{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/7659c6th3d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Raymond (Ray) Turner interview"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Diamente, Daniel (interviewer)","Fornander, David (interviewer)","Turner, R. M. (Raymond M.) (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2003 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona (spatial)","21st Century (temporal)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes, interview 13"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audiocassettes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS397.013 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Landscape architecture","Landscapes -- Arizona -- Tucson Region -- Pictorial works","Oral history -- Arizona","Urban beautification -- Arizona -- Tucson"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["interview"]}}],"summary":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes, interview 13"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms397-013_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2670.3183,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/243/841/original/azu_ms397-013_side1_a.mp3?1719857185","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2670.3183,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841/transcript/70136","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Raymond (Ray) Turner transcript, side 1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841/transcript/70136/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Unknown Speaker  0:04  \r\nOral History, interview with Ray Turner,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  0:06  \r\ndone by Danielle demente and David ferlander. Today is Wednesday, September 17,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  0:13  \r\n4pm let's\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  0:18  \r\nanswer your question about how we are in we're helping do a study to try to get an oral history developed of the arboretum and get a take on the, I guess, on the value of the open spaces and the value of the arboretum to the students, or to actually, any residents of the area. It's\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  0:39  \r\nquite an overall opportunity of the whole UAE campus plans. Campus landscape and what's happened in the past, to put all that information together to see where it is now and what's being done. So we wanted to come in to talk to you then, because we understand you've had a\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  1:00  \r\nmajor role. Well, not really. I came to the campus in 1954 and for the first two years, I was in the agronomy and Range Management Department. And when I applied for the job, it was botany and range ecology. But by the time I got there, the ecology stood off, I stayed there for two years, and then an opening came in the botany department. That's where I really wanted to be, and so I left my first job two years and switched the Bonnie department. So I was in botany from 60 some, from 56 to 62 at which point I worked\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  1:49  \r\nwith USGS. I stayed on campus and left campus, went up to the desert lab on two mock Hills, which is also University in 76\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  2:07  \r\nand retired in 89 so had a long term association with the University, although, so I do have some acquaintance with the old campus,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  2:21  \r\nbut I'm not sure I'm gonna be very\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  2:26  \r\nhelpful. That quad area that's now grassy, had a lot of cacti and wasn't awfully well. Kept a lot of chollas, and they're hard for the groundskeeper to rake around. It was never very good looking, but I sure needed to get turning along.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  2:48  \r\nWell, we kind of got a brief overview of how arboretum or the botanical areas on campus evolve, but can you kind of give us your general overview? Because it started initially, as it was the first designated land heritage. What's the term for it? For the state, the university had to start funding to look at a native species or potential growth in the area.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  3:20  \r\nWell, when you came in, who were you working with? And\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  3:23  \r\nyou you worked you said in the agronomy and Range Management.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  3:28  \r\nWere you working with Warren Jones at that time? No, he wasn't on campus, okay, but it was for the head of the department. Was Dean McAllister, when I was working with Robert Humphrey, who was\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  3:49  \r\na Range Management Specialist, was on\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  3:54  \r\ncampus, fellow range ecologist, wrote books, but then, then I after two years, and I went to the other department\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  4:02  \r\nand Calder Phillips was head of body,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  4:10  \r\nand Charles Mason was even a federally dated. Her very money became eco Mason's already\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  4:22  \r\nlearned selecting plants and seeing that they got planted on campus. I traveled with Warren Jones in Mexico, Baja, California,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 5  4:42  \r\nand Sonora on trips, and he\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  4:50  \r\nwas just a very\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  4:52  \r\nimpressive person would recognize a lot of the trees and the shrubs from the long distance. Didn't eat flowers and fruits. And\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  5:05  \r\ndid you bring seeds back from this chapter?\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  5:08  \r\nI probably brought mainly crust plants, but he would bring he'd bring seeds back. I was always collecting data, distribution data for various plants for the book that we published called Sonora desert\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  5:29  \r\nplants. So\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  5:31  \r\nwe started that in 1963\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  5:37  \r\nour mode of operation would be to go to Mexico, law, California, Sonora, and go on the back roads and stop every five miles by odometer and make a species list to collect plants. So I subjected more into this many\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  5:56  \r\nmiles, you said? Subjected into it?\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  6:00  \r\nWell, yeah, I think that. I think the trips, I don't remember, sure, the trips that\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  6:09  \r\nhe was on, I think I probably sponsored them. Did\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  6:16  \r\nyou take? He went over to the Middle East, the opportunity?\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  6:20  \r\nYes, but I never spent quite a bit of time in Africa. There this summer, the university had a lot of activity, better\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  6:42  \r\ntraining. So\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  6:42  \r\nhow far south did\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  6:43  \r\nyou go into Mexico, environment\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  6:48  \r\nin Baja California, clear to the tip of the and then we went off the way south.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  7:05  \r\nNow. So just is that the extent geographically, where the Sonoran desert ecosystem ends, or how far does that\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  7:11  \r\ngo? It doesn't quite make it into Sinaloa, a lot of Eastern Sonora. So\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  7:30  \r\nor routes where area of coverage are shortages. I\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  7:43  \r\nAnd would you ever run any trouble bringing press plants or seeds back?\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  7:50  \r\nThat was that an issue wasn't much of it much trouble. We would often have to leave the plant presses with the folks at the border so they could limit another they said they fumigated. I think they just heated them up, and\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  8:14  \r\nthen we'd have to back down. Was it just the two of you? Yeah, I've got a\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  8:35  \r\nneat picture.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  8:39  \r\nYeah, we can find it afterwards. Okay, so\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  8:40  \r\nwhat other sort of projects are involved\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  8:46  \r\nwith that related to the campus\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  8:55  \r\nthere I used, I used to have my students incology. Have a study of tree growth, radio growth. I had done this for my PhD. It was just a whole had an interesting but we set up stations on number of the trees around campus so students will go out once a week early in the morning, a special micrometer\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  9:31  \r\nmake measurements.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  9:36  \r\nFollow that through the semester. It involved putting sinking three copper screws into the xylem, and those three screws to find a plane that wouldn't move as far as the park as the plane grew the park would get closer to that plane. We put the the. The micrometer on that plane sensitive. Nothing you can make. See big changes\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  10:10  \r\nthroughout the day, operational loss. It doesn't fit.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  10:22  \r\nLike that.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  10:24  \r\nYou, but no, I really haven't made any\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  10:35  \r\nuses. Have you been over to the campus often? Or do you when you go back, do you recognize any areas that were planted when you were around, or maybe older growth is still around that have been\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  10:51  \r\naround for a while? Of course, the public road along the park has been there a long time. And one thing I remember about that we had a winter with a lot of snow, broke the branches on most of the trees. Do you\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  11:07  \r\nremember when that went and I don't remember,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  11:11  \r\nI don't whether I would have a picture.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  11:18  \r\nI think you can find out. Warren broke a lot of trees around town that didn't evolve under the snow. For all, it was no snow.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  11:42  \r\nWas that\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  11:43  \r\nthat fish pond is in that area, also right?\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  11:46  \r\nWas that dealing fish pond by all made, no, not by all, made by\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  11:53  \r\nthe by the conifer girl, I think, is that over here on Park I can't\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  12:02  \r\nis it? What around Second\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  12:10  \r\nStreet? Yeah, so\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  12:10  \r\nthe island Grove is run\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  12:14  \r\nnorth south, along Park\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  12:17  \r\nfrom about second to university. Well goes beyond University.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  12:25  \r\nWere you involved at all in the debate of when they just recently moved the cactus\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  12:31  \r\ngarden? Well, I followed the threat to move the cereal. That didn't take place. Have you been\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  12:52  \r\ninvolved in the other changes going on on campus? I up near the desert,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  13:05  \r\nat the Desert lab. I retired from there in 1989 stayed on, went up there daily for another three years, then really retired and working\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  13:18  \r\nout. So he used it. We're first there in 54 and then, when most of the plantings and stuff were going on at that time, were they pretty I mean, were the plantings adapted to try to fit into the arid landscape of the desert? Because you were saying that they turned the whole thing or the mall to grass. But what was the direction that everything was heading with it to try to keep native plants to be in sync with the habitat that we're in, or was it trying to cultivate more of a wetter Mediterranean, California type of campus,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  13:53  \r\nmaybe eastern US? I think putting that grass in suggests that people were people were not very cognizant of how this time it is. Of course, the university had its own set of wells. I don't know. Maybe it still does, but they flood, irrigate, low burns around the grass and just turn that water on and shut it we turn that water on and shut it very wasteful water. But I think I feel that they probably were doing this with the interest of students in mind. Students like to lie around on the grass couldn't very well do\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  14:50  \r\nthat. I remember, I guess it's where the shots building is. That's where they were very i.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  15:04  \r\nHorticulture. It had a\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  15:15  \r\nlot of\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  15:22  \r\nNavy. Native things as well as fantasy.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  15:34  \r\nBut it wasn't attractive, sort of a punch pause, but I enjoyed\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  15:39  \r\nit. And the shots, building was built. Do you know when that went up? Did they move everything out,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  15:45  \r\nor did they destroyed the whole garden? They didn't replant\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  15:52  \r\nit? What do you know about the\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  15:59  \r\nkind of day you know about the present\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  16:05  \r\nday? Not very much. I went to the opening campus, and\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  16:19  \r\nI've had one other sort of contact with\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  16:33  \r\nat any rate,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  16:35  \r\nwhen I was in Kenya, I was working with a to the Kenyan citizen for his parents, but he spent a lot of time in the US, and he was over here a couple years ago. And this is Martin and my friend Jonah Western have spent a lot of time capped out on their vacation in Kenya called a fever vacation. Example, floating and Oh, Acacia. So they went down great, big tree. It's near for and this got the label on it. Example, pH is\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  17:22  \r\nlinear. Jonas said, That's not so I learned of this only this summer when I was in Kenya chatting with him. And so as soon as I got back, I went down there and looked at it, and I have a key to the cases of Kenya. It doesn't quite work out, but we really need to see this flower, so waiting till spring and still label the cases. Oh, yeah. And I called whatever they make, but I called her and related this to her. She said, this is sort of a booster child advertisements. And so she's pretty anxious to know what its true identity is, if it's not Santa Claus, one of two others, but they look an awful lot of life, even down to the yellow bark.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  18:29  \r\nHow was he able to determine that it wasn't\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  18:33  \r\nit may have been in the correct time of year, or he knows them so well, his life and the bark is different. On these three species, they all shed out of bark and reveal a sort of a yellowish bark underneath. But there's subtle differences. I think maybe it was the bark, maybe the leaves too, but I don't this book I have has drawings of all of these plants and drawings on the leaves.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  19:02  \r\nSo next spring will\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  19:06  \r\ndo critical work. I haven't gotten there somebody might have identified on campus. Have you\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  19:19  \r\nseen this? You're welcome for\r\n\r\nSpeaker 6  19:26  \r\nthe Arboretum. The director's name is, actually, yeah,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  19:42  \r\nexactly. So how do they? Things changed in the thinking of how things work? And\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  19:50  \r\nthen I ran on campus. Since you've been there, I really haven't had close ties\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  19:55  \r\nwith what's been going on. I.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  20:00  \r\nWarren Jones, of course, very close to this and another person. He was a student here Chinese left top in the Midwest for long time and came back. He lives in town, but he is responsible for getting some of the acacias.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  20:39  \r\nI don't know what his health is. I lost trichome. It's T, I, E, N, and\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  20:45  \r\nanother word, W, E, I, A, N, G,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  20:54  \r\nM, i, o, I'm not sure there.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  21:04  \r\nI have to prepare you, because he had\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  21:10  \r\nsome negative hits and fights for the university over some creosote bushes, the garden, the garden, the the agricultural I guess Steve McLaughlin, so he may not run tough, probably doesn't like\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  21:41  \r\nyeah, there's two way, 326, 8694,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  21:54  \r\nnow are any occasion native in This area?\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  21:58  \r\nOh, yeah, it's not as many as I to\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  22:21  \r\ngo farther into Mexico to get that. And one more. There's one in Kenya, in Africa\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  22:32  \r\nthat's even more sufficient for panelobium. But at any rate, spies or spines sweat off the base I don't know whether the ants make that, or whether it's each one of those globular swellings is calling the events Anytime giraffe or something emit\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  23:01  \r\nan odor. So drive gets about one bite.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  23:11  \r\nDo you still work with the lab a lot then, well,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  23:18  \r\ncollaborating with folks that are housed at the building on\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  23:34  \r\nsix USGS.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  23:41  \r\nI do a lot of mesh photography, and that's where our archive is\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  23:50  \r\non campus, stored up to maps,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  23:54  \r\nand I have studies, long term studies, going on. Box.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  24:11  \r\nYes, the US, I was with the USGS, and I took my people up there in 76 so there's one building, more\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  24:24  \r\nthan one building, that has USGS personality, interesting collaboration. It's primarily with the geoscience, biological\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  24:42  \r\nand is\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  24:44  \r\nthere any link with the desert lab in the\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  24:48  \r\nArboretum historical now, can't think of any. I.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  25:06  \r\n19 three Carnegie Institution\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  25:17  \r\nof Washington, and it was continued under Carnegie's control till the 19th. 30s, depression was involved anyway, they decided to give it up in the Forest Service and had it\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  25:42  \r\nrough. Good story\r\n\r\nSpeaker 8  25:56  \r\nabout your trip. I was\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  26:10  \r\nthere a certain time of year that he would do him in order to get the\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  26:13  \r\nplan well, in order to avoid the heat? We go in the fall, there were times when I did go down there in the rainy season,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  26:31  \r\nSonora and rivers have come up.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  26:41  \r\nOctober, I remember that\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  26:44  \r\nWarren always slept because of travel.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  26:58  \r\nSedan. It's more substantial, you'd always sleep cross lines there maybe the most he didn't have money, the UA support,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  27:19  \r\nthe troops. I pictures,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  27:23  \r\nI don't know, we always kept out. So nothing. You didn't like to sleep on the ground. So\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  27:34  \r\nwere you? Did you get over when you did your collecting? You were in Bahasa. Did you do any most of it was a collecting plants in the desert. Or did you get on the coast and collect any coastal species?\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  27:47  \r\nOr, well, yeah, except the desert goes right down the North West. Can you get to a\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  28:10  \r\nso but we collected everywhere, and\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  28:14  \r\nall of the samples that you\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  28:18  \r\ncollected are still at the university. I university, you said that Warren brought back seeds, and you didn't bring back any\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  28:29  \r\nseeds or plant anything. Sure, I brought some seeds back for use for war. But there was a time when you could even bring gluten free world.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  28:52  \r\nI brought back Sarah. We had one private somebody stole it when I planted another one and a house would have known.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  29:11  \r\nLeft, there were eight of those planted\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  29:12  \r\noriginally on the campus.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  29:22  \r\nI I've just been, actually just been working on the study of this involved California, Steve Bullock, and they don't live as long as Cardinal, but nor do they live as long as earlier workers suggest Bob Humphrey and his son Alan, wrote a paper\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  29:50  \r\non this article,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  29:59  \r\nsure I could put. Hands on it.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  30:09  \r\nIt's just been submitted to a journal. You'd be welcome\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  30:18  \r\nto read it, aren't they? I I can try the\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  30:27  \r\nDarcy. It specifically mentions that the agent to reach that I have, I\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  30:53  \r\nI think that mentions in there we found most, most of that space on mass photographs in Baja, California. This is a sort of presentation where we actually matched photos throughout the West, and often there are more than one photo, more than one photo, we have several 100 photographs taken exactly the same place, and we can see how many pollutions have died, how many humans have come in. The same with the Cardo, we found that for cereal, cereal is much\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  31:42  \r\nits population changes much more than that, shorter\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  31:47  \r\nthan there is. It is\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  31:51  \r\nprobably not a serious thing.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  31:55  \r\nOne of the important points of this is that there are efforts to use serial commercial, unless you break them up UK, just various things. So there's a\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  32:20  \r\nand various things. So there's a temp to do that. But anyway, I think two or three reviews my wife\r\n\r\nSpeaker 6  32:42  \r\nmentioned it. Campus\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  32:53  \r\nor nothing that just spring is right into\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  32:57  \r\nthat question that's I\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  33:07  \r\nthank you for taking the time. Wish I could have been more help. You were a lot of help. It's very\r\n\r\nSpeaker 1  33:13  \r\ngood information that we want to put together and be able to use show people that have history. What\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  33:31  \r\nshall be able to have history. Yeah, leave me your address, okay, I got a chance to bury him today. We'll\r\n\r\nSpeaker 6  33:42  \r\nmake I'd love to\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  33:58  \r\nsee some of those\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  34:02  \r\nphotos trips. Actually make a note on that same piece of paper, looking for I think, I think the border. I\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  34:36  \r\nWhat were you not doing at the herbarium today?\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  34:39  \r\nI was actually at the USGS office park. I had just been up in Utah matching photos. I matched them last in 1968 so I went back to quite a few of the same sites on this trip. And so I had i. Old, probably 100 files of Utah photos before we went up there five days, not knowing just where we wouldn't be anyway. So we matched a lot of\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  35:18  \r\nelevator there's any match photos at the university. Or any of those\r\n\r\nSpeaker 2  35:24  \r\nland areas they had some we were looking at sure is that the book on the\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  35:41  \r\nagriculture college, agriculture college, yeah,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  36:00  \r\ns jam hours lived in California, they had a big flood near House, and her friend of me swept away in floodwater. She jumped in to save her.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  36:30  \r\nSo that's me and her names.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  36:43  \r\nBurgess, Martha. That's in Baja. So this is, this was taken by she took it. She\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  36:56  \r\nhad the negative music.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  37:01  \r\nYeah, I'm sure Lydia would be really interested in having copyright if I could take it into\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  37:13  \r\nher I can do that\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  37:18  \r\nworks. You ought to check this method.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  37:21  \r\nI Martha Ames merges her to seek to get permission to use it and see if she goes by and\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  37:38  \r\nthis is her no, she took a picture. So that's, that's Jen Bowers, okay.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  37:49  \r\nSonoran Desert,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  38:01  \r\nI'm not sure that one did, but throughout easting and I started going down in 63 month, in October, 6364 and then I think Sonora from 65 back to Sonora,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  38:21  \r\nour first,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  38:23  \r\nfirst edition of the changing lab came out was\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  38:28  \r\nthe dedication\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  38:31  \r\nto my wife, abandoned life For\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  38:35  \r\na whole month. I don't schedule every October I schedule.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  38:43  \r\nEvery October,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  38:45  \r\ndid she ever go ahead? Yeah, she did on one trip. Fact, it was she was not on the whole trip. She was working at times. She took a week off and Carl Hodges started environmental research labs.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  39:05  \r\nRichland. He was a pilot Los Angeles Bay, and we met them there, and she witnessed to change.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  39:17  \r\nBut that was the first year of the Mohawk well. 1009 and we kept pretty close to La Paz, and they were taking a very serious route. There was still no payroll, terrible road. We knew that it was going on,\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  39:38  \r\nso we got into La Paz late at night, who came before we got into town, came to a big arm was across the road, and it was the end of the race. I.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  40:00  \r\nSo and we got into town, we couldn't get into a hotel. Participants\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  40:08  \r\nin this, observers, anyway, we that was kind of funny. You.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  40:25  \r\nShe, I bet it's one of these two. M's.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 3  40:33  \r\nNo address for one, but you want to try to find her name again, Martha. Martha was married to Burgess for Bob, but they divorced Burgess,\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:01  \r\nso we'll talk to her to\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:15  \r\nand So we'll talk to\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:18  \r\nher, yeah, I mean, she's\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:22  \r\nme. She's an artist. She was working.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:40  \r\nWell, thanks again.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:41  \r\nYou're welcome. Again.\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  41:49  \r\nWelcome, and let's see you can take that as I get back and but you wanted another\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  41:57  \r\nphoto. We you mentioned the photos\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  42:02  \r\nthe photos.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  42:04  \r\nSo do you get out the field much anymore? For six weeks in Kenya, we were out virtually every day. And then before that and after that, I've been working with the Office of\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  42:26  \r\nparadigms research.\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  42:28  \r\nMarvin Harpers, he did his\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  42:34  \r\nPhD dissertation\r\n\r\nSpeaker 7  42:36  \r\non working for me, USGS on study of how long would it take these abandoned farmlands out in the valley that the city bought up in the 70s, how long it takes to return to desert? And the city had just started buying these up in the 70s, and found Martin so he studied 81 sites from Aqua Road, Navin Valley up to Western Phoenix, many of which had just been abandoned after being irrigated. A few had been abandoned for 30 or 40 years already, scenario programs and so that was his PhD dissertation. He's worked at para lands since, and now he has a student working at PhD following up. And so they've gone out and made all the critical, detailed, quantitative measures of plants. And I took pictures before and some went out this time. We took two pictures in each one of these difficult finding some of the places we left, a lot of stakes in the ground, but then various\r\n\r\nSpeaker 4  44:00  \r\nthings. I just got back from Mexico. We're down on ranches north\r\n\r\nUnknown Speaker  44:15  \r\nof Canada, Mexico. Get out of your hair. Nice meeting you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130446/file/243841#t=0.0,2670.3183"}]}]}]}