{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/2f7jq0vd0v/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Robert Neuman"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection , MS 396, 2, tape 34"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Morris K. Udall Oral History Collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Ferdon, Julie (interviewer)","Neuman, Robert (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1999-03-08"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Washington D.C. (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history with Robert Neuman conducted by Julie Ferdon. Neuman was a journalist who worked for Morris Udall in 1974 as press secretary and helped to write statements and speeches."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio cassette"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS396.027 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Oral history with Robert Neuman conducted by Julie Ferdon. Neuman was a journalist who worked for Morris Udall in 1974 as press secretary and helped to write statements and speeches."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright held by University of Arizona Libraries."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms396-027_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2719.68,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/302/original/azu_ms396-027_side1_a.mp3?1744847837","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2719.68,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Okay, this is another in a series of oral histories that form the Morris K udah oral history project. I'm Julie for Don. It's Monday, March eight, and we're in the office of Robert Anthony Newman in Newman and company, 1317, F Street Northwest in Washington, DC. Bob, thank you very much for participating in this project. I want to just start out with a little bit of background information. You were born on August 4, 1939 correct, in Oakland, California, and went to San Jose University,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=0.0,37.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: San Jose State, then college, now, university. Oh, okay, what was your major? There?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=38.0,42.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Journalism,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=43.0,43.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: public affairs. Or actually, it was a kind of a public relations, journalism, advertising mixture, so there's an AB and something, I guess now, the public communications, that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=44.0,58.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: right, the General Communications. What did you do after college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=59.0,62.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I went and worked for some small newspapers and and had one brief stint in fundraising with what was then called the Radio Free Europe Fund, which I later learned was a CIA front. And my friends and teachers couldn't understand why, in going for a seemingly innocuous job of raising money for already a free Europe that they had to undergo all kinds of FBI field checks and this and that. And I should have been tipped off that it was a CIA front then. But then I worked for a couple of papers in the San Jose Oakland area, and I came back to Washington in 1968 with then Congressman Jerome Walde of Antioch, California, and I had covered him as a political writer and a city editor for the major newspaper in the district, the Contra Costa Times. And so I came back in December of 1968 and I worked for him for about five years, and then went to work for mo in November 74","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=63.0,120.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: how was it that you first got acquainted with Moe? The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=121.0,124.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: first time I actually met him was out at Dulles, where I had taken waldy out to make a plane for California. And we got there a little early and sat down and had a beer. And there was mo walking up. So Jerry invited him over, and this was probably 69, or 70, and I think he had just taken on the speaker. 1970 probably was. And most sat him down and said, Well, this is one of the bravest men in all of Washington. He not only has taken on the congressional leadership, but he is calling for population restraints, and has six children. And mo left, and we became acquainted there. And then Moe served on the post office and civil service committee, as did Jerry. It seemed to be a place where they would put renegades, and I met John Debussy and Terry Bracey and some other most staff, Dee Jackson, Monty kill all through the at that time, staff was smaller and everybody was a little cozier, and when we had joint projects together. We the staffs would work pretty closely together. So I met them and liked them all very much, especially John and he and I got along famously, and led to when they were considering the run for president. And were and OB and Henry Royce were circulating petitions. They invited some staff, people that they knew, to come to a meeting, I think was May or June of 74 and I went along, and they made a pitch about a man from the house running for the presidency. I was, frankly, very skeptical of it, although I liked and admired Mo, and they invited me back to a couple more meetings, and we sat down and I wrote some memos as press strategies and things like that. And when my tiger waldy decided to leave the Congress, Terry and John asked if I would consider coming to work with Moe as press secretary and as Press Secretary Work on the formative part of what was to be a presidential campaign. I jumped at the chance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=125.0,269.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were you hired then as press secretary for the congressional officer for the not for the campaign? There","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=270.0,274.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was nobody hired yet for the campaign. It was, I think laws were a little more liberal there you could do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=275.0,282.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: but it was on your own time when you could do some campaign work, and they would detail people off onto campaign payrolls, and while they were so they could do work there, things were a little more relaxed then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=283.0,296.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you also do speech writing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=297.0,300.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: When I came on board with with Mo, the first project I had was it was not an easy one was to work on a statement and an issue paper on the issue of bussing, which was controversial in Tucson at the time. This was, I think, before the 74 election, I was, I was doing a little moonlighting for him while we're still working for waldy, who I worked for through November 74 so that was my first project. It was interesting. I worked for first time with Roger Lewis, and was very fond of him in his practical, common sense approach to to issues, and would find him in contrast to Bracey and cabosi, who were kind of the more aggressive on the cutting edge politically, and Roger was kind of a restraining figure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=301.0,356.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: By by November of 74 Mo, had announced for for the candidacy for the presidency. How did he manage to keep up with his congressional duties during the time he was campaigning?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=357.0,372.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was very, very tiring when I first went to work for him, I guess they had planned the kickoff that was in New York and New Hampshire. And the whole point was to try to get on the front page of New York Times in order to get some credibility at this time. Mo was the quote, liberal front runner. End Quote, The first time I actually interviewed him with directly about when it worked for him. Was like in September, October, and we interrupted our interview to watch on television as Ted Kennedy withdrew from the race. The next time I talked to him about a serious offer to be made to me, we interrupted to watch Mondale drop it. So mo considered me to be good luck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=373.0,423.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Didn't help much with Brian Harris, though, did it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=424.0,426.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So what? How he kept a pace with his his we were straight and off. We were doing fundraising or doing speech writing, and then I got into this. But we did do some speech writing, but he had a staple of speechwriters who were very, very good. So very good and and they included nicks and Jessica and David Nix, yeah, and Jessica Tuckman and Bracey did speech writing as well. But I would do would be to condense the speeches the drafts were coming in and do some little editing and condense them into a press release and issue papers, one pagers, things like that that were on issues that that transcended congressional and political business. Really the Go back to your question about how he was able to do congressional work at the same time he was campaigning. The early effort required quite a bit of travel to do the seminal fund raising. We had to comply with a new law at the time, which required raising at least $5,000 in small donations in 20 states before you could qualify for matching funds. So the strategy was to go out and do that, which required quite a bit of travel. Mo would take these god awful flights and small planes and charters and scheduled airlines that would require him to go to New York and to Kansas and to North Carolina and Michigan and Wisconsin and then come back in time for business, for committee hearings on The votes. It was extraordinarily tiring on him, and then you can see it from the start that this was going to be take a lot of stamina and a lot of good luck to bear any fruit at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=427.0,528.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all. Did he miss a lot of votes during that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=529.0,531.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: time? Not really. No. I mean, he was really careful that the house had a pretty relaxed schedule that only votes really occurred on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Mondays and Fridays generally, were business that did not require a voting. So that would give him some flexibility","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=532.0,546.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: a long weekend. How would you sum up how the press felt about Moe as a legislator and as a campaigner at that point in time, in say, 74","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=547.0,565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, he had safely acquired a rare niche, and not that rare, but rare, somewhat rare. And Washington Prescott really did admire him, both for his wit and for his ability. Sometimes you'll get the press to admire you for one or the other, and it's rare that you get both. And he managed to do that, and I think that people had seen his courage and innovation in his legislative record and his willingness to take on the powers that be for leadership posts that. He didn't win, but that he took on as a reformer and as a liberal, and being a liberal from Arizona was also somewhat remarkable. Being a one eyed Mormon liberal from Arizona was even more so. And the fact that he could joke readily and that he returned his phone calls and did all the rudimentary things that established good preservations, and he didn't whine when he got an occasional bad story, though sometimes needed to be restrained from that. The first My recollection is that the first time that Noah met with all the high first rank class a political writers, was at an institution in Washington called the Sperling breakfast. Godfrey Sperling was the bureau chief for the Christian Science model there, and held us breakfast twice a week, in which notables would come and face the horrible breakfast of runny eggs and cold bacon and about 20 to 25 really, the A tier political press bureau chiefs and columnists. And what happened, Mo was invited for the first time. We did some preparation. We I gave them a list of who was there, and, you know, short thumbnail description afterwards, what they did and what they liked and what they liked and who they didn't like, and they were conservatives and Republican and Republican based guys. They're like Novak and whatever. But mo went there in my really fun he was introduced and made his opening perfunctory remarks on what he was doing and why he was doing it. And John Pearson of The Wall Street Journal said, Mr. Udall, you're known as a man of great intelligence and great wit with an enviable legislative record. My question is this, are you prick enough to be president? We all laughed. Moe laughed, and then responded with a couple of the cactus and caucus and The White Stallion. Stories that. So he had a, you know, a joke for every occasion, which why? The one reason why the press","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=566.0,725.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: which is, which is The White Stallion, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=726.0,731.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the political figure is, is invited to the Indian Reservation and to give a speech during the campaign. And he gives a great, great speech about how much you'll promise the Indians and this and that. And then he was offered a horse from the from the stable to and he and the and the chief of the tribe rode down the main street at the reservation, and to great applause from all all the Indians who were watching them. And the chief said to the to the politician, well, you can keep this nice merit and as a as a token of our esteem and good wishes. And the and the politician said, Why, Mr. Chairman, I think you must be mistaken. I think this horse is a stallion. So why is that? And the chief said, no, no, no, this horse is a mayor. Well, I distinctly heard somebody say, look at the big prick on that white horse. He's coming down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=732.0,797.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I forgotten that one,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=798.0,800.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and I must say it too, and that, out of sensitivity, that that mo would not tell a story like that in the presence of women. And at that time, the spreading Bucha did not have any women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=801.0,812.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Um, let's talk some specifically about the 76 campaign. Um, the first real test was Iowa, even though, up to then, the first world test had been New Hampshire. Iowa caucuses preceded that in 1976 and there was a fair amount of debate in Mo's headquarters or office regarding whether he should even compete in Iowa. I guess gabusi, I believe, was one who thought that Iowa would not really be the first test, and Jack Quinn was arguing that it would be. Do you remember any of that discussion even","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=813.0,853.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: before Jack Quinn, Ken Bode was on the staff. Ken Bode was from Iowa, was a veteran of the McGovern effort, as was a number of other people who looked at the McGovern model of 72 as being the one that we should take in that it was the road to credibility and absent that, that you would be in the Dark for the weeks prior to the New Hampshire primary, and that no one I'm paying any attention to. On the other side were those who argued that we didn't have the resources and Mo didn't have the time to effectively campaign in both places, and the chances were that that we could do one or the other, but not both, or we would lose both. It was a difficult, difficult decision, and there was compelling reasoning on both sides. So Moe did the usual Moe thing, and he tried to compromise do both. He He promised the people in line with he would make every effort and he would put as much resources as he had into into that. At the same time, he told people in New Hampshire that that that if he didn't score and and participate in the Iowa caucuses, that he wouldn't survive enough to to be a credible candidate in New Hampshire. And although a lot of people didn't agree with that, they understood his reasoning, and it caused a rift in the campaign,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=854.0,942.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and sort of from the outset, yeah, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=943.0,946.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it led to the campaign manager of the week. Phenomena that happened after that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=947.0,955.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did you go to Iowa? I did, in what capacity as as a press person,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=956.0,964.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you know, come to think of it, I went to Iowa, not, not in 74 No, I didn't go in 70 I did not go in 76 Dick stout was on the campaign staff, okay, and traveled with Mo as the press secretary on the campaign,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=965.0,980.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: okay, in Iowa, yeah, do you remember who covered mo from the national press in Iowa?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=981.0,995.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Linda Charlton of the New York Times was assigned to us, and we had a number of people from the post. Bill Peterson, I remember from the post, both of those people are now dead. Charlie Moore, the New York Times was, was also sent by the New York Times to cover us. He's also dead. I think when we saw we saw Broder all the time, and he was kind of stationed out there, but Bill Peterson kind of was a post guy who was with us. And we saw, of course, all the regulars from the papers, Curtis, Wilkie, Boston Globe, and John Margot of Chicago Tribune.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=996.0,1048.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Bob Chauvin, LA Times was a regular with us, and then we had a network crews that we had Bill plant, who, at that time had been was was stationed in Chicago for CBS, and he came with us","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1049.0,1074.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: ABC we had tires on Good Morning America. Now, Charlie can't think there's an anywhere now. I right now. It'll come to me. He was ABC and NBC. We had Chuck Quinn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1075.0,1091.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's right, in Iowa. Mo came in. I believe it was fourth or something. Was that a great disappointment for him? And how did you deal with it? From a press standpoint,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1092.0,1105.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was a disappointment. I think that we had hoped to do better than I think that was a foregone conclusion that Carter would win and but we thought that if we came in a reasonable second, that would give us some momentum. But everyone knew that Carter was going to get a blitz out of this that would be real tough to beat. As it turned out, when mo came at four, we had no bounce at all, and it was a almost we had to write off or fend off these negative reports that mo would keep, you know, scrap the campaign. A lot of them came out of out of Arizona, naysayers out there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1106.0,1144.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So that was sort of a problem throughout the campaign, though, the you're never a profit in your own home, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1145.0,1150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, also I think that there were, there were competing political forces in Arizona, the deacon city. People were worried that Moe would give up earlier than running for the Senate out there, and meanwhile, it was hard to raise money, and you couldn't blame them for being somewhat resentful when Moe was out there tapping every nickel he could get out of Arizona. And there were most supporters in Arizona who were skeptical of this whole thing, who were urging him to run for the Senate. Meanwhile, Moe was looking down in the scene, God, I don't know if I want to run for the Senate. I don't, I don't want to think about anything about running. He said running for the nomination. So it was tough, tough on him from the home state, not being, you know, solidly in his back, in his backing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1151.0,1196.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in New Hampshire was the next big. Test. Did you travel with Mo there? Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1197.0,1202.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: go to New Hampshire? A crew of us went up, I think, like the Friday before the New Hampshire primary to and on our own time, on vacation time, or what have you, and just pilot and cars went up there to do the last four days of leafleting and walking precincts and doing whatever we could do on his behalf. It was a great adventure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1203.0,1229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So you were doing, doing door to door canvassing as well. I worked, I worked with Dick","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1230.0,1234.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: STAUD and kind of at the headquarters hotel, and went with more on a couple of his last plant gates and other things that were going on up there. It was, it was interesting. Where was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1235.0,1248.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: his headquarters? It was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1249.0,1250.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: at the Holiday Inn, naturally in Manchester.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1251.0,1259.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: So the key press person was still Dick stout.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1260.0,1262.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Dick was the road press guy. And I would be kind of the person in Washington, and I would do the congressional business, and then on my own time, go over and work in the campaign office. In the evenings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1263.0,1274.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Were the same press crew following you at that time as in Iowa, pretty much a regular the same, okay, what, what was the greatest challenge from a press point of view in New Hampshire,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1275.0,1288.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: keeping the credibility up, keeping the negative stories and big every time we turn around, it was, you know, This probably is the last day before he lost last stand, and insiders are expecting that he'll if he doesn't do well here, he'll withdraw. And we had to fight that all the time. We had to fight that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1289.0,1309.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all the way down to the end. Where were those coming from?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1310.0,1314.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Sometimes his colleagues who were well intentioned and worried about him, sometimes within the campaign, from people who were dejected, and after a couple losses, lost Trent, and a lot of it came from his opponents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1315.0,1334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Would you give us your impression of some of the major press figures then, like Johnny Apple, wasn't he? You","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1335.0,1341.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: know, Apple was critical to the whole outcome of the 70 of the 76 race. In October of 1975 there was a straw poll exercise put together by the the one register and the and the Iowa State and the Iowa Democratic Party. And in order to qualify for to cast a straw vote, you had to buy a dinner ticket and come to this convention, quasi convention and cattle show. It was what was in at Iowa State, in the in big basketball arena and the Carter, people who had done their grassroots organizing for you for over a year, were really prepared for that. They had busses, they had people lined up. They paid the way for for students and what have you. And they really packed the room. Mo gave one question to the best speech there. But we had all the players from from Milton shap to Fred Fred Harris to Henry Jackson, and I think everybody was there except Wallace and Mo gave a great speech, but we just didn't have the troops there and would have demonstrated there apple and the other journalists present was that Carter, in fact, had that kind of grassroots strength that he could put together in in the caucuses than in early 76 and was going to win it when it big. So he had a page one story after the after the straw poll, which indicated that Carter was way ahead, and that helped Carter great deal in his fundraising, and it put it put a crimp in our efforts, because it further cast doubts as to most ability to carry it off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1342.0,1453.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I spoke to David Broder the other day, and he indicated that, least my impression was that Johnny Apple, almost single handedly, made Iowa into the major the major test. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1454.0,1469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: there's another guy by the name of Jim flansberg, who was the political editor of the Des Moines Register, and that was really his baby. I saw apple at at the at the straw poll. And I made a kind of a joking reference to flan Burch folly, that this thing really didn't have much meaning. And then he corrected me. He said, No, this had a lot of meaning. And I knew right then that Apple was clearly in the Iowa caught. A strategy. So there was no surprise to me. How","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1470.0,1502.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: about David Broder?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1503.0,1505.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Broder was more, I think, a little more distant from from that, although he gave it, you know, he gave the outcome there. And no one could doubt the that Carter had showed great determination and an excellent grassroots strategy. And I think that there was, well, there might have been a lot of skeptics about this guy, who is this guy, and kind of thing. David, early on, recognized, I think, that he had some appeal, and that his message was being heard, and that he could, he seemed to be able to not anger anybody, and was about everybody's second choice. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1506.0,1542.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about how about Jack German? These are just general impressions of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1543.0,1549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Jack. Was skeptical of Mo and his ability to do this. And if I could be frank, early on warned me that if Moe became a front rank leading contender, that he thought that Mo's wife Ella would become an issue. And I, I found that disheartening and disappointing, but but being a somewhat of a pragmatic guy, and knowing that Ella had a reputation of being of enjoying life to its fullest and having a temper, I recognized her that this could be a problem, but it would be. It would have been very disappointing for me had that happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1550.0,1601.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about Jules? Wood cover","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1602.0,1605.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Jules is I liked mo a lot, and liked all of us, and we all paled around together. He liked Ella, and I guess, you know, he know, he was very, always quite pleasant, upbeat when he was run those What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1606.0,1628.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was your impression of Ella?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1629.0,1630.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I loved Ella. I thought she was great. I knew Ella had her flaws, but she had a heart of gold, and she loved Mo, so she put up with us, but she loved Mo, and that's why she did this. Everything that he asked her to do, the public nature was against everything that she helped. Personally, she was insecure about speaking in public and but she loved to sit in the back of the bus and and carouse with the press, and they left her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1631.0,1668.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about Hunter Thompson?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1669.0,1672.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I never did eat that with Hunter Thompson. Bracey did, but I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1673.0,1676.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I recall one, one trip he had with Mo on Mo's plane, but I don't, I don't recall what state it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1677.0,1684.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't know. Maybe stout would have done that, but poor stouts gone. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1685.0,1688.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How about Bill plant? Wasn't he another one? Plant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1689.0,1693.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was a guy I didn't know when I was on the Hill, Connie Chung was, was the congressional correspondent for CBS. I asked her what she what she knew about Bill plant that he had been assigned to us, and she said he was, he was great, he was one of the rising stars, that he wouldn't be only negative. And she was right about that. And Ike Pappas was another who was assigned from CBS to us, they kind of rotated Ike Pappas and Charlie Gibson. That's the name of the ABC reporter. I was thinking Ike was a little more Washington oriented and a lot more skeptical of Mo's ability to carry this off. And we would make a joke that Pappas, every Tuesday night, was standing in front of the camera and saying, This is the end of the Udall campaign. And he did this for about 20 weeks in a row.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1694.0,1749.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How discouraging","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1750.0,1751.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Ike was at the memorial. It was good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1752.0,1757.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The results of New Hampshire were Carter about 30% and Udall second, six points behind it, 24% How did Mo and you and close staff deal?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1758.0,1770.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We were really, really disappointed. We had hoped against hope that we could carry this off. But what hurt us up there, I think, was Jackson's failure to be on the ballot. Had he been on the ballot, he would have taken enough Carter votes off in order to for us to squeak by. Jackson strategy was not to enter New Hampshire, but to do well in Massachusetts. The campaign in the Boston Market, very heavily, of course, Jackson message would get into New Hampshire because they have the Boston TV and it was just another, another one of the what ifs the bad luck","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1771.0,1813.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: kind of doesn't make sense to put the to put the money into the Boston media market and not have your name on the New Hampshire. Jackson","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1814.0,1821.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: had a flawed strategy to skip New Hampshire and go with Massachusetts. And he ended up losing, losing Massachusetts. Actually, he didn't. He won Massachusetts. He won, but it was a hollow victory, because, I mean, it was bussing, and he had turned off labor and turned off the liberals, and he didn't have a chance that today","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1822.0,1847.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in Massachusetts. Did you work in Massachusetts at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1848.0,1850.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I went through there and I didn't work in the state. I went to the debate the in Boston that was held, but that was held prior to the New Hampshire primary. So what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1851.0,1863.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was most headquarters there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1864.0,1866.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in Boston, in Boston,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1867.0,1870.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Parker house or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1871.0,1873.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the hotel they stayed at? A lot, yeah, a lot of the activity that was was out in Newton, and a lot of Mo's, I think his co chair was, was Dukakis sister, and they, and they all lived in Newton, so there was a big the Newton liberals,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1874.0,1895.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and was Dick stout, still the primary campaign. And was the national press corps basically the same that was following Mo, had that shifted at all? Had they gone from a zone coverage to a man to man yet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1896.0,1911.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, we're pretty much Chuck Quinn from ABC, from NBC, Charlie Gibson from ABC and and we had plant and Pappas and their crews, and there was no CNN or anything at that time. The New York Times was rotating Charlie Moore and Linda Charlton. We got Margot Hornblower a couple times from the Washington Post. Liz Drew was running for The New Yorker, and she would travel with us and everybody else. So she would spend some time with us and then pick us up later. AP was playing at regional. We didn't have anybody really on the plane. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1912.0,1956.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: mo have his own plane? Then he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1957.0,1961.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: picked that up. Yeah, I think it was after Massachusetts when we started to do seriously campaigning for Wisconsin and New York, and they had to actually do a lot of commuting back and forth. So they had two planes. Actually, they had the basilar bomber, which was an old I uh, Convair 440 and it used to be the Air Force One of Conrad Adenauer, and still had had German labels on the seat belts and everything else. And it was a horrible old plane. Why was it called the Dazzler? It was run by Basler basil air service in Wisconsin. It was chartered from that. And one funny story it was in too funny to be president, was we were waiting in Milwaukee for the plane to come back from New York, buffalo, I think. And we had a schedule that would start like after nine o'clock Wisconsin town. And we were all at the airport waiting for Ambassador bomber to come in. And I saw I noticed that there were the Secret Service guys were stirring about and looking upset and running around, and I couldn't figure out what was happening. We weren't wearing the ear plugs or anything. I asked one of the guys as well at the tower reports they lost the plane over Lake Michigan, Holy Christ. Then a minute later they picked it up. What had happened was that the wind was blowing up at Lake Michigan, like about 100 miles an hour up where they were, and the plane was making about 90 knots. They were going backwards the track them off of the radar. We also picked up a third child, I think was F 27 was a prop jet twin engine. It was configured for executive seating and for making the shorter hops and the ones to fundraisers won't have you. They used that plane, and that was a good plane, and gave most in the area to rest. I had a, had a kind of a fold out bench seat. Think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=1962.0,2085.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that's the one that I flew in couple of times. Yeah, that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2086.0,2088.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was, that was a good plane that was named the Flying Tiger after Ella.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2089.0,2092.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: That's right, that is the way Jules quit. Wrote a book after the campaign called marathon, and in there he he indicated that one of the major challenges that the Udall campaign faced in Massachusetts was trying to get the press to focus on the elimination of liberals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2093.0,2112.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, the word liberal? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2113.0,2116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: no, I think it was more the elimination of the liberal PAC In other words, winnowing down. Winnowing down. That's a better term. Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2117.0,2127.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: It was thought after New Hampshire that Shriver was gone, although they had to wait till after Massachusetts, they thought by was gone. There was some hope that Harris was gone, but Harris, Harris, who was a very witty and smart guy, said he had been winnowed in at New Hampshire because he had done better than people had thought he would do at the expense of Shriver and by so there was that phenomenon. People were looking at seeing if they're if they could window down some mode, survive then, then he would be okay. But there was also another ongoing controversy over that actual term liberal. You recall in the 76 liberal was kind of a pejorative, and it scared off some people, and that Jimmy Carter was running as a centrist and was being frank, forthright about his disdain for liberalism,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2128.0,2186.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: and Harris was a populist, that's right. And so what was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2187.0,2190.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: mo Well, Moe determined that he was a progressive, and we spent a lot of needless time and energy trying to define what was progressive and why was progressive, not a liberal. And no would tell the story of the Law School professor and the student who the Law School professor asked the student if he knew the difference between adultery and fornication, and the student said, No, Professor, I've tried them both and can't tell you the difference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2191.0,2219.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Well, speaking of the liberal progressive dichotomy, it did seem that one of the one of the battles mo fought throughout the 76 campaign was to to somehow toe the line between McGovern and muskie, the sort of radical image of a liberal or liberal radical image of a McGovern versus the sort of blandness that was perceived as musky, and to some extent even Mondale. Did you see that as a challenge facing him to try to it seems like that's something he never resolved. He didn't ever quite come out of it, almost as if he never took a stand on where he was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2220.0,2262.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I don't see that there was, there was competition for support of influential members of Congress, some of their governors, staff people. And, you know, we had, we had some key McGovern people, some key muskie people. We had Curtis GaNS, old McCarthy, and we had Mark Shields, who was Musk's guy. And, you know, we transcended that pretty well. Mo was Mo, and I think where we got hurt was with labor. Labor had always mistrusted both from the old","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2263.0,2305.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: right to work, right to work,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2306.0,2308.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: which he had voted for as as an Arizona it was, you know, a principle of Arizona politics, and that was held against him, and labor was a real problem. Labor also was kind of hanging back waiting for Humphrey to come in. And so they what labor did was kind of split things up between all the candidates, and they would give some support, some money, some workers, to almost all the candidates. The Case in point of that one, the most clear indication of that, was Michigan and Wisconsin, where the UAW could have swung those states for one of the other candidates, but instead, they kind of hung back and gave Moe pretty good support in Wisconsin and very lackluster support in Michigan, and they ended up coming second both places, just by here, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2309.0,2370.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in Wisconsin. Wisconsin was the next big test for Moen, probably the biggest chance for victory for him. Did you travel there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2371.0,2382.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I did. I took leave from the Congressional job and spent a month in Wisconsin. What was your primary function there? I was the press lead in the state.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2383.0,2394.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So did you travel with Mo most of the time? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2395.0,2396.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: traveled with him when he was around. But I really dashed the press operation in Milwaukee, and Dick did the traveling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2397.0,2407.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Let me back up just a little bit to Massachusetts. Squabbles in the Udall campaign started being a little more obvious in Massachusetts, where martila and Kylie were hired to do as consultants and to do media buys. By then, the leadership had undergone several changes. When we got to Wisconsin, a key thing that happened toward the end that people still talk about is, is that the last few days before the actual primary, very critical media buys were not made, and also that there was a, something like a, I don't know, 4000 piece mailing, I forget the quantity, to The rural areas first, Minister this and that it's that rural area that, in the end, was, was a deciding vote to some extent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2408.0,2465.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, there's a flaw in that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2466.0,2469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Please go tell us about that. What","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2470.0,2473.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: you did. We did go dark in the last week. We can that that was a hurtful thing. But no had made a promise to Ella and a promise to Stewart that he wouldn't go into hopeless debt and he wouldn't mortgage the house for this campaign. When he got into the waning days of the Wisconsin race, it was clear and it didn't have the cash the Supreme Court had ruled, and the FEC had ruled that no matching funds would be dispersed until the outcome of the low versus Buckley Burt Lance had negotiated some bank loans on the equity that would be of be there the matching funds. Mo didn't have the banking support to do that. So Carter had money. We were stymied. Stewart kept his word to moe. Moe kept his word to Ella, but he probably wouldn't have had Stewart draw the drawn the line there, and that meant going dark in Madison and Green Bay and Milwaukee on the last weekend before the race, and that meant not sending out that mailing to Dave obies, congressional district, which is largely rural, taking on Carter on price supports, dairy price supports as being two faced and talking of them. But and that was critical, but another critical thing was Fred Harris's unwillingness to drop out and unwillingness to although he said he wouldn't act with the campaign, its unwillingness to go to Madison tell his people to go for Moe and we. The margin of victory was was narrow, but it was it could have been overcome, and Madison had, we had a united front down there, even without the first district, but combination of those things was, was too much, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2474.0,2586.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Harris withdraw within, withdrew within a day or two of the primary, as I recall,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2587.0,2593.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, but his, but he still picked up like 4500 votes out of Dade County. Actually, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2594.0,2598.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: think it may have been, may have been more than that. The as I recall, Carter won by almost an 8000 vote margin out of almost 800,000 and I think Harris got about 8000","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2599.0,2610.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: votes. I think Dade County was about 4500 something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2611.0,2614.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: There seems to be a perception among a lot of the field workers, at least, that martila and Kylie were pocketing a lot of the money. I mean, not not, not in the illegal sense, but that, you know, their business was to buy media, and they and they earned money off of all the media they bought. And some things like mailings may not have gotten done because of that. Do you have any recollections? Did the press? Was a press aware of of any of these disputes going on? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2615.0,2652.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: sure, sure. You don't hide things like that, because both sides are all parties. You know, in the campaign, would talk to their friends in the press. There's no no secrets on a campaign. And you know, people would write that the ribbon, strife filled needle campaigns, the only forth holding together was the candidate, and they were right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2653.0,2677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What did MARK SHIELDS eventually become one of the campaign managers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2678.0,2680.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he did for Ohio. For Ohio, yeah, okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2681.0,2685.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Carter's campaign throughout seemed to be there seemed to be masters of lowering expectations for themselves so as to seem more victorious, and then raising expectations regarding. Opponents so as to emphasize the loss. How, how were you as the press person, able to counteract that? It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2686.0,2709.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was an expectation game. Everybody knew it, and we'd play it as well as we could. And it turned out, you know, I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302#t=2710.0,2712.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270302/transcript/78621/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/621/original/azu_ms396-027_side1_a.vtt?1744914096","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/621/original/azu_ms396-027_side1_a.vtt?1744914096"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - azu_ms396-027_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":2576.328,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/270/303/original/azu_ms396-027_side2_a.mp3?1744847840","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2576.328,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Yeah, all right, we are, we are back on and we were talking about the political game of lowering and raising expectations. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=0.0,8.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: everybody plays it because it's, you know, it's a hedge against outcome. And those races were so close, it was hard to, hard to say, well, who was going to win? So it was smart just to say, well, we you know that the Carter people are well organized and well financed and, and they're on a roll and, and they're getting good coverage, and there is a centrist attracting in a lot of attention, and they're picking up support from the dropout candidates. And those were indisputable facts. They would say, well, Udall has, you know, the press that loves him, and he's got the liberal activists who turn out, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=9.0,53.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: his message seems to be ringing true, according to our polling. And all that was true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=54.0,59.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So it was we came down to luck and weather and getting the troops out. And time after time, they did better at it than we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=60.0,73.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You mentioned Stuart Udall a little bit ago. What was, I guess a lot of this is 2020, hindsight. But how would you describe Stuart's role in the campaign,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=74.0,89.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: as a loving brother who was protective of Mo and Ella and their and their future, who was stopped doing that, who was proud of him, envious of him, but most of all, loved him. And it was a complex relationship, and and Stuart's relationship with Moe and with the campaign was one of great complexity, and it would be, it would be, you could take hours just explaining the nuances that went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=90.0,133.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: on there by by the end of the presidential campaign, How, how do you think the press's feelings or impressions of Moe and of Carter had changed, if at all,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=134.0,150.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they didn't like Carter. Do you know why his personality? Because he was defensive and not open and schmoozer. He was very serious guy. They loved Moe because he was just the opposite reasons. I mean, they respected Carter's intelligence, and they liked very much Jody Powell and Hamilton Jordan and Tim craft and the other key Carter people. They were very affectionate with them, but as an individual, as a person, no one really sat down and schmoozed with Jimmy Carter. We had open access. Well, you know, if he wanted to talk to the press, he talked to the press. We kind of had somebody sit around because we were worried about what we called terminal candor, and that he would say something. And he did more than once. So he gave an indication to somebody that he was getting frustrated. And he, you know, and at one point in time, after coming second by 2000 votes, both in Connecticut and Michigan, the vice word drepped up, kept crept up. Would you accept the vice presidential thing? And mo off handily said, oh, you know, I had the opportunity. Then we had to spend a week finding that model, because the fundraisers got furious at that, and they were saying, Why are we getting money? This guy is just running for vice president, so we had to be careful there too. Candor. Could get you in trouble. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=151.0,239.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I like the term terminal candor, when, when? For when, for all purposes. Do you think the campaign was actually over after Wisconsin? No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=240.0,255.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it was Pennsylvania. Was the was the worst moment. We were out of money. We couldn't get the matching funds. It was hard to raise the money, and the specter of this was Jackson's last stand. If Jackson or Udall did not win, Pennsylvania, it was clear that Carter had everything wrapped up. Take a break. Okay? Pennsylvania, so we didn't have any money, and it was clearly everybody's last stand. Jackson was putting everything he had into it, and he had significant labor support, and she. Home state, and he was, you know, he was there. I don't think we had any late entries. Yeah, we had Jerry Brown was starting to make sounds about coming in, and he actually came in from Maryland, and he did something. So it was from the press point of view. It was clear that Udall was on the run, that this was his last shot, and we put everything we had in, you know, in terms up there, without being able to buy any advertising. It was all grassroots. It was love of love and humor and Mo was keeping everybody's spirits up. But it was a tough, campaign. It was a and a very quiet night, and the press was respectful of Mo and guarded against hurting feelings of calling it an inept campaign or anything else, I think that they just said that the, you know, the stars were aligned wrong at this particular time, and there were a number of reasons why it didn't happen, but MOA would make the inevitable election night pronouncement that we're not through we're going to go on to Ohio. We refuse to concede anything. We continue to throw some zingers at Carter, irritating the Carter people, know him. And so we geared up, I think, for the last go around, nobody would make any at this time, Jerry Brown was in so nobody was thinking of going to California, except to raise money. We were profoundly irritated, and especially Stuart, when Frank Church made a belated entry in time to muddy things up in Ohio, which was really our last chance, where we had some we had some labor support, and we had some organizational help, and we thought maybe if there was an effort to to do in Carter by everybody ganging up on him. That would be the place, but in terms but it was so split up, and Church's entry really threw a monkey wrench into the whole strategy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=256.0,434.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: You think church really thought he could win. Everyone thought","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=435.0,438.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: at the time that no one is going to allow this party to be led by this hit from Georgia. Nobody knows. And they all the powers of being in labor, were worried about this. Liberals were worried about it. Civil rights people knew him pretty well, but on a national basis, didn't know him very well. But then no one could bring themselves to believe that he's going to carry this off, but it was inevitable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=439.0,469.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: How did Moe? How did Moe deal with it when he discovered or not discovered, but when it, when it became obvious that the campaign was over. I Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=470.0,482.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: well, there was a couple of days real thoughtful contemplation by Mo. That was when they the date came. I think it was in April, May. I can't remember. You might remember this when you had to make decision whether to gather signatures for petitions to get on the ballot in Arizona, either running for house or running for the Senate. And petition day came and made a decision, knowing full well what the outcome would be two half petitions gathered for house, the house. And, of course, people just said, well, then he doesn't think he's going to win and it must be over. And it was hard to refute that. And the Arizona press was much who, you know, have been writing all along that they thought this was going to happen. You know, felt justified. The Arizona Republic would have been relentlessly negative to Mo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=483.0,543.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Number of people in Arizona really noted how the Republican did just massive coverage, very positive coverage when Moe died, and how nasty they had dogged him for years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=544.0,558.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: There were different people at the helm. How","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=559.0,562.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: did Ella feel about the campaign being over? I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=563.0,570.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: think she felt some relief. It had been a great strain on on them. They had to travel apart. Sometimes didn't like to do that they found great comfort traveling together. Ed was worried about the financial impact. She didn't want to spend the rest of her life paying off for this campaign. But again, Stewart had been very cautious about that, and. The our Stan KERS, who was old school and military friend of Mo's, was their treasurer and was watching over the books and out of his office in New York, and was very careful not to get mo hopelessly in debt. We were, you know, and he couldn't spend the matching money. So we're probably fortunate there that matching money didn't come until it was pretty much over, and you could retire some of the debt","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=571.0,626.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: with that is Stan Kerr still in New York. No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=627.0,628.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he's dead. Oh, he is okay by the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=629.0,632.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: end of the campaign. How. How did Moe feel about Carter? How did you feel about Carter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=633.0,641.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: That's difficult he felt. I think he felt somewhat embittered by the fact that Carter wasn't as forthright as he was on issues, tough issues. He was trying to have it both ways. He was envious of him for his ability to get grassroots efforts out there. They had never really gotten any degree of warmth. And I think Moe felt that Carter should have repudiated the mayor of Detroit when he nears the Mormon card against Moe with the black community. And Carter did nothing to call him off from doing that. That was probably the bitterest moment. The Carter people were angry at Moe, especially Roseland, for not dropping out and throwing its support even after Ohio, when it was inevitable, and Moe had been told by delegates, sucked it down on his behalf. The delegates wanted to go to the convention. As you know, delegates, they didn't want Moe to drop out, that if he dropped out, they would lose all standing and any clout they might have would be lost. And it was especially true of the delegates mo had won in New York State, which he had come in second again New York State. And that delegation was was a formidable one, led by Bella Abzug and and she was damned or she was gonna let mo drop out. But you know, no matter what kind of conversations amongst the campaigns, the bottom line was that the Carter people felt it was critical that they be able to marshal all the forces, show the that it was a unified convention, and allow them to go into the convention with a without any opposition. And of course, Moe wouldn't, wouldn't do that. So they were very bitter at him. Of course that meant that any consideration of Mo for a second spot was gone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=642.0,765.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: There seemed to be a certain amount of animosity on the floor of the convention, at least early on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=766.0,771.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think it was lingering. And you had fought hard and with all your heart and soul against these people for six months. It was hard just to stop","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=772.0,783.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that year after, after the convention, still 1976 tough year for mo he he fell off a ladder, broke both arms, contracted viral and pneumonia, suffered a burst appendix, got peritonitis. How? Did he deal with all this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=784.0,804.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: With humor as usual. He never really felt sorry for himself, at least publicly. And Ella wouldn't let him feel sorry for himself. She was always bragging him, and also and his colleagues were great and, and I think that the lingering friendliness of the national press people covered him, he realized that he had come out of this thing, not a loser, and, and he found some great solo he he went up to in November after the election, he went to Yale and and was the guest of Yale for two days and participated in a seminar with Johnny Apple and several others, a panel on what the 1976 election was about. And and he went to several classrooms and gave, had to sit down Q and A with students, and had dinners with prominent professors. And he came out of that feeling very, very good. And he was clearly a national figure, a figure who had won one respect from people in in the party and in the journalists, from the academics, and I think he felt that he had urged, earned himself a national reputation. Do. And he looked at and I would say, right after the after the primary, when, when Carter got the nomination, Melissa said, Well, I don't know if he's going to win this thing. I don't know if he can beat a incumbent president. If he doesn't, it was 1980 for us, so there's always that kind of hope. He never felt depressed or downcast at all. In fact, right and up to election night, this was a close race with Carter and Ford. I think right up to that point, he kind of held out some fond hope that maybe 80 would be another opportunity for him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=805.0,938.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I was just thinking of a question on that. Oh, did, I guess I'm just curious, just fishing a little bit, did Harris or or by or Frank Church, or anyone ever come to mow in later years and say, you know, looking back, I really wish I dropped out earlier, not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=939.0,960.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the one else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=961.0,964.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: The remaining years that Mo was in Congress, he was just incredibly productive. In 1977 he was named Chair of the House Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs. Am I correct that you joined him as a public affairs director of the committee in 1977","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=965.0,982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, what I did was split my time, and I spent my paycheck being on committee staff and on the personal staff. Oh, okay, so I stayed, I had desks in both places, and kind of stayed in that capacity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=983.0,1001.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: What? What did it entail being, being the Public Affairs Director for the committee? Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1002.0,1008.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: the committee prior to that, didn't have any kind of communication strategy or press release strategy or anything else they and no committees really did. Mo kind of brought the interior committee into the 20th century. So we would put out schedules to the press. We would put out Bill summaries. We would we did things that hadn't been done before on the committee, and we because there were issues that came up with great national significance like Three Mile Island, like Alaska, we did a much more aggressive outreach, of telling what was going on on the hearings, and inviting press to travel With us,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1009.0,1054.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: tell us something about Three Mile Island. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1055.0,1062.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I used to monitor wire service machine very just to keep an eye on what was going on. And I saw it come in one morning that there was a an alert in a nuclear facility in Pennsylvania called Three Mile Island, and we had nuclear energy was one of the areas that Moe had retained on his energy environment subcommittee. We had divvied up the nuclear issue with John Dingell, and Moe retained the energy element of it and safety and and nuclear wastes. So when that came up, I went into Stan Scoville, and in Henry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1063.0,1113.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Stan was director of the was staff director,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1114.0,1118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and Henry what was Henry's name? He was a PhD, who was our nuclear expert. I said this wire story came over about, of course, Henry jumped up and ran in and saw what had happened, calls from friends at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and told Moe about it, and we had a statement immediately, and we got into the immediate news flow of that story. Mo, within days, took a delegation up there, including national television and what have you, and was a leading congressional figure in that whole investigation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1119.0,1164.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: In 1978 the Indian Child Welfare Act was passed. Do you recall that at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1165.0,1175.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Not too much was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1176.0,1177.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: vote mo the key sponsor on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1178.0,1180.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was and that was really an issue that Frank dushanau worked most on them, too. And I would, I don't know if you've spoken with him yet, but no, I haven't yet. He would be important. Got to talk to him, because Moe did magnificent work on behalf of Native Americans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1181.0,1195.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Would that be true also for the 1979 archeological resources? Protection Act. I'll save those questions for him. The Alaska lands Bill was clearly a huge thing in Mo's career. In 1977 Mo and John Seiberling of Ohio introduced HR 39 the Alaska lands Bill setting aside over a million acres of land. Okay, let's see. We were just starting to talk about the Alaska lands bill, yeah, introduced 1977 hearings were initially held on that in Sitka Juno and Ketchikan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1196.0,1237.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Did? Did you go to those hearings? I went to the one the hearings that were in Anchorage and Fort Yukon and and several of the Native American villages and all about the Arctic Circle. And so there were two different sets. Karen skates went on the lower part, a Juno part, Sitka part, I went on the upper, upper part. When we did the like 6000 miles on the 10 days,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1238.0,1273.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was Karen skates doing press. Then she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1274.0,1276.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: was my assistant, yeah. Okay,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1277.0,1278.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what? What do you recall? What was the major press challenge, I'm sure, in Alaska, for the Alaska lands bill,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1279.0,1289.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: we had with the Washington Post traveling with us, and we had the Associated Press reporter traveling with us. And, you know, I just think where Moe wanted to courageously show the flag and try to reassure people that this would not be the end of the world for the people of Alaska, that in fact, in time, they would be thankful that it occurred. He also didn't want to over promise to to the Indians and the aluots and the Eskimos that that this was going to be the the end of the rainbow for that that so it was, and we were in the relent, unrelenting opposition of the of the Alaska press, the the anchorage paper was judged vicious anti util","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1290.0,1345.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: what was its fear? What was its concern,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1346.0,1349.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: that he was locking it up, that the that the extractors oil and mining would not be able to use what was there, and that it would cost them jobs and royalties and everything else that some of the Native American groups were worried that wilderness designation and all would threaten subsistence Hunting. Number of issues there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1350.0,1381.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: was that a matter of misinterpretation or misleading?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1382.0,1385.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, I think was, was a negative abstraction from worrying too much and not trusting most sense of fairness and compromise that the thing would be in the hands of the Enviro crazies and and would lock up the whole stay. Of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1386.0,1406.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: course, they didn't really have any reason to know Mo Udall, did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1407.0,1410.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: they? No. They only knew Stuart Udall Stewart had, in fact, locked it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1411.0,1415.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: up. What was your impression of Don Young.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1416.0,1423.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Don Young was was on the edge of fanaticism about his opposition to the d2 legislation, that he would foment falsehoods and mistruths and half truths, and he was kind of a eco Nazi, I think, and I don't think he's changed much as he's now chairman of that committee. First thing he did was change the name","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1424.0,1456.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: committee of resources, or on resources. How about Ted Stevens?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1457.0,1460.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Steve was, was somebody a mo could talk to. He was a pro, but he had a tragedy occurred. All during all this thing happened, he were, he and his wife were traveling into anchorage in a small plane, which crashed, and his wife was killed, and he was badly hurt. I think he was bitter about the fact that he had to come back because we were holding hearings and what have you. And he held that somewhat against him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1461.0,1486.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I had heard that he that he never quite forgave Mike Gravel for that, because the trip wasn't made necessary by gravels later filibuster. How about. Mike rebel, what were your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1487.0,1500.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: impressions of him? Flake,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1501.0,1503.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: period, Okay, how about Governor jay Hammond,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1504.0,1510.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: I think that he and Moe had a more open, forthright relationship than he did with a lot of other Alaska leaders, and he was a pretty good guy. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1511.0,1523.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: John seiberlin, great American,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1524.0,1527.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: just one of these tireless worker, a great man of great empathy and wisdom. And I remember him belting out Bucha Well, taking a cold lake shower and a bath in the morning. Just hysterical man","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1528.0,1556.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: who are the key staff players","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1557.0,1560.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in the Alaska Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1561.0,1567.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Stanley was Stan Scoville, yeah, but cyber name staff people were very, very important, and I, I know below the names.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1568.0,1582.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: One was Loretta Newman. Was she? She","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1583.0,1584.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: was involved Stan, now working for Mark. You at all. I can't think of his last name, Harry. Harry. Can't think of his last name, Anderson. He was a staff director. They had come from the environmental community and were really good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1585.0,1609.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Mark trout, wine, trout wine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1610.0,1611.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Francis Sheehan, now,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1612.0,1614.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: what was Francis Sheehan's position? He was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1615.0,1618.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: kind of a junior staff person who but on the natural resources side of it, and it was hard working guy, young guy, eager to help. And he was, he was great. And Carla Kish also involved","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1619.0,1638.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 19 in May 1978 the bill was brought to the floor, and the house approved. It went to the Senate, which passed a different bill. It then went to conference committee, and they passed a conference bill over gravels objection, but the bill then died in the Senate because of gravel filibuster, what was, what was set against it, yeah. And was that a concern about him, how it would reflect on him and his getting reelected? Or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1639.0,1675.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: yeah, yeah. I think he was, you know, all you do is read the anchorage papers, you know, where he had to be. No Alaska representative could have supported any kind of compromise on it. So it was frustrating to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1676.0,1687.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: everybody, but Senator Stevens did, didn't he?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1688.0,1691.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But he wasn't up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1692.0,1694.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Would make a difference in 1978 I've heard this story anyway, maybe you can confirm it, maybe not, that there were some dirty tricks, besides the one that's into funding to be president, about them trying to get mo on not having a fishing license. I've heard that Tony Motley of the CMA L, which was the organization against the Alaska lands Bill flew to Arizona for the purpose of riling up the miners in those districts. Yeah, those miners subsequently started a recall, yeah, Champa, you recall that? And it did. It did happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1695.0,1731.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh yeah, that was a the what he did is Motley craft. Lee heard Moe speak out against the mining law of 1872","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1732.0,1751.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: and suggested that it was time for it to be reformed. And this was what this would go after the whole system of patenting claims, which was the life blood of small miners and the larger mining companies that would take advantage of any claims filed that might have something that they would buy from the small explorers and turn into a very profitable large mining operation. So the mining industry itself was steadfast against any change in existent law and Motley and the mining industry saw a point of vulnerability here and went after mo parley in Alaska and the mining law of 1872 opposition. Into a recall movement against Moe and and it was annoying to Moe and distracting to him, and our polling had indicated that we had, we had retained Peter Hart to do a real poll, because a lot of us thought that Moe would be more vulnerable in 78 than he was in 76 because it would, it would take a year or two to sink in that Moe had run as a liberal, and the people in Arizona were not liberal, and we felt that his race in 78 would be more, far more difficult than 76 And so Peter Hart took a pole, came back and said we were right, that in fact, while Moe was held in high esteem, there was considerable opposition to him, and that the right, well funded Republican could knock him off. So when this came up, it was a distraction and worried a lot of us who who saw that mo could, because of us, would make a very long negative campaign. And these guys were well financed. They put in ads, they put out flyers, they did radio spots against Mo and and gathered a lot of negative names on petitions. So it was a it was worrisome and somewhat successful on their part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1752.0,1875.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: This comes a term, motley crew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1876.0,1878.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Well, mo, mo did back off on reform of the mining law of 1872 and so I think that they they felt that they had done something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1879.0,1892.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did he ever come to regret backing off of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1893.0,1897.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think so. I think so. As it turned out, he won 1978 but, but only by 52% so I felt like, I think he, he said, I you know, he just, you pick your fights. And there's some fights you just choose not to pick at this time. This was one of them that was one right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1898.0,1916.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in, in May 1979 the Udall Anderson bill, sort of the second Alaska lands bill was introduced. It was passed in the House and went on to the Senate, and in August 1980 the Senate passed a far less protective bill. My understanding is that the House refused to compromise, until the Reagan landslide, and at that point they thought, well, we better, we better get what we can get. And they reluctantly approved the Senate version is that your recollection of things, what is your recollection is that Carter signed the bill. Well, Carter did sign the bill, but this was after the election itself, and before it was December. It was December 2, I believe 1980 that I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1917.0,1968.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: wasn't there. Okay, I had left in June of 79 so I wasn't in on the final negotiation. Oh, you did leave the staff in 79","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1969.0,1981.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: when by 1980 mo had gone public with his diagnosis of Parkinson's disease? When did you first become aware of it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1982.0,1996.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: Funny, I was out at the MOE memorial in Tucson, and ran into Jerry tregovnik. Dr Jerry tregovnik, and in 1975 I was with Mo we were going to go out to Arizona and then to Los Angeles for the Democratic telethon. It was in May 75 and I ran out early this advanced work in in Tucson, Phoenix, waiting for moto arrive, and he was going to come in do a local taping it that would be, would be cut ins for the National telethon, and then go out in Los Angeles and be there live. They had the party had was deploying all the announced semi announced presidential candidates around the country to drum up local interest. I was out in out there, and LL came out early as well, and Mo came in, and he was not feeling well. He on the plane. He got off the plane, and he was hunched over, and he said he'd hurt his back. He went to the hotel and called a doctor, and they sent an internist over it said it didn't seem to be the back, and they didn't know if it was maybe a kidney stone or something, but they decided that they he was in such pain that they had to admit him. And of course, here we were in the early days of a campaign in your home state, and you're hospitalized and have to break off a campaign schedule that was terrible, negative stuff really a momentum stopper. And Jim. Eric ognik was the was the at Good Samaritan and and did all kinds of tests on and they didn't know what the heck it was. They if I decided that it was a pro infection, the pearl sac around the heart, and that it was, it was that was causing the pain and the discomfort and it could also be a little touch of arthritis in the back. That's why the pain there from the wear and tear from basketball. So we didn't know exactly how to deal we had to deal with this with the press. So the consensus was that Ella was to make a public statement about Mo's health and how he was in good hands. Well, she was, had never done this before, never was did not want to do it. Was very, very worried about it. I don't know what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=1997.0,2154.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that is so well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2155.0,2158.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: So I talked her into doing it. We went over, we did a script, we did a run through, we practiced it. She carried it out beautifully with the help of Dr Jerry targovic, who they became just wonderful dear friends. Jerry later told me that that probably was the first onset of the Parkinson's that there was, it was a neural issue, but it was so early that no one could really track what it was. But he said that that probably was and after mo complained of cramping up in stiffness, and that was because of, he thought, because being in cars and airplane seats and no sleep and not even his own bed and all. But we noticed in in 77 that his his gait changed, and he was shuffling, and none of us knew anything about Parkinson's, but it was a sure sign. And in fact, in 78 the house physician, and they were giving him all kinds of nostrums and chiropractors and everything else that they could think of sent him to a neurologist, and most said later that before he even walked across the room shake the doctor's hand, the doctor told him he had Parkinson's really just from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2159.0,2229.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: his parents in 78 Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2230.0,2232.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: so he kept it in in house. It didn't tell me. I learned of it at the convention in 1980 before he had gone public with it was certainly a huge downer. I had worked. I was at the DNC, and I worked long and hard to get mo to be the keynoter for the convention. And I learned before that what this was. It was, it was terribly crushing. So, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2233.0,2263.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: that's Parkinson's. Was there any any speculation that the stress of the campaign may have brought it on as No,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2264.0,2272.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: it may have brought on some of the symptoms stresses associated with symptoms of Parkinson's. But during","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2273.0,2279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: the Alaska lands bill and the traveling and the committee hearings and things like that. Did you notice any effect during that time? Not really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2280.0,2287.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: He was having a wonderful time. He just loved that kind of work. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2288.0,2292.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: Do you have any recollections of any stories or anything you'd like to share from Alaska.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2293.0,2304.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: We were on a Hamlin Twin Otter. Those things could land in 500 yards, if they could, in a river bed. And we traveled a Grumman goose, and we traveled on a helicopter. And we we just did everything. I just and saw everything, and Mo just went head over heels to to give everyone a day in court, to provide a forum for every side of the issue. I remember in the small a loop village, letting the elders go on and on and on and on, and being tremendously patient. We were all going crazy because we were losing our schedule, and we didn't know we'd have to fly in this little plane and pitch black in the air an airfield with no lights and the rarest mo listening to these elders go on and on and on without a without a sign of impatience and all just a, what a what a man. Just I remember, and it's, it's in the book, till we were out on the on the Bering sea fishing village and the the elders, the chief, took us out to see the seal meat and the salmon drying on the on the line to wait on the coming winter, and the and the chief taking a bit of a seal meat off and giving it to Mo and having them taste it. At which time he he invited me to come over and have some too. And I said, I don't think I'd want to. And Udall said, I. When Udall eats, everyone eats. So we did the fishing license was really my problem. A mo had a license and all, but I had neglected to get it, and I was out there on a boat with him wearing a yellow sucker. It was misty and kind of cold and and we noticed on the other end of the lake that these guys had come in on a plane and were fishing down the other end of the lake. But it was not unusual that somebody else would come into this remote place. So we were out fishing. I was wearing this yellow coat, and we went back in, and Mote caught a real nice pike. I didn't catch anything. We went back in, and these guys came over in their boat and took off these their outer coats and revealed their natural resources department police. And they checked Mo's license, and he had it, fortunately. Then they said, Where's the guy with a yellow coat? Well, I had shown the smarts to go out and ditch the yellow coat under the under a tent. I just stood there and didn't say a word, and they asked a few more questions about but didn't find anybody was fishing without a license, and took off. But they clearly had been tipped from within, and we suspected it was Don Young's guy who had told them, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2305.0,2475.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: in 1980 4am, I correct that mo considered another presidential run","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2476.0,2484.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 2: he he considered the other presidential run from the day after Carter won to into the day after Carter lost, and then when Carter lost, they, we called him the Gang of Four. There was coil and skates and a few others that thought that that Moe shouldn't make another run at it. So, and Ella called on the Gang of Four and and Moe was, you know, you don't let that presidential itis, you know, go. He said the only cure for it was embalming fluid. He was absolutely right. He was tantalizing the idea that people would prominent Democrats to come up and say, Well, you ought to make another shot at it. You did so gallantly and so well what you said was so right. Do it again. And of course, it wasn't widespread that he had Parkinson's when that first then afterwards, that was a problem. And he had, he went so far as to talk to physicians and all about the about Parkinson's, how long it developed, and he was assured by a neurologist that if he made a run in 84 that he would be, he would not be impaired, that the medication would not to stop from making a run. And they were wrong, and it was clear in 82 that that it was taking a toll on him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2485.0,2571.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1: I'm going to stop and put a new tape in before just was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303#t=2572.0,2574.0"}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3179/collection_resources/146508/file/270303/transcript/78622/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/622/original/azu_ms396-027_side2_a.vtt?1744914124","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/078/622/original/azu_ms396-027_side2_a.vtt?1744914124"}]}]}]}