{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/jm23b5z340/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["James McNulty"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 2, tape 15"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","McNulty, James F., 1925- (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1998-07-09"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with James McNulty conducted by Julie Ferdon. McNulty discusses his relationship with Morris Udall, who was student body President while they were both students at the University of Arizona. Udall appointed him as Assembly Chairman of the student government. McNulty worked on the campaign of Stuart Udall for Congress. McNulty served as a Congressman from Arizona and worked with Morris Udall, also working on Udall's 1976 Presidential campaign."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.024 (uid)","MS396.025 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with James McNulty conducted by Julie Ferdon. McNulty discusses his relationship with Morris Udall, who was student body President while they were both students at the University of Arizona. Udall appointed him as Assembly Chairman of the student government. McNulty worked on the campaign of Stuart Udall for Congress. McNulty served as a Congressman from Arizona and worked with Morris Udall, also working on Udall's 1976 Presidential campaign."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - azu_ms396-024_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2562.216,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/299/original/azu_ms396-024_side1_a.mp3?1744847826","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2562.216,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is tape number 15 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good morning. It's Thursday, July 9, 1998 and we're at the office of James F McNulty in the law firm of Brown and Bain at suite, 19 101 South Church, Tucson, Arizona. My name is Julie ferdowan, and I would like to welcome Jim McNulty to another in a series of oral history interviews that formed the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Jim, I'd like to thank you for your participation in this project, and start with just a little biographical information. You were born on October 18, 1925 I was is that correct? Yes. And you graduated from Boston Latin School, yes. Could you tell me something about Boston Latin School?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1.0,46.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It's the oldest public school in North America. It was founded in 1635 in Boston, five years after the Puritans took over the city of Boston, and it has functioned from then till now. Today, it's a school of about 2500 about half men, half women. In my days, it was strictly a boy's school. Has about 2500 kids in it, and all the great names of the American Revolution are Latin School people Benjamin Franklin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=47.0,84.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the same building as Ben No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=85.0,87.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, although it's the same building since 1920s that I attended here we are 70 plus years later, and it hasn't been changed very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=88.0,99.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is it a fairly traditional education? It's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=100.0,102.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a six year school. You're required to take Latin six years. The emphasis is on language. At one time, I was taking English, German and French and Latin and one science course that's in the tradition of the transcendentalists and Oh Henry Thoreau, and who wrote The essay on self reliance, the head of the transcendentalist movement, of course, that would have been in in shortly before for the revolution. It's a public school. You You go there by grades and an examination. And it is regarded as a very formidable education, which it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=103.0,169.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You graduated from there in 1944 Yes. Were you active in sports? Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=170.0,177.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was on a football team. I was a scrub way down the ladder, but I was on it, and we were undefeated and untied until Thanksgiving Day, when we played our great arch rival, Boston. English that year was, of course, war years, and there wasn't much in the way of entertainment. So it matched Latin School, which was unbeaten and untied, against Boston English, which was unbeaten, untied and unscored upon. And we played before 25,000 people in the old Braves field. And it was a scoreless tie. I was more interested in the track, though. I ran four years at university, at Latin School, and then I ran for Boston College, subsequently, later for the University of Arizona","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=178.0,241.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and and still later for the Senior Olympics. Well, that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=242.0,245.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a great deal later. Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=246.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1945 44 you joined the US Army for 18 months. Where did you serve?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=250.0,257.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was inducted at Fort Devens, Massachusetts, where my father had been inducted at the start of World War One, and I was finally shipped off to Fort McClellan, Alabama, which was an infantry training center. I completed basic training and was held over as what they call cadre, and I got to be a corporal, and I stayed there until I was discharged in september of 1945 What did you do then I took a test and got myself admitted to Harvard. And did you then attend Harvard? I did not my. Health was poor, and I traveled westward and came to Tucson, Arizona, not for any reason that I can think of. In retrospect,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=258.0,311.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it just did it sound exotic to you or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=312.0,314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I was Trent was having to be in a network Southwest, and I knew that. And I think I thought that the school here was Arizona State. I don't suppose there were over much, over 1500 students the university in January 5 of 1946, when I arrived on the Californian a day coach from Chicago to Tucson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=315.0,344.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So that was in 1946 in January. When did you enroll at the University? Immediately,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=345.0,349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yes, I went to see Mr. Lesher, his son's a lawyer here in town, and his granddaughter, I'm sure you know her activity in politics. I brought my transcript with me. I guess people trusted students with transcripts not to bring them hooked up or fraudulent transcripts. And I showed that to C Zehner lescher, the registrar, who had a very classical bent himself when he was most complimentary about Latin School, about which he had heard. And I was admitted on the spot. I was entitled to the GI Bill, and I began school within a matter of days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=350.0,410.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did in 1940 which was six years before Moe had entered the university for only one year before he went off and was served in the military as well. In 1946 he returned to the university and ran for student body president. He was opposed by a fraternity man from Boston named Bill O'Brien. Did you know this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=411.0,438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: person was from Los Angeles. He was from Los Angeles. His sister was something of a movie star, and later married a man named Justin Dart, who was the head of the Rexall corporation based in Boston. And Dart moved Rexall to Southern California and met O'Brien's sister at that time, I think he was divorced then, and married the O'Brien gal. In the meantime, a fellow named Bill O'Brien, who came from Southern California, had met a woman from Boston whose family were all time financial house folk. I think the, I think the company was called pain, and it may be the, at least the spiritual parent of the current pain Weber company, although I'm sure it's gone through a number of hands since then. So O'Brien came here to go to the university, and he did run for student body president as the nominee of the Phi Gamma Delta house and solicited me to be his campaign manager, which I did unsuccessfully.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=439.0,529.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do you remember anything about the campaign? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=530.0,532.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we did a big torch light parade. I think I'd seen that in a motion picture or something, and we marched through the Sorority and Fraternity Row the houses over there, I guess, around First and Second Street and between Campbell and maybe Highland or mountain. And it wasn't a blow out, but Mo, being in Arizona and being a man of great competence was the winner. And Moe promptly reached out and gave me a position as tradition, as assembly chairman, and gave O'Brien something else so there'd be no wounds coming out of all this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=533.0,590.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you know? Do you remember what Mo's campaign did? Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=591.0,596.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He said, This is no. Not a ceremonial thing, and these aren't a bunch of 18 year old children here. They're adults, and they know what they're doing and where they're going, and to a large extent, he was right about that, and they intended to have a say on the methods used by the university administration, which was not greeted with much applause by the administration, but he insisted that he had to have an assembly once a week as his student body president, and they announced they couldn't do that because they didn't have enough classrooms and enough openings to accommodate all these kids who wanted to go to school. And he we, he demanded a hearing with Dr Nugent, who was the vice president, who gave us the hearing. And then he went back into another room, and he powered with a fellow named Alfred Atkinson. The kids called him alfalfa al he had come from Montana, state down here to take over the job. And the answer was, there would be no slut set aside. And Mo Udall said, Well, he said, I'm sorry, but we've got to appeal this. Where and when is the next meeting of the Board of Regents? And Dr Nugent left the room again and came back out and said, well, we'll figure out some way to allow you to do this. So Thursday morning, at 1140 we had assembly at the they now call it Centennial Hall, but it's pretty much the same building. It was then, and I was the assembly chairman, and my job was to have do anything that would get people there, and we'd fool around for 15 or 20 minutes, and then Moe would come in and read them the gospel, according to St Mo and stir things up a little bit like the fellow who ran the bookstore had a contract to run the bookstore, which was a pre World War Two, contract after World War Two, with all these 1000s of people, you know, six, 7 million American people, mainly boys or young men, for reasons not complimentary, but that were, they were a fact of life at the time quite I would get fraternity houses to put on skits that was one of the most widely liked event, and they were, tend to be a little bawdy from time to time. And we had a DR Herrick who was head of the Geography Department. He taught a course on economic geography, and he's a great favorite of the students. He was the chaperone, and I had to come down and bring the bring the skit or an outline of the skit, and then hope that the fraternities and sororities would adhere to their their skit and their preliminary draft. So we had some great time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=597.0,824.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was it mostly, mostly fun times, or were there serious things talked about in assembly,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=825.0,829.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: few serious things, but only a few.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=830.0,837.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Mo said, in his book, too funny to be President that the two of you worked hard and played hard, and he gave, in his example, some trouble you got into for organizing a mock shooting of ducks at Centennial Hall. Do you have any memories of that? Sure","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=838.0,856.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that was one of the skits the Sigma Chi and the Sigma Alpha, epsilon, Sae, they were, they were big fraternities, and they turned out big efforts. The Sigma Chi had a show called The British are coming. And the high point of it was when somebody jumped up the back and shouted, the British are coming. The British are coming. And at that moment, oh, 20 or 30 members of the sigma, chi. House, wearing red jackets and carrying women's braziers into which they deposited tennis balls and spun them around over their head like a like a sling, and then when they got it up to high enough speed, let go. Well, that ball was traveling pretty fast. They must have had 50 or 100 of them, tennis balls all over the auditorium, and it was exciting. And we got people to come back. Your mention of the duck. That was another one. I think maybe the SCE house in those days, there was a show called hell's a poppin was very popular on Broadway. There was just one, two and a half hour endless sight gags, and we kind of copied our plays on that show. So the deal was that I was supposed to be talking something about birds, and we had a guy in the in the audience named Bob Burns, who had one of these rubber noise makers that you blew with your mouth, and we call that a raz or a raspberry. So I had said the magic word, and he leaped up. We had a guy on the lights that spotlighted him, and he said, something about, are you giving me the bird? And I said, Yeah, well, I was quite willing to do that. Well, he said, I'll give you the bird. And he took a box that he had in the seat beside him, opened it up, and six or eight pigeons flew out, and I called for the police or the safety squad, which consists of two guys. One of them was named Dale chambers. Old long term family here in Tucson. George Chambers was the business manager of Tucson newspapers. Why chambers had this muzzle loading black powder rifle into which you rammed toilet paper, little pieces of toilet paper. And I said, Go get him or something. And he ran to the stage the center, picked up this gun and fired it. And I'd say a tongue of flame a foot long came out the end of that with 1000s of pieces of tissue all over. And that kind of brought things to an end. The pigeons, who were stunned by it all finally, in the scene I will never forget, got to one of the exit doors, and they just walked through the door like they were guests. They were not interested in having that gun go off anymore. And the last I saw them, they were outside the building and flew away. And I think no worse for the experiment, but that was kind of things that we did at assembly day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=857.0,1119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay. Okay. I've heard other stories of things that Mo was in, involved in as student body president, like something about a takeover of a bookstore. Yeah, that's what I was just okay. That was the Okay. Okay. And, and with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1120.0,1134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the GI Bill and 1000s of people going to school, this contract suddenly became a gold mine. I tend to think that they figured out that he, the guy, was going to make more than the President of the of the university with his this percentage contract on books, because the government paid for all the books. He just walked in. Gave him a card. Here you go five books on your way. So that was attacked and properly so. But there were things like that the artist series, we found out that every student had to pay $1 a quarter each semester for the Artist Series. And with that, they went out and hired people like Rubenstein, for God's sake, the pianist and well, the administration let all the members of the faculty, for $1 and a quarter buy into this too, which maybe you could justify but you could. Justify that the faculty took three or 400 best seats before the students were allowed to come in and ask for tickets. You got them for nothing. So that was attacked, and the method by which people were chosen to perform was attacked. There were no students on that board. So that was all changed around. And it was a formal Artist Series committee created, and it sat with the members of the faculty, not very comfortably, at the next choice of artists for the coming year. And when tickets were made available, they were made available simultaneously to students and faculty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1135.0,1245.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So he was a really active, oh yes, really active student body president, oh yes, he was, how would you describe the post war campus? What effect did the returning GIs have on the campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1246.0,1257.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I had only been at Boston College for 90 days, I guess. So that wouldn't give me much of a comparison. This school in January 46 was still a kind of a lack of days ago, something of a party school. We had our own polo team, and everything was very nice. The climate was so good that they were able to recruit pretty strong members of the faculty, not paying them money, but giving them a job in a nice climate. The students, though, tended to be veterans, and as veterans, I thought that they were really pretty responsible. They they knew what an opportunity this was. People didn't routinely go to college before world war two that we Everybody says they're going to college. They don't, and probably shouldn't, but the percentage, I don't know what they are, but I guess that you had three or four times as many people enrolling University out of the potentials after the war than you had done before the war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1258.0,1342.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So it sounds like it was an older and more appreciative Yes, student body, yes, and otherwise, during during college, Did Did you meet Tom Chandler at all during that time? Just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1343.0,1354.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: vaguely he was pretty near through by the time I got here, I was a brand new nobody, and he was a somebody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1355.0,1366.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you have any impressions of him then?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1367.0,1369.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, only that, whatever he was for, I figured, was the right thing to do. And but he he went. He probably was gone by, what, 47","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1370.0,1379.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: something like that. Yeah, I think he was, of course, the university","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1380.0,1383.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was the city of Tucson, well, maybe for the first 50 years of this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1384.0,1392.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: century. How about Chuck Ayers? Did you Charles Ayers? Did you know him in college? He's,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1393.0,1397.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think, a semester or a year behind me, and he was a bright comer. Everybody knew that right from the start we were still using the old system of go to the law school, prove you completed 8380 80 units, 82 something like that, with at least a C or average A being the best, if you could show those two things you were in, I think, I think there were 150 in my starting class in 48 by Christmas, I think there were half and then we went to the LSAT and all of that business. But I came up through the ranks as an LLB. I don't have a Juris Doctor. I can have one, if I may, or Dean heirs $25 but I'm not going to do that. Is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1398.0,1461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: there any functional difference between them? I don't think so. How about Marianne Ryman, who became Mary Ann Richie, who became a federal district judge. Here she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1462.0,1472.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was one of what, three or four women, she and Frances long, Louis Long's daughter from over in eastern Arizona. And who else? Mary Ann, maybe Joanne Dianas. Well, she might have been little after me, but there weren't. There weren't any women at law school. Mary Ann, Mary Ann. Was a trailblazer. My god, she was flying airplanes. I think she ferried airplanes from the from South America to the west edge of Africa, something like that. Yeah, that was the shortest land to land cord you could get. So they flew all the way down to, I don't know, was it with Brazil or somewhere in there, and then they flew into some African country, Dakar, Senegal, something like that. But that was to have a shorter trip as possible over water because the planes were not equipped with pontoons, there would be planes fighting the war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1473.0,1550.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did, did you run into Raul Castro when you were in college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1551.0,1554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did. He, he was a little further along. He, he came from down or Douglas, although he'd been born, I think in cananea, but they came across the line. It was a big family, and I think he was teaching some graduate courses. I think my wife took a course from him. This is way back there, of course. But yeah, he was a leader right away, and it was good company.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1555.0,1593.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It's quite a star studded class. You all had yes in you entered law school in 1948 Why did you choose law Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1594.0,1605.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was hanging around with nothing but lawyers, it seemed to me, and I still had some time, and The work at the College of Business was not difficult for me at all. That was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1606.0,1623.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: your major","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1624.0,1625.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: business program. But I remember thinking, I really ought to do something more with myself than get a degree in marketing. That's what I was going to do, get a degree in marketing from the College of Business there was no downside. You could go to law school, flunk out, come right back to business school. A number of them did that. But after I survived the first cut, I figured law was where I would go. I knew in time it would be tough, because my GI Bill was going to run out, then my athletic eligibility ran out, then a wife and a child. So it was Slim Pickens that last year or two,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1626.0,1671.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you were you were on, you and Mo were both on the accelerated program,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1672.0,1677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: accelerated only by your inclination, they had six, they think they had two, six unit courses in the summertime. And you could go to those and speed it up a little, but you still needed,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1678.0,1694.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: but you had, you had three years of law school, but only two of undergrad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1695.0,1700.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I started Jan of 46 and I graduated in June of 51 so it's five and a half years. So three of those would be at law, so I was two and a half at business school. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1701.0,1716.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, in 1950 you and Jackie were married, we were did? Did you live in the the married veteran Quonset huts?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1717.0,1726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: You was almost impossible to get into them, was it? And once you got in, you were allowed to stay until you graduated. Were large","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1727.0,1734.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: percentage of students married then, because they were older, returning","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1735.0,1738.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: more than than the race, than the percentage before the war. But as were they, a majority of the students enrolled, I wouldn't think so. No, we rented a house, sort of a house, right next door, across the street from the Tucson senior high school field","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1739.0,1765.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1949 Mo and his first wife, Pat Udall, were married. Do you recall if they lived in the Quonset hut? Or did they do like you didn't find something else? No, no. Did. Did you know Pat no after they were married? What are your recollections of her? Well, she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1766.0,1788.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was very glamorous figure. She was a graduate of what Vassar, I'm not sure. Yeah, I think so. And she was from a very prominent family in Colorado, and they did live here, and she had a bunch of kids relatively short order. And I remember visiting with her. She was very well. She was someone to whom you would not hand your hat by mistake.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1789.0,1832.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In during college, Mo was still involved with the Mormon church. I didn't know that well, as I understand it from talking to Tom Chandler. Tom Chandler recruited him to join his fraternity. And instead of doing that, Mo decided to go to, I think it was play basketball for the LDS fraternity or organization he still had, must have had ties.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1833.0,1863.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, you can imagine how steeped he was in that tradition by the time he got here. He was born in St John's was he not so he got down here. He's probably 18 years old. He had 18 years of strong LDS influence, that LDS church in St John's, that's where everything important happens, I think. And yet","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1864.0,1892.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he was, he was in college, involved, as I understand, with with attempts to integrate the sports program, and also he must have been at odds with the church, even by then. Do you have any recollections of when he split with the church? Or did he ever talk to you about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1893.0,1908.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know that he ever split in any formal sense. Did he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1909.0,1911.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I honestly don't know. I wonder if it was kind of a gradual moving away or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1912.0,1918.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, he was very strongly civil, civilly righteous oriented, and in this business of no black athletes, was a concern to him. And there were other efforts the veterans around right after the war, formed a chapter of the American Veterans Committee, AVC, so called, whose motto was, citizens, first, veterans, second. Well, you can imagine how the American Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the Disabled American Veterans, felt about that, and it carried on to the point where they published a little newspaper and called it the ruptured duck when you got discharged, first thing they did was sew a little patch over your left pocket of an eagle in a circle, and that became known as the ruptured duck. There was an effort made to pass a public accommodations ordinance for the city of Tucson. This was a Confederate state when I got here, in every respect, the Democratic primary was made, the decision Republicans. Lots of them registered as Democrats so they could vote for the more conservative of the two Democrats in a contested race. But it wasn't until 1952 that anyone thought that Republicans could do a lick, and that's when Barry Goldwater beat Ernest McFarlane. From then on, it's been a different game.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=1919.0,2039.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1949 Moe received his law degree. In 1951 as I recall you, you received yours. Moe went off and joined his brother, Stewart in you from Udall and Udall and and you were hired by gentry and Gentry. Yes, in Bisbee. Why Bisbee? Why gentry and Gentry? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2040.0,2061.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had run in the university as a track team, and Dr Larson was the head of the old border conference, and he found out I'd competed in some obscure meet as a sophomore a year that I was out most of the time with an injured leg, and he came and said, You can't run this year. So I went to the track coach, Lyme Gibbings, and the Director of Athletics, Jeff McHale, told him, I'm. In a predicament here, a wife and a child on the way. The two of them said, well, we'll think about it. And they came back and said, Well, we've never had a freshman track coach before, but we'll have one this year, and you're it, and that'll give you your scholarship. And I looked in the yearbook a few months ago, and my picture is in there as the freshman track coach of the 1951 team. Okay, now I'm finishing law school, and I'm on my uppers again. You know what that means? On your uppers? No, it's when your shoes are worn out. The sole is gone. Now you're walking around on the uppers the other that's pretty near what I was doing, and I went back to McHale and asked, he asked him find a job for me anywhere. And he said, I'll call some fellas in Bisbee. You want to live in Bisbee? I don't know. I'd never been there. He picked up the phone and called Gentry, and they said, tell him to get in his car and drive down the copper Queen Hotel. We'll interview him at high noon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2062.0,2185.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: High noon at the copper Queen there I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2186.0,2187.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was and interviewed. They said, Fine, soon as you pass the bar and let us know. So I went back to McHale and told him I had this job. And he said, it's a good job, and you'll do well, they're just opening up a mining camp. There'll be a lot of activity and a lot of law work and all of that business. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2188.0,2215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: there was and that eventually became Gentry McNulty and Kimball. Yes, which Kimball was that? William","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2216.0,2223.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: E Kimball, Mark Kimball's father? Okay, he was Cochise County Superior Court Judge for several years, but decided he had 11 Tucson to put all these six kids through college. So he moved up here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2224.0,2237.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, in 52 Mo was elected to Pima county attorney, and in 1954 Stuart Udall decided to run for Congress. Backing up just a little bit. Do I understand you were You roamed with Stuart Udall during college with Burr, you don't. Okay, okay. When Stu decided to run for Congress, as I understand it, Mo wanted to run at that time too. To your knowledge, did this cause any kind of a rift or any problem between the brothers? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2238.0,2278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, I suppose I spent my time with Stu in those years. He was running against Porky Patton for Congress in 50 years. And I was enthusiastic about it. I was something Cochise County, whatever. And I remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2279.0,2304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you were active with the party. Oh, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2305.0,2307.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think in 54 that I probably was first elected a precinct committee man. And Stu I remember came down campaigning, and he slept overnight at our house, which was pretty modest, and Mo was doing the other I did. I knew Stu better. I just was around him more often, but I'm sure I would always be considered a Stuart Udall loyalist and a Morris King loyalist. I remember Levi Udall coming to Trent Gentry law office in 52 he was little uneasy what he heard about his son Stewart, that he was liberal, civil rights and all of that stuff","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2308.0,2368.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: is that the first time he had heard that? Well, no, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2369.0,2372.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he found it. He heard it a lot more. He was running for the Supreme Court himself, and so yes, he's around pushing his own candidacy. He's getting some static about Stuart's positions. And I remember Levi saying to Jim Genter. He said, I don't know the Bible says that the sins of the father shall be visited on the son. But I didn't know that the sins of the sons were going to be visited on the fathers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2373.0,2408.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you work on that campaign Stuart's? Oh yeah. And after he was elected, did you stay in touch with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2409.0,2414.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: him? Oh yeah, of course. Those days, they got one round trip a year, and maybe two, but very little pay it was tough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2415.0,2426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What was your impression of him as a congressman? He did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2427.0,2430.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: all the things I would have liked to have done or liked to have had him do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2431.0,2435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was he fairly effective?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2436.0,2438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I brand new guy in those days where you pretty much fetched and gathered. I think he was influential, but it wasn't. It wasn't very easy. That was a Congress that believed in seniority and thought, if you want to really contribute something around here. Stay here for 20 years, then you then you be in a position. Committee chairmen were absolute despots, but still it was the liberal voice","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2439.0,2479.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: mo deferring to his brother running for Congress, decided then to run for the Arizona Superior Court and and lost from a ballot problem. Flute they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2480.0,2493.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: used, I think it was the only time they used those voting machines that Chicago had thrown away, or, I don't know it's some story like that, but anyway, you had, there was no requirement that the names be put on alphabetically and rotated. And I think Mo's name was actually on the second line. A lot of people never even got down to vote in that area. But whatever he lost, and was pretty wounded by it. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2494.0,2525.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you ever sense any any rivalry between the brothers? Sure, anything serious or or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2526.0,2539.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there were some real strains occasionally during the presidential campaign, but before that, I don't have any recollection of such. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2540.0,2552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm going to flip the tape, because we're just about near the end. Here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299#t=2553.0,2555.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270299/transcript/78618/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/618/original/azu_ms396-024_side1_a.vtt?1744913970","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/618/original/azu_ms396-024_side1_a.vtt?1744913970"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - azu_ms396-024_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2539.392,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/300/original/azu_ms396-024_side2_a.mp3?1744847830","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2539.392,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, okay, in 1956 Mo, chaired the Arizona volunteers for Adlai Stevenson and was a Democrat to the Democratic National Convention. Were you involved in that at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=0.0,12.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I was a very strongly pro Stevenson man. I helped to the degree that I could I remember being here when Stevenson came and drove a little parade through town and they came up stone Avenue when they got to St Augustine cathedral, Bishop gerck come popping out from behind the door, walked over to the car, Adley got out, and then shook hands most cordially. That's when didn't Stevenson stay down here at a ranch with Dick Jenkins was none of that's known. No, I don't know anything. I know. I've got a campaign metal or pin. It's a shoe with a hole in this in the so you've seen famous picture. Yeah, he Well, I really liked Stevenson, his oratorical style. He was a hell of a guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=13.0,89.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was mo the state chair. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=90.0,93.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He might have been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=94.0,97.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1960 you were on the Board of Governors of the State Bar Association, representing the Bisbee area and, well, Cochise County, Cochise County, okay. And Moe was on the Board of Governors representing the Tucson area, or, I guess, Pima County. Mo was also, at that time, chair of the modern Courts Committee to reform the court system. Were you involved? Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=98.0,121.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah. What was the goal? Went around making speeches. We changing the constitution. We've got to get the people to vote for that. And so it was just a never ending campaign of information and education. And there were people that were not for that. Some people, I thought they were just jealous of Mo, and he was a new face on the scene, and here he's involved in all these enormous causes, and he was suspected of being too vain by some, but it was an honest effort. We tried to vote mowing as president the State Bar. I don't remember how many there were. Let's say there were 12. We voted six to six in secret ballots. And we did it about 15 different times, trying to get somebody to change. Any one is enough. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=122.0,195.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it stayed. It stayed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=196.0,198.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I bet it stayed that way for three, four months or even longer, and then mo called up and said, the hell with it. It's consuming too much of our energy. We've got more important things to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=199.0,215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What was the what was the goal behind the modern courts initiative.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=216.0,224.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We had a system where everybody in Arizona could have could appeal any decision of a superior court judge, and we were swamping the Supreme Court. We had judges that weren't behaving very effectively, and no way to get their attention and get them doing things. We had a judiciary that had no age limitation. They stay there until they were 100 they didn't die. So it was a real massive overhaul of the judiciary Article of the Arizona Constitution, and it's proved to be most useful in the years that have gone by.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=225.0,278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: We see mo taking a leadership position here, as he obviously did on a number of things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=279.0,284.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Sure, while he's doing this, he's writing a book on evidence, a horn book on evidence. How did he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=285.0,291.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: get involved in that? He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=292.0,295.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the story is that he tried to, i. Fine decisions the old fashioned research way. And just thought it's ridiculous that there's no single source of this. And that led ultimately to the track called Udall on evidence, what three or 400 pages long, and I think it's still used updated from time to time, but he did that he was writing a book back in Congress for new congressmen. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=296.0,328.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right, certain a number, how it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=329.0,332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: all these talents in one person. It's hard to believe that generates some envy and jealousy and perhaps even anger.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=333.0,346.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you sort of refer to that a little while ago? Was this? Is this among attorneys, primarily that you saw this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=347.0,353.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: with the guy on the street. I remember I heard Barry Goldwater say something about Levi, Utah. He's a great man, but these kids, they're a different breed altogether. I know he just died, and everybody's speaking kindly of one another, but that's what he said. And when Stu ran the Bisbee daily review ran a front page story about being pals with the Henry Wallace party. What was that called progressives? Or, you know, Henry Wallace is, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=354.0,395.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but I don't know what the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=396.0,399.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, that's when you had the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, and the Democratic Party had Henry Wallace in it and decided he couldn't stand it, or he couldn't stand them. Over in the Republican side. Trump Thurman quits being a Democrat, becomes a Republican and then runs for president on the States Rights Party. So we had a four way race that year. When was that 5056?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=400.0,429.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Or 58","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=430.0,432.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=433.0,438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Truman in what 48 to 52 and then Stevenson in 52 and he lost. And Stevenson again in 56 and he lost. And then Los Angeles in 1960","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=439.0,456.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1960 leads right up to that John F Kennedy ran for president, and Stuart Udall was very involved in organizing delegates for him, as I understand for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=457.0,469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a long time. You know, Tucson signaled that it was coming back to life after these tough, tough summers with the first football game, which was as much a social occasion as an athletic event, and the first game was always preceded by parties and snack foods and all the folk kind of the unofficial establishment coming together before the first game, which would be held seven or eight o'clock at night, so there'd be a couple hours drinking in there and at the in at the 1958 I remember being with one of these parties. And Stu said, What do you think of Kennedy? I said, Well, I'm from Boston. Where would you think me to be? He said, he he can do it, and we need to mobilize right now. This was in 1958 Yeah. And I said, mobilize now. Yeah. He said, You know how the Democratic Party works. The county chair effectively casts ballots for most of the delegates in his committee, or he controls it. So you get yourself elected Cochise County chair, which I did, and which ultimately, in time, in 1960 was the place from which we were able to deliver the state to John Kennedy. And shock the political world","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=470.0,569.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was, was Moe involved at all, and he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=570.0,572.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but Stu was the main man. Stu told me that Joe Kennedy gave him a airplane credit card, and that he was to use it anywhere, anytime, and they'd call up students, they'd come up to Denver. Okay, where'd he go?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=573.0,589.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What was he a speaker for them, or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=590.0,592.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: mostly speaker, very high profile","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=593.0,595.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all over the country. I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=596.0,604.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1961 Stewart was appointed to Kennedy's cabinet. He was as Secretary of Interior, and Moe ran in a special election for Stuart's seat, winning by a narrow margin against votes, is that what? It was, 1000 against rep Mack, Republican Mac Matheson. Why was the margin that closed? You know, it was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=605.0,636.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: special election, and it was only for that congressional district. And people had kind of spent their energy and now to crank up again in this and it was a big, awkward district, God, I don't know how far north, maybe all the way to the Utah border, and the very conservative wing of the of the LDS folk were dead set against Mo and totally in favor of Mac Matheson. He was their kind of guy. So glory be to God. He had Gila County, he won by 1000 boats up there, and he had Cochise County, and won by about 1000 there. Anyway, one was all over with this relatively handful of people. Mo's the winner. And that would have been May of 1961","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=637.0,704.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What did was Stuart Udall able to help him at all in the campaign. Do you know if he was involved in stumping from O at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=705.0,715.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I don't remember him. And truth to tell he had just undertaken the job as Secretary of the Interior, and that ate up a lot of his time, and there were people looking down your collar in those days, you'd be awful careful about traveling for political purposes and charging it to the federal taxpayer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=716.0,741.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in in Moe was re elected in 62 by 56% against Richard Burke. Did you remember anything about Richard?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=742.0,752.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah, he was a very ingratiating, interesting, bright guy. The Republicans need more like him. He taught political science at the University of Arizona, and was very bright and was good natured, good fun. It wasn't a mean campaign at all. And I Burke was tied in somehow with what Louisiana State University, reaching way back now, he had Conrad Joyner, I think, as kind of a protege, but a liberal Republican. Jeez, that that's kind of hard commodity to sell in Graham County","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=753.0,805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in in two years later, Moe ran against and defeated a Republican by the name of William Kimball. Was this your former partner? It was, was that a little awkward for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=806.0,821.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, no, I remember during his campaign, he and I went some place, and he said, What are you doing around nothing? Why? He said, Well, I need a ride out to Alban on, could you take me? Said, Sure, they'll catch up with me. And remember, as he got into the car, he looked the bumper, said, Udall for Congress, front and back. Well, by then, Kimball had moved up here. He was a resident here. He's the best candidate that the Republicans ever did field against Moe? Didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=822.0,861.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he eventually become a supporter of Moe's? Oh, I think they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=862.0,867.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were very cordial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=868.0,875.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1968 you ran foreigner were elected to the Arizona State Senate. How long did you serve?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=876.0,886.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I ran in 68 and as 70 came along, I both decided I couldn't afford to keep doing that, this running back and forth from Bisbee to Phoenix every week. Weekend tough on my law business. So I said, Well, I don't think I'll move anymore. But just about that time, the Eagleton Institute at Rutgers University, headed up by Alan Friedman, or Alan, wrote me a letter and said, You've been chosen from Arizona for a two week conference at Marco Island in Florida, along with the enclosed list of legislators. So they had about two dozen of us, legislators, House members and Senate members, and we went down there and the Eagleton Institute had classes all day long, and really good, high profile people, Jesse Unruh from California. So anyway, that appealed to my vanity, and I said, Oh, they said a condition of your accepting this is that you run again, if you're not going to run again, the office withdrawn. So I ran, and I won. In that session the legislature, the Republicans redistricted this the legislative districts, and they put","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=887.0,979.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what year was that about? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=980.0,981.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it'd be 71 they put eight Democratic senators in four senatorial districts. Four of us were dead, eight incumbents, eight incumbents. Put in four so I Charlie AWOL from Stafford was the guy that had been put in with me. They didn't care which one went. They just wanted one less, because they'd had a legislature was either so close 1614 that it was uncomfortable, or a couple of times the Democrats did have a majority in the Senate. So I I told Charlie I wasn't running, and I was supporting him, and he wanted to do it, and I didn't, and so there was agreed. I dropped out and went back to work and comfortably so. And four months later, Charlie's dead of cancer, and the supervisors of Graham Greenlee and Cochise County say, if you want the job, we'll appoint Ty said, Okay, excuse me, and I went back up. So I did almost three terms, six years in the Senate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=982.0,1067.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You were in addition to the Eagleton Institute in 1970 you were voted by a predominantly Republican legislature as the most respected and able member of the Arizona Senate. What do you think was a key to your effectiveness?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1068.0,1087.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I didn't engage in any personalities, and I liked the work of legislator, and I think a law degree, law training is the most advantageous thing you could possibly have after a sense of humor. And I genuinely like the bulk of those people up there, especially Republicans. Doug Holz clause, he and I wouldn't have a difference of opinion once in the next 50 votes and Bill Jake when who was his excellent legislator, and he knew that philosophically what had to be done and what the Republicans wouldn't have him because he had a wife, Deb that was always out shouting About, we got to do something about the drug problem. They didn't like people bringing those kinds of things front and center. Scott Alexander and I got on very well, and I tried never to say anything that I would feel I ever had subsequently to be embarrassed about funny you should ask that you know who Bill hard is? No, I don't he was 26 years senator from globe. I want to again bring up Jim McNulty, who I greatly admire. He was a great addition to the Senate. His speeches on the floor were always entertaining and correct, and none could equal him in debate. He was liked by both Democrats and Republicans. He also took a shot at Babbitt in. He says, Babbitt called me a stubborn old bastard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1088.0,1207.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You're reading from Bill Hart's autobiography called my life. Yeah, it just came out. I got","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1208.0,1215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it two days ago. He he was, he was a little ambivalent about mo YouTube, you don't remember, but when we were districting for the 82 election, they couldn't get anywhere, because they couldn't get the majority in the Republicans. And the only hope was Democrats, and not many Democrats were anxious to join a Republican majority, but two of them named Swink and Hart said, we're going to we're going to work to do what's good for our district, even if it means working with Republicans to make a long story short, the bill passed. David's veto was overridden by Hart and swank joining the Republicans. Changes were made in the bill, mostly minor, but one big change was a request by Mr. Udall to give him part of Tucson was strongly democratic. We tried in vain to explain that Mr. Udall did not need this change, but he cried out for it. And of course, the Republicans were delighted, and that made it much easier to elect the Republican in the new district five. In that election, my good friend Jim mcnully was elected to Congress by a small majority in district five, but we could see the handwriting on the wall. The following election, Jim COVID was elected by a small majority, and has been there since. In the meantime, as I predicted, Utah kept winning by large majorities. To use my words, Utah can sit in his rocking chair and no one could defeat in him. Another note, Tim McNally was the one who held the district for Moe while Moe was running for president, and then stepped aside so that Moe could return to office.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1216.0,1329.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's fascinating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1330.0,1330.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's the truth with the bark off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1331.0,1336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You served when you were in Senate. You served under Jack Williams, yes, well, not under with I suppose. What were your impressions of Jack Williams?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1337.0,1348.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, he's a decent, well meaning guy who's handcuffed to old nostrums that are long since been surpassed by intelligence and common sense. He's the guy that single handedly, has seen to it that the legislators of this state will never get a good wage. We had a bill passed was it was a U dog the bill the U dog bill, it said a commission would be appointed every four years and recommend salaries, and those salaries would become the official salaries unless the legislature rejected them, which is the way the federal government functions today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1349.0,1393.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And when you say that was a Udall bill, it was a federal bill, well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1394.0,1396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I meant it was its since its life will stem from, in part, at least most pushing strongly for it, and he spoke up most forthrightly for that bill. And at the last minute, Williams said, Well, I'll sign the bill, but only if you say that the legislature's salary has to be voted on by the people. And I remember Harold gifts saying, I've been double crossed. That wasn't the agreement. They'll never vote a salary increase. So either it all goes or none of it goes. And I sat there, I was on the conference committee with Tim Barrow and Harold GISS, and we said, Have we got the votes to override him on this subject? And we decided we didn't, and we took the bill as it was, and the legislators are getting the same they worked today. They worked 30 years ago. Those bills","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1397.0,1463.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: to raise a salary just never pass, no, just don't. Raul Castro, who served under Moe when Moe was county attorney, and who was in college and law school at the same time as you and Mo was governor after Jack Williams, what was your impression of him as governor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1464.0,1488.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think he had all the right aspirations, but I don't think he was happy being governor, and I don't think he enjoyed. Doing it, and the fact that he resigned it and accepted an ambassadorship would tend to corroborate that governor's job is not ceremonial, and it requires leadership, and it really requires a sense of the system, a political judgment, if you will, what can be achieved. What's politics is the art of compromise. If that's offensive to you, you're going to make a very poor legislator, honorable and principled, but not good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1489.0,1537.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In the paper, just the other day, there was an article describing the state legislature as sort of a mean, thankless place to work these days, and a place of very harsh rhetoric. And certainly that's what we hear about the US Congress now, is this? Is this something new? Was it like that when you were in the state legislature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1538.0,1560.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I have always heard that. I remember when the last things Mo said to me, this place has just become a little mean. Well, 30 years ago was somebody of a like mine, probably, so I suspect it's, it's not a lot meaner today than it was 50 years ago. What is, what has changed is the the commitment and perhaps the rosy eyed views that people had about this business run into reality, and all of a sudden what seemed challenging and interesting and wholesome suddenly gets bogged down in politics, but politics is the way we're trying to run ourselves. Self government is a very challenging concept, and you, you You better have some sense of balance about the whole thing. You get 30 or 90 people together, going to be a lot of different views, and some of them will be repugnant to you, but you better stay away from that and stay with the issues. It's just that occasionally, by getting into the ugly stuff, we do bring about a legislative situation that in time we wish we hadn't adopted it in the first place, but I view a legislator as someone with almost a holy responsibility, nothing older in the Bible than the people who bring laws forward. And for my Latin School days, I know that a legislator is someone who proposes legislation, L, E, G, i, s, means law, l, a T, U R, E, from the verb Ferro, Ferra, Tuli, Latus, l, a T, U S, law bearer, carrier, someone who presents and proposes and brings before people. That's pretty solemn stuff. You know, people say guy will ask me in Bisbee, pointing at the Arizona Revised Statutes, where does it say in there that you have to pay your bills? I said it doesn't. It doesn't say that not human completely. What it does say is what I'll do to you if you don't pay your bill. That's the law. The law is a minimum tolerable code of social conduct and morality is striving upwards. It's not that they're mutually exclusive or that they're mutually antagonistic, I would say and hope, it's just that the business of governing ourselves and accepting the restraints that go with governance requires a level of sophistication that's not Common in the media today, they're all in show business, entertainers. They call themselves. Well, the TV is the worst of all. They're there. Those guys ought to come out with hats and tap shoes, tap dance shoes. But as the printed media sees itself being squeezed out of the the big bucks in advertising. What are they going to do? They're going to they're going to mimic the guy that's that's driving them out of business. I remember being in Washington and first seeing the new new. Newspaper machine that the Gannett paper. What is it called? The fake newspaper with all the color on it today? Oh, USA Today. USA Today. You know, newspaper not even remotely like that. On the second page, it says stories from around the country, and there's every state in the union. And beside the name of the state and union is a sentence, and the last one was Arizona, and it said Julie Fauci won the 200 meter freestyle in record time of 10302,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1561.0,1840.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what's your state news, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1841.0,1845.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, anyway, the kiosks, or the machines, or whatever that the papers are in, they designed a new one, and what it would look like a television set. It had the same dimensions, and it had the Oval Room and somebody that isn't an accident. The guy says the audience that we're looking for is going to respond to that. There we are. USA Today looks like a television set. So those guys are in entertainment business. And the newspapers, you know, they're in the hell of a shape to some degree, evening newspapers. They're really in tough shape. I don't know how they hang on. Aren't many left? No, the pattern of America, it's to come home, and if he does any news at all, or she, it's the nightly news. And Tom Brokaw says, Now in depth, that's become very popular. In Depth, we're going to talk in depth. I had a stop watch. I just come in from running. I do that every night nearly, and I timed it and it was a minute and 17 seconds. And that's a long in depth, yeah, because they have other in depths that are 30 seconds long in depth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1846.0,1927.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In while you were in the state legislature, Mo was making headlines in some fairly controversial ways in 1967 at the Sunday evening forum here in Tucson, he announced his opposition to Vietnam. Did Did you know in advance that he was going to do that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1928.0,1950.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, he talked. Nobody could fairly claim to be surprised by that, but to take a formal stance against his brother and the administration and the President, took a lot of guts. Why do you think he did it? He just felt that, in all intellectual honesty, this thing can't be justified. It's destroying our we are destroying ourselves with this. Egos are getting in the way of common sense, and he was elected to call a spade a spade, and here it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1951.0,1990.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you think at that time he had any presidential ambitions?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1991.0,1994.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't think so. I think he probably, as he finished the speech and walked off the stage if he said they had any thoughts about President was that's the last of it. I'm about to say with this speech, that would have been the predictable response.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=1995.0,2012.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you hear this? Hear the speech? No. You The same year, 1967 he went up against the house seniority system by running against Speaker John McCormick, and about three years later, 1970 challenged Hale Boggs for the majority leader. In both cases, he lost handily. Obviously. Did Moe ever talk to you about either those races? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2013.0,2039.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: I don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2040.0,2048.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: have any specific recollection. I'm reasonably sure we would have but I can't, I can't think of an instance I was like mine on Vietnam, and I got more to send my secretary son to West Point, He was killed at play coup in Vietnam. Boy, I boy. She was a widow, and this guy was grew up around Bisbee. He's great athlete, scholar, high grade average at West Point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2049.0,2098.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What do you think? The overall effect of Vietnam has been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2099.0,2105.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, for some, you know, it's a source of renewing their perpetual fascination with corrosiveness. For some, they want to dwell on the unenthusiastic reception that the veterans of the Vietnam War, in their opinion, seem to have received. I don't see that so much. I think there's a certain amount of, what would you say, cry baby, that's that'll get me in trouble, won't it, but it seemed to me the bulk of people that opposed the Vietnam War never did so out of any contempt or disrespect for those who were fighting the war, that Certainly my position when I spoke up on this at a gathering shortly afterwards, my position was our first responsibility of the people who are over there, their well being, their lives, whatever it takes, to insist that The full resource of this nation behind those guys, and it's not inconsistent to feel that way and simultaneously believe that this war should be broken off, that it isn't a matter of cowardice, it's a matter of common sense and what's best For the country that theoretically, is the vague yardstick that we use. So the fact is, though, that there'll be a legacy for the rest of the next century coming out of Vietnam. It'll be cited by anybody that opposes any military effort, anywhere, anytime. We'll always think about Vietnam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2106.0,2228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The candidate appeared in 1972 George McGovern was sort of the anti Vietnam peace candidate at the time that year, Mo chaired the Arizona delegation to the 72 convention as a muskie delegate, and worked very, very hard for muskie. Did you ever chat with him about his support for muskie, or have any recollections of why he supported here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2229.0,2255.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: My house was the headquarters for the southeast corner the Party ran its own election that year, and we could only have a few election places, and my responsibility was to phone in and show what the numbers were. I remember makolovi gone now. He sat there in the front room as we tried to sort out how this race was was going to go. The convention itself was held at the westward ho in Phoenix. And Mo had met with John Ahern and sister Claire. They were high profile sister Claire mcgoverns, and he said, under these rules this there's no games to be played. You guys got won so many votes, so you get so many delegates. So why? What? What are we going to fight about? Well, they were just determined to fight, even though what Mo said was right. We had whatever, 34 delegates, and McGovern got the number of votes that compelled him to receive 17. But they were wanting to cross vote in a way. You know, I'm for my man, but I'd like to vote in your election because I didn't like the person that, or I did like the person who was running against you. Well, it was, it was really kind of sad. You know, musky. God, he would have been such a well, that's another election. The thing that I'll never forget, I was there as Moe's Gopher, and this fight went on interminably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2256.0,2368.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is this in Phoenix? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2369.0,2372.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and Mo gets up and he's angry, his guys lost now, and he's he's up and he's talking and Bernie Wynn, who was still drinking and was mean then, and wrote the political stuff for the Republic, wrote a story about Udall this big, clean, new, modern, everything above. Board candidate met in a gig in a smoke filled room in the westward looked last night and divvied up the shares, and now they'll throw it out to the peasants and so on and so on. Moe was really angry. He said this meeting wasn't to do anything other than to agree that the numbers were as shown by the voting and to pick the delegates, and each was going to pick their own delegates. And this suggestion here that somehow I or somebody else put anything over was absolutely silly, because I want you to know that everybody in that room was free, white and 21 and of course they went, and then he thought, Geez. And fighting, not fist fight, but arguing, broke open all over the floor. Ambassador Mahoney said, this is time for me to ride to the rescue here. And he ran up the front of the room and he grabbed the microphone. He said, you've got a leader like Udall and McGovern over here, and all this turmoil. It's terrible. It's disgraceful, he said, and tell you what you remind me of a Chinese fire drill. I No, well, the booze were palpable, then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2373.0,2486.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: going from bad to worse. Can","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2487.0,2488.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you imagine that? Did anybody tell you these things? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2489.0,2492.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I remember some of it because I was elected an alternate for muskie and went to the convention. In Miami as an alternate and I remember my own, you know, just discomfort. There were there were obviously things going on, and Mo was obviously somewhat upset at what was going on. And I remember that it was the year of the youth vote, the first time the 18 year olds had the vote, and I was 18, and there were two of us who, who got to be actually, I think I was older than 18, but we were the first of the youth, youth vote. I'm going to need to flip this over before we start again. Here. Do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300#t=2493.0,2495.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270300/transcript/78619/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/619/original/azu_ms396-024_side2_a.vtt?1744914005","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/619/original/azu_ms396-024_side2_a.vtt?1744914005"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - azu_ms396-025_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2664.984,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/301/original/azu_ms396-025_side1_a.mp3?1744847834","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2664.984,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, Okay, we're back on the air here in November. On November 23 1974 in New Hampshire, Moe announced his candidacy for President of the United States. Did Moe ever talk to you about running before he announced? Yeah, did he seek your advice or Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=0.0,22.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he, I don't remember the exact words we talked about it, and the possibility I was, I was concerned with what he was going to try and do in terms of recruiting members of Congress to help him. I thought that he had to look there for help in a very strong, very strong way. And he did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=23.0,50.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was that before the colleagues of his all signed a petition urging him to run, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=51.0,57.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that was later on. I think that the just kind of floating the idea past a lot of different people. Initially, it would be the bright eyed, the Bucha folk, the really tough, hard boiled guys. We save them for later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=58.0,82.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What Why do you think he ran? What do you think his primary motivations were?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=83.0,91.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that he's a man of so many talents that this just seemed to be something else he could undertake. He had the ability and political skills. He was healthy and widely respected. I think he stayed pretty sanguine about things. I don't think he was one to get carried away with the enthusiasm of the moment. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=92.0,129.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you work on the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=130.0,131.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: campaign at all here? Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=132.0,134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do you remember what you did or what role you played?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=135.0,140.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It would have been probably talking to a lot of the folks who were already converted the things that he wanted to do and how wholesome that would be for the state. The campaign was probably as well organized as it could have been under the circumstances, but there were those tides of opinion and feelings when the stakes get as big as they were in this really gets to almost overwhelm you, and small things get magnified way out of proportion, either way, you hear something that really pleases you, and you are fascinated by that and pleased by it, but it wasn't that important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=141.0,214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In the end, Moe lost 22 primaries, finishing second, and I believe seven of them. What do you think were the primary factors leading to his defeat? Do you have any thoughts about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=215.0,230.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Nobody, is this not true. Nobody from Congress has ever gone to the President. That's correct. Yeah, there's, an historical lag with a statistic like that. It just kind of permeates the proceedings, perhaps never being specifically identified I have with expression now. I've been there and done that. Been there that means I don't want to do it again. Well, it's the opposite. This is I haven't been there and it hasn't happened. So the inertia of these people and institutions as such that unfairly, it accrues so terribly you disadvantage. I think of Mayor Coleman Young of Detroit, who said he couldn't vote for Udall in that the. Primary. Where was it in Michigan? Yeah, because he was from a racist church in later years, young apologized for that. But did that have any effect in that Michigan primary? And would that have made a hell of a lot of difference if it had not been said, I think so young just didn't know what he was talking about. Somebody told him, Oh, the LDS doesn't consecrate black people bishops, so that's all we need to know about this guy. Mo made a speech to a peace group in Washington, which he said he'd be willing to try unilateral disarmament. I don't know. Is that widely heard? Had you ever heard that said before? I don't remember that. No, I didn't hear it. It was printed in common wheel magazine, so it hadn't been done, and it wasn't being done, and this guy hasn't got any kind of a power base, and he's kind of a troublemaker too. He stirs things up with various efforts. I can't believe Mo was ever unkind to people. I never heard him speak an unkind word about anybody he he was double crossed by some people who just ought to know better. Who was the Irish guy from Detroit, O'Hara United Automobile Workers, Jim O'Hara, kind of a big name, Birch, by another guy Moe had every reason believed was going to be in his corner. Moe looks down at the newspaper, and he's sitting in the newspaper clipping says Bai going to test the water. So that's why Bai was going to help moe by running himself for president. That didn't go anywhere, and it shouldn't have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=231.0,433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And Frank Church,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=434.0,435.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Frank was another one, wasn't he? That was really disappointing. I didn't believe well, he wasn't around much longer after that. If that had anything to do with it probably didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=436.0,450.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1976 Democratic Convention, Carter was nominated. Did Moe ever? Ever speak to you about his impressions of Carter, or share with you his impressions of Carter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=451.0,464.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm not going to answer that. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=465.0,469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what kind of President do you think Moe would have made very good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=470.0,474.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he really had a sense of politics and the art of compromise, and with his formidable intelligence and a sense of humor, he had done pretty well, because he could walk into a hostile room and walk out with a bunch of adherents. You listen to him, you'd be persuaded by him that he knew what he was doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=475.0,504.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in in 1980 Do I understand you ran for US Senate, I did and who was? Who was that against? Who was what? Who was that against? Who was your opponent? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=505.0,518.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Frank depoli, I a kid born and raised in globe and later became a medical doctor and did sports medicine, good fellow and and I knew I could beat him, but a guy named Bill Schultz decided right at the end that he was going to run and that he was going to spend $1,300,000 doing it. He he did both. We proved that he couldn't raise that amount of money. We didn't know he'd write himself a check. They weren't doing that in those days. Guy writes himself a check for a million bucks for his campaign,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=519.0,565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: hard to compete against that. Oh yeah, he buried I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=566.0,568.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: won Cochise County. That's nice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=569.0,574.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In in 80 to 83 you served on the Board of Regents. And then in 1982 you ran for and were elected to the US House of Representatives. Before, before we get into that, I'd like to just ask you a couple questions about the 1982 redistricting plan, apparently, Mo and a number of de. Democratic associates threatened to take the legislature to court. Over, over that redistricting plan, did they what are your recollections? Okay, that's okay. What do you think the legislature's motivation was in the redistricting to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=575.0,619.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: to clear the way for Republican domination.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=620.0,624.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And this was the redistricting that lumped eight incumbent. That was an earlier, that was the earlier. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=625.0,630.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we got a 60, a 70 and an 80. Census, and the mandatory redistricting that comes out of the census. Okay? I was there three times. I had a different district each time. I always lived in Bisbee. At one time, the Arizona Sonora desert Museum in Bisbee were in the same senatorial district. That takes a stretch. Sure","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=631.0,660.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: does, really does as to your house race. What? What? What prompted you to run","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=661.0,669.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the house race for I was certain I could win. The numbers were there slight democratic registration advantage, and in terms of voting patterns, Republican advantage, well, I I'd had pretty good profile with the Board of Regents that helped me out, and I ran before the district was finalized, I just called people together on St Patrick's Day and said I was going, did mo encourage you to run? Oh yeah. He thought that's fine, and said he'd help me any way he could, and he spoke kindly for me back in Washington among the political action committees.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=670.0,729.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How close was the election? In the end? Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=730.0,734.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I beat COVID by 2500 votes? 2500 Yeah, it's more than Moe won by 30 years before,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=735.0,746.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when you went back to Washington Mo. Mo had, as you mentioned before, in 1968 Moe had written a book called The job of the congressman, which was more or less a job description for incoming freshman Congressman. He also had been instrumental in starting a school for incoming Congressman, I think it's called the freshman Senate seminar. Did you attend that? When you went back there and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=747.0,771.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did this freshman seminars, but I didn't remember that it was Moe's idea. I thought it was the party's idea. I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=772.0,777.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he was I think Stewart actually may have been one of the first to instigate the seminar. And I think mo followed up on it, as I understand, we had a week,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=778.0,790.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a week of preparation, and they brought in all the heavys. It was very explanatory. It was a hell of a lot of stuff you got to learn in a hell of a hurry. Is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=791.0,805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the book The job of the congressman, still useful? Or is that fairly outdated? Now I haven't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=806.0,810.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: looked at it in 10 years. I've read it most carefully whenever it was published.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=811.0,821.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Your first few months there, did did mo help you? Just get acquainted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=822.0,830.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Everybody knew, and I'm sure he told people that that I was his companion or, I guess you can't use that word today. That means","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=831.0,846.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: something different now, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=847.0,849.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they knew we were close.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=850.0,852.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did he? Did he offer you any advice","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=853.0,855.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: as an incoming we confer it all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=856.0,858.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was there any particular advice that you recall him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=859.0,866.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, he and I wouldn't. Wouldn't. Our votes were 95% the same","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=867.0,877.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in in his book too funny to be president, he he stated a view that no man ever, ever brought so much talent to the national legislature. In fact, you were the only congressman to override a presidential veto in the 20th century, as I understand it, that was after being in office only. For 1313, months. Can Can you describe what what happened?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=878.0,904.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: There was a continuing program studying water and the problems associated with it, and funded through the land grant institutions. Penn State University had a program where they're trying to find all the polluted waters, the heavy sulfur infestation as part of the mining process and the like the that that bill came up and was fairly routinely passed without a great deal of attention paid to it, and got to the President, and he vetoed it. Well over in the Senate, there was a senator from one of the Dakotas named Alvarez, and he was really offended. He was up for re election that year, and his University of South Dakota was one of the land grant institutions of this water study money. But mainly this was a good program and a good thing to do. So I went over to see alberesque, and he said, You want to try and override sure that'd be good fun. Well, he said, I have to get some Democrat votes, because I probably won't even get a majority of my guys. So we said, okay, and we set in motion the procedure by which this would come back before the House. And Jim, oh, I went to a caucus. There was just about a dozen guys there, tip and Jim Wright and Tony Coelho and Tom Foley. And I said, there's a bill coming up tomorrow on this water bill. And my legislative director, Dr John crow said that Philip vetoes are most often overridden if they are voted on the same day that the report comes back to the house for action. And Jim Wright said, Well, we won't be able to do that today. We'll have to wait until tomorrow. And tip said, the hell we will. He said, That's all I need to hear. Do whatever it takes. We're going to vote on that veto in the next 40 minutes. I ran it down on the floor and checked around with some of my Republican buddies, and they said, Wow, what did you do? You really got the White House upset? Boy, well, they're calling around now they're not going to let you veto that water bill. And I said, Well, it's a good bill, and I don't know why Democrats, why Republicans wouldn't support it, and it's not a lot of money. Well, the upshot of it was the matter came before the body, and I got up and said, I think the President was badly advised in vetoing this bill. It's an excellent bill done good work and land grant colleges about three minutes, sent out. Bam, they voted, and the Republicans voted, 67 to uphold the veto, and 45 to override it, and the Democrats voted 241 to override, one to sustain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=905.0,1144.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So quite an accomplishment. Wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1145.0,1147.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: even close. The tip came running over to me. He insists that I go back in his office and take a picture. He and I stand together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1148.0,1158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It's wonderful. By the time you arrived in Congress, a number of polls had been put in the seniority system by the likes of Mo Udall. How was the seniority system working when you were there? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1159.0,1174.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there's that class of what was it? 78 that tipped everything over. They made it a much more decent place. These men, these committee chairmen, would not have a committee meeting all year long, but they after the turnover. It wasn't as much of a turnover as it should. Have been and there's still things need to be done, but it was vastly different. I'm told, certainly you could, you get three signatures, you could force a meeting of the committee. So some of these old dinosaurs just had to face up the things that they could they didn't want to, and, in my view, made things much more open. I didn't have a sense of debate being foreclosed by gimmicks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1175.0,1235.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You served on the interior committee. I do, as did mo in 1984 the committee passed the Arizona Wilderness Act. Were you involved in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1236.0,1246.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that? Yeah, he let me do it on the floor. Oh, really, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1247.0,1250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What did the what? What did the ACT do? What was the gist","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1251.0,1259.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wilderness area in the Huachuca in the chirokawas, in the Mount Graham up in the galores. Mo let each Congressman pick what he wanted from his district, as long as it was responsible. Of course, some guys, they didn't believe in it. I think Bob Stump said, No, I'm not checking out anything. I don't think they ought to do it. So when that happened, Mo went back to the drawing board. He denominated the area that the Congressman wouldn't stump district. Yeah, I think Elder Rudd probably didn't designate much wilderness himself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1260.0,1308.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What who were the major players in that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1309.0,1314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in Arizona or in Congress,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1315.0,1316.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in the in passing the Arizona Wilderness Act? Was it primarily the Arizona delegation? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1317.0,1322.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not all of that. Mo was the overriding influence. Everybody looked to him for stuff like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1323.0,1334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What? What was your impression of Bob Stump?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1335.0,1338.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I'd served six years with him in the State Senate, and I have a very personal affection for him. He there's no Blarney about him. He tells you what he thinks and why he thinks it, and says, Take me as I am, or toss me out. So I've never had anything but personal, warm relationship and a view of him, I expect he and I didn't vote the same 30% of the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1339.0,1377.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about Elden Rudd?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1378.0,1378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Same thing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1379.0,1382.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: mo, mo has long been honored as being one of the most well loved and effective legislators. You had an opportunity to watch mo operate on the floor and with his colleagues based on those observations, what, what? What, in your opinion, is was the key to his effectiveness,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1383.0,1404.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: his intelligence and his thorough familiarity with anything that was being brought before you, and with total fairness in the expression of counter views he was willing to put into reports that there was controversy about this or that, some folks you know wanted a nice, clean record where it only reflected what they thought he would answer anybody's question. He never declined to yield on the floor, and he did an enormous amount of preparatory work before you actually get down arguing in the floor, or, I don't know, probably the most important dialog was markup. That's when the rubber hits the road. When you do that, committee markup, full committee markup, that's it isn't going to change a whole lot from that moment until the President signs it. Mo is very generous to guys too. He'd go, people would say, Gee, I don't really care all that much for your views on wilderness, but a lot of people in my district had helped me out. If you'd come along down there and talk to them, they'd love to hear from you. And he had really become a hero of youth and environmental and you. Ambitious kids, and so admitted nice climate. The only guy I ever criticized him was Phil Burton, who was a wild man from Sandy from San Francisco. What was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1405.0,1515.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: his criticism?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1516.0,1519.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He says, you know your idea of a compromise is to go in and say, Okay, you guys can have anything you want. Well, it's true that mo wasn't much into the game playing business. Or I'll swap you this if you swap me that. So Burton, he wanted to make it more political. Moe wanted to make it as politically palatable as possible, and if the Democrats or the Republicans liked it all the better. But you know, Burton couldn't get one Republican vote for anything that he ever did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1520.0,1562.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What do you have any examples of Mo's? Mo's ability to to bring consensus and resolve resolve disputes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1563.0,1578.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I remember an Indian bill, where he he actually talked me into voting away I didn't want to vote. That didn't happen very often. How did he do that? How did he do that? Very gently. I just I was offended by the bill. It had to do with Indians and by the people. Guy who was offering the bill, whose name was Packwood, whom I really grew to dislike, and I'm proud to say I still dislike him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1579.0,1620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Bob Packwood, yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1621.0,1624.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: give you an idea of moe standing there was a bill that had to do with the additional generators. The issue electricity that would be generated by the new units, new turbines being installed in Boulder Dam. So one school of thought said, well, the guys that signed up for this years ago took big chances. They ought to have first crack at it. Barbara Boxer, she was a representative then from Northern California, said, no, no, we're going to open this up to bidding while brand new. And Moe would say, Well, you don't have a system that's designed to handle that. Well, we will in time. Well, no matter went the floor, they called it the Boxer Rebellion. Kind of gave it a little cache, and she was very vocal, and it's time to bring it into these subsidies for these farmers in the West. We're going to do this and that. And Mo didn't want boxer's amendment, and he spoke very vigorously. But finally, the ran down the time showed, and Moe was losing by one vote, and the old fellow from Tennessee was the Speaker of the House. And technically, at 15 minutes, if it's a 15 minute vote, you hit down the gavel and say, by your vote of this and this, you have carried or you have defeated. So the box of people were starting to shout, vote, announce the vote. The old man just sat up there, just very calmly, and he would look down to moe, and Moe would go, no, no, and he wouldn't call for the vote. And Moe called me over and he said, Boy, this is a close one, but I said, I think I know maybe we can do some good. There's a congressman from New York named Bob Garcia, so I've been a friend of mine. I've helped him out in a few minor details. You go find him and say, Would you please consider changing your vote from yes to No? So I ran around the room. I had to find him. There were 300 guys milling around, and I found him, and I said, I'm from Moe. He said, I know. I said, Moe wants to know this is important to him. Could you see your way clear to change your vote to aye? He says, If Moe wants it, it's done. And he jumped up and ran down into the well, you had to take a card and you had to sign it and turn it in. And as soon as they did that, they read the card and said, Mr. Garcia changes his vote from Yes. Yes to No. And Moe looked at an old bill Naylor and nodded like that, and he said, by your vote of 217 yes, no, and 218 is 14, whatever less you have defeated the amendment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1625.0,1823.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's a wonderful story. In in 1979 Moe was officially diagnosed with Parkinson. So I though I think some people knew before that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1824.0,1837.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they did. Tom knew first. I think I knew second. Is that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1838.0,1841.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right? Do you know about when it was that you knew? Or I,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1842.0,1845.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: after I heard, I went right to Chandler, and I remember I was really choked up. I had heard he was second. I jumped to the conclusion was cancer. I didn't know what it was, and I remember Chandler saying, it's serious, but it's it's not as bad as you think. So this, this is what they've said. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1846.0,1876.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was that before 1979 shoot in according to Stuart Udall oral history, by as early as 1984 when you were in the house, he was already trying to encourage Moe to resign, wanting him to resign before his powers won. As he said, Were you aware at all at that time of,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1877.0,1903.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, that's, that's so wrenching, you know what? What's your responsibility? What's the fear thing? What difference does it make? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1904.0,1923.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Mo? What were your memories of Mo's condition at that time when you were serving","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1924.0,1931.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I remember saying, sitting in the front room with all the hangers on Aila and that pala hers, and it coined Terry Brady was Sunday. In fact, I remember that so well because mo got up and he said, The debate's over. McNally and I are going to see the Redskins beat the Cowboys. Goodbye, and we went up and walked out the door. But before that, we had been asked to say, should he run again? So what year would that have been?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1932.0,1974.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 80? Was that 88 well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1975.0,1976.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he, I would say, was in fairly good shape. I told him, don't do it. It's just too much. And about a week later, he announced to the press club that he was not going to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1977.0,1994.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But the ailment, oh, boy, you know, Mo had to wear trousers with Velcro. He couldn't button. So he had to have this Velcro, and it was hard for me even to pull the velcro apart to use the toilet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=1995.0,2019.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was there a time when it became obvious to you that you felt like he he really should resign? When was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2020.0,2030.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, certainly that data on Yuma, I never forget that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2031.0,2035.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that was the that you were talking about earlier. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2036.0,2037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: when that was his last race.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2038.0,2043.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So that would have been 90 was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2044.0,2046.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I guess he's 6130 years later, 91 he resigned in May of 91 so he'd been elected November of 9090. Right? Well, I remember being over here at the Ramada Inn week or so before the election, and I came up to see him, and they left the door cracked open. He was by himself. He was in a fetal position with a bottle of Budweiser and a straw, and that's how he was drinking the beer. But then a few nights later, you know, he walked through the. A hotel. What? Viscount, yes, he walked through there that night on a quote victory march. God, that was ghastly. It couldn't have lasted 20 minutes and got him on out of there. He could Parkinson's attacked his voice. He didn't speak loudly enough, and the people couldn't hear and then they had the head wagging business boy that was hard times. So 92 was when he fell down the stairs. January, I think it was 91","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2047.0,2142.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in early 91 is when he fell down the stairs, and that, that April, I believe, is when he when he resigned","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2143.0,2151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 91 Yeah, you're right. He did resign. It 30 years that sticks in my mind. Was April, not May.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2152.0,2158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I've got as April, you're probably right. Do you know anything about, wait","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2159.0,2164.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a minute, he he hadn't. When are you? When does he fall and backwards? And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2165.0,2172.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: early 1991 is, is it? Is all I have here at Yale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2173.0,2178.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So who signed his name on the 1990 in the April 90s,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2179.0,2182.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I understand, I believe it was norm Norma, who spoke to the speaker at that point or later. They waited for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2183.0,2192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So 91 to 98 seven years since, since he fell and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2193.0,2201.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: since he's been in the VA hospital,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2202.0,2205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I saw him about three weeks ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2206.0,2208.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were you able to communicate at all? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2209.0,2211.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not at all. None. None whatsoever. Bruce Wright and I went up there. They put him in the Capitol Hill society, Athletic Hall of Fame, and I got a letter from what's his name. He was second ranking Republican. Decent guy. Said, you come back and accept for Udall, and we'll pay you away in your hotel and meals and so forth, which was very nice, and I did so I had that morning and Bruce and I went out to the VA hospital.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2212.0,2248.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Mrs. Bruce, right, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2249.0,2256.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: getting back to your congressional campaign in 1984 you ran again against I did against Jim colvi, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2257.0,2268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he ran against me, right,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2269.0,2269.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: exactly. And this time you lost. What happened?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2270.0,2279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Regan carried the district something like 58 to 42 and COVID and I were 5050, 49","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2280.0,2295.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so the Do you remember the vote spread at all? Yeah, about,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2296.0,2305.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: see, I did know those numbers 2400 maybe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2306.0,2307.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that sounds so the primary difference you think was the Reagan landslide. Yeah, in on August 2, 1996 after a group threatened to out him, Congressman Colby announced publicly that that he was gay. Did that announcement surprise you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2308.0,2333.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't answer that either. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2334.0,2337.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: let me, let me ask you just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2338.0,2345.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a couple of other couple of other questions here, and I think we'll be done. Ed pastor was elected to fill Mo's seat after he resigned. Do you know Mr. Pastor? What are your impressions of him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2346.0,2363.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, he did long years of dues paying as a as the one Democratic member of the five member Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, I would think he 1216, years of that boy. That's a long haul. Well, he has gotten in on the redistricting business for the most recent one. He. And has transformed that district from a Pima County, probably Democratic district, to a Maricopa County, certainly Democratic district. So Arizona, so Tucson has one member, and that that worked out fine with Mr. Coby, who got rid of Pinal county, or a bunch of Pinal County, where he ran very poorly. So if a politician's first business is to get re elected, they they have done so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2364.0,2445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what? We've just just a general question here. We've talked a lot about most strengths, what? What if any, were his weaknesses? In your opinion?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2446.0,2458.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, he could be impatient with people. He felt if he explained something, he shouldn't have to explain it again. And I think he felt that he knew he had the background. He understood this as well as anyone, or better than most, or better than all. And I think people perceived more than was there. But geniuses are often done appreciated in their times. I I think he's paid a terrible domestic price. Wives, kids, and not not intentional neglect, but in terms of the greater good and the bigger picture. He had to do this, and he had to do that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2459.0,2537.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I think he feels badly about that, though I I don't know the kids hardly at all. I know","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2538.0,2555.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Bambi or thinking of Anne, she'd kill me. She and I did a thing on Mo, and we did that for a couple of the literary club and the graduate club I met. Was it mark that's running for running for Congress. Yeah, he's a big, fine looking, interesting kid, the good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2556.0,2585.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: looking Utah, I think he describes himself. He is good looking,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2586.0,2590.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: very good natured kind of guy I've met. Well, who's the other one? Tommy, that would be Stu Yeah. So I don't think I know. I remember being in their home in Washington, and Pat trying to prepare meals for all of her tribe and me and Jackie coming in on the noon balloon. Now,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2591.0,2619.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: is that Pat or Ella? Pat, okay. Did you know Ella? No, yeah. What were your impressions of her?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2620.0,2628.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: De mortuis? Neil, nisi Bonham est de mortuis Concerning the dead. Neil, nisi, nothing except bonum. Good est is supply a verb, said, spoken, felt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2629.0,2652.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think we're just about to run out of tape, and I know you have a lunch appointment, so I want to thank you for coming and participating in this program. Thanks, Jimmy. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301#t=2653.0,2655.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146507/file/270301/transcript/78620/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/620/original/azu_ms396-025_side1_a.vtt?1744914058","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/620/original/azu_ms396-025_side1_a.vtt?1744914058"}]}]}]}