{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/901zc7sk6q/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Takaski Hoshizaki Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["11/7/1999"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["spatial; Arizona--Tucson"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Lyon, Cherstin M. (interviewer)","Taylor, Peter (interviewer)","Hoshizaki, Takashi (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Takashi Hoshizaki, November 7, 1999 in Tucson, Arizona. The interview was conducted by Peter Taylor and Cherstin M. Lyon following the dedication of the Gordon Hirabayashi Recreation Site by the Coronado National Forest earlier that morning."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS390.08"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["The Tucsonians Oral History Project Collection, MS 390"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["There are no restrictions."]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Takashi Hoshizaki, November 7, 1999 in Tucson, Arizona. The interview was conducted by Peter Taylor and Cherstin M. Lyon following the dedication of the Gordon Hirabayashi Recreation Site by the Coronado National Forest earlier that morning."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["There are no restrictions."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms390_08_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2828.04245,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/729/original/azu_ms390_08_side1_a.mp3?1650394314","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":2828.04245,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_08_side1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All right. I know what you need to know. Okay, I don't get it. She will. We're interviewing Takashi Hoshizaki. He is a resistor from Park mountain. And shirts in line and P Taylor are conducting the interview. It is the sixth of November at about 315. In the afternoon, we'd like to ask you for a verbal release to use this material for the Arizona Historical Society records, and for possible publication later, is that our abuser?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=0.0,40.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes. So I'm Kakashi Hoshizaki. And I will then give the verbal release at this time. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=41.0,47.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thank you, we'd like to start off by asking you where you were born, and what your early life was like what your background was, as a young man before the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=48.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: war, okay. Perhaps I should go a little bit further back. My parents came from Japan. The alien Exclusion Act went into effect, I believe in 1924, my dad went back to Japan to marry my mother. And they entered the United States a few days before the Exclusion Act went into effect. And I was then born about a year later, 1925 October 3. At that time, my dad was helping his brother who had a import business importing Japanese goods and materials. And we lived just the east or southeast of Little Tokyo about a half mile to a quarter mile. And the business was in Little Tokyo. And so then, I grew up in that area. And thinking back at that time, 1925, the Los Angeles is still as you might call it, a small city. So there are many open spaces. And I remember as a child playing in a very open area between our house which was not the house, but it was a hotel, in which then the various workers of my uncle lived in the various rooms and so became like a boarding house arrangement. And then that area was between you the boarding house and Alamitos Avenue, which was the big railroad tracks that ran north and south through Los Angeles, that we'll talk here was then just west of Alameda Avenue. And in the very close vicinity was a Catholic church, Marino, and they in turn, had a education school system for the Japanese immigrants and their children like me, the staff, the priests, the nuns, were all well versed in Japanese. And so then we present converse in Japanese. And so at the very early part of my life, who's Japanese very little English. And it's interesting, because I can't think back exactly when I start picking up my English, but around 19 32,000, about six. We then my dad then left my brother's business, and to start up his own business, which was in the Hollywood area. And that was 1932. Very beginning of it. And I really can't remember if I had the stroke of trying to learn English, or what happened there. And went into from Catholic blank school for children into the Los Angeles Public School System. And it was interesting for me, because when I first entered the class, they presented the book that we were to read out of, and I think I was already in maybe the second grade, I believe. And I looked at the book and I says, Oh, he says, I read that whole thing already. And the teachers quickly got into a conference. And next thing I knew I was in. They didn't want this kid in here rabble rousing, even at that time. And so then, as I grew up, I was always the smallest, and the youngest of all my peers. So then that was in the Dayton Heights was was the area that grammar schools called Dayton heights, their grammar school","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=59.0,311.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: wasn't an integrated school","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=312.0,313.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: integrated in a way that their Caucasian kids mostly, I'd say, and that is a small Japanese community there. That's why my dad moved into the area. And I thinking back, maybe that may be something like 20% of the kids were of Japanese ancestry. We may have had a few. Yeah, the Taurus family. So there was a Mexican family there. And then we also had the recall to the blacks, the new growth. Yeah. And so we had, like, in my class, there was one of those who live virtually next door to me. So we're very close friends. So we said yes, integrated in a way, it was not in I think at that time, California was required now to have could not segregate the children or relative to their racial background. So from their what junior high school, and then into high school. And not again, the guest rollover point was December 1941.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=314.0,396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do you remember what you were doing and where you were when you heard the news of Pearl Harbor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=397.0,400.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes, pretty well. By that time, I was very interested in aviation, as most of the young kids through that period was Lindbergh and the development of aviation. And so used to build the fly model airplanes, and got to the point where I was flying these little small gasoline powered engines. And the place that we could fly him and be able to chase him for a long distance, if they got away from us was down where we call Rosecrans. In the Western, which was that round, where the even further south than the Los Angeles International Airport is located. So that quote, unquote, the country, and on December 7, I was out there trying to fly night and someone then related to me that no, there was a Western national, National Western Division Championship contest. And so I may have just sat on the side. But when I came back from that, because that was December 7, Sunday morning, I was out there when I got back probably around one or two. That's when I heard that this is wore off. And I guess from that point on. I was thinking that we were still here, because the next next day on Monday to go to school, it's kind of interesting to then sit around and talk to my schoolmates. And turned out most of them. In fact, I was probably the only Japanese in our little group that I ran around. And the reason that came about was, I guess, when as I was moving through school, they tended to divide the kids up in those who are more prone in math and science and whatever, with them, definitely. So I was in a group, it turned out that most of my Japanese friends were often to other parts of the class. And so when they had a class of 30, in a classroom, and the class itself was say, 200, I ended up in that group, there's all copy, and now yeah, nice American. So when I went back to school on Monday morning, we then sat around and talked about it in Bothy. I think the thing was, is interesting. The talk was there's very friendly we had some news as to what had happened in Pearl Harbor. But I don't think the news is that clear. So, remember, some of the conversation the gray very vague and and, and very little good firm information as to what had happened that you that I guess with them, when the war broke out like that, they is strict censorship. And later, we found out the real damage that had happened there, but that was all kept quiet. So there are too much informations what It had really happened. So I had no problems with the others. We got along fine. And then I remember I can't remember his name now. Somebody, Leonard Leonard was his last name. We then heard that he had, I guess he was older. So he had volunteered and, and he had volunteered, went into the Navy. And that was the last I've ever heard of him never. Where he was able to establish contact with him again. And then I guess the next point was when we suddenly heard in the neighborhood, through the grapevine that the head to get down to turn on Highland, which was the fishing village, down in the San Pedro area. And this is the group of Japanese who had made their livelihood fishing, going out to the deep sea, commercial fishing. The word came that they had to be, they had to move out from that area, because there's not declared as a military zone is down there in the harbor. And so the various families, and especially those who had relatives down in Termina, Island, we all the I didn't get involved because I was so young, but then those who had any kind of trucks or larger vehicle, all went down to the Terminal Island, which was about 20 miles plus, which in those days meant at least about 45 minutes to an hour's drive, not by today in a half hour or less. And they then help the families move out. But what it meant that what had happened was soon after Pearl Harbor, even that afternoon, the FBI came through and rounded up the men folks, or anyone who was a leader in the community, like maybe the the Japanese language principle, teachers, church people, they didn't touch too much. And then those who were president, so they'll say the quote will be equivalent of our VFW which was really not so much military, but as more social like we have today. And so the men folks in Terminal Island, were virtually gone. There wasn't a single older male around because not only were they picked up for the leadership, but also the fact that they're skippers of the boats, so on, they were just taken away. And so these people were without, let's say, manpower to move things around to pack up. And so the whole community, at least in our area, went down and helped them. And they only had 24 hours sleep. And so all of that happened immediately. Then soon we had people in our new people in our neighborhood, who are now doubling up and living with relatives or with friends. Now, going back to Pearl Harbor Day, I was quite astounded that the FBI, or whoever it was the government, people later we found out the FBI, had then moved through the neighborhood picked up all these people. And by nightfall, they were all mostly in our neighborhood. They were gone on December 7 On December 7 that afternoon. And then they just used to wonder about it. And now as time goes by, and you read the history and some of the documents that apparently the government had this list completely made up ready to move. And when jumping way ahead with the kids. I was at UCLA at that time. In Vietnam, the protests that students would come to me and say Dr. Hoshizaki did such and such assault. So you know, do you think the government do this or has this kind of information I said, you realize so, anyway, so that's happened and then once the people were in into the air, and then we get to hear and I guess I wasn't too apprised of it. But the proclamation then came out that we were now to leave, and then it only be came a matter of time as to whether we would look at these bulletins that were then put up on a neighbor's telephone pole and said, Okay, now the it's up to Western Avenue. Well, that's look to the west of us. And that's when the orders Yeah, the orders, relocate real quick relocated and finally hit our neighborhood says, okay now on May I forgot one may the 12th. And I said the irony was that was Mother's Day, we all gather and gather stuff. And the word was, well, whatever you could then carry, you could then bring. And we are now to be that the Hollywood independent church up there, which is about a mile north of us, and that we're supposed to be there on Sunday morning at such and such time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=401.0,954.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How much time were you given before you heard the order and you had to vacate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=955.0,959.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Probably a week. But we knew this was happening, because it happened block by block off our section by the section of the city. And so as this was going on, my dad then had to close this business. very fortunately for him at the time he was running a grocery store canned goods became was all rationed items became very an item that all the grocers are looking for. So when my dad closed the business, he then apparently had his connections and so forth, or let the word out that he had his mini warehouse full of these things. Sorry, remember, I was able to drive at that time. So remember, with one of his workers, load up a couple of trucks, you know, with canned goods, and so forth. We then delivered it across now. And so he cleared out our, our, the warehouse of all stocks, so at least he didn't take, he did it, he recovered the money on that, what he got return. But then, backing up a bit, we were now living in our own home, my dad started the business. And I marveled at him because he started this new business of So in 1932, which is in the midst of the Depression. The depression was while the market went down, and 29, but it really bottomed about 1932 Oh, this is when we started in business. Five years later, he had saved enough money. And I guess with the market now the prices are were very cheap. So he was able to buy a lot put up a whole home for us. And it was funny, we got to talking to the architect later. And he said, you know, because the house ended up with both floors. So far. This is Wow. Pretty nice. What had happened was 1937. Again, the market drop. And so the prices of all commodities, lovers, so forth, the bottom fell out again. And so the architect instead of taking the Prophet himself, he said he gave us an upgrade material. So say, Oh, this is neat. So now in 1942, as we're getting ready to leave, my dad's had to figure out oh, let me go back. December 7, came home. Wars are so family that you can wonder what's going on. Number one, my dad says Japan's gonna lose the war. Or they may lose the war and the wealth effect. Later on. We realized that he was educated in Japan went to was at a University and graduated out there. So he had a good feeling. And he was in business. He had a good feeling of industrial capabilities of Japan versus United States at that time so quickly, and he was keeping up the news to remember some of the other incidences so he had a feel for what was going to happen. So he said the occupants can lose the war. Well, then he turned around. So what are we gonna do with this house and across and we were diagonally across the street from the grammar school. And so he went proach the principle of the grammar school says, I'll lead you to our home and all you have to do is walk across the street with gas rationing and all the others could be a great savings in time and expenses. So the guy says fine. And then my dad made the lease for three years. And to this day, I looked at the lease. And when the war ended, and when the lease ended, he was not off more than a couple of months. Wow. I just want to get off the feeling of it. And so barely he realized, okay, these are the things that are going to happen if it took three years. So he made the list three years. And so the family then was back. Before the war ended, I can't remember exactly when, but it must have been in the spring of 45. My dad came back and then began to look around, see what, possibly the business that you can drive to the grocery store without because there's somebody else's in that particular grocery store area that he was in before. So then he found this rundown plant nursery. And so then he got into that business did very well there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=960.0,1274.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How was he incarcerated before her family","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1275.0,1278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was, he fortunately, was untouched, because I guess he was not so much as a neighborhood leader, he ran his his own business. And I guess for that he did really, and then he was he was sort of always laid back. He never pushed ahead to become bigger and do is do that type of thing. So more or less in the background type of person. And so for that reason, he was not the president of the little whatever society that their, their neighborhood, and so on. So he was passed over by credit for the community. In Yeah, in a way later on is when when he passed away, and I went through all this records, and so I got, you know, the some of the, the credit, or the people that owed him money, and I see that the family was in bad straits. So all I did was I picked up that piece of paper says, Okay, I found this in my dad's thinking. So here it is considered all because when you look at it, there's a small amount was kind of big, I guess at that time, because, say, the $1,000 Foods was quite a bit of money. And in those periods, and the interest rate was 6%. And then you carry this thing over. Here, forget it. So we just gave away the just close all the debts and just released the the dead, all those people. But that was kind of funny to look up and says, Wow, you know, he's kind of a generous guy. So did you have to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1279.0,1387.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: go to a staging area and between your home and whatever?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1388.0,1391.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, so So when now going back, we all gathered at the this church. Hope before that, because this, I think is kind of important, because now we had no idea who we're going to go. We had heard and my cousins decided to move go earlier, and they volunteered and went up to the campus man Snar, California. And then the people that heard what kind of an area was and sort of came up with great concern because it was in a desert area. So my dad went out and bought what is about a half of a half a gallon or a little smaller campaign for each of us. So we can go water and wherever we go, we'll have water. Most of the people then turned around and bought field loops or shoes that we could wear in that city shoes or anything that we can then wear wherever we land. And so this is a whole change that we're going so we're getting quote unquote, prepared to go. Big Question mark. And when we did get to the church, the neighbors very kindly took us and what had happened was that people said well, look, we can get these laundry bags. We never had laundry bags before. But these were standard laundry bags, heavy canvas laundry bag, threw everything that we thought we would be into it. There must have been some other ways of bringing things up because of all things my mother brought her sewing machine. She had a treadle sewing machine And because we're gonna go she called person over and we converted it into an electric quote unquote portable machine. Yeah, that weighed about 40 pounds that somehow we got it in camp. So there must have been a separate shipment, which I, I don't know, I'm gonna have to try to find out. So my my mother, so we went to Pomona assembly center stayed there about three months. And basically it that period of time was so that the government can finish these more or less permanent camps, say in our case, Wyoming, here in Boston and isla. And by August, we were our family was one of the first to then be transferred to Pomona to our pilots.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1392.0,1554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you know you're going to hard mountain for a considerable time? Or did you still not know where you would be sent to the last minute or?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1555.0,1565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't think we really knew. Because we didn't know Pomona. We got on the buses. And we ended up somewhere in my god, this is the Pomona fairgrounds when you were in Pomona,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1566.0,1581.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: did you have the opportunity to say, Gee, I forgot to bring this or that and go back to your house and get it or you were there and you had to stay","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1582.0,1588.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: there? No, we were there. We had to stay there. But I think probably if there was a medical emergency or medical need. I think something could have been arranged to do that. My My brother got sick. We never did figure out exactly what the problems were but he would have dizzy spells. And so then they sent him to the I think it was a County General Hospital, Los Angeles County General Hospital. And before we left for Wyoming before we left, he was back with us. He was alright, but couldn't figure out exactly what was going on. Yeah, so in Pomona, it was kind of brutal because the people were being brought into these quote unquote assembly centers. And they're coming in 1000 2002 and a half 1000 per day. We were one of the earlier ones and so I somehow ended up volunteering to work at the vessel because of the job well okay people that needed help someone to wash dishes or help prepare food so forth. Alright, fine. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1589.0,1665.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1666.0,1668.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and as the people were coming in, we had I think the puppy first and the only one mess all that was open. And I think we could feed something like maybe pick the jam demand 300 people at a setting. I think I'm just thinking back because that was about it. And there were maybe 20 of us are operating thing in one day. The head chef. After terrible I never saw a day like that my life is about folks is we've had two and a half 1000 people. And then when that was the peak, they began oh and other people were coming in they began opening other metal other facilities. So that was a peak time and then after that, the numbers that drops out something that was more manage. Yeah, we remember getting at something like what was at about 430 in the morning, starting out and in the Pomona fairgrounds in well that was a better time of the year but somehow it was very hot temperatures to get up into the 90s. And I would work I remember what get the breakfast going help there. Then we would clean up the mess hall or before we would do then that to help them sit down and have breakfast after all the others cleaned the place out. And then I remember one time it was so hot, I would then go home. shower, change come back 11 o'clock we would then start and go on to about two or 230 I'd go home again shower direct into this general play shower, come back and then do the evening thing we will be finished around about seven and so this will be had to be done, because people streaming in the number there. So we just went round and round this week. So that was at Pomona the problem there. And because of that condition, we did have problems and it was hot food poisoning, and poor people that had to stand in line for the very few toilet facilities. So it's got to be pretty brutal that way. But as things get settled down, and I would say probably in a month, or maybe two things settled down, because now that people are all in the camp, we did have various activities that were then started, I guess, keep people occupied baseball games, who had chose the people who are positions put on musicals, and so forth. So they get the activity trying to keep some sort of normal activity on those days, we didn't have television. So it was a do it yourself type of thing. And I think probably at that time, the seeds of starting various organizations or activities like flower arrangements, maybe classical dance, school soap began, and in August then we said, I think we did probably know where we were going. And so we then packed up again, and then got on a train. And again, you remember how we got on the train so forth, but do remember that was about a three or four day trip? This is wartime. So the melt movement of military goods took priority? Yeah, remember, we go so far that we sit Wait, that the trains, freight trains and combine all right that we bought, we will end up apparently North Korea northward because we ended up in I think we went through Washington, State of Washington and then Idaho, came in Montana. And then from Montana, we headed south into HeartMath. Wyoming, which lutein coating. So we did a long route around the way and we, the rumors, well, the talk would then go through the train. In at night. I remember somebody was looking at the train and says oh, this is Pocatello, Idaho guess he was. It says I've just confirmed Oh, this is where we were. So then I had an idea of how we had traveled to our mom. And that was a three day four day trip. The train personnel, the guest at that time is called color. Porter was very sympathetic to us. And so we got on the train and then we would sorry, it's time to go we have the dining room was air conditioned. And so when the hot train so forth, we got there. This is August. So it's very hard to get going through the in the desert area as he crosses very hot. So to get to the dining room was a real pleasure. You sit there and you cool off. But the people who worked the dining cars I guess were sympathetic to us. So we ended up sitting in now this is we here we were sitting doing nothing yet to breakfast. And this is my God. And this was one time where the rationing bacon was very hard yet. We have about three four specific to three eggs setup for us. For each individual. This is this is my God, so we can't Well, we'll try. Well, by the second or third day, they realize that we're not that accurate, we're not clean. So they cut the cord. In fact, some of the either my dad or some of the other people had gone and talked to him says look, we're wasting all the food, you know, just pick up the rations. They did. So I remember that. I was kind of surprised to get all that great food but then you couldn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=1669.0,2079.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The last time you had access to great food,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2080.0,2080.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: basically, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2081.0,2083.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was the reception like when you got to camp?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2084.0,2086.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, can't. I sort of look forward with with some pleasure because I was in the boy scouts by then. And so we'd always Go camping, go onto areas where there's trees, open areas. So we got off trying to look past it now Hey, this is like, quote unquote cap. Yeah, boy scout camp. And they warned us about rattlesnakes because they had just finished building in an area which was no one was there so you had to go snakes, rattlesnakes, all the other natural environment. And to me, Oh, hey, rattlesnakes Great. Glad to see you fight the gopher snake. But my sister's remembered good getting up train feeling very bad. Because they have never been that type of an area. And then the fact that they had built and broken the cover of the land. So when the wind blew the desperate so they remember that off cutting on that truck and then going over there. That's women. Myself, oh, you know who cares? So that there's so that was a two different kinds of responses. For me. It became sort of an adventure for my sisters. I mean, my God who did all this desperate gotta wash your hair and older younger than you. I will see all this. And I was I think 16 that. So my sister oldest sister's 14, we're about two years apart. And my brother was about 12 and then had three other sisters two years now. So be can eight and I guess six?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2087.0,2198.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were you assigned particular barracks all to yourselves, or did you have to share with other family?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2199.0,2205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, the barracks were set up to the parasites barracks, I guess it's a 20 by 120. But they were cut up into six apartments of varying sizes, they have one size is for a couple. And the other size would be maybe for a couple with one child or two children. And then in our case, we had six kids, mom and dad. So it made a total of eight. They assigned us to apartments that would hold easily for people. So we had two larger apartments, which is at the center of the barracks. And so we had our address that was been bought 12 Varick five, an apartment CDs or address with 12 Dash five CD. And they assigned it to us. It was not that bad. Well, when we first arrived, the buildings were just shelled, because these things were put up something like 90 days and very rapidly slapped together, no installation. And so in the first winter before the first one of our own crews, the Japanese Americans were in camp form carpenter crews got some material things that were staggering ran into material cost Celotex is a fiber board which have good insulating quality. They were to have put underneath the building insulation, padding insulation. But I think what happened was a they probably attempted to put it underneath but very rapid this the people who build these things, were not skilled carpenters, these are just people who were out of work. And the call went out this is okay practical pay was there all that came up with that they had the job for 90 days. And so they the padding, the wisdom can be nailed under the floorboards and we just had the beans and then the floorboard went over I think they're about one by six or one by four boards that were put out there and underneath there would be tacked on the insulation While installation sort of fell off or something they didn't bother to put it in because their fork was cold. But they did before the first winter put in the Celotex and so then we now had and when we moved in the cracks in the walls because the wood was very green and it shrank and if you look at the see all the way to the but they they put the solid takes up they finally got ceilings. And so then so the we had at least halfway decent quarters. And when Ventry came it was it was warm enough to turn the partitions like between departments. Thanks you Ah, yeah, that one it will be too bad for studying. And then the sub attacks will be going on both sides. So from apartment to apartment, but could you hear oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's like even today you live in a cheaply built apartment you can hear you can hear the radio television program like next door type of thing. But then going on then for our toilet facility showers they were then set up in a separate unit so that they were I've ever seen sort of a standard layout of a camp they would have what we call a block, which would be equivalent to what might be a standard city block. There were in our camp, there were 24 of these large barracks laid up 12 To eat side and the block the center was left open in two which then was placed the toilet facilities the laundry and shower rooms. And there's a div block is divided into half so that each half of the toilet and shower facilities and facilities and a mess hall attached to it. And so the number of people in each half block was probably around 300 Because the capacity that they had laid out for the vessel was about 200 kPa or something to them up number to be fed in each vessel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2206.0,2503.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you have a job in the mess hall again?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2504.0,2504.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, then we went over there naturally you had made friends with with I made with him Pomona? Simply sends the woman over there sort of grabbed me so I ended up again being what do they call it a busboy wash pots and do this so that's where I initially worked. And it was kind of nice because cheap we didn't you know we don't have to feed 200 some odd people it's all dependent on that food came in and each mess hall would have the same a lot. But you know cooks some cooks have murdered the food others make a gourmet dinner out of it. Very fortunately. Oh, I forgot his last name anyway No no was a chef for the Los Angeles Country Club. Oh, you know he he really knew how to cook and he knew how to handle different materials. And so the food was I would say very good. And I broke him I learned that because I use them I guess at that time I was always very picky about my food and complaining I said to no business you know this these cakes that are making so they their course is their turnoff so often fluffy like cake should be in snow says well, it says there are different kinds of flowers. Flowers that you make bread from flowers that you make cake from sofa. Oh, okay, so the only flower we got was just a standard ration I guess it would be military type. And so okay, we get cake. Yeah, you know, they're very coarse. And so he was able to do things with food that others couldn't and then it got to a point where I was cooking in and working in the kitchen to strictly volunteer, go okay, fine. And we didn't know where they're gonna get paid or not. Later on, yes, we would be getting paid but in so we had some young guys decided that they wanted to be cut and no experience of cooking. So the three of us are there. I guess the three was a team and the cooks in these vessels. And so they get together and do their best trying to cook apparently they did an awful job at home etc. Right. The powers to be came over to talk to them is okay, then somebody else come in to do the cookie. So in so again, in terms of quality of food, they all depend on who the chefs were and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2505.0,2675.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what it is. Did you grow some of your own food","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2676.0,2679.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: towards towards the end or what we had quote unquote victory gardens but the main main thrust of that whole area. These were placed there was to finish up the irrigation systems, the land reclamation projects that were going on in the 30s. Remember at that time, we also had the Dust Bowl and Oklahoma And so they're moving in and setting up irrigation systems setting up dams. And then from the dam, they ran the irrigation water, distributing at distributing it through various areas. HeartMath was one, the canals were more or less finished the main the heavy engineering work the sea map work along certain areas, but most of the canals as they designed, it required the sealing of the walls on the bottom. And the way that they will do that that time is they would then lay in the bentonite clay along the bottom and this clay then would get wet and swell and then form a seal. And so one of the big jobs that people in the camp did was to go out and finishes. So the crews that go up, and then finish off laying in the best night layer and then got the can the canal finish so they can transport water. Jumping ahead. One of the things what happened to me was later, I don't know how it came about. But they said that there's a because I was very interested in aviation that was more to engineering at that time. And and so the word came out that there was a position opened up in the engineering department. So I thought okay, great. Right there in the camp. And so I went up there and I got on the group and I ended up running, helping run surveys, laying out roads, setting up levels for fields. And then also I had some parts in the final group that didn't really do that much work but the group that laid up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729#t=2680.0,2682.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158729/transcript/40743/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/040/743/original/azu_ms390_08_side1_a.vtt?1670004869","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/040/743/original/azu_ms390_08_side1_a.vtt?1670004869"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - azu_ms390_08_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2127.04653,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/730/original/azu_ms390_08_side2_a.mp3?1650394318","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":2127.04653,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_08_side2 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and see what had happened because we had moved into an area that may look like where we were today up up above, in fact, says, yeah, the kinds of fields of grass are very dry, has completely transformed now into a farming community and see this green field alfalfa growing now, but so it's not, you know, here being the in the engineering group that I have a hand in bringing this transformation around. And so that was the thrust of the camp to eventually then go to this goal of bringing agriculture into this area, which didn't have sufficient water to actually grow crops. Did you ever have any conflicts with, say, unions or things during that time? No, no, no, not that I know, although there were conflicts between I guess workers are among the workers, and my dad, never quite really, maybe I should go get the record. But he had to appear in a hearing help in the camp. Because there is some conflict that between him and some other person. And the best story I got was that this other person was taking advantage of his position and doing something and so my dad said, that's wrong, and I shouldn't be doing this. And so those come anyway, they had a hearing about it. And I remember, at least my dad was, was vindicated, or at least his, his idea was an acceptance of that. So there were these types of companies, they're also going back much further problems with what we would call a informers and, and then some cases that people that J sail will then be accused of being informers, which later on that, looking through the record, that wasn't too far missed. The accusation had some bearing on that. So there were these types of things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=5.0,164.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Other than that, the day when the the draft was started up again. And at that time, I would be more than willing to go in but I'm very interested in aviation. And so I said, Okay, I'm probably gonna, like go to the airport. This is No, forget about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=165.0,193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Ended up in the army. I said, Well, that's not good. But then on top of that, sit back. We were in these camps. And when we had first gone in going way back in camp, I had again, some, I guess, all through my life, when I was stressed it up as being the youngest of our peer group, and so on, I tended always to latch on to guys that were two, three years, four years older than me, I would always be the youngest. And when we went into camp, this is one of the things that had happened. And these older people who were college students, and they were pitching griping about, you know, our constitutional rights should be happening, so forth. And then they were making accusations of what the Japanese American Citizens League JCL, or they had failed and doing things and so a 16 year old, a junior high school, listening, and so I got a feel for what's going on. And then I remember, I says, you know, so that's terrible what it happened to us. And so then I wrote a letter back. Can you see I was gonna write a nice letter back to my homeroom teacher and say, how things work, so forth. So I sat down and narrowed. I said, what, what had realized what had happened, that we were then put into these camps and so forth. I wrote it. And I guess the letter sounded pretty bitter. Because she wrote back and said, I'm sorry that you felt you feel this way about what What's happening and so forth. But then I always wanted to. So that was said communication and there because then I guess I was more interested in getting other things done. So this was a teacher back in California. Yeah, this is a teacher back. Well, this is why I still in Pomona. And so I wrote back to beltline High School to my homeroom teacher said, This is what I felt, realize that these things had happened. And so she was, I guess, really, the letter was was pretty bitter or really spelling out, but I find her talking to these others. And so by the time the draft came around, I had a pretty good idea of what was going on. And then it's said, Well, I can't get into the Air Force. It says, Well, I decide I'm gonna draft me I'm not going to currently, many of us made independent decisions like I did. Now, about that time then, the fairplay committee began to then distributed, the Bolton's put them on. And the best place that everybody went around was was to, to the to the toilet facilities. And they had a nice little term for it. I've forgotten what it was. But I got wind of also having this meeting. So I said, Well, why don't I just go in and see what's going on? I said, Wow, these guys reacted the way I feel. Well, bunch of others do the same thing. And in one of the meetings, I guess I got up and they said, Well, he knows about you guys, but he said the way things declined to this effect that I said, says I'm not going until all these seats gets squared away. And with that, I sat down, and one of the other guys later I met Oh said you were that guy appointee. But when we were finally arrested, and we were then put together, I guess there was so many they were actually you know, 63 by the first law at heart about at heart, Bob. Well, there's so many of us that the county jails around the area couldn't hold us. And so we some were put up and I think Clara means Cody. So we're scattered all over Wyoming. I ended up in Casper. And in that group that I was in I did not know any of them before. And it turns out that as we then later we got as at trial 63 With I know I can't recall really CD saying Oh, hi Joe, you know, fancy new enter. But it turned out that many we didn't discuss this with other people. These were all independent decisions. And that would make an exception because there were brothers in the same family. So they probably had discussions. But other than that, then it was not until the second group came in that I knew someone before. But the leaders, the fairplay committee leaders, I knew from before because they were in our Judo gymnasium back in Hollywood. That was Frank Kenny. So I knew him. I knew him before, but I didn't I was not you know the promoters. Name is familiar, but no, I would say no, I did not. See, I guess at that age group. Say you're 16 If somebody is 22? I mean, that's a whole nother generation. Yes. Yeah. And so that Frank was I think pranks are most can use all of that. So so. So that's why I knew his name and so forth. But that was about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=194.0,570.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How did your family react to your decision to resist?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=571.0,575.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did they support you? Oh, yeah, they did because later as I'm going through the various records, I discovered that it was my father who then headed up well, with a large number of us. What they did was a and then the size of the camp. They blocked off the camp. I guess the lake committee blocked it off and get a little bit more of an organized stay and my dad became personal, he may have volunteered now, if there's donations to be collected that he would be collected from the families within this part of the of the camp, so forth. So I know that that my dad supported me in that way. And when they came to the trial, I never did find out, who put the money up, how much they contributed. So for this, maybe less records or loss, but frankly, my dad then did probably help compute the money to pay the lawyers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=576.0,637.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were all 63 of you put on trial simultaneous, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=638.0,640.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And that turned out to be the largest mass trial in history, the state of Wyoming and then I read recently is the largest mass trial draft violators, I think, in the history of that mistakes. Yeah. And you obviously lost the case. Yes, yeah. And it was interesting, as we were there thought, well, on the constitutional basis, they look good, and others saying, Well, you know, we were out and, like, within the prison, and one of the things that can be in draft statute says that they will not be drafting prisoners. So he said, Well, okay, on that basis, it looks pretty good, maybe we'll get our chance to make our stand. But then, at that time, which I did not know, an editor of the Wyoming Eagle, had published, had written an editorial, not so much the fact that we were a bunch of practices, but he then focus on the constitutionality of our stand. And he had indicated in his, his editorial, that this is something that the lawyers that legislate people will be really focusing on, see what the outcome of this will be. And that the common people wouldn't care less of what was happening. And so there was quite a number of reporters asking questions at that during the trial, which I did not need during but when they heard our story, those who had talked to the reporters that they were very sympathetic to our to our stand to our views. And then suddenly, this, quote, support so forth, began to evaporate. And later on, I in going back now you're 50 years now, was a mature person with Tiger and began to look into these things. Find that all? Apparently, the head of heart mouth, the director had heard what was happening in Cheyenne as sympathy was beginning to build up among the reporters. So then, the story I got was that he then said, the director of the camp sent a representative to then explain from the director site, what was happening. And I began to wonder Saatchi if we can get some information on what has transpired over the telephone calls with the be records of those. But suddenly, now, the whole thing turned around and then instead of now unconstitutional part, which Senator had brought up, prior to the trial, completely disappeared, became, did we or did we fail to report to our induction notice for our physical exam, that what was your sentence? We received three years, everybody, y'all 63? Because we took it as a consolidated case, said doing it individually in this way. It made it easier for the for the government and kept things a lot cleaner. Was there a jury? No, we selected a non jury trial because we thought that this judge was presenting it before the jury, a judge on the constitutional basis, would be more meaningful instead of trying to go to a jury and trying to be a sympathy in terms of personal relations, so forth. And we felt that the the jury would really be persuaded by constitutional grounds. So we flipped over and led to the judge when you made your decision to resist did you have given any thought to what consequences might be how long you might be in prison. Whether you'd be yes, we knew that it would be five years maximum. I forgot what the fines are 5000 $10,000 or whatever. But so we'd be like that as well. Okay. You were probably 17 by the 18. Because I had to be granted. That's very. Yeah. So anyway, that so the trial, then we got three years. And then we part of the story, there's a time that we went to prison, but it was very strange. I cannot remember going from the Cheyenne prison. I know we went by train. And I know that three of the guys went by car, because the marshal had to then formally transfer a student to the McNeil Island prison. But remembering that I don't remember the ferry boat going to the island, but the others did. So the stories are together. So it's off the coast of Washington, right and between, Southworth Tacoma is in Puget Sound area. But that is no longer he says, close that facility down. So I forgot to change it something else. But we spent the two years that two years we had, we were bought on go live of prisoners, we work and so therefore we get what we call good time, which that reduces each month, so many days, and I forgot what it was. But I think it's total something like three or four days of each month, what you did cut up with give the guards a hard time be reduced from your sentence. And so in the two years time we had generated at least one year of good time. So then they could not, by law hold the sentence any longer. So we had to leave. Now normally, it's three years while a sentence normally. When 1/3 of the time is served, say for three years, one, one year is served for three years. Generally, a parole hearing is held. And so someone getting a three year sentence. Usually we'll be getting out in one year. But we were never given that privilege. And the reason is, one of the guys intercepted a letter from I guess Delamar, I guess that was our director of harbor had written specifically for the Bureau of prison says don't release these days. Because if that was the third release in one year, you'll be just a slap on the wrist. And then could we go on one year tack, we're back into the camps where they said, Don't release these people in that sense. But again, being a good administrator, the wordings were such that you could fit into that, but he said by name that was implied. So on McNeil Island, was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=641.0,1089.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it a regular prison cells, like you see in Alcatraz?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1090.0,1094.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes, for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1095.0,1096.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: duties","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1097.0,1098.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that I covered put that in there. It was an island. Yeah, it's in here, but I'll go very quickly over it. It's an island by three by four mile. There are two basic prison facilities there. One was what we call the main line of the big house, which is the kind you see in the movie that the bars and concrete Bob wires, search lights, guard cars, etc. And then outside of that, the rest of the island, there was a facility which was like the like the prison camp up here. no bars, no barbed wire, so forth. And it was a farm that was designed to actually help the prisoners who were there for a long time. Get out of the prison atmosphere, environment and tried to slowly adapt to the standard civilian kind of life. So there they would then be able to when they are finally released, to adapt themselves into society. That was big.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1099.0,1167.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: A press pretty aggressive for back then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1168.0,1169.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, very nice. And so we and then there are others who would have considered attractive as model prisoners, even though they had a long time to go or even prisoners who had a lifetime of thought a chance of parole. They were then sent to these farms and so we call it the farm because basically what we did was that we went out work the fields, harvested the the fruits from the apple tree Using the pairs for the prison population. So that's what we did. So basically, we went through the main prison to make out through our quarantine period, through our time that day, I guess did the various documentation, and so forth. And then we were then sent out. Yoshi and I don't agree on how long it was that we were there. But we were then sent directly out to the farm. And that's where we stayed on time. Now the minute Doka group, apparently, maybe it was because of the farm facility was full. The minute Dr. Boyce could do that, or I don't know, maybe they there are other reasons. Maybe they just kept the two of us apart. I really don't know. But we never got a chance to really mingle with the the draft ancestors from Vanderbilt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1170.0,1258.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We're all 63 of you sent to like Carolina","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1259.0,1262.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: know, the back room again, I guess, because of the number they split us up. And they sent the older people those who are I think 26 and older were then sent before which was really standard prison. I don't think they're they had anything like a farm kind of facility. And the younger ones like myself and were sent to McNeil Island. And then we were put out. So that was split up. So there are 63 of us what I forgot about half and half Yeah, I think or 33 of us like to make money or 30 went to like four. And by the time your sentence was over the war was basically just about over or the war was was over. Yeah. Because I remember I was up I guess I got tired of working in the filtration plant was my chemistry background. The I ended up working there helping purify the water so far. I was out on that workgroup, chopping weeds. And then that's when I heard that the war was over. So then we that was August. Yeah. And so then we spent another 10 months. And then we were they really said no, you don't feel everyone's good. We got up July of 1946 on your app. Now, if you remember the date was one of the other CEOs as he says you're getting out on Bastille Day, July the 14th. And and later on, I learned the real significance of Bastille where you know the aristocracy, the peasants that came in. So that was the Yeah, so So in two years, and then we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1263.0,1375.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: left. So it was your family already. Back in California or back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1376.0,1380.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in California. My dad then had started up this nursery. And when I got back, they swung it and then help them out. And that was I was home in July. And then September, I had already made plans to go back to school. And then in September, the Los Angeles City College, I think it's called junior college debt, but it doesn't have a two year college. That's what we call a community college today. So I went there for the first two years plans, because it was cheap. I think it was like $6 a semester. Yeah, take 16 units, you want to take 95. And so I went there for two years, and got my eighth degree and then transferred over to UCLA in finished up my Bachelor's of my work. So that would be Yeah, Bachelors of Science degree, UCLA, then mixing as well decided to go on to and I qualify for graduate schools. And then I went ahead and went to work for my masters. And about that time the draft board started to come after me. Yeah, for Korea, and I go, Oh, wait a minute. I was I want to finish this for my master's degree. And so I held them off. I got my degree. And in the meantime, I got married. But so then 1953 or the army, I was drafted into the army, and because I had gone to school at UCLA there, and the staff knew me pretty well. And so it's slowly gonna get drafted. This is yeah, okay, so then they wrote letters. You're not I was slated to go work in Frederick, Maryland, and this is where the Biological Warfare Center. Okay, quite keen on biological warfare, but you do some basic sites, I suppose, okay. So I was fun eventually went to basic training, one of the short eight week courses for specialists, which is classified as and then I went to Maryland and waited around to get cleared to go ahead, but in the meantime, but it happened with one, I guess there's a change going on thinking of how the military ran that facility. And so that was but then they take over the whole facility in running as I guess the paid or as a as the business as a consultant and running it. And so in the meantime, and there's another fellow from UCLA, waldinger, and he was strapped at the same time I was so then he ended up going to the safe place. But then he and I never were cleared to go in. We were then sent off to other places while he went here. And I don't know what he was doing there. But I ended up going down to Texas, and ended up Medical Corps. And so I became a med tech and alert the whole, that's the whole. And so spent two years in service then got up 50 by the GI bill or modify for the Korean one is still on. So my dad and mom. By this time the business has gone along and very well. And they were very heavy into the no drama, no singing. And they were going back to Japan for lessons. And so this is why we like to take a whole year off I spent studying under the Masters in Japan. So I said okay, I'll run the business for there for one year, they'll come back then I'll go back to school. So 19 Six, when they came back, I entered the doctoral program at UCLA 1661 I got my degree. And so it said it was kind of interesting, because now the second go around, I got funds to go. So that's sort of the sort of story of my life there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1381.0,1664.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you hear about Dr. Hirabayashi and his and his stand and when you were at our mountain,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1665.0,1670.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we did it but again, you know, sort of he's contested or he protested and he was arrested. That was basically the bottom of mine in my mind there. It was. Because Gordon had I remember I would always struggle to tell the people like I would have survived. We may understand what what the basis was so forth, I think finally sinking into the people. So what was really all about? But yeah, we knew of Gordon and then we heard of other cases. I can't think of the endo suey? No. I'm sorry. I don't have that off the tip of my target. But there are others that we had heard that we're bringing suit to the government. And in fact, I think what's your soulmates with Gordon? Oh, yeah, yeah. So when we were McNeal Gordon appears and and and they a guy named Jack toto had coerce the prison authorities to send out baseball mats and myths so far. So we had a little baseball league going out of the park. And so then, the Quakers group decided to appeal the baseball team. So Gordon was on there and they needed the people so they asked me because I was with the other group because of that, that really athletically inclined at that time. This is why we want to yarn team as well. Okay, so then we worked out and apparently they liked the way I pitch so I ended up being the pitcher. Yeah, so garden I, yeah, we played on the team. And so we were, say, baseball teammates. For the period we're there. And it was really funny because as Gordon was getting ready to leave as time was up. We knew that his wife I was very eminent in the Child, child and I think, and then when the news came out that he had twins a big roar when I congratulate him. So yeah, so I knew Gordon then and then after we had gotten out, I had become very close to many of the conscientious objectors that kept in touch with them. And also with with the resistors. And so through the CEOs, I kept very close touch with Gordon. And whenever Gordon came to Southern California, the other former seals alerted me that we tried to get together. Gordon, the schedule was such a It was amazing. So my garden supposed to be through years, and I don't know it's okay. So we need both Gordon. Now. He had he had to go. I think he's in Hawaii now. It is. I don't think his particular schedule was really here. I think he got pushed pulled back by various groups. Here. He's he's up as he's going up to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1671.0,1874.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the Flagstaff. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1875.0,1878.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So that's, that's a ways that we ran the bug we have kept each other over the years. That question, do you have any other okay, if you have questions that come up, give me a call or drop me a line. And my wife has email, but it's hers. I don't want to play with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1879.0,1904.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: your time. Oh, definitely appreciate. Yeah. Thanks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1905.0,1906.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay. Thank you. And good luck in your research. Thank you. And I would like to see some of the papers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1907.0,1915.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Because I'm gonna be writing a paper next semester. Yeah, I'd be happy to show","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1916.0,1919.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes. If you sent me a reprint shudder. Because I don't say much about it. But really, I've been in academia. My career so that's great, but I don't push that because the others are more we always use the kid so that was the city slicker. Go out there to try to use a shovel. I don't know how I did it. But I ripped my pants. You see the show? Was a bunch of the chokes. That's good. Well, anyways, good talking to people and thanks for Yeah, if you can't, that is part of that book that is trying to be published. So it's in the press? Not really. Well, book, should they send it to the publishers and accepted? Yeah. All right. Property. Do you know who's working on it? Is the is the author? Okay. And then we contributed chapters to it. Do you know where he always address where he's at? Oh, just. Yeah, he's in, in the Southern California area in a town called Lomita. Which, yeah, L O M I T A Lomita. California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=1920.0,2011.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And he's Is he a historian? Is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=2012.0,2012.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he at a university? Or? No, he sort of? Well, he was one of the people who had a big hand in the redress. Oh, I see. Okay, we don't hear too much about it. But then he's also the one I think that was people wanted to start to bring suit against the government. I don't have all the stories straight. There's somebody brought was bringing a suit against the government. And so in order to quelch that it affected the, the Korematsu if you're a bashing case for something that that was sort of, you know, bank rumor, and, and when the, when the Supreme Court decision came out on that, or Novus? I think, sort of Welsh, his his suit. I'm not quite sure. But anyway, he's fairly prominent. But he's strictly a writer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=2013.0,2085.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: First, when I was asking about universities, it's really easy to find people in universities nowadays. Email and things like Right yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=2086.0,2094.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, he doesn't have email, but if you want his address software, you simply send it to you Okay, feel free to send inquiry I always like to help students along and then I pushing my own agenda","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730#t=2095.0,2097.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72851/file/158730/transcript/40744/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/040/744/original/azu_ms390_08_side2_a.vtt?1670004892","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/040/744/original/azu_ms390_08_side2_a.vtt?1670004892"}]}]}]}