{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/dz02z13q4d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Episode 8707: Emile Haury"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["KPOL"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Eyewitness to History videocassettes, MS 685, box 1, tape 5"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Chanin, Abraham S., 1921- (interviewer)","Haury, Emil W. (Emil Walter), 1904-1992 (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1987"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAbraham (Abe) Chanin interviews archaeologist Emile Haury.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["U-Matic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS685.005 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Eyewitness to History videocassettes (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Interviews"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAbraham (Abe) Chanin interviews archaeologist Emile Haury.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/160/212/small/azu_ms685-005_a.mp4_1653497912.jpg?1653497913","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms685-005_a.mp4"]},"duration":1645.867,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/160/212/small/azu_ms685-005_a.mp4_1653497912.jpg?1653497913","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/160/212/original/azu_ms685-005_a.mp4?1653497905","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1645.867,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["MS685-005 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Welcome to eyewitness to history, your personal trip through history. A trip through history as we experienced it, and remember it. I trip through Living History. Professor HN, who is a veteran of a half century of Arizona journalism, we'll be your guy. You will visit with some of the state's most important personalities and your neighbors who are eyewitnesses to history. Today's guest is Dr. Emil Horry, former director of the Arizona State Museum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=37.0,134.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Welcome to eyewitness to history. Today we are honored to have as our guest, Dr. Evil's W. Howery, who today is distinguished professor emeritus of Anthropology at the University of Arizona. You had a long career that made him not only one of Arizona's most fabulous scientists, but also one of the most distinguished scientists in the United States. Dr. Harry in 1956, was elected to the National Academy of Sciences. Four years later, he was named a fellow in the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. He has headed the University's Department of Anthropology, and also headed the Arizona State Museum. In his field research, he has been more to the Indians of the southwest and simply a digger. He has been a friend and advisor and a respecter of ancient Indian culture, and traditions. And Dr. Harry, I'd like to begin our interview today by asking you how is it that you came to be a digger? Where did you first interest adult in this field?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=135.0,203.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: For that aid, we have to go back to my boyhood. I think every young lad at age 10 plus or minus has fantasies about what he wants to be or what he is particularly interested in, whether it's aviation, fire engines, dinosaurs, or whatever. And my interests were in the Indians, both living and dead. And I think that I have to say, first of all that coming from Kansas, I didn't think that there was any, any remarkable evidence or tangible evidence of Indian past in Kansas so I had looked to other areas for pursuing that if I ever plan to or wanted to, at any rate, I think it contributes a contributory factor. To my interest was a couple of broken pieces of pottery that my father had in his in his curio cabinet, and the parlor in the house. And when I use the word partner that dates me and he and my mother on a trip from California, and 90 Nate had visited walnut Cliff ruins and of course he told me about them and these pieces of pottery fascinating it was in northern Arizona that was in northern Arizona near Flagstaff. So I I just kept this on hold, let's say because of the colleges I, in my part of the world that time we're not teaching any anthropology or archaeology. So I took sciences and hope that they will help me Sunday when I found the opportunity to, let's say to, to pursue my interest. So that in essence is how I got started. There's just one of those boyhood fantasies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=204.0,320.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All right. Today, there's a lot of romance attached to archeological digs. But really, it's hard work. And you were you were in the field as a student in 1925. What was it like in those days to do archaeological work in the field?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=321.0,335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, it was a it was a search proposition in the first place, where were the ruins. And then what did they mean? And I didn't get to know anything about these Arizona runs at the very beginning, because my introduction to archaeology came about in quite another way, quite by accident through Biron Cummings, who was then head of the Department of Anthropology here at the university. And I was able to join him in Mexico. And he was in working on a ruin called Quick Wilco. A very older and a very large one supposed to be supposed to have been the largest monumental structure in the new world. So that was my beginning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=336.0,389.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And what was it like? Was it was that the romance or was it just simply hard, hard work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=390.0,396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, the romance is there that you can't get around that that's always there. But overriding that romance, there is a lot of hard work, you've got to get a lot of dirt under the fingernails to in order to find out what's going on. And this particular site, in Mexico, this is about 12 miles south of Mexico City, is unique in the fact that while it was a large one, I must tell you how large it was about 400 feet in diameter, and 70 or 80 feet high. But the unique part about that structure was that about 2000 years ago, it was surrounded by lava. Lava flow coming from mountains to the south is is in the southern edge of the Valley of Mexico. And it flowed down and completely surrounded the structure, well, that had to be removed. Now, that's quite a different archaeological situation than most sites where we don't have the lever. So I was at a deuced, early in the game to the use of dynamite and the excavation of a site now you wouldn't think of doing that. Ever, that's a no, no. But here, we had no choice, we had to blast this level, which ranged from 10 to 20 feet thick, a way to uncover the base of the structure. So we get some idea of its shape of its true form and true height, and so on. And so so that was quite something to be introduced, let's say to that digging technique, which is frowned upon today. Of course, during your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=397.0,494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: long career, you had landmark explorations and discoveries. And I remember, you worked on a site in the White Mountains where there was discrepancy over dating. And at that time, the University of Arizona Dr. And do Ellicott Douglas had come forward with the science of dendrochronology tree ring dating. As I recall, you use that system to make rather a progressive movement and dating Indian ruins in Arizona.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=495.0,523.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, that's true. And I don't know how much should be said about tree rings as a tool for establishing the age of these ruins. But But briefly, we know the trees record time by adding a year of adding a ring each year. And the width of that ring is determined by the the amount of moisture that trees received and what years you put on a tree puts on a fat ring and lean years a narrow ring. So that what happens is if you look at the cross section of a tree, you will find a difference in the pattern of those rings. And that's an effect a fingerprint.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=524.0,564.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I want to pause right now I want to get back to this we'll take a break right now and be back to this I'd like to have you to tell us more about that dig in the White Mountains, and the site and the dating and so forth and what it meant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=565.0,616.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I should, I should like first of all, to go back just a little bit to explain more about tree rings. Remember the Dr. Douglas was an astronomer. But his side interest was Long Range weather prediction. So he needed to get a hold of something here on on earth that recorded past weather. Our weather records didn't go back far enough. So he had upon trees, because as I pointed out a moment ago, that fat and a good year that'd be a fat ring and in the lane near a small ring. So he worked over the trees in the Flagstaff area and came across the fact that you could you could cross date or correlate the outer rings of one tree with the inner rings of another tree, and by combining to make a longer record in a tree ring chronology then it was possible to get from any one tree. While he had worked back the chronology to about 1400 ad going back to some of the old beams that were in Hopi Kivas, and the old villages of Indian villages that were still inhabited. And the archaeologists had become interested in what he was doing and they supplied him wood from places like Pueblo Bonito, Aztec Mesa Verde, the Tata kinetic heat seal. So independently of the heavens historic sequence, which was embedded in living trees, I started with living trees. He had this floating sequence of between five and 600 years that if we could date those, placed them in the Christian calendar, we would have the ages definite ages of places like Pablo Nieto and these ruins that I mentioned. Well, it was to find that log that bridge that gap, you see the T unite these two chronologies that set us to follow. There's a ruinous shoulder now under houses, of course. And this was in 1929. And we were fortunate enough there to find a beam. And Dr. Douglas happened to be there at the moment. And and working over that he said he thinks that this is the right beam that this does bridge the gap. And as we work as he worked over that beam that night around the gasoline lamp, and the Shola Hotel, which is a converted home, he finally decided I'm I'm convinced that this does bridge these two chronologies unite them. And that means that Pueblo Bonito dates back in the nine and 10, hundreds, that the ruins in the Mesa Verde are in the 12th and 13th centuries, and so on. So that was a that was a breakthrough that I show along remember, in a very important moment in my life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=617.0,789.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I want to talk to you too, about the canals between Phoenix and Tucson, the whole column. I remember it reading many, many years ago that they were couldn't have been built by Indians because the Indians were savages as a table them and the canals had to be some other feature that they didn't have the technology, the engineering skill, you went in and you did a study and you establish some very interesting things. I'd like you to talk about that. Well, I should","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=790.0,818.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: say, first of all, that I wasn't the first one that excavated in these canals. These canals belong to a group of people that we as archaeologists called the Hohokam, which is quite a different group from those who built a pueblos farther north. But the oldest texts the earliest excavation, that canal was done by Frank Hamilton in Cushing in 1887. And since 200 years ago, and in our work in the 1930s. We did some further testing in these niches and established the fact that they were indeed, waterways that they carried water from the river ultimately, that's the healer River and distributed that water on their fields. That means these people were agricultural. And we're growing crops that plants that had been domesticated from the wild, and were producing the rains, substances that they need needed for food in those days, corn, beans, squash, the light. Of course, they also lived on native growing foods. But these canals are still some of them are still extant, many of them destroyed. But on the other hand, we do know that they existed that there are many hundreds of miles and pitches, and that these date back to the early years of the Christian era,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=819.0,906.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that you discovered that there were weirs are dams that they were willing to neared how in a harsh desert without our great mechanical equipment they How did they build such a network?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=907.0,917.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, with sticks and baskets, using the baskets to carry out the soil, but to sticks to loosen the soil and flat blades of stone. And then you just pack the soil out and then put it put the spoil dirt on the edges of the canal making banks. And of course, a waterway was in ready for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=918.0,938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But wouldn't we have to consider that to be something rather remarkable in history?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=939.0,942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And did you would because we wouldn't think of digging a canal today without a backhoe or some heavy equipment. Look at the Central Arizona Project, the machinery that's being used to dig that canal. And some of these old old Indian niches were almost as large as the canal at the CIP represents today. So these people were any slouches and they weren't lazy, and they worked hard for their food. And that was all it was all about. So Dr.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=943.0,972.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Harry, what you discovered in the construction of these homes, that the cliff dwellings, the destruction of the dams, and the waterways, give us a different picture of what we read in the early history of the savages of this area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=973.0,987.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, that was one of the popular misconceptions that the red man wasn't Savage, and that he didn't have the capacity to do these things. But we've known from our studies of different parts of the world, like in India or in China, or in South America, the Incas, the Aztecs, the Mayans, that they were all highly civilized people, civilized, depending on how you define them. The word civilization of course, they couldn't write, didn't write. But they many other things that we're certainly technologically advanced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=988.0,1029.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Good. We'll take a break right now and be right back. You I'd like to turn now to another great landmark in your career, your explorations and your discoveries at Ventana cave, to the east to the west of Tucson, I should say, and what you discovered there about early man in this area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1030.0,1089.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We were talking so far about pueblos and the canal builders. But we must remember that that's what that only takes in about the last 2000 years. But people were here in Arizona. The initial Arizonans must have gone back at least 11 to 12,000 years. And they find quite a different environment, different animals, many of which are extinct now. So that beginning with that, we have a long story coming on up to the historic times. Well, Ventana cave was one of these places where people people frequented the cave, periodically, or in some cases permanently over long periods of time. And wherever people live for any period of time they collect garbage. All you have to do is to go out on a Sunday picnic, and find out what what we do or leave behind as evidence of the fact that we had a picnic there, these people left their garbage will out accumulates after a while. So it becomes very deep and Ventana cave had a deposit about 15 feet deep. Recording the passage of time and recording. There were signatures there, let's say signatures in quotes of the people who lived there through the millennia, leaving behind their refuse. And so the exploration of that was an important contribution I think because it carried us from the days when the Mammoth and the horse and the bison animals that are not extinct existed up to the time when people were living off of plants and they produce the land let's say nature's grown produce, then under the time of Agra culture and the production are making a pottery and up to the historic moment. So that was a long record.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1090.0,1205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How did you discover Ventana cave to begin with then and do your work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1206.0,1211.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That was that was my accent. It wasn't by me smart. So we had it was because we had been stopped in our excavations on another site where we wanted to connect history and prehistory. And that marker between history and prehistory as at 1540, the coming of the Spaniards coming of Coronado, let's say, and we had worked in a historic pappagallo site for sure, wow. And we were forced to quit. So in searching for another place where we could pursue that problem, we were we accidentally, as it were stumbled on Ventana cave and immediately changed our Modus, our plan plans of operation and start to dig there. And that turned out to be a very rewarding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1212.0,1261.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What is the feeling the Imagine must be very exhilarating feeling when you came down to the base discovery, to learn how long man had been in that area?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1262.0,1273.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, it wasn't exactly a surprise because we had already had evidences in other parts of America of the early existence of man. But it was useful for us to find out that these evidences a man and the the P historically extinct animals were kept by all this later material representing later civilization or later, later people. And that was later verified by the fact that we found out in southern Arizona places like the NACO, Mammoth and the mammoth set on a later Ranch, where we have definite evidence that man killed these animals, butcher them, cook them, and from the charcoal that came out of those fire pits where they cooked these animals. We have radiocarbon dates in the neighborhood of 11,000 years. Well, this is pretty definitive evidence","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1274.0,1328.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm intrigued. Can you can you reconstruct for us what man looked like roaming these desert lands?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1329.0,1335.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I think if you saw one of them walk down the streets of Tucson today, you wouldn't turn your head around and look at him twice, except for the fact that he was wearing a different Garver had very little on. But as far as his physical makeup was concerned, he was a fully modern man, and would look very much like the sum of the Indians in Arizona today. So that we don't have any major changes in that respect. But we do have major changes in the way he made his living. And in the things that he did, I want","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1336.0,1367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to turn to something less pleasant than these great discoveries. Your work throughout the southwest, turned up many, many great finds and so forth. But an awful lot of of the fines had been taken by looters. And I think a lot of history has been lost. Because this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1368.0,1388.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: there's no question about that you, it's difficult to find a rule in these days that has not been vandalized. And that's because they the artifacts that are recovered, notably pottery hole vessels, fetch such a big price 10,000 15,000 $20,000 per pot of particular kinds, well, you only need to find a few of those a year and you might you can make a pretty good living. So that many people have turned to the vandalization of these ruins the recovery of this material, but in the process, they care about nothing else. And therefore it's like tearing pages out of a history book. And they're they're destroying the record irretrievably,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1389.0,1433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: who pays $10,000 for pot? And where do they go","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1434.0,1437.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: collectors. And I may say that the markets are lucrative markets are let's go to Los Angeles, then they go to Paris, go to Europe or go to Japan. And that's where the lucrative markets are to say nothing of some American collectors who have vast collections of this kind of material.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1438.0,1458.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Would there ever be any way to stop the looting in your feeling?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1459.0,1462.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well as we have to educate people to the fact that this is important and valuable material, and it wants us destroyed, it's lost forever, it's irretrievable. And so we have to educate the people to the value of these remains, and in so doing hope that we can cut down on this whole industry as it were. Randalls,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1463.0,1486.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Dr. Harry, I want you to know we all take great pride in the great career that you have had in bringing us the light of history on Southwestern Arizona and New Mexico throughout our entire Your area and I thank you very much for being here today with us on eyewitness to history. We hope you'll return with us next week when we bring you another outstanding guests to eyewitness to history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212#t=1487.0,1489.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1978/collection_resources/74352/file/160212/transcript/38293/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/038/293/original/azu_ms685-005_a.vtt?1654113393","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/038/293/original/azu_ms685-005_a.vtt?1654113393"}]}]}]}