{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/jm23b5zg3q/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Van Bole"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Downtown Performance Center (DPC) Oral History Project, MS 858"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Downtown Performance Center (DPC) Oral History Project (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Bole, Van (Interviewee)","Purdy, Trent (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2026-03-03"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)","New York--Woodstock (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":[".m4a"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright held by University of Arizona Libraries.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS858.004 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright held by University of Arizona Libraries.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms858-004_m.m4a"]},"duration":5544.36267,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/313/647/original/azu_ms858-004_m.m4a?1783371293","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":5544.36267,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, so we're recording, so let's get started.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=0.0,3.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=4.0,4.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Hi, this is Trent Purdy. I'm here with Van Boleh. It is march 3, 2026 I am located in Tucson, Arizona, and Van is in Woodstock, New York. We're doing this interview via Zoom for the Downtown Performance Center Oral History Project to be donated to the University of Arizona Special Collections Archive. Thanks for joining me today, Van.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=5.0,28.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: My pleasure. Happy to be here. This is very cool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=29.0,30.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Thank you. Well, thank you. So, let's get started. And the first thing I wanted to ask you is, how did you discover and get involved in the Tucson Music scene?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=31.0,38.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So, I grew up in Los Angeles, and I was pretty involved in underground subcultures in Los Angeles. I graduated high school in 1992 So I grew up in LA in the 70s and 80s, and I actually grew up right off of Melrose Boulevard, like right by the heart of kind of where punk rock was, and fashion and culture, like, really the epicenter of what I thought cool was in Los Angeles, and when I came out to Tucson, I was looking at, you know, where I wanted to go to colleges, and I discovered the University of Arizona. I came out on a $50 round trip southwest ticket, which you used to be able to get back in those days. I think I came out in maybe March, something like that. It was gorgeous outside. I'm walking around, everyone seemed to be in a great mood. It was super cool, and I, my biggest interest really was college radio, and I walked into KMP Camp Student Radio, which at the time was on the first floor of the Student Union, the old Student Union that was in the center of campus, there had a window facing out onto the center quad, and I walked in, and boom, there's all the cool posters of all the bands I loved. I started talking to DJs. We all love the same kind of music. There was flyers for all kinds of cool shows, and everybody there just seemed like, you know, super cool. And I was, I was stoked, I was sold. And so I came out to U of A, I got in, and I started as a freshman in 1992 and one of the first things I did was get involved with the college radio station, and thus discovered the DPC. The DPC and camp had a pretty close tie, and I think those two things go really hand in hand. Camp was not really a massive cultural touchstone in Tucson for the larger population. When I was first there, I was just broadcasting on public access television. We were really pushing to try to get some kind of a, an actual radio signal, which we eventually got with AM, I want to say 1570 if I remember correctly, that was a huge push and everything, but the types of music that were being played in on camp and the types of shows that were being put on at the BC were fully connected, and so oftentimes we would be promoting those on the air, we would be passing out those flyers, and we would be oftentimes an integral part of some of those shows, including doing shows and sponsoring and putting on shows in conjunction with the DPC. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=39.0,215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's really interesting. I didn't know that the DPC in camp had any kind of like relationship, so that's that's fascinating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=216.0,222.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was really cool. There wasn't, you know, there weren't there were a couple other spots around Tucson in the early 90s where there were, you know, what we'll call it underground or alternative culture performances and shows. There was Club Congress, which was in the Congress Hotel, that was a pretty small room that held about 100 people, if I recall correctly, maybe 125 and then you had a couple of other spots where sometimes bigger shows would happen. We can get into it at some point if you want to, but actually Fugazi show that the DPC put on but didn't do at the DPC because of capacity, they wanted to do a 500 cap, I think, so they did it. Where was that? I have it written down, I'd have to look into it. I can't remember the name of the place, but it was, it was a little bit more north of campus, and so the DPC was an incredible spot to be like, wow, this is this is my, this is my place, you know. This was all the shows, the founder and main head of the place, Steve, and I, Steve, I was really just incredibly instrumental in bringing punk rock alternative. Rock grunge experimental electronic music stuff, all these really cool subcultural music movements that would, some of which would eventually become very mainstream and get into public and mainstream culture to this incredible 300 capacity, you know, warehouse space with concrete floors and rafters for pretty cheap. Most of the shows I remember being, you know, five to $10 A lot of the bands would crash on Steve's floor at his house. It was incredible, and the DPC was this just extraordinary spot where the sound was cool, it sounded great in that room, to my recollection. I'm not deaf yet, so that's pretty - that's a testament, I think, to something unlike a lot of people I know, and, and you know, it was really just this great open spot with this stage that was maybe a couple feet off the floor, you know, sort of waist high, some shitty couches in the back of the room, some cool old like movie theater chairs in one corner, a little spot with zines, and there was sort of this little off to the side room next to where the ticket booth was that had zines and some other places where you could hang out, and then you know this incredible like parking lot culture, but it was so, it was really, you know, as a lot of that I was able to find these shows, you know, initially again we were sort of really always looking out for this stuff, but with some great record shops in Tucson, back at the time, there was there was Zia, there was a spot on Sixth Street, it's in a little documentary made about electronic music back then. I have to find that the name of it in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=223.0,407.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: harvest season was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=408.0,409.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=410.0,410.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that might have been a little bit later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=411.0,412.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, this was this was like right on Sixth and Park, kind of like right around there. Yeah, it's in. I did a documentary. I'll send you the link for it that, that was on electronic on raves, like in 1992 1993 a little short that I did, and and we go in there and get the map to the map point, and you know, to the to the party, and and buying tickets, so you know, the big looking for flyers is always huge. Seeing those posted around campus, seeing those at record stores. And then the DPC also published a zine, which was a monthly zine that was really cool, and that had a listing of shows, and a lot of times there'd be, you know, maybe one band that you knew or was sort of familiar with, and then some other bands that you weren't, so you figured, oh, I'll go check those guys out to make sure you, you know, always make sure you hit the openers, that was pretty key, and, and to be able to kind of discover all this cool stuff, or even if there wasn't something else going on at night, and you're like, oh, this looks kind of interesting, let me go check this out on the monthly listing, you know, you put that on, write that down on your manual calendar, that you had to try to plan your classes and all your other stuff around, you know, back in the days before everything was electronic, when it was all very manual, we used to really, you know, I'd be, I'd get so excited, you know, and be really stoked for for these shows that were coming up and getting the chance to see ultimately where what were these amazing bands at this small, very intimate venue that was just incredibly cool, and I think that that was such an attraction to me, and so I wound up really spending an inordinately large amount of time there during the years that I was in Tucson, which was 1992 through the end of 1996 and got to just see so, so many incredible rad shows there, and you know of all different kinds.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=413.0,536.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, who needs to go to classes when you have all these cool shows ago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=537.0,539.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Right? I mean, that was really school was the school was the secondary experience to, to doing the radio and throwing raves and doing all the other stuff that was much more interesting to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=540.0,551.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, you brought up some very interesting things, and I would want to delve further into some of these points. So, you had mentioned you were doing bookings with DPC through camp. Can you tell me about that process, like what bands were contacting you and who you worked with at the DPC to book these shows?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=552.0,570.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, you know, I was sort of tertiary involved in that. I was actually in the sort of mid 90s, I started throwing raves, and that was sort of, I you know, I used to say I was like a raver on the weekend and punk rock, you know, I was kind of punk rock and alternative rock shows during the week, and you know, stage diving at those things, and then raving on the weekends, but there was a lot of crossover there, which I'll talk to you about in a minute, also with Electronic Musing too, but camp was my friend. Rich was, I was the music director at the camp from 93 through 96 and my friend Rich was the program director. He took over from Rob Cross, who is now the guy that does the interstitial announcements on Sirius XMU. If you listen to that at all, but the guy that is, that's like the, you know, in the alternative station on Sirius XM, and so I hear his voice every day, all day long, in between, which is pretty cool. And so part of that thing was that we would do these sort of, you know, camp fundraisers and different kind of camp shows that involved bringing out different bands and doing different shows at different places. There was definitely some local things. I remember some stuff with a band called Denton Gary that was sort of tertiary related to crash worship. Who is something we should very much talk about? Because that is an incredibly legendary experience in the BBC, and, man, you know, I'm usually such a good researcher, and I had some of the stuff I actually have. Check this out. Hold on, I'll show you this real quick. My friend Lauren, who was the general manager at Camp when I first started there, just sent me that. She had posted it maybe a month ago online, and she sent this to me, and this was zine that camp did this is from January 1993 free volume one number two, featuring the Beastie Boys Social Distortion, Mary Jane-ish, Morrissey. I did an article on Rave and Seaweed, so these were the kind of the sorts of bands that we were into, and then the backside we have our programming schedule, and this program schedule actually looks a little bit like what the DPC zine was with their, with their calendar, which on the DPC on the I hung out on the DPC Facebook page that I run. There's a lot of those posted, which also, and I will come back to your question in a second, but which also I found out through the power of the internet was very similar to what the 924 Gilman Street in Oakland, what their zine looked like, and so the my my recollection really with my involvement in terms of throwing shows and doing stuff at the DPC was that we would kind of have these, and Rich was often more involved in putting the bands together for who we would be doing a show with, and then he'd reach out to Steve and I, and again, you know, it's funny, I said earlier, before we started recording, we were talking about getting in touch with Steve, and I was like, \"Oh, just go over to Solar Culture, which is the art gallery and performance space that he owns now, and, and, and that was really a lot of what it was. I think the DPC had a phone there, you know, this was in the day of phones and answering machines. I think my recollection is that you could call, and there would be an answering machine with listings of the shows, but really going over and talking to Steve directly was what I recall being the kind of most effective way to get something booked, and so we would say, all right, let's let's try to do this bill of three bands, and I will find some of those for you and let you know what those are, because there were some really, there were definitely some cool camp shows, and with those, it would be like, okay, these are the dates that we're kind of looking at doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=571.0,809.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Do you have that availability, you know, which, and usually the zine with the calendar was just a month in advance, and then if there was another show booked out further than that, some of those would be like at the bottom, they'd say, you know, coming in the next month or two, and you'd see those, so you kind of had a vague idea of what dates would be, but, but, yeah, so that was kind of like how we do that stuff, and it was, it was the perfect kind of thing, was the perfect place, Steve always really, it felt like to us was happy to have any kind of cool underground subcultural programming going on there, and filling up really whatever days were possibly available, and sometimes there'd be multiple bookings in the same day, which was, which was always kind of interesting to me. There would be, I mentioned earlier that he was open to doing electronic music stuff, as well. There was a party that was thrown there on a regular recurring basis. I'd say maybe every couple months, every two or three months, by our friend Jay Rush. He was a DJ, was a really great Tucson DJ called Big Mama's Revenge, and Big Mom. In fact, I have this - is a this is one of the little handheld flyers, I know, where this is just, you can see it for that, but that's Big Mama's Revenge, and the flyer reads 9pm to 4am $5 Downtown Performance Center, 530 B North Stone, DJs, your flashy DJs for the evening, Alex Scott J Rush, and Gluten Queen Salamander, all Tucson Local. Is a $5 party, you know, so they would do something, and they'd get maybe a couple 100 people, so that's 1000 bucks. Pay to the DJs $100 give Steven a cut, you know, for the venue, and then you know walk away with two or 300 bucks, and be able to do this kind of thing. This ended at nine, but sometimes those would, or this started at nine, sometimes those shows would happen after a show that was already booked there, so there might be an earlier show with a hardcore band or a punk band or a thrash band or whatever that would end it, you know, maybe eight 830 and then Jay Rush and crew would roll in all the giant stacks of speakers into the DPC, which sounded amazing in there on the floor, you know. It was really like this. They were one of the early people to do this, just incredibly impactful sound coming from both sides of the room, not on the stage. This was also when the DJs were not the center point for electronic music, and you know, we would just sit there and be blasted by these beats, and it was fantastic, and you know, the DJ, like, behind the sets of speakers, or whatever. So, yeah, so Steve was really, you know, open to doing that, if we really just would go over, be like, hey, this is what we want to do, let's do these few bands, and let's, you know, we're going to do this for 10 bucks, we'll split it with you, or we'll give you 250 for the day, or you know, whatever. And he'd provide sound person, and we would take care of all of the other stuff. I was often more on the kind of promotion side, so I was a big flyer person, especially doing raves, you know. I was really into doing handing, handing out flyers, passing out, you know, posting those things up everywhere. I remember now there's another record shop that was right on University. All these.. you know, it's been.. it's only been 35 years, so I'm not sure if I can remember all the exact details. I'm usually pretty good with recollection, but we'll see if it comes to me. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=810.0,1016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: great job so far.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1017.0,1018.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Thank you. So, so those, so that kind of stuff, we would, you know, so I was into that, I would work the door and, and take tickets and stamp hands, and and kind of work the things on on that end when it came to the shows the camp was doing with the DC,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1019.0,1036.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so you, you had mentioned some of the other venues in town that were promoting shows. What made you decide to work with the DPC, as opposed to, like, Club Congress or any of those other venues?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1037.0,1046.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I mean, DPC just aligns so much with who we were and who we were as as people. The 90s was really a time when your cultural identifiers were pretty prevalent in terms of style and look, and how you presented yourself as an individual to the world, you know, and that, and you could sort of go back and forth, skate culture, rave culture, alternative electron, alternative electronic media culture, and, and punk, and you know, punk and alt rock and college rock, and those things sort of shared a similar sensibility esthetically, you know, the ravers and the skaters, we were all wearing baggy Jenko jeans with big, you know, chain wallets, but you know, the alt rock kids and the college rock kids were also wearing chain wallets, we were wearing, you know, band T-shirts or Adidas soccer kind of jerseys, and you know, and we all saw each other in the same kind of places, because you weren't necessarily just until one thing, you were usually in a couple of things, and and there was a real nod of the people that, you know, when you, you walked by, and again, this is Arizona in the 1990s Tucson was definitely way cooler than the rest of Arizona, in my opinion, especially culturally, but you know, there was a big sort of still mainstream culture. University of Arizona was a 40,000 person school at the time, you had a big fraternity and sorority culture, there you had, you know, you had grad programs, you had all kinds of other stuff that was very, you know, and people that dressed in in mainstream stuff that were wearing, you know, polo shirts and Oakleys, and that were wearing khakis, those were the people that were not, you could sort of instantaneously see that those weren't our people, but the TPC was really the spot that we identified with the most, and that just, you know, Stephen was doing programming that reflected who we were, and he was, it was open, it was an all ages venue that was a huge thing, also, you know, this was a place that didn't sell alcohol, so you could have high school kids, you could have old punks, you could have college kids. Everyone in between was, was super welcome there. There was no dress code, there was no, you know, there was no door policy. There was really this kind of open, very forward-thinking and underground culture identifying feeling that attracted all of us that hung out there, I think, and so that really felt like the touchstone of our scene out there at the time, whereas places like Club Congress, which I frequented as well, a lot. Congress had a Tuesday night 110 BPM party, which was my friend Howie and Tasha Bundy. They were the DJs there, and they played kind of cool instrumental hip hop, you know. 110 BPM was kind of the vibe there, Congress did shows with bands like No Doubt when they were first coming up, which we also camped at a show with No Doubt, and and some other bands, 311 and a couple other things we did that at the Buena Vista Theater, which was over on the east side, and where I actually wound up throwing some raves as well. That was a bigger event, you know, when we needed something that was like a 1500 2000 person kind of thing, and that was right before no doubt broke, but but Congress, and Congress also had some crossover, but they were just a sort of a smaller venue, was also 21 and over, so I had a fake ID. I was actually.. I started.. I started college when I was 17. I was like the youngest, one of the youngest people in my class. So, my birthday was in November, and.. but I had a fake ID since I was 15, because I wanted to go to shows, really primarily.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1047.0,1294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And so, by the time I got to Tucson, I was 23 or 24 on my fake ID, and I was able to, I was able to go to all those shows at Congress, and there was definitely some really cool crossover with bands that played at Congress, as well as the acts that played at the TPC, you have a lot of really cool, al.. I'm gonna have to hold on, let me see if I can minimize. Can you still see me if I minimize like this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1295.0,1329.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1330.0,1330.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: all right. Because I want to be able to go through the page, just because there's so many specific things that I think are really cool. Yeah, but you know, they would do all these interesting shows at other spots, but they were definitely more few and far between, whereas at the DPC something was always happening that was always cool and always within the wheelhouse of the stuff that we liked, and you know, I'm looking right now at a zine flyer, a zine for one of the DPC zines, and this is October, doesn't say the year, but I'm guessing this is 94 something like that, based around what I'm looking at here, and I just want, if you'll, if you'll indulge me for a second, absolutely, want to read you some of the bands that are on here, and some of the prices for this thing, and that's this. Is this will be answer your question, a lot of sort of why this was kind of one of the spots, right? So, here's Alice Donut from New York with Soul Fish, and that's it from LA, $4 on Saturday, october 5. The mentors with Earl's Family Bombers, who were a Tucson band, if I remember correctly, and the gels five bucks. The Melvins from San Francisco, you know, Buzz from the Melvins. I would, when I was growing up in Los Angeles, I worked at this upholstery fabric store, and then I sometimes worked there over the summers when I was back in LA, or just on a vacation, or whatever. I remember King Buzz, though, walking in with his insane shocks of gray hair to buy fabric for his new couch, and that was a total trip. I totally helped. We were talking about Tucson, and we're great, but the Melvin's with American Death Trip head cheese, World of Hurt, five bucks, Helios Creed $5 with Fucked Feast upon Cactus Thorns, a Tucson band and Tree House from Seattle, and then Halloween Night Crash Worship coming in November. The Dwarves, I mean, these are all none of the shows are more than $5 $3 $2 and just unbelievable. So, you didn't have to have a lot of money to go there. It was an easy spot to go. You could spend your night, you knew you were going to have a really cool time, and either you're going to see bands you loved or be exposed to something that maybe would become something he would love, so that was really, you know, it was so important to have a place. There was no internet, you know, I mean, there was very early internet, but there was nothing like today. In fact, my freshman year was such a huge deal to have an email address, it was such a novelty, and it ended in like at University of arizona.edu/this blah blah blah, you know, like I mean, I think we have websites for when we were doing our first raves, where the, you know, the website is is like two pages long, but but to have these these spots that you felt, you know, now people call them like third spaces. On, you know, or third places, these places where you just felt like, hey, my people are here, this is a gathering place, you know, this is where I know the people that I like, and the vibe that I like, and the kind of thing that I like is going to happen, that was really the cornerstone for for that scene in Tucson, and that's kind of why I really chose to spend time there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1331.0,1524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's like a perfect segue into one of the main things I really want to hope tease out during this project is to get a sense of the community that was developed by the DPC, or the DPC fostered. So you said you had moved here when you were 17 years old from from LA, so how what was your impression of the DPC scene, and how it compared or contrasted from the LA scene, and what kind of people were attending the shows, and one of the things you really mentioned that piqued my interest was you mentioned the parking lot culture, if you could touch on that a little bit, because that's that's something I'm, I've heard a little bit about, but I want to kind of delve deeper into that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1525.0,1562.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the interesting things about Tucson, and one of the observations that I sort of made, and that I've taught, you know, I've sort of repeated over the years, is that it was a, you know, it's a, it's a city, it's a university city, and with a, you know, centered around this school that has 40,000 people at it, but it was small, it had one of everything. So, whereas a place like Los Angeles, you know, there's a million different options, and there's a million people competing with each other, doing the same thing, and you know, there's just.. and so you would never, you know, sometimes you'd see the same people, but it was, it was harder because scenes were so spread out, and everything. Tucson was really centered around these particular places, and so you would see a lot of the same people over and over again. And then there was also, you know, just people that you never saw before, or people that would sort of show up there was a culture, you know, of cross punks that would be hopping the trains, literally hopping the trains into Tucson, getting off, showing up for a month or two, disappearing again. But those people you would see by the DPC all the time, you know, they, they were hanging out, they were going to the shows, and if they couldn't, you know, if they weren't going to the shows, they were hanging out in the parking lot, and, and the parking lot of the DPC was a really interesting place, and something I hadn't experienced in Los Angeles. There wasn't any kind of parking lot culture, you know. We drove everywhere in LA because that's what you did, that was the only way to get around, and parking lots were really for parking cars, and that was, you know, primarily it, and you go inside of the whatever the venue was that you were going to, whether it was, you know, the Roxy and Whiskey on Sunset, whether it was, you know, going out to the Valley to go to, you know, my first punk show was Social Distortion with the Vandals at the shitty spot called the Country Club out in Reseda, everything was inside, you know, and this was a time when people, you know, smoked cigarettes inside. There was, you know, everything happened inside, like there was no, that was a way to kind of not worry about disturbing the neighbors as well, you know. Oftentimes there were bouncers kind of making sure that people were there, there wasn't like an outdoor smoking section or anything, but at the DPC, because of the way that it was, you know, it was 535 30 B Stone, North Stone was a corner property, and it was just before the overpass and underpass that divided Tucson's downtown area from, you know, regular part of Tucson, the non-downtown part of Tucson, and it was a semi-industrial area, and the way that the building was structured is you sort of had the DPC facing into its parking lot, and then the parking lot wrapped around the side in the back, and you kind of, so it's sort of its own little mini world, there was some residential stuff, block or so down, and I think at some points there were some issues with those people. Steve could, I'm sure, pontificate on that forever, but the parking lot maybe held, I don't know, 15 cars tops, and you know, if you made it over there, if you didn't come over on your BMX bike or your skateboard, or or walk, or you know, it was close enough that you could do those things, you got a ride with friends, you know, there was not really any taxi services, there was no ride share back then, nothing that I kind of recall specifically, but you sort of had the cars parked against the, it would be like the south part of the property, and then you had this big sort of parking lot area, and there was the wall of the DP, the big wall of the TBC that always had these amazing murals and stuff painted on them, and then you had just kind of a lot of space between the the egg.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1563.0,1798.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Of the building or an entrance of the building in the front, and where these cars actually were, there was a couple big dumpsters out front there, and so people would just hang out there. It was, you know, it's it's Tucson, so it's always hot, you know, that was that's a big part of it. Sometimes it was really hot inside of the DPC, sometimes you wanted to be outside, sometimes you just wanted to go and hang out, and sometimes you were just there to hang out and people watch and see the scene, because it was amazing to see all the different esthetics and styles, and you know, appreciate that this was a gathering of where all the freaks and weirdos, and you know, alternative culture people were, and we were those people, you know, we identified as that, so so you get a lot of the, you know, you get a lot of the gutter punks, especially, and I say that term with affection, because you know that was the self-identified, you know, gutter and cross punk was a real sort of self-identified label that those kids put on themselves, and I say kids, and you know, some of them are definitely in their 20s and 30s as well, but those people would, you know, sit outside with a 40 ounce and a brown paper bag, or not, you know, Mickey's 40, which you could get from one of the liquor stores for $1 I think, was the cost of 40, that'll get you drunk, and you know, last you the night, or you know, somebody had a six pack, people were out there, you know, smoking weed, but like kind of tre, really trying to hide it, because in Arizona at the time, that was a really still a very punishable offense, not that it wasn't happening everywhere all the time, you know, there was only really like Mexican swag weed available from, you know, for that was kind of the best stuff you could buy, it was, it was sticks, and it was, you know, stems and seeds, kinds of stuff, and, but you know, everyone would kind of be hanging out, because when you're inside, the music's so loud, it's an intense thing, you want to focus on what's going on there, but it was also just such a social gathering spot, you know, you go there, you'd meet friends, you'd hit on people, you would, you know, look at what T-shirt somebody else is wearing, strike a conversation, you would see your friends from school or friends from other schools, if you were in high school, there, you know, there was, I went to University of Arizona, but there was also a community college that was in Tucson, and so you'd run to people there. It was really sort of your, you know, it was, it was a gathering spot, and so the parking lot was to some degree a bar, you couldn't drink inside, you know, and Steve was pretty adamant against that, and adamant about that, and people respected it, you know, because nobody wanted that place getting shut down. Everybody that spent any time there wanted to ensure that, in some fashion, that place stuck around, and so if you were going to drink, if you're going to do anything, whatever, you made sure to kind of do it outside, you know, even though that was technically the DPC property, you know, there rarely was there any kind of enforcement or anything, but it was just kind of like the, the sort of spoken and known rule, or unspoken and known rule, that that's what you did, you argued outside, you hung out outside, you came in to see the bands, maybe in between you wanted to go out and get some air, and that parking lot could hold everybody, like the entire capacity of that place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=1799.0,2008.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So you know, some of the kids would go around the corner, and maybe you know there were always some hooligans, and I think even it was always trying to, trying to keep those kids somewhat in chat, just in terms of, you know, anything that would potentially affect the continuing functionality of that space, but yeah, you saw, you know, that's where you saw, and again, like those those cross punks that would show up for a month or a week, or however long they showed it up, they would just camp out there, pretty much, you know, and they, I don't know where they were during the day, you know, or the morning or late night, or whatever, but you know, maybe in the parks or wherever they went and hung out, you know, they just sort of camp out and, and you know, ask people for change and bump cigarettes and do whatever it was they were going to do, and maybe they got enough money to get into the show, you know, for one of the $2 shows, but it was just cool to see everybody, the skaters would be hanging out together, you know, the Ravers, and also just sort of depending on what the show was and who was who was coming out. There was also one other thing that would go down that I think you might find interesting around that time, and I wasn't that privy to it in terms of being deeply involved, but I definitely observed it, you know, there was there's there were the skinhead movements that were that existed with them in punk rock, and so you had the anti-racist skinheads versus the, you know, shitheads, which were all the sort. Of fascist and Nazi identifying fuckers, you know, that would every now and then show up to something, and you know, there might be a fight outside, or there might be at least enough of a group of all the sharps and the anti-racist skinheads that were out there, and if their presence was known enough, you know, and a couple asshole skin showed up, you know, they'd fuck off instead of trying to, you know, hang out and get their asses kicked. So there were definitely some bites, and the sounds of broken bottles being, you know, smashed against walls and stuff, but in relative terms compared to some of the stories from, you know, 80s Los Angeles punk rock shows, and even 80s Arizona lore, you know, it was a relatively good time. It was a relatively safe feeling space, and it was fun and interesting and eclectic, and you could really just kind of take it all in, meet lots of cool new people, see your friends, and have a spot where you could really just hang out and enjoy yourself, and you know, and then go in and see these incredible shows.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2009.0,2165.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or, you know, make plans, go do something else in the parking lot, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2166.0,2169.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Completely. And then also, you know, the other thing, I'm not sure if you're familiar with it or not, and I don't know exactly what year it happened. I want to say it must have been around 93 maybe 94 but next door, right up the street, was Toxic Ranch, and Toxic Ranch was like a little kind of hybrid coffee shops, cafe zine record shop, and that was just the north, it might have been part of the actual DPC property, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2170.0,2202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: think it was north on, I want to say, sixth and fourth avenue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2203.0,2206.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, there was eventually. Yes. Okay, okay, yeah. So, but at first, Toxic Ranch and Bill, whose book I have, he made a.. he did a book. Bill could kind of give you the whole, the whole gist of it, but it was like a little kind of, kind of pop-up cafe, and Joss, yeah, coffee shops in the 80s and 90s were like a really big thing. Also, so this was a spot that was open in both during DPC hours and non-DPC hours that you could kind of come to and hang out, read the zines, drink coffee, eat a little bit from the cafe again, hang out with cool people, they were always playing cool music over the, you know, over the sound system there, and, and so that was a little bit of a way to extend the hours of the entire kind of DPC culture.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2207.0,2254.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Interesting. Okay, so it seems like you were there from 92 right to the end, and 95 Did you see the vibe or the scene change at all the DPC?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2255.0,2266.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, well, I was there. It was I was there till 96 and my recollection was there was still active. I think there were times at which it maybe got shut down for a bit, but then kind of went, kept going. I don't know the exact date of when that happened, but I do have.. sorry, I mean, you can ask me that same question again, but I think I had mentioned this to you, I think, and I don't know if you've seen these or not. This is super cool. Oh, yes, this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2267.0,2299.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2300.0,2299.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: from when the building was actually knocked down, which happened in the late 2000s at some point. I don't know if you know the actual time frame of that. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2300.0,2308.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it was. Yeah, I think you're right around that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2309.0,2310.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, and so one of the members of the I hung out the downtown performance center group went when they were knocking the building down and rescued a bunch of these bricks, and put them in these little charts, and just sent them to whoever wanted them, and I just thought this was the coolest thing. So, yeah, this is a physical piece of the DPC. Here, I've got a little paint chip inside of that one, just kind of cool, and, and you know, but yeah, this was this, you know, crazy brick building. Did I see the culture change? I remember a few different things, and actually I came across a cool video that somebody just recently posted the other day on the group. It was their band was playing, and let me.. I'm just gonna flip through this real quick and tell you if I can. Yeah, it's.. yeah, I think I commented. So now it's the highest thing. This is a band called Mountain Pig, they played with, they played with another band, another two bands. There just could tell you this real quick. Here, this guy, Chris Carlone, was this was his band, and they played with The Lonely Trojans and Freak show hoe down from San Francisco, and those kind of names were exactly like the kinds of things you would hear back then, which is pretty cool. And that, and Mountain Pig has this little video, you know, that they shot on their home camera, or whatever, and you see the, you see the space, you see the DPC empty before the show starts. And but you also see this great this sign that was on the wall, which was, and this relates to your question, it was a sign that Stephen had posted that said the DPC, the state of Arizona does not allow dancing unless we have a $10 million insurance bond, so every show, so this, so shows need to be responded to in a passive manner, or something to that effect, but he used the word passive, I think, which was, you know, very much, I feel like Steven's MO was, you know, very much the pacifist, very soft spoken, but he but the, you know, the state and the regulations, and all the other stuff. I know behind the scenes, he was always kind of fighting those things. Now that didn't stop anyone, you know, the shows there were insane, and the pits were super fun, and the stage fighting, and the moshing, and the, you know, crowd surfing, that was all rad, and nobody made any attempt to have that stop, but I think this was a little bit more of a concerns about fire marshals and legalities, and that kind of thing, you know. We would see the cops show up every now and then for something, but often I just remember them kind of leaving, you know. I think it was a place where they felt like, hey, this is, we'd rather have all these freaks consolidated in one place than, you know, spread out all over town. At least we know that this is where everyone be, and, and, so I think that, you know, my, my recollection was that culturally I don't feel like it changed all that much, but I do feel like Stephen had a lot of kind of fights against the regulations that he was subjected to, running a business like that, you know, this was very much a passion project, and it was a business, no doubt, but when you just do the math on it, you know, you realize that this was the kind of thing where this was not like, you know, we would go to Phoenix to go to shows at a club or whatever, and that's going to be a, you know, back then the 90s, that was a 12 or 15 or $20 ticket that I'm selling, you know, that was a bar space, and some spaces were allowed to have 21 and older and 21 and under in those spaces, but they very much were about making money off the bar, making money off the ticket sales, you know, having a very glitzy kind of glammy vibe to their space, even if it was an alternative rock kind of show.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2311.0,2546.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: The DPC was not that at all, but I do have a recollection of Stephen, sort of, you know, struggling with the things that were that he had to deal with on the business side of it, but I didn't really feel like culturally during my time it changed all that much. It really felt like just, hey, this is this killer spot. There was no real massive competition, you know. We had this place called Cellar that was in the student union. Every now and then, there'd be like a lunchtime show there. Mostly that happened a little bit more so frequently before I got there, and, but again, like the seller, and you know, maybe help 50 people, you know, something like that, but if you look at the programming, you know, as you go through those those things, he really still was doing just all these amazing different shows within those same kinds of genres, and, and making really cool stuff throughout that entire time that I was there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2547.0,2609.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know, thinking about that sign that he posted about passive dancing, or whatever the phrase was, you know, I know what ultimately kind of led to the DPC getting shut down was the lack of a dance hall permit that was required by the city, so I wonder if that was some sort of like legalese way to subvert that, at least for, well, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2610.0,2630.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we had this, this, that, that concept is, you know, rings very strongly to me in the most unfortunate way, is because ravers, for instance, you know, I mean, this is something that government versus the people, you know, it always really felt like this in a lot of the scenes. There was the, in New York, it was the cabaret law, you know, that's that's what Giuliani used to shut down a lot of the clubs and and spaces in New York City, you know, saying you have to have this cabaret license if you're going to have any kind of gathering with more than 10 people that's going to have dancing in it, and then they just basically would not grant these things at all, you know. You had the National Rave Act, you had these different things in Los Angeles, you know, dance hall licenses, all this kind of stuff. This has been used, you know, I think the whole dance hall thing originated in the 1920s or 30s, during Prohibition, and really was sort of carried through. It's so archaic when you think about it, but also it's, it's weird when you think that, okay, 50 years earlier, you know, 50 years prior to that, those dates, you know, when we were hanging out was those. Times, and 50 years prior to now, you know, was the the times that we're discussing now, so those things really kind of carry over very long term, and this is always government, you know, using these things. I've never understood it. It's been my, my biggest, you know, qualm with our societal and government kind of attitudes in the US is this idea that you know people cannot in you know the government is in some fashion trying to stop people from doing whatever it is they want to do and having a good time half my family is Dutch and I spent the year in Amsterdam after I left Tucson, after I graduated college, and you know, you've got a space, a place like Amsterdam, and Dutch government, of course, it's smaller, you know, smaller than the US, and that's what the Dutch people always tell you, but I really got the sense that their government sort of is about really being truly representative of the people and doing for the people what the people's voices want, and so you have all these major, amazing cultural institutions, you have all these incredible, you have incredible club and nightlife culture, you have nightlife mayors, you have people who are, you know, and you have massive economies and stuff around all of this, and there's a real sense that hey, this is a place where you can go and be expressive and have freedom. Berlin is very much a cornerstone of that right now, and you know, in Tucson, in the 90s, as much as it was a liberal feeling place within the bubble of the University of Arizona downtown and those surrounding little areas, still Arizona, you know, and Arizona was a conservative spot that had a lot of conservative people in government and authoritative positions, and, and you know, places like the DPC were, were there as a, you know, as a default and a stand against that in a lot of ways, but I do think, you know, that you can sort of only fight authorities for so long, and you know, and so much,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2631.0,2821.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right? Yeah, so it sounds like you went there frequently, quite a bit intended. I'd imagine your fair share of shows, any, any memorable ones you want to in a discussion? Any,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2822.0,2833.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I made a little list that I'd love to, there were the things that have stood out for me that I love with you, if you're into it. Absolutely, and anyway, so the first thing, well, we got to talk about the fact that Green Day used to come through to the TPC. Green Day was one of these bands, love them or hate them, I love them personally, I love them then, I love them now. This was, you know, a band that was indie punk band on Lookout Records out of Northern California, and they were bratty and loud and fast and cool and fun. And Steven, I had mentioned earlier that the DPC zine, I think, was very similar to Gilman. I'm guessing I didn't really ever make the connection, but I imagine that he was probably in touch with those guys, with the Gilman Street guys, because when you look at some of the Gilman Street list things, a lot of times they coincide, and you know, it was again the same kind of mentality that Facebook was run, that was all sort of volunteer run, and a little bit more of a collective, whereas the DPC was really Steven's thing, and he would, you know, hire a handful of people to do stuff, but I think that there was, there was sort of this little circuit, which was super cool, and I'll tell you about some of their shows, but I think this is an important kind of way to frame it. There was a bit of a circuit of these bands that would come, and they would do a small sort of west coast slash southwest tour, and so often that was northern California, and then they would come down and either go through somewhere like Las Vegas or whatever, and then come down to Phoenix and or Tucson, hop over to San Diego, up to Los Angeles, back up north, so you have this little, you know, sort of J-shaped route, and so bands like Green Day were, would do these things, you know, this is, they do five or six dates, and they would come through, and you know, before, and we would play these bands on the radio, and this was one of those things that the crossover between camp and the TPC was that college radio was pretty influential back then, in terms of music that would eventually break, but also just all the cool stuff, and so those types of bands, these independent underground punk, you know, alternative rock, college rock, indie rock, whatever you want to call it back then, bands that were making 45 rpm records, you know, pressing 500 of those things, sending them out to college radio stations. As a news director, I would get all this kind of stuff. We've played these things on the radio, and so when these bands would come through, we'd be so stoked. We knew this music. Oh, here's the new release from these guys. We've been playing it for a couple weeks. Boom, they're coming. Stevens, you know, in that same loop. Stephen brought them to the DPC, so yeah, so we'd see bands like, so we saw Green Day, you know, at the DPC, and that was for 300 people. And 30 years later, I took both my kids at different times to see Green Day at Citi Field in New York, you know, a baseball stadium with 40,000 people, and I have to say we're still like just as unbelievably cool,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=2834.0,3022.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and they're favorable, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=3023.0,3024.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, they're playing, playing the Super Bowl, unbelievable, but you know, I think those guys are still very much the guys they were back then, to some degree, at Citi Field, they brought along Rancid, who was another band that we saw at the DPC, Rancid were, you know, incredible, showing up with Tim Armstrong with his crazy mohawk at the time, and, and Lars, you know, and those guys would just cause total chaos and ruckus, and, but it was fun, you know, it was fun, that was the thing, there was a real sense of fun back then, even these hardcore shows, fear came and played, I don't know if it was technically fear anymore. It was leaving the, you know, lead singer of fear. He was had some qualms with his band at the time, but you know, fear was definitely like 80s hardcore, you know, 70s, 80s hardcore. And Lee was a fucking maniac, even though he's like felt a lot older than all of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=3025.0,3079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=3080.0,3079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was an insane, you know, the pit at these hardcore shows felt a little more intense than at some of the more punk and kind of indie and college rock shows, but still fun, like that was a real, that was, that was really kind of key. I remember there's this band called Total Chaos, Total chaos, are a, you know, they're really like chunk identifying esthetic, like all the guys, Liberty Spikes, leather jackets, patches, you know, the whole thing. Everyone likes to that. And I actually interviewed them, which I got a chance to do too, which was really cool. At the DPC, I could interview these bands, and, you know, these bands were cool, they didn't often get interviews for much of anything, and so I'd bring my tape recorder from the literal, you know, big tape recorder from the from the radio station, bring it over and hang out with those guys up against the dumpster outside of the entrance, and you know, hang out and interview them while people came by and gave them beers, and you know, talk to them, and that kind of stuff, that was pretty cool. I think the most, you know, bands and other things that stand out to me. There was a lot of ska stuff that happened, which was cool. That was another thing that Stephen did, a provided real big form for Dave's Big Deluxe, was a big local, like 10 piece ska band. My friends Keith and Doug were in that also from the radio station. Keith was a horn player and tucked guitar, and Dave, Big Dave, who I think is now a chef, was the lead singer there, and they played, I think, Mighty Mighty Boss tones, that was a, you know, crazy bonkers thing before those guys went off the rails a little bit, as they have now. I think the most legendary show, and this is the one that I want to regale you with the story about was this band Crash Worship, and Crash Worship played Tucson a few different times, they played sometimes out in the desert, they played a couple of places, they actually played Congress once, which was crazy, but the Crash Worship show at the DPC stands out to me when people, you know, when I think about DPC, this is the first thing that comes to mind. So, not sure if you're familiar with this band or not, and calling the band is a loose term. The Crash Worship was started as a project by Psycho, at least the Dolor by Psych grad students at the University of San Diego, UCSD, and it, they were sort of fascinated with kind of culty stuff, and and group response to, you know, sort of how does a group respond to different kinds of scenarios within a space. This relates to some degree to something I was particularly interested in, which was Hakeem Bay's temporary autonomous zone. Not sure if you're familiar with that or not, but Hakeem Bay was a sort of modern day philosopher. He did stuff with Bill as well for material and some spoken word recorded things, and did this amazing thing called T A Z, the Temporary Autonomous Zone. This applied a lot to rave culture specifically, but I think it really translated into the space, and and the idea behind the Temporary Autonomous Zone was that there were spaces that sort of by the zeitgeist of whatever the either cultural experience or musical experience, or whatever the thing was, that we either, that within these spaces, either within walls, confined within walls or not, where the rules of society changed, and within those spaces things were different, and so there wasn't a written set of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=3080.0,3298.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Rules, there wasn't a specific, there was nobody enforcing any of this, but there was this idea that within this space things were the rules of the outside world applied differently, and so those things, those things varied in the rave scene, that was sort of the tenants of blur, which is peace, love, unity, respect, you know, this idea that all these people from different cultural backgrounds could come and coexist within this spot, and be in, you know, and have good vibes, and do this whole cool thing, and not have the same kind of, you know, thing, where some, you know, gangster walking down the street is gonna, you know, give bad looks to somebody else, or, you know, try to start a fight, or do whatever the kind of thing was, and I think the DPC was in itself kind of a temporary autonomous zone, it really was autonomous from from the outside world and had its sort of outside roles. Anyway, the crash worship show was scheduled to start at midnight, as most crash worship shows were, and the idea behind this band was that they essentially were this collective of I think at the time that this particular show was, they were maybe six or seven people, they, you couldn't really identify them, per se, but they played like all this insane percussions, bump bump up, you know, really like deep, crazy tribal percussion beats, and they would build and build, and then hit these crescendos, and then they would ride the crescendo out, which is my big problem with jam bands. I don't like jam band usually personally. I always find that those guys tend to kind of build your crescendo and then stop, like that's kind of thing. This was about hitting that peak and riding out that wave, they had a single string sitar that was plugged into some weird stuff. There were, you know, three of these percussionists on stage, dressed in weird kind of tribal and, you know, dog masks and stuff. Somebody literally howling as a vocalist. There was no, there were technically songs they went on for 10 or 12 minutes, but they just kind of was this this deep insane tribal experience, so the show, so everyone's gathered into the DPC. I would say that 90% of the places on psychedelics, and I know that from firsthand experience from all the people that I was around, and everyone's kind of, you know, waiting for midnight to kick in. These guys were notorious for the way they started their shows, too, which was to come from the back of the room in kind of this parade-like fashion, and then there were all these people that kind of were their groupies, is the wrong word, part of their tribe that were either half naked, completely naked, painted in body paint, or whatever they were doing, who would throw firecrackers on the floor around the space, and everything would just really become incredibly disorienting as smoke poured in, as all this like just wild stuff started to happen, right as the show is about to start, and everyone's kind of whooping and hollering. My friend Paul, who was standing next to me, gets it into his mind that he is going to take the flannel shirt that he's got wrapped around his waist, as we all did at the time, take a lighter, his zippo out of his pocket, light the thing on fire, and throw it up in the air, really get the vibe going. This is like right, this is all about to start. Paul takes his shirt, takes it, lights the sleeve, the thing, which obviously was not very fireproof, totally ignites. He freaks out a little bit, throws it up in the air, and it gets caught in the rafters of the DPC. The TPC was this big open warehouse, but it had these rafters that went across the top, so now there's a lit shirt on fire with 300 people whacked out of their minds coming up on psychedelics, and the..","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=3299.0,3533.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and there's this thing up there, Steven, I think, was the one who saw that it happened, grabbed the fire extinguisher that he had by this place extinguish the, you know, the thing everybody evacuates because he can't be in this spot where the entire place is filled with fire extinguisher smoke, and and winds up back out in that parking lot that we were talking about earlier, completely tripping balls and just, you know, hanging out, waiting for everything to clear out, so 12 o'clock is now midnight, has now come and gone. It's probably 1230 by this point, 1245 and we get the all clear to go back inside, and sure enough, like clockwork, firecrackers start going off on the floor, the place fills with smoke machine smoke the band starts coming in from the back of the room and makes their way through the crowd, various kinds of liquids start getting flung everywhere, and there's cocoa powder, there's chocolate syrup, there's bags of wine that are being passed around. Just squirted on everybody, the guys get on stage, everything just starts getting this insane noise, and the entire crowd just kind of starts like getting into the sway in one kind of moment. I remember seeing my friend Tre, who I went to school with, and she was part of the radio station. I remember seeing her, she was kind of goth industrial girl, as it was, and excuse me, goth industrial woman as it was, and she, and she.. I remember seeing her just kind of in my brain thinking that she was completely had given over to this insane rhythm and beat and experience, and different than rave culture, this was like darker and crazier and more insane, and it was really just completely bonkers. There's a pig's head that appears on stage, and I think it's thrown into the crowd. They're just, you know, everyone says, like, you go to a gore show and you get covered in disgustingness. Everybody left that show completely just like drenched in every conceivable liquid and powder and everything, and this went on for a solid, like, two hours, I think. They might have lit a fire in the middle of the floor, if I recall correctly. There's, you know, it was all very Dionysian, and sort of like this very intense, crazy cult-like experience in the best possible way, and it was amazing. And these guys used to come, and they would do, you know, they did this sometimes out at raves in the desert, they did it at Club Congress. It was just.. it was this experience where you really fully had to give yourself over to it, and you couldn't help but to become a part of it. The place felt like it was just this singular pulse of insane intensity, like the, you know, floors of hell had opened up, and kind of everybody's just partying around as the flames are kind of coming up through it. It really felt like, like something out of a, you know, a Greek myth, and it was, it was bananas. So that crashes for show was pretty legendary, and when you go through the I hung out the TPC pages, it comes up frequently. There are legends of, you know, different crashers for shows, and and there's been spin-off bands of various members of that that have done different things over the years, and some things that still exist in that kind of tradition, but, but that was really like pretty insane, and pretty, pretty intensely legendary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=3534.0,61.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:0: Yeah, the people that I've been in contact about participating in this, like, I would say the vast majority of people have mentioned that show as being this touch pointy history, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=62.0,61.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:0: Yeah, it really is. It really is pretty amazing. So, like, then Gary was doing a similar kind of thing, but not, you know, as crazy. We had, you know, and it was just, and again, like a testament to Steven, who absolutely knew what this was about, who totally got it, and was willing to welcome those people into his space and allow everyone to experience that, you know, because otherwise, like, when it was happening in the desert, it had to happen in the desert, like there was nowhere they would let these guys do that thing. They did this Congress show, I don't know how that happened at Congress, and it happened once, and that was it. And I was at that show, and it was also like nuts, but not quite as, because it was smaller, and you know, you were not sure. The other kind of amazing thing about the DPC was that, because it was essentially this black box, you really, the bands, you know, and sometimes there was projection behind the bands. There wasn't really that much in terms of like lighting, I think there might have been some park hands, and you know, a couple of colored park hands, or whatever, but you really were just absorbed in the space being what it was. Everything kind of disappeared around you, and so you were.. it was like you and the music, and the space was perfectly neutral, but it.. it.. but it also was this cocoon where you could be in express and experience these things that were amazing. A couple other shows that just stood out to me, no effects came and played there again, like you know, incredibly legendary punk band. I'm wearing the punk rock museum hat today, where, which I went to when I was recently in Las Vegas for the first time in 25 years, and, and Fat Mike from No Effects started the punk rock museum, and you know, those guys came and played the shows, you know, they're, you know, they're still, I mean, they just broke up, but you know they, they were banned for 40 years to be able to see these bands up close. I mean, there was no, there was no barrier at the DPC. This was another thing that was really amazing. You had the stage and you had the people, and so you often had kids, and if you look at videos, and there's not that many videos from the time, but if you look at the ones that are available on YouTube or on the page, often you'll see, just like you'll see kids sitting on the stage, you know, you'll see a few people pushed up against the maybe the sides and hanging out there the whole time, you'll see the pit, but there was no separation between the bands and the audience, and that was so cool, you know, because. You were just there. There was no security, you know? I mean, I have no recollection of ever seeing a security guard there. I could be wrong, you know. You walked in the door, the ticket counter was behind, you were physically inside of another room, you know, with a cut out, and everybody kind of respected it. I don't remember any kind of a pat down or anything, but I also don't remember, like, anyone bringing knives in, or anyone getting, you know, stabbed or hit or anything. It was just there was something that was just so cool about the fact that you could have a space like this. It was there was a certain sense of proof of, hey, you don't, if everybody is on the same page, and if everybody respects the rules of the temporary autonomous zone, simply out of the fact that they want it to exist. Then you're gonna have a great time, and you know, and that's what we did. So, you know, when we saw bands like No Effects, who just came in and ripped the place up, it was fantastic. You know, bands like Vandals and The Offspring, you know, I remember stage diving during the Vandals pizza tran when they were, they played that track, and we've been playing these songs on the radio, that was super cool. G Love and Special Sauce, I mean, again, this is the diversity of the lineup.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=62.0,65.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:0: G Love did a Valentine's Day show, I remember going to and, and, and then you know, and then he would do what most bands at that time would do. I'm not even sure if there's any kind of a green room. I don't think there was. I think the band just kind of kept their stuff off stage, if I remember correctly. But all the bands would just kind of hang out, and you know, and and kick it with everyone after, and you go up and say hi, and you know, there was no real autographing. There were no selfies, nobody was taking like pictures or anything, but you could go and say hi and just, you know, shake their hand or give them five, or you know, whatever that was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=66.0,65.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:0: Interview them for your radio show, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=66.0,65.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:0: Exactly. Or interview them for our radio show. We got a lot of bands to do drops for the for the station, you know, which would be like, hey, this is, you know, Fat Mike from No, if I actually listen to KMP Student Radio, you know, Tucson, so we got them to do a lot of that kind of stuff, you know. We were really there was something about that time frame and the DPC, there was such a tone of living in the moment that you just wanted to experience what was happening, and it felt so special. Oh my god, this band is coming, you know. Oh, I get to, you know, come and see Velocity Girl, you know. I get to see.. I want to flip through and just tell you some of these.. I'm not sure how you're doing on time, but Propaganda, you know, Jimmy World, I think played there. Let's see. Oh, dri, you know these amazing lineups of bands that would come through. Hang on, I'm gonna look at real quick. Sure, yeah. How we doing on time for you? Oh, I got","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=66.0,66.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:0: nothing but time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=67.0,66.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:0: So let me flip through and just find some of these the listings here, because they every time I see them, you know, I went to so many shows, and I see these things, oh, I remember that, that show was amazing, this was so cool, and I want to tell you about the Fugazi show too, because I think that was an important, another important touchstone, which we'll get to in a second here, and where are those guys? Oh, you know what, if I go to the pictures section, give me one sec. Here, overview. See if I can get to that. Oh, neurosis. Those guys were fucking bonkers. That was really cool. Band called Star Tre.. Star Crunch was the Tucson band they got to play, and that's another thing. Like, there were. this was a real great spot for local bands to get on these bills to either do their own headlining shows or to get on the bills opening for bigger bands. Steven was really supportive of that kind of stuff, and I think that that was a really, a really great way for, you know, and they would bring their friends, you burn all your friends, and those guys would be like, \"Oh my god, I can't believe you got to, you know, Jason's cat died, you know, gets to play with Kai, you know, Caius, or whoever they were playing with at the time. All right, let's see, here's Skink and Pickle playing with Dave Big Deluxe amazing ska shows, and again, like when those ska shows would happen, you know, the scanking, everyone's skanking, and everyone's just like having a blast, the energy you could sell, like those bands, I never saw, and I saw a lot of bands, I remember this band called Daisy Chainsaw, Australian or British, this amazing woman was the lead singer. She was a lunatic. She just had this crazy expression in her eyes, and she's got these huge long, like blonde braids that I think were a wig, and she's taking a teapot and smashing it against her head, and I'm like, oh my, you know, I just.. those things burn. Or burn memories, and, and I never really saw a band. I can't say that I saw a band that didn't seemingly have a good show at the TBC, you know. I went to, I've been to some other shows, it was a Jane's Addiction, second to last show, when Perry Farrell was wasted out of his mind, and you know, right before he and Steve Navarro got into a fist fight and broke up for the very last time, I mean, I've seen shows, you know, there's the Brian Jonestown massacre, who's, you know, imploded on stage a million different times, but I can't say that I have any recollection of a band not really seemingly feeling it at the DPC, it was the ideal place for a band of a show, you always had almost, almost always had great attendance, except for times when it didn't, like my friend Alan, who was also a part of the radio station with me. My I lived above me in Arizona Sonora freshman year, Alan went to see some band that nobody had ever heard of at the time, called Blind Melon at the BBC. There were 10 people, he was one of them, and he talks about that show to this day. He was like, they were amazing. There were 10 people, Blind Melon would eventually, you know, become massive, but when they came and played there, there was no one there, and you know, that might have been over a spring break or some kind of thing, like every now and then there was stuff, because Stephen was always booking things, there was always stuff happening, even when school wasn't around, because there was still a scene, and I would say most shows I thought were pretty well attended, but sometimes that happened, I'm looking here, and seeing, so here was, here was March 94 Now, one of these Green Day shows didn't happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=67.0,70.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: I can't remember which, which the date was, but that was Green Day Tilt and Lucy's fur coat, Lucy's fur coat on march 1, 1994 If you also look at the rest, I mean, listen to the rest of this, this month is Jawbreaker. Jawbreaker, you know, with Popsicle and Moss Fuzz, the blanket, Jason's cat's eye. Those guys played a lot. The Meat Men playing on Thursday the 17th, I think. I went to that show with The Swing Utters, Dead and Gone, Greg Ginn with Rigg and Stone Ombre, Voodoo Glow Skulls, Al Stona, we talked about them. That was pretty cool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=71.0,71.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: Yeah, it was just the sheer amount of incredible shows and variety that just is staggering to think about now, isn't it? It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=72.0,71.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: really is incredible. And to just to bring that through, and also, you know, so I'd mentioned that I wanted to circle back on it real quick. We were talking about the route between Northern California and the Southwest at the time, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but there was a thing called Book Your Own Fucking Life. Book Your Own Fucking Life was a publication, I think it was physical, that was put out through Maximum Rock and Roll, and MMR was a magazine that really covered in the ground kind of punk rock culture, and Book Your Own Fucking Life was a listing of places, venues, promoters, bands that all sort of that with contact information and locations of where these things were happening, you know, addresses of this stuff, and literally this was a resource for for Indian punk bands and underground bands that wanted to go tour, and they could just call up these phone numbers and be like, \"Hey, it's Mike from Real Facts. I want to come, you know, we're going to be coming through Arizona on this date. Can you guys host us? You know, can do a show, and sometimes it was, you know, backyard party addresses, you know, promoters and or basement parties, whatever it was. But this really allowed for this was a resource that allowed for these bands to know that they could kind of go somewhere, these were people who were friendly to the kind of music they were doing, and their cause, and that they could at least probably get enough for gas money, and you know, maybe Taco Bell, and a place to crash, and so that's how a lot of these shows came together and happened, and and Steve was really just, you know, he was, he was a champion of that, and, and you know, he, to this day, he's, he's got solar culture, this art space, he's always, you know, renting out gallery spaces for inexpensive prices, still to artists and musicians and rehearsal spaces, and hosting art, and being a champion of culture, and I think having people like that is, is so critical, and you know, and they're really to be revered and appreciated,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=72.0,73.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: absolutely. So, you were definitely around then when the DBC closed down. So, what were your thoughts about when the DPC closed, and if you saw any effect it had on the Tucson Music scene?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=74.0,73.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: Can you remind me of the timeline you. Because I'm trying to sort of remember, I believe it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=74.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: 91 to 95 ish, is when it was, it closed, I think, I believe in 95 the research, and then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: you know about them reopening,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: I know that they did the DPC Cafe Luna Loca Cafe, which was what I understand, Bruce had kind of the control of that, the sound man brews from the DPC, but that's the knowledge I have of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: You know, look, I wonder, might have been the thing that was attached part of Toxic Ranch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: Yeah, that might, that might have been what we were referring to earlier. Now, like, think about that, that, because I were a cafe, but I never attended it until it was the Luna Logas or the DPC closed. It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: might have been that, and toxic ranch might have been inside of that at the beginning, like had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: some sort of presence, maybe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: Yeah, so it's weird. I'm trying to, I'm trying to recall that actually happening. I don't, all that I remember is sort of, I do remember there's some kind of, I think there was some issue with some neighbors, and every now and then, and in fact, I think there is, and I would love to find it. There is a.. there is a.. there is a passage at the end of one of the zines that's like that's it, you fuckers, or something like that, you couldn't behave, so we're done, you know. Yeah, I know what you're","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=75.0,75.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: talking about. Yes, I think this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=76.0,75.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: was the first time that it closed, and I do think there were repeated things that had to do with some of the kids, like I had mentioned, around the side, which is where the bands and stuff could load in from, also that was sort of leading more towards the residential streets, and I think that that's where the assholes that were fucking stuff up were kind of, you know, the hooligans were hooliganding, the hooligans were hooliganing, yeah, sure, and and so that I think was the thing that led to kind of the demise, I do remember there being sort of this sense of, man, you know, like really, is this is really happening. There was definitely that tease. I think there was an underlying tension the whole time that existed that that could happen. I think we chose naivete to kind of protect ourselves and to feel as though we had a space and we didn't have to worry about it. I mean, we're kids, you know. I was, you know, I was 21 by the time I left, you know, 22 I'd actually turned 21 by that point, but, but I do have this recollection of, you know, we definitely felt, at least me and my friends, or my friends and I felt as though Stephen could fight whatever the thing was that was going to get it shut down, either permanently or temporarily, and we'd seen him, you know, sort of do it, I think that same thing, like there was that initial threat of, oh, you can't dance in here, you know, and then everyone was like, oh, fuck it, we're just gonna do it anyway, and we did, and there was never a problem, so we felt as though I think, oh, this, this would continue, I do feel like there was a sense that this guy could make this all work out, I mean, he was significantly older than us in relative terms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=76.0,77.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: Sure,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=78.0,77.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: you know, if Steven is now.. I'm gonna guess he's in his mid to late 60s, I'm not sure, but I think you know he was probably 15 to 20 years older than us. I mean, if we were teenagers, yeah, he was probably 30 and something like that, you know. So, maybe 1020 I'm not sure exactly, you know, now those, those kinds of people, you just never know, but but it felt as though he was dealing with the behind the scenes stuff in a way that we just felt like he would always be able to, you know, so I don't have a real recollection of the actual end, except seeing that that kind of thing happened. I will look through and see if I can find that actual quote, because it's, it's sad and funny all at the same time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=78.0,78.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:1: Yeah, yeah, I know the quote you're speaking of, but I can't quote it myself. When it shuttered, you being on the promotional side, or adjacent to the promotional side, did you see it affect the bands that were coming through towns at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=79.0,78.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:1: Yeah, I mean, I think it did coincide with the amount of, you know, with the time that I was there, and when I was kind of getting ready to leave, I was pretty heavily involved in the electronic music and rave scene towards, you know, the last time, but still, again, I was going to shows all the time. Congress did manage to get a lot of bands through to that space, and I'm thinking now that I wonder if part of why no doubt wound up coming to Congress instead of the DPC may have been around the fact that the TPC wasn't open at that time, that would make sense and. So Congress is pretty cool, and, and you know, and for what they were, the hotel Congress existed for, you know, for forever, and Club Congress existed for as long as I can remember as well, so I think that they probably took a little bit of that, but I would say that that a lot more of the underground, and really, you know, more fringy kind of stuff probably stopped coming around that time until because there were not many, really many other places that would book that kind of stuff, and that had that that sort of size or capacity to make that happen, so you know there was really kind of, there was there were big spots, like the convention center, where the Beastie Boys played in 1992 or 93 you know. There was, I had mentioned the cellar, you know, which really wasn't all that active during that time. Then you had.. I'm looking now, and I'd love to mention to you the Fugazi show, because it's totally after there was a spot called It was Coyotes, that was the place where they did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=79.0,80.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:2: it, Coyotes. Okay, I'm not familiar with this place at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=81.0,80.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:2: So, this, this happened on 420 ironically enough, for a straight edge band, April 20, 1993 at Coyotes, 144 West Leicester Street. Okay, you can take a look and see what exists there now. I'm gonna guess it's a condo, but who knows. And it's advertised, and I'll send you the flyer too, so you can see it. All Ages No Alcohol show starts at 9o'clock with Fuzz, and it's DPC presents Fugazi, so that show, and of course, five bucks, because all the shows were $5 That show was one of the rare times that Steven, because he had a relationship with Fugazi, already brought a band not to his own venue. Like I said, I remember it was the only time I think I was ever at Coyotes, I remember it being kind of a, you know, again just sort of a square spot, but I do think it was like a place, maybe, where they had square dancing or some kind of weird, you know, country kind of stuff going on there, but Stephen got them to play there, and I do recall that I think the capacity there was 500 You can ask him about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=81.0,81.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:2: Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=82.0,81.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:2: I'm guessing it was a pretty legendary show, so I'm guessing he, he has a recollection of it. But everybody I knew went to that show, that was, and you know, we all wound up over at Coyotes for the Fugazi show, the $5 Fugazi show, and one of the things that I really recall happening, Fugazi was.. I'm not sure how familiar, you know, you are, and actually there's a great new documentary that came out that Fugazi just did, that is video of a bunch of their shows from different places and interviews with the people that shot the videos, but Fugazi was kind of against slam dancing, and you know the subtleties between smashing and slam dancing are, you know, can be discussed all day. I actually did my entry paper to Hampshire College, which was my first choice school, where I compared two different mediums of expression from two different formats, and I compared a photo from the six and two time frames. I compared a photo from the 60s of a peace sign spray painted on a tree to washing as both forms of youth self-expression and the sort of ideas behind that, and, and so to me, one of the cool things about, again, you saw this at the DPC, you saw, is really anywhere there's a pit, with the possible exception of some really, you know, violent hardcore shows, which existed less around where we were at the time, but it was that, you know, you could jump around and slam into people and jump and, you know, crowd surf and do all this kind of stuff, and if you fell down, or if you know everyone's in a circle pit, and somebody fell, everyone just picked them up instantly, right away. It wasn't about trying to physically hurt somebody. Now, there were those people that were there for that, you know, and there were jock punks that, you know, were like, \"Oh, I'm gonna go beat the shit out of someone, but I didn't really see those things, and I probably didn't really go to those shows, but Fugazi in DC had seen a lot of that, and they had seen people getting the shit beaten out of them, they had seen people getting really hurt, so they weren't really into the slam dance kind of culture, and so, and if people were being assholes, Ian Mackay would stop the music, point to that person and kick them the fuck out, that happened at this show, and it was such a distinct thing, you know, it was, it was the word of legend at Fugazi shows at the time, and I had never actually gotten to see it, I hadn't seen Fugazi yet, I'd always wanted to, but in fact, this is exactly what happened, and one of the amazing things that. Has occurred with the internet is that as Fugazi has built this internet archive of all their shows, this show, an actual recording, somebody had a recording device there, recorded that show, and it's actually available on the Fugazi archive, and you can hear the moment in which that happens, where Ian stops the show, kicks this guy out for being an asshole, slamming into people, you know, trying to start fights, whatever it was that he was doing, and it gets very awkward in the room, and he kicks the guy out, and he goes, \"Give that guy his five bucks back, and sure enough, they gave the guy his five bucks back, kicked him out, and you know, and the show went on, and it was amazing, and, and I'd say that up there with the crash worship, actually his show at the DPC, and some of those other shows, no facts in Green Day, and you know, in some of the, you know, some of the other just incredible Scott shows, and all the other stuff that happened there. This was one of the other DPC-associated shows that is super legendary, and, and that plenty of people will probably have stories about for you, if they were there in 1993","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=82.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:2: Yep, that's amazing. I haven't heard about this. This coyote space would they sell alcohol there? I mean, if the Fugazi show was happening, they must have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=86.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:2: no alcohol. And I do recall, and I think I'm right about this. I could be wrong. I think that there was.. so my recollection of the space is that it was actually like down some steps, so the floor of the actual space was down some steps, and you came up in this ramp, and then you came into a room where there was a bar, and I think they had the bar closed off, like physically covered up, which was one of the things that you could do, I think, in Arizona, and the laws at the time is that if you could lock away the alcohol, you could have all ages things there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=86.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:2: Okay, interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=86.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:2: So I think that's what happened, and they were just serving soft drinks and water at the bar, then. So, but yeah, the flyer specifically says no alcohol. Okay, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=86.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:2: I'll inquire with Steve and other DPC folks about this show, because this is interesting. Yeah, yeah, you'll really, you'll love it. I don't know if I can share. Can I share something to you on the Zoom thing? Well, yeah, you just sent it to me, so kind of closing up. I mean, this has been a really wonderful discussion. You've had really great insights. Just kind of leaving, leaving this talk. What do you feel the DPC, how it impacted your life overall, like in the time that you spent there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=86.0,86.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:2: Yeah, I'm so insanely grateful for it. You know, I have two kids now, they're 21 and almost 18. My younger one has this riot girl band, Monet Frica, you know, that's incredible to see, and we listen to so much of the music and stuff together, and my older daughter is really into, you know, riot girl bands and female all punk bands, and you know, along with other stuff, and we've had these, you know, and I've regaled them with stories about this place their whole lives, you know. I showed them pictures every now and then. Something cool comes up on the on the page that I run, and I started this specifically because this place had such a big impact on me. You know, at the beginning of Facebook groups, I was like, um, how is nobody, you know, there's nowhere I was, I every now and then searched YouTube for a clip or something, but there was nowhere for the people that spent time there to really gather, and Facebook was the de facto kind of online gathering spot at the time when we started this, maybe 15 years ago, I'm not sure exactly how long ago, so I started this page because I revered it so much, and you know, nostalgia is one thing, but, but the ability to kind of discuss the impact and relive moments, and also see comparative perspectives of how you remember something versus how somebody else that was there also remembered something, I think it's super important, and pretty cool, and so this, this on this page, this group that that I did was kind of my way of reaching out to all the people that did get to spend time there that were so impacted, you know, there's within subculture too that, you know, I say, like, once a raver, always a raver, you know, once a punk, always a punk, you know, once you were into some shit, you were just always.. it's always got a place in your heart, and the DPC had such a massive effect on me, in terms of providing a space, create, you know, bringing these shows through, triggering these memories that just make me feel great, you know, and, and that I love to talk to about. If you're into music, you love to talk about music generally, and so people that like to have and have experienced those kinds of things love to share and discuss and remember it, and, and, and I love to do that, you know. If I have any, you regrets it's that I didn't take pictures there myself, and you know, even though I had a video camera for documenting electronic music, I didn't really film stuff at the DPC myself. I think that's the kind of one thing that I was, you know, that that sort of bum. Me out, but man, was this place special, and, and you know, places like this I know existed around the country in different forms. You had the 930 club in DC, you had Gilman Street in Northern California, LA was a little different, it was so much more spread out, so there were a lot of different spots that had different things in different eras, but during this particular time frame in this particular space, you know, so the, the sort of early and mid 90s in Tucson, Arizona, for something like this to exist, for it to be the one thing was was everything, you know, it really was the the opportunity to be right up there with these bands that we adored, that we love, to have a space where we felt at home, to be around people like us, and to experience these incredible shows that live on either in our memories, in some pictures and videos, in these pages, in this project that you're doing, it was incredibly special, and I'm so eternally grateful for it. I'm eternally grateful to Steve and I, and to all the people that were involved in it, you know, the people that I knew and the people that I didn't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=87.0,90.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:3: The few times that I got to, you know, work the door there, that was always cool if we were doing that show, and and I'm just, you know, I'm thrilled that somebody shared the same kind of vision of the thing that, that we all wanted and we're craving, and that, you know, Stephen was willing to do what it took to make it happen, to make the, I'm sure, sacrifices that were, you know, necessary for doing those kinds of endeavors, and really putting his heart and soul into something that affected so many people. I think that was, that was really huge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=91.0,90.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:3: Yeah, we're all eternally grateful to Steve and I, and I'm grateful to you for creating this, this Facebook page, because it led me to so many great contacts, so thanks. My","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=91.0,91.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:3: pleasure. I'm so glad that that worked out, and, and that that was cool, and this was real thrill. I'll send you some, some of those things, and if you want to email me, you know anything, or if you have any other questions, or follow-ups, or whatever, I'm happy to participate. I'm really looking forward to seeing this thing and seeing how it all goes down. This","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=92.0,91.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1  1:3: is great, man. Thanks for your time. I'll talk to you soon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=92.0,91.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2  1:3: Absolutely, Tre. Take care. Bye.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647#t=92.0,94.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3707/collection_resources/174192/file/313647/transcript/95126/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/095/126/original/azu_ms858-004_m_transcript.vtt?1783374367","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/095/126/original/azu_ms858-004_m_transcript.vtt?1783374367"}]}]}]}