{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/3b5w66b71t/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Jonathan Clark"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright The Arizona Board of Regents.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection interview 41\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS533.041 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Documented Border collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2014-08-19 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["interview"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Mexico","temporal; 21st Century"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Censorship--Mexico--History--21st century","Freedom of the press--Mexico--History--21st century","Human rights--Mexico","Journalism--Mexico--21st century","Journalists--Mexico--Crimes against","Women journalists--Mexico"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["The Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection, MS 533"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Gonzalez de Bustamante, Celeste (interviewer)","Clark, Jonathan (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection interview 41\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright The Arizona Board of Regents.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms533_041_a.mp3"]},"duration":993.24,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/684/original/azu_ms533_041_a.mp3?1676505980","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":993.24,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Jonathan Clark transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SUMMARY KEYWORDS\n\nborder, reporter, story, work, minutemen, covered, people, positions, news, informal, coming, challenge, journalists, newspaper, cochise county, mexico, talked, line, preconceived notions, nogales","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=994.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's probably to your advantage maybe. Great story. So, we just covered talked a little bit about gender also wanted to ask you about social media use your news organizations use of it and or your thought the following of social media across the border and whether you use social media at all for any aspects of news gathering,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=3600.0,3625.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for news gathering? Sure. It's not a primary source of news gathering for us. But I certainly do keep an eye on Twitter and what is going on across the line. And not necessarily for for border, you know, traditional border stories, but lately, we've been having a lot of flooding and Twitter has been very useful for the flooding stories, people post photos, or they talked about, you know, this neighborhood is cut off or, and so, you know, we certainly use it. But I still think just getting out there being around talking to people, that's where these story ideas really come up. I'm bit I guess, a bit of a traditionalist that way, because I still believe in just getting good sources and, and walking around and talking to people and just keeping your eyes open as sort of the best way to, to know what's going on. But also just to see things that are going to pique your own interest, like, Hey, what the heck is at that? Or, you know, that might be an interesting story topic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=3625.0,3713.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Can you tell us a little bit about your view about someone right out of school coming down to the border to work? Are there any, do you have any suggestions or views on whether you would recommend that or not, or what you would recommend someone come prepared with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=3713.0,3733.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, obviously, anybody coming down would need to speak Spanish, not just to report across the line, but even reporting in US border communities, when we advertise for reporter positions, we, we we say that Spanish speaking ability is strongly preferred. And it would, it would be very difficult for us to hire somebody in a news position that didn't have some Spanish speaking ability, especially since we are trying to or one of our goals is to try to tell more of the stories of the average people working class low income people in those are, in a lot of cases are going to be the new immigrants that haven't mastered English yet. So it's very important that you speak the language, I also would just really recommend that you try to eliminate any preconceived notions you have about the border, right? We have a lot of people that come in they they find to do their story, and they pretty much already decided, you know, here's, here's the lead of my story. Now, I'm going to go and get the evidence that supports the lead of my story. And I see this especially from international journalists you know, they've they've decided in, in Switzerland or in Germany, that they want to write the story about the kk k in Minutemen lynching and murdering migrant babies in the desert in Arizona. And then they come here, you know, want to know if I can help them get that story. So I think it's really, it's really hard to understand the border from a distance. So don't come down and try to write your Pulitzer Prize winning stories right away, come down, and, and really, you really need to get a feel for what's going on. And the other very important thing to keep in mind with the border is that there are so many different perspectives on border stories. Some of the perspectives might seem a little bit ugly or repulsive to you, but they're, but they can still be legitimate. And, you know, sometimes when there's a when there's a big problem that the government just seems to refuse to address. It makes people very angry, and I think it polarizes people even more, and it really hardens people's positions. And so that's an important thing. to keep in mind and I can say that from experience coming to cover the, the Minutemen you know, I had some preconceived notions of what the Minutemen were going to be about when I actually met some of the people in the in the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. They didn't seem to be bad people, certainly they, they did attract some bad people, and some of them are either in prison or facing some serious felony charges right now. But a lot of the the the average people that get involved, I found them to be somewhat the sympathetic and some of the more hardline ranchers and other folks that I met in Cochise County, once I was able to sort of break down the barrier there, and really understand where they were coming from. It really changed my perspective as well. There was one rancher who had who had invited the Minutemen to come and build a fence on his property, and he was very loud, complaining about the problems with illegal immigration. And he was sort of seen as a as a villain by by people in the, in some of the humanity, more humanitarian organizations. And I ended up spending some time with the guy and he ended up being like one of my favorite people that I met over there. And so you do have to really give people a chance and you know, don't jump to conclusions. People may say some inflammatory things, because they're very upset with it. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they're, that they're a bad person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=3733.0,4016.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you. In interviewing people in the different communities along the border, we've we've talked to journalists in some communities where they're sort of that there have been no relationships among journalists on on the north and south side of the border. And in some cases, journalists, which would share video or share or even news tips, particularly in Mexican cities or towns, where news couldn't be reported. Have you seen anything like that here? Or in maybe you could talk a little bit about your colleagues and in in Mexico, do you interact with them at all or much?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4016.0,4058.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, we have a very close working relationship with one of the radio stations over there, Hani XE and why and in particular with with a reporter say SAR Batroun. So you know, he's very interested in news, it's happening on this side of the border. And so we help him gather information or explain but context to some of the things that are happening here. We share photos with him. And then likewise, he's very good about giving us a heads up, hey, this, here's something that's going on, or, you know, he shares photos with us, He gives us tips that we can then follow up on this side. So sometimes it is a case where there he hears something, but he doesn't quite have the sources to flesh the story out. So we'll work together in more of a collaborative way. Honestly, like that, and then other times, it's just, we have something we share it with him, he's he's got a story, he shares it with us. We've had other stories where we've done split by lines, or reporter and say, Sir, where he's been able to get some information across the line. And then we add that into a story that we've been pursuing from the site as well. And again, like you know, like I said, logistically, it can be really difficult. We want to send a reporter you know, three miles south of here to do a story but we but there's that port of entry to deal with coming back in so it makes a big difference to have somebody across the line that we can count on and say sir, you know, can you get us you get a photo of this or you get any information on this or so yeah, it's it's very helpful. And you know, and I have good relations with with other reporters we don't work quite too closely with other people but you know, if I go to two event across them, and I'm going to see four or five people that I know and we're going to share some information and the same thing when I worked in Cochise County I worked very closely there's there's a guy Rubin and he no runoff, I'm sorry, who, who published a little totally like DIY community newspaper, and Naco, Sonora and he was very very, very helpful with me. And also the local, I was pretty good friends with a reporter for LM parcial, who's based out of work, we get there for a while, and he helped me a lot as well. So it really is a great resource to have people across the line not only just to help with information, but also just to explain stuff to you, like, you know, what the, what the heck are they talking about in this in this story? Or who is this guy give me the backstory on this character who suddenly in the news? And you know, and I think that we provide the same service to them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4058.0,4237.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Great, are those largely informal relationships are contractual or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4237.0,4242.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you don't have any, any contractual relationship? So it is informal? And you know, sometimes, you know, it would be a newspaper will call us up and say, can we use this bit of information? Or, and again, it's never like, okay, but you need to, you're gonna need to fill this form out for us. This is a guy. Yeah, go ahead. And with the understanding that, at some point, we're going to ask them to return the favor. So it's very informal, but it works well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4242.0,4268.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In just wrapping up, it just could you talk tell us a little bit about what you think of the future of border reporting? Maybe say the next five or 10 years in the area?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4268.0,4281.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I think I mean, it's obviously going to they're going to be a lot of challenges to reporting on the border. As larger newspapers, contract their newsrooms, I think that those positions are the ones that are I mean, already, who has anybody on the board, you know, the Arizona Republic used to have a reporter based in in Nogales in now, you know, the star border reporter works out of Tucson and the Republic covers the border out of Phoenix. And, you know, I can't imagine trying to cover the The Arizona state legislature from Nogales, right? If I were, you need to be where the where the story is at. So I think the challenge is, this is going to be dictated by the economics of the of the industry and even small papers. The service Herald laid off a couple early LASIK, a couple of positions a year ago in January. And one of the people that was laid off was their border reporter, the guy who took it took my job when I left, so they don't have a dedicated border reporter anymore. And you know, that's just one less person out there telling all of these stories from where it's happening. And it's just not the same to hear about something from Tucson or Phoenix or Dallas, or Houston, and then to fly down to the border to fill in the blanks, you really need to be there. Or you need to be spending a considerable amount of time. At the borders, I think that's going to be the challenge for border reporting. In the US media, obviously, the challenges across the line are a bit more scary. You know how to cover what's really going on without putting your life in danger or putting your, your your staff in danger, because it's not just the reporters who get punished. It can be the receptionist or the or the photographer or the the ad salesman so. And it's tough, you know, how are you going to clean up corruption without a free press exposing it? But how can a free press expose corruption if they can be killed with impunity for doing it? And so that's just an immense challenge for for border journalism and in Mexico.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4281.0,4460.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you. Is there anything did you want to add anything or?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4460.0,4467.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think we've pretty much covered covered everything. The no thanks for for taking the interest. And for reading the news, Alison.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4467.0,4482.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just I don't know if we covered this, but do we get your education background and you're age","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4482.0,4490.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"46 And you studied do we get that? Yeah, I studied. I studied psychology as an undergrad and I have a master's in history. I'm sorry. And I actually one thing I will add is that I have no formal education and in journalism. So I think that you know, I'm grateful that I've been able to get into this into this field. And I've been given opportunities based on what I could do rather than what particular degree I had or so, yeah, it's been it's been really interesting and a really interesting career turn, I never ever would have expected coming out of college that I would be covering border issues. I used to think about this a lot when I was in Mexico, like, wow, would I ever have imagined that I'd be in Mexico City, the managing editor of a national newspaper in Mexico, but it, it happens and, you know, there's a lot of opportunity. If you could do a good job, and there's a lot of opportunity to do a good job with with border issues. There's a lot of stories, a lot of good stories to be told. So. young journalists, you know, you can definitely make it happen if you've got a an eye for a good story and you've got the initiative to get out there and do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4490.0,4588.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684/transcript/41830/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you so much for your time. This was great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86435/file/174684#t=4588.0,993.24"}]}]}]}