{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/cf9j38n69m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Sam Steiger"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 3, tape 49"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Steiger, Sam, 1929-2012 (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2001-06-08"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Prescott (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Sam Steiger conducted by Julie Ferdon. Steiger served in the Arizona State Senate from 1960-1964 and a Senator in Washington after. Stieger worked with Udall on the Central Arizona Project and on the Interior Committee."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.040 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Sam Steiger conducted by Julie Ferdon. Steiger served in the Arizona State Senate from 1960-1964 and a Senator in Washington after. Stieger worked with Udall on the Central Arizona Project and on the Interior Committee."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms396-040_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1554.864,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/324/original/azu_ms396-040_side1_a.mp3?1744847913","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1554.864,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, this is tape number 49 of the Morris K Udall Oral History Project. Good morning. It's Friday, June 8, 2001 and we're in the office of Mayor Sam Steiger in Prescott, Arizona. I'm Julie for Don, and I'd like to thank you, Mayor Steiger, for participating in this project. Let's start with a little background, you were born in New York City in March 10, 1929, what? What brought you out west and then Prescott,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1.0,28.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I came, I came to a dude ranch when I was 12 in at a snowflake. It was an outfit run by the turleys, Stan Turley, who ended up as Speaker of the House and President of the State Senate, was, that was his mother and dad ran it, Fred and Wilma Turley, they were running this operation. And I went out there for I was a camper there for two years. I got and then I came back and worked in snowflake and did stuff like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=29.0,60.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay? And how did you get to Prescott from snowflake? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=61.0,67.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I went to, I graduated from Fort Collins, what was then Colorado, A and M, practical education at a mile high level. And I went to work at the steeple ex out of Springer Villa ranch. And then I was drafted for Korea. And when I came back from Korea, I came here,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=68.0,88.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and you've been here since, basically, except in Washington. You served in the Arizona State Senate from 1960 to 64 and then ran in 64 an unsuccessful campaign for Congress at that point in time. Around 64 Had you met or or knew about Mo Udall at all? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=89.0,110.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: actually, yeah, I knew. I probably knew Stu better than I did mo at that point, but yeah, I had met them both. You know, because of the political as you know, then Arizona was much smaller, and I knew I was going to run, so I availed myself. But and Mo was always very cordial. He wasn't, you know he was. He was capable of extreme partisanship, but he never let it interfere with his personal relations. So he was always very cordial. I remember that in the early days","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=111.0,149.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1966 you ran again for Congress, this time successfully, against incumbent George center when you went to Washington DC, representing the third congressional district, and Moe was there representing the second congressional district. Moe had a way, I understand, of taking newly elected Arizonans under his wing and sort of showing them the ropes. Did that happen in your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=150.0,177.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: case? Well, you got to remember to put it in the proper context, we were in the short rows on the central Arizona project, and so it was probably the high water mark of cooperation within the delegation, because everybody was focused on the same goal. Fact, we met Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, every afternoon in Carl Hayden's office for two years, while we were getting it, you know, we would have the, of course, the entire delegation, as you know, was, was Mo and John Rhodes and me was in the house. And then it was, it was Carl Hayden and Paul Fannin was in the Senate. Then, interesting little sidebar. We met every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday in Carl's office at two o'clock in the afternoon. That was a standing deal. And in two years, Carl never learned my name. He used to always say, is that boy from Prescott here and Moe got through, of course being Mo, about the third week of that, he said, Yes, Senator, the boy from Prescott here, he would say it before he asked,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=178.0,254.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were these meetings? So these were meetings with the entire delegation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=255.0,257.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: What we were doing was brainstorming, you know, and keeping everybody abreast of what, of what the legislative situation was, you know, the procedurally we had to get it out of the house, interior Committee, which Mo was on and I was on, and then, because I had to go to the floor of the House, and then the Senate was to take it up after that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=258.0,281.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm curious, were staff included in these meetings? Not often,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=282.0,284.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: although Roy Elson, who was the Carl Hayden's guy, was always there, yeah, because everybody told me that Carl was along in years. Then, as you know, way along in years. And. And everybody said that if I could just come over some morning, because he was better in the mornings, but I never saw him without Roy in the afternoon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=285.0,310.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It's interesting how different that would be compared to now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=311.0,315.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you couldn't have a meeting without without","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=316.0,318.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: staff there. Yeah, no. When, when you arrived, you're, you're known as a bit of a rebel yourself in your time, and when you arrived in in in Washington, MO is leaving leading a bit of a rebellion himself, a rebellion against the seniority system the year you arrived, he introduced a resolution to strip Adam Clayton Powell from his chair. That was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=319.0,347.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: my first vote in Congress. Was it really was to affirm that no, no was to was to affirm the rejection of the seating of Adam Clayton Powell. Okay, you see what more just one takeaway is, to which they did do. And then there was, and then a Democrat. And I don't remember who it was. It wasn't mo but a Democrat then challenged his seating, and, and he wasn't seated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=348.0,374.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And, and you, you voted in favor of not seeing voted in favor. That","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=375.0,378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was my first vote. Isn't that interesting? Fact, I remember I asked Moe what he thought, and he I believe that Moe also bought him at the seat. You got to remember, there was we thought there was a higher standard than that we ought to be held to, and that Adam Clayton Powell hadn't been held to that standard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=379.0,398.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: But that was still fairly unprecedented, wasn't it, too? Oh, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=399.0,402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know. Historically, it may have been a first, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=403.0,406.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah. So that's interesting. Your first vote in Congress was with Moe on a measure that he had. A year later, Moe challenged Speaker John McCormick for the chairmanship, and a year after that, he he challenged Hale Boggs for the majority leader, failing in both attempts. I know you were on the other side of the aisle, but you were a brand new freshman Congressman subject to the seniority system. I wonder what what you thought about this little rebellion. It was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=407.0,439.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: obviously we were very interested. And as you know, subsequently I had to lead, because it was, I was the only other Republican in the Arizona delegation when we, when we got John Rhodes elected as minority leader, we had the same kind of situation that Moe was up against. We had two large states with big delegations were were vying for the speakership. And, and Mo, you know, was alone, a lone vote from Arizona and so, so we were very interested tactically and, and, as you know, Mo's strength was clearly not in the size of the delegation. It was everybody liked Mo. I mean, that was just one of those. Mo was across the aisle. Was uni was universally respected and liked","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=440.0,494.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: on the Republican side of the aisle as well, well, because","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=495.0,498.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he, he was never his, his he was partisan. He was very loyal Democrat. But he, you know, he was never ugly about it, and he never, in fact, he, you know, he wouldn't campaign against sitting Republicans for other Democrats, which is kind of interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=499.0,519.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I wonder if I've heard that a number of times from people who served in Washington, and I wonder to what extent he was appreciated for that in his state.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=520.0,528.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: None. Yeah, well, they don't understand. In fact, I used to kid him. I tell him I was the best. I always thought I was the best legislator that ever went to Washington, but nobody here knew or cared. And it just not something that you never a profit in your own home. Well, yeah, and, you know, and I understand it, I mean, it doesn't the whatever abilities it takes to be a good legislator are not the kind that make good copy. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=529.0,557.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: same thing that happened to Jim McNulty, sure,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=558.0,560.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he was very good, excellent, yeah, but then was very lucky, yeah? I mean, the idea that a guy like COVID could be the guy like McNulty is absurd, in my opinion,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=561.0,573.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, yeah, that's as part of the same syndrome. Yeah, exactly. You were assigned to the interior committee, along with with Mo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=574.0,583.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: That was, and Mo and John both insisted on that because they was, you know, it was because we needed the votes on the because California had five votes on the interior committee, and Mo needed some help.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=584.0,598.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And. Was that for all issues, or primarily, there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=599.0,601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were no other issues, that was the only issue. As far as Arizona,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=602.0,607.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was the cap getting it through? Do you? Do you have, have you had any 2020, hindsight regarding the cap? Sorry, we did it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=608.0,620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I believe that there was a plan to have the state do it itself, which would have been it would have worked beautifully, and the Feds would never it would have cost a third what it cost, and there would be a continuing cash flow. The one problem with it would have meant another dam, and that would have almost certainly, I mean, that would, that would have been a problem in subsequent years. But now the Feds messed that up something terrible. I mean, they really did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=621.0,651.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: yeah, I believe Stu Udall has voiced regret. I believe mo had regrets.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=652.0,656.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think everybody he remember he complained about it, no, but mine was not so much on the esthetic, so that the burying of Glen Canyon, or any of that mine was that it was just handled so badly. I mean, it was managed so badly, overspending and just regulation that made no sense that kind of thing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=657.0,683.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: on the on the interior committee in other issues, you Mo was, at that time, ranked very high among environmentalists, and you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=684.0,695.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were at the I was a Dirty Dozen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=696.0,696.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's right, you were opposite side of the spectrum. Was a dirty dozen legislature with a with what was considered the worst voting record on environmental issues. Does that mean that you and Mo found yourselves on opposing sides? You know, quite often,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=697.0,710.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I'm sure we did, but I don't remember it as any contention between us. You know, we both understood where the other was coming from. And it was not, it was not something that that bothered either one of us. In fact, subsequently, the chairman of the committee was a guy named Aspinall from Colorado, and there was a another really rapid, deep breather on the committee named Phil Burton, who was even more. He was a radical environmentalist from San Francisco, and he and I became good friends, and we took over the committee. We took it away from the chairman, because I had all the rednecks and Phil had all the droolers. So we between us, and we found we most issues were non ideologic and none. And we could, and we could do what we wanted on those. And so we for about three years, four years we we ran the committee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=711.0,774.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, I want to go back a little bit to when you were saying that you and Phil Burton controlled the interior committee, was, was that a matter of just diffusing Aspinall by by numbers or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=775.0,789.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, we would just, we would outvote him on procedural matters. I mean, that was unheard of fact, I think, I don't think he figured it out for almost a year, Aspinall, you know, we just wasn't done. It wasn't, in fact, Mo, I didn't share it with Mo. I don't think, I don't know if it or not, but mo finally came to me one day and he said, I'm not sure, Aspinall knows what you guys have done. I remember him telling me that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=790.0,820.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that's, that's, that's fascinating. Yeah, you co sponsored a couple of things with mode, weren't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=821.0,826.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you? Yeah, in fact, you got to understand they were, and I don't even remember what they were, but you got to understand that there was, you know, the the legislation that impacted Arizona was, was, was not a partisan, ideologic thing. I mean, fact, I remember the first bill I got passed was the was the establishment of the Hubble trading post as a historic site. Well, Mo helped me with that. I mean, you know, I didn't know how to do it. And Moe worked, you know, he, he helped me. That was the kind of thing. But we did that all the time. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=827.0,859.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: about non Arizona issues, such as the Surface Mining Control Act or the Alaska Lands Act we were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=860.0,867.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: on? I mean, I was a big build the pipeline guy, and he was a stop the pipeline guy in Alaska, and I thought that the I didn't think that the I thought that the strip mining ought to, ought to be regulated, but that the regulations weren't realistic, that, you know, and so we were generally, you know, on opposite ends of that one. But for example, his, I supported his pack, his. Say, you know, he's the guy who established political action committees, and it sounded like a good idea at the time. I mean, it was, I remember,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=868.0,910.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: how do you mean he was the one who","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=911.0,912.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: still, that was more, that was the seems as if Arizonans are destined to do campaign finance reform, but that was Moe's deal. Moe, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=913.0,925.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: mean the Federal Election Campaign Finance Reform Act? Yeah, with John Anderson. Yeah, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=926.0,932.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and, you know, I It's interesting what, what created that most people have forgotten, but some guy had given Nixon a million dollars or 500,000 which was in those days, was, you know, you that was all the money in the world, and you could, and there was no limitation, and that's what prompted that. Actually, Anderson got on Moe's coattails on that one, because Moe was the one who really did that one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=933.0,959.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=960.0,960.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, no, I remember that too because, but that's when John had decided he was presidential material. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=961.0,969.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: did. What was your position on, on the I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=970.0,972.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: support it, yeah, I was wrong, but I support it. But no, actually, in fairness, it was a Jim. It was a thing that was evolving. And what we didn't consider, you know, though, there we had listed a maximum of 63 packs. I remember it very well. And today there are something like 15,000 or something. Couldn't even begin this. Yes, nobody envisioned,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=973.0,998.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: uh huh, yeah, yeah. Well, you, you saw mo both as friend and and faux in legislation. Was he any different?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=999.0,1007.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, no. The fact, you know, the one thing about mo that, aside from his good humor and everything, was but, you know, you wouldn't lie to you and, and if he said he'd do something, he'd do it, or, I guess, under and I don't remember, I really had no memory of him back but if he did have to back up, he'd come tell you before the vote, you know, he'd say, Hey, I got to quit you on this one or something. I mean, he never, ever left you hanging out. He was always gentlemanly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1008.0,1034.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: young.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1035.0,1035.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He was a class act. He clearly was a class","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1036.0,1040.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: he was chairman. He was, I believe, in 73 named chairman of the Subcommittee on energy and environment, which I believe you were also on, right? How was he as a, as a committee chair? He was very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1041.0,1052.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: fair. In fact, we remember, we always used to think that nobody in those days envisioned the time when they'd ever be a Republican. So we always used to think that Mo, you know, we wished Espinal would just stop running, because Moe was the second ranking on the committee, and we figured that, you know, he'd be a chairman, and he'd be a very good chairman. The staff liked him because he, in addition, to a sense of humor, which is really very valuable in most of these situations, but he, he also, he made it very clear that it was important to him to be fair, and that was a good thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1053.0,1095.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You were also on the Subcommittee on mines and mining. I'm curious what your stand was on the 1872 mining.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1096.0,1105.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I've always supported retaining it, and Mo has always supported repealing it. And I got to tell you that I don't remember, ever remember any rancor. I mean, you know the arguments are, everybody understands the arguments. But the fact is that I thought it was well designed, because it did encourage exploration, and eventually we would get, the government would get the benefits of the activity, because it would generate, it would stimulate, when they found something, it would stimulate economic activity. And the government always benefits and and I understood the that if you had a valuable piece of property, the government ought to get more than they were getting. Well, I thought that the incentive to go look for it was more important than the return to the government afterwards. And Mo, I will tell you, he respected that. He just didn't agree with it, but he didn't disrespect the position.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1106.0,1166.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I believe Stuart Udall is now very active again in trying to get it revealed. You mentioned humor and how important humor was. Mo, of course, is known for a sense of humor, and you've been known for a keen sense of humor as well. What do you see as a role of humor in politics? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1167.0,1187.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you know, there's an awful lot of tension, and the humor, reasonably well applied, is a great breaker, alleviator that. Tension, and that's a good thing. And in terms of your own getting your message across, you almost always are more memorable in what you have to say, if there's some humor associated with it than if it's just pedantic. And Moe understood that beautifully. I mean, he knew he would weave humor into narratives that would otherwise be very, be crushingly dull, but it would allow you to absorb the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1188.0,1229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: important part, help you keep focus. Yeah. Did you see a difference in the way you used humor versus a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1230.0,1239.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: way he used humor, I was a little tougher","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1240.0,1243.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: than he was less gentle. You mean mine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1244.0,1244.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was usually at the expense of somebody was much kinder.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1245.0,1253.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In going back a wee bit in 1969 Moe received a letter from Ron ridden our describing the My Lai incident in Vietnam. And I've heard that that ridden our sent the same letter to a number of members of Congress. Yeah, did you get one?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1254.0,1273.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was asked that by somebody else. If I did, I remember seeing the letter. I don't know if was addressed. Yeah, yeah, I would think I was a very junior member then, and I would, I would assume, not that you probably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1274.0,1286.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: haven't Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1287.0,1293.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: By the time you left Congress in 1976 you had worked basically with Mo for about 10 years. Had your opinion of him changed at all? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1294.0,1304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no. We became much closer, and we became, in fact, when I was in Tucson for something, I'd call see if he was there. He was would go have lunch kind of thing. If he was up here, he'd hunt me up if he could, if he had time, was at least call and say hello. You know, we were never close, but, I mean, just because the where we lived, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1305.0,1329.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so you did have some contact with him after you left. Oh, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1330.0,1332.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: And, and I'll tell you one was, I got, I got convicted of extortion when I was with mecha with Governor makeup, and I was I was set up by a Republican attorney general, but and Mo on unasked, wrote a Letter to the judge, asked, ask, ask, asking him not to incarcerate me, because I always thought that was way above and beyond the call. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1333.0,1367.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it was unsolicited, absolutely,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1368.0,1371.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: because Dennis D continue the same thing, which really stunned me, but because I did not have the same affection for him that I did for MO You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1372.0,1378.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: ran against him for Senate, didn't you yes and lost in 76 Mo, ran for president from the house. We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1379.0,1390.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: were laughing about that this morning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1391.0,1396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's something rarely attempted by members of the house. What was your reaction to his running? Oh, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1397.0,1402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: thought it was great. I must confess that I didn't think he he just was not enough part of the Democrat, old, good old boy network that he would be successful. But I thought it was great that he was willing to go through that because, you know, even then, it was just all killer in terms of demands on the you just have to give up your life. Yeah. I mean, really, it's just, and he cousin, he certainly knew that. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1403.0,1432.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: kind of President Do you think he would have made?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1433.0,1434.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, he'd have been great. I think he would, no, really, because, well, I mean, I think he would have espoused some things that I would have had difficult time with, but, but in terms of caring about the country and really sincere, not not interested in the historic memorial for himself, or that stuff, he'd have been Head and Shoulders about most of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1435.0,1455.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: them. I have one final question I ask everybody, generally, we end up talking a lot of a lot about very positive things about Mo. What do you think was Mo's greatest weakness? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1456.0,1469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he had he made when he made a political mistake in terms of legislation. It was a beauty. He was the father of the packs, which, which turned, which really ended up institutionalizing money in politics in a way that none of us, including him, intended. He was the author of the reform of the Postal Service, which, in my opinion, has been a terrible disaster. So were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1470.0,1496.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you there in Congress during that? Oh, yeah. You support that? No, no,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1497.0,1500.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: no, that was, I mean, that one was was written by the Postal Union, and we knew it, and Mo knew it, but he thought it was good. And I will tell you, he didn't do it because it was written by the postal he did it because he thought it was good, but it has turned out to be and so those are his two big national legislative legacies, and they're both disasters and that and but even you know, I will tell you I've got to ameliorate that by by telling you that those were done with absolutely good intentions on his part. I mean, they were. It was not the usual influence by somebody untoward. He thought that was the right thing to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1501.0,1544.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay? Well, unless you have any other comments, we're done and I thank you very much","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1545.0,1549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: taking the time to do this. Thank you. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324#t=1550.0,1552.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146516/file/270324/transcript/78645/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/645/original/azu_ms396-040_side1_a.vtt?1744914809","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/645/original/azu_ms396-040_side1_a.vtt?1744914809"}]}]}]}