{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/1v5bc3t88n/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Alfredo Corchado"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCorchado, Alfredo and Gonzalez de Bustamante, Celeste , “Interview with Alfredo Corchado ,” Special Collections Online Exhibits, accessed January 27, 2021, http://speccoll.library.arizona.edu/online-exhibits/items/show/185.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eForeign correspondent for the Dallas Morning News, Alfredo Corchado discusses his experiences as a journalist in Mexico. Corchado also talks about the challenges of journalism in Mexico, the problems of censorship and freedom of speech. Corchado discusses the violence, corruption and crime in Mexico and how he and his colleagues cope with stress resulting from constantly covering these issues.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eCorresponsal extranjero para el diario Dallas Morning News, Alfredo Corchado narra sus experiencias como periodista en México. Corchado enumera los retos de periodistas en el país, los problemas de censura y libertad de expresión. Corchado habla de la violencia, corrupción y crimen en México y de como él y sus colegas manejan el estrés que resulta de la cobertura continua de este tipo de eventos.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS533.078 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2014-05-15 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Sound"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Mexico City, Mexico (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Celeste Gonzalez de Bustamante and Jeannine E. Relly Oral History Collection (MS 533)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Corchado, Alfredo (Interviewee)","Gonzalez de Bustamante, Celeste (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["mp3"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eForeign correspondent for the Dallas Morning News, Alfredo Corchado discusses his experiences as a journalist in Mexico. Corchado also talks about the challenges of journalism in Mexico, the problems of censorship and freedom of speech. Corchado discusses the violence, corruption and crime in Mexico and how he and his colleagues cope with stress resulting from constantly covering these issues.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eCorresponsal extranjero para el diario Dallas Morning News, Alfredo Corchado narra sus experiencias como periodista en M\u0026eacute;xico. Corchado enumera los retos de periodistas en el pa\u0026iacute;s, los problemas de censura y libertad de expresi\u0026oacute;n. Corchado habla de la violencia, corrupci\u0026oacute;n y crimen en M\u0026eacute;xico y de como \u0026eacute;l y sus colegas manejan el estr\u0026eacute;s que resulta de la cobertura continua de este tipo de eventos.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - AlfredoCorchado-5-15-2014_mixdown.mp3"]},"duration":5106.29333,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/104/978/original/AlfredoCorchado-5-15-2014_mixdown.mp3?1611845072","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":5106.29333,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Alfredo Cochado_unedited [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: We're sitting here with Alfredo corchado. Thank you very much for your time and sharing this interview with us. First of all, could you just kind of give us your your title and what you what you do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1.0,15.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: Alfredo Corchado, I'm the Mexico correspondent for The Dallas Morning News. And my job is to cover technically Latin America, but it's really Mexico. And much of the US Mexico border is particularly the Texas Mexico border.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=16.0,31.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: And sorry to ask you this, because it's part of this study, but your age,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=32.0,36.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: my age is 54. And you're doing this for almost 30 years. You want a history?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=37.0,47.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: Well, I want to just ask you a few demographic questions just to get get those out of the way, your education.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=48.0,53.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: I am a high school dropout, and graduated from El Paso Community College, and later from UT El Paso,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=54.0,61.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: with a degree in journalism?,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=62.0,63.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: A degree in journalism, an associate degree in communications, and then a degree in journalism and minor in Latin American Studies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=64.0,72.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: And you're based here in Mexico City,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=73.0,74.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: been based in Mexico City off and on for about 20 years. I've also worked out of that did some work out of Havana and DC, started my career at the wall street journal in Philadelphia, and in Dallas, and began, everything began really at the at the border covering northern Mexico, US Mexico border for the El Paso Herald posts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=75.0,98.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: And you've pretty much worked in print your entire career,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=99.0,101.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: Entire career in print, did a little bit of radio and did a little bit of TV. It was very short. I was fired. I don't think I was good. Looking enough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=102.0,116.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: Okay, and that was early on in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=117.0,118.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: Right, at the begining of my career, I was a ruin salasar. recipient. And it involves going to TV, but didn't didn't last too long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=119.0,131.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: And how did you get involved in journalism?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=132.0,136.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO: question it. I got involved in journalism. It'll pass the Community College. I was trying to figure out what my career would be. I wasn't sure. I mean, I had dropped out of high school. So I spent a lot of time working in the fields. And there was one little incident at the fields that was kind of come back to me and that's doing working with the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=137.0,159.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: Agricultural fields","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=160.0,160.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFREDO CORCHADO:  agricultural fields in California, San Joaquin Valley. My parents were members of the Cesar Chavez Union, the Ufw and this TV crew comes up to me one day and start asking me questions, you know, what's it like working in the field without enough drinking water or without enough toilets, and so and so, my mother was terrified that that, that we were going to be deported back to Mexico, even though we had green cards. But that little experience, I think, really left a mark in me. Because later on when I'm at community college, we're trying to figure out what to do with my career, what to do with my education. At first, I thought that, you know, I would be a hairdresser, because I liked the movie shampoo, so much, Warren Beatty. But when this guy said, Look, you could you could maybe you have a curiosity for foreign languages and places, maybe you got to think about a foreign diplomat or maybe a foreign correspondent. And when he explained what that meant, the only thing that would come to mind was someone would pay me to go back to Mexico, because I had left Mexico as a kid. I mean, I was six years old. And there was this interrupted life. And for me, there was this opportunity to come back to Mexico. At the time, El Paso Cuidad Juarez, especially Juarez was a laboratory for change. I mean, people were out in the streets marching, protesting, I was a community college newspaper reporter, but I would spend much of my time in Juarez covering this and later covering for UTEP. I was at the prospector. And that you know, and once you get that little disease, it's not like the flu. It's not like anything else. I mean, it's an incurable disease. And it's journalism. And so from that moment on, I was hooked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=161.0,279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CELESTE GONZALEZ DE BUSTAMANTE: While you just in one of the questions, were asking a little bit about your educational background. I wanted to know like, what was the switch? What made you switch from, from dropping out of high school to to making the decision I want to pursue an education and have a career","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=280.0,299.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'll be very honest, it was a bribe. My mother bribed me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=300.0,305.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So we were talking about your decision to sort of make a change between being a college high school dropout to actually pursuing a career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=306.0,317.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What's the question?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=318.0,319.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What made you make that decision?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=320.0,321.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How do I drop out and how to get back to school. I'm the oldest of nine, my family. And so there was there was a sense of responsibility that I had to try to set the example for the rest. But even then, I still dropped out of school. Not that I wasn't mindful of my parents, sacrifice, you know, to leave everything they knew back in Mexico to give us give us a second chance. But I think my experience in the San Joaquin Valley was seeing all my classmates were seeing other schools graduate. I mean, other kids graduate from school. And many of them at least the ones I knew they weren't going to Berkeley, they were not going to UCLA. Stanford, I mean, they were going back to the fields. I think as a kid, at the time, I was maybe 15 or so I thought, why don't I just drop out of school now. And someday when these kids are graduated, I can be the in my own Gumball, you know, the metal metal. At the time I was. I was in love with the ranch, he was daughter. So I had this you know, these big ideas, these big goals that I would be the main one. Plus. I know this may sound ridiculous. But this was really the turning point. I also wanted, I was in love with the car. And it was like this, this T top is Camaro with the T top, the huge Batman fan. And when my mom kept was kept nagging me and nagging me you got to get back to school, you got to go back to school. And one day we were sitting in Fresno, my father had a catering truck, and we would go to friends and all the time to buy supplies. And so we're sitting in Fresno at a hamburger joint and trying to relax eat my hamburger. I said to my mom, Mr. Mom, see that car over there and it was this Chevy dealership. See that car going around around the carousel? That's my dream. That's my goal in life is to have a car. The reason I make a life in the San Joaquin Valley, and her eyes lit up. She said you know what? Let's make a deal. Three things. We will give you the first three payments, we'll help you with a down payment. But you have to a leave California. Again, all they knew were fields, says I Chavez,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=322.0,480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: too,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=481.0,480.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: to move to Texas, and get an education. Every Christmas we will go to Texas to visit family and quarters in El Paso. And my mother would notice that some Hispanics even wore ties. And that was like a big deal for her. And a lot of people are wearing ties. And three, promise you will you will not get married until you have a diploma. So for the NC give me a week a week to think about because I'll pass the Community College was about to start pasal so for that long week in in, we were living in, in several spa los dos Barlow's that whole area was banners about firebomb and Dota. So for that one long week, I kept going back and forth, you know, do I take the car? Or do I take the girl, car girl, and I took the car, like the car and ended up driving all the way to pestle and then eventually got into community college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=481.0,549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thinking about your work now? Well, as a journalist in all the time that you've covered Mexico and the border, what would you say are the greatest challenges for journalists working in that area right now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=550.0,565.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well, right now, obviously, the biggest challenge is security. Well, I mean, whether you're a Mexican journalist or whether you're an American journalists, security is the biggest challenge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=566.0,578.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Obviously,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=579.0,580.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the security concerns pale in comparison to what a colleague in Mexico faces. But from the time I started journalism, I mean I remember you know, you want to put it this way, the good old days that criss crossing the border that going back and forth. Back then I mean, maybe you look back, you know, kind of what the romantic. There's a lot there's a lot of romanticism of living in El Paso class instancia, Juarez. And you're there all day and night you're visiting colonias. I mean, you're hanging out. I mean, for me, that was reporting and quiet is really understanding. You know, the people that listen live very, very cool, all that stuff that today, you just don't do. And I think, because of those challenges that we face today, oftentimes, we only get a partial view of what's really happening. I always think of these challenges that came in early 2001 2002 2003 2004. I mean, that's when things really got ugly. And that's when I think journalism change in more ways than one. I mean, it wasn't just the security challenges, but it was also the time when the profession started shrinking. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=581.0,677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I mean, we went, for example, at the morning news, we went from a bureau, a staff of 13 people, that included TV, we had Spanish, we had drivers, we had translators, we had I think six, seven, Dallas Morning News correspondence. And suddenly, we just started paring down slowly, slowly, but gradually, to the point where it was just me covering all this. So suddenly, you're you're covering the whole country. And you're covering an area that you're not really you don't really know, I mean, I, I never really consider myself as a reporter. I mean, that was, that was never my deal. So suddenly, you're thrust into this, it's the biggest story of my lifetime, with very little training, very little support, because no one really knew what was happening at the time. So I think the challenge for reports today is, especially when you're young, is to try to understand quickly the lay of the land, quickly understand that you don't have the support system they used to have. And that anytime a situation whether it's no light ever, or car fires can change dramatically. And suddenly, you're on your own.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=678.0,759.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So what do you do? In these circumstances? What do you do to, you know, how do you stay alive, basically, working in those conditions?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=760.0,770.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I mean, you, you learn quickly, I can go on and on about I mean, just my transformation. I mean, my transformation, I came to Mexico, thinking that as a journalist, as someone born in Mexico, someone raised in the United States, I could somehow help bridge the gap of understanding, you know, I mean, I always saw that, that bridge opacified is as, as either something that's going to separate your or something's going to unite you. And I think there's a lot of idealism that goes into being a journalist. And I always thought, you know, I could I could help bridge that gap. I came here thinking, the last thing I want to do is I know that Ohio because someone born born in Mexico, raised in California, but then you live on the border. All these issues are stuff you grew up with, to me. stories about narco traffic contests and so forth was not something that really motivated me didn't really inspire me, I was much more interested in stories about immigration, and stories about Mexico's own democratic process. But covering this today, I mean, it's become really the story. I think, for me the last 10 years. I think the very first thing I've had to learn to do is embrace fear. And I think sometimes when you're journalists, you don't really think about those things. I mean, you're just you're just trying to get to the story. I think the thing I've learned the most is that even even as an American journalist, you have a lot of limits. I mean, there are a lot of limits as to what you can do and not do. For example, we had a rule at Dallas mornings, you know, you try not to use anonymous sources. You try to stay away from that. I think for the longest time we did a pretty good job. But when suddenly people are are dying In knowledge elementary acquires, and people want to tell you stories. Or people will cross the border, from one side to the other to tell you a story, you have to reassess all these rules to try to get these stories are to try to make sure that that these regions do not fall into complete silence. But I've learned, you know, quickly about trusting your own gut instinct, because oftentimes, that's really all you have is your gut instinct at learn the value of, of sourcing on both sides of the border. There's a whole know there's a saying that Mexicans are known for their for being very honest about their dishonesty. And Americans are very dishonest about their honesty. And I think those are some of the gray areas that as a reporter, as especially a US reporter, covering the border has to really understand that not everything is black or white. I mean, you really have to understand the gray areas. And oftentimes you make mistakes, oftentimes, you you do the Monday morning quarterbacking, I should have done this, I should have done that, you know, or maybe I shouldn't have listened to this as much or believe this as much. Because if the goal is to find truth, and that, you know, should be our number one thing. The truth is not on one side or the other. I mean, the truth is really little pieces put together from both sides of the border. And I think as a reporter, you have to have to get as much as you can from Mexico as as in the United States. Again, not everything is black and white, it's understanding gray.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=771.0,1013.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Could you talk about some of the situations that you've had to really make some tough decisions about your own personal safety? Yeah, and what you ended up, you know, deciding how to deal with that situation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1014.0,1035.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I mean, I've had four, I guess, close calls question I will cause some I took more seriously than others. But I think I think I, you learn a lot about yourself, I guess, you know, I mean, I've learned that I'm not at all at all that courageous as a journalist, you know, when the last threat? I mean, I, you're told by and the last part is something I took very seriously because it was it came from a US trusted source. Other threats at come from, you know, whether it was someone calling you on the phone or someone at a bar telling you this or telling you that you still have that little question, you know, whether he's trying to scare you whether it was just a message, but when a US source, someone you trust calls you up and says there's a hidden in American journalists. And I think it to it, that just floored me. I mean, that I remember standing here, I mean, and I was shaking, and you just felt so vulnerable. But it also made me question a lot of the people I had interviewed the people I had trusted, even the source and self trusting whether, you know, they were apt to get me because of what I had written or because I had become sort of the messenger. And it made me rethink a lot of things. Sometimes when you when you work in that world, you know that the dark world it's very easy for someone to not know who you are, and and to kind of go after you I mean to, for example, work in our lives. Oftentimes, I would hear people say, the word on the street is a you, you're a spy for the US government. And once thought when you hear stuff like that, there's not much you can do. You know, and I would always say, Well, if you're talking to this person, or if you're if there's a way to communicate, please say that I'm not, you know, and if there's a way they want to communicate with me that doesn't involve me going across into a parking lot and overloaded. Oh, I'd be happy to, if there's a way that can come across the United States, we can have a Starbucks, let's do that. But I think those were the times when I started getting really, really scared. And I think Angela kucera guy who's a tea reporter. And I think she was very crucial in helping me understand that fear was good. That embracing that fear was important that in some ways I was key to staying in life. And I think once I started doing that, I actually ended up backing away from the story. And I left Mexico for more than a year. And started thinking a lot of the do's and don'ts at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1036.0,1258.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So you were talking about for you, you think that the environment of journalism started to change around early 2000? Most people I think, think it's been a long process, but some people would think maybe it's a little later. But you think that that was started in around the early part of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1259.0,1279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I remember, I mean, for me, it was right after the Mexico's democracy began with people, whether it's right or wrong, they, they put it at July 2000. When we sent the fox comes into office, I left Mexico and went to work in DC, as a correspondent, after 911, it was very clear that we wouldn't have a, a New Mexico United States relationship, ie be sent to Fox and, and George W. Bush. So I started finding, trying to find a way to make my way back to Mexico. And I ended up doing that I think it was late 2003 covering the women acquires I think it was through the women apply this and I began to see how things in Mexico were quickly crumbling, I mean, all that enthusiasm, all that idealism about what democracy meant. It just it me personally, I began to really question a lot of what was happening. And I began to see how the power was shifting from the federal government to more of the states more local, which meant there was a power vacuum. And then looking at the women applied as I began to see how the Narcos who had always been there, I mean, that been there for a long, long time. I mean, going back to the 19, maybe 1940s or so. But suddenly, they were in charge of the city. The narco power was really the people who were controlling, oftentimes, you know, people's daily lives. I think it was the women aquaticus it was seen this whole phenomena that I began to question, the bigger picture, what what is happening if this is happening quite as what's happening in other places. And that's how I ended up covering no lotto, which was suddenly you have these a parameter group known as that does, you have the Gulf Cartel, which at the time, they were one group, and they're taking on the Sinaloa Cartel, and they're using ar 15. grenade launchers in downtown Orlando, I mean, 50 caliber machine guns. And you're thinking, where is the government in what's happening here? I mean, oftentimes, people think of it as as the is started with, with color on. But, but to me, it really started at least from what I started seeing, and some people will even say 2001 2000, but for me, as a witness, it started in 2003 2004. And then 2005, I think was one of the most terrible years in the Nola little region. Obviously, not quite as I think was 2010 but I mean all the all the signs were there I mean, as seeds were planted in that in that time, and then suddenly, after 2008 you start looking at quiet as quiet as explodes and quiet as become sort of the metaphor for the rest of the country. But But I think those signs of endless seeds were planted long before that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1280.0,1493.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So you you mentioned a little bit about the think you're not possibly getting the whole story because of the situation in different parts of the border. So how would you assess the quality of journalism? Maybe talk about Mexican journalism and us?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1494.0,1513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think as a foreign correspondent, especially with the changes in journalism, with the industry shrinking, you depended a lot on unreeling material from other other parts of the country. I mean, I just just kind of contrast that way back in the 90s. At I mean, we had the largest Bureau in Mexico. But we also had all we had network of people throughout the country. Especially places like San Luis Potosi, one cuarto. Hollis go Michoacan, where we're always calling people to find out what was going on. And in fact, we even had like a little news service that would that we would provide. So back then I was felt like I had a pulse of what was happening in Mexico was happening in psychotic. I mean, at the Dallas Morning News, we were very interested in finding out, you know, where people coming from, to kind of make that tie to North Texas, after this happened after the 2000s after the violence began. And papers decided to they were forced to censor themselves. He couldn't call these people anymore a fee. There was also that those questions, you know, can you trust these people? Can you trust them? Because you don't know them? As as well. I mean, back then, you know, maybe with Park naiveness, you know that you could just call and say, sir, let's, what's the story of the day? And some of you start questioning? So let's take in money from these guys. You know, and that I think we began a whole soul searching? And do you go visit them in a community that has just been hard hit or, or jobs have been kidnapped? So all that I think, in fact that us? It doesn't mean that we that we thought every reporter was associated with Narcos, because that's not the case. But we also we, I mean, I guess our thinking, Was there some kind of influence, or reporters who may or may not be willingly working with knackles, or accepting money from Narcos, maybe they were being force. I mean, they couldn't really do much, there wasn't much freedom to do journalism. And I think in my case, I mean, I started visiting people directly. And again, going back to that gut feeling, and, and, and sort of interviewing people, you know, making sure that that there was a real bond, making sure that you could really trust one another. Making sure that these were people who, who, even even on the phone, and the sometimes even we stopped, we even stopped using the phones. I mean, oftentimes, I was like, boys that in decades, can we meet across the border, blah, blah, blah, you know, all these all these little signs to try to help them and help yourself. I mean, it wasn't just about your security anymore, but it's also about their security. So I think it went from having this network of maybe 2030 people across the country to maybe having four or five people. And, and I think when you look at that, you realize that the quality of journalism began to deteriorate, that you could no longer you know, as, as a Mexican journalists, Mexican American, I mean, I still have a hard time saying Mexican American because I acquired I'm a Mexican journalism, but as someone who grew up in that country in the United States and working in Mexico, I used to love","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1514.0,1761.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: another port a bogliasco. You know, you take your car and you just drive all over the country. He drives on his boat to see when a hot dog psychotic as mature can. And you just go to you know, guess what, he has midnight and status and little place. And you and you came back with three or four stories. I mean, you went there for the story you were reporting on, but then you found this great little maybe tourism story, an enterprise story, little cultural story. I mean, you found all this stuff. And you drove back to Mexico City and you thought Wow, that was a really good trip. You know, I really got the lay of the land. Now when you travel, I have a guy who works with me somewhere, he's gonna scope out the map. He's gonna say, Vamos, vamos, Sony photo serums, Monterey, here, the gas stations that that we can maybe stop, because maybe they're not enough corners there. Or maybe it's such a busy area that we can blend in. So you go there. And I mean, these trips are very coordinated, they're very orchestrated, you know, we know the gas station, we're going to stop. And we know we're not going to stop for gorditas or Casa de as we might get lucky and get a Subway sandwich at the stupid gas station, you know. And you travel. And for someone who's been covering Mexico that long, there's an emptiness, you realize that you don't have a real full picture of the situation. And when you talk to people, and they talk to you in code, that's usually a sign that they're not telling you everything. And, you know, do I feel badly? Do I feel like we're not doing leaders of service? Absolutely. I mean, I feel like we're not helping leaders in Texas, because for them, it's not just about narco violence. And so for me, they want to know about little tourism places, they went, Oh, Can Can you pick up your car, you know, Paso, Dallas and drive across the border? And how safe is it? So oftentimes, you feel like you're letting down your reader some, but at the same time, I don't know that they can blame you. They can blame you as an American correspondent, or especially the Mexican correspondent, I mean, oftentimes, Americans will say, I can't believe these people are censoring themselves. And I say, well, believe it. I mean, it's it's a country where the purity rate is over 95% where they haven't really saw one case against a journalist where they can just kill you once they can kill you twice. And no one really seems to give it out. So yeah, I mean, I do get angry when when people question question that. And I'm and and we, I mean, I, I try from time to time to take these, these these road trips. But I see, I see how times, you know, you're not only risking your life, but you're risking the other guy who's helping you drive along, you know, I mean, I was, I mean, you have to kind of question that too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1762.0,1964.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Right. So in terms of the freedom of the press, with this new administration coming in, do you see any changes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1965.0,1973.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I see. I see good and bad. I mean, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1974.0,1978.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: on that, sorry, with the Enrique Pena Nieto administration?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1979.0,1982.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I see. It's very clear to I think a lot of us won't be able to came, took office that they were going to try to change the narrative. And I can completely understand what they're trying to do. I mean, because there are there are other parts of Mexico that I think are doing really well. Maybe not doing maybe that doing really well is not the not the way to put it. But it is a different Mexico is Mexico, whether there are more, there's more prosperity, there are more opportunities. I see that. But I think it's very difficult to walk away from more than 100,000 people who kill what, and there's been very, very little justice. And to say, just to go No, it's it's it's a new narrative. So I think as journalists, I think we have to find a way to balance those two Mexico's and and write about one and write about the other ones. I think security remains a huge, huge issue. Maybe we're not seeing heads rolling like we did a few years ago. But I think it's cartels fracture in a fragment, more and more. The regular guy in the street feels that more extortion, kidnappings and so forth. So I think security remains the big, big. I mean, the big, big challenge, as far as the quality of journalism. I mean, I'm encouraged by places like Mexico City, Monterrey, Guadalajara, and I base it on on 20 years of living off enough in Mexico. You see things today, you you hear things today. You read things today that you just didn't 20 years ago. You see I see more drawers, testing. investigative journalism. I mean really probing really asking questions. People like processable people, like, you know, Kevin out of steggy, sometimes I'm listening to the show, and I'm thinking, wow, they really went after this guy. And they really did all the basic investigative pieces, and they're doing it and they're airing it. And realizing the truth is really the biggest ally. Once you get it out there, it's hard to come back at you. I see what Alianza chanoch has done. And yet she did it for the New York Times. And yet she won a Pulitzer. But I see what Alejandra is doing. Going around to different schools of journalism schools, and teaching kids how to be investigative journalists how to use this, how to use it. So all that I think keeps me very hopeful. It gives me a lot of encouragement. And yet you still see these these other areas where journalists are still censoring themselves because they don't find the protection, or because more than ever again, back to the pre days. They are beholding to advertising dollars, you know, from the government. And they know that they have to tow a certain line in order to to get support. I mean, a few weeks ago, I think you remember this a few weeks ago, there was a it was incredible. And I think this happens a lot. But because of the magic of social media, we people were able to track it nationwide. Same headline in different regions of the country, Mexico, a progress or something like that. I mean, it was that kind of a headline, Mickey cavazza. And it was in in Durango. It was in Chihuahua. It was like a tech as I was calling this Tabasco, I mean, all these newspapers with the same headline. And I thought, wow, talk about the pressure of advertising dollars. Talk about you know, really holding these people, right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=1983.0,2228.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: government advertisement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=2229.0,2230.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, government advertising. I mean, it was like back to the PRI. And that was really troubling. At the same time, you also have the same kind of pressures, the same kind of threats from organized crime. I was in Mobile, Alabama recently. And they had kill the former mayor of noble I don't think I mean, Galvan who also ran a newspaper. They find his body. It was the set us. This is how bad journalism is. I mean, this is how bad being a journalist in olelo is, I was done. And manyana had to ask permission. And other media in Orlando, had to ask the settlers permission to express their condolences to the family have been coming along, you know, a family that also has a newspaper. That was incredible. And that is is, you know, just one little area. But you know, there are other areas in Tamaulipas in Veracruz, maybe some places in Guatemala where you still have either the threat of government, federal government advertising or state government advertising or the threat of the cartels. So it's it's a mixed bag","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=2231.0,2317.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: between two fires basically is a lot of times how they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=2318.0,2321.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: write it's either it's either the government trying to keep you, you know, control you or it's the cartels. And sometimes it's it's really one one in the same. I mean, it's really, it's really both. And I think the cartels have learned a lot from the government, how to control the media, how to control the message. I mean, people think it's all about crossing drugs across the border. It's not I mean, it's by controlling routes. It's about extortionist kidnapping, but more importantly, it's controlling that message, you know, being able to hold that messenger. And they've had good training.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=2322.0,2360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You've talked a lot about normal Laredo, which is, you know, the border is not a monolith. So I was wondering if you could talk about the different areas of the of northern Mexico that you've covered and how they're different. And maybe maybe how they're similar as well. But yeah, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=2361.0,2377.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978/transcript/23273/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: mean, you know, as a and I have, I have no problem saying foreign correspondent, I was thinking, I'm still Mexican, but as a correspondent. When I go into, into Mexico, it's it's all very different. I mean, it's it's the kinds of free idioms that I may have as a journalist depends on another factors. For example, so not quite as has the reputation, the legacy of at one point being, you know, the most dangerous city if not in Mexico in the world, blah, blah, blah. But I always felt safer in quiet as, as a journalist. Whereas in Tamaulipas, anyone Tamaulipas, I don't really feel safe. And I think, as a correspondent, when you when you come into Mexico, it's very, very important to do background, to understand the dynamics to understand who controls that area, that region. So what I'm saying is that in a law cartel, the cartel, not that they're angels or not, but for some reason, I didn't feel as I didn't feel that the tension in those areas, and partly is because these are bigger metropolitan areas, if you are quiet, but I think also because the cartel cartel in their heyday, it was much more about business, it was just, let's get the stuff across. Let's not make too much noise. I mean, when when, when they became a war. Yeah, there were people who were killing innocent people were killed journalists who were killed. But in Orlando, and in Reynosa su Amir, in other parts of Tamaulipas, and even little strips of mobile Leone, especially on the border and in, in, in Karbala. You right away knew that you were dealing with the settlers. And that the danger was that much more palpable. It was it was it was almost in your face. Once you cross the border from, say, Texas into Mexico. You felt like there was a dozen eyes looking at you. You feel like everything you were doing was being closely watch the people you were interviewing, were looking at you like, Are you crazy? interviewing me? Do you understand that by interviewing me, you're putting my life in danger? I mean, it was it was these lessons that you learn quickly? And it was because I think the set does. Maybe it's because of the military background? Or maybe because they just didn't have the kinds of ties to to Colombia or Peru or other countries. I mean, they didn't have all that available cocaine or illicit drugs. I mean, they had to go into other other businesses. But but as an environment, I mean, I felt much, much more in danger, much more than much more of a dangerous, perilous experience and these areas, and then I would say, it's, you know, what country or what is what is country? And that that kind of, I mean, you know, sitting down with other colleagues, you know, we this, okay, a memory almost required as far to get quiet as and then we'll go to the CEO, then we might get to the Leo, or the eagle pass area, bit as negative as soon as I can. Yeah. And then, you know, you start looking at disease in the white as it's in the law, and that would determine how much freedom we would have as reporters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1285/collection_resources/35699/file/104978#t=2378.0,2380.0"}]}]}]}