{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/1g0ht2hq2n/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Dr. William (Bill) Havens interview"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["King, Chad (interviewer)","Carrasco, Anita (interviewer)","Havens, Dr. William (Bill) (interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2003 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Arizona (spatial)","21st Century (temporal)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes, interview 6"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audiocassettes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["MS397.006 (uid)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes (part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Landscape architecture","Landscapes -- Arizona -- Tucson Region -- Pictorial works","Oral history -- Arizona","Urban beautification -- Arizona -- Tucson"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["interview"]}}],"summary":{"en":["University of Arizona Campus Landscape oral history audio cassettes, interview 6"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright The Arizona Board of Regents."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Arizona Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/038/original/university-libraries-logo-2x.png?1711560609","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - azu_ms397-006_side1_a.mp3"]},"duration":2845.54768,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/243/864/original/azu_ms397-006_side1_a.mp3?1719873936","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2845.54768,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Dr. William (Bill) Havens transcript, side 1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Hello, okay, I sort of had two different stints. Excuse me, my role was really mostly administration for many years, and then as a faculty member, and because Warren and Libby and a bunch of other people were so involved with the campus, as I told you, I really wasn't involved in campus planning, other than or the campus landscape, I mean, other than a little bit of campus planning. I sat in on some meetings when they were discussing, oh, I think some, some new buildings that. But this is a long, long, long time ago. I don't even remember which buildings or when that was, probably was in the 80s sometime, but what I have done is been here since 1975 and have observed what has happened to Landscape Architecture and some of the Allied professions, and certainly seen a tremendous growth In Tucson and southern Arizona. Unbelievable change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=5.0,100.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Lot of a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=101.0,102.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: lot of my involvement really was dealing with hiring and seeking and hiring faculty and curriculum issues, because we, we went through several iterations. We this. This program had started out with horticulture Plant Sciences back in the late 60s, I think they were a combined Department of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture, or something like that. And in 1975 they created the school of renewable natural resources. You may have heard of that and know about that school of renewable natural resources, partly out of the you know how much growth had occurred in the environmental movement in the 60s and 70s. So this school of renewable natural resources was created with seven programs, one of which in 1975 which is when I came here, when the school was created, one of which was landscape architecture. So the others were, I think at that time, there was watershed management, there was wildlife ecology, there was forestry, I think it was forestry and fisheries or something like, no, there's wildlife ecology and fisheries, wildlife resources. They changed. These have all changed now. Now it came down to four programs, and then in 1997 when Dick Arribas became dean of Architecture, Landscape Architecture moved from the College of Agriculture To the College of Architecture. And about that same time, well, curriculum wise, in 1975 when I came here, there was a four year Bachelor of Science and a Master of Science degree. I immediately moved the program to be a five year professional undergraduate, Bachelor of landscape architecture, not a BS, but a bachelor of landscape professional degree, just like architecture,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=103.0,251.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Bachelor of architecture. So we moved in 19 about 1977 or 78 we moved to VLA and the MO professional masters. And then in 1997 we actually, because of budget cuts in the early 90s, you know, the university went through terrible stress. Seems like we're doing it again now,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=252.0,282.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=283.0,285.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: we had to make a choice between the bachelors and the masters program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=286.0,289.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We didn't have enough money,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=290.0,292.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: literally, to fund two quality programs. So. Since ASU had started the landscape architecture undergraduate program in Phoenix, Tempe, we decided, why? Why should there be two undergraduate programs in the state and no graduate program? So we decided, okay, let Tempe have the undergraduate program and we'll have the graduate program. So that's why landscape architecture is a master's only program. But you can imagine the impact we had like 225 undergraduate students in landscape architect, big program, and about 50 graduate students. So we eliminated all those undergraduate students. So we downsized Landscape Architecture just about the time that the university was deciding to eliminate programs that were small.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=293.0,354.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So we sort of cut the we chopped the tray out from under, as you know, if you think about that pretty dumb move, anyway,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=355.0,364.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all throughout this time we did retain there was a man named Charlie sakamano. You may have heard him. Dr Charles sakamano. He was in the horticulture Plant Sciences Department had a TV show back in the 70s called Sacramento's garden. Very, very well received, and Charlie did a lot of public speaking, probably, I mean, this should be something that should be in the Arboretum campus history, because Charlie was was so instrumental in bringing attention to the plant materials of the desert. So and Charlie had written several books, and he wrote one with Warren Jones. In fact, they just plants. Just published it. Warren wrote a book with Mary Rose Duffield. He said she'd been interviewed. It's called plants for dry climates. And then Charlie and Warren had worked on a book for 10 years, and they could never finish it, because all the nurseries that were introducing new plants for the desert, wanted their plants in the book, right, because it would publicize it. So they kept adding these new plants. And finally they said, Whoa, we'll never get this book published if we keep waiting for you guys to bring it out new plants. So they finally did it, and it's been a very good success, and I can't remember the name of it, but Charlie sakamano, you do? You have any contact with Libby Davidson at all? Okay, ask Libby what's happening with the information from Charlie sakamano, or about Charlie because his sakamotos garden, I think, brought a lot of prestige the TV show to the University of Arizona, and made a lot of people aware of the campus, because he talked a lot about the plants on campus. I'm really surprised that in a history of the campus that Charlie's not part of, that he would be a very good person. Now, he lives in Mexico, down by, down by Puerto Vallarta, unless you want to feel sure down there to interview you should do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=365.0,513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, you two should go to interview Charlie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=514.0,516.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He's a great guy, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=517.0,518.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he's lived down there for umpteen years. So Charlie was instrumental in the 70s, late 70s, probably early 80s. So that's another name. There was one of the things that Warren Jones did that was very important,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=519.0,549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: he identified a concept called the urban oasis,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=550.0,557.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: or, Well, no,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=558.0,558.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: let's say larger than that, the urban oasis was one of about five categories of zones in the desert environment. In other words, on the one extreme, we have the natural desert out there, untouched by humans. In the other extreme, we have the most urbanized place that we can think of. In other words, take, take one of the little gardens here on campus. Or take, you know, a city hall or the county building. Something down there. You know, their their grounds, very urbanized, not desert at all. And what Warren developed as a notion was the the idea, you know, the oasis in the desert, when the camel stops in the water and the palm trees and all that, this sort of lush Eden was okay in small, intimate places like outside your your home or your office or the entrance to your home or office. It was okay to to use plant materials in this lush kind of way. And I think if you look at the campus, you may see some of that expressed near building entrances and in courtyards and so forth. So the notion of the urban oasis. Then, between the urban oasis and the pure desert, there were three other zones, and you would call those transitional zones, and I think this was pretty much used applied to the campus. You may or may not know that, especially in some of the land, grab institutions in the east and Midwest, the campuses, the whole campus is an arboretum. I mean, they don't have a, oh, this is an arboretum over here. And campuses over here, they considered like, you know, University of Massachusetts, University of Michigan, you know, big universities. They consider the whole campus Cornell as has a as an arboretum. What they did is they introduced not only local plant materials, but plants from all over the world. So the students, botany, horticulture, plant sciences, biology, all those students would have access to plants from around the world. I think that one of the things that Warren Jones did and Charlie Sakamoto is they started importing plants from other arid regions, Latin America and the Middle East, predominantly, they started introducing on campus here, plant materials that, like from Chile, you know, or Mexico or Venezuela somewhere, not much area, but Middle East. You know, the Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Jordan, and those kind of places. A lot of the plants and Margaret, by the way, has been over there doing some research and giving some lectures in the Middle East, so she's got some fascinating stories about that. Anyway, they started introducing these plants. Now there's a man up in Phoenix, and I don't know if Libby has mentioned Mountain States nursery. Mountain States nursery, and I just went blank. I can see what's his name. Anyway, he took a lot of the plants that Charlie and Lauren introduced on campus, and cross, what are they called hybridization, where they take two different plants and they use the root stop of one and the plant of another. So he's developed all these patented plants. So that was, that was a big leap from from some of the things on campus here, and some of the plants that Warren Jones and Charlie Sacramento imported,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=559.0,859.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that tipped my tongue. It probably come to me after we finished. Anyway, he's been developing plants, and I think some of those have been reintroduced in the Tucson environment, maybe some even on campus to test them out. In other words, if he wants to see what they do for five years before he starts","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=860.0,883.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: selling them to the public good, he's a wholesale grower. That's all he does. But he's done a lot of research. Come to me a minute, but, but you really maybe want to follow","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=884.0,897.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: that lead to or have Libby. Follow the Mountain States nursery and the link with Warren and Charlie Sacramento, because I think that all kind of ties together with the campus. In other words, they were all doing this at the same time, one of the first projects in Tucson, in fact, maybe the first large project in Tucson that utilized the zoning concept, the transitional and the Oasis and the transitional zones, and all was the IBM plan out on Rita road. I mean, if you've ever been out there, that thing is massive. You know, it has these buildings that are like a quarter of a mile square, and there's about six or seven of them, and they're in checkerboard, and they're along a spine, and so in between all these big buildings are these courtyards. So it was a perfect place to use this concept of zoning that was developed on the campus by Warren, and maybe Chuck Richmond was involved, I don't know. Anyway, the idea that there would be urban oases, little courtyards for people to have coffee breaks and eat lunch and so forth, and then it would go into the transition zones and then out into the natural desert. And it's very clear, if you ever go out there, I think the university bought some of that, or released it, or something, technology part, yeah, IBM still has some of it, but it's a it's a very good example. And Larry Zukowski was the landscape architect on that here in town, and Larry still practices, although he's kind of slowly phasing out. He's been around a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=898.0,1006.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So do you see what Warren had been doing as a as a major change from what had been done on campus previously? Yes,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1007.0,1013.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: very definitely. Because Warren was the first one really, I think, to actively introduce Warren and Charlie plants from other regions of the world. It had been more or less common plants that were used, you know, and a lot of people, when they came out from the east or Midwest, they brought their plants with them, you know, try to mount lawn and lilac and all these other things you know. And see, most people really, I mean, the desert was hostile to them. They it was a foreign place, and they didn't embrace it. Nobody lived in the desert. I mean, they they thought the desert was kind of evil, you know. So I think what Warren and Charlie did on campus and Chuck Raisman supported that was they tried to show that plants from desert regions could be used in the landscape, in the urban landscape, and they're very attractive, and they take very little water, and they're very low maintenance, and they're not affected by bugs and so forth. So I think they really made a significant impact. Now obviously, think about all of our students going through the program. And Warren had a lot of the plant sciences student, horticulture students taking his courses, just like Margaret does now. How many people did they influence over 30 years that went out in all over Arizona to practice and so, you know, think about all the places that they've touched with this knowledge of zoning and sensitivity, the ecological sensitivity, you know, so tremendous impact. So it really had a tremendous impact, I think, throughout the southwest, because we've got alumni in New Mexico and California and Utah and Colorado and, you know, so other Arab regions. In other words, Nevada, a lot of them are Nevada. So I think that what happened, you know, here on campus, not only happens internally on campus, but influenced a lot of other places. So that's that's kind of nice, and the campus then became a laboratory for teaching these principles. And I think Margaret still continues that she teaches a course. She teaches the basic course on ecology. I think your PhDs in ecology are what's in natural resources, but I think it's more ecology based. You know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1014.0,1194.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm trying to, I know I'm not talking about myself, but. As I said, I don't, I didn't, I didn't do much, but, but I remember, you know, some of these events in the history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1195.0,1208.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So it sounds like, when you got here, it was a transitional time, very much on campus, with the arboretum or the landscaping as well. Well,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1209.0,1218.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I yeah, I think, I think that, you know, the, you know, they had flood irrigation and all that. That's a part of the historical part of campus and all that. I I don't think that people much thought about water use in in the cities itself, you know, in the urban areas like campus and everything, because if you look at it as you know, it was all grass and flood irrigation and big trees and all that. I don't think that water resource conservation at all really grabbed hold until probably the late 60s. You know, the ecology movement. Before 1960 nobody even used the word ecology. They didn't know what it meant. You know Howard Odom down in Georgia and a few other people were ecologists. It was during the 60s, I think, that all those federal programs, millions and millions of dollars, that flowed into development and the concern, you know, recreation and all those kinds of things where they were impacting the natural environment. And there were all these people starting to say, Whoa, you know, you remember Rachel Carson's Silent Spring and all all those books that were written right in there. Look what we're doing to the environment. And so I think, I think what happened was, in the 1960s the awareness really happened here on campus, and they started hiring faculty, for example, who were knowledgeable and sensitive in ecological issues. And I'm talking much beyond, you know, people in political science, politicians, you know that that were concerned also that. I mean, in law school, it wasn't just Horticulture and Landscape Architecture and a few other biology and, well, I mean, it was across the board. You know, you got social scientists who actually were concerned about the relationship between the environment well, the whole field of environmental psychology, it just blossomed in the late 60s, and nobody even knew what environmental psychology was. In fact, it wasn't even treated as it was treated as a pseudoscience, you know, until the 1970s when, believe it or not, the University of Arizona had five of the world's top, leading environmental psychologists. Right here, we became a center for the University of Arizona. Was Columbia University, University of Arizona. There were two or three. So it's really interesting, and all this stuff, it really kind of came together. That's what I really want to say. You know, it started blossoming, flowering in the early 70s. And that's, that's, of course, when they were worn with doing some work in the Middle East. And he brought back a bunch of plants. He and Charlie went down to Latin America and South America and brought back a bunch of plants, and they started planting them on campus. And of course, now these plants, if you go around campus, that was what middle 70s. Maybe this is 25 years later. Some of these things are huge, you know. And most of them now are fairly common, commonly known and commonly used, you know. So I think there was a tremendous influence that all started really, really developed during the 70s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1219.0,1456.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Previous to that, was there any Would you say there was any given landscape style on campus? Oh, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1457.0,1462.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: think so. Yeah, I think it was pretty traditional of college university campuses everywhere, mostly turf and trees. Mean that, you know, when you think about, when you when you have the image of a park, you think of grass and trees, right? I mean, all over the world Park, when you say Park to somebody, they think, oh, grass and trees. I think campuses were that same way. The only difference is, campus have a lot of big buildings, so you've got big buildings and grass and trees. It, and that's what this campus was. And part of that flood irrigation system, you know, was the grass. I mean, how do you irrigate huge areas of grass, exorbitant expense of grass. I mean, of water, because evaporation rates, you know what? We lose the average swimming pool in Tucson loses nine feet of water a year to evaporation. So when you flood this huge area of campus in the summer, which is predominantly when you need the water, I mean, you've got tremendous evaporation. And from the human comfort level, think about increasing the humidity. I mean, you got the 105 degree heat, and you're flooding the campus, and then there was mosquitoes. Think about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1463.0,1552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: all the problems that happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1553.0,1556.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: There was a definite style, and somebody made a decision many, many, many years ago. I don't know if you've been on very many college campuses, but you either, you either, either get one of two conditions on campuses. Somebody makes a decision that all the buildings are going to be a red brick, which is what this campus was, or I or they try to make each building unique, so it looks like, what's the word oleo hodgepodge? You know, it's just a collection of buildings. And there think about the challenge of trying to tie together this collection of buildings by using the landscape the campus, the non building part, to link it all together, to make some kind of coherence out of so you can see how important the landscape on a campus is when you've got a bunch of buildings that are different. Now this this campus, all the original buildings were brick. So you had unity, in a sense. I mean, you had some variety in the architectural expressions. The styles and so forth were a little different, but they were all of the same basic material and color. So then that allows the landscape to really, pretty much be whatever it wants to be. Now, obviously, the easiest maintenance in a way. And I don't know if you somebody, anybody's talked about this, but maintenance is a very big issue on campus. You know, you've got, you've got constant growth of everything. You've got constant use. Students are everywhere. And even though we like to think people use trash cans and everything else, you know, you get litter everywhere. And so maintenance is and safety now, I mean, you've got bushy shrubs where people can hide in very unsafe you know, and lighting is critical. So if you start thinking about all these things, I'm not really probably helping you with respect to the paper or the study, but, but these are all critical issues and and I think when you grow a campus, it just exacerbates the problem. And that's what's happened. Look at, look at what's happening. You know, it's just so I think there was an ecological awareness understanding, which also has an economic dimension to it. Very definitely there was a maintenance issue. And then there's the issue of growth. When you start increasing the numbers of people on campus, numbers of cars, you start, you get, you start getting conflicts. You start getting wear and tear of everything. So maintenance becomes even more important. And I think, I think one of the things that that Warren was very concerned about was not only bringing plant materials that were adapted to the desert environment, but that were also low maintenance, because it costs money, you know, to prune and rake and mow and clean up and all the stuff that you do. So I think there was a whole dimension of maintenance. If you look at a park system, any park system in the world, they're going to have two great categories of budget items. One is called operations. One is called maintenance. Every Park Agency. In the world has this operations is all the programs and the people that are hired and all the activities they do and everything. And then maintenance is keeping everything so that all these activities can occur. You know, changing light bulbs, all the things you have to do. Same thing on campus and you know, with these budget cuts and everything you know, maintenance is, what do you do? You know, the first when you have a severe budget cut, you know, what are some of the first things you start thinking about cutting and maintenance is one of the, you know, we'll cut down on the number of janitors, or will cut down on the number of maintenance or grounds personnel and so forth, you know, but instead of four janitors, we'll have three. And I think that's what's happened at the same time that new buildings have been built, and more students have come and, you know, I mean, it's like, whoa. Something's out of balance here. And so there was, I know, even, even over in architecture, they were very sensitive to this in terms of designing the buildings, you know, trying to, trying to design buildings that weren't difficult to operate and maintain, still had esthetic amenities, you know, and so forth, but, and met the functional needs, but, But I think, I think one of the things I it at some point, maintenance and those kinds of concerns became important, ecology and maintenance so forth, except in the 90s, when everybody had all this money. And when you have money, you can throw away things you don't, you know, you don't take much care of things. Buy a new, you know, throw it away. So I think a lot of that happened on campus. There was a lot of this, oh, we got so much money, you know. I mean, just the economy was bubbling growing. There was money coming in the university. They built all these research labs. They employed all these highly paid research professors. I mean, an 150 200,000 a year salaries, set them up with a lab and doctoral students and all. And you got a million dollars invested in each faculty member. You know, you hire a new faculty member, not only to pay that faculty member, but you've got to hire all the other stuff, and you've got to build the space in a lab for that person. They did all that in between 95 and 2000 or, you know, in the in there the mid 90s on campus. Well, where did that money come from? I mean, you've got, you've got X number of dollars to spend, and you decide to spend so much of it on this high priced, high tech stuff, which brings world famous prestige to the university. You still got the infrastructure and all that to maintain","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1557.0,1992.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so well during that time. Then did I mean, was there a change from Warren's policies to Was there another shift after Warren to a different landscape philosophy on campuses? I don't think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=1993.0,2005.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so, but I think that, I think that it kind of became ordinary and waned a little bit, and because, you know, things become kind of matter of fact and you have other interests. And that's, I guess that's what I'm saying, is focus around campus shifted to high tech, and, you know, we saw optical sciences in the medical college. I mean, if you watch the growth of the medical college over here, and still growing. I mean, it's still building the nursing college. We build a new one. I mean, just unbelievable, the explosion. How many biological science buildings are there now? Or, you know, atmospheric sciences, biosciences, gosh, you know, you east and west and all those on campus. I think that. I think there. I think what happened, it wasn't that there was a change in philosophy. I think it was a shift in the use of resources, so that and Chuck Raisman would be a wonderful person to know the history of this, but, but I think those budgets were stressed because all this money was being spent elsewhere, and I think that affected the campus environment. You know, in other words, there was some development in. There were some projects on campus that were going on. Oh, are you talking to Susan Bartlett at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2006.0,2113.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: She is the Susan Bartlett is over in the what's the building on Euclid called, it's called University services building or something. It's across. It's behind the Marion hotel there, that huge building. It's the administration. Susan has has been involved. She, she's a Susan was a camp a city planner for many, many, many years, until she came to the university as a campus planner. And her father was head of psychology from umpteen years. And so she knows this campus, but she is the campus planner who's been in charge of, like, the, you know, the the freshman underground mall, the building, everything, all, all of that. Susan's been involved with everything, I would say, since 1990 she could give you the best perspective on what's been going on on the University of Arizona campus of anybody. And Susan is such a nice person. She is so easy to talk with. I don't want to make more work for you, but if you really want to be thorough, she would be a tremendous resource, because she knows so much. She knows so many people. She was a Tucson city planner for probably 15 years before she came to the campus. Now, Eric was on the campus for many years as a landscape architect, so he was involved. But Susan, Susan really is campus planner. I mean, she's the person,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2114.0,2221.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, it really, overall, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2222.0,2223.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: yeah, yeah. The guy that's in charge of that, I wouldn't talk to him. I talked to Susan. She knows more than anybody. Susan would be a good person. Susan Bartlett is there campus phone book? I don't think don't mean to oh, I'm curious what our title is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2224.0,2268.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Let me see if I Jerry Smith from Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo is out there one of my 30 year colleague, friends. I didn't realize he was out there. B, A R T,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2269.0,2291.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: L, E, T, T, B, A R T. Here we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2292.0,2300.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: go. Susan W Bartlett, oh, she's called University campus environmental planner, and it's University services annex. Oh, that may be somewhere else, 419, let me give you her phone number, and you can definitely tell her that I suggested you call her okay. But she's, she's one of our alumni. She did both her Bachelor's and Master's with us. 6264412,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2301.0,2334.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Susan Bartlett, very, very special person, but mainly she's got such a historical knowledge of this campus, so she'd be a good one. And especially through the 90s, because, you know, dorms and all huge buildings were built when she was here. And the campus expansion is going down north of Speedway and all over here, all this stuff that's happening","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2335.0,2361.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: during the time. Yeah, so is there a general feeling then that during this boom time of building that the landscape kind of got stalled out at the place where Warren had brought it to?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2362.0,2377.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2378.0,2380.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't think a lot of development or change occurred, and probably because there wasn't a lot of money, you know, I think some of those concepts and principles that were developed in the 1970s were applied. Arrived fairly aggressively in the 80s, and then in the 90s, I think it was a lot of issue of just maintenance, because I don't, I don't think from from my sense of seeing what was going on campus, there were a lot of buildings, a lot of parking structures, a lot of changing of sidewalks and those kinds of things. And of course, when you change patterns and circulation and all that, you obviously have put in new sidewalks, and then you have to redo planning and so forth. Now, Margaret did a couple of she and her students have done two or three nice little gardens all over campus. And you should talk to her about that, because she's used her plant materials class to as a teaching but then the campus benefits. You know, the campus has really benefited. I think there were some kind of episodic things, like the athletic department, you know, did that little garden outside of the ticket office over there. And I think Larry zakowski may have done that. And if you're interviewing Eric sharp, he will know some of the projects that he was involved in, because when they built that new science complex and the new federal building over there on Sixth Street and all that, you know, park and all those big buildings, they had to redo the landscape. But if you go in there and look at it, it's pretty brutal some ways. I mean, it's, it's kind of gravel and concrete and a few plants, you know, which not awfully inviting in the desert environment, not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2381.0,2510.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: following the many, many Oasis idea. Now, there's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2511.0,2513.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a lot of controversy on the mall, of course, and there always has been, because that's the center of campus. The mall is other than the focus, you know, and they're probably some of the historic buildings that they're they're very reluctant to make changes, or whatever, you know around them. I know they did change that flood irrigation at one point, and that was, I think, at one point, on the Historic Register or something. It was, it was a historic thing, you know, now, I don't know if they kept one as an example or something. It seems like they kept something over there in front of the whole library. Did","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2514.0,2549.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they kept the actual practice of flood irrigation? Oh, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2550.0,2552.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: don't think so. I think they put in sprinklers, but they left the berms, yeah, in front of the Anthropology Museum, the two, you know, there's, there's two of them, where Ray Thompson had his office, whatever the that's a history, yeah, Museum of Natural History.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2553.0,2571.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Or, I think they may, I think the berms may have been included with the historical right designation. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2572.0,2576.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they kept the berms, but they completed an irrigation system,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2577.0,2579.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so some of that happening when Warren was here to a change from the flood irrigation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2580.0,2584.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Oh, yeah. Oh, that's that time. I don't think he had anything to do with that. I think it was, I think it was a necessity to install, well first, first of all, the technology for sprinkler irrigation was advanced enough, you know, that they could do away with the flood irrigation and a one time cost of installing a system. Then over a period of years, you amortize that cost, and it's probably a big saving. We were in Herron Hall for umpteen years. And landscape architecture, in fact, I think we vacated here. It was structurally unsafe. It started to you see cracks. You can see blue light through the walls. It's a two story building, actually a three story basement, but it's two story building, which the first store, first floor was double brick, and then the second was was single brick. But there's no, no building up there. It's just big hollow space, and they had these single brick walls tied together with steel rods. And, you know, over time, the walls start to deteriorate. They settle and crack and move and everything else. And there were places where you could see daylight through the walls. And so the health and safety people said, you know, you can't have students in here until you spend rehabilitated, and it was going to be, I can't remember, $900,000 or something like that, to renovate it, to make it safe. And nobody had that kind of money. So we moved over to one. Used to be the first interstate bank at or general bins has it. Now that's where General bins is. That was our building, and they gutted it and put a second story on. So we were over there for many years, until we moved into this former church, Grace, Saint Paul. So see was this called grace. I don't remember when we moved in here, probably about 95 or something like that. It's your student. Loved it because it I don't know if you looked at the space out there, but it's a wonderful space to work in. It's a nice building, in a way, and the foundation bought this building, so they're going to tear it down someday, unfortunately, and I don't know we're supposed to go over and join an architecture in a new building, but all the budget cuts of the last two or three years have put that on hold. They were going to build an addition to the architecture College in that parking lot east of architecture, and it was supposed to house us and planning. But of course, now planning has moved over to public health part of the medical college or something. Now, anyway,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2585.0,2780.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so you mentioned before that you weren't involved in a whole I mean, you had done maybe some consulting on campus with some of the design,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2781.0,2787.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864/transcript/68342/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: not really, no, I because Warren and everybody else was was involved in it. I didn't really do that. I mean, I, I was involved in education and administration. You know, I was really totally caught up in the program here, and I did a lot of state and national professional activities. I was on many, many committees and so forth. President of the International Scholarship society and sigma alpha, the professional fraternity, president of the Council of educators and landscape architecture, which is the worldwide educators organization and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243864#t=2788.0,2790.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - azu_ms397-006_side2_a.mp3"]},"duration":1057.54443,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arizona.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/243/835/original/azu_ms397-006_side2_a.mp3?1719857164","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1057.54443,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Dr. William (Bill) Havens transcript, side 2 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay, I was really involved in statewide and national, international activities, semester","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=1.0,7.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: management, some teaching here or I,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=8.0,10.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I taught. I always taught a couple of classes a semester, okay, throughout my whole time, but mostly, mostly administration and a lot of public service kind of activity, so professional society and professional organizations and so forth. So I really wasn't, you know, involved directly. Do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=11.0,37.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: you never find it in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=38.0,39.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the tree? No, I've never done anything like that. I observed and talked to people and so forth. But, you know, never direct involvement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=40.0,48.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Have a lot of your students gone on to be fairly involved with the campus grounds of that sort of well, Susan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=49.0,55.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and Mark Novak both. Mark Novak works with Susan. He's one of our alumni, so yes, and then, of course, Eric sharp was one of our alumni, and Eric was with the campus for many years, so our students have had and Margaret has had major impact on the campus. Margaret, Livingston, I've served on a lot of committees with people in horticulture and plant sciences and other agriculture. You know, when I was over in the School of renewable energy resources, I was on a lot of committees with with university committees, with people in agriculture and plant sciences and all that. So I got, I know, I knew them, and, you know, kind of just followed what was going on, not directly involved. That was what I was concerned when you called me and oh, boy, I don't think I've, I've had any direct involvement or made any decisions about the campus. I we had an activity for many years of going all over the state of Arizona with advising mostly cities and, well, yeah, mostly advising small towns about their town environments. And a lot of that involved redevelopment, redesign and economic development and that sort of thing. So we did a lot of that with the students, and also I did a lot of consulting all over all the Stafford and Bisbee and and, oh gosh, all Casa Grande, all that. If you look all over the place, you know, we've had some impact on on those towns, and that continues as a public service kind of activity. So we the campus, the landscape architects on campus, faculty and students have affected a lot of the Arizona community off the towns and cities all over the state, and that that was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=56.0,192.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: in most cases, pro bono kind","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=193.0,194.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: of work. You know, it wasn't, there wasn't remuneration, you weren't paid for that. It was part of your university responsibility to go out and advise these people, little cops and, gosh, all these towns in southeastern Arizona, down, you know, all over the place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=195.0,217.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So is there any project out of all this, that you'd identify as your most important worker project or one that stood out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=218.0,226.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: None of them. I don't mean to belittle or mean any of them, but there's no one that really stands out because each one had unique needs and interests, and we, you know, resolved those needs and interests, we would meet, usually with the mayor and council or the park director or the city planner, you know, somebody like that. And often it led to specific projects for the students to work on. So the students got to learn real world have real world experiences with real people. And so it was very valuable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=227.0,276.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But of course, that's not really focusing on the University of Arizona campus,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=277.0,279.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: but at the same time, it sounds like the students from the campus quite potentially, took what they saw on campus and really read it throughout the Oh yeah, Arizona, the southwest. And sounds like possibly the world and some of that we've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=280.0,294.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: had a lot of we have a lot of students from. Middle East. We've had a lot from Latin American countries, and we've had a lot from like Malaysia and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=295.0,309.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: those you know, they're,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=310.0,312.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they're parts of that the Muslim world there that really had no landscape architecture, and we benefited greatly from a lot of those students. I mean, a lot of them coming here to our program. So we have a lot of students around the world, Japan, Australia, New Zealand. Gosh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=313.0,339.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think the university is establishing, I think Dick Ares and Ron Stoltz, who's now the director here, has just come back from Chile, and they're establishing a relationship down there with two of the universities, very strong relationship with Chile. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=340.0,360.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: so if you had to evaluate the changes you've seen on the campus while you've been here, would you cast them in a positive or negative way? I'd","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=361.0,369.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: say positive, yeah, because I think there's been a lot of learning and a lot of benefit from that. So I would, I would definitely say positive. I think, I think the campus has changed for the better, generally,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=370.0,392.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and as a specific you point would you point it mostly towards? I mean, are there other influences besides Warren? Warren's major changes, or would those be the main I'm sure there are,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=393.0,405.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and I'm sure I'm omitting people that others would know that. I mean, Chuck Raisman, for example, is definitely going to be a knowledgeable person about who all was involved. But I think Susan Bartlett would also be, because Susan has has really been right in the middle of everything. So, I mean, I'm probably missing some people. I'm probably being relatively simplistic in my experience and observation, you know, because it's pragmatic, it's not really. I really wasn't in the middle of it. I was really observing it as a kind of arm's length situation. Something","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=406.0,453.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: just ran through my mind. We were talking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=454.0,461.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I Well, you know, you start looking at all the systems, I was thinking about, parking, transportation, and all the other impacts on the campus that affect the campus environment. You know, there are just a lot of things. There have been a lot of changes that way too. I mean, they had to close roads and reroute roads and shift things around because of parking changes and circulation patterns and all that and that that definitely has a major impact on the campus environment. So there are things, there are things that landscape architects didn't control at all, you know, they you sort of come in and clean up the situation afterwards. It's kind of like repair, you know. Now we've done this, make it beautiful, you know. And, you know, that's what landscaping, you know, make it beautiful. And I think there's been some of that so that if there's a negative, in a way, that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=462.0,531.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the very best of all worlds is when everybody sits down together and plans the future. That's not always what happens. You get one group of people making decisions and doing things that then there are consequences that cause others to be brought in. Just like I said, you have to bring in landscape architects after the fact to make it beautiful, and that's kind of the worst case situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=532.0,571.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: So is it fair to say that? I mean, I guess I have a hard time distinguishing sometimes between the science of landscape architecture and what we've seen on campus. But is it fair to say that campus has been an influence on landscape architecture as a whole? Changes that have happened here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=572.0,596.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I would almost reverse that and. Say this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=597.0,602.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: landscape architects have had influence on campus, mostly, rather than the other way around. Now, as I said, obviously, a lot of things are developed and designed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=603.0,621.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: without input from landscape architects on campus,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=622.0,626.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and then landscape architects have been brought into to landscape that's not the best of all worlds, because there have been decisions made that had you been on initial planning, you would have done things differently so that it all worked as a system. You know, it would all hung together. There was unity. The problem is that, you know, when you do things pragmatically,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=627.0,658.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it's hard to get the appearance of unity or the actuality of unity. And I think, I think there's been some downside that way on campus, that some things have been done. You know that. But I think people like Chuck Raisman and others have been very sensitive to this. I mean, I think they've,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=659.0,677.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: they've brought in Warren and others, you know, practicing landscape architects in town and all on many, many projects. So overall, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=678.0,688.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: think it's positive. I think most of the things have been very positive. I want to definitely leave that impression with you, not that it's a bunch of problems. It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=689.0,708.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I didn't think I'd have anything to say this is good. Well, I I hope that some of it is helpful. The what, when? When I came in 75 there were only about two people practicing landscape architecture in the city of Tucson. Now","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=709.0,733.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: there are hundreds. There were, there were probably one or two in Phoenix. I'm talking really in 75 there are only one or two people practicing Landscape Architecture now, literally, there are hundreds and hundreds, you know, in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=734.0,747.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: the state of Arizona. So that's you can imagine the impact of of our graduates we have. What do we have? I can't remember how many. I tell you that once how many alumni we have, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=748.0,766.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: it's just shocking. And a lot of them have stayed in Tucson and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=767.0,774.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Phoenix and other places, mostly Tucson and Phoenix. So there's one or two of in Flagstaff, there's one or two in Prescott, mostly Phoenix, you know, because that's such a big metro area. But I think you know that they all take the learning and images from the campus here with them. So it has had an impact,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=775.0,798.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: and you were really brought in to facilitate that change, I guess,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=799.0,804.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: well, to build up the Landscape Architecture program. Yeah, it. It was a small, fledgling program from about 1969 to 1974 and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=805.0,818.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: then in 1974 they advertised for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=819.0,821.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: a real head to come in and build the program, and that's when I was hired. In 74 I didn't come until January 75 but at that point, we really switched the program to professional program, and we've got all these students coming in all over the world, literally grew it like crazy. And so, yeah, that that was the growth of the of the profession here. And then we started graduating people, you know, over the years, and it's, it's ebbed and flowed slightly because of budget to constraints, but by and large, you know, we continue to get better and better. When the accreditation team left here in 1979 this was a national accreditation team. They said, We have the best new program in the United States. That was their unequivocal best Landscape Architecture program in the United States. So that was pretty good to start out with that and beginning, you know, and I think, I think faculty, everybody has maintained quality quite, quite well. Some of the. Like er zby was world famous. I mean, he went all over the world. One of our faculty, he died his last year of Alzheimer's, but our Alzheimer's complications, but very, very famous person made a lot of impact. Had so many interests, very famous landscape architect. You know, really, we consider ERB Zuby to be the father of research in landscape architecture in the world. I mean, everybody attributes that anywhere in the world. Say, Arab zooby is the father of landscape architectural research. He's just a profound person. So he was one of our faculty. And then Warren, of course, became world famous because of the arid lands, plants and so forth. But I think, I think if you interview Susan and Margaret, they can give you some really additional dimensions. As I said, I don't want to increase your workload, but I think you'll get some information from them that nobody else has five o'clock. I hope it's been helpful. Yeah, nice to meet both of you, and good luck with your studies, your report and everything. And I hope you enjoy Tucson and the University of Arizona. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=822.0,992.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: can we before? Just a paperwork on before we go? Can we get from you the this is basically just a clearance form sure being able to use the absolutely so I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=993.0,1004.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: put my name, donor's name, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=1005.0,1016.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We're going to be transcribing these interviews for use in potentially a student thesis or, as well as an educational brochure type, some sort of material to that sort to come out of the arboretum project. Sure. And we were wondering if we would, would, if we, once we get the transcript done, would we be able to run that by you for any last edits or change? Absolutely,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=1017.0,1039.999"},{"id":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835/transcript/68343/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN SPEAKER: no problem you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arizona.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2345/collection_resources/130439/file/243835#t=1040.0,1042.0"}]}]}]}