{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/7940r9n04r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Gordon Hirabayashi Interview"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["8/26/2001"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["spatial; Arizona--Tucson"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Lyon, Cherstin M. (interviewer)","Branton, Nicole (interviewer)","Hirabayashi, Gordon K. (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Gordon Hirabayashi conducted August, 2001 in Tucson, Arizona. Interviewers: Cherstin M. Lyon and Nicole Branton, University of Arizona."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS390.05"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Part 3 of 3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["The Tucsonians Oral History Project Collection, MS 390"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["There are no restrictions."]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Gordon Hirabayashi conducted August, 2001 in Tucson, Arizona. Interviewers: Cherstin M. Lyon and Nicole Branton, University of Arizona."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["There are no restrictions."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 6 - azu_ms390_03_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1893.04163,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/720/original/azu_ms390_03_side1_a.mp3?1650394290","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1893.04163,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_03_side1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, yeah, played around with it. Just as this is an interview on the watch anime or constitutional cases or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=3.0,12.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what we're interested in since we interviewed you a couple of years ago, we want to follow up on that and get some more details about some questions we have lingering from a couple of years ago and some some things we've read since then. Well, that basically about what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=13.0,29.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm just going to answer. Yeah, it's funny, maybe repetitious, because I don't know what I said. That's fine. Yeah. At that time. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=30.0,37.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Basically, what you did last time is you told us your story about what led you to resist, initially, about your trip down to Tucson a little bit about your stay in Tucson. And that was that was basically, what I wanted to start out with is just a couple of formalities for the tape, as well. And if you could state your full name, your place and date of birth, and your current city of residence, just for the purposes of the tape.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=38.0,73.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: My name is Gordon Hirabayashi. Both both. I was born April 2319 18. In Seattle, and I'm currently living in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=74.0,101.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And then also for the purposes of this, the tape, I need to ask you if you understand that the tape will be transcribed. And the purposes of this transcription are to include this interview as a part of an entire collection of interviews of those who were imprisoned at the Kellyanne federal honor prison, funded by the California Civil Liberties Public Education Program. Is it okay, if we record your tape and deposit it in archive for the purposes of future publication or research or educational purposes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=102.0,136.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I have no objections to interview for that purpose, nor use our others who are searching for information relative to that sort of thing. All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=137.0,151.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The formal party? Okay, so some questions I had. And like I said, I have done a little bit of research since I talked to you last. And I have some questions that stemmed from our talk a couple of years ago, and also some interviews that I've read that you've done with other people. One thing that I had read was that when you were a student at the University of Washington, you went to the Columbia University Student Leadership course, when you were younger session. Yeah. And that when you came back, all five of you who had gone to that leadership session registered as conscientious objectors. And I was curious if you could tell me a little bit more about what that leadership camp was all about, and what it was about that that made you all come back? Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=152.0,205.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was wondering if I could close looking at shadow here. writes that well, yeah, we're just seeing sit over here. Because I'm looking right at that, son. Yeah. I left. We were five, University of Washington students. And we were involved in two activities. I was I think that was only one of those five that was involved in the leadership training course to which I had a scholarship for that summer. And this was a leadership training course. advertised and called the president school leadership, presidents and vice presidents and senior officials of the Christian movement. Why am and White who was generally close to the Christian movement? Student way and student why why? I'm pointing this out because it's quite different from the regular downtown who I am and white W businessmans clubs and that sort of thing, you know that in our views, student Why w is much more liberal and enlightened, all that sort of thing. Whereas downtown was dependent on funding output, they did what they said, got involved in. Now, that was one part of the program. The other part was a social work program with neighborhood. children's children and youth activities in the city of New York. And, and different kinds of social organizations that were involved in helping the disadvantaged and so on. And, and three of the people I know, were involved in that kind of activity and got accepted as part of participants in the summer program. And so they were there and the program overlapped conveniently for us that we live together, and we, we made arrangements to come back together for the main part of the travel expenses. And so that part of the program was participated by university students, volunteer activities, what it was, that was Neighborhood Development Program. And mine was a leadership training program. And well, some of the activities were similar. Our focuses on, you know, training, student officers, for various kinds of responsibilities are free periods overlap in we joined together on a lot of those. This was 1940, after a whole decade of depression, and lots of exciting adventures in terms of the government, Roosevelt had instituted, what what people regard today is kind of social revolution, all kinds of new kinds of experimental programs to help the deprived. And looking at it. From today's eyes, the programs that existed, the the doors that were shut to minorities, color minorities and other kinds of minorities, females and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=206.0,477.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Were very strongly undemocratic. And the social revolution that Roosevelt was taking advantage of, was to break the ice on some of those things. And so a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=478.0,498.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: lot of exciting programs with government money took place on programs that in calmer days, people might have said, Gee, that's too radical or something, you know, we had more latitude on experimental things like that. So that that's, that's what was exciting to these students getting involved in, you know, icebreaking programs in terms of opportunities for these deprived kids, family, from the bride, the families and so on. And mine, we didn't get involved in that kind of activities, except in our free period, we, we had a committee, self appointed committee, what are we doing our preparedness, we just lined up adventures that didn't cost much to go. We use the subway, which was five cents, a ticket each time to go anywhere, you just drop a nickel. So it was cheap. And then we went to places that had free admission, or very low admissions for museums and things of that nature. So we had a very good itinerary of interesting activities from people in the south, Southern universities, and we were The two of us who are from the University of Washington, along with the white W, person from the University of Washington, and throughout Western Washington, we were the only ones west of Mississippi. At that time participating, then there were some North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama. Universities, with students, and then the rest of the East Coast and New England. So, there were 25 in our group, roughly the same number of people involved in the social work programs that the rest of this made. So I don't know if that gives you any idea,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=499.0,650.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a really good idea, it actually explains some of your leadership training for some of the future actions each of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=651.0,657.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: two. And then it was a real exciting time. For not only for us, but at the time, nationally, we came through a whole decade of depression, really the worst depression, where we're having all phases of social structure, where the practice, you know, and and we were on the eve of what World War had already started, the United States didn't join it till like two years into it. So I think the war started in 39 or something and and then we were there the summer 1940. And World's Fair in New York City was on it the same same time. And for us from the west. Anything, even if it were old, would have been exciting to look at, in a way of demonstrations of your programs. But this was some some new stuff coming out. And then presidential election was going on campaigning, both in terms of movements, movements to get into certain kinds of programs, as well as candidates. Roosevelt, for example, is running for his third term, then I think, and that was unprecedented. He ran for you know. So after that they made a rule to legally do not just customary, and you, let's see, we had agitation going on for the first peacetime conscription, military conscription selective service. We've never had, we've had conscription before World War One. And this was United States wasn't in it yet. But this was heading into World War Two. And they felt the need to have selective service. And so the first piece, and then if we adopted it, then which we did that fall, in October, it was ratified in Congress. And we had in October, the first draft peacetime draft. Now during that time, and all of these upheavals and and all the new things that are happening and so on. We we from the University of Washington were people who were in the I'd say, I wouldn't say we were radicals, but we were very liberal. And we had we had a lot of people, a lot of our people were interested in it. Like VFW Veterans of Foreign war, we used to, we used to have a movement called VFW veterans of future war. And we're not going to go into that future or war. War is expensive, costly, and, and is the seat for the future wars. So we're upon stir it. So our group had the all the ingredients of war resistors. And we went to all kinds of open debates by national leaders, political leaders, all sorts of people. And this was in New York or New York. So New York would have been, everything was taking place there. So it was very crucial. It was a very crucial time for very impressionable young people to be there and to be right in the flow of all these exciting things. And so we were able to move ahead with our peace movements and that sort of thing. meeting some of the leading personalities in the Peace movements. Also,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=658.0,954.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: can you think of anyone in particular the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=955.0,956.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: meter? Yeah. Frank Olmstead, the Executive Secretary of War resisters League, AJ, musty emulous T. The Executive Secretary of the Fellowship of Reconciliation at war, that's a religious objectors group, passiveness world, war resisters, league, had all types wasn't confined to religious objectives. And we had some who were pacifist politically. We ran into a lot of Quaker leaders who were pacifists.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=957.0,1011.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And you weren't yet a Quaker. Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1012.0,1014.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, I became one. But a year later. But I matured fast in terms of sort of call coordinating myself into certain firm positions. I think being in New York was like, five years of experience rolled into one. Right, Derek is going into these meetings and with people just do just read about or just simply get a few, you know, little phrases attributable to these people, you're hearing them argue, argue, argue against each other, and so on. So it was one of those rare opportunities that you seldom run into, and we just, we just happen to be right in the heart there, air, hot, hot war, hot Climate Exchange taking place there and, and so in all kinds of ways. Not only those who happen to be peaceful movement, but those who are very active nationalists, you know, getting into military programs, and so on. We're advancing faster than that line. So we're all right in the forefront of things really active. And we came back, we came back after that summer. Before I was, I was inclined as a conscientious objector. By the time I came back, I was a firm conscientious objector and became, in the course of it, as some leaders would be drafted either into prison or into a conscientious objector camp, or something. I wasn't drafted immediately. But my roommate, for example, was in so we lost him as a leader on the campus. So I had to assume a lot of the leadership responsibility with the training I had I just used that experience to grow some more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1015.0,1173.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Do you remember what his name was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1174.0,1175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Howard Scott, we're still very close friends. In fact. We're not great correspondents. We're not keeping in touch all you know, every time we go somewhere, drop a postcard in a short letter. We didn't do that sort of thing. But When we get together, it might have been two years, we haven't communicated very much. In within a half hour, we're on the same level, we've been going about the same pace, in the same direction. And so we're seeing eye to eye, wherever we were. So that's how close we were. We moved ahead the same, but the same piece whether we're together or not. So I, I remained on campus, and happened to be active in various fronts, not only certain Christian movement, but with the conscientious objector movement. And with the prison group, and with CO camp, conscientious objector camp, people see the people who I'm converting some time here, because some of them would have been, who applied for conscientious objection, and didn't get it. But didn't they didn't change their views, it just didn't get classified. And so when they were supposed to go, they refused. And so then they were sent to prison. Some of the others went to their classified, and they were told to go to a conscious objector camp. And they went there. And I came along, and was about ready to go to a conscious conscientious objector camp. In fact, it was, after all of this discussion that took place among ourselves, you know, among student leaders, as well as with these experts that we were interviewing and arguing, asking questions, and so on. So we came back with that sort of thing. And then we registered for the draft. And by that time, my position was firm, I registered as a conscientious objector, because of the objectors that had kind of set the stage during World War Two, that the software a lot a lot of humiliations being treated in either in the military prisons or civilian prisons, and given Dirty Jobs and so on cleaning the latrines and all that sort of thing. All the heart heart jobs they got and, and they took it and they were practicing their pacifism, bye, bye, not throwing their top and fighting back, because it was against their principles. So they had a chance to practice their pessimism in in their own Miss risk treatments. Sort of bit, but because of that, the the constant conscription, and then in development of conscientious objectors in England, by the conscientious objectors in the one. They they had some legal position positions established to make it legal to take a stand like that. So I was benefiting from that. And then I got my one eight classification that the standard response at that time. And so I appealed that, then I had to go to a special board for questioning. And since I was looking at the University of Washington, they were they had people who were familiar with arguments on the board since one day asked all kinds of questions and I was I was familiar with this summer experience of arguments. So no rebuttals, so I was able to impress them, I guess, and they they gave me the revision to conscientious objector classification. This was complicated, to some extent by the fact that I wasn't Japanese ancestry and there were certain movements going restricting persons of Japanese ancestry in ways that violated the Constitution. This proclamation came down saying to all persons of Japanese ancestry, both alien and non avian. That's how they said they didn't say both alien and citizens said both alien and non alien must abide by these emergency orders. And these orders were officially emanating from the fact that the president during war, can see by this time now, Pearl Harbor had taken place. We had declared war. And Roosevelt was very pleased in the sense that he and Churchill had worked out all kinds of arrangements, helping the allies with everything except for sending our boys over. And so they had no one of the big arguments. And I guess it passed in Congress, because they were arguing it, then, and public meetings and so on with people like Norman Thomas was. So very articulate socialist liberal, like the most liberal Democrat you can get. And that would be Norman Thomas, with his socialist position. And he used to say, well, I don't mind. I'm running for president, this is 30 election for president I'm running, which is I don't mind because after, you know, the things I was campaigning for the two, two elections ago, the Democrats are finally put them in, putting them into the plank, you know, squeezes my subs getting in. So we're accomplishing things, I don't have to win each time to do it, my staff gets in there. And so we had, we had things like that going on. And that's when some of the Roosevelt had a lot of influence. He was influenced himself, a lot of people helping him were left leaning types. And they were working together, doing stuff like the new, you heard of the New Deal, we have this new deal. And under that were all kinds of social legislation that would bypass a whole lot of things that the laws allow the discrimination, kind of a Pass basis. And even though the role constitution says all men are created equal, women never got there, even recognition as persons for about 150 years after the that principles adopted, you know, especially Bill of Rights, you know, 14th amendment for the blacks and, and things of that nature, we had a lot of interesting things taking place. And in this this period. So I'm I'm mentioning this as the part of the climate in which I'm learning and probably advancing in my liberal social dark position more rapidly than in a normal situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1176.0,1740.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, now that I know more about your experience in New York, that explains a lot about the background, because I did not record it quite that extensively. You also mentioned that you thought that perhaps one of the things that allowed you to resist the way you did was the fact that you weren't as deeply embedded in Japanese American culture as some people were then you already had an identity more of an individual was wondering if you could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1741.0,1769.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: speak well. I think that's true. I'm I think what you're saying is I was more exposed to you know, the kind of attitude that the people who said The hell with this and toss the tea in Boston Harbor and so on. And, and sort of led to The Declaration of Independence. Well, now, are you both Canadians know, you're an American? Well, I'm in Canada now. And I realized to Canadians are much more placid about these things. And they don't fight frontally on everything, and they kind of work their way around. And they got their independence by sort of backing into a true Dominions status and this and that, and that New England was running Canada releasing certain things and finally, at the end, mainly the military program and the finance. The England still have control the veto rights and so on. They let most of the other things be ruled so that they're getting their independence. Slowly but But Americans just sit down with George George, so on and declared independence and you know, when you think about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1770.0,1879.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720#t=1880.0,1882.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158720/transcript/40725/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/040/725/original/azu_ms390_03_side1_a.vtt?1669928368","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/040/725/original/azu_ms390_03_side1_a.vtt?1669928368"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 6 - azu_ms390_03_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":1892.04898,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/721/original/azu_ms390_03_side2_a.mp3?1650394293","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1892.04898,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_03_side2 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The one thing that the Americans did, they didn't have to wholesale revision all the way through the social revolution. As rights came in. They just brought the base of all men, we change that to all persons. We didn't have to change anything in principle. And we just needed to regard Well, webinar are the people. The slaves are people. It took some time. Well, it took women 100 was a woman's separate in the 1920s 919 119 can be funny. Yeah, they're finally given their franchise. The blacks Emancipation Proclamation server gave them in principle, they're no longer slaves. But for a long time, they were still slaves. And in some states you know, there were variations in the states and state laws that permitted things. But, for example, they have to go through stages like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=3.0,106.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Plessy versus Ferguson or something like that. In 1890s. They said, segregation is legal. As long as people got fair shakes. And so they said, well, the blacks, blacks going to have some money for education, they get the old discarded books by the whites, the blacks, and so on. So nothing's equal. But in principle, they said, We're following this equality based basis. And so Ferguson versus a circus. Yeah, that meant that you could segregate legally, as long as everybody got a fair shake. It took Brown versus Board of Education to break that. That that took about 50 years in the 1950s. And they said that the very fact that you segregate you're giving somebody a preference, and that's not democratic. And so segregation per se was wrong. Because all those things, you know, like, you can't get democracy. This you know, right. A lot of work. Oh, yeah, you gotta end you got to make it practical. You got to make it so that everybody's getting it, not just the words past.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=107.0,204.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So how do you feel like your experience with sense of that long history of struggle?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=205.0,210.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm getting certain parts. And me going through that rapid changing circumstances in the 40s. I'm, I'm I'm becoming colorblind. And I'm looking at things not through the eyes of a minority who didn't have the fair shake. I did it so many times, because I knew I know when I was talking about equality, that economically I knew places that were wouldn't let me in hotels, restaurants, you know, Bill good as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=211.0,267.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: blindly or is sugar coated Lee as possible, but if necessary, they'll say, well, sorry, we can let you in. I mean, if if you boldly confront them. And we did that, to some extent. We have professors to work on that sort of thing. When they're going across the country to a national meeting or something one would take their star, Chinese student assistant, you come with me you could discotheques variants that you have to play a certain part were going to register you all the way across the country. And in that will test to what extent you're going to discriminate and you're going to have to face it I may get admitted and you won't once they see that we're white and non white doesn't have to be black Asians ran into a lot of the same so then he would write this up that this is what happened, you know, it's an x x plus in more of that sort of thing becoming expose, makes it easier for somebody to finally take it to court. So that's the sort of thing that took place and I'm I'm in the forefront of that sort of thing in terms of being exposed to that kind of information and during during the 1940s I had experiences like I'm working my way through school I worked first just just started I got a job as houseboy, you know, sort of serpent actually. mean that's legal, you can get a job with serpent. And the responsibility as a student is part time certainly. And, and I do whatever I'm capable of doing. I was interested in cooking and that sort of thing. So I helped them kitchen as well. You know, the housewife, I would help her with some dishes. I even got a doctor's wife and you never liked rice. I said I said What are you cooking? Fixing rice trying to get my husband to get the like I said what are you stirring rice how would you do it? I fix it. I fix it like my parents do. steam it. How do you do that? Well you gotta get you got to get a thicker pen than that. And then the lid that's tight. And then you get at boiling you put equal water and rice if the rice isn't the freshest you may have put a little bit more water in and then you boil that once once that comes up you will delete a little bit so that it doesn't spill over that as you I mean in the early days you if you're using gas so be the turned down but if you're on a wooden stove, you just move it over on the side a little more so that you lower the heat and then put the lid back is as much as you can to fully enclose and that's the way you do it. And so she followed that instruction and through Susan Rice and two weeks later she said you know he asked for summarize so that sort of thing. I had some experiences and I did I get a lot of they had one son and I did a lot of care for him","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=268.0,557.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and so it was experiences of that type and then after after that was my first year in university. I got my board and room and pin money, you know, like bus fare to the university and a little bit of pocket money, but it was like $6 to $10 a month, plus room and board. And whenever I could make adage of my own time after the kid was down, and I didn't clean up the kitchen. Then except on weekends when we did housecleaning, in the yard and so on. I was fairly free to work in my own study time. So it wasn't a bad one to arrange. But I was not there for the activities that my friends were having, you know, student activities, board meetings, committee meetings, and this activity in that so. And then I only went to quarters, University of Washington was a quarter system, four quarters a year, counting summer. And so the academic year was three quarters. And during the war, because of transfer students, military students coming in, and this and that, they went to a semester system. And so when I finished the prison and various other types of experiences during the war, I came back one year was the last part of this war program semester, and then Washington went back to the quarter system. And so I took a little bit lighter course each quarter with so I can do a part time job. And I, I worked on my room at the University of Washington, YMCA. We had a dormitory, and I stayed there. That's where I got my roommate. And he was in the other program, college summer service. And I was in the leadership training group. And we, we traveled together, and we decided to move together. And so we became very close friends. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=558.0,733.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the jobs I had, I had a part time University job as a statistical assistant for a few hours, and then add that to my pin money. And then then the way secretary said, See, I got a, I got a call from the downtown why business spends why they want they want to a good student recommended to do the swing shift their afternoon. Jobs till 10 o'clock or something. Because the four to 10. And when the guy's got off work, got lawyers, other dentists and so on, would come in for their exercising and so on. And so he said, How would you like a job like Ben says, forget some of these part time jobs that will pay for enough for you to survive, like half an income? So I said that that sounds perfect. So he says, Well, okay, I'll tell them I'm sitting down. One of our leaders said, and I got down there, Cam waiting. I waited about two hours for the appointment that was given to me. Two hours over a second get suspicious. I'm green, so I'm not catching on as fast as they were. They were expecting a watch too. And, and I'm sitting in the lounge down there at the bulletin boards for YMCA, international program, world brotherhood League, isn't that you know, all kinds of pictures of African groups and Asian groups, pictures, you know, all over the place. And so, I waited and I got up for the appointment. I decided, well, this is a new experience for me. I'm gonna go through with it. And I'm gonna go through through secrets and I'm gonna keep my cool and go through the whole thing. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=734.0,893.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he wanted me to back out but I see If I said I'm qualified for that kind of job, I can be glad to do that. And this and that. And he said, You know, I'm getting, you might run into some difficulties, some guys may not like to have a non white sitting there saying, No, you can't have that, or that hour, you can do it. I said, I don't mind that. I get that at the university. And I, I have no trouble telling students. These are not students. So he, he finally said, and then this fellow, I happen to know this. So I just was gonna test him too. So I stayed on. And he said, and he happened to be somebody who had served overseas, in China as part of his one ta field experience, you know. And so I stayed on. And I made him say that, that position is open. And you you, you qualify for it, but I can't give it to you. You have to tell me that, because I forced them to tell me that. Because I gotta find whites to do that job. When I got back, first thing my executive secretary, he did, he didn't realize how sensitive that was to those people there. He says, how to come out. And I said, because I just walked in. He happened to be walking by he says, hey, I want to come out. You have a good interview? And I said, Well, I had an interesting one. How to come out. I said, Do you have some time? Now, I'd like to talk to you in your office. So he sat down in the office. I never, I never saw such faces. And it was pain because he was an experienced executive secretary, at various universities, including the south. And I guess if I were a blank, you would have said, you know, gee, I think it's too early for that, or something. We didn't expect that kind of thing would be they would make such a fuss over that. So he, his pain was what's it doing to this young student? And so I really appreciated his concern and his feelings. And I guess he did his part, working on that sort of thing after that, working to change some of the practices now. Anyway, Woodbury, he went after that position. He got a better opportunity in terms of work experience. When UCLA is a bigger school, YMCA student way why it's a bigger program there. And he got the position being executive secretary down there. So you mentioned he went down there, but we went through this together. And after that, came the wartime experience, and then so there were there were things for which I ran into certain discrimination because I was not a GI. I didn't get GI bill when I came back. I work for a federal institution like US prison. But they didn't give me GI bill for that. But my department sociology gave me a teaching assistantship since I began graduate. And then they sit, then they came in and said, you know, you're you've got two kids. Right started with twins. They were born while I was in prison. And start. Yeah. And and, and then they said a lot of your colleagues they get, they're getting a teaching assistantship. Plus a D by GI Bill. And GI bill includes is his benefits, plus waiting to see if he's married and certain amount for each kid. Boy, so he says, You're You're, you're paying for a wife who can't work now because she got two kids. And, and one, how do you do them as you're like, I worked Saturdays, all day Saturday, that helps a lot. And they said, Would you be interested in another section? Teaching, that means, you know, you could teach if you teach it, two sections, we can double your income, they won't make it up to GI Bill, but they will lower the difference a little bit. And you won't have to you could use this. It'll be the same class. So there's another section of same class, you have more paperwork, but same preparation could go for those two classes. I see. Well, if you could do that, I jumped at it. So they gave me that. And then in due course, within a year's time, they said Say we're short of. We're short of some advanced courses other than introductory, so I started teaching social problems and family course and stuff like that. So then he eventually went to an opening came up for an acting instructorship. We got I got on to the shortlist two people. And we were just about the same experience. And the same. We were both we both got our master's degree, a year or two back and we're both PhD candidates and finished our coursework. And I guess we will read it about the par but I got the acting instructor ship because I was teaching some advanced courses. And he was only teaching introductory. And so I started getting these advanced advantages that because they were trying to give me a break of the differences. And, and so you know, I I owed a lot to, to my faculty trying to lower thing in fact, they told me one of them told me that the department chair was called on the carpet because he turns in the list of appointments that are made and fellowships and so on and instructors, teaching assistantships. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=894.0,1442.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the President said I don't like this idea. You're, you've got this guy that had been in prison, teaching our students. He said, Well, this guy. He's pretty good at us. He was an outstanding, Prof and nationally recognized and so on. So he wasn't afraid of his job. Lundberg George Lindbergh. He was one of the leaders of social science. They had they had people who said, we were trying to be too scientific. And he's saying we're not being scientifically now. And so, he, you said, Well, seems to me When he was released from prison, he got cleaned, cleaned out. He did is he paid whatever penalty the government required and they're satisfied with it. I don't know why we shouldn't have to continue to punishment, punish him. He seems to be doing all right. And as far as his record is concerned, he's an outstanding teacher. And he's doing very well, as far as my colleagues. Ratings are. So I don't see why. You're, you're hesitating. He says, Well, I just don't feel that we should have ex con teaching our students. And, and they don't need it. He went really went to bat for you. And, and they made that study that stood by so everything is okay. But see, they did this sort of thing for me. So I appreciate all that. And we don't run into that sort of thing anymore. If we did the court cases, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1443.0,1578.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: A couple of questions. to that. I mean, one about your feelings, yourself, being a prisoner, and another about how people do incredible support that came out in support and your stance and especially the rain families here. But I was curious, first of all, and did you consider yourself to be a political prisoner during that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1579.0,1606.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, to some extent, there's politics involved. But the ring family and other families like that, they, they were supporters of me as a person, and so on Being Well, to some extent, I expected you know, a rabid national, like waving American would not be comfortable with me, but I didn't have to sit around with those people. So there were plenty of people who we had a state senator who was active whose husband was a war veteran, spent most of World War One as a as a German prisoner. And I guess his most his wartime experience was trying to break out of prison we had about five attempts and you got caught each time but but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1607.0,1689.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the I think the the part that is the most difficult time I had was trying to you know, where I draw the line on what I accepted and what I want to protest","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1690.0,1713.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I know that I'm not allowed I didn't I didn't join all those","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1714.0,1724.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: protest groups that were they couldn't get into a restaurant or something. I just stayed away from those places I know which places raise problems I didn't want to run into that myself and I didn't want to my date or nor my others ran into their embarrassment growing up fun ruins here, unless you're going up to agitate and so all I had to do was to try to find To what extent do I let my left hand or my right hand dominate? And so, I let I let i i was practical in the sense that so there is this you know, inequality. I don't like it. I know the places not every place is that way. So just go to the places that would serve me with tolerate and and I didn't He wasn't the radical in the sense that I said, I would say, everything's got to be this way or else you know. So I didn't live on this. He, he thing, though, I was aware of those things. And wherever I had a chance I would do, I sometimes went to places and talk to the management and I said, I didn't want to embarrass my friends know my date, so I didn't do it when I'm going up for fun. They want to spoil the evening. But you have this policy here. And I was wondering, to what extent that's a valid thing to do and whether it's meaningful. And he says, Well, I don't want to lose my business and so on. And so one time I tested this out, I was in Idaho, small town Caldwell, Idaho. The father was a lawyer in town. I haven't denied him because he he attended one of my workshops.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1725.0,1873.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is this when you're traveling?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1874.0,1875.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No. But after that summer's experience, I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721#t=1876.0,1878.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158721/transcript/46432/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/432/original/azu_ms390_03_side2_a.vtt?1689799954","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/432/original/azu_ms390_03_side2_a.vtt?1689799954"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 6 - azu_ms390_04_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1891.0302,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/722/original/azu_ms390_04_side1_a.mp3?1650394296","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1891.0302,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_04_side1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I've said Well, great. Good to meet your parents and so on. And so I, they treated me real nice. And then I said, say, let me take you out one night","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=5.0,29.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you and your family treated me so nicely, I want to take you out. So pick the best place you want to go through and it'll be on me. And so he saw the best restaurant is this one Paramount restaurant. I said, Okay. And so we went there. We ordered it done on time and nothing happened. And I started getting suspicious. I said to the layperson, what's holding up our older and he says, Well, you're Japanese. I said, Well, I'm American, but my, I'm of Japanese ancestry. And well, I was told we can serve you. I said, Well, who said this is well, let's the restaurant policy. As well as this is a manager here or the boss here. Sidwell he's back there somewhere. And I said, Could you have them come up here and explained to me I want to ask him some questions. And and he's, he's, he's real interested in. I guess he became a lawyer eventually, like his dad's real interested in. So she went away and I said, Sam, I embarrassing. You says no, no meeting this up. So I said, Okay. We won't do anything that's embarrassing to you. So don't worry. And so he went, she came, says, well, he's, he's over there, right by the entrance to the kitchen. And he will talk to you there. So I said, Okay. And then we went over. And about two or three steps before he starts apologizing, says, champ, sorry about all this. You know, we can't do this. I mean, I can't. I'm in a dilemma. The poor the restaurant, people have said, this was during the war. And my parents have to be I was visiting there because my parents were working in that town, having volunteered to out of the camp, which was totally like in the labor short, sugar beet season, there's a lot of the people were in the military and so on, as well as some of the Caucasian people had a, you know, new industrial positions that were opening up factories and so on the paid more than farming, hard work on the farm. So they came up to work, and then they put up no gas. So I said, you know, this, this whole family, including your restaurant, and all of your friends will have the signs up would be suffering. If it weren't for the Japanese who are coming to save your crap. This is a heck of a way to treat people who are doing this and you're all benefiting from it. Everything I said he said, I know that I'm all for you. And so anyway, he was he was all for this. You know, he was for me, but he could do anything. He said, we're finally","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=30.0,276.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: right about that time. Another waitress, you know, what do I do with these orders?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=277.0,284.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I said, Well, I guess we can eat it here. So in fact, I didn't. I didn't say to chuck it. I said well, you can eat it here so you might as well pack it up. Fine. So someplace else to eat. And he's his own home, sit over here, just eat it here. And so I should remind my friends didn't know. So we sat down to go out and our eat that sandwich. And but I was watching at the door. How many people look like they left because I was around eating, or came in and saw me and left. I didn't see any of that happening. So I saved the whole thing paid for it. And then we left. And I said, Well, that was an interesting experience, at least we ate there. Maybe, maybe things will change. And he wrote a week later saying he took the sign down. And since he was leading restaurant, because he picked the nicest place. So since he was the nicest place to pick it down, slowly, the others began to take it down. So it went down. So I thought, well, that was a good experience for me there. You don't have to depend on it. You don't have to insist on everything's got to be done. Right? You know, or else give it time to grow, and change. And so I was being practical to that extent, although, although I had to live with myself, so I had to see oh, like, I can't, I gotta take a stand here. Otherwise, I wouldn't be me. And and so I took a stand where I had to, but I tried to be practical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=285.0,420.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You know, your stand was so important for so many people. I mean, not only, of course, not only time, but later when, especially at the time, we've interviewed other resistors and ask them, they knew about you and things. And some of them said they would have pictures of you up on their walls and, and things and I was curious, you know what I mean, how you feel about that now, if you knew about at the time, but also how you feel about that now, the kind of position that you play in people's minds?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=421.0,448.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I'm I know that I had certain opportunities to see. See where where American principles stand. And I tried to be like, the founding partners. And now I have to take a risk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=449.0,475.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=476.0,485.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Think I worked out a few things that helped me. For example, even though when you're a protester, on certain existing inequalities, it's hard to say, it's hard to say no, I won't do this. No, I'm gonna fight that constantly. Saying no, all the time is affects you, you become negative, affected by the negativity. So I try hard think now, how can I be positive about all these things, you know, still fight that. So I look for some common things that I could say no to, because I'm fundamentally saying yes to something. And, and I, I found the constitution to be my lifesaver there. and things of that nature. I was able to use that model. I'd say, Well, I say to the government, for example. I could say with a straight face and without being aggressive, and say, Well, I believe in the Constitution and I want to uphold it, it means a lot to me. And if I don't approve, don't uphold something. I don't see how I could insist on being a good American. So I'm for the Constitution. Therefore, this thing is violating the Constitution. So I've got to say no to it. I can't, I can't keep my stuff that I could whitewash that. So I can I can accept this. And even in prison, I told one of the officious fate relatively young but senior nightwatchman whatnot why Michael Knight offs we, we were, the system was when you arrive, you're lined up alphabetically from these to set you know, and and then then they rattle off, give you the numbers. And then and they said from here on in prison this is your name and and number this is your identification and everything will be done according to that. And so I heard, I know that when we got to the island were all placed in quote in quarantine as newcomers, for 30 days in one of the punks, one of the dorms. And after 30 days, you're moved as funks open in the main main dorms and sharing the files during our free period I heard my name called over the loudspeaker with some others. So I returned to his they said this, these people report to the officer for transferred to you new assignments, new bedding, new rooms. And four of us were cold. So I I didn't know how many actually, they just read the numbers off. In name, name and number and I just heard mine so I just went back to my dorm. And there was this guy. Cory was his name. What? Cory Corp why? Sitting on this bunker, should it movie. It's just no. They didn't call my name. Got here. See, I'm ah, you know, how come? This is I don't know, the only call for four numbers and yours. And three others in regard to the three others were there. Two natives and one black and myself. And the red flag went up. I couldn't. I didn't. I saw I saw the most ridiculous type regulations going on. But I said I didn't come to prison to reform it. So I'm gonna do my time and forget it, you know. But when I'm when I'm involved too reinforce it then acted, you know? That was that was more than I could accept. So I said I checked out the facts, and got the numbers and so on and names. Then I went down to the officer and I said, I've got I've got I heard the name. He says yeah, that's right. Here's what you're supposed to move on and you're moving. I said, Well, I've got some questions here. I said you call for names. But you didn't follow in sequence before names. We were told that everything was done according to sequential priority. Why? Why did you jump around like this? He says, I don't know. I didn't do it. I just have the orders. You for are to move. And and so I'm telling you. My orders are you move. If you have any questions, raise it to the superintendent Morrow. I said, Well, if I moved, he could ignore me. So I'll have a clarification first before I move. And he says you're going to defy my order. He got real purple practically. I said look, I don't want to upset you. You're doing your duty. I heard you clearly. You did your part. Whether I follow it or not is nothing personal. After you, I've just have certain questions I have to ask before I follow it. And so I'll ask this tomorrow and Superintendent shows up in need. And I'll do what you asked. But I'm not moving tonight until I get this clarification and is nothing personal. I don't I don't want to upset you. You said, You're upsetting me. You're defying my orders. No, this prison. We don't tolerate any defiance of that type. I said, well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=486.0,944.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I've tried to explain to you my position. And so I can't move till I get this clarification. Then I just turned around and left, because I thought the team I didn't strike me. And if he strikes me and everybody listening in, you know, because there's not many people come from an officer. And he, I didn't want to confront him, either. But he, he was defiant, you know, so I couldn't escape it. So it wasn't a matter of just clarification, he made an issue, violation was getting violated an order. And then next day, I figured I'd be called up. So I thought, well, I'll wait till he calls me up first, and then I'll, I'll ask him when he calls me up. Nothing happened. Nothing happened for about a week. And during that time, I asked some of my friends including my former roommate, he was also back in prison.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=945.0,1020.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I said, I got the Quakers have what they call consultation when they have issues where they want some discussion and advice. And so I asked about half a dozen guys to sit around the bunk with me and talk about this. I said, I'm in a situation, or course they all know about this. I want to ask your advice about this. I had peed my coat, several people some whose skills at considered important, but also I included people who had some prison experience. So I said Now clearly, I violated the rule. You know, I identified an officer that's unforgivable, in disciplinary sense. So I said, What could they do to me? Let's review what they could do and so on. So that's where the old veterans came in, says, Oh, well. The first thing they will do to an ordinary person, I don't know what they do to you. But the first thing they do to an ordinary prisoner who would defy an order is strawman, the black hole, the dark dark pitch that group does downstairs somewhere I never even got there. And so we talked about that, that's, that's a possibility. What else can they do anything worse? And they said, well, some of them they put them on bread and water. Ice said well, just to help me to hold the line better and rebuild the principles better. I could just go on fast, not not on you know something to agitate against them, but just go on a voluntary fast for a set number of days where I would refuse the food not eat meat, the food. They told me that when you eat when you eat in the pitch dark. It just tastes it looks tasteless. They said everything tastes the same thing. You know? So I figured I'm gonna suffer through some of that. So gonna, My past is not hurting much more. So I thought well, going on that fast, clear my mind and my spirit. So I'll go on kind of a clarification fast. So I was, what do you think everybody thought that what if you want to do that, that that's good, good technique. And I said, I'm not doing this. In defiance, I'm not trying to agitate them. I think that'd be useful for me to take the stand. And what else and so on, and we discussed various things. And you know, we were above you know, in the chain gang. They could be, you know, they have to worry about being whipped, and so on with chains and all sorts, but not in a federal pen. So that was I didn't have to be concerned with that. And, and so that seems to be about as far as I could see that we arrived at in terms of what can we do? And but I had these six people, at least, as far as they could advice. Listen to this, and listen to what I I could do to help myself. And then, about two weeks later, my name was called and went up. And he said, what seems to be the problem? I said, well, so that's going to ask you. This is what I confronted a couple of weeks ago, my name was called. And I returned to pick up my gear to move several people whose numbers were lower than mine. Were sitting on their bunks. And I said, Why aren't you moving? And I said, Well, they didn't call my name. And they only call for names. And the four names were all non non white names. So how do you explain that? What's behind this? And, of course, I know, but I want him to tell me that. I said, this is a federal institution, isn't it? Is there a racial discrimination and federal institution is all over the place? So it is ridiculous for me to ask him with a straight face. But I asked him, he said, Of course not. This is a federal institution, we don't allow that. So he, he left, he left the legality, you know, against himself. And, and I said, Well, he said, what was this? What numbers were involved? And I said, Well, I've got a list here, I came with 21 people. And here they are, you know, they gave the names. Right down and and their numbers. He says, Let me see that. He looked at it. And he started to check. He says, Well, I'll excuse you now because I got to, it took me a little while to look into this. And so I let it go. I said, Okay. And he had a master's degree in social work. So he's more educated academically than the prison staff. Those are some of the regulars I could hear them talking, when they're going out on work crews and so on. And they said, Gee, so on. And so something happens God channel had been him a couple of times, get them in line, you know, this way they taught him. And so I thought that I don't know what would happen. And then I think another almost two weeks went by. And then another order came on with a whole slew of names in including mine, to move up to an erstwhile all white dorm. And so he decided not to get involved in that he just made a new new roofing. And after that those two dormitories were primarily white, but not exclusively, as it turned out. And when my name was called the people up in the dorm and they're in the they're all double bunks. You know about All 40 people in there are people on this other side. And they had a bump pick for me already. And so it was almost like victory parade. And, and so I had that experience in prison. And so that that gave me a real philosophy to follow in terms of difficult situation, find something, find something that you could be for that's very fundamental, as a result of which you got to say no to some things in order to be consistent with that foundation. And I use the Constitution as a good one, in terms of legal situations. And then I could say no, and then I could I release myself","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1021.0,1565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so that I don't have to bother with this guy that's ordering me to do some of the things that I don't like. I I already said no. So I won't do it. Not not because he's ordered me to do it. But I can tolerate that practice. And that's because I'm, I'm primarily for something. And that's been helpful all along. That's helped me through the good part of these didn't answer everything. But it helped me most of my crises. And makes makes it easier to face difficulties.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1566.0,1620.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So how do you feel about being held up as an example?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1621.0,1625.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, if some of those people were some of those people have to have some inspiration, it's it's, it's surprising, you know, they asked me, Do you happen to think about doing that? Or how can you do that? Without, you know, getting the rug pulled out and so on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1626.0,1654.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't think about I think about how, how can I stand up? What's, what's the foundation that I could stand on? And then I tell I tell the people, I'll take whatever punishment they give me, I'm ready to take the punch and do what you have to. I'm doing what I have to and I'm on I'm not holding it against you. You do what you have to do this in a guard, for example, on time. Another very popular guard because he was a small minded guy, always here taking prisoners and stretching them make the worst of the best of a bad situation. And for example, when I was heading they gave me some they gave me some difficult jobs like laundry. Clothing, yeah, clothing, issuing fresh calls to people after work group twice a week. But every day these guys they go out work, they come in with sweaty shirts, and so on, and they take a shower. And you know, this thing is still wet. Put on them. So they, they usually did show some shirts, instead of throwing it in the laundry the previous time the digit around underneath the mattress or someplace. And they were that dry one and put this one too to dry out in the night. And he goes around looking under police so when he comes in with liquid I find I said I'm not interested. He says well, and he adopts it. Yeah, what are you doing with that? He says Well, I these, these are laundry that should be thrown in and clean. I said well, they don't belong there. I don't know where you got them but this is not the place to put him. And he says well you put them where you where the laundry is supposed to go and I see you brought him so you put them it's your business, not mine. And he looked at me and then I think he must have known that I don't care if I lose that and he knew that I defied people before and I and I didn't threaten him at all I just said you move it to stop my job","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1655.0,1829.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and this is going to stay there. So he looked me in the eye as well. I thought how long is he gonna do this? When he picked it up so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1830.0,1850.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you know this job, people aim to get that job. They're politicians. And and they do it is because as soon as I got the job, I had guys come over and you know, some long timer life or something. So it's, you know, I'm used to getting that blue shirt, and I'd like you to save the Sunday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722#t=1851.0,1853.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158722/transcript/46433/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/433/original/azu_ms390_04_side1_a.vtt?1689799996","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/433/original/azu_ms390_04_side1_a.vtt?1689799996"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 6 - azu_ms390_04_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":1665.0449,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/723/original/azu_ms390_04_side2_a.mp3?1650394298","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1665.0449,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_04_side2 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't need anything for that as part of my job, to the best I can. And so I wouldn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=3.0,11.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: agree to anything like that. And that kept me free not only to fellow prisoners, but to the guards and others.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=12.0,25.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And that's what I think that's why they gave me that job. And and I thought it over. I decided, well, I'll take it and see how it works out. Instead of seeing it, I don't think I handled this when it came out quite well. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=26.0,49.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I I have to, you know, you have to, you have to pre be be prepared to pay certain price for it. Under certain circumstances I might have, I might have had to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=50.0,70.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: If I try your something I didn't have to worry about. I just said, take them do whatever they want. I'll do what I have to maintain my own dignity. And even in prison, it worked out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=71.0,94.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And a couple of last questions about the prison here. And especially since you've been here a couple times now. I'm curious, first of all, what what I mean it describe what your reaction was to finding out, of course, was reading a site on your name. And then also, what the site means to you. And if returning after a couple of times has brought up the memories for you, or made you think about the press differently?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=95.0,129.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I was I was right from the outset. You know, Mary Farrell, is senior, senior forester, archaeologist. She's married to a national park service archaeologist. And he's, he's been delegated, among other things, everything that is going to be a park, including this site. He's asked to research things, what's the history of it, and so on. And so quite a ways back. I had a roofer that my name was being bandied about to be named for one of the prisoners sites. They were some of my friends were laughing about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=130.0,186.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I always like to be your name, name for prison. And I ignored it. I said, Well, that's not worth worrying about. And and then sure enough, it was just Jeff Burton that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=187.0,207.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: came across my name. And he happened to know conscientious objectors and so on list, I don't maybe he is one. I never got to know to help. Anyway, he knew he knew that I was one of those that was at that Brisbane.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=208.0,227.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And so he suggested to marry. Yeah, to name it after this guy, because he's, you could put up a good information packet on that, because here's a guy that stood for who spent some time here because he stood for civil rights for all people, not just his own self, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=228.0,254.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: for all people of all backgrounds. That makes a nice package. And I That's my guess I never talked to anybody about that. But when I heard this I said, well, first of all, I got mixed feelings. If it were the person that still control this thing, he named after some, some political or some senior prison administrator or something. So I said, from that viewpoint, I'm glad that they're given to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=255.0,307.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: somebody who's whose contribution manpower wise was the biggest, which is inmates. And I mean, there's other people that helped build the highway engineers, planners, and so on doing that stuff, but over the decades, I don't know how many decades it took the Mad Men that came in and somewhere on risky Johnson on dynamites, and so on. And some of the you know, it's spectacular highway, some of we were dangerous cliffs and so on. There must have been some serious accidents that took place in the history of the development. Anyway, I said, I think that was the right path, except that here I am, there's no like Roger. He was out and about eight years or something. I don't know how he got that kind of sentences, it's confusing. Then there are lifers in, you know, over the history of Dishonored camp, those who you know, one of the ones who were arrested for murder or something that really nice guys in general people who just got embroiled into something and got involved in that. But, but some of it turns out to be very moral prisoners as far as that goes. And as a reward some of them have from El Paso, Leavenworth, and so on. They've been given the transfer as a kind of reward for being a model prisoner. So I said, there's a lot of people with life in prison service, and some of them who spent even among the Japanese who spent,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=308.0,427.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you know, I don't know how, how they get these long sentences,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=428.0,432.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: because penalty for Japanese involvement and penalty for conscientious objection and five years of service and for the Japanese in his 12 months. So, you know, if you get penalties, fines, 30 days, you will erase all the fines. So I don't know how long how they get get such long sentences. But some of them been there for a long time. So I said, seems ridiculous for somebody who spent here 90 days should be named. So I'm embarrassed about that. And I think it ought to be a hobby or one of the other Japanese for some lifer. But they don't want to put down some of them don't make it good. For parking, who's this guy, you know, his name is they want to be able to say, here's a guy that did something for the citizenship. And so that's what I think happened. Any rate somewhere along the line, narrowed down, I know that forests are service, let the thing go for about two decades. It was up there, you know, after the after the force, I mean, the prison reached Mount Lemmon and highway was finished, they returned the land. And they said we're gonna locate some other place or some other project. And they and then they removed all the stuff, you know, or they really moved everything except the, you know, built in foundations. And so that two years ago, we have to have all kinds of these portable toilets brought in just for the 200 You're still they were surprised to that 10 number because they're used to handling animals and trees and so on. And they didn't know how many people would show up to a naming of that site. And then then because of what to a large extent it was the war resistors of the Japanese who did it in several camps. Almost people only part of which Ammachi Colorado group had a big batch there. Most of the others who showed up for people who were resistors in other camps, but they identified themselves as prisoners here. And they showed up in big, big numbers man's in our people, and white, white heart, mountain, heart, mountain people. Those were the two major ones that gave leadership to the conscience people. And I wasn't a part of that group, because I made my own stand. And never went to kin. My parents did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=433.0,655.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: One of my brothers said, my parents ran into some heart, heart attitudes by people who because of me was that he's acting up raising, raising problems. And as a result, some of us have to suffer more for our confinement. But my parents never said that they suffered anything serious. Except you're wondering why he would continue to stick his nose up all the time, you know, instead of not rock the boat. So much. Let it go. But they agreed with my principles. That's just how we feel. But you're going to suffer? And I said, Well, I'm willing to take the penalties for that. But you don't suffer extra because of me. Listen to all that. I'm not concerned with that they said. And on the whole, once the first agitation of that type took place, it's been one that they were appreciate. People would say that when they arrived into the lake from the temporary camp, Crystal, California, it was hot, like this 110 or something. It's so hot they would with the mattress with the newspapers on the cot. Try to get underneath. Cool off a bit. So when they were up to the lake in Northern California, it was a godsend for them coming in from Northern Northwest. And as they were unpacking their stuff in the apartment are the numbers that they were given. Somebody came through the door. The answer was a couple of ladies who were one of the early residents from Terminal Island. That was, you know, in Los Angeles Harbor, the fishing because of naval ships and so on. They were the first ones to move. And they were in to the late camp. So they were at the entrance. And so they said we have to walk about a mile and a half. Dusty the but we we heard that family development finding case in Seattle is has arrived so we want to come welcome you too. And also to say thank you for your son. So they had that kind of thing happening more after the first first nudges of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=656.0,870.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: disappointment. It's all in that visual sign. They were concerned. They took it in stride. They weren't you know, waving the flag or anything. They just took it in stride.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=871.0,887.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And they said if anybody said anything as always I hope he's not suffering too badly. But we're glad he's doing it for us. That sort of thing. So I,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=888.0,909.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I found, the thing I regret the most is that I didn't anticipate this sort of thing happening. I did to some extent, because I read some. For example, one of the things that personally helped me a lot was a book that was published self published by the parents of a conscientious objector in World War One. He, he felt that it was wrong to try to kill the guy, no more involved in the German army than He is in the US Army. And that's what a lot of the people are doing. And so he was writing his own feelings, what he's doing, and all those letters the parents kept in publishing. And titled, I was it was published and I read that when I was in the dormitory, YMCA, the lightweight way labor. And I'm trying to find that book. And I don't know how to find it, because I don't have a record of words. And sort the title of the book other than I was a conscientious objector. That's about the only Title I can give. That may be enough to. And I found that in the library, seat, the University of Washington, YMCA, y m, y, w. was sold to the university. And when they took over and they became part of the school social, and the Y library must have gone to some other why there is no University of Washington, why? If they had the white library somewhere, I look there. I don't know where it went. And I never had a chance to really, each time I'm in Seattle, I'm busy doing other things. And gee, I didn't do that this time. Nowadays, I just forget to do it. So I can't get that book. But I had some thoughts of keeping a record for that kind of thing. So I had some thoughts, but nobody kept it up. I never kept my own notes. I have correspondence. Huge correspondence by people who might know from these international like my leadership training course. I had students who wrote me letters from different places, and would say, I read your letter to my class. And if they were your jury, you'd be out. And that sort of thing. They and letters, constant letters from people in addition to the ring family. See one of the that that was a handicap to me too. You know, I was very close to the daughter there are normally Well, here family is part of the family record. Yeah. And it was, I noticed that but I was I enjoyed taking her out meeting with her and so on. But I'd never my my roommate was was Caucasian. Howard Scott. He and I were very similar. We didn't belong to a church, but we had strong religious feelings. We're independent. And we both were passiveness and we both became Quakers. But at the same time, he kept saying to me, Well, she cares for you. I see. Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to overdo this. I don't want her to feel obligated. Or if I feel that she's answering my dates, you know, invitations because she doesn't want to hurt my feelings. I'm going to change. I don't want somebody coming out just because of that. But On the other hand, I knew she was friendly. And I enjoyed dealing with her. But I didn't want to I didn't want to put her into a test. Because I didn't know where what situation I was going to be, I didn't know how long I was going to be out, or how long I'm going to be in prison. And, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to become a martyr. So I, I, in fact, I refuse to follow my roommates advice. He really cares for anyone, I let her know that, that you care, too. I said, Well, I don't want to. I don't want to do. I don't want to have this get involved because of that one way or the other. And so I never know, I never I don't know today. To what extent I haven't sat down with her say, are you feeling enough talking about how you felt during those days, because shortly after I announced my engagement to my first book she announced her engagement to persons she's married to now. And really a nice guy. He was one of the active leaders of the conscientious objectors lifted camp. And who was not one of these resistors kept harping on the government. And they're still very good friends of mine. His name is Carrie Davis. Davis. Davis. And I once showed her a book, I received this book who sent me when I was heading for prison. And it was a it was a very friendly supportive letter. You could read into it some other things. But I didn't want to. I didn't want to I didn't feel at liberty to read into things. Because I wasn't that Sure. I wasn't that sure that she cared that much that she's willing to go down on the front with me. And so I still don't know where really doesn't matter that much now. But she she was a good friend, and she's still a very good personal friend. And and Charlie wrote me a nice little gauge. I mean, he was See, she was one of the few women that is like, they were like, GIS, you know, in regular army going to us old when they come into the city, and they want to there are only a few girls and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=910.0,1433.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't know she must have had attendance very high on the list. But she could have picked you said that she was she you know, she was equivalent for conscientious objectors. See when they came in? There's there were half a dozen other girls in Seattle, or maybe there are more than that. There were, I would say half a dozen very attractive girls. Good personality with dates. And I think Charlie was strongly interested I know there were some others interested. And I didn't even put it up to a test you and I hurt her feelings I found from my roommate and others by not talking with them But how I felt and then getting engaged to this other girl who became my first wife","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=1434.0,1514.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and she did something. I see, I didn't realize all these things were going on among girls. You know, they're competing, you know, when I was telling my mother how I felt about this. She said, Well, when she comes down a girl gets engaged, you know, only once, or only a few times. And so, I said, Yeah, but, you know, we're you know, those are symbols. And we don't put too much weight on those symbols. She says, they're important for people. She said. I'm going to, I'm going to give you money, get a ring. If you're getting engaged, give her a ring.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=1515.0,1573.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: She's got a treasure. So it was a lot of sugar beet working out of camp, and she insisted that I go first one, the first one I looked at was wanting to do almost needed magnifying glass to see that there's a diamond there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=1574.0,1604.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So I thought that it's going to fire with her money I bought, I bought fairly decent. And, and first thing she did, she was going to school. And so she was able to flash it, flash it and tell her that she bought it from me. And Eleanor wrote me that she found out she showed she was shown this and I could just imagine how it was. I felt very badly when I used to watch","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723#t=1605.0,1607.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158723/transcript/46434/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/434/original/azu_ms390_04_side2_a.vtt?1689800032","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/434/original/azu_ms390_04_side2_a.vtt?1689800032"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 5 of 6 - azu_ms390_05_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":1890.03755,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/content/5/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/724/original/azu_ms390_05_side1_a.mp3?1650394300","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1890.03755,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_05_side1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I never was very good at coding. You know, I may I may be, I may be pretty from people's eyes. I'm pretty courageous, you know, sticking my neck out or confronting the government. Now that those things did you know, as long as I stood for something, and I was able to say I'm standing for this, as long as I prepared myself and rated myself, by me doing this, and willing to take the consequences. I didn't feel that I was, you know, there wasn't any special courage that was involved. But when it came to Kenyans Well, how was how was anything but courageous? I was a chicken. And I would, they have to give me a lot of opportunities before I can take the chance of asking for a date or something. I was so backwards and so terrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=8.0,85.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think a lot of us","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=86.0,100.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was kind of peppered with questions that I was interested in, too. I'm sort of curious if you visit any of the sites, any of the places I've been here where we've sort of memorialized internet if you visit any other places like Manson or Harvard?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=101.0,118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, I've, I've just seen man's not from the road, because it's been so well publicized that I've, I've known it must be somewhere around here. And there's just a sign on it and all and nothing there. And Mount Whitney. I mean, when you're driving by a mountain, you can't see it right away. Because you don't have a perspective like Mount Rainier, or single month. So I noticed that and I visited heart mouth. You know, if you had see mountain peak, if it was a flat top that month, I guess Gee, that except for the cactus I can see. That looks like Hartman is sort of a single month with the flat top. You know, it's 90 miles from Cody, right by Yellowstone. And that was the place where the biggest resistors movement started. So I I've I've been interested in their movements. I've been interested in all of them when I meet them, like it makes me want to and I met this whole group of young young fellows, some of them who were there to where they're Yoshi yo, your show? Caribbean? Yeah. In his wife who was here, and tack, pushes, that pushes actually, he and I were, I knew him the best because we were on the same baseball team. He was in the outfield. I was there baseball. And he didn't make the Japanese team. They they had a real good team. And we picked up those didn't make risky. As part of our team. We call ourselves internationals, we're mixing and so the leaders, C pack, and most people who are in their early 20s Young people, the leaders who are in their latter 20s or early 30s. Those people were sending Leavenworth the older the leaders were sent to Leavenworth penitentiary, and the younger boys were sent to McNeil and I met them there's 33 of them and they know me because you need to come up with a case like this. But I always felt we've done the same thing, except that I did it myself and they were removed. And so I always stood with them on their positions. And the book that they came up with recently saw that new paperback, I was just reading it, my name is Yogesh gave me a copy. And I was gonna get it, but I hadn't come across it yet. And he says, Well, I haven't had one. This is where you gave it to me. He gave one to begin one to Roger. And now the chief editor of that book, Bill Horry. He said, he's one of these unique, prolific reader with a photographic memory. And I'm one of those guys, remember all kinds of stuff. And the mind like the trap, you know. And he's, some people could call him brilliant, brilliant, in his way. On historically reviewing things, you know, and he, he needed, he needed something of his own calls to the right instead of just about others, means he's the one on columnist and so on, right. And he found his home there with this group. But he, he took a stand at that time, too, but I didn't know that he was part of this group. But I thought he was just with them. As an editorial assistant. He's the leading lead lead writer, this part, and then your shin tech and others were listed assistants. And tech is quite a, he was just this person who had his university career to finish at the same as me. And when I got out, I had to get my degree, year ago, which was suspended all during the war, and then finished in horticulture and got his PhD at UCLA in time afterwards. And he did some studies in Antarctica, looking for places where what would happen under plants, you know, without a lot of latitude or longitude influence, what would happen and so to do that, they had to go to work. He had a project that included that, that kind of experiments, I don't know how that came out. He's and then we had a common friend we met that we enjoyed very closely with. He was He was friendly to Japanese. He was, he liked Japanese art, so much, and dance and so on that he became. He couldn't become a Japanese dancer, but he became a kind of Asian South Asian dance director, and Hollywood actor, and so on. And he was a conscientious objector, but he didn't have any church connections. So he never got classified as an authentic religious objective. And he never asked for that. So he met him in person. And when when my wife was becoming expectant mother the whole whole jail was waiting for this because each each week, she'd get bigger. I mean, not each week. They came about every other week. and they had the bookstore manager, University of Washington bookstore manager, whose son was principal. So he drove in and he, he also drove in my roommate. And my wife, and another person would come in his car across a ferry still come to a DLL or the other week busy. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=119.0,641.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: when we all knew that she was getting pretty big, but we didn't realize they were twins, she didn't either. Because each time to check, you know, in those earlier days, wartime days, I guess even then they must have had ways better than just listening, listening, you know, because each time they listened, she only heard one part. Maybe if she were suspicious, he would have tested around but he just, you know, she just, and she didn't even know. She was saying, you know, when the ankles would swell or something, and they were sewing just shoots every day. So she was checked in the hospital. Her parents were looking at said, the doctor said, well, nameko ankles swell, just send them to the center to the hospital, and then home me. And by the time the the doctor came, she was in the waiting room. And parents were visiting. And she, she said, and there was a one of these flippin nurses, as well. You know, all you people are worrying about this and that. Just relax, just relax. She said this, one of the baby. I think the baby was born. She felt something. Your people are always imagining things. And oh, my God. One of them was it was they were twins. And one of them was born in bed, they rushed into the delivery room for the other one was born about an hour later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=642.0,764.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And then superintendent, Chris called me down. And he said, Just had a phone call with your father and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=765.0,782.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he said, your wife and two daughters are all doing fine. And then the other officers were just seeing ours. And the newspapers, she she had a big paper came out, you know, front page. On one. I have that page. On one side was I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=783.0,827.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Churchill was defeated by who was it? That defeated them. He's a wartime heroes. Prime Minister. Winston Churchill was that athlete? Somebody like that? Somebody who wasn't too well known. But where the war fever had died down enough so that he was a surprise upset winner. That was the headline on one side and the other side was, I think, Japan feelers of surrender from Japan or something. This was 1945 August beginning those are the two headlines and then the center was a picture of my wife with two little babies on photograph and it said Sharon meats and Baby B. Name they're waiting for from prison. First of all, it's his wife of DC wave of DC. And her twin daughters. Sharon beat so we had one set of male and one female parents Japanese name and English name. And gentleman's girl's name was my mother's name. And we like to call her Mitzi as a nickname. And Sharon, we weren't going to call her camera. Karen was a popular name then and we picked it. Only to find that a month earlier. Maybe it was two months earlier. It was half month or half year earlier, half year. My, my wife's brother, his wife. And the name there. Karen, Ruth, Karen. So we didn't want we didn't feel free to Karen's in the family. So we picked Sharon. So we had Sharon Mizzu. And we had Paul. I don't know what got these. I can't remember. When","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=828.0,1004.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I used my, I had a very good friend. I didn't really consult him a lot. But I respected him while he was serving a life sentence. He was in from Alaska, Japanese fellow. And when he was in his 20s he got an abroad or in within the role that he was involved in. I don't even know the story. But he got a life sentence. And so he'd been there 20 years or something by the time I was there, during the war. And real nice guy, very quiet, diligent person. And highly respected by other inmates. He was very quiet. And so I went to a situation Sharon into was named after my mother. And I have to find another name with finding another English name, and we we couldn't use Karen. So we got married. That's one syllable pronounciation to one syllable, but we couldn't think of another one. So we got Marian we'll call her Mari. You know, Ma Ri the first part, we should call her Mary, Mary and Mary. There's a Japanese named Marty, Marty. But I asked him for something that sounds nice name that sounds similar. So he among the different things he suggested me add characters and I forgotten what character he had given me that I thought was fine to go. But the pronounciation we picked was set to be two and set two. But we are to use that and and Marian is always been Mari. So this Mitzi and Marie, and like the grandfather could never tell apart or, you know, they're my wife's parents. He adored the girls. He used to embarrass me because you know, they like care. And then a year later, there was another one. They had another one, Judy, and they had other grandkids come and eat it. But he adored the girls so much that he practically ignored them. And he kept talking to them about you know, when you get old enough. He used to be a naturalist. He was a forest Professor later before he retired, but he was part naturalist. And so he said, I'm going to pick you up and we'll camp up by the Rainier National Park, and so on. And then when he had the chance to do that, when they were, I don't know, five or six they had a brother 18 months later when they were still on diapers, as before dryers here. So diapers that were hanging","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1005.0,1250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in 2d, the she Judy came over to grandma or grandpa was talking about, we're going camping. And you know, it was his lifelong dream to take the twins out. And he's always bragging about the twins, twins and so on. And fortunately, they were they were very friendly. They never fought with each other. And they took care of the younger brother. We never, you know, and he got sick. He didn't bother us. He had two nurses. And, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1251.0,1301.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he told me, you know, I've been dreaming about taking things out every time up in the mountains. But God came and said, Aramco, Mitzi and Bahria, going camping, can I come along? And she says, she's my granddaughter, too. I can't. I didn't know what to say. I couldn't say no to her. So I included, had to include her. And so since he included it very set up. I'm also including Jay Sutton. So you have to go to but he used to, he used to get in, he didn't mind. He said, Well, they're my favorites. Says. And he would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1302.0,1355.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he would always talk most about that. But they know that he's they were his favorites. But they never, he never responded as you know. That's, you know, I'm where their grandpa's favorites or something. And the ages, they were so friendly to everybody that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1356.0,1380.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they all want to be their friends and they're in school, they were, they never had need of others. They, they didn't even need the mother too much in terms of, you know, serious questions and so on. They sort of consulted each other, even to this day, they are each other's best. So they just never,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1381.0,1409.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: never saw people who","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1410.0,1412.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: could moderate so well. That they will diffuse all kinds of issues. And anyway, that topic. I would just glad to be a part of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1413.0,1438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what led to this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1439.0,1441.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Alright. I think we're kind of done with their questions that we had. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1442.0,1449.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, anything else? An issues or something that you want to raise? Like pick up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1450.0,1466.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a corporate one. And as you answer questions, you have also answered questions and ask. Like I was curious about a variety of things. Sure, it's a pleasure to talk to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1467.0,1480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1481.0,1481.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well. What are you doing with this? You're writing a thesis to different fields.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1482.0,1490.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes. But to get to different dissertations to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1491.0,1495.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: some of the different questions like for example, her emphasis on Place an archaeologist. Yeah, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1496.0,1502.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: thing that I'm interested in is like my PhD is in anthropology. And the topic that I'm interested in particularly is the importance of place in the places where internment is memorialized in the history of the resistors. Like that, and memorialized in sort of focusing on this area. But I'm also interested in how people former internees visit in these places and what also storytelling, what they tell their children about their time here and whether visiting different places like this helps them tell different stories and remember their history. That's what mine is about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1503.0,1554.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, please, just follow me there. The place I think McNeil Island, I spent the most time there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1555.0,1575.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in terms of experience, you know, like, my responsibilities and so on, I had the most opportunities to do different things. But you, I was here, that was only 30 days, or 90 days. And I really was sorry to come to the end, because I was I was interested in thinking. And Jim in general, but they gave me a good job at a prison camp. And I got there, they gave me, you know, an ideal job, but I was my one man team in charge of recreational facilities. And so I, being in sports, I just fixed up the ball field and other kinds of and ball area, I wasn't much of a handball people when I fixed up those places. And then then by yourself, you know, I was that was about it, picks up the horse shoe, and so on. And then I got a little bored. But I noticed, among the other things, you know, compared to jail, jail, food, federal prison, meals. It's just like, five star place. And I told I wrote a letter to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1576.0,1689.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: shortly after I got there, I wrote a letter to the chef that I've been really enjoying is baking. The bread and the pastries were the best that I could imagine, inside or out. And he, I was talking to somebody the other day, who said that the chef had mentioned that the need, he was so pleased to get that he worked in the kitchen. So he said the chef was so delighted to get a letter, other than a complaint. And I think one of the reasons I wrote him letters, you know, I genuinely felt that and I thought, I should write him a letter because he probably gets cranks and so on. And nobody ever sent so many compliments. So I wrote terrific on and then then it occurred to me, why don't I work for it? Learn a few things. And, and so I said, you know, after you stopped me, because he was waiting there. Your your Gashi I said, Yeah. You see, you're the one that wrote me the letter and I said, Yeah, I really appreciate your baking. He said, Well, it's the first time I received anything like that and so I need and that was about the end of that conversation but within The week I got inspired to ask him what are the chances of joining yours? Cool. I'll do anything. Learn a few things about baking. Maybe I could learn a few things about some of the pastry. Any. He said, Well, gee, I wish it I wish you grease that question last week. I just, I just feel my staff so that I'm kind of filled up. But when the opening comes, I'll let you know. I said, Well, good. And then and then in a few days, he said, I got something worked out. I think he studied and decided he could do something. And he said, we could we could put him on and you could start him and so I started pastries and so on baking bread. First of all, you know you're doing bread, not with a small little yeast. But you know, pound of yeast you throw into the thing. I'm like this and and I didn't realize that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724#t=1690.0,1692.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158724/transcript/46435/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/435/original/azu_ms390_05_side1_a.vtt?1689800064","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/435/original/azu_ms390_05_side1_a.vtt?1689800064"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 6 of 6 - azu_ms390_05_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":1053.04816,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/content/6/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/158/725/original/azu_ms390_05_side2_a.mp3?1650394303","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1053.04816,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["azu_ms390_05_side2 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: My sentence was before I got, you know, any expertise, I was out, that was too bad because that was one time that I would have wanted another month,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=4.0,15.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you know. And then I I found out, there's all kinds of recipes available. And with that knowledge, gee, all sorts of things. Well, in any way I could to get a job as a baker,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=16.0,40.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: when I finish. When I came out of school, I had a, I had one aim to get my degree. I had less than a full year. But I thought, you know, if I did one year, comfortably, I could do it was even a side job. But I didn't I didn't work in the bakery. I couldn't get a job. It was one of those that if I can't, I can't get a job unless I have some experience. And I can't get experience I must say. Yeah. So I had I had a good bookstore manager gave me a good job, temporary jobs. His nightwatchman wanted to get vacation. And they were looking for somebody. And so you know, on the one hand, here, I am just not a prison. Watchman in a store like, million dollar, multimillion dollar story. And and then when there was that they're investigating, he was worried he didn't want to, he wants didn't want to interfere with the investigation. But he didn't want want them to get any notion that they're, you know, here's Expeditioner here. Because they'll, they'll profile me as guilty, right away while you're in prison. So he said, they're going to do some interrogating and everybody's being questioned. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=41.0,169.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: do you mind if I stay in the background, but if I listen in what they're doing is he didn't want anything funny. At the same time, he didn't want to interfere. So he stayed in the background, but he listened in and he said that I don't want them to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=170.0,193.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: get the notion that you had a prison record. Go to second base with that. So but he recommended to a good friend of his, which ran the bakery right across the street from the bookstore. Big victory university district.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=194.0,218.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And so we said, well, maybe get an opening for you there. And he asked when they have this restriction, union restriction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=219.0,231.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So I decided, well, I guess that's, I read the signal. I read I read this to notice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=232.0,244.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Get on with and get that DVR though. Whatever you doing, the degree will come in handy. That's what I finally concluded. So I went back to school, and then I never got out of school. ever, never feel like I got my degree. And so some departments and you thought about graduate school? No. I've got three kids. And my wife's too busy working. I mean, taking care of them, so she can't work. And so I couldn't get on with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=245.0,287.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the work. You did well. We can give you a fellowship. Teaching Assistant chapter got something out. It's I said okay, and then we started off. In Little by little, they tried to reduce the difference by that time the Korean War was over. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=288.0,313.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: gi started coming in huge numbers. And they needed more instructors, more courses, and that sort of thing. And so one thing after another I, I got opportunities to reduce the handicaps income part. And then in their increasing my little, they helped me actually professionally. Then I went to them, then I had had the gentleman from the Middle East, I wanted to Well, that's because I was interested in international experience. I didn't realize that that was so crucial for social science, university, Washington being one of the first you know, field experimental, social science departments, you know, with Lundberg there. He was the leading Ken sciency was sort of viewpoint. And we're gonna we're gonna be more scientific. He was the leading advocate. And I liked his viewpoint. And so I was strongly in that view. But I wanted to get to international experiments, too. I didn't realize how, how limiting sociality, sociology would have been without international experience. Because our our sociology based on our field experiments are all American experience, urban experience, even. And we can, we would have been way off generalizing to social conditions elsewhere. And so I was lucky to get international opportunities, I found out right away that I can, I'm going to have difficulty getting international experience because I can't teach in anything except English. Even in Japanese, I can't teach in Japanese because I don't know Japanese, professionally. I don't know that I don't have the vocabulary. And but I found the American University of Beirut, just like a regular American University, system and everything. So not only the language, but the system was the same. And they gave me the appointment a year in advance. That's good. I got a whole year to finish my degree thesis at that point. And then they said, they put some pressure on me. They said, We want you a year earlier. I said why? They said, Well, we dismiss someone. And we need to fill this position. And we'd like you to come in, come in. I said, Well, you know, I I just got my master's degree, and I've got my PhD, examination finished, except for the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=314.0,524.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: dissertation. And so I gotta get on with it. Finish it. I don't want to go halfway around the world. Without that, you know, it's just that I knew I was delayed in getting my degree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=525.0,541.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It's hard to start a teaching position and never finish your district.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=542.0,545.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, I didn't realize how important that decision was. But I said, I can't go. I don't want to go that far without my degree. And when I got there with my degree, I talked him out of it, but I had to, I had to work up because he kept pressuring me. And finally, I wanted to accommodate them, but I just didn't want to go without my degree. So then finally took a wild guess that if you could, if you could survive the first semester, something outcome for second semester, and I thought, by that time, maybe I could speed up my thesis. Man, I don't know how I did it, but I did it. And I went in here And when I got there, they had survived with people off the streets and teaching and so on. And then graduate students. Yeah. And the teaching. Yeah. Some people we've been, we've been through their program. And, and so when I got there, somebody said, you know, you got up, you just got your PhD, how does it feel to be called professors on? So I said, it sounds good says yeah, but you just got your doctorate. And nobody calls you a doctor to call a professor. That's more important that, you know, not everybody can be a professor, but a lot of people with PhDs or some other doctorates. So it turned out that way, and then it turned out that there were so many people all but the thesis out there. And then some of them ended up that way. Because it got harder and harder to finish up. The committees have to be reformed. They didn't sell us had to brush up on something that requirements change the kinds of difficulties. And I didn't realize I was just trying to train not to have that hanging over without realizing all the ramifications that I avoided with speeding it up. So I was lucky, it was just pure luck. Then I then I taught at Cairo after a route, which helped me a lot in terms of Middle East perspective, because each place thinks of themselves as the center of Western contact for Middle East Studies. And each had their reasons. Cairo as a political center. embassies were all located in Cairo, and others were reporting through Cairo, then then in rapid order, each of those major cities became centers for ambassadors on their own right. So that developed so I was there in the threshold of those things. So that I kind of drainage about kinds of things as a result of that, and then having a broader picture of Middle East influence and the Western influence in the Middle East. More realistically than just that one. One senators experience. Have you seen these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=546.0,787.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: newsletters that were produced in the camp up in Tucson? We want to be sure that you wrote, are they publishing that when you were there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=788.0,799.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, I don't know. I think that was Bill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=800.0,805.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Started making that so it was probably just after you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=806.0,811.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What do you mean? Oh, is this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=812.0,813.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that's for you? That's that was the newspaper, the newsletter that the prisoners were making in the camp, but I think it started just after you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=814.0,822.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, you mean here? Yes. Not? minute. Okay. Location. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=823.0,828.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the prison.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=829.0,829.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, I see. Oh, gee, thank","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=830.0,832.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you guys had ones that they had mailed to relatives. To us. We make copies for everybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=833.0,839.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, good. Thank you. Got a lot to read. Just starting to read. The Oh, that one? Yeah. The ethnicity. 101. Is she lifted? Good. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=840.0,863.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I can't believe you didn't have a did she sign it for you? No, of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=864.0,869.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Mary, she said. She just put a note saying. I just saw her about it yesterday. I said, Gee, I just saw this thing. That's only two years ago. How come I didn't hear about it. Then she said, Well, you should have gotten one two years ago. But she said they've already signed preliminary contracts. for revision, I mean, reprinting, and she said, they've done quite a bit of work on editing on their own. This is not from a professional editor, this is what we decide if we're going to have it done over we got to make certain revisions ourselves. So they've updated things. And then she said, probably will get a lot more critiques from professional editors. So that's coming off but that's going to be a little while before they raise the money and before the I said, if you're gonna get the University of Washington to do it, get Bill Gates to drop in a few crumbs, you know, doesn't hurt him at all. He's looking for places to donate money that's for sure. Yeah. So how if I when I get there I mentioned that they've done a tremendous job of getting sources you know, and including clips and cuts and so on as well as just the variety of things that just listing those as difficulty and they got them with the copies you know, together that's what I was amazed at looking at and I didn't think I'd give you know as to when I was regarding the auto print now. They gave a free","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=870.0,996.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Good thing you knew the author's no kidding Yeah. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=997.0,1000.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I just happened to be there last night when they were she was there and I said she was she was so happy that I want it so badly. But I I said if you if you run across any in the file somewhere save it for me and I was I was gonna wait for the next copy. I'm I was glad that you know they would be prized by other people to get their source like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=1001.0,1037.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725#t=1038.0,1040.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/229/collection_resources/72849/file/158725/transcript/46436/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/436/original/azu_ms390_05_side2_a.vtt?1689800102","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/046/436/original/azu_ms390_05_side2_a.vtt?1689800102"}]}]}]}