{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/hm52f7kx5b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Mauro De la Fuente"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["The Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection interview 4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS533.004 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Documented Border collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2014-06-28 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["Spanish (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["interview"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Mexico (spatial)","temporal; 21st Century"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Censorship--Mexico--History--21st century","Freedom of the press--Mexico--History--21st century","Human rights--Mexico","Journalism--Mexico--21st century","Journalists--Mexico--Crimes against","Women journalists--Mexico"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["The Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection, MS 533"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante (interviewer)","Mauro De la Fuente (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio"]}}],"summary":{"en":["The Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection interview 4"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms533_004_a.mp3"]},"duration":1185.552,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/160/287/original/azu_ms533_004_a.mp3?1653516334","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1185.552,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287/transcript/37969","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms533_005_a.txt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287/transcript/37969/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Unknown Speaker  0:01  \r\nThank you very much for participating in our research. today. We wanted you to start with telling us your name and your title or what you're doing. And then tell us a little bit about your education, your age, and how many years you've worked in journalism.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  0:18  \r\nOkay? My name is Manuel de La Russa and I'm a reporter for high school sports magazine. I have my age is 46. I've worked 20 years in the business, still currently working so mostly in hard news. Covering bases. I've worked in Texas, I worked in Arizona, I worked in California, and Texas in Arizona, I covered a decor parts of the border. So what was Oh, my education, I went to the University of Southern California, I graduated in 1991. With a BA in journalism.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  0:57  \r\nThank you, if you could tell us a little bit about your your work, the different types of things you've done along the border and maybe how the different border communities have different issues.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  1:11  \r\nSure. I was saving my initial while I worked here in Victoria back in 1993. And when I worked there, when I started there, you really didn't see a lot of border patrol agents or customs officers. It was rare you saw them. But you know, this is more or less the route that smugglers take. They basically cross the border here in Laredo, or whatever the case may be. And they take everything to Houston and from Houston is where they take her on everything north. And Victoria is considered the crossroads. So it's on the way to Houston. So it will see stuff who you know, you know, not so much. I will tell you, I worked there twice. And I saw the difference in 2002. When I worked there, which was about a 10 years later, I saw a big difference in terms of the more smuggling, the more bailouts, what they call them. And so you saw a dramatic difference in terms of that type of stuff. I also worked obviously, I worked in Tucson, so we call it Nogales. And I know that I'm a recovering a little some of the drug tunnel stories. Of course, that was probably the big thing back in the 80s. And the 90s. Was, was the was the drug tunnels. That was that was the thing. Well, smuggling was always an issue, but it was not really that the same thing as it is now No, no, a lot of the tunnels office has been had been founded. They have a lot of technology in terms of law enforcement. So then in 2002, I came I guess I came to Victoria, I was here when the all those immigrants died and suffocated in the inside of the back of the trailer. So I covered that. And like I said, after that, I would say you started to see a bigger presence of border patrol agents. I mean, you actually see them in cars driving around, you didn't see that 10 years prior. And then remember after that I remember all the quote unquote hysteria on them national media came here. And we're one day they actually caught somebody at a restaurant restaurant there in Victoria County, and everyone was over there and was ultimately became a big issue. You know, so it's kind of kind of different, in the sense because Victoria is a small markets market size that actually has been swallowed up is another part of San Antonio, when I went there was a market size to 15 There's like there's only 10 or 15 markets. So it's a real small city. So you know when people are not walk or not, they're, you know, outsiders, these recognize them. And then on top of that, so then after that I came here I worked here from 2003 to 2007. And of course I saw a lot of it firsthand. We used to go into Mexico. I went there and I then that's in Brownsville moto Moto, yes Bronzo moto models. I was actually the bureau chief for Channel Five carrier GV, my station it and Victoria was K Vu. And then of course, Kagan and Tucsonans other station. So when I came to carry GV, I became the bureau chief here. And so we used to go into Mexico, we used to go cover stuff I went for, I went for I remember we were five, they had to transfer a drug lord into the federal prison here and moto models and five agents were killed, basically massacred an attempt because they were upset about his treatment there the cartels and so he was these five people were murdered. I remember also going once going into Martin waters in the in the business in the nightlife area. The business district were a drug lord was killed cartel member. That's the one where he had the he had the grenade on his on his he's worn as a necklace. He was getting ready to throw it. When he got when he when he was shot and killed was him and his his I guess his bodyguard and two women who were with him. So cover that and we went and you saw the violence stepped up and tooth out and that that timeframe. 2003 to 2007 you saw a lot more violence just you know, not as much as in recently there's been more violence, but you saw the violence is starting to ramp up at that time and still saw Got a lot of smuggling, still saw a lot of, you know, human, you know, human smuggling and stuff like that. Then from here from after that I went to K triple ITV in Corpus Christi, and my bead was the outline area. So I covered highway 281 and highway 77. And that's when you really started to see a lot more smuggling, as I told you that those are the routes they used to go to go north. So saw a lot more in terms of coverage out there, he saw a lot more chases, a lot more bailouts. This is when the federal government gave local agencies an opportunity to pull them over and actually\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  5:36  \r\ncreated some kind of law where they actually could actually act as for officers and actually pull them over and then hand them over to border patrol or CBP. So you saw a lot more of that. In those years, that was a 2008 to 2011. And then after that, I came back here. And when I came back here to carry GV to work as the Brownsville beetle chief from 2011 to 2014. You know, us because this, this is when you start seeing a lot more violence, the cartels does that doesn't and the Gulf Cartel are fighting so much fighting so much to the point where they don't allow us to go into Mexico anymore. So I mean, and now what I think you'll see a lot more of you see a lot more in terms of corruption amongst the board put on the Federal officers, and of course, some of the local officers too. But it's, you still see a lot of corruption. And that's what I would say you can see mostly now, you see you see the violence, but of course, we can't report the violence because we were not there, we have to base it off what we see on YouTube, or what we see when we call people there are some reporters are calling, they're like, Hey, what's going on with our hurt, I can hear of gunfire I could hear like hear violence going on, nothing's going on all everything's okay, I go, you're not telling us the truth. And they knew in New Zealand person, I can't tell you it, I go, I'm gonna get killed. So we kind of tell you stuff. And you know, so you saw the reporting over there is like people are afraid to report the news, because so many journalists are being killed in Mexico. So you saw a lot of that. So the actual the flow of information is a little different, in the sense that you're not getting started, we can we can go over there because they fear for our for our own lives. So we're back in the past where you actually would see it firsthand, you go there and and see the violence and see the people dead, or whatever the case may be, now we can we just have to trust our sources of trust the people that we're talking to, and sometimes you can't trust them. And I'll be honest with you, they're like they're lying, something's going on. And they're not telling us the truth. And but you got to just respect them, because you don't understand their lives are in danger. And then would you still see a lot of drug smuggling, we also see a lot. What I see a lot of now is a lot of smaller loads are now being pushed across because of the technology at the border because of the cameras, and all the money that the US has put into stopping the flow of drugs. Now you see him doing a lot more backpacking, basically, where they're just going through the back roads, and going through ranches. And they only care like 100 pounds at a time. And they're and they're basically giving these people discounts. They're saying, Okay, we'll smother you, with instead of paying the regular price, we're gonna give you you know, 25% off or 50% off, but you got to smuggle these drugs. And of course, these people are so desperate to get here. They're doing it and they're they're walking in these back roads, and some people are dying out there. Of course, there are times where they actually, you know, they come across the ranchers and the ranchers see them. And, you know, sometimes they help them get in the water, sometimes they call the middle they call agents, you know, and I think even recently, I was reading that they actually indicted a bunch of a bunch of ranchers. In Campbell County, it's one of these. I like, for aiding and assisting in drug and drug trafficking, because they're not, they're not stopping them, they're supposed to call. And so that's what you're seeing a lot more now, in terms of smuggling. And like I said, that's probably what I've seen it different differences. Like I said, Now, you see, you know, those smaller loads, they're adapting to what the law enforcement is doing. And of course, the people you heard, we talked about this right now, people are being kidnapped are being held for ransom, they'll they'll take their family to the point and call them back in Mexico or call them back in the States and say, we have your son, we have your child or we have your family member, it could even be someone older, and we want more, we want more money, they're extorting more money after they agreed to pay the amount they paid to come across. You also see her and hear about rapes. People that are being you know, raped, being forced into into sex slaves. You hear that? I've seen that and heard that. You go to the federal courthouse, there's a there's just tons, I should say tons. But that's not the right word. But there's a word to describe. There's lots of cases in there. And most of them, They line them all up 1015 at a time, and they're basically a raise, right? And we're gonna do all the one time there's too many people, and they're basically and most of them are for, you know, drug smuggling. Human smuggling, that's basically what they're there for. And then every once a while, we catch the big guys the cartel members, you know, that get caught here. They they caught they caught which Oh, here, they caught a kind of thing was the gentleman's name right now he's, he's related to guarding us. He was related to him. His nephew and he sold out a lot of people they caught on basically he was on he was in South Padre Island and a lot of his cartel members have houses in on South Padre and have houses and in Cameron You County and they caught him basically driving around on on traffic just on a basic traffic violation. He was speeding recently. And this port Isabel police officer, small, small little town officer pulls them over and, and does background checks. You're this guy that he got, and he pulled them in. And he basically he snitch, and he shut down a lot of people with all the information he gave. That's, that's, that's why they have that indictment against that. The gentleman is to be the Tamaulipas governor. He's He's the one who gave all the information on that. And yeah, so you, you see them and you see the stuff that's going on, you know, these people actually live there are neighbors, they're living right next to us, you know, and, and sometimes you can't tell because there's so many Mexican tourists and so many Mexican visitors with a lot of Mexicans buy property here in this area. And they come here, you know, to for their weekend getaways. But they're our neighbors, and it's pretty scary to see them but you see them when you when you go to the courthouse, they come in and they're because these guys are, there's a big loads, these are big ones are like kinda like baby loads, these are huge loads and then involved with in terms of the transport transportation of drugs. And and what you're seeing now is also you're seeing a lot of them from the federal judges, you're seeing a lot more in terms of\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  11:05  \r\nstronger, longer sentences. And we're cases in the past maybe like two years, five years now it's 10 and 15 years. And these are people that are basically they will not give up there because the federal agents are asking them to give up your you know, who's the main guy, and they won't do it because they won't do that. They're giving them long sentences. And you know, of course, if they give it up, then they're gonna get killed. And more than likely, they're gonna get killed anyway because they lost a load the drug load. Last year, we actually had a gentleman who was involved with the drug smuggling. The cartels are trying to take money, we're trying to extort money out of him, hey, they found out he was taking money from them. He was stealing us drugs and not delivering everything. They delivered a mail or mail bomb, and they opened the door like at seven o'clock in the morning, and it exploded. And they killed two people. And the guy actually got away that the guy didn't get away. He actually he was not he was not killed, but his daughter was killed was like a five year old, I believe. And I remember walking around the neighborhood and people nobody would talk. It was a beautiful house, two storey house, but wasn't extravagant wasn't like really nice. But it was a nice house.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  12:04  \r\nAnd then they said they they eventually indicted him on drug smuggling, maybe like five months later. And I guess it was just like I said, but his family died. And you know, two family members died. And like it's people were scared in that neighborhood. And it was a very, very nice neighborhood, not not a, you know, again, again, our neighbors that you like, oh, I cannot believe they're that close, you know. And then I've also come also covered a lot of smuggling a lot of stash houses here. And here in Brownsville, I've been noticed, that's something else I noticed. And again, same thing in nice neighborhoods, I went to his one house was like a condo to basically where they had two houses together a duplex, I guess, but not sure when you think of a duplex that something old and Rinda isn't a very nice neighbor, one of the one of the nicer areas of browser, and they just had it, they think they found like about 50 to 75 people in there. And they found them, they found to stash houses in that neighborhood within like two to two to three weeks of each other. So I've seen that the stash houses, there's, I mean, there's just it just it just goes on and on the stories just don't and and, and they'll get said and we you know, we as reporters have to report this stuff. At the same time, you know, we have to we have to kind of watch your back, we have to you know, you know, report the news the federal government has doesn't help us. The prosecutors don't help us. And we have to look through the documents and read it and you have to go to go to the hearing when you go to the hearing. And if you don't go to the hearing, you know, the one of the things we're dealing with is we don't have as many resources as much money. And if we don't go to the hearing, and we just look at the docket docket says X, Y and Z but it doesn't explain everything. They're there at something because what they do is they read them their rights. They read them their affidavit, sometimes affidavit on file with them, and explains everything they know it comes two or three days later, whatever. But you know, you basically they're having a very difficult time because nobody will help you. The feds are basically have you know that they're not going to tell you they're just gonna tell you go to the go to the website and look it up that way. We're not helping you. So, you know, it's actually more difficult for journalists to cover this because you have to think about the fear factor. Though, you know, as a journalist, you're never afraid, you can't be afraid. And people ask me like, Are you afraid and I'm not afraid of the day, I'm afraid they have to put down my my pen and say, I'm not I'm not doing this anymore. So you are not afraid of that. But at the same time, you know that they're restricting the information they're releasing, they're impeding on you. There are times they actually release information that it's incorrect. They don't write things right. And, you know, as I was there, I got after that after the PIO, you know, for the for the US Attorney's Office say you're releasing wrong information, that is not right. So you see, a lot of times you're having to depend on them, because you don't have the resources to go there. And as you see across the board, the newspapers are doing the same thing. You know, they don't they don't have they can't leave people there all day. And they have them covering like four or five stories, not just one story. So the reporting of these things is not we're not reporting accurately. We're not doing what our job is. We're basically basing it off what we read in documents. We're basing it off. You know what little information we get, and it's just in this it's pretty sad that you know that officers and law enforcement are not giving you the information on it. Stan, you know, they have to protect their sword to protect, protect their investigations that understand all that. But at some point, you know, they have more information that the public has a right to know what's going on. So they know about these people that are in their neighborhoods and know what's going on and know what to look out for, where they actually can help law enforcement, they can they can report to stash houses, they can report these, you know, these cartel members are these people who are smuggling drugs. But since they're not releasing the information, people don't know. And it's happening. I know, right up here, I think it was over here on Adel two, they actually had a bailout where they had, I think it was eight people were killed and a rollover, and they said that the smuggler was 14 years old. Yeah, one of the smugglers sport and that's and you see a lot of they're recruiting younger people to do because number one, they get in trouble and they're minors, they're going to they're not going to charge them. They're going to send them to the to the state system. And the state system barely developed some stricter guidelines or stricter laws they just passed on during the last session, a little stricter in that sense. And they can they were they can they can actually send send them to jail, whatever. But if you're a minor, there's, there's no, there's no judicial system for minors in the federal system. So that's what they're doing. They're recruiting they're recruiting minors are recording them. And young people are younger, and they're involved with these are the smuggling efforts. And like I said, that's, that's another thing we've seen, like I said, but it was really unusual to see a people dying, and one of them was smuggler being only 14 years old.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  16:23  \r\nSo some of the challenges, thank you. Some of the challenges are scarcity of information. Any other challenges with with getting information out of northern Mexico, I know the Restrict policy, newsroom policies about not going south would be one, but maybe you can talk a little bit about that, and how you work around that?\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  16:44  \r\nWell, it's very difficult, like I say, because I have gone over there, and I and I have covered it, you know, I'm one of the reporters, you can say he's been to Mexico, you know, he knows what's going on over there. He's seen, you know, dead bodies, he's he's seen that stuff, you know, the rest of his reporters have never been to Mexico and reporting. phenol basically off, you know, either hearsay, you know, which is all it is because these people, some of these people that aren't even there, you you really kind of trust them. The other thing that they use a lot, especially in this market, they use a think tank, a Stratford. And again, nothing gets you researchers, you guys are guys are awesome. But you're not there on the ground. And you have to be on the ground to understand what's going on. That's what reporting is about reporting is about gathering information. It's not gathering information from from an expert. It's not gathering information from somebody that's over there. Yeah, the thing is, I was here and I did this, but if you didn't see them there, you can't you can't report that that's, that's that's, that's shoddy journalism. You know, and that's what you're seeing. You're seeing that we're having to Reno basically, trust people that we don't know if they were there or not. And the people in Colonie can lie up, sorry. And you can ask them questions. You can you know, do your own nickel, we can use lie detectors, but you know, we as journalists, we have to ask a lot of questions and kind of kind of put two and two together if they're telling the truth or not. But we're not always right. You know, we're it's an imperfect system. So that's what I see a lot of it and the thing is that you see, especially with the media, they're really into this scare journalism and they're really into this if it bleeds it leads and so it's very tabloid ish. And, and granted there are things going on but there is a there is a turf battle going on between the Zetas and the Gulf Cartel. There are people getting arrested one thing the federal government has done a little bit better job is getting the top the top dogs are getting the top people so when that happens when those people go down either to shot or killed or they're or they're they're arrested then there becomes a battle for you know, for who's gonna run that area. And so yeah, we do see that a little bit more here than we did in the past. Here in Brownsville matamoras is not as bad as it is in in Reynosa McAllen and we're gonna also toggle and start SAR County in that area and Roma, it's a lot worse, but that's where the fighting that's that's where you see a lot of the fighting moreso. But like I said, it's but you're just basing this off with what you're reporting what you're hearing, like I said, and I mean, I mean, I trust Stratford. I know, these guys know their stuff, but they're not on the ground. And granted, you know, I don't blame them. I mean, people are getting killed over there. And if you're gonna report about the cartels, if you're gonna give information about the cartels, you're going to be on hitless, no ifs, ands or buts about it. So it's very difficult to get information and to get accurate information. And it really impedes us in terms of our reporting of the news. And I know that I've heard word now journalists, journalists or reporters are now doing polls and reporting with no names, but it just might be saying it's a poor reporting crew. We haven't held it here but I've heard of this, you know, Marley getting back in Laredo, and then Mexico you hear about that? We try to do that, you know, but last time we actually put our names to it that we're reporting it but you know, another thing that you can reverse back I know this has been only talking about about all the immigrants that come across here and gateway and go to the the bureau At the bus stop. A lot of a lot of them were going to come through there. And the reason why I found out I wonder I was at the bus at the bus stop doing a story Hey, what's, how's everything going at the bus stop and, and some guy told me in Spanish. So are you from Univision said No, I said from Channel Five, why? He goes, Why you should come on 11 o'clock. The all these Cubans come across and they come here and they take the bus to Miami. I go really? So yeah, so sure enough, I went by and yeah, they come across, you know, they get across the border, you know, they, they walk across a they have documents to get them across. And they get they jump on buses. It's 11 o'clock every day, the bus goes these from here to Florida. It's a round trip. And I'm like, wow, I told my bosses about because they're working on a series on and we actually did a series about that. It was actually pretty amazing. And a lot of cool bottles. I was like, wow. And I said as well. How do you know that your cubicles? Because the way they speak Spanish? Yeah, it's a little different. But yeah, that's actually and that's what you see now with a lot of the kids. And you know, and like I said, the catch and release program with kids. It's always been a problem. This is not anything new. It's always been a problem. But now all of a sudden, it's become it's become an issue because it's going to become a political issue. And they're trying to trying to make the Democrats look like they're not addressing the problem and trying to win back the the Hispanic vote is what they're trying to do. But this has always been a problem here. Like I said, there's no place to put them. So they had to give them a notice that they didn't come back. And most of them do not come back. So so then I just wanted to add that forgot about that part. But yeah, but yeah, going back to jet, yeah, it's very difficult to get an accurate stuff. And you just have to hope people are telling you the truth. And like I said, I am not saying that they should send us over there. But I think they should, the reporters want to go but the management manager says they don't want it to be on their back. If someone dies, you know, they when they what they should do is they should be sending us over with with bodyguards really literally what they should be doing, but they don't want to spend that money. So it comes back to Money, money, money, money, you know, they don't want to spend that money. They don't want to hire experienced people, they want to hire all these kids who have never been on the board. I mean, I grew up in Los Angeles, I knew about I was right there. But three to two and a half hours from San Diego. I know a little bit but the border, but I never knew what what was on your touch are working. And I was like, Oh my gosh, and people don't know, in Central America. I mean, nobody in Central America. But back then, you know, in Kansas and Missouri, Oklahoma and all, you know, no one knows what's going on down there. It's a freakin war here. It is a war and people are not aware of what's going on. They think it's just Oh, yeah, they see every everyone's while maybe a sex slave, you know, string people to get the rest for sex slaves. They see some of the other little stuff every once awhile you'll see it but but it's really a real big thing. And people do not know what's going on down here. And it's because the national media does want to come down here because again, back to my they don't have the resources. If they had the resources, they had the money, they could do a lot of good stories down here. Because there's a lot of things going on down here. A lot of underhanded stuff on a corruption. We talked about that, you know, the corruption of these officers, and they don't make a lot and they're being out in there. And they're being offered money. And they're taking it and they're getting in trouble. And they're also like I said, the same thing. The you see stronger sentences, longer sentences for these people. So it but it's hard for us report because again, because we were not in the news, we were not in the courtroom, because we had to file five stories for you know, for one day, and if we don't know, when I worked for Channel Five, if you didn't have a story, and they had a strict, a strict brand, maybe you'd have a story, they wrote you up. And people got written up, people got suspended, if you didn't have a story, and I was like, oh my but there's not a story today, you know, this is for what you want. They have their brand breaking news breaking stories, you know, and, and they want a certain a certain brand of news. And, you know, if it didn't match their brand, you know, and you'd have a story, then you got in trouble. And it's then that's wrong, you know, you know, especially if, you know, some days, you're not gonna have a story. So you have a combination of problems, you have resources, lack of accessibility. And then you know, people are getting punished for you know, something that they can see if you're just fooling around and not doing your job. But you're on the phone working. And you're getting trolled for that. There's nothing wrong with that.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  24:02  \r\nThank you very much. You mentioned issues with or seeing lots of seeing some violence of seeing gruesome crime scenes. Can you tell us a little bit about how you have dealt with that over the years when you have faced seeing scenes like that? And maybe how your colleagues have if you know,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  24:25  \r\nsure, well yeah, like I said, I was there in Victoria when they found the bodies at that at the gas station. And I saw them pulling them out. You know, one by one is I can't I don't recall the exact comment with it. And it was numerous. And I was there I told you I mean, when I was in Mexico, I saw the five prison guards shot to death bloods bladder, you know, same thing with the drug cartel leader that was shot with the grenade I saw him you know, face to face. You know, in Mexico, they allow you to see things like that. In the US just you see from from a distance I've seen a lot of those rollover deaths, you know, same thing. I've seen family members come and click on crying. I've seen bodies that where people are being taken out, you know, from who died in the, out in the desert or inside the desert in the fields. So I've seen those people in their bodies come on in sometimes they don't look very good. I've seen a, I said, I will talk to you about them. I'll talk to you earlier about the middle bomb stuff I saw again, I saw what happened at that house, I've seen a lot of different things, different types of deaths, I've seen violent deaths I've seen, you know, that's from, you know, from starvation, lack of water, seen a little bit of everything. You just, you know, after a while you you just learned you become an immune to it, you know, you feel for the people, it's hard when their family show up. And most of the time the families do not show up, you know, maybe maybe they, you know, they show up later they go, you know, I mean, I'm sure you know what that place in Brooks County where all the children are, are buried and all the all the immigrants are buried, they have no names that families never claimed them and never found them, who their who their families were, I've been to that cemetery. I've been there before. So you know, you see stuff like that. And yeah, it hurts. I've heard I've had family members call me saying they're looking for for their family. They crossed the border on this date, and we're looking for them. I've talked to them, put their pictures up on my Facebook page to try to help them. I remember one story where that actually happened. And then later, they actually did find them, and then dead, you know, and actually found other ones who would actually find them alive. I've seen that. So you know, when you talk to the family members, that's hard. You can feel their pain, you know, if you have a family member, you know, and they're missing, and you're expecting them. And you know, they're being extorted. You know, they're being abused, which, you know, you hear a lot about, too, you know, sometimes what they do is they, like I said, they turn them into actually smugglers and they say, you know, you are going to smuggle, you don't have to have a choice. And then they get arrested and like, Well, I was forced to do it. And how do you tell the ones who are forcing the ones who are not even when they have a lot of these people they arrested during these bailouts or days chases. They don't know who the smugglers are, and they literally had to take them back. And they have to offer them deals. The immigrants say Who was it? And then once they give it up, then they're gonna get in trouble. But those guys are the actual smugglers. Smugglers Don't, don't they try to make sense with them. Or what they do sometimes is that they run away. And there's actually they usually travel on two to three cars. So the third car is actually the one that's going to go pick them up. In case something happens, and it happens a lot. You see a lot that's times where you don't see. You don't find them. You don't find actual smuggler, but you know, it's when you see the families that it touches you that it hurts you, the Victoria, tragedy, just horrible. And I remember I worked with no, we're there because I have a lot more experience. I'm a seasoned journalist I was I was I always say I was I was bred to be a journalist. You know, that's who I am. That's why I always will be. So I kind of got used to it after all, but I remember once being there had the one in Victoria. And it was a young lady, first first person, her first job. She'd only been in the business maybe like three or four months, she was there to try to get people to interview and she couldn't get anybody. She started crying. She literally broke down started crying, and just didn't couldn't handle the pressure couldn't handle tension. Of course, nobody was talking. And she cried. I remember and I told her Don't cry. It's gonna be okay. Don't worry, you know, we just have to report what we have. But it was the it was really the whole situation, she broke down. And, you know, I don't really break down, you know, on the emotional person. Maybe when I get home, and maybe I break down and I cry, and I feel sorry for these folks. But But in general, I don't break down when I'm doing stuff reporting. And I try to maintain composure, but it's hard. It's even hard for the ones whose families because their families don't know what happened to them, you know, and, and there's, there's just so many people that are being found dead, you know, they don't know where they're at. And that's that is that's like I said, it's the hard part is reporting on basically the nameless people. And like I said, there are a lot of people so you just kind of go home, you know, and you just kind of think about it and you go you cry about it. And you you feel for the people, you know and that's all you do. That's all you can do\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  29:24  \r\nis do you think there's been much support for journalists that have that are dealing with that?\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  29:32  \r\nNo, there's no there's no help there's no support at all, sometimes some of this the station will meet will take you off the story or they'll put you on oh sorry to give you like, like any like an easy way not an easy one but just by saying like what's gonna take you off that as you've been doing a lot of it, but for the most part, no, they treat you like, like your machine. You know, just keep keep reporting, keep doing the stuff you're not, you know, you're not you're just machine you know, that's that's your job and keep doing In it, you know, and, and, you know, like I said, sometimes you know that that to be a little more, you know, that's understandable because we're human beings and it affects us. And so but there's not there's virtually very, very little sport where you get your supporters from your colleagues, you know, you meet and you talk and you talk about stuff I was told that happens to them. Yeah. And they help you out and you're able to talk it out. So that's more or less where you that's, that's the support you're getting, but it's not from management. It's not from the from your, from your from your management or your your leaders in your newsrooms.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  30:32  \r\nThank you, if you could just wrapping up. If you think about the border area here, and this sort of the future of reporting, do you have a sense of what reporting along the border may be for journalists say in the in the coming years?\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  30:50  \r\nWell, the trend right now is, again, to hire young people who don't know what they're doing, who are inexperienced, and they don't want to put money into it, the all they want, and all they want is that sexy tabloid ish news that matches their brand. That's what they want. And, you know, segmentation of the markets has led to this, that you're gonna have to go after a certain audience. There. Like I said, they're all about scare journalism is all they are been to Mexico, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of islands, I'm sure a lot of deaths, you know, we've heard the numbers, I'm not doubting that those that stuff happens. But it makes you afraid to go to Mexico makes you afraid to want to go to Central America, you know, you hear about these things, you hear about these immigrants who get on the rail cars and what they do, you know, and all that stuff. And he said, the thing is that there needs to be more, you know, more reporting on the ground,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  31:46  \r\nwalking around asking questions, there needs to be less pressure on having a story every day. They eat, there needs to be more reporters hired so that other reporters can work on these projects. And, and because the thing is that sometimes you're actually reporting information that is incorrect. I mean, I want to be I want to be straight up honest with you. You know, at Channel Five, they told me point blank, you know, some stories I did, and I like, almost like a somewhat old school journalist, I get both sides. Like, we don't want that other side. I go, Well, why not? They're like, that's what it's supposed to be both sides to, like, No, it doesn't support your, what you pitched. I go, Well, I'm not here to prove a point here. I'm, I'm here to tell a story. I'm here to tell both sides. And they like, Well, we, we don't want that other side, take it out. And I've been told to take out the other side. So Bear. So basically, I went from being a basically an unbiased, fair reporter to being a bias one with an agenda. And of course, I'm the one with voicing it. I'm the one saying it. So they're like, That guy has an agenda. And I'm like, No, I don't I tried to interview both sides. And they don't want that. They they want it to be like I said, they want it to be like where it's shocking, where he's like, Oh my god, I can't believe that's happening. And I'm not gonna go to that city anymore. I'm not gonna go there. You know, that's what they want. And it's all about entertainment. Now, it's not about collecting information, doing your job reporting the news. It's all about production, production, production production, if you don't produce, then you're gonna get in trouble. And same thing happened. Now, when I worked at you know, the other stations, not only here, Channel Five, the stuff about not That's to say, the two sides of the story. But more about production, you know, you can't come back without a story. And like I said, they just there needs to be there needs to be more reporters hired. I mean, when I worked at K AAA, I worked I covered from Kennedy County, all the way up to three rivers, which is about 90 miles, I think, yeah, 90 miles, and then I car from Rockport, Texas, all the way down to Duvall County, which was just a little farther, it's probably that's probably about 100 miles all by myself. And that was, and there was one day where that actually went, I went to three rivers from Three Rivers, I went to Deval County, and back to Corpus no bureaus, you know, so all in one day, and I did like two or three stories, and you know, it was it was it was rain related story. But yeah, you see, that's the thing is that there's not enough money, and but yet, they want you to do all this great stuff, you know, and, and then, of course, when you're spread so thin and trying to do so many stories, you're gonna make mistakes, it's gonna happen, it's just unfortunate gonna happen, you just cannot, no human being can do all that stuff. So that's the thing is that they need there needs to be more money put into the, into the business, they need to be more patients and developing stories. Because there are a lot of great stories out here, you know, that people that the people have a right to know about, you know, the public has a right to know, but but we're not reporting on stories, because we're just, we're being stretched too thin and we're being asked to do too much. So that's probably I would say the future has got to be that there's gotta be more more resources. You know, they need to be they need to give us more time to do quality stories. And I don't want to tell you, the first company that does that and understand what you want you want you know, you want local content, I understand that but but you want good quality you don't want poor quality and that's what they're they're basically pushing right now. It's poor quality journalism. And of course they put together all their special reports for the sweets period. You know, they they put some report even on those no sleep stories. I mean, we're in the past you were given as much time now you're being given one day, get everything in one day. You know if you don't get it that's it. Whenever for ketchup lie, I went out with them in Brooks county went out for with them traveling with the sheriff's deputies and things like that. I didn't get anything that day. Nothing happened. I was there for two or three hours. And they're like, Well, did you get a video? I go? Yeah. Did you get a good interview? I said, Yeah. Did you get anybody? Any bailouts? No. Well, I wouldn't have to go with it. You know, I was given one day really a half a day. And then then they will tell me like, oh, yeah, so on. So came from case I came from reporting from case they were lucky they're here the day and they caught like three or four bailouts, they got this and this like, oh, you know, the same thing with the substations from the village. Or they come up here and they get all these stories and they got, you know, just lucky day, they actually got to, but that's the thing. They're only given them one day, they just if they don't have it, then it's hard for them to come back. And that's the thing is that they need to come they need to be they need to send someone down here say, Okay, you're gonna stay here for a week. I'm gonna give you a week, you know, and I know you're a good reporter, I trust you, I know, you're gonna do what you got to do. Do it. I'm gonna let you give you a week to just to do and to say which afternoon we have to come back for another week, we'll come back, you know, because they're gonna get gonna get good quality stuff. But that's why what you get right now, it's just a lot of shallow journalism, shallow reporting, Channel Five plans are digging deeper than digging deeper, they're still they're still doing surface reporting until, you know, they, they they think it out a little more. It's not just rug. It's not regular reporting, but it's not digging deep and find out the true roots, the true problems. Like I said, there's a lot of stuff going on out there. And it's hard to get those immigrants to talk to you. They're afraid. You know, they're for a fear for the lives that they don't fear for their lives. They fear for their family's lives, because they're going to kill them. They talk, but that's what they need to find you to find those stories with those people. Those. That's the thing right now is we don't have that we basically have just young people going out there covering stuff that they don't really know anything about. Thank you so much for your time. This has been great. All right. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/74416/file/160287#t=0.0,1185.552"}]}]}]}