{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/804xg9h468/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["John Bobb Interviewed by Raquelle Conant"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona Veterans Project, MS 835"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona Veterans Project (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Bobb, John (Interviewee)","Conant, Raquelle (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2025-02-08 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona--Tucson (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eJohn retired the Army while in the Reserves. He fought in Vietnam, leading an Infantry platoon for 8 months. \u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":[".MP4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS835.039 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Branch of Service - Army","Highest Rank - 1LT","Period of Service - Vietnam War","Company - Echo","Division - 1IN"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eJohn retired the Army while in the Reserves. He fought in Vietnam, leading an Infantry platoon for 8 months.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/281/875/small/azu_ms835-039_a.mp4_1752164492.jpg?1752164495","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms835-039_a.mp4"]},"duration":3626.3262,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/281/875/small/azu_ms835-039_a.mp4_1752164492.jpg?1752164495","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/281/875/original/azu_ms835-039_a.mp4?1752164485","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3626.3262,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Good morning. Today's date is February 8, 2025 The interviewer is Raquel Conant. Can you start by saying your name unit and your most recent rank in the army? Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=0.0,14.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Name's John Bob, B, O, B, B, and active duty on the first lieutenant infantry and then later in the reserves, I was a gun honorable discharge as a captain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=15.0,27.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So you enlisted in 1966 right enlisted","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=28.0,30.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: 1966 for three year obligation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=31.0,35.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What led you to enlist?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=36.0,38.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: My father of the pow in World War Two, and I was in a small town working in a cherry factory, and I was the oldest of seven children. That was a good idea to get out of there. I wanted to be a police officer, so I was hoping I could get in the military and get some get some experience. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=39.0,60.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was your understanding of the vietna, Vietnam War at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=61.0,66.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Um, nothing, really. I went in when I was 18 years old, and I was 20 years old, when I was the first lieutenant, the 20 year old high school graduate lieutenant, when I went to Vietnam, February 68 just doing what my dad did, you know, no, that was it. How","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=67.0,83.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did you feel about joining during that time period?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=84.0,88.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, being an officer that you get, you get certain they put you in certain classrooms, and they gave you classified information that nobody else gets. So when I first got to Vietnam, the intelligence officer said that 80% of the South Vietnamese people didn't want us there. I wasn't real educated the time, but I was kind of like, you know, then they just sent me out to the unit. I did what I had to do, you know, fair enough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=89.0,118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was basic training like for you,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=119.0,122.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, for eight weeks. And I was a pretty good athlete, so physically, it didn't bother me at all. To be honest with you, of course, they they mess with you, and, you know, try to see if you'll break down a little bit physically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=123.0,140.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Did any experiences from basic training stand out to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=141.0,145.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, the only, the only thing was a little bit different. I evidently applied for Officer Candidate School, and you have to pass two written tests and get a certain score on them, and I passed both of them. And I remember being interviewed by some officers, and I had to pass the interview to get accepted, but then I had to go to advanced infantry training for another eight weeks at Fort, California. So I was just so busy going from one to the other, and then they put me in a military police unit in a prison, military prison, until my OCS class date came up. So I got that experience, and then I went down to port Benning for six months in OCS. Like I said, I was from a small town, very inexperienced. Didn't really have a lot of lot of idea what was going on. But physically, I was in really good shape. So no matter what they threw at me, I could just do it. You know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=146.0,202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what city were you from? What town were you from?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=203.0,205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, yeah, just a little peninsula sticks out in the middle of Lake Michigan, 40 miles from Green Bay, which is why my wife was a Green Bay Packer fan. Right now she's a Kansas City Chiefs fan. Oh, nice. She's excited for tomorrow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=206.0,225.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Exactly what led you to infantry?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=226.0,228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, that's an interesting story. When I was a sophomore in high school, they showed us different jobs you could be interested in. So I was going through this notebook, and I saw a picture of a Washington, DC police officer, and he just had this glint in his eye, you know, like he stood for something, and his annual salary was $4,000 a year. So I went to the military recruiter in Green Bay and said I wanted to be a criminal investigator in here. What he didn't tell me was I was not qualified to do that until I had several years in a certain rank. So he lied to me, and I signed, signed all the papers, and I got down to basic training, and they in the paper. He crossed out criminal investigator, wrote in intelligence analyst. I had no idea what an intelligence analyst was, so I just went through the infantry stuff and stayed with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=229.0,284.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what was your transition like from enlisted infantry to being an officer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=285.0,291.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was very difficult because I was, you know, a private. I didn't go to West Point or ROTC. I went into the private, went through all. Training of the private, and then six months later, after OCS, I'm a second lieutenant, and I'm 20 years old, so and I don't have an ego, I've never felt I needed to act important or be important. So it was kind of tough at first, you know, because I was walking around the private saluting officers, and all of a sudden I'd go into but on the street, and I'd have a bunch of guys going like this, you know. So that's what they call a straight leg infantry. I qualified for Airborne Ranger, but I didn't mentally like I said, I just didn't have the just didn't know the big picture to make the correct decision sometimes. So I was what they call a straight leg infantry. I didn't go to Airborne School or range of school or special forces.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=292.0,345.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So did you see a big shift in kind of like the people that you were with when you were enlisted, and then shifting from to an officer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=346.0,357.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, at the time, the draft was in full display because of Vietnam, so a lot of enlisted guys got drafted. Some guys like me that were the sons of World War Two veterans wanted to do it, you know, because their dads did it. So you had and then everybody would come together from all over the country with different backgrounds and different problem. So you had to take people and force them into a team, so they relied on each other and had a certain discipline, you know. And you worried about people's safety. They taught you safety all the time. I mean, this is unbelievable, how detailed they are compared to civilian life. So you put people from all over the country, draftees, list these, and you form them in a team. You try to keep people safe, plus, as the officer, you're also responsible to accomplish a mission and hope you don't get anybody hurt while you're doing it, which in combat doesn't happen. So yeah, it was difficult, difficult transition at a young age, you know, I wasn't fully mature, basically, mentally, but, but to this day, the guys in my platoon were still good friends, you know, you know, we're still like brothers. So I don't, I don't feel ashamed of anything. I never tried to hurt anybody, and never tried to get promoted on anybody else's back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=358.0,446.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So we're gonna transition to OCS and your commissioning. So you mentioned how your story of becoming an officer was somewhat unusual, yeah. Could you share a little bit more detail about that story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=447.0,465.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, the nice thing about it was, like I said, I was in good enough physical condition. I didn't care what they threw at me. And my dad being a POW, he drove all the way from Wisconsin down to Fort Bend Georgia to go to my graduation. Which, which I just really, really liked, you know, he went through a lot of trouble and effort to do that. So I was real proud of what I accomplished at that point. And then, then they immediately sent me to Fort Knox, Kentucky for two months of vehicle maintenance school. Then they sent me to Fort Lewis, Washington to run basic trainees through was an officer. So, so I actually went through 13 months of training before I went to Vietnam in combat, and enlisted guys would go through, you know, 16 weeks. So I just had a lot more training, thank God, and it paid off. And I had, I had some sergeants, you know, career sergeants tell me, before I went to Vietnam, they said, when you get over there, you know, you're a young lieutenant, listen to your career sergeants and do what they say until you get some experience, and then hopefully fewer people get hurt under your command. So I listen to those sergeants. I mean, right from day one, I listen to everything, and I said, it's a smart thing to do. So anyway, I cared about my men more than I cared about everybody else's stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=466.0,549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So you were a first or second lieutenant?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=550.0,552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, you start out as a second lieutenant, and after a year, you can get first lieutenant, right. And then when I when I got off active duty, I joined the Wisconsin National Guard for another five years as a first lieutenant. I went to all the riots, you know. So then I was also in the Individual Ready Reserve, where I got promoted to captain and got an animal discharge because I was in that so I actually, I was on a book for 20 years, but I had three years active, five years in the National Guard, and then all the other years in the Individual Ready Reserve, which they could still call me up, but I had to do classes and paperwork to get promoted to Major. You know, the federal law enforcement officer at the time working between 60 and 90 hours. The Week, and if you stayed in the military, they didn't like it because you weren't working seven days a week. So So, so I joined in 1966 and then 1986 I just got off the books. I just got my final discharge as a captain, and I was stationed in St Louis as a federal agent, and that's where the military records center is. So I used to have to go out there all the time and look at other guys for military records. I was real familiar with the process, because I did background investigations and things like that. So then I went out there and did other things. I'm not allowed to talk about looking for some certain people's records for certain reasons. Some of it's real interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=553.0,648.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you were, when you were a second lieutenant, were you in charge of, like, just a standard infantry platoon?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=649.0,654.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I just went through another two months of classes, and then I ran basic training. So we had a captain, executive officer, and a couple lieutenants, and we just got the guys that training every day and ran them and went through all all the physical demands, the classes, you know, all the things you do in basic training, firearms, self defense. So I wasn't a platoon commander until I got to Vietnam. My first assignment was a platoon leader in the company.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=655.0,686.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah. So how was that change going from training people in basic training and then being thrown as a platoon","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=687.0,692.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: leader? Well, when you get to Vietnam, they give you maybe a week's classes and some then you go out and you get assigned to a company. So you have a company commander, and you have three lieutenants, so you have three platoons, so they take you out on a helicopter, drop you off, and you go talk to the captain. And I wasn't there for five minutes, and we were already in battle, getting shot at and bordered so the captain's trying to tell, tell me what was going on. We ended up laying on the ground, bullets and rocket everything was flying through the trees right above us. Yeah, so I had West Point come to commanders, and I was just our, you know, OCS guy, so, so they had to train me and talk to me. And you know, and you have a lot of problems, because you have to read they send you out of patrol. You have to know how to read a map compass. You have to know what formations the guys are in, depending on whether in a valley or Hill, hills and ridge lines. And so they trained me very well, and there was just a whole lot of things to catch up on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=693.0,765.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you feel well prepared for that? Yeah, I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=766.0,769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Except, depending on where you're at in Vietnam, you're going to be down the rice paddies down south, or be up in the mountains. And we're up in the mountains in what they call the tri border region, where Laos and Cambodia came together. So we were up in the mountains all the time on patrol up there. So everywhere you were, it was just a little different experience, you know. But, and I had good sergeants, good covenant commanders, and if they thought I was making a mistake, you know, they told me about, you know, under no circumstance colony was going on. So, no, I had wonderful people around me, so I felt really good about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=770.0,805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: your captain. Was that your EXO? What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=806.0,809.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was that now, your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=810.0,810.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: cap, the captain that you were talking about when you first landed, Was he your EXO?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=811.0,814.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: You're no, he was a covenant commander. Oh, he was coming. Yeah. No, they EXO with the infantry companies. Wasn't out in the field. They were usually in the back, right because they had to do all the finances, the payment personnel records, if somebody got wounded or killed, and they had to see who was getting sick, you know, everywhere, almost one out of three guys, right with got malaria, wow. So the Exo was in the back, doing all the administrative stuff. And then we just had the captain, and then, like, three lieutenants. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=815.0,847.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: how was your relationship with your NCOs that were there with you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=848.0,851.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh, real, real, real good. I had top notch guys. I mean, couldn't have been any better, you know, they made fun of me. First, matter of fact, one of my best friends to this day, the full blooded Native American, lives in Oklahoma, Missouri border, and we go to reunions. And he told me, he says, he says, when you get off the helicopter, and we first saw it, he says, I said to the other guys, we're in trouble. Now, that kid looks like he's 14 years old, that one young looking at a baby face. So yeah, anytime they got a new lieutenant, you know, they, they did, they they sat back and all go. Here we go again, you know, so and then that first night, I was in a sleep, and I had some jungle ham Octa call, and we got mortared, and I'm laying in this thing. I got my eyes closed. I. And all of a sudden I see these flashes of lights and then explosions going off. And so one of my guys took the net off the jungle, him up, grabbed me and threw me in a bunker, you know, because I didn't know what was going on. So we were all in a bunker, you know, explosions going off. And so I said to one of my guys, I said, I'm cold. And he said, No, Lieutenant, you're not cold. You're scared. So that was my first night on the field. Oh, wow, yeah, one of those things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=852.0,932.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How would you say that your enlisted experience shapes your approach to being an officer? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=933.0,940.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it has its good things and bad things, but what I liked about it is because I was a private, you know, in basic training, advanced infantry training, military police, so I had an appreciation for everything these guys are going through. I didn't, I didn't feel like I was above them, or I was better than in any manner at all, because I knew what they're going through and that. But what you do when you're in the middle like that is you have to really care about them. And then the colonels and majors tell our captain what to do, and then our captain tells us what's what else we have to do. And we have to do it, you know. And you do it the best you can, because you don't ever want to get anybody hurt. So like I said, I don't have an ego. I cared about them. You still have to do what you have to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=941.0,991.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Could you see a like change between someone like you, who was enlisted before, and then someone that, like maybe graduated from West Point or ROTC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=992.0,1004.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was fortunate both West Point company commanders I had were really they were classmates, and they were really good. Matter of fact, I'm still friends with both of them and ROTC guys. I don't have any independent memory of any bad situations. But you know, it is in life, no matter where you go to, what you do, you disagree with certain people's behavior, conduct, whatever so, but I don't have anything specific to answer the question, you know, it just, you know, I didn't have any serious problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1005.0,1041.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You How did your leadership style develop early on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1042.0,1053.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I say because I don't have an ego. You know, if captain told me to do something, I'd go tell my sergeants what we had to do, and I would be as safe as I could. But every day, you went on like, like, say, you went on a patrol during the day, and you had to stay somewhere at night. So you develop them, develop a defensive measures, where you get into a formation where you have all sides covered, like, like, if you're going up a ridge line and you're in single file and ambush it, you've only got one guy up there to start shooting back. So then you get in a formation where you have three lines, and then, yeah, and then you get ambushed, and you've got nine guys that can start shooting back. So depending on the terrain and everything you had to learn how to get into formation so you could defend yourself. And the enemy had what they call Hill trap maneuvers and all kinds of maneuvers. So if you had two ridge lines coming off a mountain, you didn't walk up between the ridge lines, because they had what they call U shaped ambushes, where they could trap you and shoot you, so you made sure you went up the ridge line, not between the ridge line. So this is stuff you learn from the sergeants and the captains and stuff. And you get to see you had to make sure you did not we're not in a position where you got ambushed and then you lose the battle. So the terrain is very important, the knowledge of it. And then every time we stopped. And we had had a night, night where we stopped and in a defensive perimeter, you pre plotted all your artillery fire we had. We had what they called fo with sport observers. And they would, they would contact the mortar people, the 105 houses, the 155 houses, eight inch houses, whatever we had, and they would pre plot fire around our perimeter. So if we got ambushed at night, the folk could just get on the line with him and the captain and just start firing, because he didn't have to start from scratch. And the same thing is they had what they call Puff the Magic Dragon. They had these airplanes with machine guns on them. And sometimes we're in such a bad shape that they'd have to call one of those in, and they would have to fire around their perimeter all night, and they would, I think, in just a few seconds, they could put one bullet in every square inch of a football field. Magic Dragon. They had another name for him, but they had these big, great, big machine guns.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1054.0,1206.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So we the captain, sometimes would have to put a light in the middle of a perimeter head and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1207.0,1214.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: shoot around it. So anyway, whenever you stopped with your guys at night, you always pre plotted all your mortars, your artillery, air support, and you get up the next morning, you move somewhere else. Did the same thing again, and that's just how that's how you did it. You know, whatever assets you had to protect your men, you plot your plan and you utilize it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1215.0,1236.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: And when you would pre plot all of your points and like, call in for your Ford observing your that was your field artillery unit that was like, with you guys that would do all that. Yeah, we,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1237.0,1248.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we had a Ford observer who, who were lieutenants the artillery ones, and then we had ones for mortars. And I remember, when I was fairly new, we were on top of the hill, and I wanted to learn as much as I could, so I stood next to the four observers see how he pre plotted things. So he called in our coordinates on the map to the 105 officer guys, and said where we were. And then they they have a big circle thing where they Trent it. So they're looking at things the same way you are in a field. So they said to him, they said, Well, according to our calculations, you're standing in the middle of a river, and we were on this high mountain. So his response was, if I'm in the middle of a river, why are my feet wet? That ended that argument, where we were, yeah, he was quite a guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1249.0,1304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So what was your you see, just to clarify, before you went to Vietnam, you were doing base, you were helping with basic training, yeah, okay, what was your initial reaction when you found out you were being sent to Vietnam?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1305.0,1318.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I skipped that part of the story. When I was in the military police, I caught pneumonia and I was supposed to go to artillery OCS in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, so I had to go see a corporal that was in charge of all the paperwork and stuff. So he said, Well, he said that you missed your artillery. OCS Class Day. So I got you an infantry OCS class state Fort Benning. And I said, Well, I says, that's going to put me past my three year enlistment. I said, Maybe I don't know if I want to go to OCS anymore. He says, Well, I went to a lot of trouble getting infantry OCS Class Day. So he said, he said, I'm not happy. So he says, I can cut orders and you can go to Vietnam in two weeks as an infantry private, or you can go to infantry LCS. And I said, I would love to go to infantry OCS. He says, Okay, that's how that happened. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1319.0,1377.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: so it was, it was a choice you were given then, yeah. Um, so going back to earlier, I was just curious about this. You were mentioning how there was certain ways that you would go about getting up a hill and not going through, like the valley and stuff. Was that decisions that you made, or is that like, did you ever plan any of the tactical stuff?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1378.0,1402.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, the captains were experienced. They were both on their second tour. And like I said, the enemy would would take U shaped positions in case you went up between two rib line, another, another famous one they did. And it was, it was brought up in 1967 docto. Problem that they had is that the enemy's positions on top of the hill, and I think it might have been the one, oh, first airborne, they were going up the ridge line to attack the position. But then what the enemy would do is they would attack you real hard from the front, to pin you down, and then they send a unit behind you, so you can't get helicopters in, you can't get reinforcements in, and then they attack you from behind. It's called the hill trap maneuver. So our captains are both really, really good about that. And we got in a situation in June 68 in a place called BC Valley, where they were going to do that to us. They we're taking a rest on a little hilltop. And we thought we heard some enemy up there, and the battalion told us to leave and go down this ridge line. And we so I talked to the captain, and he knew what's going on, and we said, it's not a good idea to leave this hilltop right now, but with the force system. So as we started going down, they shot at us from the front and pinned us down. And the captain looked at me, I looked at him, and I immediately took a squad of guide and I put him on line. Started rushing back up towards the hill, and at that time, the NBA were all coming over the top of the hill to get us from because we were all normally just focus on the front where shots come from, and then they come behind you, and they just kill all of you. But we knew what was going to happen, so we got got six guys wounded and two killed. But we saved the company, you know, because our guys came up and caught him coming down the hill and wiped most of them out. And then they had a machine gun on the ridge line next to us. They were shooting at us from the side, killed, killed two of them, and then inside, and then myself and my platoon sergeant. They thought we were gone after that, and so their machine gunner and assistant came down the ridge line, and my sergeant and I took care of that situation, and then we went back up in the hill. And then the next morning, we got our wounded guys out and got the dead bodies out. But that hill trap maneuver, you had to know, you had to know. You hadn't know what you're doing. You couldn't be on top of the hill, and there's walk off and not have any security on your flanks or in the rear when you do it, because they're going to come and get you. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1403.0,1573.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: whenever you were like attacked like that, were you just as your platoon, or was it your whole company?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1574.0,1580.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: A lot of a lot of times, it just varied on what the enemy strengths were and what you're trying to accomplish. But like saying, when you establish a nighttime perimeter, the first thing you do is you send out defensive patrols. You make everybody dig in in case you get mortared. So everybody's got a foxhole or a bunker, and then in front of each platoon, you send a fire team and maybe a sergeant, three guys and a patrol around the in front of it to make sure the enemy's not already there, setting you up so it's so that's how you do things. You're just on alert all the time. So like one time during the day by doc told one of my team leaders was going out to do exactly that. And they got, they got hit by the enemy, and one of them got killed. And then you start calling artillery all over, you know, you go out and you get them, and you start calling in artillery and air strikes, helicopter, gun ships. You know, that was one thing of being a 20 year old lieutenant, I could, I could spend, you know, a couple $100,000 and a half hour when I was a federal agent, you know, I couldn't spend a penny without going to jail, without doing a bunch of paperwork, you know, kind of a sad situation. But the one thing you have to learn, you have to see just a little bit of humor and stuff, you know, just to keep the things going, you know, you know, it's sad, but you gotta have a little battleground humor. Once","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1581.0,1670.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: were your captain usually there with you the whole time when you were there in Vietnam?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1671.0,1675.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I was a lieutenant in Vietnam, yeah, every I was six months as a platoon leader, and we had a captain in charge of us, and then I got a job as executive officer in a combat support company, and that had to recon platoon, all 81 millimeter mortar guys, four, 4.2 mortar guys and a couple other little units. So I was in charge of paying them every month. So I had to go into the base camp, get all the money and documents, and then I had to go out and find out, because they were all attached to units all over the place. I had to find helicopters, trucks, jeeps, wherever I could get and go out and pay him. And sometimes I'd be with the recon platoon, because they were doing a lot of secret danger stuff, and I'd get stuck paying them, but then I couldn't get out because no choppers could come in at the time. So I was running all the time. You know, I did that for seven months. So when my one year was up, I enlisted to stay there another month. So I stayed here longer than I had to try to get another combat assignment, and willing to stay as long as I had to. But things are flowing down, so they just don't only just go home, but the limit was he couldn't stay there anymore in four years. A lot of guys did. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1676.0,1755.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you finished your time in Vietnam as the EXO, yep. Okay. Did you prefer that or what you're doing as a lieutenant?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1756.0,1763.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No, I like that. I like the peculiar stuff, because being, being the XO, the Combat Support Company, you get stuck with all kinds of weird details, like somebody in a base camp, you get in a traffic accident with a Jeep or a truck, and you have to go back and investigate it, and, you know, and pay everybody. And then I had to do a lot of paperwork. If somebody got killed or injured a couple times, you know, I have to go identify bodies, you know, just kind of a all encompassing administrative job, you know, they just had to run all over the place. Mm. I'd rather be a platoon leader beyond the beautiful mountains. No paperwork.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1764.0,1807.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were there any moments or specific missions that had an impact on him? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1808.0,1811.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, yeah. My my dad World War Two. It was in Manhattan, France, and Germans came, and only eight people in my dad's unit were not killed or captured. And my dad was a medic, and he got, he refused to leave his wounded comrades, so he got captured. And then we got in a couple of real bad battles over, I mean, like, like, really bad, you know, we've got, we had three companies in our battalion were pinned down on one side of a big hole, so we had to go up another ridge line to try and take the heat off and so they could evacuate their dead and their wounded. And filled for three or three days, we're there three days with, I think we started out 110 guideline after three days with only 17 of us left on the hill when I killed her wounded, and even our company commander was wounded. So, yeah, it wasn't fun, you know. And then the BC Valley thing, there were a lot of other times, you know, I got rocketed and mortared and almost killed, you know, several times. But that one battle, we're really, really bad, but we saved the other three companies. But overall, our battalion probably took 35 killed, maybe 240 wounded. But there's a movie about the one, oh, first airborne they got in a battle like north of us. Can't remember the name of the movie, but I think they lost 56 killed them. But yeah, we, we just hit a major enemy position. And, matter of fact, I copied the article for you can take it home with him. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, they were, I mean, it was bad. They had snipers in the trees, and it was, it was so bad. I remember enemy hand grenades rolling down the hill toward me, and I had to put my hands in my steel pot and put my face in the ground. Grenades are going off just right in front of me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1812.0,1938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You know, whenever you had really bad missions like that, what did you do as the platoon leader to, like, keep morale","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1939.0,1946.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: up? Well, every battalion had a chaplain, you know, maybe a captain or a major, major, whatever. So they tried to get us to the rear. They brought the chaplain out. We very rarely got any hot food. So they would go out of their way to try to bring some hot food, have a chaplain, have a little memorial ceremony, depending where we're at, you know. And then they, you know, bring in fresh recruits and start all over, you know. You know, just trying to deal with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1947.0,1982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So how did your time in combat shape you as a leader?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1983.0,1987.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, you know, when people are young, you know sometimes you're not real bright. But anyway, now that I'm old and I got a little bit of wisdom, what I tell people is, I came back and I got both my arms, both my legs. A lot of guys got killed and injured. So some of them are just such good people. So what I tell young people is, you know, this guy didn't get to come home, so you want to run your life like he would run his life. You don't want to you don't want to be in an alley with a heroin it'll stick in your arm and drunk seven days a week. You want to get up every day, be positive, do the right thing, set an example, and just keep going. You know, because you never lose. You never lose your ability to function normally work hard at it every day, like even yesterday, one of my guys, Hispanic guy from South Texas, was in my platoon. He and I were texting for a couple hours yesterday, you know, the sons in the hospital and got problems and I mean, we just rely on each other, because you get up and you be positive and be a good citizen instead of taking a negative way out. Because if you have the military bearing military discipline, you should keep that with you at all times, you know. And of course, I'm not perfect. Other people aren't perfect, but every day I get up the first thing, and they're every my wife's the same way. Every day we get up, we try to do one positive thing for somebody else. We don't have to do, you know, because I'm here and I didn't get killed, so I don't have any right to crap on the memory of these guys that got killed. That's awesome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=1988.0,2092.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What was your experience like coming home from Vietnam? I. How was that transition back into","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2093.0,2100.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, like I said, I was the oldest of seven kids. My mom and dad were divorced. My dad got remarried, and I had three younger sisters at home. So, you know, I first got back, you know, I just stayed in my dad's house and and then one day, a Jeep pulled up in front of the house, and a couple officers got out and said, Where was the Wisconsin National Guard sign up? I said, well short of beer money. So I said, Okay, you know Wisconsin big beer stadium, and I got into private security, private investigations. I don't know if you're kind of young. I don't know if you remember Art Linkletter, that he was a famous television personality. His daughter died of an LSD flashback. So he was going to Appleton, Wisconsin to help them with a drug prevention program. And I was working security and private investigations at times. So they told him he was going to be his bodyguard. So he went around their schools and talk to people he was real famous for. He get get little kids in seats, and then as like, kids say the darndest things. I think I do know who you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. And then there's another guy that picked that show up later on, but so I as a bodyguard for him and his wife for a few days in Appleton, Wisconsin, as a big anti drug activist then, and I'm even worse now, and better now, yeah, so then I started going to college, you know, working my wife and I got married, so had the National Guard, you know, they paid me a lot of money. VA paid me to go to school and just worked a lot of jobs until I got into law enforcement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2101.0,2205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So the security was after National Guard, but at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2206.0,2209.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: same time and I worked as an undercover private investigator in a lot of companies in Wisconsin, some of them had government contracts, and they were worried about certain things that were going on. Maybe people, you know, because of the time, maybe somebody was not doing their job on purpose, you know, like making machine gun links for machine gun ammo in one place I worked. So I'd worked undercover, you know, and did that, went to University of Wisconsin Green Bay for one semester, and couldn't stand their professors because they were a bunch of communists. So I quit, and then I went to Fox Valley Technical Institute in Appleton, Wisconsin. They had a two year law enforcement technical program, and guys that ran it were former World War two FBI agents, top notch guys, happiest two years of my life. These guys are just unbelievable. So after five years ago, the National Guard, while right after, I joined Wisconsin National Guard, then we got called up for the riots at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. And back in those days, they didn't call a national guard up like they do now, so a lot of those guys were just joined it, because that way they wouldn't get drafted. And then, of course, at the University of Wisconsin, I had a bunch of stuff going on, so then I ended up down in the riot for coming home from Vietnam. So I was in charge of securing the ROTC building, which already didn't have any Windows left in it, and the officers that were assigned there were filling out paperwork to go back to Vietnam. Then I went to Missouri, finished up my bachelor's degree down in Missouri, worked on the university security department. What's your degree? I had associates degree in law enforcement technology. Then I had a bachelor's degree in law enforcement corrections with a minor in law enforcement photography. And then after I was hired as a federal agent, after about 10 years, I went to another college in Missouri, and 1010, week law enforcement. Can't remember exactly, but it was for law enforcement commanders, so I went to that and it was a master's level class on crime statistics and a bunch of other stuff. So I've got like, 170 college credits. I know I don't sound like that's great, that's awesome. Yeah, I am. I am at the age sometimes I start to say something and I skip a word. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2210.0,2384.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Really encourage you scoreless.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2385.0,2391.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Oh yeah, I didn't get into that, but when I was an officer candidate school, our EXO was a guy the name of Rick riddle I copied. Some documents for you on him. There's a book out called We Were Soldiers once and young about the first air cab, and then they made it into a movie called We Were Soldiers. But on the cover of the book, Rick was scoreless on and he was a lieutenant air cab at the time, and then he was my XO in OCS, and he was, he was tough dude. He's from England. I mean, he's, like, really tough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2392.0,2426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: We had to read, we actually read that book in class. Okay, yeah, that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2427.0,2430.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: awesome, yeah. So some of the modern books that have come out, it doesn't have his picture on it. That's got the actors picture on it instead. But now he died. Yeah, he he went and got a law degree, and he was in charge of security for Morgan Stanley on 911 and they told him not to evacuate his company. And he said, I'm going to do it anyway. So he evacuated, I don't 2700 people or whatever, but he, he wouldn't leave the building in case he left one person by because of the military training. So he went back up the tower, and that's when the tower collapsed down and killed him. But he, yeah, he this guy was so tough, and he just unbelievable. That's where I get some of my stubbornness, of me the one that trained me in officer school, so that's amazing. Yeah, so he had cancer. He was so tough, he would run and bare feet every morning before we go to work on the sidewalk. His nickname is hardcore. I'm down talking. He was with the police in England, and then he worked with the CIA in Africa. And then a CIA buddy his, who also wrote a book, they wanted to come to the US, we can work fight the communist and Vietnam. They came to this country. He became an officer. And it's quite a guy. Sounds like, look him up in the internet or YouTube. He was something else. So when I look at guys like that, you know, I'm just not gonna lay down and quit. Feel sorry for myself. You said","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2431.0,2533.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he was your XO,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2534.0,2536.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: XO and OCS. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, he's, he went to Oklahoma to go to college, and he would write, he would write letters back to our company, because he was our EXO for like, four months. Then the last two months he was gone, and he needed money, so he wanted to get a job at a psychiatric prison or something outside of the college. And so they were interviewing him, and they said, Well, why should we hire you? We got guys with black belts and karate and judo and judo and everything trying to get this job. You were in the military, but I don't see where you have that training. And he said, he said, Take me and all those other guys and throw us in a hole in the ground and see which one of us comes up. They said, Okay, you're hired. Yes, there you go. Then he went to New York. He was a lieutenant colonel in reserve, and he went to get to another unit. So they sat down to interview him, and he says, Why am I here? And they said, well, we need to interview you for this military job he applied for. He said, You're not qualified to interview me about anything, and you got out and retired. Yeah, he's he was quite a character. Sounds like it? Yeah, they didn't come any better than this guy","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2537.0,2618.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: you mentioned, responding to the riots, yeah, what was that experience like for you? What was your role?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2619.0,2630.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: They sometimes they just, I had a Jeep, and they'd put a Madison police officer in the Jeep, you know, and we'd stand by in case something happened another time, like I was in charge of ROTC building, so I'd line all my guys up by the sidewalk, and students would come by and started yelling and screaming a bunch of stuff. So you just stand there. But it was after that real bad incident in Ohio where the National Guard shot some people and killed him, so and I was the only combat veteran in the National Guard at the time in that unit anyway, so my guys were carrying m1 rifles with bayonets. So because of the shooting in Ohio, they told me I had to carry their ammunition. They weren't allowed to have it on them. And then I had a load at 45 so, so the people making decisions have never been in combat like I was. So when, when things start happening, real bad. I haven't got time to take a magazine ammo, walk over, hand it to guys. It's kind of too late. So anyway, we did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2631.0,2697.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and you were at that point. You were a captain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2698.0,2700.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No Lieutenant. I didn't get rolling a captain till later on, an individual ready Preserve. Gotcha. It wasn't much fun being the bad guys would. They would take trash cans and they'd find rocks and bricks, and they'd go up in a student buildings on the roof, and then they go down in the lower bathroom, they start a fire in a trash can. Then when the fire department would show up, they'd take all these rocks and bricks and throw it on the top and fireman's heads in the way. Most of them weren't students. They were just agitators, idiots. And then a medic that was in my platoon in Vietnam as a Madison police officer at the time, working undercover to ride. So I didn't know then, a high school friend of mine was going to law school there, and he was an FBI informant at the time, which I didn't know that either. But anyway, there's a book they published called Rat R, A, D, S, and it's got all this information, and somebody bombed one of the buildings, which is what made the rise real famous. But I can't remember that before or after I was there, you know. And then the other thing is my National Guard unit still had world war two weapons. They had M ones, bar automatics, so and then, when I first won the Military active duty, we had M 14 and M 16. So I had to train an entire battalion of guys to get rid of all world war two weapons and train them on M 16. So I personally trained the whole battalion of guys on M 16, and then we go to the range. And then I taught some of them how to call them mortar fire. So we'd go to go to the National Guard base and have them call them mortar fire and stuff. So I trained them on all that good stuff. That's awesome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2701.0,2817.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What kind of this was a question for me, because I'm curious, what kind of jurisdiction did you have during those riots, when those people would be throwing stuff at you and stuff like that? What were you the police took care","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2818.0,2829.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: of it. They had a sheriff's department called Dane County, and they all, they all drove old vehicle. So what it was so bad, they would roll our windows down in their vehicle and put up chicken wire. Oh, wow. And so the windows wouldn't get broken. And then they the police got a band, and they dressed it all up like a hippie band, painted all kinds of stuff on the outside. Then they put a squad of guys on they go down the road, and then they'd see some agitator doing something. They'd all jump out and rest them all, you know. So I didn't have any, I didn't have any real experience with it. Other they told me to put a police officer in my jeep through standby. I didn't. They told me to line my guys up in front of the building so nobody damaged the building anymore. I did, you know, just running after being in Vietnam, and I wasn't real worried or excited about it. Something I had to do, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2830.0,2890.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What other is you were in the National Guard for five years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2891.0,2893.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah? Well, you asked me what her jurisdiction was, right? The jurisdiction basically was you always had a police officer with you, so we didn't have to do anything other than back them up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2894.0,2909.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What other duties did you perform during your five years in the National Guard?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2910.0,2914.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I was actual headquarters company, so I had to do all paperwork, the training, and every two weeks, we'd go to a military base two weeks every summer. And we spent a lot of time in the ranges, you know, using our weapons that you know, that you couldn't use any other time. And then so then I taught everybody how to use m7, and nine grenade launchers that we had in Vietnam. And you could actually use them as a small mortar if you knew how put your foot on down and hold it up. And so anyway, I learned, I taught everybody how to do n 79 grenade launcher training. And then active duty Colonel showed up to because they would always show up to make sure you're doing things okay. And he he had a sergeant with him, a real old sergeant. So he asked, he said something to me about, he says, How's your communication to your radio? I said, not too good here. He said, Well, hook a wire to your radio antenna, he said, and put it in a TR double E. This is in front of the colonel. Okay, sorry, what's a TR double E? This is a tree. Got the double Lieutenant on that one. So yeah, I would just then every weekend you had to go to the armory and train and have classes. And, you know, do what you had to do. And, like I say, a lot of the guys were avoiding the draft, and they weren't. They weren't real pleasant, you know, to deal with. I just kind of kept them under control and did what I had to do. Didn't get too nasty. And then there was a police officer suburb of Green Bay. He joined the National Guard. He'd work all night on the police department, and he'd come to the come in there. He'd come in to me, excuse me, say I'm tired. And he said, What can I call you and what's your first name? I said, you're going to call me Lieutenant like everybody else does. So I made sure I didn't drive through his town anymore. But you had, you had to keep discipline. You know, he didn't want to be a jerk, but you had to have discipline. Well, sometimes I'm a jerk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=2915.0,3056.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you ever expect to be called back to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3057.0,3058.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: duty? Well, that's why I stayed in the individual ready to reserve volunteers. And I was, I was taking military physicals, you know, doing some well. As a matter of fact, when I was in the National Guard, I went back down to Fort Benning for six weeks for advanced officer School, which was part of the things you had to do to get promoted to Major so, so I was always active. And when I was a federal agent, our federal buildings right next to the St Louis City Police, and right behind that was a medical facility through the military, so I would have to go back there and do physicals. So yeah, I stayed on the books till 1986 and willing to get called up anytime. So I was under books for 20 years. It's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3059.0,3109.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: awesome looking back on your service. What are you most proud of?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3110.0,3116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I'm proud of the fact that I did it instead of running to Canada. But you know, when you're the children of World War Two veterans, you know it's your turn in the bucket, and back in those days, you know the reason the guys and I tell you, the women in World War Two were just amazing. I mean, they they had their kids going to school. They worked on farms. They worked in factories, building airplanes. The women were just unbelievable. And the guys would go off to war, and the women would get in the military units. And the reason they did it was they did that so your offspring would not ever have to do that. So then when you come to me being the son of a world war two that, you know, I go do it so my children don't have to do it. But the problem is, there's always going to be some nuts somewhere causing trouble. So you have to have a strong military, you know, you wish you could spend money doing something constructive. That's the reason, in the old days, that's why I did it. I don't want anybody else in my family to do it. Then you get done with it, and you proud of yourself, and all sudden, some other nut comes up down, and you have to go do it again, like there's no end to it. It's like the situation we're in now, you know, just don't go around killing people. It's real easy. Yeah, you know, that's what I tell people from my law enforcement experience, easiest thing to do, get up every day, don't hurt anybody. I don't know why that's so tough, but a lot of people don't get it. Yeah, I hear you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3117.0,3215.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What advice would you give to young service members today?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3216.0,3220.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Um, I actually got in this conversation with a career Sergeant down at Fort Benning in 1972 maybe he was down there working on making this an all voluntary, all voluntary middle, excuse me, all volunteer military service versus a draft. And I got in a conversation with him, and I said, I think doing away with the draft is a mistake, because at some point society is going to start being anti military or fewer people going in, and it's going to weaken us through the country. And He came up with a lot of good reasons why the volunteer army was good. We had a real nice conversation. So what I found out is I was wrong in that I had no idea that technology was going to advance like it did. I mean, so fast that you you have to have a volunteer service with people with this technical knowledge that want to want to stay in and utilize it versus my, my thought process was, we need a whole bunch of people trained on rifles. Yeah, you know, but nowadays you got the drones and you got the satellites and so but, but I also see that society, I think, is not as strong as you. To be overall, I think I was part right, you know? And he was a lot, right? Because my attitude is on a draft, and you got some 22 year old guy sitting in an alley of a hero, needle in his arm, and you're the police, you walk up to him and say, Where's your draft card? And go, I didn't register him a draft, okay, buddy, you're going near his military base, and you're actually saving people's lives. But the politicians after Vietnam, they didn't think was popular, so they didn't have the guts to keep the draft. Wasn't perfect, and needed to be changed, but to some extent they should have kept it, and they didn't, and now here we are. You have more people dying in drug overdoses every year than we lost in Vietnam and Korea in 20 years, you know. And there's no excuse for it. There's no excuse for it. But I'm not running for re election, so I can say what I want. Yes, very true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3221.0,3360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So what advice would you give to Oh, I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3361.0,3362.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: sorry. Well, I guess what I was getting out with with a draft was when you turned 18, you registered the draft, and they started drafting people. You had to, you had to prove you're going to college, working on some government project that they needed, maybe working on a farm, working on something where the military needed you, or you had some bad physical deformity or something, so you weren't going down a negative path. If you didn't want to go in the military, you had to be in some positive path in life. So you know what I would tell young people, you know, if you want to join the military, it's a good thing. You should be proud of it. It's never a negative thing. No matter what some politician or bureaucrat says, you should always be proud of yourself. If you join the military and be proud of your service and what the civilian government is doing, they run you, but you don't ever have to feel negative about anything they say or do you do your job and if they mess up, that's on them. But I just, I'm just proud of anybody that doesn't I really am. It's just, I think it's a good thing to do. It's like my granddaughter, I told you, she's an Air Force ROTC. She's a sophomore in high school. She's in Tucson wrestling. She won her first match today. Oh, awesome. That's great. She's actually ranked number one. Wow, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3363.0,3452.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's awesome. Is she doing ROTC in college? Doing what ROTC in college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3453.0,3458.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: No High School. Is she gonna join, like, what she goes college? I think so that's your point. Looks like it, you know, that's great, yeah, yeah. I've got a lot of good friends that are attorneys. I've been retired out of federal law enforcement for 25 years. I'm still good friends with the prosecutors. I work with the US Attorney. Even good friends, not good friends. I respected the defense attorneys too, the one that did a job in honorable Mannering also, even if they tore me up in a women's standard, doing her job. That's cool. That's good. I'm proud of you. Thank you. It's really good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3459.0,3496.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: for anything else about your service that you'd like to share? Yeah, anything that you maybe have, like, never really told anyone that you'd like to just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3497.0,3510.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: a good question, not that I know we when the internet's popped up. Well, yeah, here, here's, here's another important thing. Back in those days, if a unit went over to Vietnam, then they would bring guys individually in to replace guys. So nowadays, if a unit goes overseas, they come back into the unit. That way, they've got all their help and their families. And in those days, it wasn't like that, you know, you just go over there as an individual, come back, and that's why there was a lot of problems. But when the internet started, we were all able to kind of get together again and start having reunions and getting together with guys. So the reunions really help guys psychologically. They really do so but, yeah, I can't really think of anything, nothing I'm ashamed of. I can think that's good. Yeah, never told anybody else I uh, some of the violence stuff, I kind of keep to myself, fair enough, but I tell you where I'm lucky. I got into law enforcement. So a lot of guys would come back. They didn't know what they wanted to do when they had a lot of problems and stuff. But I got into law enforcement so. Had to behave myself, you know, whether I wanted to or not. You know, so and because of my law enforcement training, whatever, whatever PTSD problems I may have had otherwise, kind of, kind of just dissolved. You know, that's great. That's great. And I I've had problems in law enforcement, but I went through a chaplain, police Chaplain training after I lost one of my agents that worked for me, he he.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875#t=3511.0,3513.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2980/collection_resources/153166/file/281875/transcript/81676/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/081/676/original/azu_ms835-039_a.vtt?1752610513","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/081/676/original/azu_ms835-039_a.vtt?1752610513"}]}]}]}