best around. And he began building this very valuable mailing list by mailing letters to groups, the direct mail technique, which I didn't know much about them, although I worked with them, and I ultimately ended up writing the letters, which was probably one of the most valuable things that I did for the campaign. But as it moved along, you know, I went to Iowa, I made trips. I was making a very substantial sacrifice, because I was having to give up. I was making my living. Then. This is 7475 substantially for lecture. Had to give up some of my opportunities, but I went into some states, and then I ended up having arguments with these young gunners who were the strategists. And one of my arguments, which I lost, was over Iowa, because it turned out I had gone to Iowa in the summer, and we had two of George governs, key people, and they didn't they were supposed to know how to do it. They didn't do what they were supposed to do. And it suddenly turned out that Carter had been living out there and and others had been working in Iowa. And you see McGovern pie. Neared Iowa in 1972 and no delegates were selected. This was the first phase of caucuses, but with the help of the media and the political writers, this was elevated, as we see today, into a major event. And I said, Well, no delegates are being selected. We were the polls showed we were running fifth. I said, Why are we spending money? Why is mall going to go there? And I remember one of them told me, he said, Well, Johnny Apple. I said, Why is it important? They said, well, Johnny Apple, the New York Times and Dave Broder and the television people, if they're there, it's important, even though no delegates are selected because I favored cutting mole loose Scoop Jackson walked around just pulling out and going to New Hampshire. And then one of my, one of my other major things, I contributed, remember this very well because I went in early December to Massachusetts, and we had a fellow he later became by a political operator, Paul Tilley, that was there and and I talked to this young state senator who was later a congressman. I forget his name. And he said, he said, I'm sorry to tell you, this is early December, with the Massachusetts primary in late February. And he said, the Udall campaign is an amorphous mess that there really wasn't much going on. So I went to I went to see, this was one of my successes. Guys who were supposedly the best political operating firm in Massachusetts. John Martello was one of those people. They had run successful campaigns, and they liked Mo and they agreed to take over. In fact, they later sort of took over the whole media campaign. They were very good, but they were also, this is where I encountered these new Hot Shot media people and handlers, and they would raise the money and spend it. And Stan Kurz, the treasurer at that point, he and I were beginning to see that you lost control, even though I was writing the letters, the direct mail. And mo had a very loyal group that believed in him, and we would send out a letter. Well, this was every two weeks after the campaign really got underway in January, and we would get back $80,000 under the matching scheme which Mo was one of the authors of in Congress, that would be 160,000 then we could keep going. These other candidates didn't have a direct mail list. It was rather extraordinary, because here was Sergeant Shriver, the Kennedy family. He run as vice president McGovern. He's in the field. The Kennedys deserted him, and he didn't prove to be a very good campaigner. Senator Harris, prominent and actual party, Burch by and who were the others they were. They were all in there, and it looked like mole is a junior member of the House, that he was going to be the first one knocked out of the race, and of course, he stayed in all the way because he had the determination. He had this. He had the money. We were coming in with 160,000 every two weeks, let's say. But these Massachusetts people, I didn't have a lot to do with the New Hampshire campaign. These organizers and most real campaign managers, they were, they had that staked out and very well organized. They were running this canvassing system again. This is following the McCarthy McGovern pattern, and, but I was heavily involved in Massachusetts and and Mo even, even before he had begun to to run strong. This is, this is before New Hampshire primary, see Massachusetts called a week later, Archibald Cox, who was a friend of mine and I, he was more my friend than most. He agreed to be to come out from home. We did add a. These Massachusetts people designed ran in the New York Times where you'd run an ad and say, Cox leaves and MO You go send, cut, clip the coupon and send your money in. And it made money. But when it got to the showdown in Massachusetts, I juices. Mo had had something that showed his real strength at the end. Quantity thing the town and gown. He had a picture that had press conference. Archibald Cox on one side, Tip O'Neill on the other side. Tip O'Neill, at that time, was the the junior majority leader in in the house, and he looked he liked them all. He was soon to become the speaker and and it looked like maybe we, we had it made. In fact, Carter ran forth. The media didn't pay much attention to this. They could pick Carter. Here's the winner. He's on Time Magazine and everything else the next week. But he ran forth in Massachusetts. But Scoop Jackson had walked around Iowa and New Hampshire and put all of his effort into Massachusetts, with a lot of help from the labor unions. And so he won that one, not by a big margin, never lost, and so on, but it the the way the thing came out, I was supposed to go on the payroll. Mo promised me that I never did. And that meant that my, because I had counted on having some kind of income, that I was hurting bad as it went alone, and then as it got more frantic. Uh, Moe was paying less attention to me and to Stanley kurz. I mean, I was writing these letters, and I was doing a lot of this. I was with him in New York and so on, their photographs and so on. But it was, it was quite an experience. And we went to Wisconsin, where he just narrowly lost. What was his startling was Michigan. He didn't have much money. Then he was appealing to the labor unions and so on. Almost beat Carter there. Both of those were very exciting nights. And considering that these other candidates were dropping out, and he was the standard bearer of the liberal wing of the party, which we would call it progressive, as he just hung in and stayed in all the way to the end, I was involved too, because Henry Kimmelman, a close friend of mine, was one of Frank Church's close friends, and when Frank decided to get in, Henry was one of his key advisors, we sort of worked out A system where we backed out of Oregon and Nebraska church, many kids beginning there and then, we were unhappy because we felt he should have backed out of Ohio, but it wasn't in the cards. They'll say, Why did, why did mo stay in? I think he stayed in because we weren't sure of Jimmy Carter. What is this guy all about? You know, Trent campaigner, the way he had banned all this energy for two years and used his family and so on. But was he, was he really a Democrat? What was he going to do? And feelings got rather strained between Mo and Carter. They later patched it up, but I sort of when he lost, and finally, in Ohio, the whole thing ended up in a heap. I was kind of the bottom of the heap because I put all this time in. I hadn't gotten anything out of it, but bruises and the satisfaction brother. So we could go on and on. Some of it is in the papers, and if you ever want to go through his presidential campaign papers and come back to me and refresh my memory? I could give you some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1033.0,1787.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: answers. That's fine. Stuart, another question, Could you summarize briefly your feelings concerning the uranium miners in the down Winder cases after some of. Years of personal involvement. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1788.0,1801.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: I am, I have summarized my views of the lawsuits, and there's not as much of my own personal experience in it as I should have put maybe in my book of August, in those chapters, but this was, again, a kind of nature, going back to your roots. Mo and I were trial lawyers, plaintiffs lawyers, after after the 1976 election, for the first time, I went into full time law practice in Washington. It wasn't very fulfilling. I was frustrated making money. I made more money in a year or two there. I had before, but I just wasn't satisfied with it. And when the the some of my relatives in Utah, Mormon relatives, called and said, would I stop by and talk to them that there looked like looked like there was too much cancer. And so I got involved in that, and I was involved with teams of lawyers, other lawyers, I also, but I took as my main case, and I became the main lawyer, and that was the last case that I tried as a trial lawyer. Was the Navajo that became case,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1802.0,1900.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but it was a lost cause. All of these cases the federal government, under this government immunity doctrine, the judges were all had their minds made up, most of them when they went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1901.0,1917.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: in court. And it was quite a depressing experience, because for about eight years, I was involved in preparing and losing these lawsuits and then this Radiation Exposure Compensation Act, which I was very skeptical, Congress won't do anything in the beginning, when I was very depressed that this whole thing was going to end up as a dry hole, as an empty as a black hole, and so it finally turned around. They passed this legislation. I'm still working now, 18 years later, helping Navajos and other clients of mine qualified into this program. So was an interesting experience, but when we moved from Phoenix over here in 1989 I felt a little bit like Job, and it was almost as though somebody had said, well, the old man suffered enough, let's give him good years. And had some good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1918.0,1987.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: years, Stuart, could you briefly evaluate your impressions regarding the impacts or lack of impacts of some of your successors in the position of Secretary of Interior, with particular reference to people such as Wally Hickel, Rogers, Martin James Watt and Bruce Bavin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=1988.0,2010.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: Well, to express judgments, I've been sort of reluctant. I'm not going to be reluctant here today to publicly criticize any of my successors, because history sets a stage. And as I look back, the time that I came in was just ideal, because we had presidents. President Kennedy started out wanted to do more, and we had exciting things like the learn this bill, and then we developed the wild rivers bill and enlargement of the national park system, seashores, endangered species, all of these things in the beginning of the environmental movement made it a very exciting period. What that period swept on through to into the 1970s Nixon is given credit and deserves some credit for being a good environmental president. Actually, it's like a surfer the way was coming in, and I said, Well, he said, What's this all about? And they said, Well, looks like it's important and it's permanent ride the wave. And so John Ehrlichman, another. I've never talked to her. They advised him to make it an issue. He said, This is the environmental decade now. They acted as though it just began. They were the ones that initiated it, but so Hickel is a phony. He gathered up some papers and took him to the Attorney General and tried to have me indicted. Publicity, the press sort of ignored it, because they had such a high opinion of me in Washington, what I've done. He is essentially a developer. He showed that later. Showed it all his life, really. He likes big things, you know, that's let's open up the wildlife refuge, let's sell the natural gas, let's sell coal and minerals to Japan and Asia and so on. He's never really a conservationist, and the guy that was his nemesis in Alaska, who really was with Jay Hammond, who was governor two times, wonderful","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2011.0,2167.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: man that I lied. I had I didn't know Nixon, but I told Robert Finch, who was one of his top people. When Nixon came in, I said, Bob, the want to say something to you, the the we've taken the Western","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2168.0,2189.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: label of the Interior Department. See, I had brought the water pollution program to interior. It had been there for two and a half years. We had the national seashores, we had just spread our wings, and we the care department had a stake all over the country. And I said, Why don't you tell the President that the Secretary doesn't need to be actually, I was pulling an oar for Rogers Martin, and he said, Well, who would you pick if you're not going to be a Western I said, Well, we look at Rogers Martin. He was a Congressman from Kentucky, able guy Moe and I both liked him, and good conservationist, and not a partisan. He always supported me, and so Hickel betrayed Nixon. Nixon fired him and brought Martin in. And Martin was the one person. The first thing he wanted to do was talk to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2190.0,2252.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Nixon asked me about the department, what to do, and he made a pretty good mark as a secretary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2253.0,2261.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: I give him quite good marks. Cleppi Martin got cancer died. Cleppi came in under General President Ford. He was a Congressman from North Dakota, nice fella. He was sort of a caretaker. He wasn't there long enough to make much of a mark. So I don't have much negative or positive to say about it. Cecil Andrus, who came in under Carter, was a strong Secretary, made a good record. He kept me at arm's length, as the Carter people did, generally. Carter was this new, new Democrat. They didn't want an umbilical card to the Roosevelt or Truman or Kennedy or Johnson administrations and so. But I would, I would put Morton and Andres, maybe Andres a little ahead of Martin in terms of performance. Of course, a lot is a disaster, and I've discussed him in the quiet crisis,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2262.0,2335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and the next generation Don Hodel","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2336.0,2340.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: who succeeded them, and was an electric power person from has been with the Bonneville Power Administration. He was more than a caretaker. But you look when they get through and say, Well, what did they do or their new policies that were made? I mean, that's the way I judge presidents or other people. Did they break new ground? Did they create new policies? Did they make major decisions? And it's hard to see, because, of course, Reagan didn't want to do very much. He hired a friend of mine. We'd known in California, I guess he'd been in his government. The old boy's name is the head of the Park Service, and he's absolutely frustrated because there was no money to do anything new. And Reagan. Didn't want anything, unless you did it in California. Babette, it's too early to say. I just kind of have a gut feeling that he's going to move on. May only have four years there, but he inherited the horrible situation. I'm inclined to judge him lenient. I have a file on that that I've kept and probably will ultimately go in, should go in my papers. I'm not so much expressing judgments on him. Made some votes. I think he had a bad hand because of the time, but I think he misplayed it to some degree. If he does stay on, I'm hoping that he has a better second term. But Clinton hasn't treated me well. You know, I had, I ran my own show and had a lot of authority in my day, even compared with other camera members and Clinton on big issues, doesn't use that. It's Yellowstone Park. They just did the monument in southern Utah. Some of that. It's people worked on it. But he was not, he was not the architect of it like I was in my day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2341.0,2487.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart in quiet crisis. You you in describing Teddy Roosevelt, you said quote, Teddy Roosevelt was a man with distance in his eyes. End. Quote, could you explain exactly what you meant by that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2488.0,2503.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: What I meant with that, by that phrase, and I may have picked it up, borrowed it somewhat somewhere. I don't know his foresight, that he was looking down the road. And that's the essence of conservation, conservation movement is your responsibility to future generations, your responsibility to establish patterns of stewardship that will prevail. I have very mixed, mixed feelings about 10 euros well now, both as a President and as a person, but in launching the conservation movement, he was tremendous. He deserves a lot of credit,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2504.0,2554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Stuart, considering your long time of public service and Mo's and those of other Arizonans such as John Rhodes and Carl Hayden. Do you think there is, there is an Arizona approach to policy making?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2555.0,2570.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I, I don't, I wouldn't say that. You know, the thing that all of us worked on that damn water project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2571.0,2584.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Barry Goldwater and Carl Hayden were two of the 12 senators that voted against the woman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359#t=2585.0,2592.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270359/transcript/78737/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: I remembered that. But a few weeks ago, I was going through something. I was startled both Hayden and Goldwater 6464 of course, Mo then converted very back to the movement, and they did a lot. But I think to say that Moe and I either were influenced by or had influence, and that there was some kind of Arizona approach. 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After all, he was a leading Republican in the leadership echelon, even before he became the minority leader. And I had this experience a year ago, last winter when they shut the government down and Governor Simonton in Arizona was going to trying to take over the Grand Canyon and keep it open. Reporter called me from Phoenix, and I told him what a national park was. And I said, have you talked to John Rhodes? He did talk to him, and John said the same thing that I did, that there was no way, unless she changed the law, that Arizona could operate an actual Park. But I just have more. And I both had a lot of personal affection with Rose and a mutual respect is quite remarkable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1.0,66.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, as we look ahead in the next century, conservation and sustainable growth emerges, as you know, I think two significant themes. How do you think the country can address these in the coming decades. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=67.0,84.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yes, you're asking me that long essay or a book on that subject, and I think about it a lot of time, a lot of the time, of course, wore into that are hanging over it ominously. Is population growth and and I thought for nearly 30 years now, going back to Paul Eric's book, which may have been overwritten the population law that you can't have sustainable policies. You can't look far into the future carrying forward the policies that were suitable for a modest world population or national population, and that growth brings a whole new set of problems, just as Phoenix today has from a social standpoint, from an environmental standpoint, it's a different place with a whole different set of problems, and the Dynamo of growth is just driving this on and on. Appalled, but I think this United Nations Conference that they held three, four years ago in Brazil, this Earth Summit, where you had people coming from a lot of the nations in the world to talk about it, and they came out with the theme, theme, and then the sustainable goals was what was needed is sort of an intellectual conclusion. The world isn't doing much about the greenhouse effect, the greenhouse problem. We'll see how that plays out. It may be overstated, but the fascinating thing is that Rachel Carson's book, which to me is kind of a well screen or source, is about as ostensibly about birds and poisoning the birds. And yet you go back and read it now, and the worldwide implications are there, because if we have to have more food to feed people, and this means we have to have all kinds of poisons and everything else, and they get into the bloodstream. You know, the problems are enormously complicated. And what she said is, you're not saving anything unless you understand the side effects. And we're seeing that now with the leftover products. Radiation, Nuke, the most wonderful nuclear world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=85.0,270.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, also in the quiet crisis 63 wrote, America stands poised on a pinnacle of wealth and power, yet we live in a land of vanishing beauty, of increasing ugliness, of shrinking open space and of an overall environment that is diminished daily by pollution and noise and flight. 30 years later, if you were to rewrite this passage over for a new addition of quiet crisis, what would you say? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=271.0,296.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the. The same problems are there. Of course, I was trying, some might say I was being overdramatic, trying to dramatize the shortcomings. The big growth machine was already underway. You know, the philosophy in the 1950s was that pollution was a local problem. The national government had no business getting into it. That was the philosophy in the Eisenhower administration, until Senator musking got this water pollution program going, where the federal government put up half the money to build sewage plants all over the country. A lot of the rivers were a mess, and the situation has changed. It's changed in our awareness. It's changed in the programs that we have, but there's still a lot of activities going on. You know, air pollution hasn't gone away in a lot of these big cities, and the growth pressures are still there, but we do have the values that the environmental movement has brought into the thinking of the nation. Anything that's proposed now is usually questioned sharply by some people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=297.0,381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, I had one last question. In evaluating Mo's career as a legislature with an enormous quantity of environmental legislation that he was involved with, both directly and indirectly, what do you think were Moe's great strengths as a congressman, seeking compromise and building consensus to get some of that legislation passed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=382.0,401.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, he was a very skillful, persuasive, eloquent spokesman for the conservation cause. One of the reasons he was able to get as much done as he did to be involved and then emerge as a leader, was that he stood by his convictions, but he also had this wonderful way of being reasonable with his opponents, making him laugh and so on. That was very valuable, but if we have a memorial service when dies, one of the things that seems that I'm going to mention is that he was a reformer. Of course, any conservationist pursuing those policies, reformer, but he was, he was a reformer as a lawyer, in terms of legal system, he deserves a lot of credit for their reforms, which have now been corrupted, financing, elections and so on. And that was, that was a theme in his life. I think, I think I had some of that too, is that the world's changing. You have to change institutions. He also had a boldness, and I expressed some of that in my in my interview or conversation with Senator Goldwater. You know, he and he did it with such a flair and so fearlessly when he gave that speech with regard to being that more and went home and took it on, very few members of Congress dared to do that. He dared and he did other things that were daring, and that was, that was part of his makeup. He would have made a hell of a leader in the House, if he could have, he could have forced the door, you know, he tried twice. It's interesting when you look back now, what I've just written for the New York Times says, Look, Democrats should look at what Gingrich did. The Speaker's office ought to be powerful. That's under the really the right interpretation of constitution. And most all this, his willingness to challenge this the old speaker, McCormick, yeah, here's this kid. He's been there eight years. He's a junior congressman. He's the chairman of the committee, and he challenges in Congress that took guts and self confidence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=402.0,578.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, when I actually have one more question that you brought up with in your in your answer to the last one, when, when mo made this speech in Tucson in 67 where he broke with President Johnson on his support of the Vietnam War, how did that affect you? Did you take any any heat from the White House? On that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=579.0,602.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, not really, because he handled it in the right way. Mo used to drop by the house. This is after kind of the kids have left, and we'd have him over. Ella would come sometimes, and we talked, and we both had about the same view of Vietnam as the thing went along. We were both doves, and when he decided to give that speech, he told me he was going to do it. I didn't argue. Tell him what to do, really. He just said, I'm going to do it. And I said, Well, talk you out of it, but don't advertise it here in Washington. Write your speech, go home, and when you get back, or when you leave, send a copy to the president of the White House, because if you advertise, you're going to do it. Johnson called and say, Your crazy brother, stop it. And I said, That'll put me on a spa. You have to realize too. This is October, 1967 the Central Arizona Project is coming into a sharp focus. He Arizona may need Johnson. Actually, the need wasn't great because of Carl Hayden and all that Johnson owed to Hayden over the years and so on. But this, again, was a high risk venture, and he went, I didn't see the speech. He didn't, he told me. And I said, Well, I don't want to see it, but go home and give it. And I don't know how much national press. This God at the time, surely got some but the thing that he told me later, you know, Moe was saying the same height. So he told me, you know, Johnson looked down his nose and shorter people, here they are, eyeballed eyeball the next time mo saw him, probably at a White House reception, something going through the line and and Johnson, this is about all the company get out of Johnson. Johnson said something like this, he said, wasn't a bad speech. The show. He'd read it, but none of the Johnson people called that was rather interesting. It shows also that I had, I had the standing where they didn't think that I could intimidate my brother or change his mind. You know, Johnson began to suspect that a lot of us had deep reservations about me, and I'm that same fall, fall of 1967 I can tell a story sometime about Cabinet meeting. He had accused cabinet of not supporting that policy. Somebody said, Well, we don't know how to defend it. We don't have any information. He said, Well, have a Cabinet meeting without me, and Rusk and McNamara tell you what the arguments are, and we had two meetings, and they were disaster. I wish I'd made a lot of notes about that, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=603.0,831.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: story in relation to that comment you just made. I when I was at the motel room last night, I flipped on Ted Koppel, and he was doing an extensive interview with former Secretary of Defense, McNamara last night on well more on Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis and other issues, McNamara has become increasingly vocal His writings in the last few years about that you communicate with him at all, or any contact with him, or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=832.0,866.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: no, I've got notes in my I have a McNamara file, and that's out of the house. I last talked I had with was when cold war. And I called, and he talked for about 50 minutes, and I told him about some of my thinking and that I was writing a book. And I said. To him. I said, Bob, we owe it to our kids, and we ought to history to now COVID, when we look back to admit our mistakes as well as to talk about things that we did. And I said, you're the one person. Russ was still around that could do this and help the country understand and he very crisply responded. He said, doesn't do any good to rehash the past. That's my last conversation with him. I tried to reach him when his book came out to to express my pleasure and satisfaction, he didn't recur my call. Also wrote him a note. Replied, so our relations aren't strained, that just aren't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=867.0,959.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, we'll take you back to Arizona for a minute. The state of Arizona has been plagued in recent decades by what seems like an endless series of government scandals, land developer scandals, the problems that Governor Mecham had, the problems that current, our current governor is involved with in some ways, political leaders in Arizona, of recent times have become almost a laughing stock around the country. Do you see anyone emerging on the horizon who may provide what I believe you know, a strong, strong leadership, whether it's in the position of a governor in Arizona's future,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=960.0,1004.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you don't see him. I'm not living over there, reading the paper every day the way you do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1005.0,1011.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Baron Goldwater said something to me. Well, he wrote it in a letter, I've got a goal. When","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1012.0,1019.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I left Phoenix, and he said, I'm sorry to see you go. And he said, Arizona has been fortunate. It's always had the kind of strong leaders that it needed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1020.0,1035.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: No he was thinking of myself and Mo and Carl Hayden, John Rhodes and so on. In that context, I don't see the successors. I like John McCain to be frankly, he was, he really liked Mo and was influenced by Mo. He's the only one in Arizona leadership. Now, I don't have much regard for pastor who succeeded. He's a lightweight. Shouldn't expect all that much, and the congressional delegation has become very hard line. It wasn't in John Rhodes's day, but I don't see readers substantial, and it's with me, or technically, Simonton, it's tragic this kind of leadership. Come to the come to the top.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1036.0,1089.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, there seems to in the back of the 50s and 60s. There seemed to be, even though there were political differences, there seemed to be, for the lack of a better word, or gentlemanness or civility between between leaders and different parties that we seem to have lost some of that. Is there any hope that we'll regain that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1090.0,1111.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I don't, I don't see this, these right wingers in a congressional delegation, hard for me to have a conversation with them. There was a lot of civility, you know, in the old congressional delegation, when we had meetings, there was rarely backbiting or accusations made, and we were respectful of the other person's position, that that's the reason we got along so well. You probably it'd be hard to find a more different voting record than Morris's, my brother or mine and John Rhodes. But we understood where he was coming from. He understood where we were coming from, and we didn't mess up each other's hair, you know, try to score a little point within the congressional delegation, even with Goldwater, as partisan as he'd gotten to be when he ran for president, oh, I took a swing in at once in Los Angeles, while during his presidential campaign, but he never did a serious way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1112.0,1193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stuart, I think we'll end it there. Thank you again. I appreciate the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1194.0,1197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360#t=1198.0,1200.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146524/file/270360/transcript/78738/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/738/original/azu_ms396-061_side1_a.vtt?1745254379","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/738/original/azu_ms396-061_side1_a.vtt?1745254379"}]}]}]}