{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/2b8v980k73/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Armando Durazo"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright The Arizona Board of Regents.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection interview 43\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS533.043 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Documented Border collection (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2014-06-06 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["interview"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Mexico","temporal; 21st Century"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Censorship--Mexico--History--21st century","Freedom of the press--Mexico--History--21st century","Human rights--Mexico","Journalism--Mexico--21st century","Journalists--Mexico--Crimes against","Women journalists--Mexico"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["The Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection, MS 533"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Gonzalez de Bustamante, Celeste (interviewer)","Durazo, Armando (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection interview 43\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright The Arizona Board of Regents.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - azu_ms533_043_a.mp3"]},"duration":3312.16983,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/686/original/azu_ms533_043_a.mp3?1676505990","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3312.16983,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Armando Durazo Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SUMMARY KEYWORDS\n\nel paso, reporters, violence, people, cover, juarez, journalism, border, killed, community, story, knew, reporting, tucson, cartel, editor, newspapers, affected, journalists, senior editor","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3313.0,3601.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Could I just have you state your name and your title?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3601.0,3607.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My name is Armando Durazo. I'm a senior editor at the El Paso Times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3607.0,3615.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And could you please tell me how long you've been in journalism?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3615.0,3620.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I started in journalism in 1975 at the Arizona Daily Star in Tucson as a copy boy. And then I went to the University of Arizona, got my BA in journalism, interned at the Miami Herald went back to work at the Arizona Daily Star as a police reporter. From there I went to the Stockton record in Stockton, California. From there, I went to get new service worked at the Tucson citizen covering Mexico in 1982 when the devaluation hit the border and how, how it changed the economy of the border. And I remained at the Tucson citizen and assistant city editor then went back to the Arizona Daily Star as assistant city editor then left to Reno, Nevada when I was city editor and then went to the Los Angeles Times as assistant city editor in the Orange County Bureau, then became editor of the McAllen paper in McAllen, Texas. And now I am here as a senior editor at the El Paso Times, for years. 40 years","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3620.0,3683.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and 40 years in the business and how many years is managing editor here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3683.0,3687.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm the Senior Editor. I've been here. I've been here 12 years at the El Paso Times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3687.0,3697.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And your age sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3697.0,3699.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm 61.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3699.0,3702.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, how did you get involved in in journalism?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3702.0,3706.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By accident that was going to Pima Community College in Tucson, and I needed an elective. And journalism offered me three units. And once I was there, the journalism professor hooked me like a fish. And I've been you know, they've been reeling me and since then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3706.0,3728.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Do you remember who that professor was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3728.0,3730.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"His name is Ralph Chavis. He's from Tucson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3730.0,3741.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm sorry, if you already said this. It's hot out there. So your educational background?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3741.0,3749.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have a BA from the University of Arizona. And then of course, we went through management schools, through the different newspapers, special seminars on management and dealing with the libel law and all that kind of thing. So additional on the job, education.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3749.0,3770.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you got your degree in journalism? Yes. 1977.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3770.0,3779.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, you've had such a long career, I don't know where to start. Maybe you could start about covering the border and in the different areas of the border, how is it different what you say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3779.0,3794.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My first encounter with covering the border was in 1975, when the governor from the state of Sonora was deposed Armando VMH. That was a young copy, boy, when that happened, and the newspaper did not have very many Spanish speakers. So they obviously obviously, they turned to me and said, Armando, we need your help on this, blah, blah, blah. You know, nobody else here can speak Spanish. But I didn't know what I was doing. I was it was a it was way over my head. But somebody else came in and helped and I helped him the reporting, then we put a pretty good little newspaper article there about the deposition of the governor and why it happened. After that. Then everything you know, was a different way of for me to cover the border from actually covering the border myself or having reporters do stories that we came up with a nice story ideas from economy, religion, families, trade, violence along the border. Just about every aspect, you know, immigration, of course, health issues, everything. And it's not that different. If you go to Tijuana, and then you go to Matamoros. The issues remain about the same. There's trade, you know, there's economy, there's immigration issues. All of those are basically the same drugs, of course, violence, of course. But they're basically fall into the same pattern from one one end of the border to the other. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3794.0,3895.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the recent wave of violence that came through why this is starting Maybe in 2010 or 2008, and then getting worse by 2010. As a senior editor, what was sort of your approach? And what were some of your concerns, or maybe concerns that continue to be on your mind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3895.0,3917.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We saw the violence beginning to grow along the border in 2007. in Laredo and some of those other towns on the Texas border. And we were wondering, when is it going to start in Juarez, and in 2008, it exploded, we're talking about murders that defy even reason. 20 people killed in one day, 16 people killed in one particular incident 19 people killed in another incident. There was a it was carnage, it was relentless. It was scary. It was there was something that I had never covered in my life before. And I have covered some, some pretty ugliness, you know, the war, and I covered a war and in what they might love for some time, a little bit, not a lot. The earthquake in Mexico City or 10,000 people killed, and I saw a lot of death. But the one that was happening, you know, in was was was just tragic. Innocent people, people involved in drugs, people who weren't, you know, the best characters in the community. They were strung up, they were beheaded. They were left on the streets. It's unbelievable. It was really weird. I did a story about how the priests handled all the deaths. And it was, it was interesting to find out from their perspective, how they gathered their strength, you know, in their faith. When they would do 10 funerals a day, you know, maybe more. And, you know, they didn't know the person who had died. But they had to speak of that person in general terms and things of that nature. And it was very interesting to see their point of view from their perspective. You know what happened? Then, of course, we had reporters covering the violence. At one point we didn't send reporters into into quantities. We had freelancers and quietest, helpless photographers that would take take us there. Because it was pretty nasty. We had bombings, we had car bombs, and then we had killings of US residents, or US citizens in quad, three, two members from the council. I mean, one employee from the consulate office, and her husband were shot and killed. Family by mistake. We had just regular students from YouTube, who are in the wrong place at the wrong time, killed 10,000 people died. That's a lot more than in some wars that we have been involved in. But now it's changing. It looks like the violence that that took place there is slowing down. And that affected everything that affected trade. It affected the economy. It affected the image of El Paso, it affected the image of whiteness, of course, people didn't want to come down here because they were afraid that there was shootings all the time. There were shootings all the time in class, but not in El Paso. El Paso is the one of the safest cities in the country. So really weird.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=3917.0,4119.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you just mentioned that there was a time that you didn't allow reporters to cover things. And what else could you give me some more details about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4119.0,4130.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We, we didn't prohibit them from going over there. It was their choice. If they wanted to go over there, then they could. Some photographers, some reporters did not want to go because of the violence. Others went others we just did my phone, a lot of phone interviews, a lot of getting information from authorities, from people and all that. But some, you know, a lot of some reporters didn't want to go they want it to be there. And, you know, they were pretty brave to do that. And we we like that, because they were actually there at the scene. I remember one time we did. We covered the funeral of 15 kids who were killed at a party. They were just having their high school. Kids having a party and the bad guys came in and killed 15 of them just shot them dead. It was a mistake. They thought they were gang members when they weren't. But you know, those are the those are the cases that we had to deal with. And it was really strange because at one point 20 people were killed in one day in Juarez. And we were wondering, what are we going to do with that story? Where are we going to put it? 20 We said, normally front page anywhere around the world, not here. Because it was so relentless, you know, the murders were so relieved, the vinyl was so crazy, that even 20 murders didn't make it to our front page. It went to the B section, because the next day, maybe more people would have been killed or whatever. But it was I remember that particular incident, where we said 20 people died, man, that should be on the front page or where we want to put it, we put it aside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4130.0,4239.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because it wasn't out of the ordinary","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4239.0,4242.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out of the ordinary at all anymore. It was not, you know, it would have been, you know, big news anywhere. San Francisco, Tucson, Phoenix, San Diego, it would have been big news. 20 people killed. Here. It was like, okay, 20 people killed, write it up. Let's put it together. And that's it. Because we knew that the next day it was going to be 10 people killed or the next day is going to be 15 people killed or, or more. Very strange. Very, very strange. I know, I've never had to make decisions like that in my life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4242.0,4278.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And how did you in terms of the the reporters or photographers who would cross the border who do continue to cross the border? Do you? Did you provide them with extra training or extra security or measures were taken or how did you handle that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4278.0,4297.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But really, we didn't provide them with any kind of training. We just, we just sent them over there. They had a choice whether they wanted to go or not. But most of them did want to go? Some photographers, and some reporters said, and I'm not gone. And that's okay. We respected that. Now, there's went and they, you know, they understood what their job was they understood that there was danger, they understood what, what all of that was all about. But they went and we got better stories when we did it like that. Because it was all about people it was all about the families that were affected was all about the the community how it was being affected. You know, the quad is was a weak, El Paso and quiet as you used to say, where they used to say, to nation vacation, come to Juarez come to El Paso, and you can enjoy two countries. When this whole thing began, the explosion began. Nope, it stopped. People did not go from here to Cuadras to enjoy the nightclubs, the food, the restaurants. That almost stopped immediately. And then a lot of people from quietus, like about 70,000 people, they estimate left waters and came to El Paso a lot of the businesses, you know, closed down aquatics and came here. Now they were 70,000 is the estimate. Who knows, maybe it was 30,000. But that's what they were saying. At least the officials. So it was a it was an exodus that took place. And we covered all of that we covered. You know why people were leaving, how the violence, you know, hurt the economy, how the violence hurt the image, and hurt everybody. It was really a nasty, nasty thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4297.0,4400.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In terms of the El Paso, Juarez sort of community that was in place before the violence exploded. What did that do to the sense of this sort of binational community that had been in place,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4400.0,4417.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but more mostly it hurt in the economy, the tourists area. The family ties are very strong here. You have family in El Paso, half family and quietus. That still continues to this day. And it continued during that particular time. Obviously, you would take a chance in going over there. But the the the the cultural ties, the heritage and all that still remained. We you know, people still have their family members over there, people would go, you know, to their see their parents would go see the relatives at all. So that continued through the violence. And a lot of shoppers from Juarez would still come to El Paso to shop. I think they were dropping like $4 billion a year. So a lot of money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4417.0,4467.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What sort of precautions do you know if any? Did you keep in contact with the reporters and photographers when they go over there? Or do you still do that? You know, more so than you would somebody covering something on the east side, west side or in Las Cruces? There's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4467.0,4484.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we didn't have any special communications. We did have walkie talkies or not walkie talkies, but as those phones that you can talk with back and forth. And, and we could communicate that way. But nonetheless, we didn't take any special Little steps to communicate like that we didn't provide them with Bulletproof fast. We didn't provide them with anything like that. We were reporters and photographers, we weren't the targets of the violence. We never got a threat. No one ever, you know, sent us any notes, no one sent us, you know, anything, don't do this don't cover that. They didn't want us. They did to some of the reporters there, but not not El Paso. We were I guess we were immune from that. And now all the all the bad guys apparently have been arrested or killed. So the violence has gone down. One woman leader of the I guess the quad is cartel testified that they had an order to kill eight people a day. Minimum, eight people that they had to die. So that I guess, is their way of terrorizing the community. Eight a day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4484.0,4573.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You You're just getting back to what you were saying about the 20 people who were killed in one day that that didn't make the front page was sort of an indication of how much the violence had become a sort of a systemic problem. I guess my question is, what what was your approach in covering it so that it wouldn't be just like, you know, body count stories, one after the other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4573.0,4604.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's very strange that you mentioned that, but after a while, it became a body count. After a while, I would ask my reporters how many today? You know, 1015? Okay, give me a brief on that. You know, you know, if we wanted to do the real good reporting of trying to get the families and what what they were going through and all of that it was very difficult because 15 You know, homicides in one day, it's very difficult to try and get, you know, the, who the people were, you know, what they did, and all of that after a while. We were just writing 10 people were killed in quietness today. 16 were people were killed today. Five were killed today. It was one of those situations. Now, when there were mass homicides that drug rehab rehabilitation centers, were 18 were killed in one fell swoop. And then we figured, okay, there's going to be retaliation. And there was the next couple of days, 19 people were killed at another drug rehabilitation center. And it was all because the drug cartels were retaliating against each other. After a while we kind of even could predict what was going to happen. Because we know that the Sinaloa drug cartel was hitting particular areas, and then we knew that the whitest cartel was wasn't going to retaliate. So it was kind of a we became desensitized in many ways to the violence, because of the amount of the violence it was, it was tremendous. I think in one year 8000 People were either killed or injured. That's a lot of people. I mean, that's just tremendous. And trying to cover something like that is, is it's kind of an interesting thing for a newspaper, like El Paso Times, you know, how do you cover a war? You know, over there? And how do you how do you cover the people? How do you cover the community and all that and be and be fair about it? You know, because what is is more than just the virus, obviously, you had a lot of other things going for it the trade the Makina, what is the kids education, all that stuff, but we try to do to balance it. But I mean, you can't win when, when you have, like I said, 20 people killed in one day, there is no way that you can ignore it, you know, there's no way that you can not report on it. So we were kind of like hamstrung in that respect. And we had to focus on that on the violence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4604.0,4759.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you do any investigative reporting special projects, and looking sort of like putting the violence into sensor you know, context or just wondering you know, thinking back at some of the maybe the meetings Did you some of your budget meetings or planning for you know, special projects for the for the coverage? Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4759.0,4782.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we did special special reporting on the islands, you know, in what is special reporting on the family special reporting on, on the cops special reporting on on different aspects of it, but at the same time, we had El Paso to cover as well. And that at the time that this was going on, El Paso itself was under under siege, if you will, by a huge FBI investigation into public corruption here. And that public corruption led to the conviction of about 40 people, including superintendents of schools, former judges, community leaders, lawyers, elected officials, former elected officials. Oh, my goodness, it was, it was it was it was weird. So it was coming down at the same time. So we had to marshal our resources, the best way that we could, because we had the public corruption taking place in El Paso, and then we had the violence, you know, taking place in quantities. It was pretty, pretty tough for a newspaper this size, LA Times no problem. We could have had 3040 people on it. Back when when journalism was journalism, now, obviously, it's not. And we had, we had some reporters that that were specializing only in the violence of wise. So we did a whole bunch of different things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4782.0,4873.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How many reporters did you have covering? Every every facet of both communities? I guess the question is, what was your staff?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4873.0,4885.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At that time, I think our overall FTEs and unusual was 7475. That's including all the reporters and all the editors. The reporters, we were had about maybe 25 actual reporters, and any one of them could be picked, you know, to do a story on what it is to do a story on, on public corruption. So we picked on everybody, I don't think there was one reporter out there who was not touched by, by the violence. In one way or another, even business reporters had to deal with, you know, the falling train we had to deal with, you know, all those kinds of stuff. So it was it was covered everything in the newsroom? Did you cover education? Because in education, a lot of the kids from what is that moved over here? Soil, the number of students in our school district. So even, you know, education reporters were involved in this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4885.0,4944.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And did you go over and cover the violence or cover stories at that particular, you know, during the height of the violence?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4944.0,4953.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did, yes. I went over to do the priest story. I did, I went over and spent two or three days doing the story on the priests. And it was, you know, I felt safe in whiteness, while I was driving up and down the streets. I didn't feel uneasy, I didn't feel anything like that. But I could feel a certain sense of tension in the community, I could feel that the priests were very open, they were not afraid they were not. Their mission was a little different. And they spoke of the violence, they spoke of the corruption that took place in Juarez. And they knew that their situation was rough, you know, for individual priests, and for the church as a whole. Because, you know, some of the bad guys were giving money to the church, you know, a little bit of religious hypocrisy, I guess what was taking place there. But overall, there was a sense of tension. I didn't feel unsafe. But in either the some of the reporters that went over there to cover funerals and things like that, they felt they felt relatively safe, because there's a lot of attention, you know, being put, say, for example, when 15 kids are being buried, you know, all the police officers are going to be there, the Army is going to be there, everybody's going to be there. And, and there's there weren't going to attack them there. At least we didn't think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=4953.0,5051.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in covering the border is sort of a different place. Right? I mean, you've got two nations. What What would you say are the challenges for for somebody coming? who's not familiar with the scenario? What What would you say are the challenges?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5051.0,5074.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"While there are many, obviously language, and culture and history, someone coming into the border from from Nebraska has no idea. You know, what, what's happening here on the border, say, some of the politicians in Indiana, talk about the border not being safe, and that we need more people on the border and all that that's because they don't know anything about the border. Are they haven't been on the border. They don't know what the border is they don't know that it is safe that people cross back and forth on a daily basis have been for many, many years and probably will continue to do so. And it is. El Paso, for example has been the the safest big city in the United States now for three years in a row four years in a row. In one year, we had five homicides here, five homicides, and we're a city of 750,000 people. I think we're bigger than Tucson. And we have like five homicides, what city in the country has five homicides. There was some spillover violence from Juarez and the drug activity in El Paso. There were a couple of murders that took place. Some of them pretty nasty. One man was taken out of his house in horizon city at gunpoint. And they found his body later and in Juarez with his hands cut off and put on his chest. Later, we found out that he lost a load of marijuana for one of the cartels, and he was killed. Another one was a homicide that took place in East El Paso of a high ranking Juarez cartel member. He was shot and killed. He was an informant for ice. But the guy that killed him was also an informant for ice. And it got kind of a really weird situation. But they they gunned him down outside his house shot him dead. Then they arrested them later, they found out what it was. But spillover violence, yet it took place. cartel members probably live in El Paso. But they're very quiet about it. They don't make any noise because they don't want the attention. Probably a lot of money comes through El Paso to be washed a lot of drugs come through El Paso to be sent out elsewhere. But El Paso in itself is more of a warehouse situation where the drugs come here, their warehouse and then send out elsewhere. Of course, there's there, there are people who use drugs here in El Paso as well. But most of it is shipped out someplace else. And we're talking about a lot of money, lots and lots of money. Millions of dollars have been confiscated at the border going south. And then every day, we get loads of marijuana found at the border have just about every day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5074.0,5269.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in terms of the way you cover the border or cover Mexico, you think that it's changed since before the violence","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5269.0,5281.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the way we covered Mexico before the violence was we have a capacity of 1.3 million in Honduras. They have education, they have businesses, they have tourists, they have nightlife, they have all that we would cover all of that as a whole, as a neighboring community as part of our beats. That's what we used to do. What wants 2008 hit, most of the other stuff went away. And we concentrated particularly on the violence simply because that's that's what made the biggest noise. One One priest told me, you know, of a tree falling in the forest makes more noise than a tree growing. And that is true. When the violence erupted, we had to concentrate on that. Now we're going back now that the violence is going it's decreasing. We're starting to do the other stuff are reporting the Makayla Ross, again, all of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5281.0,5342.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you see your readership go up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5342.0,5346.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, I don't think so. I think we suffered the same thing as other newspapers around the country are readership when went down or remained about the same? But it wasn't because of that. It was because of what the industry was suffering. And we we can't tell whether our coverage of the violence improved or circulation or not. I don't think so. People got tired after. After a while, people began like, like, who cares? You know, okay, another another. Family has been hurt, you know, by the violence, and they wouldn't even sometimes they wouldn't even read those stories anymore. So it's kind of weird. I mean, just just talking to people out in the community, you know, they would say I'm tired of it. You know, I don't want to read about it anymore. You know, that's bad. I know. But we had to cover it, we had to document it, you know, for its history, and as part of history, so we have to document all of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5346.0,5409.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you get any edits? You know, people who submitted letters to the editors, and you know, enough with the violence or any comments like,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5409.0,5419.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember one, but not many. That said, yeah, it's enough, you know, stop covering all the violence. But from a journalistic perspective, we could not ignore it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5419.0,5442.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So now you are mentioning that you're going back to covering whiteness the way you used to before, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5442.0,5451.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, we're beginning to, to redirect some of our efforts in Juarez, in terms of covering number one, the community itself is rebuilding, it's going through a kind of a rebirth. So we're covering some of that. We have a one reporter that is assigned to cover quarters, and everything else that goes with it, like museums that open their trends in the community. markets that are opening. So we're covering, you know, that kind of stuff. Now, obviously, the violence every now and then, you know, erupts again, but not as badly. The other day, I think it was eight people killed. And that's, that's a lot. But so small compared to what it was before. I think one year we had 5000 people killed 4000 5000. Nose. But that's a lot of people killed lots of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5451.0,5520.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you try to get figures, accurate figures for that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5520.0,5524.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for one of our reporters kept a log, just wrote it down and put a log in. And we would we could tell, but then also the waters officials over there provided a lot of information. Believe it or not, the Mexican authorities, in some ways, were much better than US authorities and providing information about the violence, about you know what happened. In one, I remember one particular one, it was a drug rehabilitation center that got got attacked by one cartel or the other. They drew, they sent us a drawing of where the bodies lay, where the gunman came in, where the fire was, was taking place, how they how they came in and sprayed the bullets. I have not seen that in the United States at all. You know what, what police department including Tucson, including El Paso and you know, what offer so much information, you know, for that? So, in that respect, they were very open, very, very open. I think it I think it helped their cause to let the world know that why this was under attack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5524.0,5596.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You mentioned one of them skills or challenges is language, you know, covering the border. What other skills or challenges would you say, a reporter who's covering an area? Like what is what is in person? What are their skills they need?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5596.0,5615.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know that they need any special skills. Reporting is reporting. If you're going to be doing a story on something, you basically know what you want, you know, the questions that you're going to ask, you know, all of that. Knowing the history, I think is very important. Knowing the community I think is very important. Language, of course, knowing who you're dealing with, is very important. Some people, some reporters from say, say the Washington Post, or New York Times or LA Times, would come in here parachuted in for a day, write their stories, and and we would laugh, you know, we will say what the heck is this, you know, this is an accurate, they don't even know what they're talking about. And I'm not picking on any one of those newspapers. I'm just saying that we have read, you know, accounts like that here. And, and we kind of kind of joke, you know, that what they've written, or CNN would come in and do their little thing that quiet SNL, and we're and we're like, almost laughing because they're so inaccurate, because they don't know, you know, the history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5615.0,5684.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not to mention reporters names or anything like that. But give me a specific sort of example of how that would happen. A story perhaps","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5684.0,5693.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I can't because I just it's anecdotal because I remember that that several of us were We were talking about and look at this, you know, look at what this particular reporter did. They don't know what the hell we're talking about, you know, or, or some CNN would come out on TV and we look at it and we laugh. You know, we go. That's wrong. That's so wrong. So I can't give you specifics on that one. But I do remember that we, we laughed,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5693.0,5721.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just like sort of out of context or not not really fully understanding the community,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5721.0,5727.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or making generalizations about how violence, you know, that violence struck El Paso, even the governor, at one point, Governor Perry said that a grenade bomb had exploded in El Paso. No, it didn't. It didn't explode in El Paso. It was inquiries. But I mean, you know, all these kinds of bad information was out there in the community that made that affected us. I mean, from a journalistic perspective, we're going Oh, shit, that's wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5727.0,5759.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was one case two that I can't remember where I read it, about a woman who was walking her baby in the stroller in El Paso and she was hit by, I think it was a woman who was hit by a stray bullet coming from what is a few years ago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5759.0,5777.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, downtown. She was she she was shopping. You know, I think she was from what is she was shopping in some of our areas downtown, and the stray bullet. But you know, we have stray bullets at City Hall, we had stray bullets at UTEP, we had the roads on Pisano closed, because there were shootings across the river. And this like, you know, maybe 150 200 yards into Mexico. And there were shoot outs over there. So the police department would close a particular part of the road, just for safety reasons. It's really, really strange. We had photographs of police officers with shotguns and long rifles there on the border, just hoping that nothing would come across. But it was a it was particularly fearful. You know, for a lot of people, there was a lot of things going on every day, something new would come up. Every day, a new nautical Manta was put up by everyone every day. beheadings took place every day, people were hung, dismembered. It was pretty ugly. It was it was something that, like I said, I think we became desensitized after a while, it was so much, so so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5777.0,5857.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thing in thinking about how the impact the emotional impact that kind of coverage has on you, what do you recall? Or do you think about it now, like how much that affected you emotionally or if at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5857.0,5876.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm sure it has some kind of emotional impact on me, personally. But it came at us so so much so that it was so immense, that I don't think we had time to reflect, you know, we didn't have time to see ourselves how we were being affected, we would just jump on the story and write it up and get the reporters out there. And then I would edit the stories and obviously, how many were front page, many were not. And like I said, even, you know, it became a body count situation where I would ask the night reporter Daniel Boone, that is okay, how many today? You know, 12 you know, give me a small story on it. How many you know, today than you have nine, give me a little brief. After a while it became that we became so separated from from the pain and the suffering, that we were just just write it, you know, just to documented that it took place. Because we knew tomorrow is gonna be more than the next day is gonna be more than next day is gonna be another one. And like I said, it came out in one court trial here in El Paso this year, where one of the bad guys testified that they had orders to kill eight a day. That was the minimum eight a day. That means if they went 13, that's cool. If they went 20, that's even better. So it was indiscriminate in some points. Sometimes it was very deliberate. And we we kind of like, knew a little bit about what was going to what's going to happen next. And we didn't vote like I said, we never were threatened. We never were told don't do this. We never were told don't cover that. I don't know why. But in quietist some of the reporters over there even I would use fake names under Bilanz to protect themselves because I'm sure that they were were threatened. The one thing that we did Do is our one of our freelance photographers, when he went to the crime scene that was directed to the violence. We would not use his name, he would not want us to use his name if it had nothing to do with the violence. So we did a story on a Makayla Laura, are we did a story on particular trend in the community, it was okay to use his name. So he was fearful, you know, for in that regard? I don't know that he was ever threatened either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=5876.0,6032.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you ever not use any by lines of people here at that at the times? When they were covering violence?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6032.0,6038.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, no, we, we knew that we had to use you know, their names because of our credibility. And we had to make sure that our journalistic standard, you know, was high and whether we met it, and when you start putting fake names and pen names are no names, then our credibility would suffer and our integrity would suffer. And we wouldn't do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6038.0,6062.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess the argument for not using sometimes, as you know, in Mexico, lots of times I'll put staff or at ACCION, which means, you know, staff. What, what is your thought? What are your thoughts about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6062.0,6079.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, for them, I think they had to do it. Like I said, they were threatened directly. They they were, they were told, Don't cover this, don't do that. Or you'll get shot and killed. And like we didn't, so we continue to do that. Had we been, you know, threatened had we been shot at, you know, or drive by shooting here something related to that. We probably would have thought about it, what we would do. But it didn't happen. Luckily, it didn't happen. So we we use their names. I use my name on my salon, the story that I wrote that an elbow room, they use his story, Diana, Washington, well, let's use her name. Stephanie Sanchez, you know, Maggie Rivas, we all they all use their names that were not, there was no question that we were going to put our buy lines on it. No one asked not to put a byline","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6079.0,6139.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You must like the southwest and living on the border, because there's a lot of different stories that come up, that you wouldn't find in other regions. What? But I'm just would like to know, like, personally, what? Why do you? Why do you like working in in an area like this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6139.0,6159.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, you have to understand where I come from. When I was being when I became a journalism student, there may have been maybe two other Latino journalism students. In the profession, there probably were like 10, or 20 of us have Latino Hispanic Journalists. So I made a conviction to myself back then that I was going to be a journalist, and that I was going to change the industry if I could, or contribute to the industry if I could. And I think I got very good encouragement by my professors to do it, to become involved, get into the system, become a reporter become an editor, do what you got to do in the in the industry. So that was my, my very first thing I was I was you know, I'm a Chicano, I've always been a chicken on I will be a chicken on some. Back in the day Chicano was a bad word. It's no longer a bad word. You know, we have the same aspirations as anybody else. We want education for our kids, we want an economic base, we want politics, we want all that kind of stuff. That's been a chicken, there's no problem, you know, with that. So, you know, with that in mind, I said, Well, I have an opportunity here to write about Latinos, I have an opportunity to write about our struggles, I have opportunity to write about myths about us our immigration problems and all that kind of situation. So I went with that particular mind, mindset, but also that because I was a Chicano because I was a Hispanic. I wanted to show everybody else that we could do as good a job as anybody else. That we were, you know, good reporters, that we weren't good writers that we are good photographers that we are good editors, they were good all that. And I think we have proven that we that we are, we are we have proven that we can compete at any level. And it was because I had, you know, the encouragement of good people. And I saw the need, you know, for more Latinos. And now, you know, I'm at the The other end, you know, I'm almost on the way out of journalism. And I now have a whole crop of new young Latinos that, you know, I'm trying to help so that they can make it into the business. But who knows where the business is going now, you know, be because of the internet and everything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6159.0,6318.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you? Or do you keep in contact with any of your sort of colleagues across the border? And did you talk with them, like during the violence and try to support them in any way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6318.0,6334.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We did. And we didn't we had partnerships with the Nortel newspaper and nothing. We would help them they would help us to some degree, but not not, it was not an intense relationship. You know, we didn't you know, depend on them for information. Most of the time we had our own reporters. We can you know, we have competition, and DeAndre Juarez in Mexico. And we didn't talk with him at all. They were our competition because they had a in addition and in El Paso. So we were in direct competition with them. But no, we basically did our own thing. We had a freelance photographer over there that knew the situation, and he would take our reporters and, and then we do our reporting. So we didn't have much of a relationship.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6334.0,6388.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just because I know that you're a graduate of the University of Arizona journalism school I was, which was a department back then. How well do you think that training prepared you for your career?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6388.0,6407.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I came out as a professional. I knew that once I left the University of Arizona, that that I knew the standards of journalism. I knew the fundamentals of journalism. I knew the fundamentals of writing. But it took a while of course for me to to become a journeyman. It took me years to become a journeyman, covering cops covering, you know, City Hall County, Feds all that. But the basics were given to me at Pima Community College, and then also refined a heck of a lot more at the University of Arizona. We have debates here in newsrooms everywhere I've gone. What are the best journalism schools? And the best that, of course, I'm gonna say University of Arizona, because they taught me practical stuff. Don Carson, you know, all the others. Greer Ridge, all the other folks knew that practicality was important. Nowadays, journalism schools are not teaching practical things for journalists. I'm getting journalists here that don't know the difference between a bond issue a bond from jail, James Bond, a contractor's bond, or the bond between me and you. They don't know what a affidavit is. They don't know what a search warrant is. They don't know what a how a city council works. So a lot of practical reporting is not being taught. And it's not. It's not in any one particular journalism school with all of them. The people that we're getting here are very, very green. And I'm afraid that the level of journalism eventually is going to start going down, down, down, down and down. And it's not the students fault. I think it's the school's fault, because they're not teaching some of the very fundamentals of how a community works. What is a consent calendar? I don't know what a consent calendar, you know, what? Can you go to the court and, and cover this particular court case? They don't know the difference between the prosecutor and the defense. They don't know the difference between a lawsuit and a divorce suit. It's very fundamental. And I can tell right away, you know, that that people don't are not being taught that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6407.0,6565.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you would make the case for teaching reporting Public Affairs,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6565.0,6568.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wouldn't make a case for for sending, you know, public affairs, going to the communities going into City Council's going to county commissioners meetings, going to courts, going to school boards, getting that experience. Because let me tell you, I went to, I guess lecture that Colorado State University and I was talking to one of the professor journalism professors there. And I said why don't you teach them you know, the practicality things the practical stuff about to read about reporting and what reporting is all about, so that when they they land on their feet, at least they have some idea of what they're dealing with? And he says, No, we don't do that anymore, because we let you guys do it. And then we don't do that anymore. We don't we don't we don't have time to be teaching, you know, reporters. This is what a counsel does. This is what the court does. This is what a judge this is what a search warrant is, you know, we don't have time to do that, you know, and he goes, Oh, I thought you guys did that. My Run? No, we're expecting you guys to do that. You guys are the schools, they pay you guys to teach them that? And then they come they come to me, and there are they are green? Oh, my goodness.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6568.0,6641.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We still teach that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6641.0,6643.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Good. Because that's what they need.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6643.0,6647.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just one last question. If you were to give some advice to young people who want to become reporters or journalists, what would you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6647.0,6659.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Choose your your career wisely. Reporting. Journalism is not what it used to be. In many ways, it is. But in many ways, it is not. Passionate journalists. Like me and some of the people here we have a mission in life. And our mission is to inform people, our mission is to get the word out to the community about anything happening in your community, whether whether it's violence, whether school boards, whether it's FBI, whether it's whatever it is, our mission is to get that information out one way or another. That mission, I think, is being affected now by dollar signs, by the bean counters. Who, whose profit margins are not what they used to be, and they want to keep it at that level. And it's in it's affecting the our mission. As journalists, too many, too many good journalists are had been laid off. Because I guess people aren't making that much money anymore in the newspapers. Too many good editors are gone from the front of the business, and we're getting young people into the business. But they probably are not being taught the passion of journalism, they're not being taught the importance of journalism. And that, to me, is a very sad situation. Because when I started in the business, journalism was very well respected. You know, it still is respected in many, many different ways. But because we've gone to the to the internet is so huge, that people are beginning to be very narrow in their reading, very narrow in what they want to see that general newspapers are not that important to them anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6659.0,6780.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When you talk about the passion and the importance of journalism, what do you what are you getting at? What are you referring to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6780.0,6790.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"when there's a particular drive in a journalist, and that that that drive is, is to get one set of information, distill it, and give it to readers? Have we have a contract with readers, we have a contract with our viewers of the internet, we have a contract with them. And that contract is sacred, that contract is that they depend on us to get them the information. Once we understand that we are their surrogates that they depend on us, then that passion, that drive becomes real, then then you say, oh, people out there are depending on me to get that information to them. They look to us, for city council stories, they look to us for corruption stories, they look to us for that. And once you get that passion, once you're bitten by that passion, you won't give it up. You know, it's it's part of your life. It's part of what you wake up in the morning for, and it is what you do every day is you just that's what you do. Let's get the information out there. Good or bad. It doesn't matter who you know what it is whether people like it or not, whether they agree with it or not. We just get it out there. And that's the important part of, of what we do here is that society, from my perspective, society is better off with information than without information. Information to me, is the currency of democracy. Without that information, people can make some very bad decisions. That's the passion","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6790.0,6900.0"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686/transcript/41747/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you so much for your time this has been a pleasure talking with you especially knowing that you're a UVA grad Go Cats","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/86437/file/174686#t=6900.0,3312.16983"}]}]}]}