{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/gf0ms3mw3w/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Thomas Chandler"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 1, tape 13"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Chandler, Thomas (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1998-07-02"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Thomas Chandler conducted by Julie Ferdon. Chandler met Udall through basketball, and then at college. Chandler discusses his career as a lawyer and being a colleague of Stewart and Morris Udall during their practice as lawyers. Chandler also discusses his personal relationship with Udall."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.008 (uid)","MS396.009 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Thomas Chandler conducted by Julie Ferdon. Chandler met Udall through basketball, and then at college. Chandler discusses his career as a lawyer and being a colleague of Stewart and Morris Udall during their practice as lawyers. Chandler also discusses his personal relationship with Udall."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - azu_ms396-008_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2715.648,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/279/original/azu_ms396-008_side1_a.mp3?1744847775","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2715.648,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: This is tape number 13 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good morning. It's Thursday, July 2, 1998 and we're at the office of Thomas Chandler in the firm of Chandler teller Udall and red hair at 33 North stone suite 1700 in Tucson, Arizona. My name is Julie ferdon, and I would like to welcome Tom Chandler to another in a series of oral history interviews that form the Morris K Udall oral history project. Okay, Tom, thank you for participating. I'd like to begin with a little biographical information. I understand you were born in November 11, November 15, November 15, 1920 so you're a couple years older than Mo, yes, at least, okay. He was born in 22 I believe. And you were born in Knowles, Oklahoma, right? How did you get to Arizona and when?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=0.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, how I got here is a long story, but what you want to know is I lived in Oklahoma until 1931 I then moved to Arkansas and stayed there until 19 the spring of 1935 I went to California from Arkansas in 1935 stayed a short period of time, came back to Arizona, down in the Harkey Haley Valley, which is west of Phoenix and south of Salome. And there I was parked and in september of 1935 I went Parker to go to high school. That was the purpose of me going to park that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=59.0,110.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: was because of the high school. There it was the only high school nearby. Oh, is that right? Yes, 80 miles or so, but nearby now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=111.0,118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you were, you were you played basketball at Parker, didn't you? Yes, I did. In 1938 Mo, was playing basketball in St John's for the St John's high school team. Did teams ever play against each other? Never did. Never did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=119.0,132.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 38 Morris's team. I believe it was 38 I'm pretty sure it was Morris' team played in the northern tournament at flight staff and didn't go to the state tournament. My team tried to qualify for the state tournament and fell short in the district, so we never crossed paths.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=133.0,151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What a shame. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=152.0,153.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, I don't know it might have been good for us, because his team, I think, won the northern tournament. Oh, did they? I don't think they did. I think Payson won. Payson might win, okay, but they had a good team. St John's, those","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=154.0,166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: small towns seem to have good teams in those days. One little town,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=167.0,170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Duncan, won the state championship three years in a row. Wow, beat Phoenix and Mesa and whoever was around. Wow. Peoria won it one year too. Really? Yeah, St John's, I think, won it one year. And years gone by.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=171.0,189.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1938 you came to the to Tucson to go to the U of A, did basketball have anything to do with that decision?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=190.0,197.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, yes, it did. I originally intended to play at the university,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=198.0,202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and did you get to I did not play? Did you try out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=203.0,207.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yes, and I to protect my image. I was not cut from team. I had a disagreement with the coaching staff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=208.0,218.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was Stewart playing then he was I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=219.0,220.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: played against Stewart in the intramurals that year. Oh, you did. And our teams went to the finals in the intramurals, and they lucked out on us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=221.0,228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How was he as a basketball player? We've heard, hear a lot about Moe as a basketball player, but not that much about Stewart. Well, Stuart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=229.0,233.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: might have been almost as good, it's all right. He was a very good player. Morris was bigger, course and taller, taller, and he Morris knew what to do with the ball when he got it, or he he knew what he was going to do with it when he got he was going to shoot it. Stuart might be inclined to pass it on, pass","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=234.0,257.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it on. Was mo a ball hog. Basically, No, he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=258.0,260.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wasn't, but Morris, then and throughout his entire life, had great confidence in his ability. He was not a bashful fella, and he thought it was his responsibility to shoot it, because he thought he was the best shooter around, and he probably was, so he put it right up. Sturt was a good defensive player, and he was a very good strategist, and he could score too. He could shoot it. They beat us in the finals, and he did it almost single handedly. Stewart did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=261.0,291.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in I guess it was 1942, years after you went to the U of A was When Mo went for only one. Year before he joined the military, and he was gone then from 41 to 45 Did you meet MOE during 1940 I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=292.0,307.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: met mo the year before that, in 39 pardon me, in 1939 Yes, he came down and played in the might have been spring of 40. Probably was the spring of 40 when his team came down and played in the state tournament. The St John's team, yes, they came down and played in the state tournament. And that's when you met him. That's when I met him. How did that occur? Stuart in business, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=308.0,331.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: well, what? What was your impression?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=332.0,334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, he could play basketball, and he was a good fella, you'd call a good kid, and he was a nice, very personable,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=335.0,349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: outgoing, or, yeah, not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=350.0,350.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not boisterous, but outgoing, sure. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=351.0,353.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did you? Did you keep up your contact with him at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=354.0,357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: When he came as a freshman, he pledged my fraternity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=358.0,361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What fraternity was a city, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=362.0,364.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but he didn't. He didn't hang around long. It came down to him having to make a choice as to whether he played what we called pledge basketball. That's the first year basketball for the church, the LDS, or for the fraternity. And he chose the church, and he had a choice of stay as a pledge or and play for the capsics or play for the LDS. And he said, I'm not going to turn my back on my church. And he didn't. And he became a he was no longer a pledge, and I think it was good for him too. He, he was not exactly the fraternity type,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=365.0,409.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, actually, as I recall, wasn't he one of the first student body presidents who was not a fraternity member?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=410.0,417.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He, yeah, he was one of the early ones. I can't remember all of them through the years, but MacPherson was Carl Barrow was Bill Bailey was, yeah, they pretty much were fraternity people. He might well have been the first one. Now,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=418.0,437.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he seemed to have split with the church fairly early on, and must have had some disagreements with them early on, because he was so involved in trying to get blacks in athletics. When do you know when that split took place?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=438.0,453.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It's I do not. I do know that that would have been a problem with him. And my recollection is that he helped participate with Dr Morrow in desegregating the Tucson schools prior to Brown versus Board of Education. He instur worked on that project with Bob Morrow. What year would that have been? Well, it had been before 54 I think Brown was 54 it had been before that. And I think it probably was when Stuart was on the school board at amphitheater might have been that during that time frame. But as much as I talked to Morris about, I never talked to him directly about his religion, and we never got into that subject. We talked about collateral issues like what happened that in church, or what didn't happen in church, or why he wasn't in church, and and the general idea, or the the history of St John's and the community's participation in church, but he and I never got into the religion thing. I do know that he made a speech, I'm sure, at Brigham Young where he took the church to task for their policy about African Americans. When was that? Well, it don't know when it was, but he it cost him dearly politically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=454.0,552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Was this when he was a congressman, after he was, think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=553.0,555.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he probably was during that. I think he probably was sure he was, I don't think that they'd have invited him up there if he hadn't been right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=556.0,565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: When you were in college, you, you worked at the U of A food services dining hall, right as I understand. You occasionally made forays to the infirmary, where, where Moe was. Well, at some point, Mo is giving haircuts there. Do you recall that at all? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=566.0,581.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, that's substantially Correct. He came to the dining hall. Stewart came to the dining hall. Stewart had the job of coming to the dining hall and getting the meals for the people in the in the infirmary, the patients. You. He'd come over and get the meals and take him to the infirmary. And when he left, Morris had that job, so I'd see Morris. Morris would come over to the dining hall where I worked in and get the food, and I'd see him. And of course, I saw him around the gym. I saw him around school, and I knew him. And I don't know just when his barbering venture, started. I remember it quite well, and I did not risk my head to him. He was not a bad Barber, but I didn't avail myself of his services.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=582.0,633.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, he said in his oral history that the State Bar did that the Udall haircuts were quite renowned, and I wasn't sure what he meant by that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=634.0,642.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, he did a fairly decent job, but I preferred a different style. There's a great barber story that's not involving him directly, but involving him as a lawyer that, if you remind me, I'll take you later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=643.0,661.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, we'll get to that. What when you were in college did, did you and Mo and Stu socialize? What? What did? What did you do for fun? Or, well, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=662.0,676.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did for fun is not what they did for fun. Different, travel. Different different paths. Okay, I didn't see them at the double R, which is where I spent a great deal of my time. That was a Rio Rita, that was a bar","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=677.0,694.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the equivalent of the green dolphin, or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=695.0,697.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, it was the college hang out and I worked. They worked. They were busy, and I saw them on campus and but we were not bosom friends or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=698.0,706.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: thing like that. We were, did most students work during those days? Great number of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=707.0,711.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: them did. Yeah, yeah. Quite a few of them did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=712.0,715.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: now you, you went to law school in 1943 what? Why law?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=716.0,726.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it's, I can't give you a quick answer that probably, probably I decided, and when I was in junior high, that I would like to be a lawyer, and probably because I had heard and read of Darryl and Rogers and these people, and because of the romance that seemed to be attached with slain dragons, somebody is in trouble and they need help, and you can rush in and help them. A miss conception of what the legal practice was all about. I thought it was noble and romantic and drilling. You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=727.0,776.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3: haven't found it to be that, no, none of the above, even occasionally occasionally noble, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=777.0,784.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: occasionally thrilling, probably too well","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=785.0,786.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in certain class, yes, but probably then the seed was planted. I know that I probably talked about it in high school, because of the some time ago, I looked at the an old yearbook, and there, the prophecy was that I'd be a lawyer. But I didn't go. I started in 43 because I couldn't get in the service, and I stayed out of school a year trying to get in. And when I didn't, I got so disenchanted with the, quote, war effort, the home effort, where we're supposed to be working like dogs and and trying to build airfields and airplanes and do things to help the war effort and and people didn't seem to be all that excited about it. So I got disgusted with my job and quit and with the law school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=787.0,845.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You received your degree in 1946 your law degree, right and and from there, went to practice law with EVO Deacon senior, right, set correct. And he, he what kind of practice was that? Well, it was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=846.0,865.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: call it, you name it. It was a little bit of everything. He'd been on the bench. He was well respected and well known, and all kinds of people came to see him for all kinds of reasons,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=866.0,886.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and he was eventually elected to the Supreme Court.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=887.0,891.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was on the bench, and I started alone. Oh, all right, but I was on. Lee alone, little over two months, something like that. He did not want to resign. He intended to resign, but didn't want to resign until after the election, because there was two vacancies and three candidates, and if he quit early, then the governor Osborne would have to appoint one of the two Democrats, giving that one an advantage as an incumbent. And Osborne didn't want to do that. He didn't want to make a choice. He knew them both liked him, respected him, and one had been very active in Osborne's campaign. The other one was an excellent judge, so he asked debo to stay on till after the election, which he did. Then after the election, when the one got elected, was appointed by the governor, and he, he left and came over and we I started practicing with him. I worked for him. He was my lawyer,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=892.0,968.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and where did you go from there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=969.0,971.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He Osborne appointed him Attorney General. And Eva wanted to run the judge. Wanted to run for the Supreme Court.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=972.0,982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What date would that have been about? Was in 1948","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=983.0,987.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I believe the election was in 48 I think it was, and he wanted to run for the Supreme Court. Yes, it was. It would have been, no, I think he might have been elected in 47 the end of 47 and I didn't want to be alone. I didn't want to I didn't feel old enough or wise enough to keep the office open. So I went to work for another firm in 1948","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=988.0,1013.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what firm was that, Darnell,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1014.0,1014.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Robertson and ozapel,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1015.0,1016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and what was their primary primary practice, trial","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1017.0,1021.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: work, a lot general practice. They represented the Tucson electric light and power. They represented Tucson warehouse and transfer. They represented a number of insurance companies, casualty companies and bank and they had a very good practice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1022.0,1040.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now, during during this time, from about 46 to 49 or so mo had returned from the war and returned to the university, as was student body president and captain of the basketball team and star pupil and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1041.0,1058.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: all of those things flying high.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1059.0,1061.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you have any contact with him during that time? Not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1062.0,1065.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a lot. Now, see Stuart came down. Stuart got out, and he came down and he occupied the office I was sitting in, and Deacon, see me his office.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1066.0,1074.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh, he did. So he came over and basically took over what you were doing. Well, but I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1075.0,1079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wasn't doing anything to speak of. Yeah, I left him a couple of collections that he couldn't collect, a few things like that, but he came and sat in my office, and I moved down the hall so Stuart was there. I knew I kept up with Morris' attics at the university because he was making a lot of racket over there, and I knew about that, and I saw him from time to time, saw Stuart daily, but saw Morris from time to time. He was over there establishing a co op for the veterans out at polo field village. He was telling the people at the university he intended to show up and collect the proceeds the football games, because it was a student","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1080.0,1130.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: body activity. Real rabble rouser, a real rabble rouser. Indeed, he had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1131.0,1135.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the president pulling his hair and the Attorney General's Office coming down, trying to give advice on what the President could do. He got active, and he had a contest with him over when assembly would be. They wanted to have it at 430 somewhere. Nobody would attend. If you don't have anyone attending assembly, there'd be no problems coming out of the assembly, of course, that one more Society of a student government. He wanted to beat at 1130 when people would come and there'd be things discussed, issues dormitory rates, and things such as that or whatever. And he backed the president down on that. Now he went over and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1136.0,1177.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Jim McNulty was involved in that, to some degree. Was Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1178.0,1180.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think he might have gone with him to see the President. I don't know. McNally ran his opponent's campaign. Kid named, what's his name? O'Brien. Billy O'Brien ran against Morris, and McNally was O'Brien's campaign manager. And of course, Morris won, and then. And he and Morris became good, close buddies and friends and word forever still are but Udall was quite active, and he was no shrinking, violent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1181.0,1214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He seems to have taken leadership roles very early in life was he just a natural leader? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1215.0,1221.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: don't know what he was doing when he was in diapers, but I know that ever since I knew that the man","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1222.0,1235.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he was a leader, and he believed that any area of human activity that you were engaged in needed leadership. That activity needed leadership. And he believed that the best person to lead should lead. And after he took some careful inventories, he decided he was the best person, and he stepped right in and did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1236.0,1260.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it sounds like he had a healthy ego? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1261.0,1263.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not, not, not offensive at all, but he was confident. And the truth is that he was the best person who else would should have been the captain of the basketball team, should have been him. Who should have been the President's student body should have been him. He volunteered to his services. He thought it was a an obligation to if you were capable of doing it, you ought to go out for do it, for the cause.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1264.0,1290.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And this seems to have have followed him, followed him on to other careers. Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1291.0,1299.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it did his reforms in the house, seniority matters, leadership matters, Speaker of the House, presidential race, presidential race, sure. I mean, he was he wasn't, he wasn't bashful, he wasn't and he had confidence in himself, and he should have had he was a very able guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1300.0,1326.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now getting, getting back to lawyering days, he you moved to your own firm in 1952 was it 52 for McCarty and Chandler? We got fired. McCarty and I got fired the same day. And may I ask what that was for. Why did they get fired? Yes, insubordination, insubordination, okay, and and you took off on your own right. Did you take any clients with you? Or no,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1327.0,1353.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we didn't. We had a rule that that I approved of and still approve of. I stayed till April one to finish up things that they wanted me to finish up. McCarty left the day after we got fired, but committed himself to finishing anything they thought he should finish. But they had a long laundry list for me, and not things I had things that they wanted me to have, and so I stayed until the first of April. Our policy was that we would not accept employment from any client who had been a client of that firm period. That was a policy, and we adhered very carefully to that policy. The only deviation was that if an insurance company that we had represented when we were in that firm had a conflict, and that firm could not represent them, after a couple of years, we agreed to we would take that that case, but and we made some People very unhappy by telling them, I'm sorry. We don't and not very unhappy. I had some shouting matches with some of them. Well, aren't you the middle lawyer? No, no, no, and we wouldn't do it. We did not do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1354.0,1436.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did you have occasion then or before, to try cases with Mo. He graduated from law school, I believe, and got his law degree in 49 I think so. Did you try any cases? Yeah, yes, against Moe. With Moe, tell us about them. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1437.0,1456.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: too many to mention, but the McCarty tried one against he and Stuart fairly early on, Randall Dale, Randall, niece of the over a long period of time, the cases that I'll take a cross section of different types of cases. Okay, Kessler Domestic Relations fight, a lot of property, a lot of hard feelings. And Morris represented the woman. I represent the man. We try. That case for quite some time, and the Dutch Van De Velde that was later on, get to that later. Truman, later on, get to that later cliff, later on, not too much later. Over the years, we tried a number of cases. We tried cases together. We tried the Republican identity case at the same table. So I saw a great deal of him, and the dealing with Morris was created this problem. Morris would get the maximum dollar in settlement of the case. He pretty generally represented plaintiffs. So he gets Europe to where that is very great deal to pay for that case. And he'd do that and do that, and Fauci Enough is enough. We're going to trial, and we go to trial, and the result would be worse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1457.0,1576.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So he wasn't. He was somebody to settle","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1577.0,1579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: with. You bet we'd go through the cycle again. And we don't imply that we never won a case. We did. But Morris was the best all around, all around trial lawyer that I ever saw in the courtroom. Very best, one case, one particular case. If it was a right case for the guy, nobody could beat McCarty, my former partner, if it involved a lot of complicated cases with not much human element to it, it would been hard to beat Mark Wilmer over the long haul, but for the kind of work that Morris did, basically he he was the best.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1580.0,1631.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What? What attributes made him well so good. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1632.0,1636.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the jury trial is a theatrical production. Now that may seem a little shallow, but that is what it is. And the audience, of course, is your jury. That's who you're playing to. And whether you're a hit or a flop depends on how well you impress your jury. Morris from the beginning to the end, played them to the hill. Morris walked in the courtroom right on time. Never walked in and sat around for him to look at his suit, for his shoes, to see if they were shined right or anything precisely at 10, if you started at 10. Here he was. Walked in. He got his client settled down, seated and comfortable, and he was there. The judge came in, parties ready. And he announced ready. And he did, did not do it in an arrogant way, but he did it in such a way that Rudy meant ready. I am more than ready. I am raring to go here. And he went first on board hour of the jury. He talked to them next, he made the opening statement. So he gets the first whack at everything. He calls the first witness, of course, he decides the order of the witnesses, and he was a master at that. He would he never let off with a weak one to have a weak one. He'd put him at four o'clock on the afternoon when nobody cared what was going on anyway. And he did. And he was never petty. He was never small. He was never sarcastic, never argumented him. He was very straightforward, very open faced about what he did, and that was his nature. And the jury loved him. They believed him. They trusted him, and he just and as a very good and seasoned lawyer, said to me one time, the problem with that, Udall, is that he gets everything off on the wrong foot. And I said, Well, what you really mean is he puts the jury under his arm and runs off down the road with him, and you're trying to catch him. Say, hold on here. Let me have a chance here. Yes, but I want to say something here, that's what. And he was and a delight to try case with no squabbles, no back, back, no nothing, just an absolute, utter delight. The results were not delightful, but the it was, it was fine experience. And another thing about Morris that that sort of had, I. I never knew him to hold a grudge. I never knew him to have a temper tantrum. I never knew him to hate anyone. I never knew him to really actively dislike anyone. I'm sure there are people that he would just as soon not hang around, but he was charitable and tolerant of everybody and their ideas. And some people would treat him so bad in a trial. And of course, he didn't like it and it irritated, but he didn't bite back, and he didn't bad mouth him. He he could take care of himself, and did. And then that was over, and he was all down the road. He was and he and he was quick, quick, very, very quick, just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1637.0,1840.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: fast on his feet, sort of,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1841.0,1844.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, sounds","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1845.0,1845.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: like he was prepared. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1846.0,1847.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: prepared indeed. We're trying to first degree murder case once, and he was prosecuting our client, and me and McCarty were defending him. And McCarty was something else too. I mean,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1848.0,1860.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was this when he was county attorney? Yeah, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1861.0,1866.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he was McCarty's cross examining a witness and they deceased, our view was that he had been the aggressor in a confrontation with the defendant and McCarty said to the witness, well, he looked asking about the deceased bacon. Looked like he was spoiling for a fight, didn't he? Sure did. And that's all says Charles, you know, did he look like he was spoiling for six slugs in him, five in his back. That's the kind of danger you faced when you were bleeding with him. That was a pretty","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1867.0,1914.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he opened the door and he took advantage. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1915.0,1917.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that was he dunked that one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1918.0,1920.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now you you tried cases both with him and against him. What? When you tried cases with him? Same","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1921.0,1928.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: thing, same thing. Yeah, let you do your own thing. I'd have one defend if he'd have another, or I'd have one plant if he'd have another. Very helpful, kind of gently suggested that maybe it would be better if he sort of took the lead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1929.0,1944.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did he share the glory, though, or did he share the glory? Yeah, oh yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1945.0,1948.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He didn't. He wasn't, didn't hog the limelight, but And when he had, when he dealt with other people, I wasn't too sure that he should always take the lead. I thought we should walk together, but most people would agree with that's exactly the way it ought to be, because he was very effective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1949.0,1973.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And you said earlier you had had a story about Moe as a lawyer. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1974.0,1981.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the he and Stuart went to Charlie. Charlie, Charlie. What was Charlie's name? I can't believe that I would forget Charlie's name. I'll call him Charlie, and I'll tell you his name later. He was a Native American with one leg. Charlie was and he was a barber, and he cut hair for a reduced price, and he cut it on Sunday too, because his clientele were pretty much farm workers. That's when there was a lot of farm working needed in the area Sarita and Marana and near here,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=1982.0,2029.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and the barbers Union decided to squawk and get love Charlie. Love get Charlie prosecuted for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2030.0,2043.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: cutting hair on Sunday, and so they did. They charged him with that crime, and Stewart and Morris were his lawyers. Well, they and the case had attracted a great deal of attention, media and otherwise, and so Charlie love, he testifies that he lost his leg in the war, who his clientele was, and and, yes, he he's on the witness stand confessing to these crimes. Yes, did he did? Days there anyone in the courtroom whose hair you've cut, indeed yours and your brothers. You know, I always said it looked like it looked like this was a non union barber that worked on those heads. But so the jury goes and and and Morris made a very, very telling argument the jury. I was trying a case next door, and my Jury's out deliberating. So I come in to catch his argument in the love case, and he starts down the trail of tears from North Carolina down south the Cherokees down to Florida, through Alabama, trail of tears out to Oklahoma on a reservation, deprived discriminated against, goes off to defend his country, gives his leg to the country, comes back, trying to make a living, trying to support himself and his family, giving disadvantaged people good haircuts at a reduced rate, doing it on a day when they can get their hair cut. And what is the state of Arizona doing prosecuting this man. Can you believe this? Well, the jury goes out, and they're come back. They're hung up. They're 11 to one for not guilty, and the one hanging out for guilty rushes over to Morrison Stewart after the gaze is over and they discharged the jury hopelessly deadline. And he says, I knew you wanted to appeal this case, but I knew you couldn't appeal it if he wasn't convicted. I was trying to talk these people into going ahead and convicted them so you could win on appeal, which, of course, is not what they wanted. They wanted. He then becomes county attorney. Morris does Charlie is set for trial again. Calls me and says Tom, have you heard of the love case? I said, No, I haven't heard of the love case. Well, it was all, all over the family, which I don't read about those things. What is the love case? Well, and he said, I can't, of course, I can't, I can't prosecute him because, but some we have to go ahead and prosecute the case. You know, it's still pending. I'm the county ticket, and I wondered if you would be willing to defend Charlie. Of course, I would love to defend him. I don't know him, and maybe he doesn't want me. Well, I'm sure. Well, if he comes in to see me, I'll look after him. Oh, of course, Charlie wants a free lawyer. That's me. Well, case is getting pretty close to trial, and the person who don't try, what about the law case? I said, Oh, we're ready to go any time. Well, wouldn't you like just take a plea to one count unsupervised probation, and no, I wouldn't like to complete anything. We're going to try this case. And Morris calls, Tom, I know now I'm not trying to influence you, but you know, in the case, he got on the stand and admitted that he'd cut hair illegal. He admitted it and testified to it. I said, Yes. I said, I wonder what the his lawyer was doing putting him on the stand to confess. Well, he said, Now look, he's it's just a clear case, and if you would plead Him why they'd be unsupervised. Morris, let me tell you something. I've thought about this. I've given a lot of thought of this. This guy was binding his own business or his ancestors in North Carolina, and here comes the government, and they snatch them and they take them to Georgia, and they take them to Florida and taken down about they've taken across the Trail of Tears into Oklahoma. This guy goes out and fights for his country, loses his leg, gives his leg for the country, comes back, trying to make a living for himself. Is finally cutting disadvantaged people's heritage. This is an outrage. What gonna do this? He won't plead guilty to time of day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2044.0,2347.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And what did he say to that? Very well, what else could he say","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2348.0,2352.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: next thing? Couple days later, the guy in charge the case says, you know, Morris gives us a lot of freedom in how we handle our matters. He didn't look over his shoulder. I'm gonna dismiss the love case. I said, fine. So Charlie was only tried once.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2353.0,2368.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Now I've heard that about Mo is as the county attorney, that he that he pretty much trusted his staff to do what was expected. He did. What was his reputation as county attorney?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2369.0,2381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, it was very good. He had a good reputation. He was a a deadly prosecutor, deadly and not because of his that he was bloodthirsty or a shouter or. Reimer, his approach was, I ran for this job, and I was elected by the people to do a very important job, and that's to prosecute people who've been charged with crime. I don't convict them, and the fact that I'm here prosecuting these people doesn't mean that they're guilty. The judge will tell you all about that, that all the presumption of innocence, and I've got to prove my case beyond a reasonable doubt. You're not the fact that I have charging doesn't mean anything except they're here, and I want you to give them every benefit of the doubt. And and that was and they said, Boy, what a fair guy this is. And he was, and he put case in the that's just a hard part of my job is to have to stand up and say that I think we've carried the States carried the burden. But the here's the evidence, and this is and he was so fair and so open, he could have convicted almost anybody of anything, because he was, he was that effective, but he was selective in his charging too. He didn't, he wasn't out trying to build a reputation or charge everybody","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2382.0,2468.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: seems to have changed a lot over the years, how the county attorney's offices, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2469.0,2472.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they're different strokes for different folks. It has changed a lot. And although I'm not too sure that you can look at any particular office, one office, and say that's the way it is. Everywhere might be different, I think, probably in smaller places where the county attorney has a better feel for the community and the people in the community that he can be probably a little wiser in selecting cases to prosecute, but he was good, and he was again so so fair. He'd agree to anything. He'd stipulate to anything. One quick example of that, a very high profile case that he inherited, was a case against Fred Wilson, who was the Attorney General of the State. He was charged with offering a bribe to a deputy sheriff, and it was a the Fauci case. McCarty, my partner, defended the case, and he and I were getting ready to defend it. We're going to do it together, but I had a conflict, another trial, so I couldn't actually try the case. Charlie tried it, and you went without me, probably that was good. And we're talking about, and have been all kinds of bad publicity for Fred Wilson. The paper had been dead against him, and they were really pouring it on him every day, every day he had offended him greatly, and they talked to him about all the crime and the crooked Sheriff, crooked county attorney, crooked. And he said, Look, I'm not a detective. The Attorney General said, I'm not a detective. Any complaints that you'll sign against any of these people that you're complaining about. I'll prosecute you signed a complaint. I'll prosecute Sheriff, county attorney, oh, you're bluffing. You're a bad, bad, bad, no. And he called their hand and called him some names like cards and phonies and blabbermouth. He the attorney general. You don't say that to the editor of the paper in town unless you want trouble. And he got it first class. So they were on him pretty, pretty heavy. And we're talking about a change a venue, and what we needed to do affidavits and get the newspaper articles together that had been written and so on. And we at that time, we had some help. Fred Wilson was still the Attorney General, and there were volunteers falling all over each other to help the Attorney General when he lost the election to Ross Jones. The volunteers all went to somewhere like all year San Diego. We couldn't resolve them again. They disappeared and but we still had it on board at this time. And I said, Why don't we talk to Morris about a change venue? Oh, he wouldn't agree to that. He's got such an advantage here. He wouldn't give up that advantage. I said, I'm not too sure. I said, he's a pretty straightforward. Well, if he's straightforward, to dismiss this case, well, he can't do that. It was a grand jury game. I'll go talk to him right now. Okay, go over Morris. Yes. You think that the state can get a impartial jury here, someone that's not mad at either Wilson or the paper. It'd be hard. You think Fred can Where do you get a fair trial in this county? Probably not now, probably not. I guess if that's your view, you would agree to change a venue. Yeah, what? Sure? What county take? A choice, any county of budding this county, it has to be contiguous to this county, any county. Take your choice. Well, Yuma was furthest away. Less publicity in Yuma than any place. I said, Well, I'll be back here on where we want to go. I think it'll probably be Yuma. I said, Fine, make up your mind. Send me a stipulation outside. And he did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2473.0,2698.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So he really was. Was just entirely fair, pardon me, he was entirely fair.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2699.0,2704.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I'm gonna need to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2705.0,2708.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: flip the tape over here. Okay, do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279#t=2709.0,2711.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270279/transcript/78595/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/595/original/azu_ms396-008_side1_a.vtt?1744913247","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/595/original/azu_ms396-008_side1_a.vtt?1744913247"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - azu_ms396-008_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2715.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/280/original/azu_ms396-008_side2_a.mp3?1744847777","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2715.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I talked to him, found out what was in his soul, in his heart, his mind. And I just don't have any heroes, but Morris was a was a special is a special person. He really is. Yes, come in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=0.0,15.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We're back on again after a short break. Um, did you ever try any cases with or against Stuart? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=16.0,24.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: but I really they weren't anything of any substance and but I've seen him in the courtroom, and we've had a lot of cases together that we disposed of. Stewart was a good trial lawyer. He was more, matter of fact, he was more, just at least more, I want to say, pompous formal. He's a little more formal than Mars was. And Mars was so easy. He was not he was not stiff at all. Stir. Was a little stiff by nature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=25.0,53.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now you were saying just a couple of minutes ago before we Well, between turning it off and turning it on again. That Mo was about the only hero you've ever had. No No I said, I have no hero. You have no heroes. But he comes the closest. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=54.0,67.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: comes pretty close. Okay, maybe not the closest, but He's way up there on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=68.0,71.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the list. And and why is that, in particular,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=72.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the his integrity, his commitment to good things, things that are important. Good government to free people, people with equal opportunities, clean air, clean water, just he just he's a statesman and has done a great deal for the country and for his fellow man. And then as a lawyer, he was about as close to what a lawyer should be as anyone I've known. He was a very good lawyer, not just in the courtroom, out of the courtroom. He understood law, he understood he was had a great aptitude for it, and he was just a good, dedicated human being, and I had a great deal of respect and admiration for him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=75.0,134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now you you knew and worked with Stuart Moe and the younger brother David Burr in your firm for a number of decades, all are extremely successful people, lawyers, public servants, to what Would you attribute their success?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=135.0,158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, of course, everyone had an abundance of intellectual ability, brain power. They were all smart. They all had a lot of common sense. They all cared about other people. None of them were mean and vindicative. They were they were good, good people. A lot of it has to do with their their heritage, their upbringing. They had outstanding parents, the judge, a beautiful, wonderful man, the mama Louise, as good a woman as anyone ever knew. Bright, compassionate, sensitive, just they had and their whole experience of growing up. They grew up in a small town, which I think has a great deal to do with a person's outlook on life when they get older, the church influence was there. I think that that impacted him for the better. I think that went on a mission that impacted him for the better. And regardless of a person's religion, the fact that they believe in something and they believe in giving, sharing, helping, that that impacts what a person is like it and just their experiences in life. They they were a pretty outstanding group, that family, the girls were our Inez is gone, but Elmo is just about as bright and beautiful woman as I ever know. She is just tremendous. And I don't know Eloise all that well, but she's good, and the parents are the salt of the earth. I mean, those people, they couldn't do a dishonest thing. Even they wanted to, they tried, they couldn't do it just wasn't in them. And that has a lot to do with what the kids are like that kind of a upbringing. And yet they let them do their own thing, to a certain extent. I don't think burr made church every Sunday. I know Morris, he wasn't bothering this. Traveling poker game on Sunday. Do basically go to church some of the time,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=159.0,302.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but what was his traveling poker game? Well, it would start","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=303.0,306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when the parents went off to church, and it would move around, depending upon where people were. Finally, I think, winding up in some buddies barn with a lantern to finish the game they'd play all day,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=307.0,321.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and this was in St John's. Yes, he was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=322.0,324.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: great poker player. I think he held the third mortgage on the local printing press that he'd won in a poker game. He was a poker player.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=325.0,332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: That's great. Were you in his campaign? Involved in his campaign, and already ran for a county attorney?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=333.0,341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He to a limited extent, not much. He ran his own show. He was pretty much his own guy there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=342.0,348.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now, in 1954 Stewart decided to run for Congress, as I understand it, Mo. Mo wanted to run for that seat too, and deferred to his brother, but I get the feeling from my research that it may have caused a bit of a rift between them for a short while. Were you aware of that time at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=349.0,370.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, if that was the fact, it was something I never knew, I did not think, and I don't, I don't think that Morris was interested in that job. Morris wanted to be judge, and he ran for judge, and I think he ran that year, didn't he? He ran 1954 Yeah, the same time Stuart ran. And I if, and I don't, I don't mean I would have known it if it happened. I don't mean that I was had all the intelligence available, but I just don't think that's accurate, because I think I would have heard something about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=371.0,413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Were you involved in Stuart's congressional race? Not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=414.0,416.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: really to any great extent, one of my fraternity brothers and a friend of mine that I'd known forever and ever, and a good friend was a guy named John C Smith from Yuma Junie, and he'd been in the state senate, maybe the house too, but I know he'd been in the Senate, and he had his eyes set on Washington, and He wanted me to help him in his campaign, because he I live here, and I had was active in the Democratic Party, and I told him, No, I can't do that. Jenny, the best I can do is try to stay as neutral as I can. But I've got to tell you that I'm going to give Stuart some help. I'm not going to get on the committee, and I'm not going to not going to go out and do anything like that, but I'm going to help him and and so I did, I'm sure, do something for Stuart","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=417.0,471.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: when, when Moe ran for superior court, he lost pretty badly, I guess, from what he has described as as the political machine brokers. Do you remember? Do you recall that Grace at all? Sure What? What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=472.0,490.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: happened? Yes, they voted by machine, and they put your name on the machine alphabetically, and when it came to the superior and they had the judges in a particular place, and when it came to the judges race, here was, I think Kipnis was running, Irving Kipnis, I think Joe Riley, I think was running. And I think another one, maybe, and Morris. And here are these names here, but they didn't have room for him, so they put him over here somewhere. I finally found him, but it took a long search. It really you couldn't find him. Of course, here's Stewart. So someone's voted for Udall. Well, that probably, and there may be an I don't think the judge was running that year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=491.0,535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Cal may have been running. Who was Cal Udall? I'm sorry, not tell John Udall he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=536.0,541.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was running in Navajo County, and maybe Nick was running for something in Phoenix. But there are a lot of Udalls on but the bottom line is that you couldn't find his name, and people thought that he'd withdrawn, or Where's Udall? And a lot of people called about it and said, I couldn't vote for you. Couldn't find your name. That caused a change in the the way the machines were set up. Now they're rotated. You know, the paper ballot. They rotated the names. Adams was first here, and then it moved and moved and they they rotated. Now they did the same thing on machines at that time, every machine was set up the same way, giving the first name on in any category or any office, great advantage. Well, it seemed to probably,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=542.0,590.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: probably serve Him, him well as things came out that he didn't get the race. But what kind of judge do you think he would have made excellent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=591.0,598.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He'd have been good. He'd have been good at any level. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=599.0,603.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you think he would have been satisfied staying as judge? I think so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=604.0,608.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he. He would have wanted to go to Supreme Court of the state, on the state, and then their next step is east. United States that would have been his aim. He wouldn't have and he was perfectly capable of doing both, filling both positions, perfectly capable. Had the bearing power and all the tools to do it well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=609.0,639.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He seems to have taken the political route. Instead. In 1956 he chaired the Arizona volunteers for Stevenson. Yes, he did. Were you involved in that at all? Yes, I was. Can you tell us something about it? What are your something I really don't know anything about. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=640.0,655.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I love Stevenson. He was a good man. He was kind of my kind of Democrat, if that means anything,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=656.0,667.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Morris had it was inevitable that Morris had given to public life. That was going to happen. That was a family tradition, and he was going to do it sooner or later at some level, and then he jumped in and did that he was and he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=668.0,688.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: went to the did he lead the delegation at the national convention that year, or was he simply a delegate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=689.0,695.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I can't remember. I never went to the convention. I stayed at home while they were back there, drinking and praying around, singing songs you never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=696.0,705.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: went to any convention,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=706.0,707.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: not about the state conventions, no national convention","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=708.0,712.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 1960 a couple years later, Mo chaired the committee for modern courts of the State Bar Association did you work on that at all? Or were you aware of that? Yeah, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=713.0,725.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was aware of it. Did you work on it at all? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=726.0,729.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: what? As I understand, the primary thing that was accomplished by that initiative was to make judges appointed rather than elected? Was there? What else was involved?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=730.0,743.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, I can't remember, really, and I wouldn't even try to do it from memory. The problem with being a lawyer is the either the courts or the legislature repeal your legal education every two or three years. So and if it was the election there at one time, for example, the Supreme Court could not hold court out of Phoenix. Had to hold it in Phoenix. That was one thing, because I remember the case that that impacted a case that Morris and I had together. That case, I think the first case argued out of Phoenix after that, it was a constitutional amendment, I believe, either by initiative or referendum. I believe, and there was an initiative, and one thing it did is permit the judges to hold court outside of Phoenix. And I Boris and I argued the first case out of there, out of Phoenix in here in Tucson. What case was that it was called Arno versus somebody, and it was a flamingo hotel, but that is the Arno is a plaintiff, and I don't know that. Who the I can't remember the name of the defendant. It was, it was a involved, a incident at the Flamingo hotel. But it was not the flamingo hotel. It was the defendant. It was a person who owned the flamingo hotel that was argued here, down here at the city council chamber.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=744.0,828.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now he, around the same time, wrote the Horn Book the Arizona law of evidence, right? Do you know how he came to do that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=829.0,836.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, he thought that there was a need for it, and who else was better equipped to do it than Morris gave you though I criticized it, I said I found a glaring error in the first four pages, and I refused to read further. I told me, I don't think it was a glaring error. It was something I disagreed with him about, but it was a good, good piece of work. When","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=837.0,860.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: did he work on it? When did he work on it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=861.0,864.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He Morris wasted no time. He made the best use of time of any human being I ever knew. He didn't he didn't sit around and bull with bull sessions with people. He didn't stop you even stopped him on the street and walk over in the shade and talk for 10 or 15 minutes. He was busy. Came to work early. He would form a corporation. He would draft a will. He'd go try a case. He'd come back at noon, do some things, go back, try the case, come back to the office, work a little bit, go home, play with a softball with the kids, and then sit down and write more on the book. You. He worked all the time","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=865.0,901.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, that's what I wondered. Was there time for his family? He spent a lot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=902.0,905.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: of time with his family. A lot of time with his family, early in the early stages, great deal. They had did a lot of things together his whole life. Was it was his job and his family. He went out with me chasing around or doing this or that, playing golf, doing all that. He played occasionally, but not often. He He was a very, very dedicated, busy guy, worker, worked hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=906.0,935.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: In 1960 was a Kennedy campaign, and as I understand, Mo and Stu worked on organizing delegates for Kennedy Stewart. Did I know that Morris did? Well, that's what I wondered, to what extent moment","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=936.0,951.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was involved. The Of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=952.0,959.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: course, Stuart was very active in 60 for John F Kennedy, and he announced early on that he was a candy man. I was, I think I was a southern Arizona manager for Kennedy. I think it was my title. I had some title of some sort. And I think Bill Mahoney was the state chairman for Kennedy, but Morris was invisible in that campaign to speak of, not implying he did nothing, but he didn't do very much. Stewart was the one, and Stewart, along with assistance from others, did what needed to be done to see that the Arizona delegation went for Kennedy at the convention. Kennedy got more votes from Arizona at the convention than from any state west of the Mississippi. Is that right? That is right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=960.0,1016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I wonder why Moe wasn't involved. Because he was back in practice at that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1017.0,1020.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: well, he was busy, and I don't know that he had decided that he wanted to get into politics. I think he was doing other things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1021.0,1033.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But Stewart helped. I'm pouring the coffee all over me. Stuart helped see that the Arizona delegation went for Kennedy, and he wasn't the only person responsible for it, but he helped see that that happened, and happily got the credit for it. Well, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1034.0,1059.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: following year he was, he was appointed to Kennedy's cabinet, right, as interior secretary, and Moe ran in a special election, right? It's Mac maths. And as I understand, it was a squeaker campaign. It was close. Why was it so close? Apathy. Still, the case is often that's still the case. Someone","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1060.0,1082.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: said, What is worse? Igniture ad to say, the guy said, I don't know, and I don't care.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1083.0,1088.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did you know? Did you know Mac Matheson? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1089.0,1093.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: knew who he was. I knew enough about him to to make me increase my efforts on behalf of Morrison. He was a honorable man. He he was quite conservative.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1094.0,1115.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You were talking about Mac Matheson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1116.0,1117.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, he was a decent, honorable guy, very conservative, extremely conservative. And I couldn't at that time in my life, I was, quote, liberal, if that term means anything to anybody, means nothing to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1118.0,1139.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Was Matheson from Tucson, yeah, yeah. Stu mentioned in his in an oral history that was taken of him that, if I understood it correctly anyway, that Moe blamed Stuart partly for the close margin. Were you aware of that at all? No, okay, what did Stuart do wrong? Well, I wasn't clear. I wasn't clear from that. That's why I wondered if you knew work hard enough. Maybe I think, I think that may have been the case. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1140.0,1170.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: don't know. Yeah, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1171.0,1173.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 1962 Mo was reelected, defeating Richard Burke by 56% were you involved in that campaign? What role did you have? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1174.0,1184.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: can't tell you what I did in all these campaigns. I do remember the first one because one of our workers got arrested,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1185.0,1191.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the Mac Matheson one, yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1192.0,1194.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and I think we were all well, I wonder what the statute of limitations. Is on the crimes of that nature. Roger Lewis, I was very concerned about the turnout, and I was watching the polling places, and the precinct 36 at that time was where, and we got real concerned about it. And Roger was really concerned. He was a warrior anyway. And so we went down in 36 and started electioneering. Not supposed to do that on election day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1195.0,1236.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You couldn't do any kind of election work","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1237.0,1238.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: on election you couldn't do what we were doing. They captured one of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1239.0,1242.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What were you doing? Electioneering,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1243.0,1245.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: looking over the backyard fence of some minors who got off work early, fence and and say, Are you guys registered Democrats? Yeah, they're sitting there drinking beer. Have you voted? It's no it's a cinch. Better put the beer down and go vote. It's no cinch. Then you've got a friend running for this office. You better get out of the backyard and go take care of it, or you'll be working for nothing someday. And we were doing a little bit, we were trying to encourage him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1246.0,1283.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to vote. And who caught you? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1284.0,1286.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: they didn't catch me, and they didn't catch Roger. They caught someone else, I don't know, caught him. And was it somebody from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1287.0,1292.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the other campaign? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1293.0,1294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: it was a, I think the other people snitched on us, but it was an officer of the law that went and snatched the other guy and charged him with a crime.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1295.0,1304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did that make the papers at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1305.0,1306.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't remember whether it made the papers or not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1307.0,1311.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So did you behave yourselves on the next campaign?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1312.0,1314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Everyone thereafter? I was not up on what you could and couldn't do exactly. I knew that. There's certain things I knew was aware of the limits, and, you know, can't election year, or can't do this, can't do that, but what we were doing, what apparently was not right at that time, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1315.0,1337.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 64 he he ran against William Kimball and won by 59% Kimball is an attorney, yes indeed, and a good one. Didn't, didn't he eventually become a supporter of mine. I think he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1338.0,1353.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: his Chairman one year. It was at least on his committee. He always liked Mars. You could not you could not dislike Mars if you knew him, had anything to do with him, if you viewed him from a distance and said, This is a socialist, or worse, this as a wild liberal, and so on and so on and and transform the world into something, You could work up a hate for him, or a dislike for him, or a lack of respect for him, but if you knew the guy, you couldn't, you couldn't do it. I mean, he was just too good a person and too straight forward, and he wasn't wild out there, but he believed in certain things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1354.0,1396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Why do you think Bill Kimball ran against him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1397.0,1400.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What did leave Cochise County? And of course, he was a devoted Republican, and the Republicans said, Well, you're a person who can win this Kimball.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1401.0,1413.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Get out there. Was he lawyering in Cochise County?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1414.0,1415.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Cochise County, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1416.0,1419.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 1965 Pat Udall, Mo's first wife asked for a divorce. You, as I understand, you were practically neighbors with Mo. You live fairly close to him. We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1420.0,1434.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: live fairly close together. Yeah, did you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1435.0,1438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did you get to know Pat and the kids, then I'm assuming, or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1439.0,1441.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I got to know Pat before she was a neighbor. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1442.0,1445.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: is that right? Oh, yes, so you knew her before they were married. Oh, no. Okay, what? What were your impressions of Pat? I don't have one. You don't have any impressions at all. None","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1446.0,1458.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that I intend to discuss. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1459.0,1464.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: can you discuss it all, how the divorce affected? Mo,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1465.0,1469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: no, okay, in 19 I can say this that I never saw anyone more willing to do anything under the sun that he was asked to do in connection with the disillusion of marriage, and I never saw anyone who handled the isolation. Information from his children with the dignity and tact that he did as well as he did. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1470.0,1507.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: she, I know she moved to Colorado at some point. Did was it pretty much abrupt? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either, that same year, he was re elected again, running against Alfred McGinnis, yeah, they became great friends. Did they really Yes? Now, who tell me something about Alfred McGinnis? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1508.0,1531.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: didn't know much about him. He was a, I don't even remember what he did. He was a salesman or something. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1532.0,1535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: wonder if he was a used car sales. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1536.0,1537.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: no, that was another McGinnis. Okay, different McGuinness. He worked for. He had some he was a good guy, nice, nice fellow. He and Morris were great friends, you know, afterwards, and he was a great admirer and supporter of Morris layer,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1538.0,1558.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, he turned another one, huh? Yeah. In 1967 he came back to Tucson at the Sunday evening forum and announced his opposition to Vietnam. Did you know he was going to do that? No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1559.0,1572.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did it surprise you at all? What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1573.0,1576.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: do you think his motivation was in doing that? He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1577.0,1579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: thought that the war was a evil, evil thing, and that it was doing great damage to this country, and that we were killing a lot of our people for no good reason, and we were destroying a lot of people over there for no good reason, and that it was just morally wrong to continue that conflict that really ate at him, and it really, it was really something that he knew that it was politically not wise because of Johnson,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1580.0,1612.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to come out against it. You mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1613.0,1613.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Oh yes, oh indeed, he knew that. He knew it very likely would cost him the speakership or some role of leadership, Majority Leader of speakership. He knew that, and he did it anyway, and it was a matter of conscience for them, something that he thought had to be done. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1614.0,1632.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you think any of the motivation might have have been an early interest in running for president? Not at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1633.0,1640.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all, not at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1641.0,1645.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: In 1968 he was again, re elected, beating Alfred McGinnis, and that's drum same year he he challenged speaker the House, John McCormick, right, and two years later, challenged Hale Boggs for majority. Later bruising in both cases. Did he ever talk to you about about those races? Well, he said he was going to do it before, before he did it. What? What was his motivation? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1646.0,1676.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he thought it was something that had to be done. Now, McCormick, rest his soul wherever he is. Was a good public servant, but time had passed him by. You needed some young vital leadership in those in that role. You need a new voice, and you did, and there are a lot of things that need to be done that what that weren't getting done. And he says, we need, we need a leader here, and who else is better qualified to do it than me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1677.0,1710.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Do you think he thought he could win? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1711.0,1714.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: think so he was very optimistic about his chances.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1715.0,1716.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah. So he wasn't offering himself as a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1717.0,1720.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: lamb. Yeah, he might have been one time, but another time he might not have been. I think that he got the carpet pulled out from under him, I think in the bald thing, and I think was Johnson still around. Johnson pulled the rug out from under him in one of those pretty sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1721.0,1739.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think it might have been that He then ran against Morris herring and was re elected by 70% his margins are going up. Do you remember Morris herring or anything about that campaign? There's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1740.0,1755.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: very little to remember about Morris but I remember a little bit about it. He was a wasn't he the state treasurer or something? He was a son and he was a working Republican. And yes, I remember Morris","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1756.0,1776.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Now sometime at least when I worked for mowing in early 70s, 69 early 70s, your your name popped up a lot as I believe the campaign chair on doing a lot of fundraising in the campaigns. When did, when did your role evolve into that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1777.0,1793.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't remember. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1794.0,1795.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: by by, by this time, by 70 you were. Yeah, you were doing fundraising sorts of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1796.0,1801.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: things. Well, I helped from time to time, but Morris, in all the congressional races, that wasn't really a big problem. That wasn't a big problem. He he hated to do it. Didn't like it. But that wasn't. That wasn't, that wasn't a great problem to to get enough money for him to run","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1802.0,1827.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 71 he was the chief sponsor for the Campaign Reform Act, which, I guess, the first real act limiting contributions and expenditures and campaigns on a practical basis. Did you see any effect of that on his local races? No, not at all. Did you have Did he ever talk to you about about the Oh, I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1828.0,1855.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: sure we discussed it. I always have been pretty vocal about the need for campaign reform finance. Campaign financing reform ought to be funded by the public.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1856.0,1871.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, that debate sure continues today. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1872.0,1873.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And as long as people want to buy influence, it'll continue. They'll insist on a system where they can buy congressional votes. Very bad, very bad business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1874.0,1891.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: In 1972 Mo, chaired the Arizona delegation to the National Convention, and was a muskie delegate and working very hard for muskie at that time. Did he ever tell you why? Why it was muskie was backing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1892.0,1908.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: No, I don't think we talked about that. I was a musky guy. I liked Ed muskie. I thought he was a good man,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1909.0,1916.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: honorable, straightforward, and a good leader. But I never had any long talks with Morris about his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1917.0,1922.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did he ever say anything about what he felt about George McGovern?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1923.0,1929.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I didn't. I don't remember him bad mouthing McGovern. I probably did. He was a good dude, awfully good man. Very, very good person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1930.0,1938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was a musky alternate well","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1939.0,1942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and McGovern was a good guy. Good man. Needed a little more zoom and zip there to get yourself elected","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1943.0,1955.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in 72 also, he was re elected again, defeating Eugene Savoy by 63% margin goes down a little that year. Was there any reason for that that you remember? Do you remember anything about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1956.0,1971.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Eugene Savoy? Noted a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1972.0,1975.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do you remember anything about who he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1976.0,1979.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was? Not really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1980.0,1980.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a lot of this. Opponents don't seem to be very memorable about Keith DOL guard. Do you remember? Oh, yes, that was 74 margin down a little bit again, 62% Do you remember anything? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1981.0,1994.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he was an accountant, I believe. Wasn't he or Dennis? What was he? Do I remember him? Yeah, I remember the well. More people are moving in, new people coming in and and little shift toward the Republican Party and those things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=1995.0,2016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 74 his most House of Representatives colleagues circulated a petition supporting his nomination for the Democratic presidential nominee. Thereafter, he announced his presidential candidate candidacy in New Hampshire. Did you know in advance that he was going to do this? Yeah, and did he ask your advice on it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2017.0,2043.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm not too sure. The asthma advice we talked about it. When","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2044.0,2047.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: do you remember the circumstances in which you first talked about it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2048.0,2054.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the specific sit down? But we No, I don't,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2055.0,2058.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but he did tell you ahead of time? Did you have any advice for him at that time? Or I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2059.0,2064.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: had a theory that time that I expounded far and wide from then and on down the road?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2065.0,2070.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2071.0,2073.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It was, this is a doable operation, very long shot, but it can happen. And it can happen if first, Hubert sits on the front porch and waits for people to come get him, if he comes out and says, I am entitled to this. I ran I've been the standard bearer. I've been in the vineyard many years, and I have a right to the. Is, you'll get it. Nobody will sidetrack Hubert. If he does that, sits on the porch, you won't go get him, though, these are other people who are aspiring to it, and they just leave him sitting there, because it's a politics and at that level, and many love, but particularly that level, is I don't want to say ruthless, but I don't know what other word to use. To a certain extent, if Kennedy wants it, he can get it. If you'll come out and fight for it, he can get it. Now, if those two things don't happen, then where are we? Well, here's where we are. He can beat Harris in a primary. HARRIS is a liberal, but he can beat him in a primary. I think he can beat birch by in a primary. I know he can beat Sargent Shriver, who is lingering around in the primary. He's got to be able to run very tight against Scoop Jackson in a primary. Maybe he doesn't have to beat him, but he's got to make a good showing. You can forget about Terry Sanford and Jimmy Carter. I said neither one of those has a ghost of a chance. They're from the south, and nobody's going to elect the Georgia crackers or Terry Sanford. So forget about those. Put those out of your mind and concentrate on what's here on the table. Long shot, but it's doable. That was my analysis of it, and how brilliant was it? Great, because Carter did what I tried to encourage people to do. Tried hard, and I was having a health problem at that time, and didn't have any energy and couldn't do anything. I tried to get people to believe that it was doable, and to say, I'll commit to this. A dozen people, a dozen people, if they had committed to that scenario, he would have been the president. They'd gone to Coleman Young in Detroit and said, This man is no racist at all. They decided his effort in the school desegregation matter. They decided his his speech at Brigham Young when he broke with the church about the African American problem, they decided his record on those issues. And said, You don't have to endorse him, but you sure don't have any business call him a racist and get off of that and apologize. Get the job done or head it off before it starts. He never met the president of the United Auto Workers. If who had enough people involved that could have been arranged, that could have been done, Wisconsin could have been one, if there had been enough people to go out and raise some money, I mean, he get the airplane, could get in the air, couldn't have any gas, got a poignant picture of a guy named Alan sits key. He was a state senator from Massachusetts, having a rally from Morrison. The plane didn't have any gas, and float. One thing they were trying to do, I think, is you got enough money to get the plane in the air and but, oh, it wouldn't it be wonderful. Maybe he can be the vice president. And maybe this, maybe that they didn't believe it, that your neighbors never you're not a prophet in your own land. You can't imagine that this man that you know so well and admire and think he's a very great guy, he's going to be the president United States. They couldn't, you couldn't make him believe that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2074.0,2311.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So you think it was a matter of people not believing that he could do it that made the difference. Are you speaking? You're not speaking simply on the local level, but also some of them on the local level, you bet, but also on the national Well, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2312.0,2324.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: needed to, yes, we needed some help nationally, but the local ones could have helped with that. They had contacts out of Tucson, Arizona, contacts in Michigan. They had contacts in Iowa, where we did nothing, absolutely, virtually nothing. We fought with two arms tied behind us, really. Terry Bracey was out there giving it a good effort, but he had anything to work with, no help.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2325.0,2351.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: You were. You were chair of that campaign as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2352.0,2355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What I was, I was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2356.0,2358.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: whatever I was a failure. You were very much involved in fundraising at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2359.0,2362.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that I tried to, I tried to,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2363.0,2364.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: at what point do you remember in the campaign that finances became a problem from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2365.0,2371.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the day one? From the very beginning it was a problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2372.0,2375.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I remember the grounding of the airplane, but I don't remember exactly when that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2376.0,2378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was. I don't remember where it was. It might not have been in Massachusetts, but I remember that that happened and and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2379.0,2389.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: how, how did Moe deal with the losses? Did you ever talk to him? I mean, he lost 22 primaries. Came in second, and seven of them, seven big ones. I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2390.0,2400.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, he lost with dignity and with good humor. He found something about it that that he could smile at and even laugh at. I'm sure it hurt him deeply down inside him. Because when you make that commitment and you say, I'm going to do it, of course you want to win, and you think that you'd be good for the country. And when you're you're second and third and second and third, and you're so close. So look at Wisconsin, just so close, and then losing it has to re hurt that the night when the Secret Service abandoned him and in the hotel, and they came and took out his phones and everything, and the credit card companies were saying, Pay up and And that had to been a lonesome, lonesome, lonesome thing, and have to go to the convention and do what he did, and then it had to be hard, very hard. But he never whined about it. Never complained about it. He never blamed anyone. He it was just a great effort. And I came close. I mean, he, you've heard the New Hampshire story getting his hair cut.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2401.0,2482.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I'm gonna ask you to repeat it, because your story, he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2483.0,2489.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: has a little dead time in a little town in New Hampshire, and he goes in, gets his hair cut, and he says to the Barbara, I'm more shoot all. I'm running for president. He said, Yes, we were laughing about that just yesterday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2490.0,2505.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did he ever talk to you at all about his feelings about Jimmy Carter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2506.0,2511.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: No, no, mean in a negative way,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2512.0,2514.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: just his impressions of him? Well, he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2515.0,2517.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: thought he was a bright guy. He thought he was lucky and and which Right place, right time, and what happened to Carter was what I thought could happen to Mars. About a dozen guys, Charlie kerbo, a lawyer, and Kenyan Spalding in Atlanta, went out and got some people, and they went out and sold the Carter story. And How much easier would it be to have sell more shit, all anywhere, even in Georgia. Now, if you live Nick I've met Carter. I've talked to the man. He's a sweet man. He's a very audible, sincere, bright guy. He's a good man. Look at what he's doing now, and he's not lobbying for it to get rich, you know, which he could do, or anything like that. He's out building, helping build homes for people that need him and so. But if you live next door to the guy, would you rather talk to him or rather watch the paint drown his barn? And he was not the Bucha, you know. And here's a guy that Morris, as far as communicating and talking to people and getting them to believe in him, he could sell ice to Eskimos. Morris could Carter couldn't sell hand warmers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2518.0,2601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: at the end of the campaign, as I recall, there was quite a bit of debt. Yes, there were meaning, what? What happened about that? You know, I can't,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2602.0,2610.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't know the history of all of it. A lot of it was paid off, different ways and different methods. A lot of it was paid off, I don't know. Do you think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2611.0,2621.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the Campaign Finance Reform Act that mo sponsored hurt him at all in the election?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2622.0,2626.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I don't think it had any effect. Okay, see, people, a lot of people give because they believe in the guy, but a lot of people give because they want something and they want a job, or they want influence, or they want an ear, or they belong to an organization that they believe this person will support be favorable to and what they do. I'm not suggesting that everybody, or any of them that do it with evil motives. You know there's nothing wrong with with looking after yourself. If you don't look after yourself, you may not get looked after. All you have to do is go see some per old guy and see how many people knock on his door or her door? I mean, they're not beating the path to your door to say, well, how are you they? George, need anything. Can't fault people for looking at protecting their own interest. Union people voting for people who are going to support their interest. You. But that's the that's way it is, and you better be able to raise the money, or you're gone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2627.0,2710.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm gonna need to flip the tape again here. I'm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280#t=2711.0,2713.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270280/transcript/78596/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/596/original/azu_ms396-008_side2_a.vtt?1744913271","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/596/original/azu_ms396-008_side2_a.vtt?1744913271"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - azu_ms396-009_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1708.608,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/281/original/azu_ms396-009_side1_a.mp3?1744847779","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1708.608,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, okay, we're we're back on the air again. This is the tape number 14, first side of Thomas Chandler interview. 1976 was a pretty bad year for mo all around besides losing the the presidential nomination that year, he fell off the ladder, broke both arms, he contracted viral pneumonia, suffered a burst appendix, got peritonitis. Were you in touch with him at all during that time? Yes. How was he holding up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=0.0,33.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: A lot better than I would. He had a lot of guts. He has a lot of guts. He's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=34.0,40.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a sturdy guy. Must have been a pretty discouraging year,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=41.0,45.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but he, you know, he didn't quit, and he didn't whine, he didn't give up. He went on about his business and had a lot of light lines about his condition.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=46.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: His humor seems to have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=59.0,59.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: never left. Come to never left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=60.0,64.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 76 he was re elected, defeating Larry gutterson by only 58% and in 78 he defeated Thomas Ritchie by only 54% do you think the presidential race hurt him? These","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=65.0,79.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: probably a little bit people think, well, he sort of abandoned us. He didn't want to be our congressman anymore. I want to be president, and he didn't have a chance. And what's going on here? I think it hurt him a little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=80.0,95.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, as I recall, there were a number of a number of people in 1976 who were kind of waiting on the sidelines in case mo didn't run again, or if he got the presidential nomination, seemed like there was a row of people waiting for that seat. Do you remember who they were or anything about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=96.0,111.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, now, would that when he had a choice of either the House or the senator with that was later, wasn't it think that may have been later? Yeah, that was later. No, I don't, I don't, I don't remember who they were. I probably in the back of at that time, if you'd asked me who they are, I probably could have told you, but I don't recall. Now, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=112.0,134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in in 76 was when he first apparently started showing signs of Parkinson's, but he really wasn't, I guess, officially diagnosed until 79 When and how did you learn about the Parkinson's disease?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=135.0,152.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I can't tell you the time frame, and it was early on. He told me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=153.0,158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you were probably one of the earlier people to know about it, probably. And how was he dealing with that? Well, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=159.0,168.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: pretty realistically. He intended to make it public at the appropriate time. He didn't tend to try to hide it. Tended it's the timing of that was another matter, and think you wanted to be pretty sure as to what the future was before he started saying too much about it. If it was going to be bleak, he wanted to say so. If it was not going to be bleak, he wanted to say so. Wanted to be have some certainty about the future before he said too much about it or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=169.0,210.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: made it certainty about how the disease was going to affect him personally, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=211.0,214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Whether how it affect his ability to do his job","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=215.0,220.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in he obviously continued doing his job. In 82 he got involved in a redistricting fight, and my research indicated that he and a number of quote, Tucson democratic associates, unquote, threatened to take the Arizona legislature to court over the redistricting plan. Were you one of the Tucson democratic associates? No, you weren't. Do you remember anything about that? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=221.0,249.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: in a general way, I do, but I wasn't. That wasn't quite if they'd have got in the in a legal, frickin regal battle, I probably would have had a role, maybe carrying books or something, but for lawyers, but I wasn't active in that. No, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=250.0,278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 82 he was re elected again, defeating Roy louse by 71% so his margin started going up again. Did the redistricting you think help help the margin? Or that and his opponent, Roy louse. What do you remember about him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=279.0,296.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Roy perfectly. Nice. Allah, with virtually no credentials for the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=297.0,311.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did I notice in 84 he ran against Lorenzo Torres and won by 87% he represented the people for profit party. So I guess the Republicans didn't even put anyone up. Where were they basically conceding the seat at that point? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=312.0,327.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: think so. I think they said he's got it. Now, let's, let's try something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=328.0,336.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 84 he, he announced that he wasn't going to seek the presidential election again. Were you aware that he was thinking of doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=337.0,346.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it again? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=347.0,350.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: no, he never talked to you about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=351.0,353.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, I'm sure he said something about it to the effect that I've had my playing and then his health was a problem then,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=354.0,366.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so he didn't seriously entertain knowledge. Yeah, 86 and 8080 ran against Sheldon Clark and and then Joseph Sweeney winning in the high 70s. Again, I'm assuming that this is sort of the Republicans were conceding the seat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=367.0,389.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, the district wasn't a garden in which a Republican should try to hold. There wasn't anything here to hold for them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=390.0,401.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In were you still involved in the campaigns","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=402.0,404.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: then certain extent? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=405.0,408.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1988 Ella, you'd almost second wife died in what was ruled a suicide. Did you know Ella at all? Yes, I did. Do you have any reminiscences about her, that she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=409.0,420.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was a very, very outgoing, sweet lady, very supportive of Morris, and I thought a great deal of her,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=421.0,429.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did her death or the manner of it surprise you? Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=430.0,436.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: how did, how did mo cope with that. Did you talk to him at all during that time? Talk to him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=437.0,444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We did not spend a lot of time on that subject.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=445.0,452.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1989 the following year, pressure seems to have been mounting for him to resign. The Arizona Republic ran a story asking for his resignation,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=453.0,464.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was that the first one they ran","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=465.0,467.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: quit. I'm not sure. I I'm not sure if that's the first I believe maybe it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=468.0,471.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: not the first time they if that it can can be considered to be a swipe at him. It's not the first time they took a swipe at him. They did that every time they got a chance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=472.0,482.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The Republican in regard to the Parkinson's or No, generally,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=483.0,486.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: just him, just he was they found him most unsatisfactory throughout his tenure, throughout his career,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=487.0,496.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yep, when in to the best of your memory, When did people start beginning to ask for his resignation or suggest that maybe it was time","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=497.0,513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: about that? Then I think I don't remember specifically, and I can't even tell you other than I do know that the finished paper had grabbed onto it, but as far as other people asking him to resign or suggesting he resigned, I don't have a recollection of that occurring.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=514.0,535.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were you still sure of his abilities to stay in office, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=536.0,542.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was I knew he could do the job. I knew that he that he had his wits about him. He knew what he was doing. I was distressed about the public perception. Morris didn't look well, and he didn't function as well as he didn't have, of course, the bounce to his walk. He didn't have the quickness movement and of speech that he'd had at one time, and to be able to communicate to the public he wasn't doing it like he used to, and that could very well create the impression that he was losing it. It and mentally, and he wasn't losing it mentally. And I was distressed about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=543.0,606.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: It wasn't somehow getting getting clear to to the reading public, or to the media public, that that this, that the disease didn't affect the brain, or didn't affect","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=607.0,617.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know that anyone really made an effort to do that, to carry that cross, but, and I understand why people would think that. I mean, he appeared to be disabled, and they equated that to old age, for example, where a person is decrepit and therefore his brain is dried up when it his problem was the disease that didn't affect his brain. It affected his muscular ability to move and to do things and and it was very sad for me, because this guy was for years, a picture of health, and walked with that great spring in his step, and was an athlete, and to see him wasting away physically was very hard for me,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=618.0,673.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: very hard. He announced in 1990 that that would be his last election and ran against Joseph Sweeney, winning by only 66% Joseph Sweeney has pretty much become a perennial candidate that nobody takes seriously. Now, was was he at that time, or was it a matter that do you think voters were sending them a message, or was he not able to campaign very much that? Well, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=674.0,704.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was a combination of a lot of things. Sweeney was an empty suit, and probably still is the I don't know how his law school is going.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=705.0,722.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Alexander Hamilton School of Law, yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=723.0,724.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know whether his graduates are prospering and becoming lawyers and judges and professors or not, but it was a combination of many things and more Republicans, new people, and people saying, gee, it's too bad that he's still there. He isn't well, and he ought to, he ought to go sit in the shade, go sit on the front porch, in the rocking chair, and watch it pass","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=725.0,754.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: by. Were there any members of his family that were recommending that he stepped down by then, I don't know, in 19 early 1991 mo fell down the stairs in his house and pretty seriously injured himself, and has been in The VA nursing home basically since then, that April after he fell, he resigned his position in the house. Did you talk to him at all before he did that? About that decision? No, have you were you able to keep touch with him after that? Have any contact with him after that? Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=755.0,798.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I have not seen him, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=799.0,802.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Don't intend to. I understand. Let me ask you some general questions, if I can how, how did most campaigns change over the years in quality? I mean, I seem to remember early, early campaigns, at least early by my time, being 68 or or so being hot dog and beer bashes and later, they seemed a little to go a little more toward the $100 a plate sort of dinners. What is your perception of how the campaigns congressional,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=803.0,836.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the financing changed, of course, because of the cost to run a race. And I don't know what the numbers were. I can't remember, but the whole political scene changed one time you campaigned in Pima County by going to rallies, by walking precincts, they'd have rallies. And all over town, you go and make a speech and meet people, and you your people walked, and you walked, and you shook hands and and you made speeches at service clubs. Then it moved toward the media, toward the Madison Avenue approach. Now Morris didn't follow that trend all the way or anything like that. I'm not implying that, but the whole scene changed and shifted, and then it got so blasted expensive, and the about the only way to do it was to have an event where Robert Redford would come, and people would come to look at Robert. Redford, they would have given Moe $20 without Robert. They'd give him 100 with Robert. And so you, as a matter of necessity, you had to go to those things. Morris did not like to raise money. Didn't like to ask people for anything. He disliked it. But if he wanted to go back. It had to be done. And so that that that was a change. And and of course, the the getting the information to the public changed too, because you're using television to a certain extent, and other media. And rather than going out and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=837.0,942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: look at him, she also involved a lot of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=943.0,944.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: money, indeed, very expensive. How","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=945.0,948.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did he change as a candidate? Or did he? Did you notice any evolution there? Or not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=949.0,954.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: really Morris, he was busier. The issues were not only more complex, but there more of them on the there on the plate,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=955.0,968.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but not basically, Morris was Morris. He, he did his job pretty much the same way. From the day one to he learned a lot. Got a lot better at it, but, he was, he was, what he was, what you saw is what you got. And he stayed pretty much that way throughout his career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=969.0,990.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In us, on a similar vein, what what changes did you see in the Democratic Party over the years, both both in the party itself and in the caliber of the of the representation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=991.0,1006.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, at one time, there was some party discipline. In other words, the party expected its members and people who wanted something from the party, to work, to get out and get involved in party activities, and to do some walking, and to put up some signs, and to go to meetings and to stuff envelopes, whatever, not all the help was hired then, and as time went on, the for whatever reason, the that changed, and I saw a party that that wasn't a grassroots operation, it was more of a brokered situation where people and a situation where, really, we don't, we're not going to look at what you've done for the party or your history in the party before we make decisions. We're going to do what we want to do right today. Caliber of candidates that pretty generally goes along with their chances of success. If you've got a race that a Democrat is going to win, some Democrats going to win, you're going to have some pretty good candidates, if you've got one, that's going to be a tough, tough uphill battle, and very likely, no chance you've got a different type of candidate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1007.0,1111.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you see any kind of future for the Democratic Party in Arizona? Have you got any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1112.0,1119.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I don't see a complete and quick turnaround. We've been overtaken by these Republicans. Everywhere you look, this county has escaped some of it, but what are you going to do in Sun City? Who you going to you couldn't elect a Democrat in Sun City, if lucky, Luciana was a Republican candidate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1120.0,1155.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The USS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1156.0,1157.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: for the party to really get back and get people who are interested had better get get off of their bottoms and go out and do something if you're a member of a minority and you need help. You need a level playing field. You need an equal opportunity. You better not sit and wait for someone to come and hand it to you, you better get out. You better register yourself to vote. You better get out and vote. And in the meantime, you better be out, spreading the word and working for the causes you believe in. And if you don't do that, if you sit there and and let other people make the decisions, and you say, well, if my vote doesn't. Count or I'm busy. I've got to go to the I've got to watch the baseball game. I ought to move into Republican precinct with rich Republicans. They get up and vote. They're not too busy to vote. They think their vote counts. Fact, they know it does. It's really true. They get right out of the house and prayed right down there to that place and vote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1158.0,1222.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: early, that's really true. They are. You better turn out the vote and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1223.0,1228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and so to a certain extent, it serves us, right? We just sit there and let them win by default. And we're not going to win all the things. We're not going to get everything we want, but we could, we could make a bigger impact on what happens in a lot of issues environment, a lot of issues that resonate with people, pretty much Across the board, if we had more participation. And if I could create a perfect political world, I'd have 40% of the people in one party, 40% of the people the other party, 20% no matter what party they belonged to, were going to vote the way they wanted to on election day, the way they thought they should, what they believed in the candidate they thought was the best. 40% here would vote for Mickey Mouse if he was the candidate. And the reason I would have it that way is I always want even Mickey Mouse to have a chance if Mickey go out and and convince the 20% 11% of the 20% that he's the guy he's in. So because that is chance is always available, then there's going to be a contest, and there's going to be some people over in this 40% or a candidate come out of that 40% who will try to win. So you'll get good, good candidates. And nobody shut out. There's nobody that doesn't have a chance. You get a good candidate here and a good candidate here and the two 40% segments, and then make them go to the 20% and sell their merchandise to the 20% you're going to come out with a pretty good result. And I'd do it that way. If I was the benevolent dictator, I'd have that kind of an operation, but it but you got to believe in the people. You have to believe in them, trust them and believe in them. And they may take them a while to get around to the right place or the right decision, but you got to believe that ultimately they'll do it, try to do it at least.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1229.0,1375.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I in, I guess just this last year, the US Institute for Environmental dispute resolution was established in Mo's name. What are your recollections as to how, how Moe resolved disputes? Did you witness any occasions, or even just his approach?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1376.0,1406.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, he resolved many of them, nowhere across the street in that courthouse. He was always willing to talk about a settlement, to try to settle a dispute, resolve it in that way. But if he couldn't do that, he knew how to resolve it. It wasn't in mediation and wasn't in arbitration. It was, let's conclude to the country, and the country being the jury, let's go over and the jury decide this. Because he knew when he did that, but that he wasn't going to play second fiddle very often.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1407.0,1444.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about on personal level? Did you ever see him involved in any kind of try to resolve a dispute between colleagues or friends? Oh yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1445.0,1457.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I said earlier, I hope I said I've never seen Moore's real man. He couldn't I used to complain about him not carrying a grudge. I'd say, you remember these jerks step on them and get a chance be mean to them. They've treated you terribly. Don't reward them by forgiveness and compassion. Get after him. And he couldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. He didn't it. He didn't. I honestly can't remember anyone that he really didn't like or said he didn't like. And I know there must have been someone out there. I know he didn't want to be around everybody in town, but he just didn't. He just didn't have any. And he didn't carry grudges. He didn't hold those inside him he was and seen him irritated, but he just, he just, he had a great control of his emotions, and he was, yeah, he could, he could mediate things, and was very good at getting people together and getting consensus. He did it in bar work. He did it and other areas. But when it came to him resolving a dispute, he knew where to get that job done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1458.0,1540.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What would you say were Mo's? We've talked a lot about his strengths. What would you say were his greatest weaknesses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1541.0,1556.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, is it a weakness to to not be able to punish people for past bad deeds. Is that a weakness?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1557.0,1569.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know. Is it a weakness to to say to to someone who has treated you like a dog, like dirt under their feet, and then come to you for something. And is it a weakness not to say, get out of this room before I throw you out to say, well, you know, he's got a point, or she's got a point that there's something nobody's perfect. And his weaknesses was his lack of resolve to get after people who were getting after him and Trent and not to sit around and let people walk on top of him and then forgive him. Two minutes later, he was honest, absolutely honest, he had all kinds of integrity. Is his confidence in his ability to do something a weakness? I don't think so. I don't I don't see that as a weakness. The fact he wants to be the captain of the team. Is it a weakness? It would be if he was not qualified, but I haven't seen him get after a job he wasn't qualified to do. So I don't I'm not very good at finding a lot of weaknesses in the guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1570.0,1651.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: He was human. But what kind of a president do you think he would have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1652.0,1655.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: made great? I think he'd have been great. I really do. He had the brains, he had the courage, he had the integrity, and he could make hard decisions. He could do it, if he had to do it, he could say, this is the way it has to be. And he would have been very good. He'd have been an outstanding one measure his intellect with some of the things we've had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1656.0,1683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I think we can wrap up here. Do you have any anything to add? Or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1684.0,1688.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, it down the old road of life. You run into a lot of people, and this is one you'll never forget. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1689.0,1700.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: think that's very good note to end this with. Thank you. Yeah, you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281#t=1701.0,1703.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146497/file/270281/transcript/78597/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/597/original/azu_ms396-009_side1_a.vtt?1744913301","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/597/original/azu_ms396-009_side1_a.vtt?1744913301"}]}]}]}